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A Demon posts his "Dragon" team.

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
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Location
Dallas GA
Hey guys, it's Da-D-Mon-109. I felt like making up a very random team in my sleep. I decided for it to have a "theme" as well. Please look to see the actual team before you respond with "ICE BEAM PWNS YOU N00B", 'cause only 2 Pokemon on this "Dragon" team are actually weak against Ice. :p I'll explain the one outlier when we come to it. Changes in Red. Questionable in Blue.

Charizard (M) @ Petaya Berry
Timid/Blaze
4hp/252specialattack/252speed
SunnyDay
FlameThrower
SolarBeam
Hidden Power Rock (Need Iv Spread)

A very strange Pokemon for the lead, especially if my team isn't Sunny. But he hits many different Pokemon, incredibly hard, and most usually wouldn't think of a Charizard coming first. Plus, if they do, they'll think it's a BellyDrummer, and try to switch in something that can take Physical hits. Then they'll run away to a special wall or something like that, once the Sun starts shinning and the blasts start flying. Even if they don't, I still feel very confident about my FireDragon. He's a sacrifice, but he still fights strong.

Sceptile (M) @ LifeOrb
Jolly/Overgrow
4hp/252attack/252speed
SwordDance
LeafBlade
Earthquake
RockSlide


My LeafDragon, a standard Physical Sweeper, designed to go after the Water and Rock Types that might fell my FireDragon (hopefully without running face first into a dangerous move). I rather like Sceptile. Always been one of the best starters possible, and quite cool at that. WHY WASN'T ASH'S SCEPTILE HALF AS BAD-A AS ONES LIKE THIS ONE?

Kingdra (F) @ Leftovers
Jolly/SwiftSwim
180hp/252attack/76speed
RainDance
DragonDance
OutRage
WaterFall

I was going to go with just DragonDance, but with an ability like that, an attack boost that goes along with said ability, and such awesome combo attacks, I just had to let my AquaDragon use both dances. Then I thought, "what the heck", and used the Evs I saw on Smogon when I checked the Dragon's total move list, wondering if they had thought of this as well. Turns out I'm losing on a lot of origonality points, but these are still cool sets. My FireDragon may not like this set to much, but most everyone else doesn't mind it.

Porygon-Z @ Salac Berry
Modest/Adaptability
4hp/252specialattack/252speed
NastyPlot
TriBeam
DarkPulse
HiddenPowerFighting (need Iv spread)

This is the outlier within my team. The only one that doesn't LOOK Dragon...ly.... but it certainly has the Power of a Dragon, and it's name reminds me of DragonBallZ, so I'm fine with including this pokemon into my team. My DragonGun. Sweet. I'm not too worried about the Steel and Rock Types, because of the above 3 Pokemon that would love to meet them. But still, my DragonGun will require a little bit of set up, so I'll usually send him out once another Dragon has fallen, or with my HolyDragon (you'll see her in just a little bit).

Rampardos (M) @ Focus Sash
Adamant/MoldBreaker
4hp/252Attack/252speed
RockPolish
StoneEdge
Earthquake
Zen-Headbutt


My RockDragon. He also will require some help getting in. Poor dude. But his strength is incredible. He's devistatingly tough. I rather like him. A Speedboost, and then he goes to town. Not much even really needs to be said, except that he very much loves my HolyDragon,

Dragonite (F) @ YacheBerry
Timid/InnerFocus
252hp/4specialattack/252speed
HealBell
Roost
Thunderwave
DragonPulse

Being that most of my team is mad out of sweepers, and some of them are incredibly fragile my HolyDragon is loved by lots of them. Being able to come in, take some damage, and heal allies, shut down some of the other sweepers (I dislike Guts Pokemon. ;.; ), and just being their just to help the rest of the team. She is so nice. I decided not to fully put it's Stab to waste, but I just kinda like it to help open up one of my less-bulky sweepers, or to protect others.

Comments? Recomendations? Flameless Suggestions?
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
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I don't think it's a good idea to have both Sunny Day and Rain Dance, and only one poké benefiting from each.

:flame:
I thought about that too, but I then I thought "Hey! Now I have 2 ways to stop SandStorm and Hail Teams". The biggest issue here is that RainDance and SunnyDay Teams have a set up on my side already.... so I'm benifiting two types of teams, while helping stop two others... atleast no one else on my side is HURT by Sunnyday and RainDance.
:flame:
 

|RK|

Smash Marketer
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:flame:
I thought about that too, but I then I thought "Hey! Now I have 2 ways to stop SandStorm and Hail Teams". The biggest issue here is that RainDance and SunnyDay Teams have a set up on my side already.... so I'm benifiting two types of teams, while helping stop two others... atleast no one else on my side is HURT by Sunnyday and RainDance.
:flame:
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3082697
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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:flame:
First of all, that is funny as heck.

Second, SolarBeam's power is uneffected by Rain... it just takes longer to charge (if I remember right). Flamethrower does get a power reduction, though.

And 3rd, If I lead with Charizard, and use Kingdra only when she's needed, by that point, the weather should have cleared up (or again, another team will have changed the weather, giving me a reason to send Kingdra in and take away their advantage). If the two different weather dancers are the only real complaints about this team, I feel very confident.

And 4th, the only reason I wouldn't have taken your advice, Captain, is because I was hoping for a Dragon-Themed Team. Metagross doesn't look remotely like a Dragon, and I'm already cutting it close with DragonGun (Porygon-Z). Although I do have a Sandstorm Team that I kinda want to use Metagross for...

Does anyone see anything else wrong with this team, other than the whole "Sunnyday and Raindance" issue? Any specific things I need to watch out for? Overabundance of weaknesses? Attack Type Issue? Possible counters to entire team that aren't handled by current moves?

:flame:
 

The Halloween Captain

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The northeast
I would also replace one of the dragon type moves. It's a great type of attack, but you would probably have more move variety if you replaced one of the dragon attacks with something else (assuming there is a viable alternative.)

If you lose Charizard, you'll have a lot of trouble with Scizor.

A Pokemon with a rock, a fighting, and a fire type attack will be tough (quite a few Infernape, I'd imagine). Even just rock and fighting will give 2/3's of your team problems.

I'm very surprised at the lack of intimidate on this team. Gyrados and Salamence are both useful and dragonish, and I'd expect at least one on just about any dragon team. But there is nothing wrong with lacking them.

Water/ice also knocks out 2/3's of your team. Such pokemon won't like the sunshine and are often hit pretty hard by Sceptile, but they are also benefitted by rain dance. Latias might be a problem, often with both dragon pulse and surf.

Tyranitar, especially DDtar, can cause problems. PorygonZ can't hit it, it has super effective moves on dragonite and Charizard while cancelling out weather, which will most likely slow Kingdra down should it come out after rain-dance. The sandstorm increases it's special defence, and I know it's faster than Rampardos, and if the opponent uses the all-to common spikes/ toxic spikes/ stealth rock, that focus sash won't protect it. That means the only thing that can take one down with little risk, should a dragon dance be used, would be sceptile.

Of course, I don't know how this team works in practice, so I could be totally off. Also, I think Kingdra is a little tougher than I give it credit against Tyranitar.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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I would also replace one of the dragon type moves. It's a great type of attack, but you would probably have more move variety if you replaced one of the dragon attacks with something else (assuming there is a viable alternative.)

If you lose Charizard, you'll have a lot of trouble with Scizor.

A Pokemon with a rock, a fighting, and a fire type attack will be tough (quite a few Infernape, I'd imagine). Even just rock and fighting will give 2/3's of your team problems.

I'm very surprised at the lack of intimidate on this team. Gyrados and Salamence are both useful and dragonish, and I'd expect at least one on just about any dragon team. But there is nothing wrong with lacking them.

Water/ice also knocks out 2/3's of your team. Such pokemon won't like the sunshine and are often hit pretty hard by Sceptile, but they are also benefitted by rain dance. Latias might be a problem, often with both dragon pulse and surf.

Tyranitar, especially DDtar, can cause problems. PorygonZ can't hit it, it has super effective moves on dragonite and Charizard while cancelling out weather, which will most likely slow Kingdra down should it come out after rain-dance. The sandstorm increases it's special defence, and I know it's faster than Rampardos, and if the opponent uses the all-to common spikes/ toxic spikes/ stealth rock, that focus sash won't protect it. That means the only thing that can take one down with little risk, should a dragon dance be used, would be sceptile.

Of course, I don't know how this team works in practice, so I could be totally off. Also, I think Kingdra is a little tougher than I give it credit against Tyranitar.
:flame:
Now THIS is the advice I was looking for.

Hm... I don't think FireDragon requires a Dragon Pulse... maybe Hidden Power Rock, since that lets him actively take out most of what resists Flamethrower and Solarbeam? Hopefully the Ivs won't be bad..

Maybe LeafDragon could get Earthquake and RockSlide, which would help him fight off the Pokemon that defeat him, while possibly letting him hammer some pokemon (noticably flying types) harder than he did before.

I like the way AquaDragon is though. I see no problem with her.

DragonGun is a little harder to use though.. I want to keep using him, but I might have to rely on support from HolyDragon more, if I wanted to drop Substitute for HiddenPowerFighting.

RockDragon is someone who I'd be fine with replacing, assuming anyone knows another candidate for a Dragon-like Ground or Rock Type. I thought about Rhyperior or Aerodactyl or Golem or Aggron or Tyranitar (although the permanent Sand doesn't sound too good) or Flygon or one of the Nidos.... If I had to replace him, I'd probably be using Rhyperior or Aerodactyl though...

About Scizor, could I teach HolyDragon something to help cover the little bug? I kinda like the Stab Dragon attack, but She's mainly the team's healer.... also, isn't Dragonite stronger Physically than Specially? Maybe I should shift the 4 evs, make it Jolly, and teach it DragonClaw... although I kinda like the DragonPulse..

:flame:
 

Circa

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:flame:
RockDragon is someone who I'd be fine with replacing, assuming anyone knows another candidate for a Dragon-like Ground or Rock Type. I thought about Rhyperior or Aerodactyl or Golem or Aggron or Tyranitar (although the permanent Sand doesn't sound too good) or Flygon or one of the Nidos.... If I had to replace him, I'd probably be using Rhyperior or Aerodactyl though...


If you're going to try throwing out an Aerodactyl without setting it as a lead (which would basically wreck the way your team runs right now, so I don't advise that...), try something like this:

Aerodactyl@Liechi Berry
Jolly/Pressure
252 ATK/252 SPE/4 DEF or SDEF
Substitute
Stone Edge/Rock Slide
Earthquake
Fire Fang/Pursuit

This can't really switch into much, but nor can Rampardos so you're not losing much there. Strategy is simple; sub until the berry goes off, and then wreck ****. It takes less set-up than your current RockDragon, so it'll generally be more reliable. SR also becomes an advantage with this set, so yay. Stone Edge or Rock Slide for STAB; just take your pick between power or hax. Last spot either goes for fire fang or pursuit, depending on if you want to kill certain steel-types or kill switchers. I warn you that Bullet Punch Scizor will still like you though. You're sort of screwed on that one. It does **** Nape, though, so that gets rid of one potential issue with your team (unless it's scarfed, of course...but this thing doesn't like scarfed Pokemon as it is, so that's no surprise). Anyway, you can also try an Adamant nature, although I'm not sure if you want the drop in speed.

The advantage to this set is that there's a sub set on Smogon, but it's not this one. Thus, people may not expect it. Actually, I don't know why this isn't on Smogon. It seems like it would work alright...
 

The Halloween Captain

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If I were you, I would keep dragonite as a special attacker, or replace it with one.

Currently I get the impression that physical sweepers outnumber special sweepers two to one, so you probably want a pokemon with high regular defence and high special attack. However, that's just an opinion, and an untested one at that.

I actually see a surprisingly small number of OU dragons (specifically Dragonite and Salamence), but that is probably because there are a lot of rock, steel, and ground type pokemon currently. If you use smogon, it might be to your benefit to make Kingdra special instead of physical. Once again, it is because there currently seems to be a predominance of physical attackers at the moment. However, I can't honestly say that a stronger special focus would help your team, as I actually have yet to test that.
 

|RK|

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:flame:
Second, SolarBeam's power is uneffected by Rain... it just takes longer to charge (if I remember right). Flamethrower does get a power reduction, though.
:flame:
Nope, power is definitely halved. No charge time increase.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
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:flame:
Ah. So it does get just a powerdecrease. I could have sworn that it was that it had another turn of charge required, although the drop is probably easier to do instead of trying to add an extra turn when a Sand-Storm occurs during the charge. But still, by the time that Kingdra is going to go in, the Sun probably won't be out anymore... or, I could just use one of the Dragon attacks instead of trying to specifically change the weather for Kingdra (which is why Kingdra isn't sporting Yawn instead of DragonDance).

LordBowser, ha ha.

Captain, this generation is all about the Mineral-based-Physical attackers, with Sword Dance as an easy to access Tm and with the boosts SandStorm and Stealthrock give to said teams. I personally prefer using the handhelds, although if Smogon is really good, I might give it a shot later. Never really given it a true week to test it, only a few days. I kinda like the way my team is currently set up, with 2 strong Special Attackers and 3 strong Physical attackers. If only DragonDance had a Special Alternative.... DARN THIS GENERATION FOR PRACTICALLY IGNORING SPECIAL ATTACKERS!

And Timssu, I like that set. That is probably a very good replacement, since Rampardos has similar levels of attack power, but far less bulk and natural speed. It really wouldn't have as much issue switching in. But might I ask what you would recommend for Rhyperior? I thought about using it and giving it a Rock-Polish set as well, plus it certainly takes attacks much better.

Thank's for the help so far. I think I'll go ahead and update my LeafDragon and DragonGun's movesets. What Ivs would I have to make sure that DragonGun has to use Hidden Power Fighting?

:flame:
 

The Halloween Captain

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:flame:
Ah. So it does get just a powerdecrease. I could have sworn that it was that it had another turn of charge required, although the drop is probably easier to do instead of trying to add an extra turn when a Sand-Storm occurs during the charge. But still, by the time that Kingdra is going to go in, the Sun probably won't be out anymore... or, I could just use one of the Dragon attacks instead of trying to specifically change the weather for Kingdra (which is why Kingdra isn't sporting Yawn instead of DragonDance).

LordBowser, ha ha.

Captain, this generation is all about the Mineral-based-Physical attackers, with Sword Dance as an easy to access Tm and with the boosts SandStorm and Stealthrock give to said teams. I personally prefer using the handhelds, although if Smogon is really good, I might give it a shot later. Never really given it a true week to test it, only a few days. I kinda like the way my team is currently set up, with 2 strong Special Attackers and 3 strong Physical attackers. If only DragonDance had a Special Alternative.... DARN THIS GENERATION FOR PRACTICALLY IGNORING SPECIAL ATTACKERS!

And Timssu, I like that set. That is probably a very good replacement, since Rampardos has similar levels of attack power, but far less bulk and natural speed. It really wouldn't have as much issue switching in. But might I ask what you would recommend for Rhyperior? I thought about using it and giving it a Rock-Polish set as well, plus it certainly takes attacks much better.

Thank's for the help so far. I think I'll go ahead and update my LeafDragon and DragonGun's movesets. What Ivs would I have to make sure that DragonGun has to use Hidden Power Fighting?

:flame:
I actually understand completely that this generation is all about the physical; in fact, that's the reason I'm suggesting focussing on special in the first place.

Physical pokemon tend to have low special defence, and since there are a lot of them, you might want to use smogon to experiment with special variations of most your pokemon. For example, try special Kingdra. Same pokemon with the same defence stats, but most likely will be able to hit this physical based generation's most popular pokemon harder than a physical version. Especially if you really are going to use both rain dance and dragon dance.

Actually, why are you doing that? Rain dance has the same effect as dragon dance on Kingdra (I believe), except it is a one time use, could potentially benefit your opponent, and doesn't power up your dragon move.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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:flame:
I was agreeing with you about this generation. However, this generation has plenty of physical fighters that can also take Special Attacks with Ease, not to mention that Blissey is like this year's Prom Queen; she's one of the popular kids, being whored out by WAY too many (in my oppinion). I honestly don't see too badly how my team being 3-2 Physical to Special hurts me though. It fells balanced as is.

And I'm doing the double dance because RainDance also has the possiblity of destroying an enemy's weather based team (assuming it isn't rain dance, which I'd have found out quickly after FireDragon was knocked out), it doubles Kingdra's Speed and provides a boost to my Waterfall. It takes 2 DragonDances to get the same speed and powerboost, and if I do a RainDance into DragonDance, my speed will be like 3+, and Waterfall's attack would be atleast 2+(my math is probably wrong. I'm sick. ;.; ). I kinda like that much power and speed.

:flame:
 

The Halloween Captain

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:flame:
I was agreeing with you about this generation. However, this generation has plenty of physical fighters that can also take Special Attacks with Ease, not to mention that Blissey is like this year's Prom Queen; she's one of the popular kids, being whored out by WAY too many (in my oppinion). I honestly don't see too badly how my team being 3-2 Physical to Special hurts me though. It fells balanced as is.

And I'm doing the double dance because RainDance also has the possiblity of destroying an enemy's weather based team (assuming it isn't rain dance, which I'd have found out quickly after FireDragon was knocked out), it doubles Kingdra's Speed and provides a boost to my Waterfall. It takes 2 DragonDances to get the same speed and powerboost, and if I do a RainDance into DragonDance, my speed will be like 3+, and Waterfall's attack would be atleast 2+(my math is probably wrong. I'm sick. ;.; ). I kinda like that much power and speed.

:flame:
You haven't been on Shoddy recently, have you?

I can't actually find a Blissey lately. It kind of dropped away from popularity. Not saying there won't be a Blissey, but there will be almost none because everyone uses physical. It's the same reason Heatproof Bronzong works - because everyone expects a levetating one.

The biggest issue with weather you will have is sandstorm. I personally think it's usage is overrated, as I only see a sandstorm strategy in 1/7 - 1/10 battles, but it's common enough. You'll want a special water user against Hippowdon because he is a really tough physical wall. However, a physical sandstorm user might work better against DD-tar because the sandstorm increases his special defence.

To be honest though, I'm not sure why no one opts for ice beam as a Kingdra move. Just because this moveset can hit everything for normal damage doesn't mean you should ignore attacks that give you more supereffective hits. But that's just my opinion; as I found that I sorely missed Ice Beam whenever I used Kindra against one of the many pokemon that ice beam is effective against.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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You haven't been on Shoddy recently, have you?

I can't actually find a Blissey lately. It kind of dropped away from popularity. Not saying there won't be a Blissey, but there will be almost none because everyone uses physical. It's the same reason Heatproof Bronzong works - because everyone expects a levetating one.

The biggest issue with weather you will have is sandstorm. I personally think it's usage is overrated, as I only see a sandstorm strategy in 1/7 - 1/10 battles, but it's common enough. You'll want a special water user against Hippowdon because he is a really tough physical wall. However, a physical sandstorm user might work better against DD-tar because the sandstorm increases his special defence.

To be honest though, I'm not sure why no one opts for ice beam as a Kingdra move. Just because this moveset can hit everything for normal damage doesn't mean you should ignore attacks that give you more supereffective hits. But that's just my opinion; as I found that I sorely missed Ice Beam whenever I used Kindra against one of the many pokemon that ice beam is effective against.
:flame:
No, I don't really use Smogon that much. I fight people straight up, although once I get my other computer, I might give it another college try. And a Heatproof Bronzong is honestly not even something I've thought about.. but between two Earthquakes and a Flmaethrower, I'm sure I can deal with it.

Again, weather doesn't scare me too much, since I have two ways to stop it. Granted, Roaring and Whirlwinding might piss me off, but I'm sure I can get a few hits in if I need to before then. Hasn't been too much of an issue yet. Tyranitar isn't a worry either. Solarbeam, LeafBlade/Earthquake, Watefall, HiddenPowerFighting, and Earthquake leads me to not care too much about it. Hippowdon might be an issue if he roars a lot, but again, Charizard and Kingdra should be able to do fine. Not like a defensive version of it can really do too much against either.

And if Kingra had SOMETHING to boost it's special attack besides Raindance (which I'm already comboing with DragonDance and Waterfall), I'd be fine using a special Kingdra. And if I did want to use a Special Kingdra, then I'd be fine with letting it pack Ice-Beam. Not to mention that the only things not hit harder by Waterfall and Outrage that Kingdra might face would be Grass and Flying types, handled by Charizard, Sceptile, and the RockDragon (tba, if I can find a replacement for Rampardos, or if I decide to use Timssu's recommended Aerodactyl set).

But you do have me thinking.... maybe I should try to find another Dragon that might let me burn enemies as well, instead of the Rockdragon...

:flame:
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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:flame:
The only thing I updated was DragonGun's Hidden Power Fighting, LeafDragon's Earthquake and RockSlide, and FireDragon's HiddenPower Rock. Anyone see any other good changes that my team could use? And any recommendations for anothr "Dragon" that could burn people, or simply a set for another "Rock Dragon"? If not, I might use Timssu's Aerodactyl, but I hope someone can respond.
:flame:
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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:flame:
I accidentally glitched my DS Game, so I had to restart it. Because of this, I lost my dragon team. I need to get all of my Pokemon again (A friend traded me the ones that I needed with the proper Ivs for Hidden Power when I used to have them). But now, I'm going to have to use my Emerald Version and Leaf Green Version to regain the Pokemon with proper IVs for my team. Exactly what IVS do I need in each stat to be able to get the proper hidden powers on the Pokemon that use them?

Also, I still would like to know if I have any suitable replacements for my Rock Dragon (Rampardos), since he seems like he is canon faughter.

:flame:
 

supermarth64

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HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

HP Rock for Charizard: 31/31/30/31/30/30. Adjust with the attack IVs, should give you 68 or 70 either way.
HP Fighting for PZ: 31/31/30/30/30/30. Same as with Charizard.

Also, for Rock Dragon, try Aerodactyl or Tyranitar. Both fit the theme.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

HP Rock for Charizard: 31/31/30/31/30/30. Adjust with the attack IVs, should give you 68 or 70 either way.
HP Fighting for PZ: 31/31/30/30/30/30. Same as with Charizard.

Also, for Rock Dragon, try Aerodactyl or Tyranitar. Both fit the theme.
:flame:
I woulda done Tyranitar if he didn't have PERMANENT Sandstorm. Should I use the above posted Aerodactyl, or does anyone know another cool set for him?

And I'd have understood the first part if the part you tagged at the end didn't confuse me. What are the exact IVs for a Maximum Power Hidden Power Rock, giving that I want to keep my Charizard's Special Attack and Speed as high as possible?

And what are the exact IVs for a Maximum Power Hidden Power Fighting, given that I want to keep my Porygon-Z's Special Attack and Speed as high as possible?

:flame:
 

WouW

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:flame:
What are the exact IVs for a Maximum Power Hidden Power Rock, giving that I want to keep my Charizard's Special Attack and Speed as high as possible?
:flame:
Like he said, 31/31/30/31/30/30 would give HP Rock with 70 Base Power. The attack IV, however, doesn't matter much because the type won't change: 0 and 1 Attack IV give HP Rock 68, 2 and 3 give HP Rock 70, and this pattern repeats itself.
Optimal Attack IVs therefore would be 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14, 15, 18, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27, 30 or 31.
:flame:
And what are the exact IVs for a Maximum Power Hidden Power Fighting, given that I want to keep my Porygon-Z's Special Attack and Speed as high as possible?
:flame:
Like he posted, 31/31/30/30/30/30 gives HP Fighting with 70 Base Power.
A general rule with IVs is that you can just have 4 less or 4 more IVs in a stat and it won't have any relevance. For example, you could have 31 Attack EVs, but you can also have 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23 or 27 Attack IVs and still have an optimal Hidden Power.
 

NJzFinest

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Thing about a Charizard lead, you say people will be surpised, think it's a drummer, then switch... I think not.
It's... a Charizard lol, why switch?
People will just put rocks up in his face. Azelf will SR and explode. Aero will OHKO it. Metagross will get rocks up and can switch to something to soak your moves, causing you to switch (now your Charizard has 50% health lol). LeadNape, LeadPert (free rocks), LeadTran, and LeadRichi (Trick) will all laugh at it too :(
 
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