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Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

The Goldenbrawler

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So I've noticed people translated what Cloud says:
"Limits are meant to be broken!" - Fully charged limit break.
"Not interested." - Up taunt.
"Your luck's run out!" - Omnislash translation.
"No hard feelings." - Victory 1
"Better luck next time." - Victory 2
"I'm out of your league." - Victory 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9qE5iQrw20 (To show which victory is which)
He also says something when he's KO'd, but I haven't seen a translation for that one. It's Clip 16 specifically. Anybody got anything on that one?
 

JesseMcCloud

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So I've noticed people translated what Cloud says:
"Limits are meant to be broken!" - Fully charged limit break.
"Not interested." - Up taunt.
"Your luck's run out!" - Omnislash translation.
"No hard feelings." - Victory 1
"Better luck next time." - Victory 2
"I'm out of your league." - Victory 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9qE5iQrw20 (To show which victory is which)
He also says something when he's KO'd, but I haven't seen a translation for that one. It's Clip 16 specifically. Anybody got anything on that one?
I feel like he's actually saying, "missed!" in a thick Japanese accent.

Off topic, how do we the community feel about the Shulk matchup? I just got bodied by a real scummy Shulk on 3DS FG. Feeling reeeaaal salty.
 
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Tino

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He actually says something during his screen K.O. voice clip? All I hear is him screaming his lungs out.
 

meleebrawler

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He actually says something during his screen K.O. voice clip? All I hear is him screaming his lungs out.
Every character that isn't Mewtwo or Roy (who only have one because that's how it was in Melee) or don't talk at all have two screams for explosion KOs. For some it's just a different scream, but there are a few who actually say stuff for their second quote.

:4pit:: "I'm finished..." He uses this quote in the same way during Uprising, by the way.
:4darkpit:: "It's not over!" Except when it is.
:4robinm:: "Reckless fool..." The hardest one to understand.
:4robinf:: "I was careless!" ...And the easiest.
:4shulk:: "No good!"
:4ryu:: "What?"
 

-m0

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So I've noticed people translated what Cloud says:
"Limits are meant to be broken!" - Fully charged limit break.
"Not interested." - Up taunt.
"Your luck's run out!" - Omnislash translation.
"No hard feelings." - Victory 1
"Better luck next time." - Victory 2
"I'm out of your league." - Victory 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9qE5iQrw20 (To show which victory is which)
He also says something when he's KO'd, but I haven't seen a translation for that one. It's Clip 16 specifically. Anybody got anything on that one?
That's sooooooo badass, oh my god, I'm fanboying so hard right now!!!1 "Your luck's run out!" OMG OMG OMG!

yeah i've heard that thing he says when he gets ko'd, it's really quiet tho.
 

-m0

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I feel like he's actually saying, "missed!" in a thick Japanese accent.

Off topic, how do we the community feel about the Shulk matchup? I just got bodied by a real scummy Shulk on 3DS FG. Feeling reeeaaal salty.
Sorry for double post, but I fell like this is urelated enough to what i previously said to justify it.

I think Shulk outranges us, which can be a problem. But that and a better recovery I feel are his only real advantages in this matchup. He can't even punish our non-sweetspotting Upb very well, due to both dtilt and dsmash sending us upward, giving us another chance to recover, and more damage for our Limit Break. On the other hand, we can exploit Shulk's poor frame data very well with our extremely powerful punishes. While we have Limit Break, he'll want to be cautious with his use of Smash and Buster, using them only in a highly advantaged state lest we get a LB Cross Slash/Blade Beam on him for tons of damage, or even a Finishing Touch if he's in Smash that will kill him extremely early. We can also keep the pressure on him well with our dash speed, uair, and dtilt. Vision also doesn't play that big of a role in this matchup, as the only move we don't really want to be countered is usmash, the only really powerful move Cloud has that isn't multi-hit (and Finishing Touch, but I'm not really sure how that interacts with counters). However, if the Shulk is running Power Vision, watch out. Some Shulk Power Visioned my jab 1 once, doing something like 20% and killing me at like 35% lmao. With Cloud's stellar landing frame data and lingering hitboxes (especially on fair), we may even be able to roll/spotdodge Shulk's counter as it activates (remember it's unblockable I don't know why but it is lol), especially if he's running Power Vision, which is a bit slower.

:4cloud:

when will we get an Advent Children icon?
 
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Tino

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Oh wait...never mind. I was thinking star K.O. for some weird reason...

I was lost for a second there. lol
 

meleebrawler

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Sorry for double post, but I fell like this is urelated enough to what i previously said to justify it.

I think Shulk outranges us, which can be a problem. But that and a better recovery I feel are his only real advantages in this matchup. He can't even punish our non-sweetspotting Upb very well, due to both dtilt and dsmash sending us upward, giving us another chance to recover, and more damage for our Limit Break. On the other hand, we can exploit Shulk's poor frame data very well with our extremely powerful punishes. While we have Limit Break, he'll want to be cautious with his use of Smash and Buster, using them only in a highly advantaged state lest we get a LB Cross Slash/Blade Beam on him for tons of damage, or even a Finishing Touch if he's in Smash that will kill him extremely early. We can also keep the pressure on him well with our dash speed, uair, and dtilt. Vision also doesn't play that big of a role in this matchup, as the only move we don't really want to be countered is usmash, the only really powerful move Cloud has that isn't multi-hit (and Finishing Touch, but I'm not really sure how that interacts with counters). However, if the Shulk is running Power Vision, watch out. Some Shulk Power Visioned my jab 1 once, doing something like 20% and killing be at like 35% lmao. With Cloud's stellar landing frame data and lingering hitboxes (especially on fair), we may even be able to roll/spotdodge Shulk's counter as it activates (remember it's unblockable I don't know why but it is lol), especially if he's running Power Vision, which is a bit slower.

:4cloud:

when will we get an Advent Children icon?
Shulk can stab Cloud's recovery with down-angled fsmash, which will likely kill him.

When in Buster, Shulk does not have to take risks since he gets dividends from just poking, so I doubt having limit will be a huge deterrent (it's only a little bit of extra damage taken btw unless hyper).

You can't ignore the other arts either. Speed helps him dodge the pressure you mentioned, Shield greatly lessens the risk and impact of Limit attacks and Jump not only gives better recovery but edgeguarding, too
 

Zenithia

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CLOUD DO NOT READ THAT FORTUNE
 
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D

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Guest
I went to the Northern Crater and made my descent...
Now, there is an item called the Save Crystal... never use it. Just suck it up and go through the Crater.
After fighting powerful enemies and made the final descent, I fought Jenova Absolute... who was a complete joke due to Yuffie's Conformer having Slash-All and Cloud using Ultima.
I fought Bizarro Sephiroth and he was tricky, only because I didn't know how to deal damage to him. Once I realized how to defeat him, he became easy as I spammed Yuffie's Slash-All and Cloud's Ultima.
Then... then... then...
I fought Safer Sephiroth. He was tricky since he has many powerful attacks, so I played it safe with Big Guard and White Wind and spammed as many powerful attacks as I could (ultimate weapon attacks, Limit Breaks, Ultima, Bahamut ZERO). The battle ended fittingly with Cloud's Omnislash.
Then I fought Sephiroth one last time and busted out Omnislash and I won.
Overall, I think the game is very fun and I find it to be good, but it hasn't aged very well to be quite honest. There are some bugs, strange design choices, questionable localization that makes the story more confusing, and I was lost at times due to some confusing map layouts. I haven't encountered too many bugs, save for one where if you save anywhere after the path splits in Northern Crater, you won't get your whole team back. So... I'm screwed and I can't fight the WEAPONs (and I did this on my original save...).

Is the game fun? Yes. I enjoyed the gameplay, characters, music, and I did like the Materia system. While the story is confusing, it has some compelling themes of loss, the theme of when someone is gone they aren't, and even a theme of greed and corruption. I was honestly interested in learning about Shinra and all of the terrible things they did to the Planet just so they could have money. It's... oddly relevant towards what's going on today.

Personally though, I love 6 more than 7. I loved 6's gameplay, story, and characters more. While the Materia system is a good and unique system, it can be confusing at times and I like the Esper mechanic more in 6.



CLOUD DO NOT READ THAT FORTUNE
I freaked out a bit when I read that because they foreshadowed that event.
 

-m0

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Shulk can stab Cloud's recovery with down-angled fsmash, which will likely kill him.

When in Buster, Shulk does not have to take risks since he gets dividends from just poking, so I doubt having limit will be a huge deterrent (it's only a little bit of extra damage taken btw unless hyper).

You can't ignore the other arts either. Speed helps him dodge the pressure you mentioned, Shield greatly lessens the risk and impact of Limit attacks and Jump not only gives better recovery but edgeguarding, too
Thanks for enlightening me and the rest of the boards on this. I had a feeling that you'd be the one to point out the flaws in my analysis. good lookin out
 

JesseMcCloud

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I would say that a Shulk who knows how to combo his aerials into combos can give Cloud some serious heartburn.
 

-m0

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I would say that a Shulk who knows how to combo his aerials into combos can give Cloud some serious heartburn.
What aerials does Shulk even have that can combo? I dabble in Shulk, and the only combos from aerials I can think of is nair into like, what, dtilt? and you might be able to get a second uair at low percents. Shulk's a little low in the combos department when not in Buster.
 

Zenithia

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Being a Shulk player, I can tell that he has a lot of tools at his disposal to defeat Cloud. Jump would be amazing for safe and easy gimps, and Shield would just completely nullify Cloud's up-air and Finishing Touch.

And adding on to the downward F-smash comment from before, the move is an already amazing edgeguard tool. If you combine it the Smash monado art, then it would just be impossible for any character to recover from.
 

-m0

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Being a Shulk player, I can tell that he has a lot of tools at his disposal to defeat Cloud. Jump would be amazing for safe and easy gimps, and Shield would just completely nullify Cloud's up-air and Finishing Touch.

And adding on to the downward F-smash comment from before, the move is an already amazing edgeguard tool. If you combine it the Smash monado art, then it would just be impossible for any character to recover from.
Alright, I stand corrected. lol Well then what are Cloud's advantages in this matchup? Huge damage output? Combos? Punishes? lol i'll stick with what I know i guess
 

shinhed-echi

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So how's it been, Cloud boards?
Haven't been around my laptop for a while, and I don't really like to write from my phone. :p

I managed to grab a digital copy of SSFIV at the last minute after struggling with my inner demons, but I figured I was going to need another fighting game in the near future (and SSFIV is one of my faves) because my 2DS thumbpad is about to break.
It game me one of the last fatal "clicks", and now I can spin the whole thing around 360°

Oh, and since I moved, my connection now sucks, so playing online is literally unenjoyable. I guess I could find it enjoyable if I could at least get to FINISH a match (wether win or lose) but I can't do that. :p

On the flip side, I know a LOT of people here, so I'll be able to put my Cloud to good use, and see how well I fare.


-m0 -m0 I think I'm going to pass. If my connection wasn't bad enough as it is, I'm one "click" away from breaking my thumbpad, and online matches pay a bigger toll on my thumbstick. But a light/dark war sounds awesome! (I bet it's finished by now too)



:4ryu:: "What?"
I'm pretty sure it says "FIGHT!" voiced by the original announcer from SF2. :D
 
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JesseMcCloud

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So, I just picked up FFXIV, and I have to say, it's a lot of fun.
I've also had the realization that Xenoblade Chronicles X is essentially a single-player MMO.
 

-m0

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So how's it been, Cloud boards?
Haven't been around my laptop for a while, and I don't really like to write from my phone. :p

I managed to grab a digital copy of SSFIV at the last minute after struggling with my inner demons, but I figured I was going to need another fighting game in the near future (and SSFIV is one of my faves) because my 2DS thumbpad is about to break.
It game me one of the last fatal "clicks", and now I can spin the whole thing around 360°

Oh, and since I moved, my connection now sucks, so playing online is literally unenjoyable. I guess I could find it enjoyable if I could at least get to FINISH a match (wether win or lose) but I can't do that. :p

On the flip side, I know a LOT of people here, so I'll be able to put my Cloud to good use, and see how well I fare.


-m0 -m0 I think I'm going to pass. If my connection wasn't bad enough as it is, I'm one "click" away from breaking my thumbpad, and online matches pay a bigger toll on my thumbstick. But a light/dark war sounds awesome! (I bet it's finished by now too)





I'm pretty sure it says "FIGHT!" voiced by the original announcer from SF2. :D
Yeah dude I feel your pain. The cover of my 3DS circle pad falls off while I play way too often now. My X and Y buttons are also giving out, so sometimes I just won't jump and I'll frikkin die and rage >:[ Connection problems blow as well, especially if you can't even FINISH a match? Jesus.

I have Umeki and KirinBlaze in my first round of pools for Genesis 3.

I've got my work cut out for me.
Go get 'em boi

GLHF lol : P
 

Tino

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So how's it been, Cloud boards?
Haven't been around my laptop for a while, and I don't really like to write from my phone. :p

I managed to grab a digital copy of SSFIV at the last minute after struggling with my inner demons, but I figured I was going to need another fighting game in the near future (and SSFIV is one of my faves) because my 2DS thumbpad is about to break.
It game me one of the last fatal "clicks", and now I can spin the whole thing around 360°

Oh, and since I moved, my connection now sucks, so playing online is literally unenjoyable. I guess I could find it enjoyable if I could at least get to FINISH a match (wether win or lose) but I can't do that. :p
Nothing much. About to play some Xenoblade X since I have like 4 hours left until I leave home for work.

I'm thinking about buying SSFIV myself to keep me busy between now and when Fire Emblem Fates comes out. Although I find myself not using my 3DS much these days except when I play Smash with some friends I work with.
 

The Goldenbrawler

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So how's it been, Cloud boards?
Haven't been around my laptop for a while, and I don't really like to write from my phone. :p
It's rather well, other than my crippling indecisiveness. :p
I feel that :4cloud: :4mewtwo: & :4greninja: are all good choices, rough time deciding who I'll pick for secondary, or maybe main. I don't really know anymore. At the very least I'm slowly leaning towards Mewtwo>Greninja, if that's anything...but knowing me I may change my mind in a few days.
 

Thor

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Shulks need to be patient, so I can see Shulk beating Cloud if he plays smart. If Finishing Touch can get countered, that makes him harder to deal with too
Finishing Touch being countered is mostly irrelevant, at least in terms of dangers to Cloud. Counters in the game are damage-based, not KB-based, so Cloud's Finishing Touch being countered does the same damage/KB as his jab 1 being countered [or maybe less???]. He can counter it [although if he counters pre-emptively, just Finishing Touch the endlag and laugh], but you won't die for having it countered unless you're at a high enough percent where countering any other move would kill anyway.

I'll probably stop in here once in a while. The story of how I chose my mains is hardly short, but I'll spoiler it. The ending point of it is that Cloud is going to be my main for doubles, as I feel he is both much more effective in teams and easier to play than Pikachu or Sheik are, since [at least in my view] he doesn't need to work a lot of the stage to play neutral effectively the way they do, and he has more KO power.

Game comes out and while I had played Pikachu in like one Brawl event, I had started the game way too late to really get into events. So I was hoping Pikachu would be similar and a lot of fun. He was, but so was Captain Falcon, Sheik, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Link. I played those for a while, and at some point settled on Falcon and Sheik on the 3DS, but on the Wii U, results came easiest with Sheik (I had figured Sheik and Falcon were high-tier, overshadowed by Diddy, and Pika was mid... not that I was right, but I wasn't following tiers for the game between patches and wanting to let the meta settle down).

After a few months with the Wii U version out, playing mostly Sheik with a backup Falcon, I wanted to make a change. I figured I shouldn't main Sheik necessarily, since she was starting to be a little less fun (salt from others wasn't really helping, although that was hardly the reason I switched). I figured Pikachu would be mid-high or mid-tier, since he was high-tier in Brawl and from what I saw, basically just lost QAC, which I was (at the time) incompetent at best with. So I figured sliding down the tier list would make the game more interesting/fun and I'd learn more instead of fairing and needling my way through people (notably, I disliked Sonic, but threw needles like crazy to deal with Spin Dash, and it mostly worked). So I switched.

Fast-forward a month and I realized I had moved from one top tier to another [which amused me more than anything]. However, I still found Pikachu tons of fun, and Sheik started being more fun again [maybe it's just that I was starting to get better results with both due to improvement]. Given that I main Link in Melee (<_<), I figured I might as well main clear top tiers in at least one game, so I've played Pikachu/Sheik for most MUs, with the Falcon and Link lingering in no-mans' land as "better than others, but worse than my mains".

This past year, the only person at school I could practice with for a while was a Ganondorf/Pac-Man [I know that's weird] and they were way worse than me. I started playing Fox a little because it made it more interesting, and suddenly I found I really enjoyed the character, but I didn't know what to do with that, given that my two mains already have fantastic MU spreads. I struggled somewhat with Fox players I had faced, but I Fox-ditto'd SlowJoe [a Chicago Fox] and almost won a set 2-1 after losing game 1 pretty handily (I was up all of game 2 and 3, but game 3 he did a fast-fall fair gimp I'd never really seen when I was up almost 100%, both on last stock). After that, I wondered if I would just Fox ditto people, and I learned that our top player actually strongly dislikes fighting Fox (he's a Sheik main), and after beating MN's best Fox in the ditto, I can state Fox is a co-main/backup that I pull out mostly for Fox dittos, friendlies, and as an anti-Sheik character (he offers a different angle from Pikachu and Sheik dittoing, although I work on the MU with all of them). My Fox is definitely weaker at random MUs [Shulk, Bowser Junior, Pit, whatever), but he's catching up.

The problem with all 3 of these is that they're very light and don't kill well (Fox sort of does, the others don't), so I tended to either carry in doubles or be carried hard, with little in the middle. When Cloud came out, I tried him, extremely excited (weren't we all?) and wondered if I'd have a 4th main. However, given his weight and KO power, it occurred to me I should try him in doubles. At a teams event in MN, I teamed with a Wisconsin PR Lucario with the tag Z2G, and I decided after winning our first round 2-1 using Cloud game 3 (game 2 my teammate had a really silly SD) that I should try Cloud against our next opponents, a PR Sonic and PR Kirby. He agreed, and also picked Cloud, who he had been developing for fun and as a potential backup. We proceeded (to our own surprise) to 2-0 them [neither of us had ever beaten the Kirby in a singles set]. The even bigger surprise was when we played the hands-down top team in the state, The Ones (they took 4th at Smash 'n Splash, and the Ganondorf player broke GGA Dan's shield on stream). We beat them 2-1, which I chalk up to some extremely well-timed Finishing Touches. Although we lost WF 3-0 and LF 3-1 to The Ones (they used backups game 3, and after beating us, beat the team in Grands twice to win it all), it cemented for me both that I could use Cloud in doubles more effectively than my other characters, and that I could use Cloud in serious sets and see good results.

As a result, I'm now a Pikachu/Sheik/Fox/Cloud player, with Cloud being my primary teams character.

I was in the metagame thread late last year where I found the ranges FH AC dair -> Finishing Touch works on Sheik [50-120, FH vs DJ depends on percent] as well as tested and confirmed that FH AC dair can't be ducked if you time the dair or a fastfall correctly. I hope I'll see most of you around [and you can also find me in various places on the Smash 4 Pikachu boards and the Melee Link boards].

Random fact: I really really like the Pokémon Wooper. I have legendaries I like and stuff, but for non-legendaries, Wooper is easily top 3 and probably number 1 [and easily top 5 even with legendaries counted].
 

Smooth Criminal

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Thor Thor

I'm moving up to MN sometime in early March, around an hour or so outside of the Twin Cities. I'm part of the MN Smash group but I hardly see anything going on. How is the scene up there?

Smooth Criminal
 

Hanku Hirru

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Key to beating Shulk: butt tons of patience or playing as Ryu.
 
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Thor

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Thor Thor

I'm moving up to MN sometime in early March, around an hour or so outside of the Twin Cities. I'm part of the MN Smash group but I hardly see anything going on. How is the scene up there?

Smooth Criminal
In terms of events? Consistently inconsistent. The monthlies only occur during the school year via the grace of the UMN Smash Club getting them set up, but otherwise it depends on a bunch of factors. D. Disciple hosts stuff at GNG when he can, or used to, but that fell off, but it's getting restarted (?). There were a TON of events when I left for college [at UIUC in IL, which is the second-biggest scene behind Chicago], but then like 2 or 3 people got laid off and a game store decided no more and nearly all the events went away. The scene is sort of recovering, but for a while it was UMN events and house tournaments [although some people have really nice houses or apartments so those go well].

Usually if you post in the group you can get Wi-Fi matches if you like those, and a few people stream, so we have more than just tournaments, but no real dedicated Smashfests besides like one dude who hosts Melee most Fridays in Richfield.

In terms of strength? For Smash 4, our PR is very solid, but not conventional [except when our best Sheik main, who goes to college in Iowa and refused his spot on the PR, comes back]. There's a wide variety of characters in Smash 4 and the top of the PR is quite solid, although their mains make our scene look whack [or free] at first [as I mentioned above, I'm very happy to have split sets with our best team, and it was mostly due to jank more than legitimately outplaying them]. In terms of PM and Melee, we have some solid people who have taken names at various times, but no one who is likely known nationally, but they can hold their own against great players (Chexr beat Strong Bad in PM 3.02, and Slayer is in a GRsmash highlight reel for an extremely unconventional gimp on Leffen, not to mention he 2-0'd Toph at TBH5). I'm not familiar with the 64 scene [I don't have a setup, although I'll occasionally enter small events, beat the new people, and get bodied by the people who play it] but I know it exists and seems to be growing.

EDIT: As for this Shulk stuff... I played a Shulk once with Cloud and kinda walloped them [it was a JV2 where I spiked them out of their up+B with fair to win the game], but I think there was a decent skill gap. Our nair is a lot faster than his and we probably juggle him better, plus he is the one forced to approach [yay down+B and neutral B], but it seems like neither side has fun recovering, with his fsmash being harder to deal with than anything Cloud has. He's faster when he has speed but we're faster when he isn't in speed mode and limit lessens that gap... it might be a losing MU [which to be honest I kinda doubt], but in any case it definitely doesn't strikes me as back-breaking.
 
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Chalice

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So I've noticed people translated what Cloud says:
"Limits are meant to be broken!" - Fully charged limit break.
"Not interested." - Up taunt.
"Your luck's run out!" - Omnislash translation.
"No hard feelings." - Victory 1
"Better luck next time." - Victory 2
"I'm out of your league." - Victory 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9qE5iQrw20 (To show which victory is which)
He also says something when he's KO'd, but I haven't seen a translation for that one. It's Clip 16 specifically. Anybody got anything on that one?
I really don't think that's what his 3rd Victory screen translates to. He clearly says at the end "taosenai" which translates to "can't defeat"

Couple that with "Omae" which means "you" and "ore" for "I"....

Omae/Ore/Taosenai

You/I/Can't defeat

How did "taosenai" ever get translated to "league"?
 

The Goldenbrawler

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I really don't think that's what his 3rd Victory screen translates to. He clearly says at the end "taosenai" which translates to "can't defeat"

Couple that with "Omae" which means "you" and "ore" for "I"....

Omae/Ore/Taosenai

You/I/Can't defeat

How did "taosenai" ever get translated to "league"?
*shrug* I'm not the one who translated it, I hardly know anything about Japanese. That's just what everyone's been saying. Just wanted to compile all that into one post.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I really don't think that's what his 3rd Victory screen translates to. He clearly says at the end "taosenai" which translates to "can't defeat"

Couple that with "Omae" which means "you" and "ore" for "I"....

Omae/Ore/Taosenai

You/I/Can't defeat

How did "taosenai" ever get translated to "league"?
OMG METEOR SEMPAI!
I think it was a loose translation for the sake of being more grammatically correct
 

-m0

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Finishing Touch being countered is mostly irrelevant, at least in terms of dangers to Cloud. Counters in the game are damage-based, not KB-based, so Cloud's Finishing Touch being countered does the same damage/KB as his jab 1 being countered [or maybe less???]. He can counter it [although if he counters pre-emptively, just Finishing Touch the endlag and laugh], but you won't die for having it countered unless you're at a high enough percent where countering any other move would kill anyway.
Yeah that's exactly what I was saying earlier.


I was in the metagame thread late last year where I found the ranges FH AC dair -> Finishing Touch works on Sheik [50-120, FH vs DJ depends on percent] as well as tested and confirmed that FH AC dair can't be ducked if you time the dair or a fastfall correctly. I hope I'll see most of you around [and you can also find me in various places on the Smash 4 Pikachu boards and the Melee Link boards].
Really? That's amazing! Watch all the fanboys come in be like "hey guys, I'm maining Cloud now, I heard he goes even with Sheik" lol

Random fact: I really really like the Pokémon Wooper. I have legendaries I like and stuff, but for non-legendaries, Wooper is easily top 3 and probably number 1 [and easily top 5 even with legendaries counted].
F L Y G O N B O I Z
 

Cutie Gwen

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Finishing Touch being countered is mostly irrelevant, at least in terms of dangers to Cloud. Counters in the game are damage-based, not KB-based, so Cloud's Finishing Touch being countered does the same damage/KB as his jab 1 being countered [or maybe less???]. He can counter it [although if he counters pre-emptively, just Finishing Touch the endlag and laugh], but you won't die for having it countered unless you're at a high enough percent where countering any other move would kill anyway.

I'll probably stop in here once in a while. The story of how I chose my mains is hardly short, but I'll spoiler it. The ending point of it is that Cloud is going to be my main for doubles, as I feel he is both much more effective in teams and easier to play than Pikachu or Sheik are, since [at least in my view] he doesn't need to work a lot of the stage to play neutral effectively the way they do, and he has more KO power.

Game comes out and while I had played Pikachu in like one Brawl event, I had started the game way too late to really get into events. So I was hoping Pikachu would be similar and a lot of fun. He was, but so was Captain Falcon, Sheik, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Link. I played those for a while, and at some point settled on Falcon and Sheik on the 3DS, but on the Wii U, results came easiest with Sheik (I had figured Sheik and Falcon were high-tier, overshadowed by Diddy, and Pika was mid... not that I was right, but I wasn't following tiers for the game between patches and wanting to let the meta settle down).

After a few months with the Wii U version out, playing mostly Sheik with a backup Falcon, I wanted to make a change. I figured I shouldn't main Sheik necessarily, since she was starting to be a little less fun (salt from others wasn't really helping, although that was hardly the reason I switched). I figured Pikachu would be mid-high or mid-tier, since he was high-tier in Brawl and from what I saw, basically just lost QAC, which I was (at the time) incompetent at best with. So I figured sliding down the tier list would make the game more interesting/fun and I'd learn more instead of fairing and needling my way through people (notably, I disliked Sonic, but threw needles like crazy to deal with Spin Dash, and it mostly worked). So I switched.

Fast-forward a month and I realized I had moved from one top tier to another [which amused me more than anything]. However, I still found Pikachu tons of fun, and Sheik started being more fun again [maybe it's just that I was starting to get better results with both due to improvement]. Given that I main Link in Melee (<_<), I figured I might as well main clear top tiers in at least one game, so I've played Pikachu/Sheik for most MUs, with the Falcon and Link lingering in no-mans' land as "better than others, but worse than my mains".

This past year, the only person at school I could practice with for a while was a Ganondorf/Pac-Man [I know that's weird] and they were way worse than me. I started playing Fox a little because it made it more interesting, and suddenly I found I really enjoyed the character, but I didn't know what to do with that, given that my two mains already have fantastic MU spreads. I struggled somewhat with Fox players I had faced, but I Fox-ditto'd SlowJoe [a Chicago Fox] and almost won a set 2-1 after losing game 1 pretty handily (I was up all of game 2 and 3, but game 3 he did a fast-fall fair gimp I'd never really seen when I was up almost 100%, both on last stock). After that, I wondered if I would just Fox ditto people, and I learned that our top player actually strongly dislikes fighting Fox (he's a Sheik main), and after beating MN's best Fox in the ditto, I can state Fox is a co-main/backup that I pull out mostly for Fox dittos, friendlies, and as an anti-Sheik character (he offers a different angle from Pikachu and Sheik dittoing, although I work on the MU with all of them). My Fox is definitely weaker at random MUs [Shulk, Bowser Junior, Pit, whatever), but he's catching up.

The problem with all 3 of these is that they're very light and don't kill well (Fox sort of does, the others don't), so I tended to either carry in doubles or be carried hard, with little in the middle. When Cloud came out, I tried him, extremely excited (weren't we all?) and wondered if I'd have a 4th main. However, given his weight and KO power, it occurred to me I should try him in doubles. At a teams event in MN, I teamed with a Wisconsin PR Lucario with the tag Z2G, and I decided after winning our first round 2-1 using Cloud game 3 (game 2 my teammate had a really silly SD) that I should try Cloud against our next opponents, a PR Sonic and PR Kirby. He agreed, and also picked Cloud, who he had been developing for fun and as a potential backup. We proceeded (to our own surprise) to 2-0 them [neither of us had ever beaten the Kirby in a singles set]. The even bigger surprise was when we played the hands-down top team in the state, The Ones (they took 4th at Smash 'n Splash, and the Ganondorf player broke GGA Dan's shield on stream). We beat them 2-1, which I chalk up to some extremely well-timed Finishing Touches. Although we lost WF 3-0 and LF 3-1 to The Ones (they used backups game 3, and after beating us, beat the team in Grands twice to win it all), it cemented for me both that I could use Cloud in doubles more effectively than my other characters, and that I could use Cloud in serious sets and see good results.

As a result, I'm now a Pikachu/Sheik/Fox/Cloud player, with Cloud being my primary teams character.

I was in the metagame thread late last year where I found the ranges FH AC dair -> Finishing Touch works on Sheik [50-120, FH vs DJ depends on percent] as well as tested and confirmed that FH AC dair can't be ducked if you time the dair or a fastfall correctly. I hope I'll see most of you around [and you can also find me in various places on the Smash 4 Pikachu boards and the Melee Link boards].

Random fact: I really really like the Pokémon Wooper. I have legendaries I like and stuff, but for non-legendaries, Wooper is easily top 3 and probably number 1 [and easily top 5 even with legendaries counted].
I could have sworn some counters also use knockback in their multuipliers...Damn
 

-m0

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Why did we only get 2 songs in smash from FF.................... gief more!
At least we got really good ones. I personally feel great that the Wii U didn't get any more songs than the 3DS version did...(selfish face), and Those Who Fight Further is amazing. I like the songs we have. lol
 

-m0

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Please use the "edit" feature to prevent double posting
In other news, I'm going to my first Smash 4 tournament today :3 I've been to Project M/Melee ones before where I was able to get a Brawl Minus setup for people to try out but never been to a Smash 4 one before. I'm not going to enter this time, ust play friendlies and coach my friend whos also coming, gain some experience, etc. But next time it'll be on!
 
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