a few falco questions

[monkey and co.]

i have a few questions about falco:

1. when ur fighting a marth and u shine him he goes about as high as ur full jump, so what i do is i shine fjump spike then fast fall (like everyone would) do u have to lcancel this? becuase for me it seems that if u dair when u get to him and then ffall later, ur dair lag ends before u get to the ground leading to a utilt.
1a. if u try to lcancel when ur lag is already gone do u shield? or is it just ignored.

2. when u guys do an instant bair, dair or whatever out of a sh shine (as in u do it so fast that u could shine-spike a 300% fox) do u jump with y, or do u flick the stick up after u shine. the way i'm doing it is sh-shine-y-a (holding down the whole time), i find this really easy to do, but in order to do a bair instead of a dair i need kinda use my palm to hit the cstick which is kinda awkward.

3. how do u do the phantasm edge stall

4. is running of the edge and then phantasming to grab the ledge a good way to edge hog (cuz i find that really fast, however, u can get edgehogged)

5. when ur pillaring is it beneficial to throw in multiple waveshines?

thanks in advance guys

 

[terr13]

I'm no expert on these things, but I'll try to answer.

1. L-cancel everything.

2. Whatever works for you. I use c-stick attack, control stick jump.\

3. Useless. But if you really want to know, alway with c-stick and then side-B would probably be the best. Learn to flame stall first.

4. It works fine. There's multiple ways to edgehog from far away. Either run->waveshine->shienturn->edgehog, walk off like Myko, run off and Side-B onto the ledge, etc.

5. You can put in multiple waveshines if you want. I would think the main benefit of waveshining during a pillar is to get behing them, so they can't grab you. However, you can gget shieldgrabbed out of it.

 

[daddy neptune]

I can somewhat answer #5 but I think that you should mix up pillaring. Multi-waveshines are cool but mix it up so it will jack up the opponents mind.
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong or left anything out.

 

[monkey and co.]

thanks for the quick responses guys

a few other things

for the firestall i either end up below the edge (cuz i'm doing it too slow) or i end up above the ledge and it takes me forever to get to the ledge. as terr13 suggested should i be csticking to let go? is that faster?

another quick thing that i found quite interesting. if u stand in the middle of final destination and a little bit to the right and u firebird off the ground directly to the right, u'll fly off the ledge and seem like u can't make it back, but instead u just grab the edge. i'm sure this is already known and old but are there any uses for this?

and yet another thing: yesh i've been stalking up on questions, and i'm too lazy to spend half an hour searching: when u shine-xair (x being either n,f,u,b,d) (see first post #2), if u shine the person while he is in the air does he go higher up than he would if was on the ground? i find that i can't seem to do it after a perfectly placed uthrow shine.

which leads to yet another question , how do i set up for a shine-xair?????? i want to go up to a friend and set up perfectly, execute it while shouting bankai.

i no it's quite a lot, i really appreciate whoever answers these questions, even if it's just one of them.

thanks

-maco

 

[Repryx]

TO Fire Stall Press back the up-b (Practice the timing)

for SHine-xair Jus SHshine near the opponent and double jump xair. (Best to use uair on lighter opponents, Bair for a Kill, Nair sometimes, Dair to Set them up for another combo)
Truth Be told Its a REALLY good move and when you do the bair Make sure you turn after the double jump.
You can do it when they miss a tech (normally after a SHFFLed dair.)

The Fire bird To edge doesnt REALLY serve a purpose unless your a Lazy Bird tryna Edge hog.
It can Be a Mindgame against an inexperienced opponent. but its NO Competitive purpose....Sorry

 

[monkey and co.]

haha
that's really helpful
anyone else?

 

[Repryx]

sry double post... how do i delete...

Just Delete ALL the Words

 

[Lorcl678]

I think that the Fantasm stall is nothing more but being flashy. Also, the opponent can DI (in this case, left or right)out of the shine - (insert aerial attack here).

 

[Vro]

Phantasm stall, imo, is not effective. You can edgehogged yourself and die. Firebird stall you can actually hold onto the ledge and if you are edgehogged, fly towards the stage.

The palm c-stick business? I say just use the control stick for bair or dair. I started using c-stick just a few weeks ago, the best use of it is just moving forward while bairing, anything else you can really just use the control stick for.

My only tip for firebird stall I can share is sliding the control stick back lightly and letting your the up-b motion of the firebird actually lift you before you execute firebird. You will fall a little below the stage, but your pseudo jump will get you exactly to the edge.

Oh, setting up shine + aerials? If my SHL + Grab failed, I usually just shine and go into aerials. If you're already into pillaring, then it's a no brainer. The question about shining between pillars? Switch it up if you can. It can get complex, but you don't want to become predictable; your opponent will take advantage of it.

The only other thing I can tell you is to watch more vids =p. pc chris, bomb(er)soldier, nox, and more. Pick up what you can and keep asking questions.

 

[monkey and co.]

OK! i got a good one

sometimes when i go in for a fulljump dair lcancel blah blah blah shine, the enemy (the computer in this case T.T cuz i don't have anyone to play with at the moment) still has enough time to jab me before i use the shine. is this because i'm doing the shine too slow (i found out that i was pressing shine too FAST a while ago) or is it because the enemy's percentage is too low, which to me seems like the case. My solution is to go for a shortjump xair shine, cuz u reach the ground faster which usually works. so anyone got anything?

 

[Vro]

If you're approaching your opponent from above, it seems the problem you have is the fastfall. Doing the dair > l-cancel > shine correctly is actually one of the fastest executable commands in the game (under 10 frames maybe?).

If your opponent can hit you, you either:
a) Started dair way too early and couldn't actually l-cancel when hitting the ground
b) failed the l-cancel
c) started the shine too late

 

[monkey and co.]

try fulljump fastfall dair lcancel shine on a 0% lvl 9 fox, for some reason, (i'm 95% positive i'm doing everything rite, including the fastfall) i get jabbed out of it.
if for some crazy reason i'm the one at fault then it would definately be c). :D

here's another one: when u guys do a turn around shl like u run away from the opponent and then turn around mid sh and laser them, do u guys fastfall this? i find that if i fast fall my laser doesn't come out unless i really do the **** real fast, but i find that it's not worth the effort since ur far from the enemy and it wouldn't matter if u fast falled or not as long as u fire the laser. XD so: do u guys fast fall when u guys shl turnaround?

 

[f4lc0_m0nk3y]

i had that same question...but i think u need to fastfall.Without FFing u wouldnt have time to do anything else before they recover

 

[masteraj]

i have the same problem with the fastfall. I try it on half speed in practice mode and it makes it somewhat easier but then when i get to full speed i end up doing a phantasm. I think with a lot of practice u/me will be able to get it eventually. Thats what im doing at least.

 

[Falco&Victory]

Try it at half speed, then 2/3 speed. Once you get it worked perfectly into your muscle-memory it will become easier to do it at normal speed. For example, today I decided to learn to l-cancel, and in less than two hours 3/4 of my SHFFs are now SHFFLs. Another hour and I'll be perfect at it. Just practice, and you'll get it down in no time.

 

[JPOBS]

you probably arent fast falling correctly, to fastfall a dair, you accually have to press down before you press A. with me, i tend to do both simultaneously so i dotn fast fall. But if you are using c-stick, beat me.

as for number 1, you do a shield if the dair animation is done before you land,

 

[Vro]

The turnaround laser doesn't really require fastfall. If you're running, short hopping and lasering the opposite direction, you shouldn't have a lot of time to do things even without fastfall. There's not big advantage toward fastfalling, other than shooting a crouched target.

 

[SCOTU]

Fast falling it speeds it up significantly. Trust me, you can jump one direction, shoot a laser in the other, and fast fall. It works, and is just as fast as a normal shl.

 

[Salaad]

Don't you flip the control stick to do a turn around SHL?

 

[f4lc0_m0nk3y]

just press the direction
you want to face and short hop
at the same time the laser
followed by fastfall
if you dont fastfall you will
probably shoot over their head

 

[SCOTU]

Here's how i do it: press direction, sh (you can also press the direction after SHing, but before you leave the ground), flick control stick the direction you want to shoot, press b, then press down. That's it.

 

[monkey and co.]

got it thanks doods i've really seirously improved these few day :D

here's another one:

i was watching DaShizWiz playing yesterday and i noticed that he did a lot of shl forward shl backward (as in input: dash forward sh laser ff dash backward sh press direction neutral laser ff) and i noticed that this was quite cool. are they any other laser tricks that are flashy, useful, or whatever?

also: is there a point in triple lasering (full jump laser laser laser), or if u take it to the next level quadruple lasering (yes it's possible full jump laser double jump laser laser laser)??

 

[Salaad]

I think if they shine them up too much they shoot the lasers just to get some more damage, and I think it looks cool too. xD The lasers make it harder for the opponent to get on the stage.

 

[clowsui]

eh
first trick not so much...learning how to do that reverse laser is useful though, covers your retreat and opens a lot up
second one...triple, not quad. what if you get hit with an aerial/projectile when you're doing your 2nd-4th lasers and you're at a high percent?

 

[Repryx]

Double Jumping and Lasering is a good way to throw off Your opponent when they Catch the Rythym f Your SHL and begin ti manuever around it.

And try Reverse Lasering in the Air and Dropping thru platforms and laseribg @ your opponent simutaneously

 

[James Sparrow]

For #5, I like to throw in waveshines on people who lightshield to space themselves, or people who roll a lot. If your opponent is really grabby, don't waveshine because you'll get grabbed.

 

[SCOTU]

Full hop tripple lasering just covers a larger vertical spectrum, so if they're really jumpy, or try to approach from above, try FHTLs. Don't use DJQLs unless they're recovering (but even then FHTLs usually cover it). The reason is because you are essentially wasting your double jump.

 

[MyKo]

Walk off edgehog...

I totally would choose that over anything.

Not only does it work nicely with just one hand, it also pisses your opponent off so much if you make it on time.

..I've done it enough to see weird reactions from people.

 

[James Sparrow]

Gotta practice the walk off hog.

 

[monkey and co.]

OOOOOOOO what's dat? lol

ok then:

1. what's a walk off edge hog?? (is it where u pivot at the last second or something so u turn around slide off and grab the ledge?)

2. how effective is spiking a grounded marth (as in he's standing normally), then sh/jump/doublejump spiking him to hell. i find it quite effective! cuz at ~55-75 u just spike sh spike cuz he just goes straight up, rite where u can sh spike. and at like 80-110(?) u can spike jump spike. i find it extremely effective

3. for the marth light shield edge hog, do u tilt ur light shield toward the ledge? away from the ledge? diagonally away??

4. my friend plays a pretty nooby peach, anyone got any tips?? (answer this question only if u have nothing better to do :D cuz i have yet to go look at those guides...)

thanks guys

 

[SCOTU]

1. Yes, it's the pivot edgehog
2. depends on how much they DI.
3. diagonally towards
4. laser camp. (i.e. "the Mathos combo")

 

[monkey and co.]

what's the timing for a lazy hog??

here's some more:

in order to do a chain of shines... like on the ground, repeatedly (shine jump shine jump shine jump shine......) i can never get more than like 3 without ending up in the air. what's like the beat (sry i'm kinda musical XD)? seems to me like u want to get the jump and the shine rite after that jump as close as possible.

and: is it possible to shine a fox/falco coming back with a firefox?? i can't seem to get it since falco's shine is something like 2-3 frames slower than fox's...