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Actually, if Little Mac always downward tilts his f-smash, it will destroy your shield. I would recommend either rolling behind unless he is using up-tilt or down smash. Otherwise, we can just down-throw up-b for an easy KO. Not to mention if Little Mac shields, he has some of the best OoS options.2. Predicting when he'll go for a punish, then shield/dodge and follow with a punish of your own (most of his punish options are unsafe on shield i think).
mac is kind of a cancerous character, so thank god that hes terrible. Honestly, abuse the crap out of him since hes so obnoxious to play against, especially online. I never feel bad doing it lol.so get a stock lead, then platform camp for the rest of the game. . . .
probably would work, but my goal isn't to make everyone hate me XD
Well he IS the unquestionably worst character in the game, so of course he got the Smash 4 Jigglypuff treatment."use to embarrass my bad friends"
Thanks my guy, lmao XD
Except most characters can safely approach him now that his tilts got nerfed harder than Pikachu's grab in Melee.Mac is unfortunately badly designed.
If you attempt to approach or initiate against Mac first, he'll destroy you.
If you camp platforms and force him to approach you, he'll get destroyed.
Basically, you force Mac to approach you. He wants you to approach rather than the other way around.
What's the forward smash shield break gimmick? I've usually elected to shield to avoid the charged smash spot dodge read, but if there's an instant shield break gimmick I might have to change my tactics.Spot dodge forward smash, don't shield it, you'll get shield broken if you give them the chance and they know the gimmick.
Yeah, little macs aerials are usually craptacular, but there are a couple of macs I play with who do Rising Nair, shield cross-up into Falling Nair into spaced downtilt into Forward Smash. It WILL shield break virtually every time they pull it off on shield. I learned to opt for spot dodge if they space it properly to avoid the forward smash hitting my shield. They've caught on and have turned it into a guessing game because we play regularly. Sometimes they don't go for the forward smash right away, they wait for the spot dodge and grab instead at times, which is why I sometimes now roll back, which has also now lead to them also having to guess if they have to dash grab or dash attack, etc. It's 100% cheese, but it becomes reliable cheese if spaced well. Little Mac on stage super dangerous and underrated tbh. I think personally it's better to just jump when fighting little mac than to shield in general. That's really the key to beating the character. Platform camping and a lot of full hops.What's the forward smash shield break gimmick? I've usually elected to shield to avoid the charged smash spot dodge read, but if there's an instant shield break gimmick I might have to change my tactics.
Don't drop shield on first hit, or even the crossup hit. Only drop shield on second hit if they don't cross up, or, if you have a fast enough forward tilt to punish out of shield. I tried (tho it could be just my character) to do a Nair out of shield after second hit and ate a down tilt for it multiple times. You can opt to do a jump after the downtilt on your shield. That of course is just as viable as spot dodge, and depending on the character, obviously a better option for some. I called it a gimmick because it isn't true. it's just a dangerous guessing game that breaks shields.Can you not drop shield if the first hit hands on shield? And if you get hit is it a true combo? I'm trying to feel out how bad this string really is.
For example, could you shield the first three hits and then just jump away after the down tilt?
To be honest, Robins out of shield game is pretty lackluster, so I don't see any particular issue with spot dodging (just don't stale your spot dodges because you don't want to increase the animation duration and lose I frames). Robbin might have the air speed but nothing to viably punish with at the same time. Mac has that advantage in the matchup. He can harass your shield. Spot Dodge to get grabs and get them off stage, and then baiting side b or counter is probably the least effort and commitment option to perform. I'm not a Robbin 'main' but I do dabble with Robin as a FE character, Robbin and Lucina particularly.I gotcha, that gives me a pretty good idea of how it works. I'll have to experience it myself. But it is good to know about those ****ty little gimmicks that characters can ambush you with. But what I was really trying to get to the bottom of is if spot dodging is one of Robin's strongest options. I guess it depends on mac's strength at punishing the jump and other factors. It's funny, I didn't even consider you might not be a Robin player. I feel like for us, a jump could be a better option since we have a little bit better aerial speed and mobility (I presume). Spot dodge is a strong option in this game but I feel like it also leaves you more vulnerable.
There is also another easy gimmick where mac can angle his smashes. If he angles it downward, you can say bye-bye to your shield. Also, if you shield, mac's grabs are really good. At 50%, I KO'ed my friend on the top of shadow moses with down-throw->up-bWhat's the forward smash shield break gimmick? I've usually elected to shield to avoid the charged smash spot dodge read, but if there's an instant shield break gimmick I might have to change my tactics.
Also, a jump is not a better option, because mac can catch you with up-b the second you jump. In short, don't let mac get close enough to where you need to shield.I gotcha, that gives me a pretty good idea of how it works. I'll have to experience it myself. But it is good to know about those ****ty little gimmicks that characters can ambush you with. But what I was really trying to get to the bottom of is if spot dodging is one of Robin's strongest options. I guess it depends on mac's strength at punishing the jump and other factors. It's funny, I didn't even consider you might not be a Robin player. I feel like for us, a jump could be a better option since we have a little bit better aerial speed and mobility (I presume). Spot dodge is a strong option in this game but I feel like it also leaves you more vulnerable.
Little Mac angling down his Smash Attacks doesn't do any more damage to shields than not angling them. All it does is something called Shield Poking, where you hit a part of the character that the shield isn't covering because it's too small to cover it. This ultimately isn't even relevant either, because you can angle your shield as well. In addition, Unless you're Max Rage and Giant, 50% KO off of downthrow up special? I don't believe you remotely. I'd also like to note that you can easily DI to avoid the Up B or just airdodge. That's less of Mac having a good down throw and more of your friend being a casual. Jump is totally a better option for about half the cast. The only reason I don't think it is the best option for Robin in specific is because while it helps you escape because of decent air speed, you don't have fast enough frame data on attacks as Robin to get a hard punish on it without risking attacking into a shield.There is also another easy gimmick where mac can angle his smashes. If he angles it downward, you can say bye-bye to your shield. Also, if you shield, mac's grabs are really good. At 50%, I KO'ed my friend on the top of shadow moses with down-throw->up-b
Also, a jump is not a better option, because mac can catch you with up-b the second you jump. In short, don't let mac get close enough to where you need to shield.
Try it on top of shadow moses. The up-b on the top platform KOs at 50%. I've done it many times to my friend and he has raged so hard. Also, I'm not the best mac player, but that's what I do if someone jumps over me and I usually catch them. In short, if you don't believe me, try it yourself. My friend was playing as Cloud, if that helps. I have to admit I was wrong about the shield break, but poking the shield helps if their shielding and are at high percentages.Little Mac angling down his Smash Attacks doesn't do any more damage to shields than not angling them. All it does is something called Shield Poking, where you hit a part of the character that the shield isn't covering because it's too small to cover it. This ultimately isn't even relevant either, because you can angle your shield as well. In addition, Unless you're Max Rage and Giant, 50% KO off of downthrow up special? I don't believe you remotely. I'd also like to note that you can easily DI to avoid the Up B or just airdodge. That's less of Mac having a good down throw and more of your friend being a casual. Jump is totally a better option for about half the cast. The only reason I don't think it is the best option for Robin in specific is because while it helps you escape because of decent air speed, you don't have fast enough frame data on attacks as Robin to get a hard punish on it without risking attacking into a shield.
Tried it. 2 things are required. 1, Max Rage, and 2, no DI on the last hit. In other words, your opponent would basically have to allow it to kill. It also didn't work starting at 50%, but at 60% and as I included prior to this comment, it can be escaped with a neutral or directional air dodge. I mentioned this before, that I think your friend just doesn't know what he's doing. DI can easily prevent the stock loss. In fact, if it's done close enough to the walls, assuming they aren't destroyed, you can even tech off of the wall to survive. Also, Shadow isn't a legal stage to exactly justify anyone's kill power or lack of it. I don't think the majority of Robins looking for Mac counter play are even playing on that stage.Try it on top of shadow moses. The up-b on the top platform KOs at 50%. I've done it many times to my friend and he has raged so hard. Also, I'm not the best mac player, but that's what I do if someone jumps over me and I usually catch them. In short, if you don't believe me, try it yourself. My friend was playing as Cloud, if that helps.
They didn'tUhm, debate is good, but don't start too big of an argument guys
Well then I think he might've just given up when I hit him. He doesn't know about wall tech, but he air dodges a lot. Either way, it's a scary position to be in. I am also a casual player and I think Shadow is fun so I play it a lot. Anyways, how about back to the Robin Little Mac matchup. I haven't played against Robin many times at all, so my advice is based on other spacing characters with projectiles. In short, I play Little Mac a lot and am willing to give advice based on my playstyle and I usually only play with my friends so I don't have a professional combo game or anything like that. I am actually quite good considering I don't actually play often.Tried it. 2 things are required. 1, Max Rage, and 2, no DI on the last hit. In other words, your opponent would basically have to allow it to kill. It also didn't work starting at 50%, but at 60% and as I included prior to this comment, it can be escaped with a neutral or directional air dodge. I mentioned this before, that I think your friend just doesn't know what he's doing. DI can easily prevent the stock loss. In fact, if it's done close enough to the walls, assuming they aren't destroyed, you can even tech off of the wall to survive. Also, Shadow isn't a legal stage to exactly justify anyone's kill power or lack of it. I don't think the majority of Robins looking for Mac counter play are even playing on that stage.