Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[The_Bookworm]

Saints Gaming Live 2018 (56 Entrants) (Canada) (C Tier)

1st: Samsora
2nd: Tweek
3rd: Larry Lurr
4th: Mistake
5th: Captain L
5th: Marss
7th: Blacktwins
7th: THUNDER
9th: ANTi
9th: Keitaro
9th: Lightwork
9th: YD


If anyone has the bracket for Super Smash Fight Club 2 that actually works, please let me know.

Its been that way since late 2017 or maybe even earlier.

You guys are kinda exaggerating Villager's state right now. It has been hard, and is the perfect example of how much losing a player can affect a character, but he is far from out yet.

could samsora be a contender for a spot in the top 15-10 for the next pgr? He had a lot of good wins and placements this season

He already is prior to this event. lol
Top 10 though, that is going to be a tricky wall to break.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

For the first time ever, Europeans Smash 4 players will finally have its first official Top 50 EU Rankings! Here are the list of the top 50 European players!

Ladies and gentleman, I'm happy to present a long-term project that was made by @ssbMuk, @TalesSSB, @HedgeonIndigo, @BurningT_, @ElBardo22 and @Gardexyes:

The European Smash 4 Power Rankings!

Congratulations to all players, and thank you to the team for letting me design it! <3 pic.twitter.com/ZCDc6YAXvt

— Cagt (@Cagt3000) June 10, 2018

Top 50 Best European Players:

1. Mr. R
2. Gluttony
3. Ixis
4. cyve
5. S1
6. quiK
7. Purple~H
8. Griffith
9. MagiMagi
10. iStudying
11. Elexiao
12. Ho
13. Supahsemmie
14. Space
15. Light
16. LoNg0uw
17. Marcbri
18. Meru
19. Pefo
20. Sodrek
21. Ramses
22. Badr
23. Pepo
24. Azreal
25. Kibzu
26. Homika
27. Myollnir
28. LuiS
29. Plastic Poptart
30. TheFlow
31. wusi
32. Tomenimo
33. Peli
34. Skarfelt
35. MVL
36. M
37. Afro Smash
38. Tatuman
39. Destany
40. Fire
41. OwlBBs
42. J. Miller
43. Patrino
44. Yiazmat Goth
45. Samuu
46. Adom
47. Schligger
48. Loading...
49. Ogey
50. Klemenz

 

[MERPIS]

9th: Lightwork

You guys are kinda exaggerating Villager's state right now. It has been hard, and is the perfect example of how much losing a player can affect a character, but he is far from out yet.

I dream of the day he is top 20 again

 

[The_Bookworm]

For the first time ever, Europeans Smash 4 players will finally have its first official Top 50 EU Rankings! Here are the list of the top 50 European players!

Ladies and gentleman, I'm happy to present a long-term project that was made by @ssbMuk, @TalesSSB, @HedgeonIndigo, @BurningT_, @ElBardo22 and @Gardexyes:

The European Smash 4 Power Rankings!

Congratulations to all players, and thank you to the team for letting me design it! <3 pic.twitter.com/ZCDc6YAXvt

— Cagt (@Cagt3000) June 10, 2018

Top 50 Best European Players:

1. Mr. R
2. Gluttony
3. Ixis
4. cyve
5. S1
6. quiK
7. Purple~H
8. Griffith
9. MagiMagi
10. iStudying
11. Elexiao
12. Ho
13. Supahsemmie
14. Space
15. Light
16. LoNg0uw
17. Marcbri
18. Meru
19. Pefo
20. Sodrek
21. Ramses
22. Badr
23. Pepo
24. Azreal
25. Kibzu
26. Homika
27. Myollnir
28. LuiS
29. Plastic Poptart
30. TheFlow
31. wusi
32. Tomenimo
33. Peli
34. Skarfelt
35. MVL
36. M
37. Afro Smash
38. Tatuman
39. Destany
40. Fire
41. OwlBBs
42. J. Miller
43. Patrino
44. Yiazmat Goth
45. Samuu
46. Adom
47. Schligger
48. Loading...
49. Ogey
50. Klemenz

This is very cool. I remember many pages ago about talking about Europe deserving a power rankings. Since a Jigglypuff got in the Mexican Rankings, a Ganondorf naturally has to be in the European Rankings. XD

I dream of the day he is top 20 again

Ikr. The bright side is that this could've been worse.

 

[MERPIS]

This is very cool. I remember many pages ago about talking about Europe deserving a power rankings. Since a Jigglypuff got in the Mexican Rankings, a Ganondorf naturally has to be in the European Rankings. XD

Ikr. The bright side is that this could've been worse.

Think he'll rise in the next tier list?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Think he'll rise in the next tier list?

Not really, which is further pushed by other characters below him (specifically Ness, Greninja, and Mega Man) doing better. However, I think he will only drop about 1 to 2 spots only, considering DK's and especially Bowser's dropped results, his inherent strengths, and the efforts of the dedicated mains continuing to main him.

As I said before, this could've been worse, and I am glad it isn't.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I believe samsora deserves top 15 on the PGR, he's one of the most consistent players when it comes to tech skill and neutral.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I believe samsora deserves to be top 15 on the PGR, he's really consistent with his Peach and his Rosa has net him some meaningful victories as well.

There is something called the "edit" option. lol

 

[JustCallMeJon]

MORE SMASH INVITATIONAL INFO: FOCUSING ON COMPETITIVE RULESET
According to Bill Trinen, Smash Invitational Top 8 will rely on a more competitive ruleset such as addition to Double Elimination to ensure the viewers to learn more about the competitive side of Smash

Bill Trinen:

“Our focus really is on how can the game become the focal point of that competitive fun for all sorts of players,” says Bill Trinen, the Nintendo product marketing director who has spearheaded much of the company’s e-sports efforts, “and how can we bring more players into that competitive scene.”

Link:
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/6/6/17433512/nintendo-switch-esports-smash-bros-e3-2018

 

[The_Bookworm]

MORE SMASH INVITATIONAL INFO: FOCUSING ON COMPETITIVE RULESET
According to Bill Trinen, Smash Invitational Top 8 will rely on a more competitive ruleset such as addition to Double Elimination to ensure the viewers to learn more about the competitive side of Smash

Bill Trinen:


Link:
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/6/6/17433512/nintendo-switch-esports-smash-bros-e3-2018

Never thought I live to see the day. The hype is real!

Still hope they have cool casual stuff on the game as always.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Never thought I live to see the day. The hype is real!

Still hope they have cool casual stuff on the game as always.

I predict that the casual stuff will probably go towards the exhibition matches where guest celebrities will fight...I hope...

 

[Frihetsanka]

Someone posted a tier list based on results: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8qafpv/the_ultimate_smash_4_results_based_tier_list_20/

What's interesting is... This isn't too far from my own tier list. Duck Hunt at #20 is also very interesting. Anyway, I've previously argued that results are not the only factor and I stand by that, though it is still interesting.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Someone posted a tier list based on results: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8qafpv/the_ultimate_smash_4_results_based_tier_list_20/

What's interesting is... This isn't too far from my own tier list. Duck Hunt at #20 is also very interesting. Anyway, I've previously argued that results are not the only factor and I stand by that, though it is still interesting.

There is a several oddities to this list based on results, but it is fine... I guess? (I use 7 characters in S tier in my current tier list lol)

Kinda weird to see Bowser Jr. and R.O.B. that low, and Duck Hunt, Luigi, Game & Watch, Wii Fit, and Palutena that high in results.

Something I find interesting is that some of today's tier lists are somewhat similar to this one lol.

 

[MERPIS]

Someone posted a tier list based on results: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8qafpv/the_ultimate_smash_4_results_based_tier_list_20/

What's interesting is... This isn't too far from my own tier list. Duck Hunt at #20 is also very interesting. Anyway, I've previously argued that results are not the only factor and I stand by that, though it is still interesting.

>Lucina STILL lumped in with marth
People people people, wake up from this nightmare

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Someone posted a tier list based on results: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8qafpv/the_ultimate_smash_4_results_based_tier_list_20/

What's interesting is... This isn't too far from my own tier list. Duck Hunt at #20 is also very interesting. Anyway, I've previously argued that results are not the only factor and I stand by that, though it is still interesting.

List seems pretty accurate.

 

[Heracr055]

The Mario Bros are not better than Ryu.
Corrin is a tossup, Marcina is better than him.

 

[Frihetsanka]

>Lucina STILL lumped in with marth

"Yes, The bulk of Lucina results actually come as a co-main to Marth, and the best Marth mains have used Lucina."

I wonder if this means that Marcina's score is inflated a bit? Did the creator discount double-dipping? If not, a Marth main with a Lucina secondary cound inflate the Marcina score (as could a Lucina main with a Marth secondary).

The Mario Bros are not better than Ryu.
Corrin is a tossup, Marcina is better than him.

Mario, Marth, Corrin, and Ryu are all around the same level, I'd say. There are differences, sure, and depending on who you're facing one or the other might be better. As for Marth vs Corrin, I think Corrin has a much better MU spread vs low tiers and mid tiers, but they aren't terribly relevant in general at higher levels. Against top tiers and high tiers it depends a bit on what your bracket looks like: Lots of Clouds and Marios and Foxes? Marth. Lots of Sonics and Rosalinas and Pikachus? Corrin is better. If you look at the overall big picture, Corrin's MU spread looks better, but losing to Fox, Cloud, Diddy, and Sheik hurts. She won't be a top tier, but she's still a good high tier character (and I'm happy people are acknowledging that now, lots of people used to arguet hat she wasn't even top 20).

Mario is kind of hard to estimate. On the one hand, he has an overall pretty good MU spread vs top and high tiers. On the other hand, Sonic. Also, he doesn't win many MUs hard, and he can randomly go even with some mid tiers.

 

[J0eyboi]

"Yes, The bulk of Lucina results actually come as a co-main to Marth, and the best Marth mains have used Lucina."

I wonder if this means that Marcina's score is inflated a bit? Did the creator discount double-dipping? If not, a Marth main with a Lucina secondary cound inflate the Marcina score (as could a Lucina main with a Marth secondary).



Mario, Marth, Corrin, and Ryu are all around the same level, I'd say. There are differences, sure, and depending on who you're facing one or the other might be better. As for Marth vs Corrin, I think Corrin has a much better MU spread vs low tiers and mid tiers, but they aren't terribly relevant in general at higher levels. Against top tiers and high tiers it depends a bit on what your bracket looks like: Lots of Clouds and Marios and Foxes? Marth. Lots of Sonics and Rosalinas and Pikachus? Corrin is better. If you look at the overall big picture, Corrin's MU spread looks better, but losing to Fox, Cloud, Diddy, and Sheik hurts.

Corrin's also generally agreed (based on what I've seen at least) to have a better matchup against Bayo than Marth, whether or not you think either wins.

She won't be a top tier, but she's still a good high tier character (and I'm happy people are acknowledging that now, lots of people used to arguet hat she wasn't even top 20).

Aah, the great Corrin debates of early V3. The phrase "mid tier with a couple top-tier moves" is permanently ingrained in my memory from those.

Anyway, E3 happened, and wavedashing is probably back, which is cool.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Anyway, E3 happened, and wavedashing is probably back, which is cool.

i never liked wavedashing but as long as its not to overpowered im ok with it

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

EVERYONE WINS!!!!!

25 minute Smash 5 video: https://youtu.be/L93H7YC-83o

Playlist of all character trailers from the website: <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaB6ytzNm2IVd0JvnDXbLKTh>

Fun fact: Bayonetta's trailer has the most dislikes while Snake's trailer has the most likes.

 

[MERPIS]

EVERYONE WINS!!!!!

25 minute Smash 5 video: https://youtu.be/L93H7YC-83o

Playlist of all character trailers from the website: <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaB6ytzNm2IVd0JvnDXbLKTh>

Fun fact: Bayonetta's trailer has the most dislikes while Snake's trailer has the most likes.

>Villager's shrunk funk shuffle is shorter
MY SON! WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU

meanwhile meta knight's brawl range is back
lets hope for dedede's bair

 

[The_Bookworm]

Fun fact: Bayonetta's trailer has the most dislikes while Snake's trailer has the most likes.

Not big surprise lol.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Not big surprise lol.

it does look like Bayonetta was given a few nerfs but who knows

 

[The_Bookworm]

it does look like Bayonetta was given a few nerfs but who knows

She does seem like a strong character. A noticeable nerf, among others, is that a lot of the stages seem to have large upper blast zones. Plup had the unfortunate combination of being in a stage with an almost Flat Zone sized upper blast zone, and using the largest character in the game. XD

Although MKLeo used her to defeat ZeRo on game one on grand finals, he barely used any latter combos at all.

Btw, congrats ZeRo on winning the Smash Invitational and not needle camp! XD

The game is still in development, with many balancing to come on the way, and Sakurai pointing out seeing a few bugs as well. The hype is indeed real!

It would be no surprise if this game had the least number of newcomers, with only Daisy and Ridley being any new ones so far, with one of them being a direct clone. It is now given an official name: Echo Fighters, characters who behave similarly with very similar movesets, but slightly different mechanics. So far, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy are the only ones. Does this mean Dr. Mario endured Luigi-fication?

 

[MERPIS]

Yo we got any stream for the invitational

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I wonder if we'll see anymore echo fighters besides the ones shown.

 

[Ordeaux26]

I wonder if we'll see anymore echo fighters besides the ones shown.

i have a few ideas for echo fighters

Funky Kong
Dark Bowser
Dark Meta Knight
Big Boss

also, Genesis 6 has just been revealed it will be the first major smash bros ultimate event check it out here I wonder if Nintendo made the release date December 7th solely for this so because Nintendo has sponsored genesis in the past

https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-6/

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Yo we got any stream for the invitational

The stream was the official nintendo stream on twitch.

Link: https://twitch.tv/nintendo

Also Mr ConCon recorded a lot of off stream matches.

Link: http://www.twitch.tv/mrccgaming

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

The stream was the official nintendo stream on twitch.

Link: https://twitch.tv/nintendo

Also Mr ConCon recorded a lot of off stream matches.

Link: http://www.twitch.tv/mrccgaming

Edit: Some matches are appearing on the nintendo youtube channel, expect the invitational soon.

 

[EMT~]

Here's the invitational, guys:

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

i have a few ideas for echo fighters

Funky Kong
Dark Bowser
Dark Meta Knight
Big Boss

also, Genesis 6 has just been revealed it will be the first major smash bros ultimate event check it out here I wonder if Nintendo made the release date December 7th solely for this so because Nintendo has sponsored genesis in the past

https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-6/

I could see Dixie Kong being a echo fighter for Diddy.

 

[MERPIS]

Here's the invitational, guys:

Looking at the footage, it looks like Villager's bair comes out on friggin frame 4 now its so fast, also THEY DID NOTHING ABOUT HIS GRAB

Wish M2 or MK were played

 

[Aaron1997]

Welp they buffed the Sh** out of Pacman. Faster grab with no "Roy zones", Fruit cycles faster, F-air more Hitstun, More range on Side-B/less end lag, MUCH stronger B-air, Hydrant lasts longer (Though I heard people say that might be nerf)

 

[Ordeaux26]

honestly looking at cloud and the nefs they gave to him he might end up being a mid to low tier character

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Cosmetics might be a thing in Smash ultimate, as link, Mario, and Ike can all switch their attire.

 

[Lord Dio]

honestly looking at cloud and the nefs they gave to him he might end up being a mid to low tier character

limit disappears after fifteen seconds, nair is smaller, dair has a lil more lag, can't fastfall upair grounded ppl and up air is more easily contestable, and lcs is weaker
not really that bad, considering he'll probably thrive off of movement options and bair might have even less landing, you can probably still nairplane people, plsu airdidge reads......eh, he's got most of his tools, he'll likely be fine. top tier, debatable, but still good and easily viable, yeah.
gotta remember this also isn't the final version
also I really hope they remove the utnechable on climhazzard

 

[Ordeaux26]

limit disappears after fifteen seconds, nair is smaller, dair has a lil more lag, can't fastfall upair grounded ppl and up air is more easily contestable, and lcs is weaker
not really that bad, considering he'll probably thrive off of movement options and bair might have even less landing, you can probably still nairplane people, plsu airdidge reads......eh, he's got most of his tools, he'll likely be fine. top tier, debatable, but still good and easily viable, yeah.
gotta remember this also isn't the final version
also I really hope they remove the utnechable on climhazzard

but there is recover with limit keeping gone his already terrible recovery will become nearly useless especially with magnet hands removed almost every character will be able to kill him after getting one grab and throwing him of stage

 

[Lord Dio]

but there is recover with limit keeping gone his already terrible recovery will become nearly useless especially with magnet hands removed almost every character will be able to kill him after getting one grab and throwing him of stage

two jumps, climhazzard, directional airdodges apparently snap ledge, and he might still be able to wall jump
he's far from helpless offstage

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Despite Bayonetta getting nerfed. She still got some bs stuff, such as this 4 stock massacre.

"Bayo sucks now" pic.twitter.com/R9c5xnqggV

— Tylor (@theSirToasty) June 12, 2018

Ness in Smash Ultimate seemed to have some changes.

For example, his infamous headbutt is replaced with peach's up air. Not that strong and great as the previous iteration but it is still pretty good. He has a new animation on PK Fire and PSI Magnet got a buffed as it now has a larger hitbox.

PK Thunder is pretty much the same but I think it was nerfed slightly, less tighter arc and its slightly slower to wind up to PK2. Still barely noticable. Oh yeah PKT can bounce.

His down throw combo is still there but it is harder to do because of its different angle.

B-Throw is still stupid strong as always.

He also seemed to have a new idle animation as well.

Overall, Ness is pretty good and may be viable but who knows...

Also, Fox is heavily nerfed in that game, FeelsBadMan..

 

[Nobie]

They gave like everybody turnaround specials. Mewtwo, Roy, I think maybe even Zelda with her phantom.