Kholdstare
Nightmare Weaver
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,441
King Dedede is certainly a set that piques my interest as one of those poor souls you mention that mains the character. This set's intention is to make the character viable, and I think it does succeed in that regard. Dedede has a huge amount of pressure now that he can charge his Jet Hammer to buff himself passively and certain moves changing to help him be less predictable. The Waddle Dee special was a very nice change too, giving Dedede some control over their AI and all the interactions were very logical involving Dee.
The set has some changes I don't much like though, for example the decision to turn into Buff Dedede in the throws is very odd as a throws-only gimmick. Some moves like the new nair where he inflates as an attack and many of the throws are surprisingly wacky. The set as is in Smash 4 just seems a bit more consistent and where the set strays into that wacky area, I feel it was at its weakest. The new hammer moves replacing older ones were a tiny bit random where they popped up but were all good moves.
The changes to moves are a bit mixed at times too. I like most of the changes, but the new fair/bair mechanics seem a little complicated, and I'm not sure I like the new smashes that seem a bit too technical for a character like Dedede. Many of the new more technical aspects added to moves like the up special, smashes, aerials and standards kind of fly in the face of Dedede's simplistic playstyle. At the same time they do make Dedede viable and would appeal to an advanced player who's looking for depth. It'd work best if these moves didn't have these overly fluffy animations where I just want Dedede to slam his hammer in that glorious fsmash and not twirl it in a non satisfying manner. As an example personally I would've just buffed his fsmash, maybe buffing its safety if not the move outright (or both, it'd be justified).
Overall I think the set misses the point a little bit on Dedede's set. It's meant to be a big powerhouse character, if he's going to be made viable it shouldn't change that. However I can't say I dislike the set because of its good changes like the Waddle Dee, the standards are quite good overall (though I miss the Smash 4dtilt) and aerials had a few good moves. I did not like the grab game or smashes though, so it can only get so much credit. Nonetheless, nice work Muno.
The set has some changes I don't much like though, for example the decision to turn into Buff Dedede in the throws is very odd as a throws-only gimmick. Some moves like the new nair where he inflates as an attack and many of the throws are surprisingly wacky. The set as is in Smash 4 just seems a bit more consistent and where the set strays into that wacky area, I feel it was at its weakest. The new hammer moves replacing older ones were a tiny bit random where they popped up but were all good moves.
The changes to moves are a bit mixed at times too. I like most of the changes, but the new fair/bair mechanics seem a little complicated, and I'm not sure I like the new smashes that seem a bit too technical for a character like Dedede. Many of the new more technical aspects added to moves like the up special, smashes, aerials and standards kind of fly in the face of Dedede's simplistic playstyle. At the same time they do make Dedede viable and would appeal to an advanced player who's looking for depth. It'd work best if these moves didn't have these overly fluffy animations where I just want Dedede to slam his hammer in that glorious fsmash and not twirl it in a non satisfying manner. As an example personally I would've just buffed his fsmash, maybe buffing its safety if not the move outright (or both, it'd be justified).
Overall I think the set misses the point a little bit on Dedede's set. It's meant to be a big powerhouse character, if he's going to be made viable it shouldn't change that. However I can't say I dislike the set because of its good changes like the Waddle Dee, the standards are quite good overall (though I miss the Smash 4dtilt) and aerials had a few good moves. I did not like the grab game or smashes though, so it can only get so much credit. Nonetheless, nice work Muno.
King Dedede by Munomario
The first question I have regarding this moveset is the text in Courier New. You say they’re “pre-patch” changes the Lord made to his large son, but I’m not sure if you want us to keep them in mind when we read Dedede. I’m just going to treat them as flavor text right now, so that’s how my perception of the moveset will be.
Expending a midair jump to turn around is a neat idea that gives him more options when playing on the stage with aerials. I don’t know how I feel about such a heavy character stopping as quickly as the Blue Blur as it seems contrary to how momentum works in my mind but it’s a nice feature that compliments the dashing ground attacks. On a related note I don’t have a problem with him preforming any ground attack out of a dash because that’s how a juggernaut-style character should play. My last comment on the stats section is that for reference I wish you would have included the number of midair jumps Dedede has because I couldn’t remember when I started reading and had to look it up. You didn’t need to include the rest of his unchanged stats but when you have a mechanic or trait that builds off one of them it would be helpful to include it just as a reminder.
Waddle Dee Toss is a nice move and exactly how I imagine it should function. I especially like the hammer interaction with a Waddle Dee. Inhale is more of the same with quality of life changes from the King’s Smash moveset, like the cancelling of the move into a weak attack, prolonging the input to inhale more foes, and of course the interaction with the Waddle Dees. I thought the star mechanic was a nice touch. I still like the recovery as I feel its signature to Dedede but I would like it more if the landing explosion created stars for Dedede to inhale. Yes, I know you can squish the Waddle Dees rather morbidly to create them. I also think Leap Shortening is a good technique, it’s quite cool that you’d think to write that in here. I could see how the King has a nice stage counterpicking meta with this in mind.
Jet Hammer alters his stats exactly how I imagined it would. This is a sweet move and works incredibly well with his playstyle and is what I look for in a synergistic move. The damage build up follows along the logic of the move itself too, and altering his non-hammer moves into hammer moves is a great if unexpected function. It makes sense considering Dedede’s motives are usually greed rather than malice, so players will want to act greedily and build up as much charge as they can even when the smart thing to do would be to shield. The next part of the move is where I have a major question. You wrote that special moves don’t use his hammer, so B is mapped to hammer throw. Does this mean every special is now a hammer throw, or just the Down Special? How does Dedede recover with a hammer charge active? If he could throw it then use his recovery as it flies back to him that would be pretty neat. I do like the fact you can toss it to Waddle Dees but I do wonder the personality implications of the King entrusting his mallet to disposable mooks who he regularly crushes, bludgeons, and yeets at the foe.
Moving on to the standards, I wouldn’t consider a jab that does very little knockback as a “get off me” tool as the foe is still right there in your face unless you’re using it to interrupt a combo. Even so, jointed hitboxes typically don’t have priority over disjointed hitboxes that are usually what combos consist of. Then again, I may just be misunderstanding it from my perspective. I do like the follow-up jab, it follows the logic I’d expect from the move. You mentioned perfect pivoting in the forward tilt and I didn’t actually know what that was so kudos for helping me learn new Smash techniques. I like the Jet Down Tilt but the “spider eggs” comment is completely lost on me as I suspect it’s a reference to a moveset I haven’t read. Just for future posterity, these sorts of comments don’t age well and seem awkward to future readers or the uninitiated so try not to include them. The combo hit at the end is a welcoming touch for combo players.
Reading the up tilt’s animation after not having played a Smash game in so long has me confusing what Dedede’s original move animations were... here I was thinking that his original up smash was him twirling the hammer above him. I digress, I suppose it would be helpful if I pulled up Dedede’s moveset and cross-referenced it but I’m at work and don’t have that liberty. Scratch that, the Smash Wiki has gifs of his moveset with frame data. Neat! Turns out I was thinking of the up aerial. As for the dash attack, the reading metaphorically stopped flat on its face until I realized you wrote it that way for humor rather than it actually not doing anything since it’s the same as his Smash 4 dash. (Fun fact, his dash attack qualifies as one of Hemmingway’s Six Word Stories.) I really like the jet dash but you mention it has ending lag then say multiple times to “cancel it” without telling the reader how to cancel the move.
Now for the smash- oh we’re doing grabs next, okay. I like that Dedede can grab Waddle Dees and can also pummel them to get that star even though you don’t mention it. You should mention it, by the way, if a move has synergy with other moves because I’m sure a few readers missed that interaction! Also, his Star Allies form? I never played that, let’s Google that right quick... aaaaaaand he has big bara tiddies, okay. I am enjoying envisioning Swole Dedede doing these moves but describing the forward throw as a “pole vault” and also describing his feet as “adorable” is, uh, not the choice of words I would use, much less envision. (Seriously, adorable? He doesn’t have gamer girl feet, Muno.) The rest of the throws are pretty bread-and-butter, and I don’t have anything negative to say about them although I’m sure some readers will miss his chain grab down throw.
I enjoyed the smash attacks. It turns out your up smash is what I was thinking the original Dedede’s up smash was before I even got to this move. Weird, huh? Angling the forward smash is really clever and is such a seemingly small but helpful detail that helps with the King’s attack flow. I could say the same thing about Dedede’s turning Down Smash, and you finally referenced the star! As for the aerials, starting with neutr- okay apparently forward air goes first these days, we have a forward input that hits up then you can do it again like a jab to hit down... okay. Pretty useful attack though! I don’t quite understand the “changing states” part though. I think you mean you can jump while doing this combo, but if you land on the ground while doing it, will Dedede do a forward tilt? Can he keep this combo up after a freefall state or an air dodge? They are states, after all. I do like having multiple aerials that hit upwards with a character that’s good in the air. That’s just good design.
Ah, multi-hit down aerials. They are, as you say, quite satisfying. Especially when you hear that rapid “thunk” against a shield. About as satisfying as shooting with an automatic suppressed weapon in an FPS. I think that if I played a lot of Dedede I would be jumping up high in the air and drilling the foe below me. So great job on that. Also, who puts Down Aerial after Forward Aerial then before Neutral Aerial??? Argh, Muno, you’re killing my OCD. So Nair. Dedede inflates and attacks with his WHAT? Please, please don’t use “Dedede” “girth” and “sex” in the same paragraph ever again. All jokes aside, A gut attack is exactly what I’d expect out of the King. I hope that if he gets hit during this move his belly jiggles like a water balloon, or an exercise ball. So, onto the back air, I didn’t know Dedede had toes. Same as Kirby. Their feet just sorta look like pizza dough. Maybe they do? I don’t want to search “Kirby’s toes” in any search engine out of primal fear. It’s good that this move has some small kncokacb though. And finally, the Up Air. The killing move for the big balloon boy. With that neat forward aerial, good air game, hammer charges, and all these Dees flying around, I expect to use this a lot to kill my foes as a Dedede player. Nice job putting it on the right input for the right reasons.
In conclusion, this was a nice read to get me through my shift at work today. You did a good job of putting a logical spin on an existing character with very interesting changes that still make sense. You managed to make a character we’re familiar with still interesting read and the synergy between the moves kept me wanting to read to the end. Everything flows well and nothing stood out to me as egregious. It’s all worded simply enough to understand for the most part but didn’t lack detail. Everything seemed well thought out. So good job Muno, I hope the rest of your sets I’m planning on reading are as quality as this one. From the pieces I’ve seen of them, I am confident they’re actually better.
The first question I have regarding this moveset is the text in Courier New. You say they’re “pre-patch” changes the Lord made to his large son, but I’m not sure if you want us to keep them in mind when we read Dedede. I’m just going to treat them as flavor text right now, so that’s how my perception of the moveset will be.
Expending a midair jump to turn around is a neat idea that gives him more options when playing on the stage with aerials. I don’t know how I feel about such a heavy character stopping as quickly as the Blue Blur as it seems contrary to how momentum works in my mind but it’s a nice feature that compliments the dashing ground attacks. On a related note I don’t have a problem with him preforming any ground attack out of a dash because that’s how a juggernaut-style character should play. My last comment on the stats section is that for reference I wish you would have included the number of midair jumps Dedede has because I couldn’t remember when I started reading and had to look it up. You didn’t need to include the rest of his unchanged stats but when you have a mechanic or trait that builds off one of them it would be helpful to include it just as a reminder.
Waddle Dee Toss is a nice move and exactly how I imagine it should function. I especially like the hammer interaction with a Waddle Dee. Inhale is more of the same with quality of life changes from the King’s Smash moveset, like the cancelling of the move into a weak attack, prolonging the input to inhale more foes, and of course the interaction with the Waddle Dees. I thought the star mechanic was a nice touch. I still like the recovery as I feel its signature to Dedede but I would like it more if the landing explosion created stars for Dedede to inhale. Yes, I know you can squish the Waddle Dees rather morbidly to create them. I also think Leap Shortening is a good technique, it’s quite cool that you’d think to write that in here. I could see how the King has a nice stage counterpicking meta with this in mind.
Jet Hammer alters his stats exactly how I imagined it would. This is a sweet move and works incredibly well with his playstyle and is what I look for in a synergistic move. The damage build up follows along the logic of the move itself too, and altering his non-hammer moves into hammer moves is a great if unexpected function. It makes sense considering Dedede’s motives are usually greed rather than malice, so players will want to act greedily and build up as much charge as they can even when the smart thing to do would be to shield. The next part of the move is where I have a major question. You wrote that special moves don’t use his hammer, so B is mapped to hammer throw. Does this mean every special is now a hammer throw, or just the Down Special? How does Dedede recover with a hammer charge active? If he could throw it then use his recovery as it flies back to him that would be pretty neat. I do like the fact you can toss it to Waddle Dees but I do wonder the personality implications of the King entrusting his mallet to disposable mooks who he regularly crushes, bludgeons, and yeets at the foe.
Moving on to the standards, I wouldn’t consider a jab that does very little knockback as a “get off me” tool as the foe is still right there in your face unless you’re using it to interrupt a combo. Even so, jointed hitboxes typically don’t have priority over disjointed hitboxes that are usually what combos consist of. Then again, I may just be misunderstanding it from my perspective. I do like the follow-up jab, it follows the logic I’d expect from the move. You mentioned perfect pivoting in the forward tilt and I didn’t actually know what that was so kudos for helping me learn new Smash techniques. I like the Jet Down Tilt but the “spider eggs” comment is completely lost on me as I suspect it’s a reference to a moveset I haven’t read. Just for future posterity, these sorts of comments don’t age well and seem awkward to future readers or the uninitiated so try not to include them. The combo hit at the end is a welcoming touch for combo players.
Reading the up tilt’s animation after not having played a Smash game in so long has me confusing what Dedede’s original move animations were... here I was thinking that his original up smash was him twirling the hammer above him. I digress, I suppose it would be helpful if I pulled up Dedede’s moveset and cross-referenced it but I’m at work and don’t have that liberty. Scratch that, the Smash Wiki has gifs of his moveset with frame data. Neat! Turns out I was thinking of the up aerial. As for the dash attack, the reading metaphorically stopped flat on its face until I realized you wrote it that way for humor rather than it actually not doing anything since it’s the same as his Smash 4 dash. (Fun fact, his dash attack qualifies as one of Hemmingway’s Six Word Stories.) I really like the jet dash but you mention it has ending lag then say multiple times to “cancel it” without telling the reader how to cancel the move.
Now for the smash- oh we’re doing grabs next, okay. I like that Dedede can grab Waddle Dees and can also pummel them to get that star even though you don’t mention it. You should mention it, by the way, if a move has synergy with other moves because I’m sure a few readers missed that interaction! Also, his Star Allies form? I never played that, let’s Google that right quick... aaaaaaand he has big bara tiddies, okay. I am enjoying envisioning Swole Dedede doing these moves but describing the forward throw as a “pole vault” and also describing his feet as “adorable” is, uh, not the choice of words I would use, much less envision. (Seriously, adorable? He doesn’t have gamer girl feet, Muno.) The rest of the throws are pretty bread-and-butter, and I don’t have anything negative to say about them although I’m sure some readers will miss his chain grab down throw.
I enjoyed the smash attacks. It turns out your up smash is what I was thinking the original Dedede’s up smash was before I even got to this move. Weird, huh? Angling the forward smash is really clever and is such a seemingly small but helpful detail that helps with the King’s attack flow. I could say the same thing about Dedede’s turning Down Smash, and you finally referenced the star! As for the aerials, starting with neutr- okay apparently forward air goes first these days, we have a forward input that hits up then you can do it again like a jab to hit down... okay. Pretty useful attack though! I don’t quite understand the “changing states” part though. I think you mean you can jump while doing this combo, but if you land on the ground while doing it, will Dedede do a forward tilt? Can he keep this combo up after a freefall state or an air dodge? They are states, after all. I do like having multiple aerials that hit upwards with a character that’s good in the air. That’s just good design.
Ah, multi-hit down aerials. They are, as you say, quite satisfying. Especially when you hear that rapid “thunk” against a shield. About as satisfying as shooting with an automatic suppressed weapon in an FPS. I think that if I played a lot of Dedede I would be jumping up high in the air and drilling the foe below me. So great job on that. Also, who puts Down Aerial after Forward Aerial then before Neutral Aerial??? Argh, Muno, you’re killing my OCD. So Nair. Dedede inflates and attacks with his WHAT? Please, please don’t use “Dedede” “girth” and “sex” in the same paragraph ever again. All jokes aside, A gut attack is exactly what I’d expect out of the King. I hope that if he gets hit during this move his belly jiggles like a water balloon, or an exercise ball. So, onto the back air, I didn’t know Dedede had toes. Same as Kirby. Their feet just sorta look like pizza dough. Maybe they do? I don’t want to search “Kirby’s toes” in any search engine out of primal fear. It’s good that this move has some small kncokacb though. And finally, the Up Air. The killing move for the big balloon boy. With that neat forward aerial, good air game, hammer charges, and all these Dees flying around, I expect to use this a lot to kill my foes as a Dedede player. Nice job putting it on the right input for the right reasons.
In conclusion, this was a nice read to get me through my shift at work today. You did a good job of putting a logical spin on an existing character with very interesting changes that still make sense. You managed to make a character we’re familiar with still interesting read and the synergy between the moves kept me wanting to read to the end. Everything flows well and nothing stood out to me as egregious. It’s all worded simply enough to understand for the most part but didn’t lack detail. Everything seemed well thought out. So good job Muno, I hope the rest of your sets I’m planning on reading are as quality as this one. From the pieces I’ve seen of them, I am confident they’re actually better.
I have to say, Hidan was an extremely funny set. The Narutards in the final smash, the opening biography of the character, all of the edginess throughout the set. Sets an awesome tone that made the whole experience enjoyable.
The set itself is honestly quite impressive in its dedication to the character. The set opens talking about his personality and you nailed that, his entire playstyle is a one trick pony centred on his circle, yet it avoids being a shallow or simplistic moveset. Largely, hilariously, he is reliant on a gimmick where he stands in place and fights, but the set is very clever in its use of his scythe's weapon reach and shape. It's been some years since Death and this is one of the few sets to make use of the awesome scythe in that time. He can fight by throwing out his scythe as a projectile or use its size to fight the foe even as he camps on a circle. At the same time, he has the right tools to move around in quick bursts in case he wants to leave the comfort of his circle.
The moves here individually are fairly simple, not that that's bad. I was impressed how you managed to work in the minor anti-shield aspect of his damage and how the foe's own grab, an out of shield option, is the natural counter to Hidans' one trick pony circles/voodoo curse. It's a straightforward sort of rock-paper-scissors of shields and grabs and it's extremely important to structuring the set's playstyle. I was surprised how satisfying moves like nair and fsmash felt despite their simplicity. The melee is real solid here, very focused on the playstyle at all times.
If anything was off in this set, I found the core mechanics at times slightly confusing. Mostly for all the conditions the foe can be under, from voodoo, to taking self damage from Hidan. This would be largely solved if they were just named or explained separately. It's no big detriment though and I don't tend to hold such things against a set's quality. The one real complaint I have is when he throws his scythe away, he can't use his scythe moves and that's comically underpowered, even for a short amount of time. It is a fitting punishment for the character but realistically I think Hidan's player might just avoid using those moves. Anyway, this set was pretty great overall and that final smash really caps things off. For me this isn't even far off your very high quality last contest.
The set itself is honestly quite impressive in its dedication to the character. The set opens talking about his personality and you nailed that, his entire playstyle is a one trick pony centred on his circle, yet it avoids being a shallow or simplistic moveset. Largely, hilariously, he is reliant on a gimmick where he stands in place and fights, but the set is very clever in its use of his scythe's weapon reach and shape. It's been some years since Death and this is one of the few sets to make use of the awesome scythe in that time. He can fight by throwing out his scythe as a projectile or use its size to fight the foe even as he camps on a circle. At the same time, he has the right tools to move around in quick bursts in case he wants to leave the comfort of his circle.
The moves here individually are fairly simple, not that that's bad. I was impressed how you managed to work in the minor anti-shield aspect of his damage and how the foe's own grab, an out of shield option, is the natural counter to Hidans' one trick pony circles/voodoo curse. It's a straightforward sort of rock-paper-scissors of shields and grabs and it's extremely important to structuring the set's playstyle. I was surprised how satisfying moves like nair and fsmash felt despite their simplicity. The melee is real solid here, very focused on the playstyle at all times.
If anything was off in this set, I found the core mechanics at times slightly confusing. Mostly for all the conditions the foe can be under, from voodoo, to taking self damage from Hidan. This would be largely solved if they were just named or explained separately. It's no big detriment though and I don't tend to hold such things against a set's quality. The one real complaint I have is when he throws his scythe away, he can't use his scythe moves and that's comically underpowered, even for a short amount of time. It is a fitting punishment for the character but realistically I think Hidan's player might just avoid using those moves. Anyway, this set was pretty great overall and that final smash really caps things off. For me this isn't even far off your very high quality last contest.
Hidan is a unique fighter in that he directly harms himself in order to gain an advantage over the opponent. How many fighters actually want to get hurt, besides maybe Lucario? This sort of idea results in a paradigm shift in how one plays Smash, which is what I love. It’s not too much of a shift as Hidan still has all the normal functions of a moveset but it’s enough to challenge the player’s style.
I’m not that big of a fan of huge logical disconnects in Smash like drawing the opponent’s blood here when you’re not going to be fighting opponents that have blood many times, especially in MYM. I complained about it in my Washizu comment and I’m going to complain about it here. I completely understand that the concept behind Hidan absolutely requires blood, and from a gameplay perspective it’s completely functional. Honestly logical disconnects are going to happen in Smash and we might as well just ignore them and run with the silliness, but I’m not going to be happy about it. I’d rather function and flavor be perfectly balanced (as all things should be) but if I had to choose one or the other I’d choose function any day.
Good God, this set is kind of gross. Blood everywhere, Hidan impaling himself with a rod, dragging the foe along the stage like he’s a horror movie villain carrying a victim away to the chop house... It oozes your style, Kat. Your voice is ever present in the moveset and your writing is very approachable. You don’t leave much detail out either, and you definitely know how Hidan should play while describing the moves. Along with the very nice headers and reference images, I’d say the set is written well.
The only thing I don’t like is the use of “Narutard” which just isn’t professional at all, is disparaging against people who dislike the R-slur (myself included) and could potentially turn away fans of Naruto who read Hidan out of a love for the series. As a general rule, don’t insult the reader, especially one who might be invested in the set emotionally.
Speaking of, that Final Smash is massive. And totally broken. 45 seconds? Summoning all those Naruto characters to fight for him? I mean, his Side Special is basically ZSS’s Final Smash. It and the Boss Mode remind me of the good old days, in fact the whole moveset feels like a blast from the past. Awesome work there, Kat.
It’s not to say the moveset is outdated, though. You clearly have buffed up on your gamesense since I last read one of your sets because you tie in technical knowledge of the game and a sense of playstyle that just wasn’t present in older sets. It can be difficult to grok sometimes, sure, but so is all Smash jargon when applied to an essay-style moveset. The Neutral Aerial, for instance, is the best example of what I’m talking about.
Last thing I want to mention is Hidan’s playstyle, more specifically his blood circle. I just don’t think it’s viable to pull off. My experience with Smash is that it’s a very mobile game. You’re going to be running around, being tossed off stage, fighting over neutral, and the like. If you stay still, you’re dead. I’ve had way too much trouble even trying to get foes into my Isabelle and Snake traps reliably, I don’t know if I could utilize a blood circle in 60% of the matches.
It can get even more confusing when you factor in curses, shielding, health recovery, the scythe, etc. I just don’t think he’d be very pick-up-and-play-friendly, which is an odd complaint in MYM, I know. Hidan feels very deliberately slow, especially with his status as a heavy. Then again, that’s just my perspective, others may disagree. Nevertheless, I quite like Hidan despite not being familiar with the series, and it was fun to read a Katapultar set again after returning to the thread. I'd say this trumps Nara Shikamaru as my favorite Naruto set (sorry, agi).
I’m not that big of a fan of huge logical disconnects in Smash like drawing the opponent’s blood here when you’re not going to be fighting opponents that have blood many times, especially in MYM. I complained about it in my Washizu comment and I’m going to complain about it here. I completely understand that the concept behind Hidan absolutely requires blood, and from a gameplay perspective it’s completely functional. Honestly logical disconnects are going to happen in Smash and we might as well just ignore them and run with the silliness, but I’m not going to be happy about it. I’d rather function and flavor be perfectly balanced (as all things should be) but if I had to choose one or the other I’d choose function any day.
Good God, this set is kind of gross. Blood everywhere, Hidan impaling himself with a rod, dragging the foe along the stage like he’s a horror movie villain carrying a victim away to the chop house... It oozes your style, Kat. Your voice is ever present in the moveset and your writing is very approachable. You don’t leave much detail out either, and you definitely know how Hidan should play while describing the moves. Along with the very nice headers and reference images, I’d say the set is written well.
The only thing I don’t like is the use of “Narutard” which just isn’t professional at all, is disparaging against people who dislike the R-slur (myself included) and could potentially turn away fans of Naruto who read Hidan out of a love for the series. As a general rule, don’t insult the reader, especially one who might be invested in the set emotionally.
Speaking of, that Final Smash is massive. And totally broken. 45 seconds? Summoning all those Naruto characters to fight for him? I mean, his Side Special is basically ZSS’s Final Smash. It and the Boss Mode remind me of the good old days, in fact the whole moveset feels like a blast from the past. Awesome work there, Kat.
It’s not to say the moveset is outdated, though. You clearly have buffed up on your gamesense since I last read one of your sets because you tie in technical knowledge of the game and a sense of playstyle that just wasn’t present in older sets. It can be difficult to grok sometimes, sure, but so is all Smash jargon when applied to an essay-style moveset. The Neutral Aerial, for instance, is the best example of what I’m talking about.
Last thing I want to mention is Hidan’s playstyle, more specifically his blood circle. I just don’t think it’s viable to pull off. My experience with Smash is that it’s a very mobile game. You’re going to be running around, being tossed off stage, fighting over neutral, and the like. If you stay still, you’re dead. I’ve had way too much trouble even trying to get foes into my Isabelle and Snake traps reliably, I don’t know if I could utilize a blood circle in 60% of the matches.
It can get even more confusing when you factor in curses, shielding, health recovery, the scythe, etc. I just don’t think he’d be very pick-up-and-play-friendly, which is an odd complaint in MYM, I know. Hidan feels very deliberately slow, especially with his status as a heavy. Then again, that’s just my perspective, others may disagree. Nevertheless, I quite like Hidan despite not being familiar with the series, and it was fun to read a Katapultar set again after returning to the thread. I'd say this trumps Nara Shikamaru as my favorite Naruto set (sorry, agi).
Hidan's the first of two blood-bending sets on the opening page, and he does it in a surprisingly different yet still great way from Ulrich. The main star of the set is the blood circle from DSpec, which is a cool concept just on its own of allowing Hidan to share his damage with the foe's. Not only is this great for making up for a lot of Hidan's low damage attacks throughout the set, but is a pretty unique yet consistent way of dealing damage for a fighter. Naturally, most of Hidan's moves revolve around staying within the circle, encompassed with moves like the dash attack, forward throw, and the Reaper's Chain allowing him to pretty safely find a way back to his circle. The balance of the lengthy set up of the circle but fairly generous lingering time after he leaves is pretty good, and the set of course lends itself to a lot of self-damage attacks to inflict on cursed opponents. Given that most of these inflict knockback (including a great concept for recovery that also ended up used for Alolan Golem serendipitously), this makes it more of a thing to stay within the circle, rather than just standing in place and whittling away the foe's health from a distance.
There's also just a general good understanding of gameplay which leads to a lot of synergy in the set that's cool to think about. Chasing down a SSpec with a dashing grab is fun, and coupled with some worthwhile throws that have important effects within the set, as with the aforementioned FThrow. The addition of being able to stab foes with the lingering scythe isn't just a random lucky effect either, giving that the SSpec which can lead into the grab nicely has the lingering hitbox already out, making an effective combo on a correct read. Other situations are well thought out, like the encouragement of landing aerials in Hidan's circle in order to deal damage to the opponent indirectly. This in particular seems pretty powerful given the greater range of aerials compared to grounded moves in terms of getting to the circle.
While I really like the playstyle, I think there is some inherent issues with having a fairly hard to set up 'base' where Hidan wants to remain. Given how much of his set revolves around staying in the circle and taking damage there, its difficult to imagine the gameplay really amping past this 'stay in one place' mentality, which is a shame because Hidan has some cool moves that seem like they would be fun on approaches. I think a change that could be made would be for the circle of blood to remain on the stage until KO'd or something similar, rather than a five second timer, because it would be less restrictive to how Hidan plays. Otherwise, the set takes a cool concept of self-damage and ties it up with a very extravagant and amusing Final Smash, though the set might encourage a campy playstyle that it doesn't necessitate.
4.0 / 5.0
There's also just a general good understanding of gameplay which leads to a lot of synergy in the set that's cool to think about. Chasing down a SSpec with a dashing grab is fun, and coupled with some worthwhile throws that have important effects within the set, as with the aforementioned FThrow. The addition of being able to stab foes with the lingering scythe isn't just a random lucky effect either, giving that the SSpec which can lead into the grab nicely has the lingering hitbox already out, making an effective combo on a correct read. Other situations are well thought out, like the encouragement of landing aerials in Hidan's circle in order to deal damage to the opponent indirectly. This in particular seems pretty powerful given the greater range of aerials compared to grounded moves in terms of getting to the circle.
While I really like the playstyle, I think there is some inherent issues with having a fairly hard to set up 'base' where Hidan wants to remain. Given how much of his set revolves around staying in the circle and taking damage there, its difficult to imagine the gameplay really amping past this 'stay in one place' mentality, which is a shame because Hidan has some cool moves that seem like they would be fun on approaches. I think a change that could be made would be for the circle of blood to remain on the stage until KO'd or something similar, rather than a five second timer, because it would be less restrictive to how Hidan plays. Otherwise, the set takes a cool concept of self-damage and ties it up with a very extravagant and amusing Final Smash, though the set might encourage a campy playstyle that it doesn't necessitate.
4.0 / 5.0
Aromage Rosemary reminded me somewhat of Hidan as a camper, the characterisation in this set isn't as good but the set is decent enough. This set is mostly wind attacks and like Hidan is focused around Rosemary in her Aroma Garden, similarly to Hidan wanting to be inside of his circle. The main differentiation in Rosemary's camping playstyle is that she's happy to heal the opponent so long as in the end, she gets the better chunk of the deficit by self healing or out damaging the foe's healing. It's an interesting dynamic for making healing the foe viable and the balance in this set is overall quite good.
I'm not sure about the characterisation, compared to Hidan anyway it's a bit bland. It does remind me a little of some of those old YuGiOh sets by Roy, and has all the good parts too, incorporating all the assorted material and trying to craft a character out of just a card. There is a good deal of redundancy and repetitiveness when so many attacks are utilizing wind. At the same time it's still very well done, I was again pleasantly surprised by the amount of depth in all the moves later on and it's absolutely a high production value set when it's only for a card. That's the most charming thing about it, considering it was made in tribute to Roy, it's a very respectful wish list set. Another very nice set from you Kat.
I'm not sure about the characterisation, compared to Hidan anyway it's a bit bland. It does remind me a little of some of those old YuGiOh sets by Roy, and has all the good parts too, incorporating all the assorted material and trying to craft a character out of just a card. There is a good deal of redundancy and repetitiveness when so many attacks are utilizing wind. At the same time it's still very well done, I was again pleasantly surprised by the amount of depth in all the moves later on and it's absolutely a high production value set when it's only for a card. That's the most charming thing about it, considering it was made in tribute to Roy, it's a very respectful wish list set. Another very nice set from you Kat.
Do You Believe in Aromagic
Considering that I previewed most of this set before it came out the fact I am only commenting this set when the year is almost over is really pathetic honestly. On the plus side, it looks like you did tighten the set up from my preview to me, though I guess given the time maybe I misremembered some stuff?, and I would say the end result is pretty fun.
Something I like about this set is that while it is healing-based, it is less about big burst heals and surviving forever and more about getting a direct fighting bonus and effects triggered by being healed. This allows Rosemary to not become an obnoxious fighter and have low value yet impactful heals due to simply triggering her cloud creation. I also like how her bonus for being healthier than the foe by 10% isn't JUST healing based: If Rosemary is boxing out the opponent or otherwise doing well offensively it can also trigger it, meaning Rosemary can do good stuff with normal fighting and have her bonus out.
Rosemary's Neutral Special is fairly neat, a quite high damage projectile balanced by its lack of safety and the creation of a healing cloud that can give damage back, although Rosemary has ways to help keep the opponent from just camping in it. It's a pretty interesting balance as it is mostly there to create an advantage state through a percent lead for her mechanic but could give up other advantages and is an interesting balance of such a fast, long range projectile.
Humid Winds is also pretty neat: I'm sure the fact it is such a fast reflector will crinkle some noses, and I myself would keep an eye on it, but given the 10% self-damage and the fact she needs to cancel her buffed state to use it again. Giving Rosemary a buff state with a self-damage to activate it is rather brilliant, creating a trade off between what bonuses Rosemary could have (closer to losing her 10% lead buff vs. the buffs Humid Wind provides) while also granting a possibly larger self-heal (but that can also mess up your clouds, so choosing when is key!) and in general providing some fun buffs plus the actual hitbox has some fun gameplay too. The other two Specials are pretty good but not as much to talk about there, although I will say Down Special has some strange wording: I'm not sure how "Tap to plant the flowers in a different location" works which could use a bit of exposition, and "Once a new set of flowers are sprouted, Rosemary must wait 10 seconds for them to bloom and until then she cannot get any healing out of them." so this occurs on flowers after the first set?
I am pretty fond of Rosemary's direct fighting game. Forward Tilt is fun with variable movement options and Down Tilt feels like exactly what this kind of character wants, Up Tilt tickled me with its safety being reversed from normal (which also encourages Rosemary to be a bit riskier and gives incentive outside of max range) and I thought stuff like Neutral Aerial and Up Aerial in the shorthop game or juggling game and I thought Back Aerial's effect was pretty neat and fitting for Rosemary (you could even use it to block an attack's damage some and get knocked back away into safety or something!). I thought Jab's two-part hit was pretty interestingly thought out, although I do wonder if the energy balls and aroma convergance on it are necessary/great ideas (The energy balls being better than the convergence which seems a bit strong for the jab effect and not well connected to the melee hitbox).
I also thought the smashes were fun, but I will say Up Smash was a move i had some troubles with here: While I know it is only when fully charged, the Bowser-sized hitbox on the full charge seems reeeally big, and I actually had a little trouble parsing the hitbox here. I also question if Rosemary should really be summoning a sun as it doesn't fit her flavor all that well, even if Super Solar Nutrient IS a Yu-Gi-Oh card. I do like how this and Up Tilt played into Rosemary having a weakness to aerial approaches, however, and how the aerials took advantage of this helped give her a deeper playstyle. Forward Smash and Down Smash are both fun: I do wonder how the charge mixup works since the animations don't sound similar but I don't have an issue with the concept here, I think Forward Smash feels like a good "utility smash" that feels fitting to Rosemary (tho I might up the damage to 10%-14%) and both of them do some neat stuff with Rosemary's aromas even as it is just based on drawing them in.
The grab game is the iffiest part of the set I suppose, but not bad: Down Throw is a radically cool effect and idea for the set, if perhaps a bit out there on a simple throw, and I like the risk-reward of how it can both buff Rosemary and make her combo food and vice-versa for the foe. It has a uniqueness to it in how it plays into the playstyle of a character where damage percents are even more meaningful. Up Throw perhaps doesn't give enough benefit for the potential drawback, but I do like how it works with the crescent, it's a slight uneasiness and the other two throws are good but don't jump out to me like the rest of the set does. F-Throw is perhaps a bit worrisome due to the vagueness of "increasing upwards knockback" and I do have some slight worries there could be unintended abuses with the move but it isn't egregious or anything.
Some other nitpicks I happen to have with the set: There's a few things of odd or unclear wording in the set aside from Down Special. Forward Aerial claims the move has a "lack of frontal coverage" but it also has "great reach" and is two horizontal swings? I assume you mean it has poor vertical coverage? Forward Smash I figured "never taking effect on the launched foe" just meant that it won't hit them while they're being launched, but some wording in Down Smash made me unsure if it just now never affected the foe for no good reason: I would still assume the first but you might want to make a note clearing it up?
Overall, Rosemary was an enjoyable set that actually exceeded my preview expectations upon a full read (I was thinking more of a 7 star, albeit a higher 7) and was a joy to read. Cute color on the section headers, by the way!
Considering that I previewed most of this set before it came out the fact I am only commenting this set when the year is almost over is really pathetic honestly. On the plus side, it looks like you did tighten the set up from my preview to me, though I guess given the time maybe I misremembered some stuff?, and I would say the end result is pretty fun.
Something I like about this set is that while it is healing-based, it is less about big burst heals and surviving forever and more about getting a direct fighting bonus and effects triggered by being healed. This allows Rosemary to not become an obnoxious fighter and have low value yet impactful heals due to simply triggering her cloud creation. I also like how her bonus for being healthier than the foe by 10% isn't JUST healing based: If Rosemary is boxing out the opponent or otherwise doing well offensively it can also trigger it, meaning Rosemary can do good stuff with normal fighting and have her bonus out.
Rosemary's Neutral Special is fairly neat, a quite high damage projectile balanced by its lack of safety and the creation of a healing cloud that can give damage back, although Rosemary has ways to help keep the opponent from just camping in it. It's a pretty interesting balance as it is mostly there to create an advantage state through a percent lead for her mechanic but could give up other advantages and is an interesting balance of such a fast, long range projectile.
Humid Winds is also pretty neat: I'm sure the fact it is such a fast reflector will crinkle some noses, and I myself would keep an eye on it, but given the 10% self-damage and the fact she needs to cancel her buffed state to use it again. Giving Rosemary a buff state with a self-damage to activate it is rather brilliant, creating a trade off between what bonuses Rosemary could have (closer to losing her 10% lead buff vs. the buffs Humid Wind provides) while also granting a possibly larger self-heal (but that can also mess up your clouds, so choosing when is key!) and in general providing some fun buffs plus the actual hitbox has some fun gameplay too. The other two Specials are pretty good but not as much to talk about there, although I will say Down Special has some strange wording: I'm not sure how "Tap to plant the flowers in a different location" works which could use a bit of exposition, and "Once a new set of flowers are sprouted, Rosemary must wait 10 seconds for them to bloom and until then she cannot get any healing out of them." so this occurs on flowers after the first set?
I am pretty fond of Rosemary's direct fighting game. Forward Tilt is fun with variable movement options and Down Tilt feels like exactly what this kind of character wants, Up Tilt tickled me with its safety being reversed from normal (which also encourages Rosemary to be a bit riskier and gives incentive outside of max range) and I thought stuff like Neutral Aerial and Up Aerial in the shorthop game or juggling game and I thought Back Aerial's effect was pretty neat and fitting for Rosemary (you could even use it to block an attack's damage some and get knocked back away into safety or something!). I thought Jab's two-part hit was pretty interestingly thought out, although I do wonder if the energy balls and aroma convergance on it are necessary/great ideas (The energy balls being better than the convergence which seems a bit strong for the jab effect and not well connected to the melee hitbox).
I also thought the smashes were fun, but I will say Up Smash was a move i had some troubles with here: While I know it is only when fully charged, the Bowser-sized hitbox on the full charge seems reeeally big, and I actually had a little trouble parsing the hitbox here. I also question if Rosemary should really be summoning a sun as it doesn't fit her flavor all that well, even if Super Solar Nutrient IS a Yu-Gi-Oh card. I do like how this and Up Tilt played into Rosemary having a weakness to aerial approaches, however, and how the aerials took advantage of this helped give her a deeper playstyle. Forward Smash and Down Smash are both fun: I do wonder how the charge mixup works since the animations don't sound similar but I don't have an issue with the concept here, I think Forward Smash feels like a good "utility smash" that feels fitting to Rosemary (tho I might up the damage to 10%-14%) and both of them do some neat stuff with Rosemary's aromas even as it is just based on drawing them in.
The grab game is the iffiest part of the set I suppose, but not bad: Down Throw is a radically cool effect and idea for the set, if perhaps a bit out there on a simple throw, and I like the risk-reward of how it can both buff Rosemary and make her combo food and vice-versa for the foe. It has a uniqueness to it in how it plays into the playstyle of a character where damage percents are even more meaningful. Up Throw perhaps doesn't give enough benefit for the potential drawback, but I do like how it works with the crescent, it's a slight uneasiness and the other two throws are good but don't jump out to me like the rest of the set does. F-Throw is perhaps a bit worrisome due to the vagueness of "increasing upwards knockback" and I do have some slight worries there could be unintended abuses with the move but it isn't egregious or anything.
Some other nitpicks I happen to have with the set: There's a few things of odd or unclear wording in the set aside from Down Special. Forward Aerial claims the move has a "lack of frontal coverage" but it also has "great reach" and is two horizontal swings? I assume you mean it has poor vertical coverage? Forward Smash I figured "never taking effect on the launched foe" just meant that it won't hit them while they're being launched, but some wording in Down Smash made me unsure if it just now never affected the foe for no good reason: I would still assume the first but you might want to make a note clearing it up?
Overall, Rosemary was an enjoyable set that actually exceeded my preview expectations upon a full read (I was thinking more of a 7 star, albeit a higher 7) and was a joy to read. Cute color on the section headers, by the way!
I don't know how much of Aromage Rosemary’s backstory and personality you came up with yourself because all I can find on her is just the card you have displayed at the beginning of the moveset and some fanart. I assume a deck using her gave you some inspiration too, but I have a high regard for people who can squeeze a well-crafted moveset out of such limited source material. As a side note, the moveset's introduction ends with "Will this be enough to get her through all the HMAs of MYM20?" I can only assume you wrote this in MYM20 and forgot to change that line.
The first paragraph of her special mechanic kind of seems like a "win-more" mechanic to me. I mean obviously everyone wants to be at a lower percentage than their opponent, save for the weirdo characters out there. If Rosemary's player is healthier than their opponent, you (the moveset creator) don't need to mechanically reward the player. The idea of not getting hit is a fundamental aspect of fighting games that will wire itself into every player. If you're lower than the opponent, you're already ahead and getting a bonus is just even more crippling. Conversely, if you're already more damaged than the opponent, you're already behind and can't use the mechanic anyway.
I don't like some of the ways the aroma cloud behaves. The part where they linger for a set amount of time in place then just float straight instead of simply dispersing doesn't follow the logic of how I would expect the aroma to work. I don't understand why an aroma cloud cancels momentum- does the scent of flowers stop Bowser as he flies through it at 70 miles per hour? I do like that the cloud can cancel Rosemary's attacks like a sort of smelling salt. This is a pretty unique tool for a combo character to have!
I originally thought this moveset was written by FrozenRoy when I came upon it while skimming down the page, and for good reason. This is a very well-done tribute to Froy and written in a style heavily reminiscent of one of his movesets: heavy detail, a deep move interaction web, and moves with branching that make them seem like multiple moves in one. If that's what you were aiming for, well done! I think your own style suits you well but there's definitely traits from this you can integrate into your own writing. The set has an impressive eye for detail and has many technical layers that you go out of your way to point out. This sort of writing style isn't a light read by any means but will definitely appeal to veterans who have both a long attention stamina and an eye for servicing the Smash game engine, such as the two people who commented it before I did.
On that note I would say that if you had done this style for a character that's more in line with your usual character choices (obscure anime characters, often girls) I don't think many people would dedicate the time and effort to giving Rosemary a careful read. Thankfully, the ideas behind her and her source material are interesting enough to draw those readers in. The moveset is very informative and factual but doesn't have the voice you display so prominently in your other movesets. Rosemary's moveset is so dense, unemotional, and wordy for an eighteen-year-old girl who is supposedly "known for her optimism and motherliness" that it's almost oppressively ironic. None of her personality, or yours for that matter, expresses itself through your prose. It's why I mistook it for someone else at first, even at a glance. You have a very unique flavor that distinguishes your movesets from everyone else.
Several moves you included met my expectations going into the moveset, especially with their properties. Aromas being affected by windboxes is one of them. I suppose this makes up for the strange behavior of the aromas in the first place, so I'm going to assume you intended for windboxes to affect the aromas as they were floating upwards after their four seconds were up, and there's a way to utilize that specific maneuver that I'm just not catching on to. Aroma Garden behaves more or less like I think it should, but its brevity compared to the rest of the moveset makes it seem like I'm missing something. Also maybe it's just because of you posting it right after Hidan, but Aroma Garden feels like it was inspired by the Jashin blood circle... or maybe vice-versa? Rosemary doesn't feel like she needs to be in it as much as Hidan needs to be in his circle, but the stationary playstyle seems like a running thread with your movesets, Kat.
Last nitpick: her grab game. Your use of "astral" and "aroma" as vine descriptors make me think these aren't physical plants but more of a psychic, magical manifestation in the form of vines. Like a Hermit Purple or Holy's Stand situation. I just had to sneak in a Jojo's reference. If this is the case, wouldn't it make more sense both considering her Aroma Garden and the text on the card itself to make them actual plants she grows? If they are actual vines and I'm just rambling, ignore this. Anyway, you've done an impressive achievement stepping up your game and improving Kat, and I feel like this set is actual growth for you. You're beyond the point of improving in huge increments, now it's all about applying your skills to an idea and character people will go wild for. Great job!
The first paragraph of her special mechanic kind of seems like a "win-more" mechanic to me. I mean obviously everyone wants to be at a lower percentage than their opponent, save for the weirdo characters out there. If Rosemary's player is healthier than their opponent, you (the moveset creator) don't need to mechanically reward the player. The idea of not getting hit is a fundamental aspect of fighting games that will wire itself into every player. If you're lower than the opponent, you're already ahead and getting a bonus is just even more crippling. Conversely, if you're already more damaged than the opponent, you're already behind and can't use the mechanic anyway.
I don't like some of the ways the aroma cloud behaves. The part where they linger for a set amount of time in place then just float straight instead of simply dispersing doesn't follow the logic of how I would expect the aroma to work. I don't understand why an aroma cloud cancels momentum- does the scent of flowers stop Bowser as he flies through it at 70 miles per hour? I do like that the cloud can cancel Rosemary's attacks like a sort of smelling salt. This is a pretty unique tool for a combo character to have!
I originally thought this moveset was written by FrozenRoy when I came upon it while skimming down the page, and for good reason. This is a very well-done tribute to Froy and written in a style heavily reminiscent of one of his movesets: heavy detail, a deep move interaction web, and moves with branching that make them seem like multiple moves in one. If that's what you were aiming for, well done! I think your own style suits you well but there's definitely traits from this you can integrate into your own writing. The set has an impressive eye for detail and has many technical layers that you go out of your way to point out. This sort of writing style isn't a light read by any means but will definitely appeal to veterans who have both a long attention stamina and an eye for servicing the Smash game engine, such as the two people who commented it before I did.
On that note I would say that if you had done this style for a character that's more in line with your usual character choices (obscure anime characters, often girls) I don't think many people would dedicate the time and effort to giving Rosemary a careful read. Thankfully, the ideas behind her and her source material are interesting enough to draw those readers in. The moveset is very informative and factual but doesn't have the voice you display so prominently in your other movesets. Rosemary's moveset is so dense, unemotional, and wordy for an eighteen-year-old girl who is supposedly "known for her optimism and motherliness" that it's almost oppressively ironic. None of her personality, or yours for that matter, expresses itself through your prose. It's why I mistook it for someone else at first, even at a glance. You have a very unique flavor that distinguishes your movesets from everyone else.
Several moves you included met my expectations going into the moveset, especially with their properties. Aromas being affected by windboxes is one of them. I suppose this makes up for the strange behavior of the aromas in the first place, so I'm going to assume you intended for windboxes to affect the aromas as they were floating upwards after their four seconds were up, and there's a way to utilize that specific maneuver that I'm just not catching on to. Aroma Garden behaves more or less like I think it should, but its brevity compared to the rest of the moveset makes it seem like I'm missing something. Also maybe it's just because of you posting it right after Hidan, but Aroma Garden feels like it was inspired by the Jashin blood circle... or maybe vice-versa? Rosemary doesn't feel like she needs to be in it as much as Hidan needs to be in his circle, but the stationary playstyle seems like a running thread with your movesets, Kat.
Last nitpick: her grab game. Your use of "astral" and "aroma" as vine descriptors make me think these aren't physical plants but more of a psychic, magical manifestation in the form of vines. Like a Hermit Purple or Holy's Stand situation. I just had to sneak in a Jojo's reference. If this is the case, wouldn't it make more sense both considering her Aroma Garden and the text on the card itself to make them actual plants she grows? If they are actual vines and I'm just rambling, ignore this. Anyway, you've done an impressive achievement stepping up your game and improving Kat, and I feel like this set is actual growth for you. You're beyond the point of improving in huge increments, now it's all about applying your skills to an idea and character people will go wild for. Great job!
Aeronautic Rosemary
Rosemary is a strange set. I can tell entirely what its going for, and it does what its going for VERY WELL, but the actual problem is that I'm not sure if what it does is good. There's a very workable playstyle in the set, but a lot of issues come from how much Rosemary heals the opponent via very simple actions. There's a throw that exists entirely to heal opponents, I have no idea why that exists. Considering Rosemary's main play is to keep her damage lower than the opponent, this all seems to completely counteract that.
I feel like having the main gimmick of a set's downside being caused by not the other player playing well, but by some odd tacked on gimmick, is a general failure in the balance department, like with Little Mac. It feels like overtuning a character with a pretty basic playstyle. I'd say the main way to fix this would be to remove some of the healing, or at least tone it down a bit. It isn't even like having the healing as a downside somewhere in the set is a bad thing, I just think it does it too much.
Other than that, the set is perfectly fine, the character comes off well and the attempts at trying to translate Yu-Gi-Oh card effects is at least Admirable. I just think there's Issues that need sorting out before i can call it really good.
Rosemary is a strange set. I can tell entirely what its going for, and it does what its going for VERY WELL, but the actual problem is that I'm not sure if what it does is good. There's a very workable playstyle in the set, but a lot of issues come from how much Rosemary heals the opponent via very simple actions. There's a throw that exists entirely to heal opponents, I have no idea why that exists. Considering Rosemary's main play is to keep her damage lower than the opponent, this all seems to completely counteract that.
I feel like having the main gimmick of a set's downside being caused by not the other player playing well, but by some odd tacked on gimmick, is a general failure in the balance department, like with Little Mac. It feels like overtuning a character with a pretty basic playstyle. I'd say the main way to fix this would be to remove some of the healing, or at least tone it down a bit. It isn't even like having the healing as a downside somewhere in the set is a bad thing, I just think it does it too much.
Other than that, the set is perfectly fine, the character comes off well and the attempts at trying to translate Yu-Gi-Oh card effects is at least Admirable. I just think there's Issues that need sorting out before i can call it really good.
So lastly we have Golisopod of the first day Kat sets, sorry it took me this long to get to all these movesets. I had a blast reading all three of them, honestly I was surprised how much I ended up liking Golisopod despite the 5k limit. It's one of the more impressive attempts at the challenge I've seen because of the ways it utilizes the Shield Push Cancel, the stale move queue and just implies depth while cleverly avoiding having to explain already existing mechanics. And it's very intelligent about knowing when to focus on what in this difficult challenge environment. At the same time it's a fresh take on all these mechanics, and more than that, it's very well characterised. I went into this set not having any sense of Golisopod's character and I come away knowing it and Guzma's relationship very well. This is one of the best Pokemon Trainer-ish sets I've read and it's rare to see the trainer's personality so strongly in the Pokemon's moveset. Funny that it's the opposite to your no Pokemon Ghetsis moveset's approach. Guzma's not a part of the set but his presence is always strong.
The set's mechanics revolve around the stale move queue in an original way. This is the perfect concept for a 5k set as just trying to get a move off the stale move queue is a simple, cool playstyle that piggy backs off of existing mechanics. Maybe you could add some sort of visual for this though? May as well when it's this central, just something on the HUD or some way of knowing FI is available would be a solid improvement. The set manages to break down Golisopod to basics, he's largely a brawler who just wants to break the foe's shield and work around a focus on "Shield Push Cancel," an obscure but interesting mechanic you dug up from the Art of... videos. It's a cool idea to focus on as it hones in on Golisopod's aggression and cowardice. He basically only wants to attack when he can be assured victory, i.e. break shield or when he can land First Impression. I have not seen before in this exact way, it's a bit like Valerie last contest.
There's still some ideas that aren't fully explored, naturally given it's 5k. The water/soak status effect isn't all that relevant, though it is brought up a few times in the set. The rocks made on the up smash are a little strange on that input when they seem fairly important, I don't mind it too much personally but I'm infamously open minded about input placement. It's also a small missed opportunity the Leech Life down throw isn't explored further, but these are things you largely had to do for the 5k challenge. I did check and for the set minus the FS it's not too close to 5k. The one weird mistake is the one typo in grab where a sentence ends on "but" then nothing. Nonetheless, a cool set that has a few unpolished aspects.
The set's mechanics revolve around the stale move queue in an original way. This is the perfect concept for a 5k set as just trying to get a move off the stale move queue is a simple, cool playstyle that piggy backs off of existing mechanics. Maybe you could add some sort of visual for this though? May as well when it's this central, just something on the HUD or some way of knowing FI is available would be a solid improvement. The set manages to break down Golisopod to basics, he's largely a brawler who just wants to break the foe's shield and work around a focus on "Shield Push Cancel," an obscure but interesting mechanic you dug up from the Art of... videos. It's a cool idea to focus on as it hones in on Golisopod's aggression and cowardice. He basically only wants to attack when he can be assured victory, i.e. break shield or when he can land First Impression. I have not seen before in this exact way, it's a bit like Valerie last contest.
There's still some ideas that aren't fully explored, naturally given it's 5k. The water/soak status effect isn't all that relevant, though it is brought up a few times in the set. The rocks made on the up smash are a little strange on that input when they seem fairly important, I don't mind it too much personally but I'm infamously open minded about input placement. It's also a small missed opportunity the Leech Life down throw isn't explored further, but these are things you largely had to do for the 5k challenge. I did check and for the set minus the FS it's not too close to 5k. The one weird mistake is the one typo in grab where a sentence ends on "but" then nothing. Nonetheless, a cool set that has a few unpolished aspects.
Reading Guzma's Golisopod after Rosemary is almost a metaphorical representation of stepping out of Rosemary's oppressive aroma clouds and taking a breath of air. It's practically a U-Turn in terms of the reader experience, even though Golisopod can't learn U-Turn. This drastic change is almost certainly due to the 5K set challenge. It does look deceptively short and easy to read, but the amount of Smash jargon condensed inside it doesn't allow one to simply skim, as they'd simply be lost. More on this in a minute.
First Impression makes a good, well, first impression. Interacting with Smash mechanics like move staling while still keeping it incredibly relevant to Guzma's Golisopod's playstyle is the absolute smartest way to make a boring move interesting. It just works, as a certain developer would say. I could see Sakurai implementing a move like this. It's completely in-line with the idea of the move too, and the opponent will have to think about it at all points in the match. Obviously you want to lead with it to start putting it in the queue, but your foe knows this and can play around it. A computer foe might not know this and playing against one would be different than a human, despite the move not having any superficial "mind games" going for it like a move with that kind of distinction would. I love First Impression, despite its innocent and simple appearance.
Brevity is the soul of wit, but your adherence to the 5K challenge results in you having no room for voice, resulting in a moveset that is ironically as impersonal as the wordy Rosemary! I do appreciate the light read it provides, as it's a much more digestible moveset as a result of its length, but not because of the technical lingo. Very little of each move describes how the attack actually looks, more of it is dedicated to function. Your writing style tends to be lacking in areas due to word restrictions, as you have several incomplete sentences in the moveset. "Rears a watery arm. Hunkers down and becomes watery before charging forth slowly. Lowers its guard for 60 frames and counters between frames 5-25." If we ignore the Final Smash and introduction, the lack of voice doesn't carry over any of what makes this Guzma's Golisopod. It could be any trainer's! You missed out on some humorous characterization that I would have expected from one of your sets, like Hidan.
I love how you not only mention Smash terms in the moveset which continues the growth in gamesense I've gotten from reading these, but also that you link examples for those who are less-inclined to know these things. Not everyone knows what ledge cancelling is, for instance, but you have a nifty link to help them learn it. After all these years you still write movesets to be both fun and educational, a perspective you were ridiculed for in the past. You're one of the veterans who has consistently stuck to your guns and haven't let anyone change your most important values. That's really great.
One move I question the usefulness of is the Spite version of Sucker Punch. The only way to get a benefit from this is for you to use the counter multiple times in a row and at specific times in the opponent's attack frames. I wouldn't say this is impossible to pull off normally, but it makes Golisopod incredibly predictable for a payoff that... isn't that great. You need a moveset that really benefits from staling, and I mean really benefits, for this to work. To the average player, they won't even care if their moves are stale. I would be interested to see how a Guzma's Golispod andKnuckles Washizu game would go, either against each other or doubles.
As a last note, the Final Smash is quite lengthy compared to the rest of the moveset, it's almost like it was from a completely different one. Perhaps it could have been boiled down to something half as short to give the rest of the moveset some more fat. Then again, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting as a "finale" to the moveset. Good job writing a set within character constraints, either way!
First Impression makes a good, well, first impression. Interacting with Smash mechanics like move staling while still keeping it incredibly relevant to Guzma's Golisopod's playstyle is the absolute smartest way to make a boring move interesting. It just works, as a certain developer would say. I could see Sakurai implementing a move like this. It's completely in-line with the idea of the move too, and the opponent will have to think about it at all points in the match. Obviously you want to lead with it to start putting it in the queue, but your foe knows this and can play around it. A computer foe might not know this and playing against one would be different than a human, despite the move not having any superficial "mind games" going for it like a move with that kind of distinction would. I love First Impression, despite its innocent and simple appearance.
Brevity is the soul of wit, but your adherence to the 5K challenge results in you having no room for voice, resulting in a moveset that is ironically as impersonal as the wordy Rosemary! I do appreciate the light read it provides, as it's a much more digestible moveset as a result of its length, but not because of the technical lingo. Very little of each move describes how the attack actually looks, more of it is dedicated to function. Your writing style tends to be lacking in areas due to word restrictions, as you have several incomplete sentences in the moveset. "Rears a watery arm. Hunkers down and becomes watery before charging forth slowly. Lowers its guard for 60 frames and counters between frames 5-25." If we ignore the Final Smash and introduction, the lack of voice doesn't carry over any of what makes this Guzma's Golisopod. It could be any trainer's! You missed out on some humorous characterization that I would have expected from one of your sets, like Hidan.
I love how you not only mention Smash terms in the moveset which continues the growth in gamesense I've gotten from reading these, but also that you link examples for those who are less-inclined to know these things. Not everyone knows what ledge cancelling is, for instance, but you have a nifty link to help them learn it. After all these years you still write movesets to be both fun and educational, a perspective you were ridiculed for in the past. You're one of the veterans who has consistently stuck to your guns and haven't let anyone change your most important values. That's really great.
One move I question the usefulness of is the Spite version of Sucker Punch. The only way to get a benefit from this is for you to use the counter multiple times in a row and at specific times in the opponent's attack frames. I wouldn't say this is impossible to pull off normally, but it makes Golisopod incredibly predictable for a payoff that... isn't that great. You need a moveset that really benefits from staling, and I mean really benefits, for this to work. To the average player, they won't even care if their moves are stale. I would be interested to see how a Guzma's Golispod and
As a last note, the Final Smash is quite lengthy compared to the rest of the moveset, it's almost like it was from a completely different one. Perhaps it could have been boiled down to something half as short to give the rest of the moveset some more fat. Then again, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting as a "finale" to the moveset. Good job writing a set within character constraints, either way!
Guzmapod
Some people will complain that this is basically a Pokemon set with Guzma's name slapped on it. While it does feel slightly odd, I don't think it is that bad considering I could absolutely see Nintendo making a BG Trainer with a single Pokemon. It certainly is no Ghetsis, anyway. I find it acceptable. Being a short set, Guzmapod here has a bit less to talk about than most, but I will get to it anyway.
Emergency Exit and First Impression are fun ideas that feel quite fitting for Golisopod here, First Impression feels kinda strong to me but it is limited enough I won't give it too much hassle for balance issues. Up Special, however, I have a distinct problem: Doubling the distance of your movement options is too much! And I don't mean that it is too strong, I think it actually makes Golisopod oddly awkward to fight as, since for example doubling Emergency Exit makes it 2.5 Battlefield Platforms which is probably actually less useful than the normal version for example. I would make it 1.5x the distance, which still gives a strong range boost but should be more controllable in terms of positioning.
Down Special is just...confusing? I read the move twice and I am still unsure if the punch is a pure counter or if it comes out without being countered. If it is a counter then it feels incredibly weak, while if it is a regular move...what are the counter frames for then? Also, Spite feels weak to me given that you still take half damage and having a move staled once isn't that incredibly bad on a move you probably won't be throwing out a lot as Golisopod too. Also Down Aerial mentioning Spite is confusing to me how it would work. Really would like more clarity from this attack, and maybe power up Spite.
The key part of this moveset is a variety of simple yet effective and somewhat fun attacks. Dash Attack is simple and effective, but Down Aerial seems like an actually really cool and somewhat unique take on a drill-spin DAir and is fun. The Smashes take good advantage of the Smash Brothers engine and even with the short move descriptions I got a good grasp of how Golisopod would play and generally enjoyed it.
The grab game is kinda where it gets iffy. I am a pretty big fan of the two-arm grab idea, but the throws themselves are more hit or miss. First off, big arm B-Throw seems insanely strong, dealing 18% anywhere aside from ledge is good but mostly KOing at 50% at ledge is utterly absurd. I assume Weak Up Throw -> Strong Back Throw isn't a combo that early but the possibility is scary, in general fishing for this move near ledge seems very strong. I also feel like unless the angle was a semi-spike or something it wouldn't realistically kill this early. The fact that past 50% it is an untechable just adds more power to it. On that note, D-Throw's actual hitbox seems like gutter trash when he has another tech chase throw that can deal a lot more damage and seems to offer more tech chase options as well. I would amp the damage on Down Throw significantly but make it a spacing throw that he doesn't get anything off of, making it a neutral reset that allows Golisopod to reduce his punishment from Spiting.
I feel like the USpec, DSpec and throw issues keep Golisopod out of my votelist right now, but all of them are fairly fixable and I could see it getting a WV if so (although my votelist is getting pretty big by this point!). Considering that it seems to be a fairly fast sub-5k kind of set it coulda been a lot worse!
Some people will complain that this is basically a Pokemon set with Guzma's name slapped on it. While it does feel slightly odd, I don't think it is that bad considering I could absolutely see Nintendo making a BG Trainer with a single Pokemon. It certainly is no Ghetsis, anyway. I find it acceptable. Being a short set, Guzmapod here has a bit less to talk about than most, but I will get to it anyway.
Emergency Exit and First Impression are fun ideas that feel quite fitting for Golisopod here, First Impression feels kinda strong to me but it is limited enough I won't give it too much hassle for balance issues. Up Special, however, I have a distinct problem: Doubling the distance of your movement options is too much! And I don't mean that it is too strong, I think it actually makes Golisopod oddly awkward to fight as, since for example doubling Emergency Exit makes it 2.5 Battlefield Platforms which is probably actually less useful than the normal version for example. I would make it 1.5x the distance, which still gives a strong range boost but should be more controllable in terms of positioning.
Down Special is just...confusing? I read the move twice and I am still unsure if the punch is a pure counter or if it comes out without being countered. If it is a counter then it feels incredibly weak, while if it is a regular move...what are the counter frames for then? Also, Spite feels weak to me given that you still take half damage and having a move staled once isn't that incredibly bad on a move you probably won't be throwing out a lot as Golisopod too. Also Down Aerial mentioning Spite is confusing to me how it would work. Really would like more clarity from this attack, and maybe power up Spite.
The key part of this moveset is a variety of simple yet effective and somewhat fun attacks. Dash Attack is simple and effective, but Down Aerial seems like an actually really cool and somewhat unique take on a drill-spin DAir and is fun. The Smashes take good advantage of the Smash Brothers engine and even with the short move descriptions I got a good grasp of how Golisopod would play and generally enjoyed it.
The grab game is kinda where it gets iffy. I am a pretty big fan of the two-arm grab idea, but the throws themselves are more hit or miss. First off, big arm B-Throw seems insanely strong, dealing 18% anywhere aside from ledge is good but mostly KOing at 50% at ledge is utterly absurd. I assume Weak Up Throw -> Strong Back Throw isn't a combo that early but the possibility is scary, in general fishing for this move near ledge seems very strong. I also feel like unless the angle was a semi-spike or something it wouldn't realistically kill this early. The fact that past 50% it is an untechable just adds more power to it. On that note, D-Throw's actual hitbox seems like gutter trash when he has another tech chase throw that can deal a lot more damage and seems to offer more tech chase options as well. I would amp the damage on Down Throw significantly but make it a spacing throw that he doesn't get anything off of, making it a neutral reset that allows Golisopod to reduce his punishment from Spiting.
I feel like the USpec, DSpec and throw issues keep Golisopod out of my votelist right now, but all of them are fairly fixable and I could see it getting a WV if so (although my votelist is getting pretty big by this point!). Considering that it seems to be a fairly fast sub-5k kind of set it coulda been a lot worse!
My First Impression Of This Set Is Good (Guzma by
Katapultar
)
This set is indeed under 5k words, and making a set that short is indeed a challenge, but most of my problems with the set stem from that brevity.
The set tries several gimmicks, each with too little word count dedicated to it to make it really fleshed out.
For simple moves like First Impression, it works, but for specials like Liquidation's aquaplaning and Razor Shell's soaking, the low word count makes it's hard to grasp the idea. (Making a second or third impression more important and admittedly I didn't read it thoroughly enough to grasp all of it at once)
I would love to see this set as a regular set, because ths mechanics aren't bad at all, just underexplained. For example, I'm quite fond of the double grab game as a way to capitalise on the isopod-nature of Golisopod and First Impression is definitely an idea charming enough to expand it for a bigger set, same with the slippery water, although it'd need to be on more moves than just Up Special
Katapultar
)This set is indeed under 5k words, and making a set that short is indeed a challenge, but most of my problems with the set stem from that brevity.
The set tries several gimmicks, each with too little word count dedicated to it to make it really fleshed out.
For simple moves like First Impression, it works, but for specials like Liquidation's aquaplaning and Razor Shell's soaking, the low word count makes it's hard to grasp the idea. (Making a second or third impression more important and admittedly I didn't read it thoroughly enough to grasp all of it at once)
I would love to see this set as a regular set, because ths mechanics aren't bad at all, just underexplained. For example, I'm quite fond of the double grab game as a way to capitalise on the isopod-nature of Golisopod and First Impression is definitely an idea charming enough to expand it for a bigger set, same with the slippery water, although it'd need to be on more moves than just Up Special
Mint is a surprising set compared to what I expected going in. After the first special, I was slightly confused as the move doesn't go into that much detail on exactly how it works, doesn't say if it's an illusion, or just a bunch of hitboxes happening at once, but I assumed the whole set would focus on that. Ultimately the set is a playground set where most moves seem to create constructs or are interactions. This set really wasn't what I expected It has a lot of ambitious ideas while remaining fairly simple, it's so chock-full of ideas it's practically about to burst. In some ways that's a good thing, in others it does make the set feel unfocused.
There's some moves here I'm not sure about. The up aerial is a prime example, as she seems to just create these balloons and their hitbox is fairly unclear, to the point I have to assume it's more of a construct spawning move on of all things a uair. I don't mind it, but there really ought to be some kind of limit on these constructs, at least a stated duration or it could get busy only using for example uair, down tilt, fsmash together. On those last two though, I actually quite liked those and their interactions, I thought if anything fsmash could've been a fun log roll-ish concept for the whole playstyle to follow.
My other big complaint here is besides a lot of interactions like blowing around scrolls and making all her hitboxes be on fire, the set doesn't have a real focus. The scrolls move isn't really suited for her playstyle as her set is largely constructs, so when you think about it, all it really achieves is spawning more constructs and interactions. Some mechanics like the fair where she cuts up everything into more hitboxes is nice, though all it really achieves for playstyle is more chaos, and there's no deeper playstyle beyond that chaos. It's at least not OOC for this character, it's honestly kind of clever for her to be so spammy in the game's meta as an abashed prankster. Something like Werner's "projectile meter" that fills for every projectile that lands would've worked here. It does feel like it's missing a big central idea in my opinion. It definitely flows but in a pretty simplistic way. On the other hand, it's a tremendous 5k set and one of the most ambitious ones yet, really pushing the envelope. So overall, have to say you did a very nice job here US. Certainly not impossible to improve either if you wanted to refocus things, as it's got a lot of good ideas.
There's some moves here I'm not sure about. The up aerial is a prime example, as she seems to just create these balloons and their hitbox is fairly unclear, to the point I have to assume it's more of a construct spawning move on of all things a uair. I don't mind it, but there really ought to be some kind of limit on these constructs, at least a stated duration or it could get busy only using for example uair, down tilt, fsmash together. On those last two though, I actually quite liked those and their interactions, I thought if anything fsmash could've been a fun log roll-ish concept for the whole playstyle to follow.
My other big complaint here is besides a lot of interactions like blowing around scrolls and making all her hitboxes be on fire, the set doesn't have a real focus. The scrolls move isn't really suited for her playstyle as her set is largely constructs, so when you think about it, all it really achieves is spawning more constructs and interactions. Some mechanics like the fair where she cuts up everything into more hitboxes is nice, though all it really achieves for playstyle is more chaos, and there's no deeper playstyle beyond that chaos. It's at least not OOC for this character, it's honestly kind of clever for her to be so spammy in the game's meta as an abashed prankster. Something like Werner's "projectile meter" that fills for every projectile that lands would've worked here. It does feel like it's missing a big central idea in my opinion. It definitely flows but in a pretty simplistic way. On the other hand, it's a tremendous 5k set and one of the most ambitious ones yet, really pushing the envelope. So overall, have to say you did a very nice job here US. Certainly not impossible to improve either if you wanted to refocus things, as it's got a lot of good ideas.
Origami? You Hardly Know Me!
U UserShadow7989 's Paper Witch Mint is a set I had the privilege of previewing extensively before the contest launched, and I must say she's certainly lived up to my expectations. NSpec is a straightforward enough trap, but the sheer versatility of it grants Mint a very compelling mechanical hook; manipulating scrolls containing your choice of any non-Special attack is brilliant, and it's definitely a fun concept to play around with. SSpec immediately gives us an interesting way to play with it in the form of a simple minion... that can play Trojan Horse with a scroll of your choice, making a nuisance into a potentially deadly Gotcha trap. DSpec is short, but I legitimately love its mechanics: literally allowing you to hit a foe with their own attack. USpec is a fun recovery, and it ties into moving paper constructs around rather nicely. The mechanics behind moving an existing whirlwind are a bit odd, but I think it's handled fairly well. Perhaps you could make it so that dismissing a living tornado and making a new one requires a double-tap...? Her Standards are the first batch of moves eligible to be placed inside scrolls, and they're a fairly motley crew of tools ranging from a handy 2 second windbox, a damaging geyser of ink, a cloud of DoT confetti, and a pair of projectiles that fly off in opposing directions. The moves function just as well when used outside of scrolls as well, happily. The Dash Attack is a little bizarre, but it's fun and handled well. Her Smashes are a bit unorthodox, but again very fun and have some interesting interplay with scrolls and other paper constructs. Her Aerials have some fun ideas as well, like Nair's more customizable "Leaf Shield" secondary fire, Fair splitting projectiles and constructs, and UAir soaking and weighing down paper constructs. Her grab game, uniquely, grants her access to two unique grabs, both of which are handy for making her more versatile and for allowing better access to her throws. Speaking of, they're all fairly interesting and helpful for the Paper Witch, putting foes into dangerous situations or going for outright kills occasionally; they're even more threatening when a scroll can let Mint remain free to act while the foe suffers a throw! All in all, Mint's a fun sort of playground set, with a lot of interesting mechanics to play around with; she also avoids the pitfall of interactions being obtuse and case-by-case, with the majority being universally applicable to all paper.
8/10
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U UserShadow7989 's Paper Witch Mint is a set I had the privilege of previewing extensively before the contest launched, and I must say she's certainly lived up to my expectations. NSpec is a straightforward enough trap, but the sheer versatility of it grants Mint a very compelling mechanical hook; manipulating scrolls containing your choice of any non-Special attack is brilliant, and it's definitely a fun concept to play around with. SSpec immediately gives us an interesting way to play with it in the form of a simple minion... that can play Trojan Horse with a scroll of your choice, making a nuisance into a potentially deadly Gotcha trap. DSpec is short, but I legitimately love its mechanics: literally allowing you to hit a foe with their own attack. USpec is a fun recovery, and it ties into moving paper constructs around rather nicely. The mechanics behind moving an existing whirlwind are a bit odd, but I think it's handled fairly well. Perhaps you could make it so that dismissing a living tornado and making a new one requires a double-tap...? Her Standards are the first batch of moves eligible to be placed inside scrolls, and they're a fairly motley crew of tools ranging from a handy 2 second windbox, a damaging geyser of ink, a cloud of DoT confetti, and a pair of projectiles that fly off in opposing directions. The moves function just as well when used outside of scrolls as well, happily. The Dash Attack is a little bizarre, but it's fun and handled well. Her Smashes are a bit unorthodox, but again very fun and have some interesting interplay with scrolls and other paper constructs. Her Aerials have some fun ideas as well, like Nair's more customizable "Leaf Shield" secondary fire, Fair splitting projectiles and constructs, and UAir soaking and weighing down paper constructs. Her grab game, uniquely, grants her access to two unique grabs, both of which are handy for making her more versatile and for allowing better access to her throws. Speaking of, they're all fairly interesting and helpful for the Paper Witch, putting foes into dangerous situations or going for outright kills occasionally; they're even more threatening when a scroll can let Mint remain free to act while the foe suffers a throw! All in all, Mint's a fun sort of playground set, with a lot of interesting mechanics to play around with; she also avoids the pitfall of interactions being obtuse and case-by-case, with the majority being universally applicable to all paper.
Mint Chocolate Chip (Paper Witch Mint @UserShadow7898)
I'm late to comment this! Sorry for the wait when I said I would do so a long time ago, UserShadow. (And I'm glad you took my advice to give her some CUTE FRECKLES)
Mint is another addition to our 5k set showcase, although I would say I preferred Mint to Fark overall. Mint really pushes the envelope of a 5k set with what it pushes in there, which is perhaps fitting for a paper witch? Mint is ambitious in attempting to fit in a set that uses move copying scrolls, complete with a small minion and a counter to utilize a move of the opponent, into such a small space, and in that way kind of reminds me in a nostalgic way of older MYM sets with high concepts but low word counts. Unlike those sets, Mint knows to use those words to maximize what you need to know for each move instead of irrelevant crap...while adding in some animation flourishes too.
This system is fairly elegant, primarily focused on Mint's paper frogs which have the moves pop out when they die along with simply tossing the paper like an airplane, which Mint can then alter the trajectory of and mess around with. Mint then mixes this up with, for example, her origami tops from her Down Tilt which function as kind of paper projectile-traps that Mint can go shooting off and which bounces off of walls. This combines with one of Mint's more interesting other moves, the interaction log of her Forward Smash: It being like a wall to allow Mint to bounce stuff like tops off of it, ability to collect multiple papers and the additional uses of the stationary log make it quite a fun move. By comparison the Down Smash offers some interesting options, say sticking stuff to logs, but feels a bit too specific for widespread fun, the fireworks flavor is fun but I'm not entirely sure of the usage of setting everything on fire.
Neutral Aerial used to be worded confusingly but you fixed it on my recommendation so yay. The Forward Aerial is cool, although somewhat flashy for a Forward Aerial on a 5k set. At this point I will bring up one downside to this set: The need to explain finer details of it combined with stuffing it full means some of the more down to earth aspects, like the melee of something like Forward Aerial and how it seems useful for air dodges and what means for other moves etc, can be somewhat lost in the shuffle. I'm a nice fan of the Back Aerial and its melee uses + animation, but I am a bit unsure on its interaction. Up Aerial is also kinda out there.
I'm a fan of Forward Throw's uses, but just slapping it onto the throw is perhaps a bit iffy: It almost feels like a command grab, although for me I wouldn't say it is a big concern. This is definitely a spot where Mint would be served to be a non-5k set, as I am quite curious what kind of follow-ups to this throw might exist given the suction. Up Throw feels incredibly redundant when the much more interesting Forward Throw and the more amusing and reasonably good Back Throw both exist inside of the grab game.
Hopefully this comment is good, as I even reread the set some before making it since the set wasn't "fresh" in my head. While somewhat capped by some self imposed problems, Mint is still in the top tier of 5k sets and should find definite spots on votelists somewhere. It's a solid set and makes me hopeful that you'll be putting out 2+ sets a contest, UserShadow...because it is always a treat when you do!
I'm late to comment this! Sorry for the wait when I said I would do so a long time ago, UserShadow. (And I'm glad you took my advice to give her some CUTE FRECKLES)
Mint is another addition to our 5k set showcase, although I would say I preferred Mint to Fark overall. Mint really pushes the envelope of a 5k set with what it pushes in there, which is perhaps fitting for a paper witch? Mint is ambitious in attempting to fit in a set that uses move copying scrolls, complete with a small minion and a counter to utilize a move of the opponent, into such a small space, and in that way kind of reminds me in a nostalgic way of older MYM sets with high concepts but low word counts. Unlike those sets, Mint knows to use those words to maximize what you need to know for each move instead of irrelevant crap...while adding in some animation flourishes too.
This system is fairly elegant, primarily focused on Mint's paper frogs which have the moves pop out when they die along with simply tossing the paper like an airplane, which Mint can then alter the trajectory of and mess around with. Mint then mixes this up with, for example, her origami tops from her Down Tilt which function as kind of paper projectile-traps that Mint can go shooting off and which bounces off of walls. This combines with one of Mint's more interesting other moves, the interaction log of her Forward Smash: It being like a wall to allow Mint to bounce stuff like tops off of it, ability to collect multiple papers and the additional uses of the stationary log make it quite a fun move. By comparison the Down Smash offers some interesting options, say sticking stuff to logs, but feels a bit too specific for widespread fun, the fireworks flavor is fun but I'm not entirely sure of the usage of setting everything on fire.
Neutral Aerial used to be worded confusingly but you fixed it on my recommendation so yay. The Forward Aerial is cool, although somewhat flashy for a Forward Aerial on a 5k set. At this point I will bring up one downside to this set: The need to explain finer details of it combined with stuffing it full means some of the more down to earth aspects, like the melee of something like Forward Aerial and how it seems useful for air dodges and what means for other moves etc, can be somewhat lost in the shuffle. I'm a nice fan of the Back Aerial and its melee uses + animation, but I am a bit unsure on its interaction. Up Aerial is also kinda out there.
I'm a fan of Forward Throw's uses, but just slapping it onto the throw is perhaps a bit iffy: It almost feels like a command grab, although for me I wouldn't say it is a big concern. This is definitely a spot where Mint would be served to be a non-5k set, as I am quite curious what kind of follow-ups to this throw might exist given the suction. Up Throw feels incredibly redundant when the much more interesting Forward Throw and the more amusing and reasonably good Back Throw both exist inside of the grab game.
Hopefully this comment is good, as I even reread the set some before making it since the set wasn't "fresh" in my head. While somewhat capped by some self imposed problems, Mint is still in the top tier of 5k sets and should find definite spots on votelists somewhere. It's a solid set and makes me hopeful that you'll be putting out 2+ sets a contest, UserShadow...because it is always a treat when you do!
Paper Witch Mint is just an adorable moveset that I like quite a lot. I don't know if it's the toolbox-style neutral special, the cutesy-little creations she summons, or the chaotic nature of the moveset that I like the most. Maybe it's all three? There's certainly a lot to like here. Your writing style, for instance, makes a very light and entertaining read that's easier to follow along with than practically any set I've read so far. The way you describe attacks is just so flowing and understandable, not at all bogged down with hefty detail or advanced Smash jargon. The reader can understand how the moves work without having to decipher it.
The neutral special... ah the neutral special. I love toolbox-style moves like this. I'm sure a lot of other MYMers do as well, seeing as toolbox sets have traditionally been successful in the past but the way Mint uses it is really clever. All of her moves interact with it and some do in much cleverer ways than I'd anticipate (the grab, for instance). Turning specific moves into throwing items is a concept I don't think has ever been done before... except maybe in Junahu's TAC. The set turns these cutesy and vibrant hitboxes into a chaotic whirlwind of stage control that I just love.
Speaking of chaos, Mint's prankster personality shines through in the attacks. She does quite a lot through these paper magic attacks, and many of them turn over the usual rules of engagement in Smash. Fighting with her would be like fighting chaos itself. She doesn't discriminate when it comes to attacks; she'll slice her own attacks in half, toss them around, destroy her scrolls, it doesn't matter to Mint. Chaos doesn't care. It would be certainly chaotic with her on the stage. I mean, how do you even maneuver around all these frogs, windboxes, logs she throws out... and aerial smashes? What heresy is this? She goes against the laws of Smash! Shows her disregard for rules and order.
Mint's personality really shines through in the moveset. You really show your talent for crafting these OCs, UserShadow. It's full of personality and friendliness. Little notes here and there in the set really draw the reader in and make them want to know Mint better. You take care to make sure her characterization is consistent and you have plenty of room for voice, even when remaining within 5K! I do adore those taunts especially. What a perfect way to wrap up the moveset. The playstyle section, too, I must commend you for. Thanks for writing a very helpful guide for the reader. Your moveset, devoid of visual imagery, makes up for that with a guide that knows exactly what it's talking about and clears up any confusion the reader may have. Great work, UserShadow!
The neutral special... ah the neutral special. I love toolbox-style moves like this. I'm sure a lot of other MYMers do as well, seeing as toolbox sets have traditionally been successful in the past but the way Mint uses it is really clever. All of her moves interact with it and some do in much cleverer ways than I'd anticipate (the grab, for instance). Turning specific moves into throwing items is a concept I don't think has ever been done before... except maybe in Junahu's TAC. The set turns these cutesy and vibrant hitboxes into a chaotic whirlwind of stage control that I just love.
Speaking of chaos, Mint's prankster personality shines through in the attacks. She does quite a lot through these paper magic attacks, and many of them turn over the usual rules of engagement in Smash. Fighting with her would be like fighting chaos itself. She doesn't discriminate when it comes to attacks; she'll slice her own attacks in half, toss them around, destroy her scrolls, it doesn't matter to Mint. Chaos doesn't care. It would be certainly chaotic with her on the stage. I mean, how do you even maneuver around all these frogs, windboxes, logs she throws out... and aerial smashes? What heresy is this? She goes against the laws of Smash! Shows her disregard for rules and order.
Mint's personality really shines through in the moveset. You really show your talent for crafting these OCs, UserShadow. It's full of personality and friendliness. Little notes here and there in the set really draw the reader in and make them want to know Mint better. You take care to make sure her characterization is consistent and you have plenty of room for voice, even when remaining within 5K! I do adore those taunts especially. What a perfect way to wrap up the moveset. The playstyle section, too, I must commend you for. Thanks for writing a very helpful guide for the reader. Your moveset, devoid of visual imagery, makes up for that with a guide that knows exactly what it's talking about and clears up any confusion the reader may have. Great work, UserShadow!
Paper Mario 4 (Paper Witch Mint by UserShadow7989)
Paper Witch is once again a witch set, with a main mechanic which every single normal interacts with in their own way. While you might by now know my personal opinion on this toolbox kind of movesetting, I felt like it actually worked on Paper Witch Mint. It felt engaging this time, and each move activated my imagination on how I'd use it on the scrolls and logs to send them all over the screen to trap opponents (making it the 32-pencil box version of Xaldin, im a way?)
One question about the scrolls though. The set says they replicate a move of your choosing, but how does that work animation-wise? Does a Paper Paper Witch Mint appear to copy the move? Does the scroll fold itself into a copy of Mint? Does the scroll fold in the weapon used?
I'm a bit confused how that worked, which kinda hampered my ability to really let myself dive deep into the set and have Paper Witch dance in my mind with what's otherwise every crafting kid's dream crafting tool kit.
Paper Witch is once again a witch set, with a main mechanic which every single normal interacts with in their own way. While you might by now know my personal opinion on this toolbox kind of movesetting, I felt like it actually worked on Paper Witch Mint. It felt engaging this time, and each move activated my imagination on how I'd use it on the scrolls and logs to send them all over the screen to trap opponents (making it the 32-pencil box version of Xaldin, im a way?)
One question about the scrolls though. The set says they replicate a move of your choosing, but how does that work animation-wise? Does a Paper Paper Witch Mint appear to copy the move? Does the scroll fold itself into a copy of Mint? Does the scroll fold in the weapon used?
I'm a bit confused how that worked, which kinda hampered my ability to really let myself dive deep into the set and have Paper Witch dance in my mind with what's otherwise every crafting kid's dream crafting tool kit.
Von Guu is a fun little interaction playground of creative effects and not always intuitive mechanics. As far as my own sets, it reminds me of my now very aged Garbodor set wherein Garbodor popped off his head in his up special. Obviously Von Guu does the concept far better, though the idea still is very similar and there's pitfalls to this approach that are addressed and yet, feel a little underused at the same time. I really like the creativity you put into every move here, especially at the end of the set when you'd expect it to dial down, you keep creating animations that are pretty fun, for example summoning conductors on the stage as makeshift props is very imaginative. The set also sounds fun to play just from purely being able to throw out all these hitboxes at once, and the playstyle isn't bad.
The core of the set is building up his minions to a dramatic bursting point. The head mechanics do play into this a little as they can get dragged along for the ride, but this is where the set could've really ascended to the next level. If there was some slicker interaction between the ever growing minions and the disembodied head, rather than a fairly perfunctory one, it'd be great. The head mechanic is honestly the most lacking part of the set as a lot of the time when the interactions pop up for it they do feel a tad forced, though I'm glad they're there. If the set didn't have these interactions the head would feel pretty irrelevant, but it doesn't help the set when it's a choice of irrelevant or forced. There probably needed to be some other mechanic to tie them together in a more natural way. Still, I can't really complain too much about the set. It's a well put together and fun moveset. Good job.
The core of the set is building up his minions to a dramatic bursting point. The head mechanics do play into this a little as they can get dragged along for the ride, but this is where the set could've really ascended to the next level. If there was some slicker interaction between the ever growing minions and the disembodied head, rather than a fairly perfunctory one, it'd be great. The head mechanic is honestly the most lacking part of the set as a lot of the time when the interactions pop up for it they do feel a tad forced, though I'm glad they're there. If the set didn't have these interactions the head would feel pretty irrelevant, but it doesn't help the set when it's a choice of irrelevant or forced. There probably needed to be some other mechanic to tie them together in a more natural way. Still, I can't really complain too much about the set. It's a well put together and fun moveset. Good job.
I need more roguelike-inspired movesets in my life. Movesets like Baron Von Guu. You've certainly nailed down the character, it looks like. Baron Von Guu feels like a Snidely Whiplashian villain with all the evil laughs, animations, alliteration, and minions you've written for him. He's certainly not a serious villain, is he? Our Baron is more like the kind of villain you see get beaten time and time again and come back next time with more dastardly devices to defeat our heroes. Very fitting of Flinthook, too, which as I remember was a kind of Saturday Morning Cartoon-style game about our plucky space captain.
Unfortunately for all the "slime" based attacks, they certainly don't feel like slime to me. The hitboxes are slime in visual only, not function. They don't behave like slime at all, or any kind of liquid, save for a spare mention of "frothy" and their interaction with the "Liquidators" and Baron Von Guu's head sloshing around. One could make a case for the Liquidators not behaving like slime or goo or any kind of liquid either, really- their hitboxes are transcendant and attacks with slime could be substituted for pretty much any other kind of energy, such as ectoplasmic, nuclear, or even solar. Imagine, if you would, the Liquidators being made of light; the slime pellets being light pellets as in Mega Man; and even the signature beam from his boss fight acting as a solar beam. The main argument against this is of course the interaction between the goo attacks and the Liquidators themselves, which I think is quite brilliant.
This interaction is the main attraction of the moveset and what makes it feel so unique. It kind of reminds me of a Kamekian-style moveset where you summon a minion, use attacks on it to grow it, and then get a payoff from it being big. In this case it has several tiers of strength from the result of your attacks which I think is pretty neat design choice. You say that the biggest reward is the huge Liquidator, but you allow different players with different playstyles to use the Liquidators in their own way. For instance, I'm quite fond of the small Liquidators that pursue the foe and accumulate damage over time, a constant status effect that's detrimental and puts them on their toes, constantly harassing them. That's the kind of player I am.
Baron Von Guu's other attacks compliment him quite nicely. The lightning attacks, for instance, really scream "villain" especially the tesla coils on his smash, and there's something really comical about Von Guu taking off his head and using it as an exaggerated soccer ball. The "self-knockback" clause on it is a very smart design decision that I appreciate. I'm not that fond of his Caltrops as I think he has plenty of stage control already but they were lifted straight from the boss battle so I don't blame you for including them.
I do like that the moveset carries over some of the tense pace of Von Guu's boss fight. For reference, the fight had Flinthook constantly jumping onto hooks to avoid a myriad of imminent projectiles and beams, and the floor itself was dangerous, giving staying on the move a stressful priority. I think Von Guu plays similarly here; if the foe stays still the Liquidators will catch up to them and they'll be at a disadvantage. Most of Von Guu's best attacks are on the ground which means they'll want to approach from the air and chase him in the air. The barrage of slime pellets, beams, and his own head even make the fight a bullet hell. All in all, a very funny and well-characterized take on Von Guu that shows off your very easy-going, flowing move interactions.
Unfortunately for all the "slime" based attacks, they certainly don't feel like slime to me. The hitboxes are slime in visual only, not function. They don't behave like slime at all, or any kind of liquid, save for a spare mention of "frothy" and their interaction with the "Liquidators" and Baron Von Guu's head sloshing around. One could make a case for the Liquidators not behaving like slime or goo or any kind of liquid either, really- their hitboxes are transcendant and attacks with slime could be substituted for pretty much any other kind of energy, such as ectoplasmic, nuclear, or even solar. Imagine, if you would, the Liquidators being made of light; the slime pellets being light pellets as in Mega Man; and even the signature beam from his boss fight acting as a solar beam. The main argument against this is of course the interaction between the goo attacks and the Liquidators themselves, which I think is quite brilliant.
This interaction is the main attraction of the moveset and what makes it feel so unique. It kind of reminds me of a Kamekian-style moveset where you summon a minion, use attacks on it to grow it, and then get a payoff from it being big. In this case it has several tiers of strength from the result of your attacks which I think is pretty neat design choice. You say that the biggest reward is the huge Liquidator, but you allow different players with different playstyles to use the Liquidators in their own way. For instance, I'm quite fond of the small Liquidators that pursue the foe and accumulate damage over time, a constant status effect that's detrimental and puts them on their toes, constantly harassing them. That's the kind of player I am.
Baron Von Guu's other attacks compliment him quite nicely. The lightning attacks, for instance, really scream "villain" especially the tesla coils on his smash, and there's something really comical about Von Guu taking off his head and using it as an exaggerated soccer ball. The "self-knockback" clause on it is a very smart design decision that I appreciate. I'm not that fond of his Caltrops as I think he has plenty of stage control already but they were lifted straight from the boss battle so I don't blame you for including them.
I do like that the moveset carries over some of the tense pace of Von Guu's boss fight. For reference, the fight had Flinthook constantly jumping onto hooks to avoid a myriad of imminent projectiles and beams, and the floor itself was dangerous, giving staying on the move a stressful priority. I think Von Guu plays similarly here; if the foe stays still the Liquidators will catch up to them and they'll be at a disadvantage. Most of Von Guu's best attacks are on the ground which means they'll want to approach from the air and chase him in the air. The barrage of slime pellets, beams, and his own head even make the fight a bullet hell. All in all, a very funny and well-characterized take on Von Guu that shows off your very easy-going, flowing move interactions.
Gotta say I'm a fan of a few concepts brought in here. The ability to separate the body and head as an emergency measure and boot the head around as an attack is pretty nifty, and I love the general concept of Liquidators as moving damage hitboxes he can bulk up and even detonate for certain trade-offs, as well as his Side Special trap/projectile. He can play a dangerous game of keep-away, forcing the opponent to fight through his set up to get at his head, and rob them of victory at the last second by punting his own head out of the way if they don't eliminate his body first.
I worry Electrified Liquidators might make him a little TOO good at the game of keep away, essentially creating a protective field around his head that opponents will have trouble getting through (there's no limited duration to the electrified effect and they vary from small but fast to slow/immobile but very large), but I feel most characters have a means to deal with it and at worst will just take a little damage on the chin. The balance of the minion is a bit hard to get a feel for given they can only be destroyed by Von Guu specifically deciding to do so and can be such a massive hitbox/defensive measure, but I think it's workable here.
I do wish that the amount of growth each slime attack gives the Liquidator was a bit more defined (and is it just number of hits that determines it? size of the slime hitbox? damage of the hitbox? Jab and Down Tilt imply number of hits), but I can understand the choice to be a bit vague on the exact numbers. It felt like he could size them up where he wanted fairly quickly at first, without it being too much, but Forward Smash's multihit describes it as requiring a full stream of 10-14 hits to get them from huge to popping (though granted I imagine the final step requires the most growth given the jumps in size), so it's apparently a decent bit of work.
Speaking of numbers, jab might do a little too much damage, at least for an attack that sounds as spammable as it is. Especially up close; a foe near enough and tall enough to be hit by all three is going to be smarting worse than if they were caught by the sweetspot if I didn't misunderstand it. The damage numbers in general feel a little high in some spots, Up Tilt being another example (though slightly offset by being harder to land). Combined with foes likely having to slog their way through a Liquidator to get at his head, I think he may rack damage up too easily.
That aside, I feel his set doesn't quite flow together enough. Barring Electrified Liquidators helping stun them, I don't think he has many ways to follow up on a prior move hitting the opponent. There's a decent bit there, mind- his moves provide some basic spacing options for his head and his opponents (which leads into the Liquidators pretty well), and several are good for hitting that pin on his caltrops (and several aren't, ideal for racking up some hits or moving them around before detonation). It just feels like there's a little more that could be done with its elements aside from the aspects of 'move head, hit pin, pump up Liquidator', though there's certainly something that can be said for simplicity, and I feel it's better than if every move had some crazy extra effect.
Some possible ideas for making it all click in place: using the Side Special again while a Liquidator is out has Von Guu call to it, temporarily causing it to rush over to him (or more specifically, his head) as a way to 'steer' its course? Down Special when head is detached and far causes the head to fly or otherwise be pulled a short distance towards his body (weak but flinches, letting Von Guu chain some hits together by getting his opponent between him and his head at the obvious risks that entials, then using the same attack he whacks the opponent with to reset his head to a safe distance, has cool down and can't be done while head is in knockback from an opponent's hit so he can't do silly stuff or constantly 'yoink' his head out of harm's way... I'm rambling)? I feel something can be done with those inputs at the points they do nothing to bridge that last gap.
His head could also interact with his other attacks by means other than just moving it around; Up Tilt could let him perform a weaker/smaller/shorter lived version of the 'head attached' hitbox over his detached head, for example? Essentially his head could serve as a mobile 'trap' in exchange for leaving it, his weak point, in a vulnerable position. Down Smash reflecting his head could have a brief moment where the side hitbox of the former covers the latter as it flies off, making it a nasty surprise hit on foes thinking it'd be an easy target.
Ideas aside, I do agree with FA's comment in the chat from a ways back that using other Smash-like games' animations for references might not be the best idea; assuming we know the ones in Smash are fine, but not everyone's touched Super Smash Flash 2, though you've put basic descriptions in with the mentions so it's mostly fine (the one that bothers me is Orcane's Forward Aerial being used to refer to control scheme without further explanation).
Overall I found Baron Von Guu an enjoyable read. While he didn't wow me, I wouldn't call the set bad by any stretch of the imagination. The core concepts are fun, and your writing style made it easy for even me to read.
I worry Electrified Liquidators might make him a little TOO good at the game of keep away, essentially creating a protective field around his head that opponents will have trouble getting through (there's no limited duration to the electrified effect and they vary from small but fast to slow/immobile but very large), but I feel most characters have a means to deal with it and at worst will just take a little damage on the chin. The balance of the minion is a bit hard to get a feel for given they can only be destroyed by Von Guu specifically deciding to do so and can be such a massive hitbox/defensive measure, but I think it's workable here.
I do wish that the amount of growth each slime attack gives the Liquidator was a bit more defined (and is it just number of hits that determines it? size of the slime hitbox? damage of the hitbox? Jab and Down Tilt imply number of hits), but I can understand the choice to be a bit vague on the exact numbers. It felt like he could size them up where he wanted fairly quickly at first, without it being too much, but Forward Smash's multihit describes it as requiring a full stream of 10-14 hits to get them from huge to popping (though granted I imagine the final step requires the most growth given the jumps in size), so it's apparently a decent bit of work.
Speaking of numbers, jab might do a little too much damage, at least for an attack that sounds as spammable as it is. Especially up close; a foe near enough and tall enough to be hit by all three is going to be smarting worse than if they were caught by the sweetspot if I didn't misunderstand it. The damage numbers in general feel a little high in some spots, Up Tilt being another example (though slightly offset by being harder to land). Combined with foes likely having to slog their way through a Liquidator to get at his head, I think he may rack damage up too easily.
That aside, I feel his set doesn't quite flow together enough. Barring Electrified Liquidators helping stun them, I don't think he has many ways to follow up on a prior move hitting the opponent. There's a decent bit there, mind- his moves provide some basic spacing options for his head and his opponents (which leads into the Liquidators pretty well), and several are good for hitting that pin on his caltrops (and several aren't, ideal for racking up some hits or moving them around before detonation). It just feels like there's a little more that could be done with its elements aside from the aspects of 'move head, hit pin, pump up Liquidator', though there's certainly something that can be said for simplicity, and I feel it's better than if every move had some crazy extra effect.
Some possible ideas for making it all click in place: using the Side Special again while a Liquidator is out has Von Guu call to it, temporarily causing it to rush over to him (or more specifically, his head) as a way to 'steer' its course? Down Special when head is detached and far causes the head to fly or otherwise be pulled a short distance towards his body (weak but flinches, letting Von Guu chain some hits together by getting his opponent between him and his head at the obvious risks that entials, then using the same attack he whacks the opponent with to reset his head to a safe distance, has cool down and can't be done while head is in knockback from an opponent's hit so he can't do silly stuff or constantly 'yoink' his head out of harm's way... I'm rambling)? I feel something can be done with those inputs at the points they do nothing to bridge that last gap.
His head could also interact with his other attacks by means other than just moving it around; Up Tilt could let him perform a weaker/smaller/shorter lived version of the 'head attached' hitbox over his detached head, for example? Essentially his head could serve as a mobile 'trap' in exchange for leaving it, his weak point, in a vulnerable position. Down Smash reflecting his head could have a brief moment where the side hitbox of the former covers the latter as it flies off, making it a nasty surprise hit on foes thinking it'd be an easy target.
Ideas aside, I do agree with FA's comment in the chat from a ways back that using other Smash-like games' animations for references might not be the best idea; assuming we know the ones in Smash are fine, but not everyone's touched Super Smash Flash 2, though you've put basic descriptions in with the mentions so it's mostly fine (the one that bothers me is Orcane's Forward Aerial being used to refer to control scheme without further explanation).
Overall I found Baron Von Guu an enjoyable read. While he didn't wow me, I wouldn't call the set bad by any stretch of the imagination. The core concepts are fun, and your writing style made it easy for even me to read.
DOWN WITH THE DECOUPAGE
9/10
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9/10
Ulrich Hetfield is a super fun set, I really love the Blood Puppet and everything he can do with it. It almost gives me some faint Doc To vibes in that everything he does ties back to the Puppet in some manner, even if indirectly. It also builds heavily on Djimmi the Great's Cuphead puppet from last MYM, making it into a major part of the set in a very enjoyable manner. The heavy metal flavor and blood weaponry make him a pleasantly "edgy" character that never goes too far over the edge.
Ulrich Hetfield is a pretty extraordinary set in a few ways. For one, that grab game is a big deal, boasting a minion upgrade mechanic alongside what is at times a completely separate set of throws dedicated to the minions. The core of the set is certainly of interest to me as it combines a minion mechanic from my Djimmi set and a bunch of other high concept ideas. Primary among them is an idea reminiscent of Medea, where you switch around ownership of the minion to swap who takes self damage, at the same time completely reversing the implications of the minion. You’ve practically made it your trademark to invent a mechanic and turn it on its head, it’s pretty cool here. That and the grab game is the primary appeal of the set to me, and it’s definitely very fun. The one niggle I have there is the set kind of forgets about the whole self damage aspect, though I suppose it does generally work into everything regardless when it’s as universal as passive damage on you or the foe.
For the most part the set is quite intuitive, though I would point out the down smash as the sole offender. I don’t really like how it interrupts the minion by force and the logic of a minion being forced to do DK’s up smash clap because of a shockwave’s a little tacky. I would much rather the animation just made them wobble around for a similar hitbox. That’s pretty much the one time the set went there, besides maybe the wings being a little weird to visualize. I do also appreciate the aerials provided necessary melee focus and a simpler touch that is a tremendous help to the set. The smashes were good in this way too, giving some nice satisfying KO moves in the midst of a very meaty interaction heavy set. If anything, I might've preferred more moves like fsmash, and I prefer usmash to dsmash to give you an idea of what I liked there.
Overall the set focuses to my surprise on the minions’ status rather than on self damage or projectiles, by status I mean buffing them or filling them with blood in various ways. It has plenty of projectiles and the set manages to squeeze all it can out of the minions. You’re always feeding the beast in one way or another. So this ends up as a strong playstyle where Ulrich essentially has tons of set up in various ways he can either sit and spam given the time, or play with in creative offensive ways. Granted I might’ve preferred a focus on the self damage or projectiles, we have definitely seen this kind of minion playstyle before. But this just works too naturally to complain. While not wholly original, that doesn’t detract from the impressive creativity on display here. It’s a great set and there’s very little to criticize, may be one of your best period.
I did request to see a finished intro section and I was very happy with the results. That was a wonderfully written intro for an edgy original character. I complained earlier about visualizing the wings but it goes a ways in specifying the character's darker taste in aesthetics, plus the weapons like a scythe demonstrating his sheer edge. It's the little touches like that which make the set memorable.
For the most part the set is quite intuitive, though I would point out the down smash as the sole offender. I don’t really like how it interrupts the minion by force and the logic of a minion being forced to do DK’s up smash clap because of a shockwave’s a little tacky. I would much rather the animation just made them wobble around for a similar hitbox. That’s pretty much the one time the set went there, besides maybe the wings being a little weird to visualize. I do also appreciate the aerials provided necessary melee focus and a simpler touch that is a tremendous help to the set. The smashes were good in this way too, giving some nice satisfying KO moves in the midst of a very meaty interaction heavy set. If anything, I might've preferred more moves like fsmash, and I prefer usmash to dsmash to give you an idea of what I liked there.
Overall the set focuses to my surprise on the minions’ status rather than on self damage or projectiles, by status I mean buffing them or filling them with blood in various ways. It has plenty of projectiles and the set manages to squeeze all it can out of the minions. You’re always feeding the beast in one way or another. So this ends up as a strong playstyle where Ulrich essentially has tons of set up in various ways he can either sit and spam given the time, or play with in creative offensive ways. Granted I might’ve preferred a focus on the self damage or projectiles, we have definitely seen this kind of minion playstyle before. But this just works too naturally to complain. While not wholly original, that doesn’t detract from the impressive creativity on display here. It’s a great set and there’s very little to criticize, may be one of your best period.
I did request to see a finished intro section and I was very happy with the results. That was a wonderfully written intro for an edgy original character. I complained earlier about visualizing the wings but it goes a ways in specifying the character's darker taste in aesthetics, plus the weapons like a scythe demonstrating his sheer edge. It's the little touches like that which make the set memorable.
I don't think anyone who knows my taste in movesets will be surprised that this is my favorite set of the contest by a sizeable margin, because this is a very fun projectile/minion playground type set. Admittedly, its not one that reinvents the wheel, working off a projectile pocket is a concept MYM used quite a lot in the Cuphead movement last contest. That said, I really do appreciate Ulrich's take on it, as the Blood Puppet is approached in a very interesting way. For one it has an extremely rhythmic pattern, taking out the usual guesswork that interacting off minions sometimes suffers from a bit in exchange for one that's very predictable for both Ulrich and his opponent. Its more of an extension of Ulrich's own abilities than a separate entity, its primary power being the reuse of Ulrich's projectiles at times he could never use them himself. The set is absolutely loaded with great interactions with the blood puppet, from all the things it can absorb to using it as a simple tether point for Up Special, which the aerial game plays off for some surprisingly excellent melee in a set that seems like it would struggle to have that.
The grab game is a real highlight, having both a series of interesting actual throws with the cargo throw and the battery/healing throws to start out with but really giving the blood puppet a ton of exciting material that opens up several new layers of depth for it. I will say the pummel mechanics strike me as borderline impractical at times(I think the hammer will probably almost never happen), but with how closely Ulrich will probably play alongside his Blood Puppet and how many options he has to weaponize it out of a grab game or just abuse its close proximity to him, its honestly not as bad as it might appear at first glance from the numbers. I will say the set's not perfect, Smady pointed out Down Smash feels a little strange animation-wise and while I generally like the move I agree with him, and there's an interaction or two that feels superfluous here or there. That said, this is a pretty impressive realization of a genre that was arguably spammed half to death last contest in the Cuphead movement, but honestly still manages to feel at all fresh here. I think its that you didn't rely on a lot of typical projectile patterns, the set actually has zero reflectors in it despite being a bullet hell set. That's genuinely kind of impressive.
The grab game is a real highlight, having both a series of interesting actual throws with the cargo throw and the battery/healing throws to start out with but really giving the blood puppet a ton of exciting material that opens up several new layers of depth for it. I will say the pummel mechanics strike me as borderline impractical at times(I think the hammer will probably almost never happen), but with how closely Ulrich will probably play alongside his Blood Puppet and how many options he has to weaponize it out of a grab game or just abuse its close proximity to him, its honestly not as bad as it might appear at first glance from the numbers. I will say the set's not perfect, Smady pointed out Down Smash feels a little strange animation-wise and while I generally like the move I agree with him, and there's an interaction or two that feels superfluous here or there. That said, this is a pretty impressive realization of a genre that was arguably spammed half to death last contest in the Cuphead movement, but honestly still manages to feel at all fresh here. I think its that you didn't rely on a lot of typical projectile patterns, the set actually has zero reflectors in it despite being a bullet hell set. That's genuinely kind of impressive.
I have been meaning to write a comment for Ulrich Hetfield for quite some time, but I wanted to give it a more careful read before I conveyed my thoughts on it. Apologies, Froy. The good news is I can echo the praise so many people have given Ulrich. The set is perhaps the poster child for your brand, and shows off all the things that make your movesets great.
You know how I said that your moves often feel like multiple moves masquerading as one? In this set it's fairly obvious because of a dense interaction web involving the Blood Puppets. The Blood Puppets are clearly the star of the show here, and Ulrich is fairly content to sit back and support them. It fits his character that you've crafted fairly well; I would have loved more "iconoclast" and less "vampire" but the evil minister side of him shines fairly well in the playstyle as he manipulates his minions. He gives them a command (projectile) then they regurgitate that command (projectile) like the mindless drones they are. Ulrich suffers from his congregation being attack, but only half of that damage. He will sometimes reward them with his own lifeblood and sustain them but he's equally ready to dispose of them when they provide a benefit to him. Did he really need to be that edgy, however? Blood, Metallica, scythes, atheism, demon/angel wings, and anime... 13-year-old me would be in love with this guy.
The density and depth of your move interactions is very impressive and you seek out describing an interaction with practically everything. This sometimes comes as a detriment to the reading experience, as the moveset is so dense and heavy it's a test of endurance to read in one sentence. The minion-altering throw is quite possibly the worst/best example of this, as it feels like its own moveset in a way. This isn't anything too terribly bad, it's just not that friendly or welcoming. Some of the interactions are insane in scope of move interactions, such as the throw that Ulrich can set up three other moves to set up a kill combo with. The other projectile-absorbing interactions and the blood puddles really squeezes the most out of this singular minion-focused playstyle. I do love Ulrich, but I must say that I don't feel the desire to read another set with this playstyle after this monster of a read. Perhaps I feel like it's been done to death, or maybe I have this creeping feeling that moveset authors would like to turn what would be a normal character concept into something deeper by adding a minion, trap, or other paraphernalia that they can apply their attacks to to complicate things. Think of it as a "Build-A-Bear Workshop" playstyle, if you know what I mean.
I'm not quite as fond of the grab game as others, although I do recognize how impressive it is. It's mainly the mechanical difference between the pummel and the second part of the Neutral Special when attached to a Blood Puppet. It looks to me like they're the same attack, but the Pummel has a significant difference in effect than the Side Special. Why is it "cracked" now? Why does it gain weight and make shockwaves, when it doesn't in the Side Special? Also, the interaction between "stacking" blood in the Down Throw I just... don't get. I assume it has to do with the pummel, which is reasonable. The pummel never mentions "stacks", and its added weight fades away; the modifications from the Down Throw add even more weight than the weight added from their threshold requirement, and this weight never goes away. The very first modifications (the wings) require two seconds of pumped blood which would give the Blood Puppet two more units of weight but the wings themselves add three units. Also do they stack with the blood pumped in by the pummel? Will the modification's weight be added on or subtracted from the weight from the pummel? I don't quite understand how "upgrading" one of the new features works either; I assume you use the down throw multiple times on the same Blood Puppet. If that's so, I don't know if you must pump the required amount of blood from the pummel into it prior to using the throw every time, or if you can upgrade it for free every time. It seems like a lot of investment for very little payoff, even though the move is quite a cool bit of interaction with Ulrich and his minions. Perhaps I'm not quite groking it due to the sheer density of information provided?
A few minor notes that may just be typing errors that can be easily fixed before I close. The dash attack makes Ulrich travel half the length of Battlefield as it's currently worded: "Hetfield usually goes about half of a Battlefield, but there are a few ways to change this." I assume you meant to write Battlefield platform. The secondary grab uses the A button, which I believe you meant to write Z button: "Hetfield is rather unique in having a second grab: if A is held, Hetfield will hold an open palm and release a huge spray of blood..." If not, well, it would be helpful to know at what point you hold A.
Final thoughts: Awesome job, Froy. You crafted a fine OC that serves the playstyle, and a fine moveset that was made with an interesting idea and playstyle that serves the character. Neither of them are quite endearing on their own, but they compliment each other so well that the moveset works wonderfully. You clearly had a blast writing it, and it feels like a sustained idea formulated from the spirit of music. I do love those song references. It's quite a lot to wrap your head around, but when you finally get what every move does in relation to the blood puppets you get a satisfying read. The focus on projectiles and interactions isn't that much of a detriment, although some move interactions feel contrived in places. Notably as some people have pointed out, is the Down Smash. My recommendation would be to perhaps change the DK clap to a fist emerging from the Blood Puppet in a Bayonetta-style fashion. Other than that, awesome job Froy; this eclipses everything else I've read from you this contest.
You know how I said that your moves often feel like multiple moves masquerading as one? In this set it's fairly obvious because of a dense interaction web involving the Blood Puppets. The Blood Puppets are clearly the star of the show here, and Ulrich is fairly content to sit back and support them. It fits his character that you've crafted fairly well; I would have loved more "iconoclast" and less "vampire" but the evil minister side of him shines fairly well in the playstyle as he manipulates his minions. He gives them a command (projectile) then they regurgitate that command (projectile) like the mindless drones they are. Ulrich suffers from his congregation being attack, but only half of that damage. He will sometimes reward them with his own lifeblood and sustain them but he's equally ready to dispose of them when they provide a benefit to him. Did he really need to be that edgy, however? Blood, Metallica, scythes, atheism, demon/angel wings, and anime... 13-year-old me would be in love with this guy.
The density and depth of your move interactions is very impressive and you seek out describing an interaction with practically everything. This sometimes comes as a detriment to the reading experience, as the moveset is so dense and heavy it's a test of endurance to read in one sentence. The minion-altering throw is quite possibly the worst/best example of this, as it feels like its own moveset in a way. This isn't anything too terribly bad, it's just not that friendly or welcoming. Some of the interactions are insane in scope of move interactions, such as the throw that Ulrich can set up three other moves to set up a kill combo with. The other projectile-absorbing interactions and the blood puddles really squeezes the most out of this singular minion-focused playstyle. I do love Ulrich, but I must say that I don't feel the desire to read another set with this playstyle after this monster of a read. Perhaps I feel like it's been done to death, or maybe I have this creeping feeling that moveset authors would like to turn what would be a normal character concept into something deeper by adding a minion, trap, or other paraphernalia that they can apply their attacks to to complicate things. Think of it as a "Build-A-Bear Workshop" playstyle, if you know what I mean.
I'm not quite as fond of the grab game as others, although I do recognize how impressive it is. It's mainly the mechanical difference between the pummel and the second part of the Neutral Special when attached to a Blood Puppet. It looks to me like they're the same attack, but the Pummel has a significant difference in effect than the Side Special. Why is it "cracked" now? Why does it gain weight and make shockwaves, when it doesn't in the Side Special? Also, the interaction between "stacking" blood in the Down Throw I just... don't get. I assume it has to do with the pummel, which is reasonable. The pummel never mentions "stacks", and its added weight fades away; the modifications from the Down Throw add even more weight than the weight added from their threshold requirement, and this weight never goes away. The very first modifications (the wings) require two seconds of pumped blood which would give the Blood Puppet two more units of weight but the wings themselves add three units. Also do they stack with the blood pumped in by the pummel? Will the modification's weight be added on or subtracted from the weight from the pummel? I don't quite understand how "upgrading" one of the new features works either; I assume you use the down throw multiple times on the same Blood Puppet. If that's so, I don't know if you must pump the required amount of blood from the pummel into it prior to using the throw every time, or if you can upgrade it for free every time. It seems like a lot of investment for very little payoff, even though the move is quite a cool bit of interaction with Ulrich and his minions. Perhaps I'm not quite groking it due to the sheer density of information provided?
A few minor notes that may just be typing errors that can be easily fixed before I close. The dash attack makes Ulrich travel half the length of Battlefield as it's currently worded: "Hetfield usually goes about half of a Battlefield, but there are a few ways to change this." I assume you meant to write Battlefield platform. The secondary grab uses the A button, which I believe you meant to write Z button: "Hetfield is rather unique in having a second grab: if A is held, Hetfield will hold an open palm and release a huge spray of blood..." If not, well, it would be helpful to know at what point you hold A.
Final thoughts: Awesome job, Froy. You crafted a fine OC that serves the playstyle, and a fine moveset that was made with an interesting idea and playstyle that serves the character. Neither of them are quite endearing on their own, but they compliment each other so well that the moveset works wonderfully. You clearly had a blast writing it, and it feels like a sustained idea formulated from the spirit of music. I do love those song references. It's quite a lot to wrap your head around, but when you finally get what every move does in relation to the blood puppets you get a satisfying read. The focus on projectiles and interactions isn't that much of a detriment, although some move interactions feel contrived in places. Notably as some people have pointed out, is the Down Smash. My recommendation would be to perhaps change the DK clap to a fist emerging from the Blood Puppet in a Bayonetta-style fashion. Other than that, awesome job Froy; this eclipses everything else I've read from you this contest.
I've already confided my love of this set to you in private, so I'll put it here in comment form. The blood puppet is a fairly brilliant central minion and probably one of my favorites, incorporating a large number of features and possible ways to 'customize' between Ulrich's varied projectiles and his blood stacks/Down Throw upgrades, and means of taking advantage of it such as Down Smash or Up Special. I do worry the set gets somewhat overcomplex from the various effects (a concern I've always got in mind while doing set work or reading a set), but the implementation of them makes it all fairly easy to track without getting patently ridiculous.
Half the blood puppet's damage being passed along to Ulrich keeps him from just letting it do the job for him, while the lack of hit stun encourages him to get in there himself to capitalize. He's still a little camp-y from his variety of solid projectiles, but he's still proactive in the fight himself, and while his moves have a focus on what they can do with the blood puppet, they all have interesting implications in his own fighting. In other words, he neatly avoids the two main pitfalls that can come from sets centered on powerful minions. Indeed, he needs to babysit it a bit to get the most from it, and its predictable pattern makes it easy to play around for him and his opponents.
On a point brought up in Smady's comment: I don't feel it's too tacky to have the blood puppet clap above its head in response to a hit, but it is a little awkward. Another possibility would be to have the shockwave distort its shape, the force running up its body for a similar effect and coming to a head atop its own, spiking upwards? Trying to think of an animation that directly connects to the cause while keeping much of the mechanical effect, but I could see the arguement for it being a bit out of place, but it's not a deal breaker for me.
I don't have as much to offer on comment of Ulrich as I do for Von Guu, but aside from being a very long read, I don't think there's as much constructive criticism I can offer. Well done!
Half the blood puppet's damage being passed along to Ulrich keeps him from just letting it do the job for him, while the lack of hit stun encourages him to get in there himself to capitalize. He's still a little camp-y from his variety of solid projectiles, but he's still proactive in the fight himself, and while his moves have a focus on what they can do with the blood puppet, they all have interesting implications in his own fighting. In other words, he neatly avoids the two main pitfalls that can come from sets centered on powerful minions. Indeed, he needs to babysit it a bit to get the most from it, and its predictable pattern makes it easy to play around for him and his opponents.
On a point brought up in Smady's comment: I don't feel it's too tacky to have the blood puppet clap above its head in response to a hit, but it is a little awkward. Another possibility would be to have the shockwave distort its shape, the force running up its body for a similar effect and coming to a head atop its own, spiking upwards? Trying to think of an animation that directly connects to the cause while keeping much of the mechanical effect, but I could see the arguement for it being a bit out of place, but it's not a deal breaker for me.
I don't have as much to offer on comment of Ulrich as I do for Von Guu, but aside from being a very long read, I don't think there's as much constructive criticism I can offer. Well done!
ULRICH HETFIELD
This set was advertised as the frontrunner that was most obviously my style, and it delivers with very direct minion/trap interactions with the puddle and blood puppet. The primary core I felt was the ftilt and the smashes that more made up the core of his game, as the first few moves were more of the set-up for the payoff, really. You made the minion's simplistic pattern of chasing for 4 seconds before sitting in place and firing as a turret for 4 seconds work surprisingly well for how basic and predictable that is. Ulrich often just benefits from the minion dying by stupidly killing itself off the ledge, so they can't attack its HP to hurt Ulrich. The set-ups get pretty elaborate with delaying and playing off of projectiles that go through the blood puppet at X point, particularly with that great fthrow.
I was personally already questioning the balance a bit of having a minion that hurts you when the foe attacks it. Yes, it offers tons of versatility to his set-ups, but you have to get there in the first place. If this set wasn't as aware as it was about that with offering lots of alternative options to get projectiles into your puppet and play off of it in the ways that it is, this set wouldn't be nearly as well designed as it is. You really do have a mountain to overcome here, and you do a good job of justifying the downsides of the blood puppet. Obviously you can just make the foe take the damage from the blood puppet anyway, but that's not a guarantee.
The grab-game was probably my favorite part of the set when all is said and done. Ulrich always want to play around with the space close to his puppet to get the various set-ups he wants and have the puppet be able to help him in neutral, so it's pretty reasonable for him to find some time to pump blood to use for later. The fthrow is still my favorite with the potential for delayed explosions when used on the puppet/pumped blood, but the dthrow provides a lot of utility, with the wings making it so the puppet can't be casually killed off-stage to get rid of the problem when it's bound to the foe, and the cannon boosting the bullet hell aspect. The bthrow's effect is pretty important too when you're going to find yourself doing pumping the puppet so often to help better defend yourself, without going through the lengthier cargo fthrow animation. The uthrow, as simple as it is by letting him directly leech off the puppet, is very needed to help heal the piles of damage he will have inevitably taken from the blood puppet's existence.
Overall, quite the enjoyable set. The last section with the aerials failed to grab me as much, most particularly with the nair that basically says his melee is bad and he needs a better catch all move for that and the uair which is basically a kill move, which he doesn't seem to be lacking in. I wasn't sold on his other aerials being that bad to begin with, and the bair and dair were pretty well designed and used well with the Up Special. His melee game when he's not being pulled along by the Up Special isn't interesting, but it's fairly important the guy isn't helpless without set-up context. Not exactly the biggest crime you could've committed.
This set was advertised as the frontrunner that was most obviously my style, and it delivers with very direct minion/trap interactions with the puddle and blood puppet. The primary core I felt was the ftilt and the smashes that more made up the core of his game, as the first few moves were more of the set-up for the payoff, really. You made the minion's simplistic pattern of chasing for 4 seconds before sitting in place and firing as a turret for 4 seconds work surprisingly well for how basic and predictable that is. Ulrich often just benefits from the minion dying by stupidly killing itself off the ledge, so they can't attack its HP to hurt Ulrich. The set-ups get pretty elaborate with delaying and playing off of projectiles that go through the blood puppet at X point, particularly with that great fthrow.
I was personally already questioning the balance a bit of having a minion that hurts you when the foe attacks it. Yes, it offers tons of versatility to his set-ups, but you have to get there in the first place. If this set wasn't as aware as it was about that with offering lots of alternative options to get projectiles into your puppet and play off of it in the ways that it is, this set wouldn't be nearly as well designed as it is. You really do have a mountain to overcome here, and you do a good job of justifying the downsides of the blood puppet. Obviously you can just make the foe take the damage from the blood puppet anyway, but that's not a guarantee.
The grab-game was probably my favorite part of the set when all is said and done. Ulrich always want to play around with the space close to his puppet to get the various set-ups he wants and have the puppet be able to help him in neutral, so it's pretty reasonable for him to find some time to pump blood to use for later. The fthrow is still my favorite with the potential for delayed explosions when used on the puppet/pumped blood, but the dthrow provides a lot of utility, with the wings making it so the puppet can't be casually killed off-stage to get rid of the problem when it's bound to the foe, and the cannon boosting the bullet hell aspect. The bthrow's effect is pretty important too when you're going to find yourself doing pumping the puppet so often to help better defend yourself, without going through the lengthier cargo fthrow animation. The uthrow, as simple as it is by letting him directly leech off the puppet, is very needed to help heal the piles of damage he will have inevitably taken from the blood puppet's existence.
Overall, quite the enjoyable set. The last section with the aerials failed to grab me as much, most particularly with the nair that basically says his melee is bad and he needs a better catch all move for that and the uair which is basically a kill move, which he doesn't seem to be lacking in. I wasn't sold on his other aerials being that bad to begin with, and the bair and dair were pretty well designed and used well with the Up Special. His melee game when he's not being pulled along by the Up Special isn't interesting, but it's fairly important the guy isn't helpless without set-up context. Not exactly the biggest crime you could've committed.
I read Alolan Golem in part a while back and just got back to it, shame I didn't finish it earlier as it's a pretty cool set. The set's main appeal is the characterization, as I've come to expect of your unique style, Alolan Golem largely is the king of the Geodude line who references the whole collection. It reminds me of some MUGEN sets that have a mass amount of summons, though this set does the smart thing of putting it all on one input so it's not taking away from the set's melee. This is a long established concept in Make Your Move by now, but it's still impressive. The core minion and electrical charge make for a nice foundation, and the set doesn't lack any of the expected coolness of Golem rolling around in the aerials or smashes, though I feel this part of the set could be a little stronger.
As in Sucy, I did feel like this set got a bit carried away with going over the changes of the electrical charge rather than focusing on each individual move. Some of these moves don't get the necessary attention as you go over what are many times unnecessary additions or changing the move so much, it feels like two fairly generic moves over one that really shines. In general the charge mechanic, like Sucy's mushrooms, feels like it would be better suited as a universal mechanic. Really if you just focused on Golem rolling around in his muck and zapping things, squeezing all you could out of these simple iconic Golem concepts, you'd have a stronger set. Nonetheless, a good set and glad to see you contributing again Slavic, hope to see more!
As in Sucy, I did feel like this set got a bit carried away with going over the changes of the electrical charge rather than focusing on each individual move. Some of these moves don't get the necessary attention as you go over what are many times unnecessary additions or changing the move so much, it feels like two fairly generic moves over one that really shines. In general the charge mechanic, like Sucy's mushrooms, feels like it would be better suited as a universal mechanic. Really if you just focused on Golem rolling around in his muck and zapping things, squeezing all you could out of these simple iconic Golem concepts, you'd have a stronger set. Nonetheless, a good set and glad to see you contributing again Slavic, hope to see more!
Aloha, Golem!
You'll remember I started reading this a loooong time ago, then I kinda dropped out and now I am back to finish it!
First off, gotta say, holy redundancy Batman on the first paragraph of Down Special! It says in no less than three ways that, yes, Alolan Golem can in fact hold the pose as long as he wants. Maybe trim some of the fat there. Also, minor typo in Side Special: "Don’t expect this kind of standard damaging hit for opponents, however, because Spark’s primary function is as a commamd grab". Also, why the hell is the aerial explosion the strongest version in damage? And the fact it deals an obscene 52% damage yet only KOs at 130% feels off. I feel like the damage should be massively reduced, perhaps with a subsequent reduction of starting lag? Also a "Boulders and Geidudes have the same function here as before, though more versatile thanks to the movement." typo in F-Throw.
Leaving aside some nitpicky complaints there, I would say that I enjoyed Alolan Golem overall, though it is not without its flaws. I thought Side Special was really fun as a command dash-grab that can do some tricky stuff with his boulders and boulder-dudes as well. The actual boulder/Geodudes shots are interesting and they feel pretty fresh for a "bouldets" set by virtue of not using boulder mechanics and focusing on some electromagnetism instead. Up Smash is a move that stuck out to me as very fun, with this cool use of a cone attack combined with a lot of various interactions with the state of your Rock Blast charge, a concept the set toys around with akin to MYM15's Bashmaster and my own Aqua Fortis (though not to the same degree as either of those sets). I also felt Forward Smash was fun and I liked how Forward Tilt combined with some other aerials and Rock Blast gave Alolan Golem a rather interesting set of ledge/gimping options to go along with the rest of his game and gave him some more depth. Basing it around the kind of "soccer style" minion spiking as a threat was a unique enough way to go about it given the delayed nature of the Geodudes that was executed in a solid manner.
I am sure some people will be concerned about the amount of "stun" in this set, I mean I am known as one of the most anti-stun people here, but the majority of stun here is so short it feels more like extended hitstun with a fancy moniker. Because of that I really didn't have much of a problem with it: Any of the longer stuns are difficult to hit or situational and never go even to a second of stun so I would say I am largely chill about it here (although it did mean I kept my eye out rather close for what he could do!).
This set is not without flaws. I thought the grab game was weak, largely in Back Throw and Down Throw. Back Throw in particular feels completely redundant with every other throw almost by design, becoming a total waste. I can think of an easy way to potentiall fix this: Make it a move that hits the opponent at a particularly low angle, potentially allowing tech chases and giving him a good throwing option into properly set up boulders or geodudes near low level. And being able to set up boulders/geodudes right can also make the tech chasing game better. It would even offer up some other options to throw the boulders/Geodudes around!
Down Throw for reload is fine but the psuedo-Cargo Throw thing feels kind of odd and I don't really like how the throw seems to just be an alternative pummel if you have charged up a Rock Blast. This is especially true because Alolan Golem should probably be getting some level of Rock Blast charge when he can and thus Down Throw is usually messed up. Not sure what you could do with boulder-level charge here, but maybe Geodude-level charge could shoot the foe out with the Geodude attached? Maybe the Geodude doesn't become active until the throw's hitstun ends if worried about balance.
Speaking of balance, one other issue I had with this set is that Explosion felt very seesaw-y and in turn rather out of place in the overall Alolan Golem gameplan. The move is naturally incredibly powerful but essentially impossible to hit with, I feel like the aerial versions should be less powerful (especially since they lack recoil) as mentioned but be easier to utilize in terms of lag or something, especially considering the recovery aspect. I also do feel there were some spots not as crisp and good as the rest of the set, like the Jab and Down Aerial feeling rather "there", with Jab feeling kinda below average really for example.
For the most part, though, Alolan Golem is good! I could see it moving up my list if you fixed up some of the problems, particularly the throws, but it feels like a rock solid part of my votelist at least either way. Here's hopin' we see more Slavic sets out! Even if you have lost your doctoriate.
You'll remember I started reading this a loooong time ago, then I kinda dropped out and now I am back to finish it!
First off, gotta say, holy redundancy Batman on the first paragraph of Down Special! It says in no less than three ways that, yes, Alolan Golem can in fact hold the pose as long as he wants. Maybe trim some of the fat there. Also, minor typo in Side Special: "Don’t expect this kind of standard damaging hit for opponents, however, because Spark’s primary function is as a commamd grab". Also, why the hell is the aerial explosion the strongest version in damage? And the fact it deals an obscene 52% damage yet only KOs at 130% feels off. I feel like the damage should be massively reduced, perhaps with a subsequent reduction of starting lag? Also a "Boulders and Geidudes have the same function here as before, though more versatile thanks to the movement." typo in F-Throw.
Leaving aside some nitpicky complaints there, I would say that I enjoyed Alolan Golem overall, though it is not without its flaws. I thought Side Special was really fun as a command dash-grab that can do some tricky stuff with his boulders and boulder-dudes as well. The actual boulder/Geodudes shots are interesting and they feel pretty fresh for a "bouldets" set by virtue of not using boulder mechanics and focusing on some electromagnetism instead. Up Smash is a move that stuck out to me as very fun, with this cool use of a cone attack combined with a lot of various interactions with the state of your Rock Blast charge, a concept the set toys around with akin to MYM15's Bashmaster and my own Aqua Fortis (though not to the same degree as either of those sets). I also felt Forward Smash was fun and I liked how Forward Tilt combined with some other aerials and Rock Blast gave Alolan Golem a rather interesting set of ledge/gimping options to go along with the rest of his game and gave him some more depth. Basing it around the kind of "soccer style" minion spiking as a threat was a unique enough way to go about it given the delayed nature of the Geodudes that was executed in a solid manner.
I am sure some people will be concerned about the amount of "stun" in this set, I mean I am known as one of the most anti-stun people here, but the majority of stun here is so short it feels more like extended hitstun with a fancy moniker. Because of that I really didn't have much of a problem with it: Any of the longer stuns are difficult to hit or situational and never go even to a second of stun so I would say I am largely chill about it here (although it did mean I kept my eye out rather close for what he could do!).
This set is not without flaws. I thought the grab game was weak, largely in Back Throw and Down Throw. Back Throw in particular feels completely redundant with every other throw almost by design, becoming a total waste. I can think of an easy way to potentiall fix this: Make it a move that hits the opponent at a particularly low angle, potentially allowing tech chases and giving him a good throwing option into properly set up boulders or geodudes near low level. And being able to set up boulders/geodudes right can also make the tech chasing game better. It would even offer up some other options to throw the boulders/Geodudes around!
Down Throw for reload is fine but the psuedo-Cargo Throw thing feels kind of odd and I don't really like how the throw seems to just be an alternative pummel if you have charged up a Rock Blast. This is especially true because Alolan Golem should probably be getting some level of Rock Blast charge when he can and thus Down Throw is usually messed up. Not sure what you could do with boulder-level charge here, but maybe Geodude-level charge could shoot the foe out with the Geodude attached? Maybe the Geodude doesn't become active until the throw's hitstun ends if worried about balance.
Speaking of balance, one other issue I had with this set is that Explosion felt very seesaw-y and in turn rather out of place in the overall Alolan Golem gameplan. The move is naturally incredibly powerful but essentially impossible to hit with, I feel like the aerial versions should be less powerful (especially since they lack recoil) as mentioned but be easier to utilize in terms of lag or something, especially considering the recovery aspect. I also do feel there were some spots not as crisp and good as the rest of the set, like the Jab and Down Aerial feeling rather "there", with Jab feeling kinda below average really for example.
For the most part, though, Alolan Golem is good! I could see it moving up my list if you fixed up some of the problems, particularly the throws, but it feels like a rock solid part of my votelist at least either way. Here's hopin' we see more Slavic sets out! Even if you have lost your doctoriate.
Collectathons Are Dead
3/10
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@GolisoPower's Dehaka immediately opens with a rather problematic mechanic. I understand what you're going for with Essence, but as written it simply does not work. Attack Speed is a case-by-case basis for every move in the game, so if anything Dehaka would gain Mac's ground speed. Not that it really matters, since Essence is only gained by landing a laggy command grab past 100% and is lost when Dehaka is killed. Unless he's absolutely dominating a match, chances are he won't live long enough to really enjoy his Essence before it's stripped from him. The 7% heal is almost comically underwhelming compared to the instant kill and Essence granted by the same move, and honestly feels nearly worthless. Essence ISN'T an inherently bad idea, per se, but I feel it could've been executed better. Perhaps simply have the already laggy and low-ranged command grab not kill, but ALWAYS grant an Essence? If you did that, you could then have Essence expire after X seconds so Dehaka doesn't get to casually get absurd stats, but this simultaneously makes Essence more of an actual entity in a match. As it stands Essence might as well not even exist. On to the rest of the set, NSpec has an unfinished sentence at the end of it. USpec contradicts the apparent implication that NSpec is hard to land by casually informing us that it's easy to Devour a foe he lands on using Leap; it also operates under the notion that 9 frames is a long time, which simply isn't the case. DSpec inflicts a positively NASTY status effect for a ludicrous 15 seconds, farrr too long for its low lag on either side, and especially too much since the move has no cooldown on its use. Bizarrely, the move warns us to be cautious of these stat changes, as they affect Essence... when the Essence mechanic explicitly states that stat changes do not affect Essences gained. Either this one specific move is an exception (which is not good for consistency) or you simply forgot, which, either way, is an easy fix. Dehaka's standards are fairly straightforward (with Jab being unfinished)... but Down Tilt. Down Tilt is ABSOLUTELY the incorrect place to put a non-attack that grants 5 seconds of total invulnerability. Invulnerability that doesn't even explicitly ban you from attacking, I might add, and doesn't even have a written method of canceling it early. This should be a Special, and frankly a free 5 seconds of invulnerability with no drawback outside of momentary lag is obscene and probably shouldn't be a thing at all. The remainder of the set is generally harmless and inoffensive, though the logistics of BThrow baffle me. I cannot fathom exactly how Bthrow animates, much less how the dragging works. Dehaka isn't AWFUL, but there are quite a few major issues that I believe you can remedy with some editing. Even fixing how Essence works would vastly improve the set's quality, honestly.
@GolisoPower Dehaka has a strange lack of information when it starts off so well in the statistics listing every single stat so thoroughly, then fails to explain the neutral special. The move ends on a broken sentence and the mechanic really could've been explained in the neutral special too, given that's all self-contained in the move. It doesn't go far enough explaining how the "essence" works. A character-by-character move like this, similar to Kirby's, would make sense to just leave vague. In this case this sounds more statistical, like he gains a floatier fall speed when he absorbs Jigglypuff or Sonic's dash speed. When you're so adept at stats why not list some logical formula for all this? Like for example finding the "best" stat (creating a way the game figures this out) then using an average to give that stat for Dehaka. I would make it an average too, because just gaining Sonic's speed is pretty ridiculous and would look weird even when Dehaka is randomly an extremely fast runner. Sonic's dash speed would just look glitchy on a guy this big, and that's just one example where it'd feel weird. It would help too having a visual indicator like Shulk's Monado Arts telling the players what's going on, even if it's an icon of the foe absorbed or in the HUD somewhere.
The other problem I have is how this move just KOs foes at 100%. I've done similar mechanics, but I used weight to give a fairer percent. On a super heavy like Bowser, this is ridiculously broken, but on a lightweight, it kind of sucks. I'd instead make it work on say, Jigglypuff around 70%, and Bowser around 130% just as a quick example. I also think for a central mechanic like this, forcing you to land a KO grab to use a mechanic means the mechanic might never be used in a competently played match. You could take a small liberty just letting him take the essence without directly killing the foe, just for the sake of balance. Maybe just limit it to a duration and make it permanent if you land the KO version. As is it's very imbalanced and feels unintuitive for a new player trying to play Dehaka.
There was another move I felt should honestly just be changed outright, the down tilt. This is not a good fit for down tilt at all and just feels awkward. You basically stall the match using this move, for 5 seconds. The down special is too powerful too, a 75% movement decrease just going by the speeds on Kurogane Hammer would reduce Sonic's run speed from 3.5 to the slowest in the game, below even Robin, for 15 seconds, and even the attack speed decrease of 25% is a big deal too. If they were both very short durations, or a much lower decrease (especially the movement speed one) it'd work a lot better.
It's hard to fairly analyze the set when all those moves and mechanics are around, not adequately explained or balanced. Once those things are fixed I can properly look at the rest because it's pretty broken at the moment. Sorry to be so negative, the basic concept isn't bad, but it needs a lot of work.
The other problem I have is how this move just KOs foes at 100%. I've done similar mechanics, but I used weight to give a fairer percent. On a super heavy like Bowser, this is ridiculously broken, but on a lightweight, it kind of sucks. I'd instead make it work on say, Jigglypuff around 70%, and Bowser around 130% just as a quick example. I also think for a central mechanic like this, forcing you to land a KO grab to use a mechanic means the mechanic might never be used in a competently played match. You could take a small liberty just letting him take the essence without directly killing the foe, just for the sake of balance. Maybe just limit it to a duration and make it permanent if you land the KO version. As is it's very imbalanced and feels unintuitive for a new player trying to play Dehaka.
There was another move I felt should honestly just be changed outright, the down tilt. This is not a good fit for down tilt at all and just feels awkward. You basically stall the match using this move, for 5 seconds. The down special is too powerful too, a 75% movement decrease just going by the speeds on Kurogane Hammer would reduce Sonic's run speed from 3.5 to the slowest in the game, below even Robin, for 15 seconds, and even the attack speed decrease of 25% is a big deal too. If they were both very short durations, or a much lower decrease (especially the movement speed one) it'd work a lot better.
It's hard to fairly analyze the set when all those moves and mechanics are around, not adequately explained or balanced. Once those things are fixed I can properly look at the rest because it's pretty broken at the moment. Sorry to be so negative, the basic concept isn't bad, but it needs a lot of work.
What Smash Daddy said. You actually have a great idea with the command grab getting the best attributes of the opponent. It's an idea that I haven't seen since older movesets like Videoman.EXE and TAC. You made a great translation of the heavyweight monster idea into Smash. It just needed detail and character. Also, the only way to improve is from feedback, so don't be discouraged. Bad feedback and good feedback both mean that someone took the time to read and comment your moveset.
Altais
Late to this one too, but finally read Revali. We rarely get an archer set, one of the only ones I can think of is Drow Ranger and I'm not sure that had as much of a focus on the bow and arrows. Revali's main playstyle mechanic is somewhat like Incineroar's Revenge just revealed in Smash Ultimate, a Counter that works against projectiles as well as melee moves. This lets Revali outcamp other long range projectiles. The side special, Wind Dive, is fairly important too besides the reflector interaction as it lets Revali cover ground and get past foes that get in close. The base of the set is one of your strongest as all the specials fulfil an important role, in a very self aware and intelligent approach.The set doesn’t spare the projectiles as you’d expect out of an archer as all the smashes are dedicated to different ammo for the bow. This is good overall, the one I was least sure on was down smash. It’s just a bit of a challenge to play as a character that hasn’t got a good “get off me” smash, some characters do already have smashes that don’t hit behind them but usually they’re very strong or consistently hit a huge area in front of them to make sure no one can dodge if they’re there. The fsmash and usmash however I thought worked well on those inputs and there’s already plenty of characters who have projectile smashes.
The rest of the set is a surprising mix of Falco’s melee (of course) with Revali’s talons, and in the grab game reminds me somewhat of Robin. As Robin’s uses the Elwind tome and Falco I don’t think I have go over his similarities to Revali, it all feels very logical to use for inspiration. I do feel that Revali is on the underpowered side what with only his bair being a reliable melee KO move, and he doesn’t have a KO throw. When he’s so reliant on projectiles too he might get stone walled by characters that have a reflector or absorber, in spite of his anti-reflector move as that still has to connect to be useful. It surely wouldn’t hurt to have a few more direct KO moves here and there. The throws could’ve had a little more to them as well.
The main issue I have with the set balance wise is some of these moves that deal a very low amount of damage. For example the uair only deals 3% using a wind projectile hitbox, and compares itself to G&W's move. However G&W's uair deals 7%/9% depending on the exact hitbox, and in Smash Ultimate it creates a projectile on top of that. The fair is similarly underpowered dealing only 2% and the gust deals no damage. It'd be okay if he had one or two moves that were very fast and dealt little damage to compensate, like Ness' dtilt that deals 4% or 2%. Moves like uair, fair and ftilt don't seem impressively fast to make up for their tiny damage percents.
Outside of balance complaints this set was simple and effective in my opinion, and one of your stronger sets. I quite liked what Dante turned into and Gunvolt was improved too, but this set really feels like you were conscious of the playstyle all the way through. Besides the throws and a general underpowered balance, and maybe the dsmash, the set doesn’t have too much to complain about. Very nice work here.
Altais A comment for you on Revali:
I'm commenting another of your sets Altais Altais ! I like Revali much more than Rex personally-- he seems a lot more simple, manageable, and clean. I like Wind Dive a lot personally, a dash that can cover almost a whole stage that deals damage and you can deal some decent damage with it too. I would recommend the move's speed being reduced and the ability to jump or attack out of it though, otherwise the move seems very easy to SD with but also a bit too powerful. This is also just a personal issue and I understand there wasn't a whole lot to work with, but I poopoo counters.
I'm curious about Ftilt's endlag, that would determine if it's balanced or not since a projectile that only deals 3.5% and can't be charged is pretty weak, but it does give Revali access to a quick projectile with decent hitstun so it can't be entirely useless. Jab, U-Tilt and Dash attack are all okay, giving Revali a much needed way to react to an opponent close to him. I particularly enjoy D-tilt as it is both a funny animation and a good way to deal with shield pressure.
Ice Arrows being anglable would be fine IFyou can only angle at the start of the move, otherwise I feel it isn't that punishable from far away-- you'd need to shield or get lucky with an air dodge to not get hit, both of which are pretty bad for the opposition. I also don't fully understand Thunder Arrow's travel speed, wouldn't increased height and speed be bad for the move considering it's main use is to hit people with the falling arrow? I feel like it going higher would take more time for it to fall down.
I personally don't agree with Revali's some of aerials dealing no damage-- they should probably all function like U-Air where they deal a windbox and damage. Without that, Revali really has no response to being pressured while in the air and considering how often he's going to be up there, that's an issue. I do really love the animations for these attacks though-- and the windboxes as well, just wish they did some damage.
Finally, the grabs are… just Robin's. While I appreciate the pun, I would like some more originality in the throws, but including what you can follow up with is definitely appreciated.
Over all, it's a decent set and Side B, when combined with Revali's solid projectiles and multi jumps, is a really fun move. I eagerly await your next moveset, sir!
I'm commenting another of your sets Altais Altais ! I like Revali much more than Rex personally-- he seems a lot more simple, manageable, and clean. I like Wind Dive a lot personally, a dash that can cover almost a whole stage that deals damage and you can deal some decent damage with it too. I would recommend the move's speed being reduced and the ability to jump or attack out of it though, otherwise the move seems very easy to SD with but also a bit too powerful. This is also just a personal issue and I understand there wasn't a whole lot to work with, but I poopoo counters.
I'm curious about Ftilt's endlag, that would determine if it's balanced or not since a projectile that only deals 3.5% and can't be charged is pretty weak, but it does give Revali access to a quick projectile with decent hitstun so it can't be entirely useless. Jab, U-Tilt and Dash attack are all okay, giving Revali a much needed way to react to an opponent close to him. I particularly enjoy D-tilt as it is both a funny animation and a good way to deal with shield pressure.
Ice Arrows being anglable would be fine IFyou can only angle at the start of the move, otherwise I feel it isn't that punishable from far away-- you'd need to shield or get lucky with an air dodge to not get hit, both of which are pretty bad for the opposition. I also don't fully understand Thunder Arrow's travel speed, wouldn't increased height and speed be bad for the move considering it's main use is to hit people with the falling arrow? I feel like it going higher would take more time for it to fall down.
I personally don't agree with Revali's some of aerials dealing no damage-- they should probably all function like U-Air where they deal a windbox and damage. Without that, Revali really has no response to being pressured while in the air and considering how often he's going to be up there, that's an issue. I do really love the animations for these attacks though-- and the windboxes as well, just wish they did some damage.
Finally, the grabs are… just Robin's. While I appreciate the pun, I would like some more originality in the throws, but including what you can follow up with is definitely appreciated.
Over all, it's a decent set and Side B, when combined with Revali's solid projectiles and multi jumps, is a really fun move. I eagerly await your next moveset, sir!
Diet Kass
First of all, thanks for adding another set to the Breath of the Wild collection of MYM21! You really embraced the source material by pulling from even the nookiest of crannies, such as a Keese-inspired Dash Attack and the Up Smash being a dead ringer for one of the Lynel's attacks. On top of that, you really made Revali dance in my mind, with his attitude elevating himself above the battlefield on the ground through the non-chalance of his walk animations and moves like Up Air, before turning into the cocky try-hard we know as soon as his talons feel fresh air. I'm immensively impressed with the character put into the set and the references put into it. I really like these authors notes/fun facts about the game throughout the set, and I think you should embrace them as part of your writing style.
The writing is good, it's to the point compared to MYM sets, which makes it easy to read and aside from a few qualms, such as the overuse of the word "ergo" it's easily readable,
Gameplay-wise, the set is quite basic compared to the behemoths MYM usually has, and would fit very well in the Smash series itself. A move serves a purpose and together that forms a playstyle, with very little gimmicks whatsoever.
That's a bit of a shame. The Smashes, especially Up Smash, are incredibly creative and fit in with multiple parts of the set, affecting both ground game and gimping and they show you can handle much more than the bread-and-butter inputs present in the rest of the set, with the Specials being, well, less special than the Smashes.
One big flaw in the set is how everything is assigned a use and moves have little depth beyond that use, because you specifically balanced that move to be only good at that one thing. In the big picture, Revali is tailored to be specifically good at gimping, which can be done with a few moves, but then the rest is made quite underwhelming.
Wind Dive is the best example of this. Wind Dive, simply put, is bad balance-wise. Quick Draw isn't a great move already balance-wise, and Wind Dive has one specific use, but due to the endlag and startup it not only barely accomplishes this one reflector-busting niche, but the faceplanting also makes sure the move has no other uses beyond that. Artificially limiting the tool-kit makes Revali feel very one-dimensional and underpowered, especially since zoner characters already tending to be "press B the character"
Revali in itself is a victim of this, with his kit being made for gimping (although having a below average Up B with less than stellar height and no hitbox is a weird decision, especially since Greninja's Up B windbox can create situations that would fit very tightly in Revali's gimping schtick) and his kit being then deliberately underbalanced to make sure that's his only method of winning, between his Up Air not killing and Back Air having low range for a killing move.
It would've been nice for Revali to have some horiztonal combos or walling tools (like, make his Forward Air busted), that not only push the opponents towards the blast zone, but would also be good damage rackers of themselves. Instead, this set dictates for the player what move should be used in each situation and on what distance.
Neutral Air, Forward Air, Up Smash and potentionally Down Smash, depending on the height, reach and lingering of the residual flames, are good moves because they present a move and the player itself can fill in its use. The moveset can push the player in the right direction by giving tips and preferred uses, but moves im general should have multiple uses, such as Up Smash being a vertical pillar, protective barrier or sniping tool depending on the player.
(I really love Up Smash. The required precision fits both the playstyle and the character, it's an attack straight from BoTW and ties into multiple of Revali's moves and facets)
Grab tying in with these different arrows is another example of a multi-layered move. Going in, I feared the throws would be underwhelming to get the point across that Revali "shouldn't" grab or that it would be a shield-buster at best, but you surprised me with a few combo throws.
Overall, it's a strong set with a strong premise, amazing character, clear writing style and fun moves, including an Up Smash that's better than anything I'll ever write, that's only plagued by mediocre balancing and one-dimensionality at times and despite my comment dwelling on the downsides, I'd give your set a solid 7 out of 10.
First of all, thanks for adding another set to the Breath of the Wild collection of MYM21! You really embraced the source material by pulling from even the nookiest of crannies, such as a Keese-inspired Dash Attack and the Up Smash being a dead ringer for one of the Lynel's attacks. On top of that, you really made Revali dance in my mind, with his attitude elevating himself above the battlefield on the ground through the non-chalance of his walk animations and moves like Up Air, before turning into the cocky try-hard we know as soon as his talons feel fresh air. I'm immensively impressed with the character put into the set and the references put into it. I really like these authors notes/fun facts about the game throughout the set, and I think you should embrace them as part of your writing style.
The writing is good, it's to the point compared to MYM sets, which makes it easy to read and aside from a few qualms, such as the overuse of the word "ergo" it's easily readable,
Gameplay-wise, the set is quite basic compared to the behemoths MYM usually has, and would fit very well in the Smash series itself. A move serves a purpose and together that forms a playstyle, with very little gimmicks whatsoever.
That's a bit of a shame. The Smashes, especially Up Smash, are incredibly creative and fit in with multiple parts of the set, affecting both ground game and gimping and they show you can handle much more than the bread-and-butter inputs present in the rest of the set, with the Specials being, well, less special than the Smashes.
One big flaw in the set is how everything is assigned a use and moves have little depth beyond that use, because you specifically balanced that move to be only good at that one thing. In the big picture, Revali is tailored to be specifically good at gimping, which can be done with a few moves, but then the rest is made quite underwhelming.
Wind Dive is the best example of this. Wind Dive, simply put, is bad balance-wise. Quick Draw isn't a great move already balance-wise, and Wind Dive has one specific use, but due to the endlag and startup it not only barely accomplishes this one reflector-busting niche, but the faceplanting also makes sure the move has no other uses beyond that. Artificially limiting the tool-kit makes Revali feel very one-dimensional and underpowered, especially since zoner characters already tending to be "press B the character"
Revali in itself is a victim of this, with his kit being made for gimping (although having a below average Up B with less than stellar height and no hitbox is a weird decision, especially since Greninja's Up B windbox can create situations that would fit very tightly in Revali's gimping schtick) and his kit being then deliberately underbalanced to make sure that's his only method of winning, between his Up Air not killing and Back Air having low range for a killing move.
It would've been nice for Revali to have some horiztonal combos or walling tools (like, make his Forward Air busted), that not only push the opponents towards the blast zone, but would also be good damage rackers of themselves. Instead, this set dictates for the player what move should be used in each situation and on what distance.
Neutral Air, Forward Air, Up Smash and potentionally Down Smash, depending on the height, reach and lingering of the residual flames, are good moves because they present a move and the player itself can fill in its use. The moveset can push the player in the right direction by giving tips and preferred uses, but moves im general should have multiple uses, such as Up Smash being a vertical pillar, protective barrier or sniping tool depending on the player.
(I really love Up Smash. The required precision fits both the playstyle and the character, it's an attack straight from BoTW and ties into multiple of Revali's moves and facets)
Grab tying in with these different arrows is another example of a multi-layered move. Going in, I feared the throws would be underwhelming to get the point across that Revali "shouldn't" grab or that it would be a shield-buster at best, but you surprised me with a few combo throws.
Overall, it's a strong set with a strong premise, amazing character, clear writing style and fun moves, including an Up Smash that's better than anything I'll ever write, that's only plagued by mediocre balancing and one-dimensionality at times and despite my comment dwelling on the downsides, I'd give your set a solid 7 out of 10.
Time for some more extremely late and unnecessary feedback on a set I'm sure is still relevant so long after release, BotW Link. I'll get to your far more important moveset, R&P, one of these days I assure you. This set is largely what you'd expect out of BotW Link; breaking the sword for more damage, multiple weapons, and a decent amount of incorporation of other Zelda traditions. These signature attacks can feel a little wonky like the fair lunging slash, just a little wonky mind you, most of the time it was done pretty well like the nair and the shield moves on ftilt and bair feel logical. It helps in the latter case you have a multihit jab, though I think his standards are a bit awkward generally. He has a utilt that I assume has very little if any range in front, a dtilt that hits behind (?) and ftilt obviously is more of a defensive move, not like his jab is making up for all those, but it's more of a nitpick.
I honestly felt like the set was a little too plain in how it executed the throws and moves like fsmash/dsmash, particularly the dsmash when it's the big flashy chainsaw move in the set. Not asking for any complex gimmick here, just for more of a description of the hitbox, range, the animation at least could be interesting. Come on, Link using a chainsaw? That should be an exciting move. The fsmash was a lot more interesting than the other two smashes, and generally I liked the spear's usage in this and moves like dthrow as the weapon saved for the most important moves requiring massive power. It's nothing mind blowing, but it's a nice inventive use of inputs.
Unrelated tangent: this set is definitely helped by your illustrations, I was a little worried if I had to be that guy and criticize your drawings, but I never found them confusing. It's good to see you've developed this uniquely quip-y style even in a set like this one, it's a unique brand of humour in Make Your Move where everyone's usually all self-referential.
Mostly I like a selection of moves here like the fsmash, fair, nair that tend to emphasize the strong animation of the move best. I wasn't sure if you needed Daruk's perfect shield mechanic, and you could've done more with the weapon breaking period. It seems to me a lot of almost entirely positive mechanics with no real downside piled on top of one another, though kept balanced because the set has some awkward moves. This awkwardness includes using his shield on important inputs like bair and ftilt sacrificing their utility for defence, and has moves that rely on tippers, weapon breaking or projectiles for his best KO moves. It's not like it's non-functional without these gimmicks, but it seems like a weird combination of moves, probably not helped by the weapon switching. Kind of weird too he only takes out the boomerang and chainsaw a couple times.
The set might've been better if he had some sort of Fruits-esque selection special where he brings out some of these weapons, maybe throw them on the side special? The Magic Rods aren't super relevant either, though it's not like they're bad. I'm keenly aware I overuse the term "cohesiveness" but I do feel it's relevant to say here that this set could be more cohesive one way or another. It's a good set don't get me wrong, just on the messy side and might be clunky in practice. Nonetheless, good work here and as I've said already I'll get to your important set(s) as soon as I can.
I honestly felt like the set was a little too plain in how it executed the throws and moves like fsmash/dsmash, particularly the dsmash when it's the big flashy chainsaw move in the set. Not asking for any complex gimmick here, just for more of a description of the hitbox, range, the animation at least could be interesting. Come on, Link using a chainsaw? That should be an exciting move. The fsmash was a lot more interesting than the other two smashes, and generally I liked the spear's usage in this and moves like dthrow as the weapon saved for the most important moves requiring massive power. It's nothing mind blowing, but it's a nice inventive use of inputs.
Unrelated tangent: this set is definitely helped by your illustrations, I was a little worried if I had to be that guy and criticize your drawings, but I never found them confusing. It's good to see you've developed this uniquely quip-y style even in a set like this one, it's a unique brand of humour in Make Your Move where everyone's usually all self-referential.
Mostly I like a selection of moves here like the fsmash, fair, nair that tend to emphasize the strong animation of the move best. I wasn't sure if you needed Daruk's perfect shield mechanic, and you could've done more with the weapon breaking period. It seems to me a lot of almost entirely positive mechanics with no real downside piled on top of one another, though kept balanced because the set has some awkward moves. This awkwardness includes using his shield on important inputs like bair and ftilt sacrificing their utility for defence, and has moves that rely on tippers, weapon breaking or projectiles for his best KO moves. It's not like it's non-functional without these gimmicks, but it seems like a weird combination of moves, probably not helped by the weapon switching. Kind of weird too he only takes out the boomerang and chainsaw a couple times.
The set might've been better if he had some sort of Fruits-esque selection special where he brings out some of these weapons, maybe throw them on the side special? The Magic Rods aren't super relevant either, though it's not like they're bad. I'm keenly aware I overuse the term "cohesiveness" but I do feel it's relevant to say here that this set could be more cohesive one way or another. It's a good set don't get me wrong, just on the messy side and might be clunky in practice. Nonetheless, good work here and as I've said already I'll get to your important set(s) as soon as I can.
What do you call a Link set by Muno? Linkling Splatoon
The Link of The Wild set has been commented on in the past by others and I know not even Muno is waiting for comments on this set, but slap Breath of the Wild on something and I'm more convinced fo read, although my next comment will probably be for mUNO (aka Paper Mario: Color Splash aka Cards Against The Humanity That Made The Originals So Good)
That said, Link is as experimental as some Breath of the Wild runs and not always to great effect. While the base set stands on its own as a slightly unorthodox, yet workable core, it's a bland set.
Changing weapons for Dash Attack for example is a cool mechanic, if not for the fact it feels gimmicky and is executed in only one move. While Robin's similar mechanic covers the same variety of moves, it's only affected by specials and ties into his main mechanic.
The Perfect Shield summoning Daruk is a nice touch, but one that feels a bit overtuned. One second of stun is powerful and it doesn't come back in the set enough that would justify this powerful mechanic as anything more than an afterthought in the quest for more Champion's Abilities.
Similar one-off abilities are the climbing and the Rods' gimmicks. I can't really judge if the Rods' mechanics is supposed to be a core to his playstyle or a fun move, this set would've been better with a playstyle section.
Something that does elevate itself above the gimmick-for-the-sake-of-one is the Revali's Gale Jump. Tying into multiple aerials, his poor disadvantage state and one of his specials, it's a nice ability that feels natural.
For the rest, this set is like Breath of the Wild, in that I'm struggling to find a specific playstyle that would tie the mechanics and gimmicks of this set together into a cohesive gameplan. The Hylian trample shield being featured in some key inputs, to the point where his ground game is quite awkward to go on the offensive with, make me lean towards a defensive baiting playstyle, with some strong buttons that can overwhelm an opponent that approaches. If this is intended, good job, but to me it feels like that playstyle is a happy coincidence from a lot of uncohesive mechanics
The Link of The Wild set has been commented on in the past by others and I know not even Muno is waiting for comments on this set, but slap Breath of the Wild on something and I'm more convinced fo read, although my next comment will probably be for mUNO (aka Paper Mario: Color Splash aka Cards Against The Humanity That Made The Originals So Good)
That said, Link is as experimental as some Breath of the Wild runs and not always to great effect. While the base set stands on its own as a slightly unorthodox, yet workable core, it's a bland set.
Changing weapons for Dash Attack for example is a cool mechanic, if not for the fact it feels gimmicky and is executed in only one move. While Robin's similar mechanic covers the same variety of moves, it's only affected by specials and ties into his main mechanic.
The Perfect Shield summoning Daruk is a nice touch, but one that feels a bit overtuned. One second of stun is powerful and it doesn't come back in the set enough that would justify this powerful mechanic as anything more than an afterthought in the quest for more Champion's Abilities.
Similar one-off abilities are the climbing and the Rods' gimmicks. I can't really judge if the Rods' mechanics is supposed to be a core to his playstyle or a fun move, this set would've been better with a playstyle section.
Something that does elevate itself above the gimmick-for-the-sake-of-one is the Revali's Gale Jump. Tying into multiple aerials, his poor disadvantage state and one of his specials, it's a nice ability that feels natural.
For the rest, this set is like Breath of the Wild, in that I'm struggling to find a specific playstyle that would tie the mechanics and gimmicks of this set together into a cohesive gameplan. The Hylian trample shield being featured in some key inputs, to the point where his ground game is quite awkward to go on the offensive with, make me lean towards a defensive baiting playstyle, with some strong buttons that can overwhelm an opponent that approaches. If this is intended, good job, but to me it feels like that playstyle is a happy coincidence from a lot of uncohesive mechanics
High Wind Advisory
4/10
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Luigifan18
's Vaati... has a very serious balancing issue. Indeed, though the set itself insists otherwise, Vaati is almost obscenely overpowered, with massively powerful wind effects everywhere. His drawbacks are low damage output, low weight, and lag, but frankly NONE of these matter in the long run because of his ridiculous amount of full-screen windboxes. Credit where it's due, wind abuse is certainly befitting the wind mage, and I appreciate you making the effort to include his swordsmanship, an element of his character few people acknowledge. As it stands, however, Vaati merely needs a remotely competent player to excel, and in a 2v2 scenario I earnestly believe he's nigh-unstoppable. For some specific feedback, a Gust Bellows effect on Jab is absolutely not balanced, nor are casual "intense" fullscreen winds on a Smash attack. Interestingly, two of his standout oddities are nearly useless for him: namely DThrow and DSpec. DThrow has no hard condition, but supposedly only works after 120%, a percentage that Vaati's foes will never reach thanks to his pittance of damage and tendency to outright kill with wind regardless of percentage. DSpec has a fullscreen vacuum effect... but why would someone as fragile and laggy as Vaati WANT that? It's far better to keep the foe as far away as possible. Side Special 3 is similarly useless on its own, as Vaati is hardly capable of racking up 40% in a reasonable amount of time; that said, in Doubles, this move is blatantly a guaranteed kill if his partner has a pulse and isn't another Vaati. As a final note, though they're typically not balanced well, the Final Smash is a standout thanks to it's absolutely absurd duration. As it stands it's not unreasonable for this FS to kill a foe, then immediately kill them again on respawn. All that aside, Vaati isn't an unpleasant read, and I believe that with more balancing, you could make him a much more fair set.Hi
Luigifan18
been a long time but I hope you're still open to feedback on Vaati. First of all, I would've preferred if you posted this in the thread or in a Google Doc, however this set is decently impressive for a set posted off-site. You already have posted the set on Smash Boards elsewhere though it does lack a header image (everyone knows Vaati but there might be someone who doesn't). This might be why this set was kind of ignored so far, despite being a very respectable set overall. What I always say when a set is presented in this order is to put specials first, because it only follows that the specials should be the centrepiece of a set, and how can you imagine them working that way when you read them last? It's for that reason in reveals you tend to see a final smash last to cap off the presentation, and generally specials are shown off first.
Your presentation in the stats is unique as you do have detailed stats in the attributes section, so I can't complain about these being vague or unnecessary, they're largely flavour text. It's honestly nice to read your thoughts on the character's strengths and not have it linked into the actual stats, though it's more suited to a playstyle section at the end of the set in my opinion. You also really don't have to link to pages about floats and wind hitboxes, though it's not like it hurts.
What's good in this set is despite the gimmick of wind hitboxes, it doesn't forget its need for functionality. You still have the building blocks moves like utilt to piece together the playstyle to be viable, and yet you do throw in some more risky fun archetypes like the Volcano Kick-like down tilt and up smash. I also like that despite creating wind hitboxes these moves all have basic purposes as melee attacks a lot of the time, like the ftilt and up tilt. I'm not sure you mention it, but it's important to note AFAIK that if you're above the blast zone and not dealt damage, you're not actually KO'd. If you wanted to get really deep in this set, just taking advantage of that in all these moves pushing the foe super high could've been a fun idea. That said this is already obviously the best Vaati set I've read.
Minor nitpick on the presentation again reading the deviantART version, you could really use some line breaks. The aerials are just one giant block of moves.
The aerials are a very strong section even if they're not too complex, as you again have a lot of good functional moves to aid Vaati's playstyle, utilizing the wind on some moves like his uair, then not on others like bair where it makes sense. I think you underestimate the usefulness of dair though, and in general Vaati does have a lot of crazy range on his moves. Thankfully a lot of that is wind hitboxes rather than anything too dangerous, but lining up a narrow dair laser really isn't that hard and would be the death knell to anyone's air dodge off stage in Smash 4. I think it's also a little gimmicky having the foe able to escape Vaati's grab before he can throw, just sticking them in place to be thrown is not at all overpowered. Wouldn't be if he just threw them where he grabbed them either, it's not like the tornado goes that far... I imagine. It's not actually stated exactly how far it goes. A bit odd too letting him be hit by his own bthrow projectiles, that's usually reserved for explosives, Mewtwo's fthrow doesn't do this.
The dthrow is the worst move in the set so far in my opinion as it's just out of place on a throw. This could be a good fit on a special, like Ridley's down special in Ultimate, but on a throw it's just taking space from a functional dthrow. Could be a very cool special though. Thing about this throw is it's very arbitrary when it does anything, and then it's a OHKO. Seesawing between useless and OHKO is bad balance. Though it has to be said the throws are very solid outside of this one move. You could've listed the reason for this stone OHKO in the move, and it should really be a special, you could retrieve an image of this too to show off. I did a similar thing in a set of mine from a while back now, on a down special, though sadly images are down right now due to Crash Boards. Still might be worth checking out.
After some pretty great moves frankly, it's strange the default side special is so non-descript, though I like the gist of neutral special. Both moves are under-detailed though the nspec does at least make sense for his playstyle. The side special is extremely under-detailed, it just says it "repels opponents" and "stops their attacks cold..." could be a little more descriptive here. Especially when Ultimate scrapped them it feels a little unnecessary having such complex customs anymore though I can't knock you for that. Nitpicking again but the up special is incredibly dense without any line breaks. The up special is pretty cool, although I want more of a sense of what it works like, is this Ness/Lucas' up special where he's easily interrupted with that cursor on screen, or does he have armour like other up specials? Now the down special is interesting, as I said earlier damaging the foe above the blast zone would KO them... though this move doesn't use that, could certainly be interesting if you edited in a stage-wide passive damage hitbox for that reason. Throw a foe above the blast zone, then abuse the passive damage to net a KO. Maybe even slap on some severe lag so Vaati has to do this before he juggles the foe high with non damaging wind? This would take the set to the next level.
Sadly the bad ending of Minish Cap is unavailable, I'll have to look that up. You probably didn't need to talk about the implied sexual assault in the taunts, but the rest of this would make for an excellent intro section. Seriously, these extras and the general detail of this set is outstanding. This set is definitely a little rough, but it has some great attributes to it as well. Great understanding of Smash and its mechanics. You go way, way beyond the extra mile to explain basic mechanics, just insane how much care went into this set, if it just had the traditional move order and some images, it'd be really good overall. My primary complaints outside of nitpicking the presentation is that side special being pretty under-elaborated, and the down throw is just bad. There's some minor stuff I could go into, but this set is shockingly good in spots. Very good work! Please come to our chats listed in the OP, I'd love to see more from you and help you with any future sets.
Luigifan18
been a long time but I hope you're still open to feedback on Vaati. First of all, I would've preferred if you posted this in the thread or in a Google Doc, however this set is decently impressive for a set posted off-site. You already have posted the set on Smash Boards elsewhere though it does lack a header image (everyone knows Vaati but there might be someone who doesn't). This might be why this set was kind of ignored so far, despite being a very respectable set overall. What I always say when a set is presented in this order is to put specials first, because it only follows that the specials should be the centrepiece of a set, and how can you imagine them working that way when you read them last? It's for that reason in reveals you tend to see a final smash last to cap off the presentation, and generally specials are shown off first.Your presentation in the stats is unique as you do have detailed stats in the attributes section, so I can't complain about these being vague or unnecessary, they're largely flavour text. It's honestly nice to read your thoughts on the character's strengths and not have it linked into the actual stats, though it's more suited to a playstyle section at the end of the set in my opinion. You also really don't have to link to pages about floats and wind hitboxes, though it's not like it hurts.
What's good in this set is despite the gimmick of wind hitboxes, it doesn't forget its need for functionality. You still have the building blocks moves like utilt to piece together the playstyle to be viable, and yet you do throw in some more risky fun archetypes like the Volcano Kick-like down tilt and up smash. I also like that despite creating wind hitboxes these moves all have basic purposes as melee attacks a lot of the time, like the ftilt and up tilt. I'm not sure you mention it, but it's important to note AFAIK that if you're above the blast zone and not dealt damage, you're not actually KO'd. If you wanted to get really deep in this set, just taking advantage of that in all these moves pushing the foe super high could've been a fun idea. That said this is already obviously the best Vaati set I've read.
Minor nitpick on the presentation again reading the deviantART version, you could really use some line breaks. The aerials are just one giant block of moves.
The aerials are a very strong section even if they're not too complex, as you again have a lot of good functional moves to aid Vaati's playstyle, utilizing the wind on some moves like his uair, then not on others like bair where it makes sense. I think you underestimate the usefulness of dair though, and in general Vaati does have a lot of crazy range on his moves. Thankfully a lot of that is wind hitboxes rather than anything too dangerous, but lining up a narrow dair laser really isn't that hard and would be the death knell to anyone's air dodge off stage in Smash 4. I think it's also a little gimmicky having the foe able to escape Vaati's grab before he can throw, just sticking them in place to be thrown is not at all overpowered. Wouldn't be if he just threw them where he grabbed them either, it's not like the tornado goes that far... I imagine. It's not actually stated exactly how far it goes. A bit odd too letting him be hit by his own bthrow projectiles, that's usually reserved for explosives, Mewtwo's fthrow doesn't do this.
The dthrow is the worst move in the set so far in my opinion as it's just out of place on a throw. This could be a good fit on a special, like Ridley's down special in Ultimate, but on a throw it's just taking space from a functional dthrow. Could be a very cool special though. Thing about this throw is it's very arbitrary when it does anything, and then it's a OHKO. Seesawing between useless and OHKO is bad balance. Though it has to be said the throws are very solid outside of this one move. You could've listed the reason for this stone OHKO in the move, and it should really be a special, you could retrieve an image of this too to show off. I did a similar thing in a set of mine from a while back now, on a down special, though sadly images are down right now due to Crash Boards. Still might be worth checking out.
After some pretty great moves frankly, it's strange the default side special is so non-descript, though I like the gist of neutral special. Both moves are under-detailed though the nspec does at least make sense for his playstyle. The side special is extremely under-detailed, it just says it "repels opponents" and "stops their attacks cold..." could be a little more descriptive here. Especially when Ultimate scrapped them it feels a little unnecessary having such complex customs anymore though I can't knock you for that. Nitpicking again but the up special is incredibly dense without any line breaks. The up special is pretty cool, although I want more of a sense of what it works like, is this Ness/Lucas' up special where he's easily interrupted with that cursor on screen, or does he have armour like other up specials? Now the down special is interesting, as I said earlier damaging the foe above the blast zone would KO them... though this move doesn't use that, could certainly be interesting if you edited in a stage-wide passive damage hitbox for that reason. Throw a foe above the blast zone, then abuse the passive damage to net a KO. Maybe even slap on some severe lag so Vaati has to do this before he juggles the foe high with non damaging wind? This would take the set to the next level.
Sadly the bad ending of Minish Cap is unavailable, I'll have to look that up. You probably didn't need to talk about the implied sexual assault in the taunts, but the rest of this would make for an excellent intro section. Seriously, these extras and the general detail of this set is outstanding. This set is definitely a little rough, but it has some great attributes to it as well. Great understanding of Smash and its mechanics. You go way, way beyond the extra mile to explain basic mechanics, just insane how much care went into this set, if it just had the traditional move order and some images, it'd be really good overall. My primary complaints outside of nitpicking the presentation is that side special being pretty under-elaborated, and the down throw is just bad. There's some minor stuff I could go into, but this set is shockingly good in spots. Very good work! Please come to our chats listed in the OP, I'd love to see more from you and help you with any future sets.
How Nice Of You To (Mountain) Drop In!
8/10
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Having read the original set for The Mountain, I don't hesitate to say you've definitely improved on it with this remake, @MasterWarlord. The Mountain's new recovery makes better use of the ghost mechanic than his old set did, and lends to some interesting interplay between body and ghost that gives off some pleasant shades of Ribby & Croaks. Volcano is a fun charge move, and I really like being able to set your body to keep charging while you work as the ghost, or to simply set up a two-shot assault by charging with both body and spirit. Mountain Slam is fun, I adore the ability to grab and slam your own lifeless body as the ghost. Mountain Drop is hilariously fast once the startup ends, and I love it for that. Earthquake is an interesting addition to his moveset, and I rather like the interaction with cooled lava. The Smashes are fun, and interestingly enough form their own little microcosm of interactions, with USmash actively lifting and smashing the Fsmash boulders and DSmash softly countering the boulder in lieu of an enemy attack. The FSmash itself makes smart use of The Mountain's hardened lava "ramps" to become a nasty threat with good setup. His Aerials are rather fun, with Nair's customizable knockback angle and UAir's "reversed" knockback being fairly interesting. His Standards are fairly straightforward, but interact with his boulders, lava, and ghost well. Dash Attack is a very fun standout move, I rather enjoy the idea of making yourself into a reusable projectile of sorts. The Grab is fairly expected for a sumo-type, especially the pummel, but his throws are fairly unique; FThrow is potentially horrific if used wisely, and the mental image of a massive ball of The Mountain's body and spirit is amazing. UThrow is fairly simple, but DThrow has a very interesting suite of effects when used atop cooled lava. All in all, The Mountain's new set is vastly improved from the original; excellent work.
Mount Neverest
I don't really remember much of the old Mountain set outside of a few general things related to the character, but I feel like this set is... better? It feels a lot more focused than the original was, even if it is definitely much simpler conceptually. The main issues with the set come down to some odd effects in places, particularly fthrow's blood effect. It was weird in the original set too, and I feel reducing it to this effect is both a blessing and a curse, as it kind of comes off more out of nowhere when its at the end of the set than when its at the start, but it not being like the original set is just a straight up improvement to, so whatever, it's just kind of strange.
The ghost concept generally makes Mountain's abhorrent speed a more acceptable fact, but its definitely a question to ask how bad it would actually be in Smash. From what I can tell, he would only be slightly slower than Incineroar, which obviously wasn't something when the set actually came out, but its interesting to think about. The Mountain using his body as basically a makeshift projectile or combo starter ins ome interactions with the ghost form are very fun, and I think overall this was the best way to handle the character.
Last note, can Mountain complete the classic mode bonus stage? :thinking:
I don't really remember much of the old Mountain set outside of a few general things related to the character, but I feel like this set is... better? It feels a lot more focused than the original was, even if it is definitely much simpler conceptually. The main issues with the set come down to some odd effects in places, particularly fthrow's blood effect. It was weird in the original set too, and I feel reducing it to this effect is both a blessing and a curse, as it kind of comes off more out of nowhere when its at the end of the set than when its at the start, but it not being like the original set is just a straight up improvement to, so whatever, it's just kind of strange.
The ghost concept generally makes Mountain's abhorrent speed a more acceptable fact, but its definitely a question to ask how bad it would actually be in Smash. From what I can tell, he would only be slightly slower than Incineroar, which obviously wasn't something when the set actually came out, but its interesting to think about. The Mountain using his body as basically a makeshift projectile or combo starter ins ome interactions with the ghost form are very fun, and I think overall this was the best way to handle the character.
Last note, can Mountain complete the classic mode bonus stage? :thinking:
Omega
The Jim Jims I apologize that neither I nor it seems anyone else have given this set commentary, as its pretty impressive for a first effort. Omega's disadvantage state is absolutely awful and unlike Ganondorf, you don't really give him the power to make up for it in his advantage state, rather a set of rather unique specials. The big one that stuck out to me for this is the Small Shield, as while I'm not usually a fan of limited "per stock" options having it as something of a get out of jail free card to compensate for his weaknesses is pretty cool, allowing Omega to get back to his solid neutral/advantage state if something goes wrong. You do have to be smart with when and how you use them, and you've written out in decent detail how all these moves cover each other's weaknesses. As far as other individual moves go, I'm actually a fan of Dair, it strikes me as a pretty skill intensive move that makes the process of just landing as Omega interesting, and that's not really a subject I even see covered in a lot of movesets.
My primary issue with this set is actually the Specials, 4 of which(counting Shield Special) are gated behind a "limited per stock" ammo mechanic. Omega has 3 separate ammo banks which clutter the UI, and if he runs out of any of the ammo sources he straight up cannot use those moves for the rest of the stock. Inkling and Robin, the main characters in the game who can "run out of ammo", are both capable of getting their ammo back at some point later in a stock, its not really very satisfying to just never have any chance to refuel. I mean even in Omega's home game, he can obviously scavenge more ammo or guns if he runs out, in Smash he just doesn't have that. This also slightly bothers me because the wall and explosives are honestly not even very strong moves on their own merits, especially not the wall. For how much its advertised as the set's core, it has very flimsy stamina and provides the extremely weak reward of "the high ground" for the resources invested in it. I'm not even really convinced by Omega's set that being on the high ground benefits him that much, if anything it might set him up to get juggled. The SCAR by comparison just seems weirdly frustrating to play against, basically just locking the foe down as long as you unload on them. The Small Shield is the only time I was actually convinced on the set doing per stock limited ammo banks, and it strikes me as especially baffling on the wall when its so weak.
Regardless, you're actually pretty good at designing melee combat, and I would encourage you to try again after this set. I'm a bit stingy with my votes and honestly I think a set like this with better specials is something I could ever give that kind of support too, which is very impressive for how early in your career you are.
The Jim Jims I apologize that neither I nor it seems anyone else have given this set commentary, as its pretty impressive for a first effort. Omega's disadvantage state is absolutely awful and unlike Ganondorf, you don't really give him the power to make up for it in his advantage state, rather a set of rather unique specials. The big one that stuck out to me for this is the Small Shield, as while I'm not usually a fan of limited "per stock" options having it as something of a get out of jail free card to compensate for his weaknesses is pretty cool, allowing Omega to get back to his solid neutral/advantage state if something goes wrong. You do have to be smart with when and how you use them, and you've written out in decent detail how all these moves cover each other's weaknesses. As far as other individual moves go, I'm actually a fan of Dair, it strikes me as a pretty skill intensive move that makes the process of just landing as Omega interesting, and that's not really a subject I even see covered in a lot of movesets.
My primary issue with this set is actually the Specials, 4 of which(counting Shield Special) are gated behind a "limited per stock" ammo mechanic. Omega has 3 separate ammo banks which clutter the UI, and if he runs out of any of the ammo sources he straight up cannot use those moves for the rest of the stock. Inkling and Robin, the main characters in the game who can "run out of ammo", are both capable of getting their ammo back at some point later in a stock, its not really very satisfying to just never have any chance to refuel. I mean even in Omega's home game, he can obviously scavenge more ammo or guns if he runs out, in Smash he just doesn't have that. This also slightly bothers me because the wall and explosives are honestly not even very strong moves on their own merits, especially not the wall. For how much its advertised as the set's core, it has very flimsy stamina and provides the extremely weak reward of "the high ground" for the resources invested in it. I'm not even really convinced by Omega's set that being on the high ground benefits him that much, if anything it might set him up to get juggled. The SCAR by comparison just seems weirdly frustrating to play against, basically just locking the foe down as long as you unload on them. The Small Shield is the only time I was actually convinced on the set doing per stock limited ammo banks, and it strikes me as especially baffling on the wall when its so weak.
Regardless, you're actually pretty good at designing melee combat, and I would encourage you to try again after this set. I'm a bit stingy with my votes and honestly I think a set like this with better specials is something I could ever give that kind of support too, which is very impressive for how early in your career you are.
@Cetus it's great to see more and more fresh faces to MYM so thank you for joining us!! Oceana is a set that interests me quite a bit since I've tried and failed to make a Pokemon Snap set for the past few years I've been here. There's some very general criticism you'll receive about moves being short / underdeveloped, but that (((usually))) goes away with time. No one expects your first set to be your best set (I hope). I don't know much about Endless Ocean personally but I do like the transition of her character into Smash, and she very much feels like how WFT represents Wii Fit in her set. Oceana has more game sense than any of my early sets had, so you at least have a head start there. Moving forward, some useful information to take in is to expand each of your moves. You can think about aspects of the moves like sweet-and-sour spots, how the moves interact with other moves within the set, or any lingering effects the move might have on yourself or the foe. The weakest part of the set is the grab game in terms of content, and you could do a lot of fun stuff with the throws given the grab is essentially a mini-Master Hand. The one thing that worries the most about this set is the Neutral Special, because easy to land second-and-a-half stun projectiles are pretty powerful. It also seems like a gratuitous length for Oceana, because a good number of her moves are described as pretty fast. Oceana could keep the move with a shorter stun period and would probably be able to capitalize on it still. I would also make the Down Special based on a charge time rather than a sequence of item pulls, and the items could be expanded in terms of what they do as well. For instance, given how many of Oceana's moves are fish, perhaps she could store an attack in the treasure chest, able to pop a fish attack out of it once its thrown. The issue with that is she doesn't have any standard fish attacks, so it's not a perfect idea, but would give her something to play around with. Like I said, the focus at this stage should be developing moves more, with the hardest areas for that being the grab game and aerials. Hope this comment helped you develop Oceana and your future sets!
TAKE ME BY THE HAND LEAD ME TO THE LAND
6/10
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Welcome to MYM, @Cetus! Endless Ocean is a series that's very near and dear to me, so you can imagine my hype to see a set hailing from it, and Oceana is a rather pleasant set indeed. There are a few niggling problems here and there, but she's honestly a fun read regardless. My main issues are minor balancing problems, like NSpec's stun being a bit lengthy (perhaps a second flat would be better?), the DSpec treasure chest being rather useless (a simple increase in range would do wonders considering the lag!), and the NAir (seems odd that the swarm of fish that is visibly surrounding her... has no hitbox until it's dispersing.). Other than that, Oceana is fun. I rather like her pacifistic animations like petting the enemy on UThrow and getting spooked by a Ray for DSmash, but the set seems to lose that idea near the end altogether! It's a little OOC for Oceana, a nature lover, to be using fish as weaponry... I'd rather like it if more moves had "accidental" animations like DSmash, but that's just my personal opinion. Very nice debut set, I hope to see more from you!
Welcome to MYM! While my experience with Endless Ocean goes as far as spending an hour screwing around with my friend at his house, I think that what you made here is a very well structured set that I or anyone else can comprehend without actually playing the game. What I would like to comment on is a few of the specifics with the set itself and the writing, if you don't mind. While someone more experienced will be able to offer a better and more in-depth critique than myself, I still believe that I can offer some insight.
For starters, Oceana's Neutral Special has the potential to infinite. I don't know if you caught that while making the set, but with "virtually no startup or end lag", a .5 second cooldown, and a 1.5 second stun time, it is very possible to infinite anyway. Because it is a key component of her set, I don't expect a major change to the fundamental function of it in terms of her moveset, however, I will say that I think that the best way to nerf it is making it so that the cooldown is longer. Think about it this way; If Oceana hits someone with the gun, they are most likely going to want to follow up with something like a Fair or a RAR Bair or Side Special. If it misses, Oceana can still whip out a disjoint to stuff an opponent rushing in. It's a win-win. I think that the cooldown should be on par or slightly above the stun time. Above all else, do you think a diver would be able to create a perfectly functioning electrocution gun out of a utility used to gather information on marine species?
Secondly, her Side Special is absolutely busted. At maximum, the move can do 32% (!!!!) and render the opponent immobile setting them up to get FSmashed and die at a minimum of 58%. Racking up damage with Oceana isn't that difficult, otherwise I would like this dynamic, but Oceana can take stage control with it and then prevent her from even getting touched by you because she throws a 32% damage dealing tool with a pretty decently sized range out ever 3.5 seconds that she can hit you into and then Forward Smash you. This is also the best ledge control move in the game because there is no risk for her to throw a massive AOE attack out there that she can chain into an attack. At least in the case of Lucario's Aura Sphere, he has to be at a high enough Aura and close to the ledge. ROB's gyro can be thrown back at him. You can poke DDD's Gordo and it launches at him. There is no risk involved with throwing a massive AOE attack at the ledge that catches and covers literally every getup option (if you count her standing there waiting for your roll, assuming it doesn't reach IDK I'm not gonna test).
The rest of the things here are me nitpicking to an extent. For one, having a diver dive on land as is described in her Dash Attack is... out of character for a diver. I mean, if I diver were to do that in real life on land as they would when diving into the sea, they would probably injure themselves pretty bad. I would also like to call into question her Down Throw's ability to combo. a 25-degree angle is a really sharp angle, and if I am to assume that her Short Hop is similar to Robin's (pretty mediocre in height) and her run speed is the same as Villager's (4th slowest in the game), I'm not sure if she actually would be able to follow up with an aerial. Maybe she can follow u with Dash Attack? At the end of the day, I just wonder how viable Down Throw actually is at combo-ing. Lastly, her Down Smash. Most roll punish tools are good roll punish tools because they can punish one on reaction. Think of Bayonetta's Heel Slide, which punishes rolls back allowing her to do her monster combos for the kill. With Down Smash's lengthy startup time, I don't think that that would be the case. Average human reaction time is ~15 frames. The shortest roll in the game is Duck Hunt with a 27 frame roll. Taking into account the 15 frames it takes to react, you would need Down Smash to come out on Frame 12 to punish, and judging by "lengthy startup time", I don't think that's the case. If I am to take "lengthy startup time" as 20 frames, then you would have approximately 5 frames to punish Samus's 40 frame roll, not even taking into account the "they're rolling time to Down Smash" and the input lag that varies with the monitor you're playing on.
I think that a lot of the properties of the set could be fleshed out if you instead replaced your vague descriptions of startup, active, and endlag time to frames. You can convert seconds to frames with this handy dandy Frame Calculator (don't forget to change the frame rate to 60!) , and use Kurogane Hammer for specifics on character attributes to compare your set to.
Don't be discouraged by what I wrote down here! You can join the Discord or Skype chats for more personal help on designing a set and just to talk to us! I don't think there is a single soul who wouldn't be happy to help you out. I think that the way you have designed the set is very well, but I think that going further in set design, think about how a move will play out in an actual game. Legendary Street Fighter player Infiltration said that if a move is designed to do something, figure out everything it could do that the designers intended it not to. Shoryuken is a good option out of waking up and as a confirm, which the Street fighter 2 developers didn't necessarily intend. Think about it like that. Good luck in the future! :D
For starters, Oceana's Neutral Special has the potential to infinite. I don't know if you caught that while making the set, but with "virtually no startup or end lag", a .5 second cooldown, and a 1.5 second stun time, it is very possible to infinite anyway. Because it is a key component of her set, I don't expect a major change to the fundamental function of it in terms of her moveset, however, I will say that I think that the best way to nerf it is making it so that the cooldown is longer. Think about it this way; If Oceana hits someone with the gun, they are most likely going to want to follow up with something like a Fair or a RAR Bair or Side Special. If it misses, Oceana can still whip out a disjoint to stuff an opponent rushing in. It's a win-win. I think that the cooldown should be on par or slightly above the stun time. Above all else, do you think a diver would be able to create a perfectly functioning electrocution gun out of a utility used to gather information on marine species?
Secondly, her Side Special is absolutely busted. At maximum, the move can do 32% (!!!!) and render the opponent immobile setting them up to get FSmashed and die at a minimum of 58%. Racking up damage with Oceana isn't that difficult, otherwise I would like this dynamic, but Oceana can take stage control with it and then prevent her from even getting touched by you because she throws a 32% damage dealing tool with a pretty decently sized range out ever 3.5 seconds that she can hit you into and then Forward Smash you. This is also the best ledge control move in the game because there is no risk for her to throw a massive AOE attack out there that she can chain into an attack. At least in the case of Lucario's Aura Sphere, he has to be at a high enough Aura and close to the ledge. ROB's gyro can be thrown back at him. You can poke DDD's Gordo and it launches at him. There is no risk involved with throwing a massive AOE attack at the ledge that catches and covers literally every getup option (if you count her standing there waiting for your roll, assuming it doesn't reach IDK I'm not gonna test).
The rest of the things here are me nitpicking to an extent. For one, having a diver dive on land as is described in her Dash Attack is... out of character for a diver. I mean, if I diver were to do that in real life on land as they would when diving into the sea, they would probably injure themselves pretty bad. I would also like to call into question her Down Throw's ability to combo. a 25-degree angle is a really sharp angle, and if I am to assume that her Short Hop is similar to Robin's (pretty mediocre in height) and her run speed is the same as Villager's (4th slowest in the game), I'm not sure if she actually would be able to follow up with an aerial. Maybe she can follow u with Dash Attack? At the end of the day, I just wonder how viable Down Throw actually is at combo-ing. Lastly, her Down Smash. Most roll punish tools are good roll punish tools because they can punish one on reaction. Think of Bayonetta's Heel Slide, which punishes rolls back allowing her to do her monster combos for the kill. With Down Smash's lengthy startup time, I don't think that that would be the case. Average human reaction time is ~15 frames. The shortest roll in the game is Duck Hunt with a 27 frame roll. Taking into account the 15 frames it takes to react, you would need Down Smash to come out on Frame 12 to punish, and judging by "lengthy startup time", I don't think that's the case. If I am to take "lengthy startup time" as 20 frames, then you would have approximately 5 frames to punish Samus's 40 frame roll, not even taking into account the "they're rolling time to Down Smash" and the input lag that varies with the monitor you're playing on.
I think that a lot of the properties of the set could be fleshed out if you instead replaced your vague descriptions of startup, active, and endlag time to frames. You can convert seconds to frames with this handy dandy Frame Calculator (don't forget to change the frame rate to 60!) , and use Kurogane Hammer for specifics on character attributes to compare your set to.
Don't be discouraged by what I wrote down here! You can join the Discord or Skype chats for more personal help on designing a set and just to talk to us! I don't think there is a single soul who wouldn't be happy to help you out. I think that the way you have designed the set is very well, but I think that going further in set design, think about how a move will play out in an actual game. Legendary Street Fighter player Infiltration said that if a move is designed to do something, figure out everything it could do that the designers intended it not to. Shoryuken is a good option out of waking up and as a confirm, which the Street fighter 2 developers didn't necessarily intend. Think about it like that. Good luck in the future! :D
This set kind of fell through the cracks so I'll go ahead and pick up the slack in that regard. Another Pokeset, this time it's one of Gen 4's darling mons, Toxicroak. I'll get right into the more interesting parts of the moveset and the questions I have regarding it.
I'm unsure how Croak's poison refresh works. Does it increase an opponent's poison timer back to its highest state it's been that 'poisoning'? As in, if the opponent took two hits of poison jab (16 seconds) then 5 seconds passed and they hit you 4 times (reducing the poison timer down to 7) if you get a croak off, does the poisoning reset all the way back to 16? Speaking of, if Toxicroak gets hit with a projectile, does that still reduce Poison timer? If so, wouldn't opponents who know anything about Toxicroak and have a decent projectile mostly end up holding back and trying to wall him out? A final note on croak, Does Sucker Punch go through projectiles or provide any invincibility? The start of it is mentioned to but the actual animation I'm unsure on.
Down Smash's interaction with Goop seems… not forced but, definitely useless and tacked on. I could see the Goop release hitting occasionally, but the slightly increased range and Goop repositioning both seem intensely unneeded considering you can just spawn another Goop with side special; it's not the biggest commitment. Dash Attack's sliding seems a little better but to me sounds like complexity for complexity's sake considering the already very interesting (and not the best explained) poison stack mechanic. Same with Fair healing when sweetspotting a poisoned opponent: won't happen often, seems bizarre that it even can. The inverse sex kick is interesting, I like that interaction the most. It's basic, but still interesting wiithout being overbearing. The mentioned interactions with Dair are very stand-out and displays immense forethought and knowledge of the game that you can see sprinkles of in the rest of your sets, very cool.
Overall, the set is okay. I loved the specials and how they seemed to set up the rest of the set but it begins to be bogged down by random interactions with his mechanics on random moves that seem to like rhyme, reason, or purpose. I like crouch jumping but it mixed with crawl isn't brought up too much. When it is however, you get my favorite moves. D-Tilt and D-air. Things could also be explained a little better. F-Throw's halved refresh makes no sense to me, some animations (FSmash, Up tilt) could be explained a little better, how amplified poison interacts with base poison (IE if Toxi croaks, and the opponent is already poisoned, does the refresh amplify their poison? If not, does getting them poisoned in the next 8 seconds amplify all of their poison until it wears off?), and finally is there a limit on poison goops on the field?
I'm unsure how Croak's poison refresh works. Does it increase an opponent's poison timer back to its highest state it's been that 'poisoning'? As in, if the opponent took two hits of poison jab (16 seconds) then 5 seconds passed and they hit you 4 times (reducing the poison timer down to 7) if you get a croak off, does the poisoning reset all the way back to 16? Speaking of, if Toxicroak gets hit with a projectile, does that still reduce Poison timer? If so, wouldn't opponents who know anything about Toxicroak and have a decent projectile mostly end up holding back and trying to wall him out? A final note on croak, Does Sucker Punch go through projectiles or provide any invincibility? The start of it is mentioned to but the actual animation I'm unsure on.
Down Smash's interaction with Goop seems… not forced but, definitely useless and tacked on. I could see the Goop release hitting occasionally, but the slightly increased range and Goop repositioning both seem intensely unneeded considering you can just spawn another Goop with side special; it's not the biggest commitment. Dash Attack's sliding seems a little better but to me sounds like complexity for complexity's sake considering the already very interesting (and not the best explained) poison stack mechanic. Same with Fair healing when sweetspotting a poisoned opponent: won't happen often, seems bizarre that it even can. The inverse sex kick is interesting, I like that interaction the most. It's basic, but still interesting wiithout being overbearing. The mentioned interactions with Dair are very stand-out and displays immense forethought and knowledge of the game that you can see sprinkles of in the rest of your sets, very cool.
Overall, the set is okay. I loved the specials and how they seemed to set up the rest of the set but it begins to be bogged down by random interactions with his mechanics on random moves that seem to like rhyme, reason, or purpose. I like crouch jumping but it mixed with crawl isn't brought up too much. When it is however, you get my favorite moves. D-Tilt and D-air. Things could also be explained a little better. F-Throw's halved refresh makes no sense to me, some animations (FSmash, Up tilt) could be explained a little better, how amplified poison interacts with base poison (IE if Toxi croaks, and the opponent is already poisoned, does the refresh amplify their poison? If not, does getting them poisoned in the next 8 seconds amplify all of their poison until it wears off?), and finally is there a limit on poison goops on the field?
FrozenRoy's long awaited sequel to MYM14's Croagunk, one of the first movesets I read in MYM, Toxicroak delivers better than its poisonous predecessor. Toxicroak is fascinating immediately given the mobility options it has to start with; giving the frog Pokemon a good crawl with a unique crouch jump is very fun, balanced by the bad crouch height Toxicroak has, and feels like the kind of movement kit that a sneaky assassin would have in Smash (I'd love a crouch jump on a character now in Smash, thanks). Toxicroak, for the most part, has a very aggressive close range gameplan. The poison is both potent enough to justify Toxicroak using resources to poison the opponent while also giving enough reward to approach Toxicroak (eliminating their poison) to play into Toxicroak's overall playstyle. A lot of Toxicroak's individual inputs do a really good job at incorporating this playstyle that places the risk vs. reward on the foe instead of the player, which rightfully means Toxicroak players have to be good at the character for the poison to be any use. Some of the inputs in the standards, like the FTilt Venoshock or the FAir Drain Punch, almost cross the line into Pokemon Syndrome with random effects on those attacks, but the effects they have play so well into the playstyle that the only bad part of the move choices is the input. I actually really like Drain Punch FAir as a move, giving Toxicroak the option to heal himself as well as the opponent, and honestly the fact that Dry Skin ability is utilized multiple times throughout the set without seeming tacky is genuinely impressive.
There are some issues I have with the set, however. Toxicroak's poison gets very powerful with Croak's buff, though Froy is already aware of this and has mentioned changing it so this is nothing new. FTilt, Venoshock, also seems excessively powerful with it being able to pretty easily pull off 18% damage with just slightly above average starting lag. I think part of the problem on this is that foes who are poisoned, no matter what level of poison they have, take the entire boost. If foes who were poisoned had scaling damage so only foes who are sustaining full poison got the double, I think the move would seem much less oppressive. The poison refresh on some of the moves is useful, but I personally think the refresh on Croak is insane. Toxicroak has pretty good mobility and can most likely find a spot in the stage to perform a full screen refresh on all poisoned opponents. On top of the buffs that Toxicroak gets from the move already, giving him stronger poison and a poison effect from being grabbed AND the ability to switch into Sucker Punch if foes get too close, this move becomes devastatingly powerful. I think an AoE refresh would work better, and would give Toxicroak the option of taking a hit to refresh poison with Croak or counter the foes with Sucker Punch.
There's a lot to like in this set with a unique take on poisoning the foe and how they get un-poisoned. The moves in general follow a great gameplan of both approaching the foe while also forcing foes to approach Toxicroak, a fun balance that often only has one side seen in sets. Moves like Revenge are well translated into Smash while still being fun and unique and not falling victim too hard to Pokemon Sydrome. However, there are definitely issues with the balance of some of the moves and the poison as a whole, which Froy is already aware of. Spots of the set have confusing wording regarding the poison which is added vs. refreshed vs, ticked, and it can be just a bit hard to follow for me in those spots. The grab game has a few interactions with Toxicroak's puddles, though nothing that wasn't really seen before or profound, and Belch is a pretty fun concept for a throw even if I question Toxicroak's mouth integrity after chewing on Bowser, but the grabs and a handful of the standards fall a bit flat compared to some of the really cool moves in the set. This having been said, I enjoyed the set quite a bit, and is definitely in voting range, likely WV+ to RV as is. Also definitely better than Croagunk.
There are some issues I have with the set, however. Toxicroak's poison gets very powerful with Croak's buff, though Froy is already aware of this and has mentioned changing it so this is nothing new. FTilt, Venoshock, also seems excessively powerful with it being able to pretty easily pull off 18% damage with just slightly above average starting lag. I think part of the problem on this is that foes who are poisoned, no matter what level of poison they have, take the entire boost. If foes who were poisoned had scaling damage so only foes who are sustaining full poison got the double, I think the move would seem much less oppressive. The poison refresh on some of the moves is useful, but I personally think the refresh on Croak is insane. Toxicroak has pretty good mobility and can most likely find a spot in the stage to perform a full screen refresh on all poisoned opponents. On top of the buffs that Toxicroak gets from the move already, giving him stronger poison and a poison effect from being grabbed AND the ability to switch into Sucker Punch if foes get too close, this move becomes devastatingly powerful. I think an AoE refresh would work better, and would give Toxicroak the option of taking a hit to refresh poison with Croak or counter the foes with Sucker Punch.
There's a lot to like in this set with a unique take on poisoning the foe and how they get un-poisoned. The moves in general follow a great gameplan of both approaching the foe while also forcing foes to approach Toxicroak, a fun balance that often only has one side seen in sets. Moves like Revenge are well translated into Smash while still being fun and unique and not falling victim too hard to Pokemon Sydrome. However, there are definitely issues with the balance of some of the moves and the poison as a whole, which Froy is already aware of. Spots of the set have confusing wording regarding the poison which is added vs. refreshed vs, ticked, and it can be just a bit hard to follow for me in those spots. The grab game has a few interactions with Toxicroak's puddles, though nothing that wasn't really seen before or profound, and Belch is a pretty fun concept for a throw even if I question Toxicroak's mouth integrity after chewing on Bowser, but the grabs and a handful of the standards fall a bit flat compared to some of the really cool moves in the set. This having been said, I enjoyed the set quite a bit, and is definitely in voting range, likely WV+ to RV as is. Also definitely better than Croagunk.
Rex
The effort that went into this set is pretty admirable, what with how you've gone through and done PG edits of the character outfits and made a UI for them that combines the Smash 5 and Xenoblade 2 UI's in a really nice looking way. I will say that translates over to the actual set as well, for once whereas in most of your sets you tend to be content to sometimes let a combo fodder move be a combo fodder move, here every move actually feels like you're trying to catch the readers attention with only a couple exceptions. Having a lot of exciting moves in your set really isn't a bad thing as long as they come down to serving some practical purpose, and this set definitely has plenty of moves that are cool ideas. I like implementing XC2's status effects when hitting the opponent from the back with one of the tilts, as well as stuff like the moves that cause the inactive Blade to show up allowing for multiple Side B uses at a time. The Affinity mechanics are a pretty unique take on the duo character and weapon switch idea that very clearly pushes Rex to switch around his playstyle during the match, providing him a very distinctive playstyle, so the set can't really be said to not be unique in many regards.
With all that out of the way, yeah, I don't really like this set, and I hate to kill your buzz on it because the ambitious mechanics of it do get me excited for what you can do in the future. But there's just too many things that overlap with each other in intrusive ways. I think the easiest example is that if you want to build affinity with Mythra you want her away from you, but using literally any Smash attack immediately teleports her next to you. This is inherently going to be very annoying when playing as Mythra as you basically have to lock off your Smash attacks, and there's plenty more where that came from. If you want to do some particular Blade positioning, its gone as soon as you use any sword attack. If you want to use the grab, you lose all of the reserve character's affinity on any throw. Nevermind that frankly, Affinity is really awkward to build in the first place, as so many of Rex's actions can desync Pyra when you wouldn't want them too and Mythra requires Rex to stay away from a specific place on the stage. It fundamentally doesn't let Rex play organically as he has to either regularly sacrifice whatever he was planning or awkwardly limit the actions he takes based around the half-dozen arbitrary things that can break affinity or ruin a positioning setup or what have you.
The set has other problems too. I like applying status effects by hitting from the back specifically, but 3/4 of them are stun, and you practically encourage chaining them into each other. Stun really isn't fun to deal with on such a regular basis, even tied to the cooldown timers it feels like the opponent will be locked down for a larger portion of the match than is remotely fun if Rex gets an advantage state. Nevermind the cooldown timers giving another mechanic Rex has to be wary of screwing up. There's a few other things that bug me like Pyra's Down B being basically the same move as her Side B, except stronger and forcing a switch to Mythra, giving her fairly little in the way of variety. And while the Affinity system you present is unique, it doesn't really reward good play in a uniform way. Sometimes good play is completely abandoning the affinity stuff or any position setups you have, and that might be true of almost any setup set, but with this set its so often the player has basically no guideline on if they're playing well or not. Its really unintuitive is what I'm getting at, which is weird coming from you, even if I appreciate you making a set where I can claim that's a problem instead of it being too boring or same-y.
The effort that went into this set is pretty admirable, what with how you've gone through and done PG edits of the character outfits and made a UI for them that combines the Smash 5 and Xenoblade 2 UI's in a really nice looking way. I will say that translates over to the actual set as well, for once whereas in most of your sets you tend to be content to sometimes let a combo fodder move be a combo fodder move, here every move actually feels like you're trying to catch the readers attention with only a couple exceptions. Having a lot of exciting moves in your set really isn't a bad thing as long as they come down to serving some practical purpose, and this set definitely has plenty of moves that are cool ideas. I like implementing XC2's status effects when hitting the opponent from the back with one of the tilts, as well as stuff like the moves that cause the inactive Blade to show up allowing for multiple Side B uses at a time. The Affinity mechanics are a pretty unique take on the duo character and weapon switch idea that very clearly pushes Rex to switch around his playstyle during the match, providing him a very distinctive playstyle, so the set can't really be said to not be unique in many regards.
With all that out of the way, yeah, I don't really like this set, and I hate to kill your buzz on it because the ambitious mechanics of it do get me excited for what you can do in the future. But there's just too many things that overlap with each other in intrusive ways. I think the easiest example is that if you want to build affinity with Mythra you want her away from you, but using literally any Smash attack immediately teleports her next to you. This is inherently going to be very annoying when playing as Mythra as you basically have to lock off your Smash attacks, and there's plenty more where that came from. If you want to do some particular Blade positioning, its gone as soon as you use any sword attack. If you want to use the grab, you lose all of the reserve character's affinity on any throw. Nevermind that frankly, Affinity is really awkward to build in the first place, as so many of Rex's actions can desync Pyra when you wouldn't want them too and Mythra requires Rex to stay away from a specific place on the stage. It fundamentally doesn't let Rex play organically as he has to either regularly sacrifice whatever he was planning or awkwardly limit the actions he takes based around the half-dozen arbitrary things that can break affinity or ruin a positioning setup or what have you.
The set has other problems too. I like applying status effects by hitting from the back specifically, but 3/4 of them are stun, and you practically encourage chaining them into each other. Stun really isn't fun to deal with on such a regular basis, even tied to the cooldown timers it feels like the opponent will be locked down for a larger portion of the match than is remotely fun if Rex gets an advantage state. Nevermind the cooldown timers giving another mechanic Rex has to be wary of screwing up. There's a few other things that bug me like Pyra's Down B being basically the same move as her Side B, except stronger and forcing a switch to Mythra, giving her fairly little in the way of variety. And while the Affinity system you present is unique, it doesn't really reward good play in a uniform way. Sometimes good play is completely abandoning the affinity stuff or any position setups you have, and that might be true of almost any setup set, but with this set its so often the player has basically no guideline on if they're playing well or not. Its really unintuitive is what I'm getting at, which is weird coming from you, even if I appreciate you making a set where I can claim that's a problem instead of it being too boring or same-y.
Slayer of Wallets
9/10
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This is a pretty fun set! I'm amazed this is the very first MYM set to use a pinball theme in such a literal manner, as it works super well. The base concept of BK literally playing pinball while fighting is super solid, and leads to a lot of fun nuances on otherwise standard heavyweight sword moves. A lot of emphasis is placed on good positioning, timing, and aim, which is of course perfectly fitting given the character's origins. Something that I feel is important is that he's still a perfectly serviceable heavyweight even if you're not able to make good use of the Electro-Ball. Sure, not all of his attacks are amazingly powerful, but he's still a credible threat even without his gimmick available, and that is ALWAYS a plus. Other good points are that his pinball table props don't interfere with foes beyond the drawbridge bouncing their projectiles. I fully expected the bumper prop to bounce foes off, which would've been rather obnoxious, but you had the sense to only let them touch Electro-Balls. I almost think it'd be fun to let them bounce ALL projectiles off like the drawbridge itself, but that's just me. All in all, a very solid set, Bio; excellent work!
Black Knight Not King Knight (Black Knight @Bionichute)
The Black Knight's Specials actually set up a pretty interesting projectile pinball setup for him, in particular the Down Smash trap is actually pretty neat as a kind of savable Electro-Ball reflector and trap. Up Special is a fairly neat use of an Up Special and offers some reasonably solid projectile saving options and the use of duplicates as minions you rush around to deflect the shots is innovative enough as well. There's some cute/nice reflection options as well: Neutral Aerial is an obvious one I enjoy, but Down Tilt is also pretty cool and Dash Attack is neat.
This move also has some instantly fixable errors I see. Neutral Aerial's bumper lasts indefinitely with absolutely no termination clause which means he can currently create an infinite amount of never ending bumpers for his projectiles which is probably bad. Put a time limit on them, even a long one (20 seconds? 10 seconds?). Some of the KO numbers are whack. Forward Tilt randomly kills better than any of his smashes, even a sweetspotted Up Smash, despite having "quick start-up". His Down Smash, his laggiest smash with the least special interactions, kills the latest of all of his Smashes despite dealing the most damage which feels odd. I would bump Forward Tilt's kill power to 140% or 150% and bring Down Smash's down to 110% or even 100% given how laggy it sounds. As a side note, I would increase Up Smash's sweetspot uncharged damage to 14% to make it do 1% more than the F-Smash and make it more logical that it does more damage fully charged.
Another issue I will bring up is that Forward Smash is kind of contradictary, both stating it is super fast and that it has a "very laggy" part of its animation. If its super fast, it really doesn't matter how long part of the animation takes since it is probably unreactable and it doesn't matter much if, say, 7 frames of an 8 frame move are the same animation. Alternately, it can be read as the move being laggy to start while also being fast to start which obviously makes no sense. I'd fix this.
Back Aerial is neat, but to go back to my earlier point it isn't as playstyle relevant when the Forward Tilt can kill at the same percent and is fast to come out. I also like how Down Aerial's speed is somewhat used against it and how it plays into stalling. One thing I'd like to mention is I feel like this set would do better with some expansion on moves aside from interacting with the Electro-Ball, as I do see a theme of multi-hit moves that make things like rolling scary against The Black Knight while shielding of course helps his Electro-Balls. Making Down Smash a KO move would help advance this, but it might be neat to suggest stuff like Up Smash's sweetspot as a hard to air dodge 50/50 from his Up Throw, or giving him a notable strong yet unsafe-on-shield move to make opponents want to shield and thus deflect an Electro-Ball or put them in a Catch-22. This is another area that could be expanded on even just in explanation of moves. I'd also consider spicing up the Forward Throw, which doesn't serve as much of a purpose right now. Maybe The Black Knight could make the opponent static-y and electrified, causing Electro-Balls to home in on foes slightly to play into it being the "Throw them into the ball" throw? Also, a general throw note: Up Throw should probably kill even later as a combo throw given how it sounds.
The Black Knight has some good points. The Specials based projectile pinball is actually pretty solid, there's some fun ideas to play around with it, it has some basics of playstyle outside of it down. But it is dragged down by some weird numerical issues I mentioned earlier, being a bit low in expansion on the sub-themes/non-Electro-Ball themes in the set and being a bit too same-y in some bounces with parts of the grab game being the primary offender. This will probably move somewhere into 6 if the above issues are fixed and maybe a bit of expansion, but for now the issues are just too large for me to feel comfortable doing it when the good isn't necessarily great.
The Black Knight's Specials actually set up a pretty interesting projectile pinball setup for him, in particular the Down Smash trap is actually pretty neat as a kind of savable Electro-Ball reflector and trap. Up Special is a fairly neat use of an Up Special and offers some reasonably solid projectile saving options and the use of duplicates as minions you rush around to deflect the shots is innovative enough as well. There's some cute/nice reflection options as well: Neutral Aerial is an obvious one I enjoy, but Down Tilt is also pretty cool and Dash Attack is neat.
This move also has some instantly fixable errors I see. Neutral Aerial's bumper lasts indefinitely with absolutely no termination clause which means he can currently create an infinite amount of never ending bumpers for his projectiles which is probably bad. Put a time limit on them, even a long one (20 seconds? 10 seconds?). Some of the KO numbers are whack. Forward Tilt randomly kills better than any of his smashes, even a sweetspotted Up Smash, despite having "quick start-up". His Down Smash, his laggiest smash with the least special interactions, kills the latest of all of his Smashes despite dealing the most damage which feels odd. I would bump Forward Tilt's kill power to 140% or 150% and bring Down Smash's down to 110% or even 100% given how laggy it sounds. As a side note, I would increase Up Smash's sweetspot uncharged damage to 14% to make it do 1% more than the F-Smash and make it more logical that it does more damage fully charged.
Another issue I will bring up is that Forward Smash is kind of contradictary, both stating it is super fast and that it has a "very laggy" part of its animation. If its super fast, it really doesn't matter how long part of the animation takes since it is probably unreactable and it doesn't matter much if, say, 7 frames of an 8 frame move are the same animation. Alternately, it can be read as the move being laggy to start while also being fast to start which obviously makes no sense. I'd fix this.
Back Aerial is neat, but to go back to my earlier point it isn't as playstyle relevant when the Forward Tilt can kill at the same percent and is fast to come out. I also like how Down Aerial's speed is somewhat used against it and how it plays into stalling. One thing I'd like to mention is I feel like this set would do better with some expansion on moves aside from interacting with the Electro-Ball, as I do see a theme of multi-hit moves that make things like rolling scary against The Black Knight while shielding of course helps his Electro-Balls. Making Down Smash a KO move would help advance this, but it might be neat to suggest stuff like Up Smash's sweetspot as a hard to air dodge 50/50 from his Up Throw, or giving him a notable strong yet unsafe-on-shield move to make opponents want to shield and thus deflect an Electro-Ball or put them in a Catch-22. This is another area that could be expanded on even just in explanation of moves. I'd also consider spicing up the Forward Throw, which doesn't serve as much of a purpose right now. Maybe The Black Knight could make the opponent static-y and electrified, causing Electro-Balls to home in on foes slightly to play into it being the "Throw them into the ball" throw? Also, a general throw note: Up Throw should probably kill even later as a combo throw given how it sounds.
The Black Knight has some good points. The Specials based projectile pinball is actually pretty solid, there's some fun ideas to play around with it, it has some basics of playstyle outside of it down. But it is dragged down by some weird numerical issues I mentioned earlier, being a bit low in expansion on the sub-themes/non-Electro-Ball themes in the set and being a bit too same-y in some bounces with parts of the grab game being the primary offender. This will probably move somewhere into 6 if the above issues are fixed and maybe a bit of expansion, but for now the issues are just too large for me to feel comfortable doing it when the good isn't necessarily great.
Black Knight is vintage projectile tennis, and you don’t have to look far for inspiration here. A big bad warlock who loves to whack a projectile back and forth? Yes, it’s an obvious Ganondorf wannabe. I can’t say I disapprove and I enjoyed all the many, many references to the character as a big fan of him/the moveset, though it got a little weird when you started referencing his taunts (mostly I just didn’t like nair). All in all, it’s a fun if predictable projectile tennis set from you, I think it peaked in the first specials. The way the Electro-Ball works and the clones/minions form a fun dichotomy that is well balanced, simple, logical concepts at play. I would say however I’m not sure I quite understand the point of up special and I thought down special would’ve been a lot cooler if it wasn’t so redundant with the clones’ shields, he hardly needs it defensively. I'd have preferred an offensive special, for example a guillotine attack, perhaps even a OHKO similar to Ridley's down special to push how he’s super hardcore.
The set largely gets into what I’d expect from a projectile tennis set. Moves do tend to fall into one of two territories: making up their own rules, or generically batting the projectile in a direction. I will admit that the fsmash inspired by the pinball flipper was very creative, but largely these moves that don’t follow any concrete logic have effects that aren’t all that interesting. Like for example the ftilt that just reflects the Electro-Ball back at an opposite angle, it’d be a lot more interesting if the move could be angled (as I assume it would be like most ftilts) to mix up whether he hits it forward, or diagonally forward/down. Then a lot of the moves just hit it in an obvious direction you could guess based on the input, to the point I wonder why even state this detail. I didn’t get why the nair wasn’t just a special either, especially given I was not a big fan of dspec. It’s also kind of weird you didn’t give more of a shield focus given how much you benefit from the foe shielding the Electro-Ball, and Black Knight does have a lance.
Largely what I liked here is the Ganondorf/warlock theme with a heavyweight throwing around his weight, the basic Electro-Ball and minion redirection mechanics, and the general characterisation was pretty neat too. It’s always cool seeing an obscure character from an old game like this represented and it definitely was enjoyable to read, so good job Bio.
The set largely gets into what I’d expect from a projectile tennis set. Moves do tend to fall into one of two territories: making up their own rules, or generically batting the projectile in a direction. I will admit that the fsmash inspired by the pinball flipper was very creative, but largely these moves that don’t follow any concrete logic have effects that aren’t all that interesting. Like for example the ftilt that just reflects the Electro-Ball back at an opposite angle, it’d be a lot more interesting if the move could be angled (as I assume it would be like most ftilts) to mix up whether he hits it forward, or diagonally forward/down. Then a lot of the moves just hit it in an obvious direction you could guess based on the input, to the point I wonder why even state this detail. I didn’t get why the nair wasn’t just a special either, especially given I was not a big fan of dspec. It’s also kind of weird you didn’t give more of a shield focus given how much you benefit from the foe shielding the Electro-Ball, and Black Knight does have a lance.
Largely what I liked here is the Ganondorf/warlock theme with a heavyweight throwing around his weight, the basic Electro-Ball and minion redirection mechanics, and the general characterisation was pretty neat too. It’s always cool seeing an obscure character from an old game like this represented and it definitely was enjoyable to read, so good job Bio.
The Black Knight is probably one of the more fun sets I can remember in recent just in terms of both ambition and concept. Unfortunately a Real Life Pinball character gets out-ridiculoused by the entire planet of Jupiter, but it really is a neat set. The Black Knight is a really fun take on a projectile character who's got pretty solid standards and a desire to keep his projectiles alive. Unlike a lot of ways of doing a set like this, I'm very impressed by the minimalism of Black Knight's setup. The Black Knight gets a lot of mileage out of three hard stage setups; the clones, drawbridge, and the balls themselves. Especially for a retro pinball set, it would be very easy to fall into leaving a ton of stage constructions around as inputs, with flippers, barricades, and bumpers. Instead the Black Knight fills those positions very nicely with his own moveset, which gives great synergy because Black Knight can essentially "attack" his projectiles just like he would an opponent. The gameplay is very not disruptive in a way I wouldn't expect from a character like this. The relative simplicity compliments the fun animations the Black Knight has, and the mechanics of the set seem really fun to play around and even against.
There are a few issues within the set, including most prominently the lackluster grab game. Of course, it's a grab game for a character who doesn't have great grabbing abilities, but some more direct interactions between the foe and the Electro-Balls might have helped flesh it out a bit. On a different note, Magna-Save seems incredibly powerful, pulling up to three fast hitboxes at long range with potentially lethal power straight towards him. I'm not sure the best solution to this, since Magna-Save has a very important role in the set that couldn't really be removed, but perhaps deactivating the hitboxes, or otherwise dampening them in some way, could do that. As one more nitpicky thing, the set lists Black Knight as having two Down Specials, whereas I think that Drawbridge is supposed to be on Side Special.
4.0 / 5.0
There are a few issues within the set, including most prominently the lackluster grab game. Of course, it's a grab game for a character who doesn't have great grabbing abilities, but some more direct interactions between the foe and the Electro-Balls might have helped flesh it out a bit. On a different note, Magna-Save seems incredibly powerful, pulling up to three fast hitboxes at long range with potentially lethal power straight towards him. I'm not sure the best solution to this, since Magna-Save has a very important role in the set that couldn't really be removed, but perhaps deactivating the hitboxes, or otherwise dampening them in some way, could do that. As one more nitpicky thing, the set lists Black Knight as having two Down Specials, whereas I think that Drawbridge is supposed to be on Side Special.
4.0 / 5.0
NECALLI by
FrozenRoy
(May edit later for readability, as I am getting this out quite late)
Stats:
These seem to make sense, although I’m confused by the wording of “more stout than Gdorf tall”. So he’s…wider than Gdorf is tall? That seems weird. I assume I’m reading it wrong. Seems slow, but I’ve read enough to know that this is by design and in line with his playstyle/moves. Air stuff looks good.
Specials:
Passive: So, a note on meter management in Smash before I get all into this. As I had mentioned in my other comment, it can be done. Countless characters have meters (my pedantry about cooldowns aside), and it can add an interesting element to a character. What does seem to be close to the baseline for Smash, however, is the linear application of meter, by which I mean, almost everything is the same cost. All of Cloud’s moves cost 1 meter. Little Mac’s super punch is 1 meter. Inklings have a weird system which I’m not 100% on the depletion rate, but I don’t believe it varies wildly. Robin *does* have multiple cost usages, but this is notably finicky among the playerbase, and the refill is governed by time, ie, it’s automatic.
All this to say that while there is precedent for multicost meters, it is unusual, and puts Necalli very much into a true meter (a resource which he manually charges) management (needs to balance the use for moves which utilize variable amounts) playstyle. Don’t read this paragraph and think this means I’m disqualifying Necalli right off the bat in my mind – I’m not – but rather that the bar for complexity is raised, something which is neither good nor bad but can occasionally be taken to…extremes.
Even beyond the MM component, I’m also concerned about the interconnected nature of this set; it seems to be focused around this mechanic in a way which few (but some) sets in the games are. Smash movesets are generally a little looser. Which isn’t to say there aren’t gameplans, but these gameplans develop naturally out of their toolset, as opposed to a formalized concepts of things like “mechanic A can make moves W, X, Y, Z into W’, X’, Y’, Z’ and forces state V and open up other moves B, C, (and D while in state V)”. Which, in that case, makes mechanic A uniquely into something which is both a really central and a really formalized approach to moves in a way that strikes me as somewhat anachronistic. I know that it does happen from time to time, which is why I say somewhat, but this alongside the aforementioned metering is something I’ll keep this in mind while assessing the rest of the set here.
Shield Special and all its many forms: For the tap, I like it, but I can’t help but feel like The Calling is something that might work best in the world of SF vs Smash. Which I guess is a mean way to open the paragraph, so let me explain. I get the sense that a move like this – a resource using 360 area attack shockwave with a sweetspot – would work better in a world where the players have a little less aerial mobility (as there’s less of an option to “go around” him, which still matters given the sweetspot), one where matching frame for advantage is more crucial to the play (vis-a-vis the importance here in a game with such comparatively large degrees of knockback and knockback control but I would have to think it’s lessened vs SF; I understand the concept of advantage quite well, just that I have to think it’s rather less of a consideration), and one where there are a few fewer goofy projectiles and disjointed hitboxes (which I do like about Smash, and there exists more than one projectile in SF, but I wish you expounded on the interactions here). None of which means I don’t like the move, because I do; I think it’s a fun pressure option, I just can’t help but thing that there are some aspects of the design here that might not translate as well as hoped. Also, interesting that it’s possible to be done without blocking an attack, which could open up some options with pre-emptive Calling. Presumably that would lead into a tech chase of sorts.
For the V-trigger, what is the distinction between tap and holding? Is it a charge sort of thing? A very small thing, but there’s a difference between tap>press>hold. Would an opponent be able to spot the hold to set up a react in the extremely safe window they see coming, since Calling can’t be used? Is it just a few frames off of tap? If it’s really close, I could see wrong moves coming out sometimes (which could be by design), and if it’s really far, then I could see a punish coming before the activate period proper begins (which could also be by design). Well, however it goes I suppose. Canceling the ending lag is nice, and I can see how that’d work with the rest of his set (wait, the ending lag canceling of a move requires that move to hit?), but (and I know this is from SFV), wow, the entire rest of the stock? These are some serious buffs he gets – speed, better air control, jump height, better moves all around…I know that this precludes the use of The Calling for the stock as well, but considering he gets a powerfully offensive *and* defensive projectile (which I am assuming doesn’t take any resources, as I see nothing about that, and I say defensively useful due to its beefy nature) to cover himself with, on top of the things I pointed out earlier, I at least would be trying to get to Torrent of Power right away. A brief anti-pressure burst isn’t really worth taking 33% longer to have a semi-permanent all-around buff unless the person is, but I don’t know, as of course I’ve never played this. Regardless, my summation for discussion on the shield-b component is overall: a tilt towards the dangerously complicated but not there yet; a lot of setups; one component I’m not sure if a 1:1-ish translation works as well as intended, and one where it seems the far better option given the translation questions.
Neutral special: As I understand it, this is a command grab which has a tapped version, an ex version (wait what), a v-triggered version, and an ex v-triggered version. That sounds like a lot, and others might assume that because of my noted dislike of complication, this is too much, but I think this is fine here. It’ll only ever be two at once, and they’re not so completely different as to be insane. The one tiny bit that’s even a little farther afield is the switch to an in bounce, but it’s eh. I’ll let it slide isn’t it’s still not that out there. Beyond that, I think the followups make sense, I think the way this works into a playstyle makes sense, and although I still maintain my worries that V-trig is just the outright better option with the untechable/armored nature on top of HoG, it at least makes sense. A 1.4x hitstun multiplier seems high though, I will say. Also it’s kinda hard to follow when you cite the down or side specials when those have yet to be introduced. Also also, what makes something “ex”? Did I miss something? Let me know if I did, but I didn’t see anything. The way you lay it out, I assume you mean press here, but see my earlier notes on that tricky business.
Side special: Ah, charge moves. The classic of the side b. Always fun to see that old chestnut of “different levels of charge do things beyond just increase range”. I’m also glad to see it’s punishable on whiff and all that, which I can tell plays into the, well, playstyle. Funky air control too, although I have to wonder if that kind of difference between the partial and fully charged versions will be all that parse-able until it actually happens – which is fine on one level, since there are plenty of moves out there whose real value/mixups are strictly at upper levels of play, but on another, if you’re going to set it up to be a good recovery option and it gains distance on charge, it seems real easy to accidentally go into full charge if not an upper level player and that could make the move seem finnicky. V-trig, much like all the other specials I’ve seen, give this a massive buff. The smash charge gets rid of a time commitment, and the double speed makes any timing harder to keep track of, which is a buff overall but could just as easily exacerbate the precise timing nature. I mean, why go partial distance? Someone would always (well, frequently, I imagine) want to go max distance, and if it’s going to be based on frame perfect timing to avoid the full charge 3/4th thing, good luck doing that at max speed consistently. Even for pros, I’d say. 22% chargeless damage at range with added shield damage is a lot though. For other bonuses, I must admit, I’m confused: you say that the V-triggered fully charged dash can punish the near shield break by…canceling into V-trigger? Isn’t the person already in that state? Am I reading this wrong? I’m assuming too from some of the wording that it gets even more punishable on whiff, which is a wise choice.
Down Special: So for the down spec, I used to have a whole chunk of text breaking down how I felt it was too much, too jam packed despite being comparatively simple, but in looking over it more and comparing it to the game, I don’t think it’s too bad. I think the tilt to aim aspect is a good tweak, one which makes sense within the larger context of the game as it’s known now, and can add a little mixup which fits in well while not going too crazy. Plus, mindgame potential, which is always good. I still worry that the powered up version is, well, too powered up, but I recognize that this is just the playstyle going for and obviously being powered up is the point.
Up Special: Pretty standard out of shield. There isn’t much to write about this, although I will say that this reminds me of The Calling, sans the full 360 degree coverage, as just a good get out of shield anti-pressure move. Obviously not the exact same, but some overlap, and really, just more reason that I’d imagine that, as I play this character, my gameplan would be to get to Torrent ASAP and only maybe use Calling in very specific last chance situations. Being worse in Torrent doesn’t really make those differences any larger, although I do at least appreciate the sidegrade aspect. Overall though, all of that aside, it seems fairly basic. Multi-hit up attack. Reminds me of screw attack, in a way, but perhaps a little beefier on the tail end. I mean it’s all balanced fine, but hmm. Kinda basic. I’m not sure what could be done to make it not basic outside of the application of ToP, considering the provenance of the character to begin with, so I guess it’s pretty good. I can certainly see it being a useful tool, and it works well within the scope of the set and the character (balancing issues nonwithstanding), so yeah, pretty good if basic. Hey, I guess I did have a bit to write.
So that’s my thoughts on the specials. Overall, I can see the playstyle, I can see the moves and how they work, I like them even if they are on the face mechanically a little basic, but we need a grappler character. I have my qualms with the complication arising from the many many many variants every move seems to have, on top of the meter system, on top of the balancing of The Calling vs ToP, on top of overall balancing questions, but none of the individual components seem entirely out of place. The powering up is clearly the basis of the playstyle, and it seems unfair to knock it time and time again, but it keeps me coming back to my :L face with this set:
Whether that playstyle is particularly Smash-like. I wouldn’t say too far outside the realm of possibility, although it is…unusual in it’s regard. You and I had a conversation earlier about the connective tissue of a moveset, and I maintain that a degree of diffusion can be a good thing: it can avoid set play, and leave things more open ended about how to go about to get there in the end, which is something I think Smash as a whole does well compared to, say, Killer Instinct (which I very much enjoy). Now, there are definite benefits to the whole affair; it ties things together, it serves a focal point for the design, but in the end, I’m not sure if that can quite overcome the more improv sense that Smash has in its design, that moves unconnected from others is more often the case than not. Anyway, this aside to say that while the moves are well done, and I can see how it plays into his moveset, I am not sure that the focus serves him the best in a way that most emphasizes the strengths of the game, and I lament that view of mine being re-enforced when I see that a move is again taking big power boosts from another, very formalized, semi-permanent mechanic. I know that some characters in the games already have moves that affect others, but it doesn’t seem to be quite this universal or sustained. *All this said* though, it’s less a question of being overly complicated and moreso a far more up-in-the-air interpretation of the core direction and gameplay construction of the series, and so I can’t ding it too too much (plus variety is the spice of life), and so although I may continue to call it out, it’s not *that* bad.
Smashes:
Forward Smash: Seems fine, and what I’d expect of a Necalli sort of character. The range is an interesting touch vs the GDorf comparison; that’s a definite buff, and a 10% less kill percent isn’t a colossal nerf, so on balance it seems to come out on top but again, it makes sense. For the held special combo, are you imagining that these are two charged moves in a row, since you call out the addendum about needing more damage with an uncharged forward smash? I’m assuming that a held special is referring to the ex version, as you mention it. That’s part of what makes the 1.4x multiple work, I’m sure, but it seems a little inorganic/set-play-y (just a tad).
Down Smash: A fine move, albeit one again somewhat overcomplicated/overpowered by ToP, up to which I was like “oh this is where it gets a little less crazy” until I saw that the ground started to explode and interact with other moves to not only cause timing differences but also to change hitboxes. I am wary of the promised “many other interactions”; it was doing so well without all of this stuff. Interesting to have a down smash be a movement one, and also to not hit behind him, which I feel is the far more promising application in the sense of nuanced differences than everything else here. Beyond the complication calc though, I do like it, although it seems somewhat clunky in getting the most out of it, which I have to assume is by design.
Up Smash: I’m into it, in that it seemed to be a literal change of pace, and def helps with his juggle (if not kill) game, which rounds him out and makes him more than just a charge machine. I was all ready to go off on the ToP changes making it needlessly complicated (how unusual a complaint of mine, I know) but then I realized that really it just adds another hit on the way down and a bit of range, and changes up the timing a tad. The interaction with the down smash is unnecessary (I mean, as you said, it almost turns into another special move from another character), but overall I think this is my favorite, most comprehensive smash move.
Standards:
Ok, as the moves get more straightforward (and I find myself behind on the self-imposed deadline for this comment), lightning round time, relatively speaking.
Jab: Fine, I mean, you’d need to get real nutty for the jab to be that weird, and I like the reset potential here. The aggressive neutral follow also tracks for his changes in playstyle for how the V-trigger is meant to work at all.
Forward tilt is also good, always good to set some variety on timing, in the nuts and bolts of a set, and positioning is an oft-forgotten aspect and can definitely play in well here with his down special in particular. I will say that the stun on shield in trigger seems, well, quite powerful and seem a far more, perhaps top much so, competent hit confirm move, but as best I can tell the timing doesn’t change so it’s not entirely wild (although the only true counterplay seems to be…hit him beforehand, right?)
Dtilt: I guess the kind of move I’d also point to for the above callout for a too centralized mechanic of trigger, but I guess it had to go in somewhere and hey, points for at least having a move which goes from real low to high based on it instead of just all being good>great (even if I still have my qualms with the centralization to begin with). A 50% power boost and combo potential, well, that’s pretty great. Perhaps a tad too great, being fast, good damage, and a combo starter, but hey, like I said, the gains gotta go somewhere.
Utilt: Not a ton to say, although Im glad you give him a non trigger starter right here, since as you say, it certainly lends itself to further follows in the air. As a battery combo, it can wind up being a *tad* set-play-y for opponents to download, but hey, thems the breaks if you go for it. A clever conceptualization to the question of how to get resources while not just being a straight forward singular move, as it also has its risks of being overplayed in the relative neutral.
Dash: Seems fine; as you say, a classic semi-laggy punish in the right situations. The range boost he gets when its triggered seems quite a bit, but it continues to be balanced out by the lagginess, which I like to see. What I’m less fond of is the embers effect; why does that need to be there? Just to give it an extra hitbox? I mean, I guess, but I think I would have liked it more if it didn’t have the latent flame. Same too with the dsmash interactions. These things can be fine in moderation, and if they present a unified change, but so far its like there are special secret moves from every interaction which players would need to keep in the back of their heads. It’s not even that it’s too many moves either, it’s that there are just so many option selects which can lead to them and they’re on the outskirts of the set focus. Which you could then say “Well Jaki, you were just earlier complaining about being too clustered”, which, yes, fair, but this doesn’t make it less clustered, it just adds another tertiary system on the sides alongside the existing questions I have about the construction of the set. System X affects moves A-H, then also secret system Q affects/causes moves XYZ, and by then although I don’t necessarily find it to be too complicated per-se, I do find it to be waffling between sticking to a concept and wanting to add thing on top of thing to the bits and pieces that make up that concept, pieces which are largely asides yet still burdened with all manner of secrets; the moons around the planets which orbit the main central star. This is all getting a little metaphorgotten, but hopefully I’ve made at least something of a point, as it’s a little hard to put into words and I retain the rights to edit this down the line. Point being: not a fan of these interactions just hanging out here.
Aerials:
Nair: Interesting lag mechanics on the meaty, and pretty cool to see it not reward short hops, although I have to wonder if the timing considerations with that will make it slightly too hard to use, since its not as likely to just happen automatically like if the lag was the other way around. Doubling the damage, just about, in trigger, well, you can guess what I’ll say. Also, weirdly variable damage formula here. Why? Just to have a balance of quicker lag = less damage? I mean, I guess, but sometimes, there doesn’t need to be a sidegrade shift in a move, and I think that’s overall the case here. A lil persnickety.
Dair: How far of a thrust does this give here? Are we saying its just a slight movement, or are we Dante doing some Killer Bee stuff? And then he…has a shockwave on landing? What does the 7% on landing come from, when he and his opponent hit the ground? Uncertain here. I guess if he needs to fall 4x Gdorf to cancel the move, that’s some crazy range for a normal. Unless he moves crazy fast, which would be unfair, that’s crazy meaty, which is also pretty unfair. I can see the specials combo working though, as you lay it out. Vtrigger makes sense, my usual concerns continue to apply here, and overall I wish some of the bonuses were transferred over to the normal version (and it not going nearly as long). Same issues with the down smash combinatorics too.
Fair: So so far it doesn’t seem like he has a top of options for opponents over him. I assume this was intentional, him being a relatively low height character, but considering your efforts to round him out in other ways, it does seem an odd blind spot. But, again, a presumably intentional one. I’d’ve thought this would be his dair, frankly. Vtrigger doesn’t get too crazy, so this is all…fair (haaaaaaaaaaaaaah).
Uair: Good for juggling, as you said, good for working with other tools, nothing super fancy here. The opposite of his, what was it, his dash? Where it got real buff in triggered mode? So I appreciate the mixup here.
Bair: Good punish move, good balance. This is pretty well done, and I think my favorite of the airs. The autocancels are neat, and I like the elegant balancing to keep it from being too ideal a shorthop move. This kind of trigger balancing I think is much, *much* more interesting, compared to making it faster/more powerful: adding an elegant option expansion; not necessarily selects, but amps up the application potential without making it another plane of complication.
Grabs:
Grab itself is fine, but…well, ok. So here’s my issue with V trigger. It makes every move *so* much better, that, besides for the fact that it raises the question of why have the option to use up a 3rd of it intentionally ever beyond that it was in the base game, but also it makes the balancing pretty unclear. Will they have trigger most of the time or not? One of those states is relatively overpowered, but the other state is either underpowered, which isn’t good, because that just makes the player weak, or it’s also fairly powerful, and so then you have a character who is already good just getting almost unilaterally better. I know that the better player will have it more, but that just makes the tilt that much more extreme. Considering the variation of power acquisition, how does one balance it? How is balance assessed? I’m inclined to believe that he is already pretty powerful, but then when he also gains a ranged tether grab, it’s like…when does it end? How is this being balanced? Lots of questions, and this is among my issues with the trigger mechanic: too feast or famine. Or at least, how I’m reading the character, feast or even bigger feast. I know it’s how Necalli works, but I also think that the meter implementation is a little bit better balanced there just by the nature of the game.
Bthrow: Fairly normal, like the tech chase aspect, like the turnaround. The down smash effects have the usual addendums, which is that I wish the effects were unified instead of just extra stuff for every single combination.
Dthrow: Weird utility stuff. Im unclear on why Necalli is able to heal himself. Now, Im not a Necalli main in SF5, but could he do that there? I don’t recall, but here is seems out of place. Healing stuff is usually for characters who at least have a bit of a heal-y aura, you know? Whereas Necalli decidedly does not. If he does heal himself in his game, disregard this, but as it stands, this just strikes me as a need to make a throw weird on a topline level, as opposed to something that makes sense for the character.
Fthrow: Here we go, the kill move. No strange effects here, no sir! This fits in with who he is, very straightforward, a blunt instrument means to the ends. Perhaps my favorite of all the throws. A littttle too powerful if triggered, but again, who knows how that should be evaluated from a balance perspective.
Uthrow: The aoe is a nice touch here, I do like that. Like a lot of his other up attacks, this is something I can see working particularly well with the rest of his set, which is fun since I also know (am guessing) that he’s meant to be more of a grounded character, as I’ve mentioned. The trigger version is very strange, more akin to a special move, and I would have to think that a through the shield move could set up for some dirty tricks…potentially too dirty, in fact. Also, does that mean that the damage does 1.2x to the shield? Interesting, and a little unclear. Still, mechanically unique, and straightforward enough that I think it works where it is.
So there you have it. A lot of this is rambly, I know, and while I don’t think it’s too complicated, I do have my questions about it. Mostly how it’s balanced, how Smash-y it is to have such a centered playstyle, and how practical a lot of these unique secret combinations would end up being. On a more base mechanics level, I guess the moves are fine, nothing mind-blowingly interesting, but it’s a cohesive set and the direction is clear (I do read the playstyle sections for these too, although in this case the move descriptions were also great just by themselves). I wish it was a little wilder and a little less “trying to translate a very normal 2D fighter into Smash and all those associated technical aspects”, but I guess that comes with the territory.
FrozenRoy
(May edit later for readability, as I am getting this out quite late)Stats:
These seem to make sense, although I’m confused by the wording of “more stout than Gdorf tall”. So he’s…wider than Gdorf is tall? That seems weird. I assume I’m reading it wrong. Seems slow, but I’ve read enough to know that this is by design and in line with his playstyle/moves. Air stuff looks good.
Specials:
Passive: So, a note on meter management in Smash before I get all into this. As I had mentioned in my other comment, it can be done. Countless characters have meters (my pedantry about cooldowns aside), and it can add an interesting element to a character. What does seem to be close to the baseline for Smash, however, is the linear application of meter, by which I mean, almost everything is the same cost. All of Cloud’s moves cost 1 meter. Little Mac’s super punch is 1 meter. Inklings have a weird system which I’m not 100% on the depletion rate, but I don’t believe it varies wildly. Robin *does* have multiple cost usages, but this is notably finicky among the playerbase, and the refill is governed by time, ie, it’s automatic.
All this to say that while there is precedent for multicost meters, it is unusual, and puts Necalli very much into a true meter (a resource which he manually charges) management (needs to balance the use for moves which utilize variable amounts) playstyle. Don’t read this paragraph and think this means I’m disqualifying Necalli right off the bat in my mind – I’m not – but rather that the bar for complexity is raised, something which is neither good nor bad but can occasionally be taken to…extremes.
Even beyond the MM component, I’m also concerned about the interconnected nature of this set; it seems to be focused around this mechanic in a way which few (but some) sets in the games are. Smash movesets are generally a little looser. Which isn’t to say there aren’t gameplans, but these gameplans develop naturally out of their toolset, as opposed to a formalized concepts of things like “mechanic A can make moves W, X, Y, Z into W’, X’, Y’, Z’ and forces state V and open up other moves B, C, (and D while in state V)”. Which, in that case, makes mechanic A uniquely into something which is both a really central and a really formalized approach to moves in a way that strikes me as somewhat anachronistic. I know that it does happen from time to time, which is why I say somewhat, but this alongside the aforementioned metering is something I’ll keep this in mind while assessing the rest of the set here.
Shield Special and all its many forms: For the tap, I like it, but I can’t help but feel like The Calling is something that might work best in the world of SF vs Smash. Which I guess is a mean way to open the paragraph, so let me explain. I get the sense that a move like this – a resource using 360 area attack shockwave with a sweetspot – would work better in a world where the players have a little less aerial mobility (as there’s less of an option to “go around” him, which still matters given the sweetspot), one where matching frame for advantage is more crucial to the play (vis-a-vis the importance here in a game with such comparatively large degrees of knockback and knockback control but I would have to think it’s lessened vs SF; I understand the concept of advantage quite well, just that I have to think it’s rather less of a consideration), and one where there are a few fewer goofy projectiles and disjointed hitboxes (which I do like about Smash, and there exists more than one projectile in SF, but I wish you expounded on the interactions here). None of which means I don’t like the move, because I do; I think it’s a fun pressure option, I just can’t help but thing that there are some aspects of the design here that might not translate as well as hoped. Also, interesting that it’s possible to be done without blocking an attack, which could open up some options with pre-emptive Calling. Presumably that would lead into a tech chase of sorts.
For the V-trigger, what is the distinction between tap and holding? Is it a charge sort of thing? A very small thing, but there’s a difference between tap>press>hold. Would an opponent be able to spot the hold to set up a react in the extremely safe window they see coming, since Calling can’t be used? Is it just a few frames off of tap? If it’s really close, I could see wrong moves coming out sometimes (which could be by design), and if it’s really far, then I could see a punish coming before the activate period proper begins (which could also be by design). Well, however it goes I suppose. Canceling the ending lag is nice, and I can see how that’d work with the rest of his set (wait, the ending lag canceling of a move requires that move to hit?), but (and I know this is from SFV), wow, the entire rest of the stock? These are some serious buffs he gets – speed, better air control, jump height, better moves all around…I know that this precludes the use of The Calling for the stock as well, but considering he gets a powerfully offensive *and* defensive projectile (which I am assuming doesn’t take any resources, as I see nothing about that, and I say defensively useful due to its beefy nature) to cover himself with, on top of the things I pointed out earlier, I at least would be trying to get to Torrent of Power right away. A brief anti-pressure burst isn’t really worth taking 33% longer to have a semi-permanent all-around buff unless the person is, but I don’t know, as of course I’ve never played this. Regardless, my summation for discussion on the shield-b component is overall: a tilt towards the dangerously complicated but not there yet; a lot of setups; one component I’m not sure if a 1:1-ish translation works as well as intended, and one where it seems the far better option given the translation questions.
Neutral special: As I understand it, this is a command grab which has a tapped version, an ex version (wait what), a v-triggered version, and an ex v-triggered version. That sounds like a lot, and others might assume that because of my noted dislike of complication, this is too much, but I think this is fine here. It’ll only ever be two at once, and they’re not so completely different as to be insane. The one tiny bit that’s even a little farther afield is the switch to an in bounce, but it’s eh. I’ll let it slide isn’t it’s still not that out there. Beyond that, I think the followups make sense, I think the way this works into a playstyle makes sense, and although I still maintain my worries that V-trig is just the outright better option with the untechable/armored nature on top of HoG, it at least makes sense. A 1.4x hitstun multiplier seems high though, I will say. Also it’s kinda hard to follow when you cite the down or side specials when those have yet to be introduced. Also also, what makes something “ex”? Did I miss something? Let me know if I did, but I didn’t see anything. The way you lay it out, I assume you mean press here, but see my earlier notes on that tricky business.
Side special: Ah, charge moves. The classic of the side b. Always fun to see that old chestnut of “different levels of charge do things beyond just increase range”. I’m also glad to see it’s punishable on whiff and all that, which I can tell plays into the, well, playstyle. Funky air control too, although I have to wonder if that kind of difference between the partial and fully charged versions will be all that parse-able until it actually happens – which is fine on one level, since there are plenty of moves out there whose real value/mixups are strictly at upper levels of play, but on another, if you’re going to set it up to be a good recovery option and it gains distance on charge, it seems real easy to accidentally go into full charge if not an upper level player and that could make the move seem finnicky. V-trig, much like all the other specials I’ve seen, give this a massive buff. The smash charge gets rid of a time commitment, and the double speed makes any timing harder to keep track of, which is a buff overall but could just as easily exacerbate the precise timing nature. I mean, why go partial distance? Someone would always (well, frequently, I imagine) want to go max distance, and if it’s going to be based on frame perfect timing to avoid the full charge 3/4th thing, good luck doing that at max speed consistently. Even for pros, I’d say. 22% chargeless damage at range with added shield damage is a lot though. For other bonuses, I must admit, I’m confused: you say that the V-triggered fully charged dash can punish the near shield break by…canceling into V-trigger? Isn’t the person already in that state? Am I reading this wrong? I’m assuming too from some of the wording that it gets even more punishable on whiff, which is a wise choice.
Down Special: So for the down spec, I used to have a whole chunk of text breaking down how I felt it was too much, too jam packed despite being comparatively simple, but in looking over it more and comparing it to the game, I don’t think it’s too bad. I think the tilt to aim aspect is a good tweak, one which makes sense within the larger context of the game as it’s known now, and can add a little mixup which fits in well while not going too crazy. Plus, mindgame potential, which is always good. I still worry that the powered up version is, well, too powered up, but I recognize that this is just the playstyle going for and obviously being powered up is the point.
Up Special: Pretty standard out of shield. There isn’t much to write about this, although I will say that this reminds me of The Calling, sans the full 360 degree coverage, as just a good get out of shield anti-pressure move. Obviously not the exact same, but some overlap, and really, just more reason that I’d imagine that, as I play this character, my gameplan would be to get to Torrent ASAP and only maybe use Calling in very specific last chance situations. Being worse in Torrent doesn’t really make those differences any larger, although I do at least appreciate the sidegrade aspect. Overall though, all of that aside, it seems fairly basic. Multi-hit up attack. Reminds me of screw attack, in a way, but perhaps a little beefier on the tail end. I mean it’s all balanced fine, but hmm. Kinda basic. I’m not sure what could be done to make it not basic outside of the application of ToP, considering the provenance of the character to begin with, so I guess it’s pretty good. I can certainly see it being a useful tool, and it works well within the scope of the set and the character (balancing issues nonwithstanding), so yeah, pretty good if basic. Hey, I guess I did have a bit to write.
So that’s my thoughts on the specials. Overall, I can see the playstyle, I can see the moves and how they work, I like them even if they are on the face mechanically a little basic, but we need a grappler character. I have my qualms with the complication arising from the many many many variants every move seems to have, on top of the meter system, on top of the balancing of The Calling vs ToP, on top of overall balancing questions, but none of the individual components seem entirely out of place. The powering up is clearly the basis of the playstyle, and it seems unfair to knock it time and time again, but it keeps me coming back to my :L face with this set:
Whether that playstyle is particularly Smash-like. I wouldn’t say too far outside the realm of possibility, although it is…unusual in it’s regard. You and I had a conversation earlier about the connective tissue of a moveset, and I maintain that a degree of diffusion can be a good thing: it can avoid set play, and leave things more open ended about how to go about to get there in the end, which is something I think Smash as a whole does well compared to, say, Killer Instinct (which I very much enjoy). Now, there are definite benefits to the whole affair; it ties things together, it serves a focal point for the design, but in the end, I’m not sure if that can quite overcome the more improv sense that Smash has in its design, that moves unconnected from others is more often the case than not. Anyway, this aside to say that while the moves are well done, and I can see how it plays into his moveset, I am not sure that the focus serves him the best in a way that most emphasizes the strengths of the game, and I lament that view of mine being re-enforced when I see that a move is again taking big power boosts from another, very formalized, semi-permanent mechanic. I know that some characters in the games already have moves that affect others, but it doesn’t seem to be quite this universal or sustained. *All this said* though, it’s less a question of being overly complicated and moreso a far more up-in-the-air interpretation of the core direction and gameplay construction of the series, and so I can’t ding it too too much (plus variety is the spice of life), and so although I may continue to call it out, it’s not *that* bad.
Smashes:
Forward Smash: Seems fine, and what I’d expect of a Necalli sort of character. The range is an interesting touch vs the GDorf comparison; that’s a definite buff, and a 10% less kill percent isn’t a colossal nerf, so on balance it seems to come out on top but again, it makes sense. For the held special combo, are you imagining that these are two charged moves in a row, since you call out the addendum about needing more damage with an uncharged forward smash? I’m assuming that a held special is referring to the ex version, as you mention it. That’s part of what makes the 1.4x multiple work, I’m sure, but it seems a little inorganic/set-play-y (just a tad).
Down Smash: A fine move, albeit one again somewhat overcomplicated/overpowered by ToP, up to which I was like “oh this is where it gets a little less crazy” until I saw that the ground started to explode and interact with other moves to not only cause timing differences but also to change hitboxes. I am wary of the promised “many other interactions”; it was doing so well without all of this stuff. Interesting to have a down smash be a movement one, and also to not hit behind him, which I feel is the far more promising application in the sense of nuanced differences than everything else here. Beyond the complication calc though, I do like it, although it seems somewhat clunky in getting the most out of it, which I have to assume is by design.
Up Smash: I’m into it, in that it seemed to be a literal change of pace, and def helps with his juggle (if not kill) game, which rounds him out and makes him more than just a charge machine. I was all ready to go off on the ToP changes making it needlessly complicated (how unusual a complaint of mine, I know) but then I realized that really it just adds another hit on the way down and a bit of range, and changes up the timing a tad. The interaction with the down smash is unnecessary (I mean, as you said, it almost turns into another special move from another character), but overall I think this is my favorite, most comprehensive smash move.
Standards:
Ok, as the moves get more straightforward (and I find myself behind on the self-imposed deadline for this comment), lightning round time, relatively speaking.
Jab: Fine, I mean, you’d need to get real nutty for the jab to be that weird, and I like the reset potential here. The aggressive neutral follow also tracks for his changes in playstyle for how the V-trigger is meant to work at all.
Forward tilt is also good, always good to set some variety on timing, in the nuts and bolts of a set, and positioning is an oft-forgotten aspect and can definitely play in well here with his down special in particular. I will say that the stun on shield in trigger seems, well, quite powerful and seem a far more, perhaps top much so, competent hit confirm move, but as best I can tell the timing doesn’t change so it’s not entirely wild (although the only true counterplay seems to be…hit him beforehand, right?)
Dtilt: I guess the kind of move I’d also point to for the above callout for a too centralized mechanic of trigger, but I guess it had to go in somewhere and hey, points for at least having a move which goes from real low to high based on it instead of just all being good>great (even if I still have my qualms with the centralization to begin with). A 50% power boost and combo potential, well, that’s pretty great. Perhaps a tad too great, being fast, good damage, and a combo starter, but hey, like I said, the gains gotta go somewhere.
Utilt: Not a ton to say, although Im glad you give him a non trigger starter right here, since as you say, it certainly lends itself to further follows in the air. As a battery combo, it can wind up being a *tad* set-play-y for opponents to download, but hey, thems the breaks if you go for it. A clever conceptualization to the question of how to get resources while not just being a straight forward singular move, as it also has its risks of being overplayed in the relative neutral.
Dash: Seems fine; as you say, a classic semi-laggy punish in the right situations. The range boost he gets when its triggered seems quite a bit, but it continues to be balanced out by the lagginess, which I like to see. What I’m less fond of is the embers effect; why does that need to be there? Just to give it an extra hitbox? I mean, I guess, but I think I would have liked it more if it didn’t have the latent flame. Same too with the dsmash interactions. These things can be fine in moderation, and if they present a unified change, but so far its like there are special secret moves from every interaction which players would need to keep in the back of their heads. It’s not even that it’s too many moves either, it’s that there are just so many option selects which can lead to them and they’re on the outskirts of the set focus. Which you could then say “Well Jaki, you were just earlier complaining about being too clustered”, which, yes, fair, but this doesn’t make it less clustered, it just adds another tertiary system on the sides alongside the existing questions I have about the construction of the set. System X affects moves A-H, then also secret system Q affects/causes moves XYZ, and by then although I don’t necessarily find it to be too complicated per-se, I do find it to be waffling between sticking to a concept and wanting to add thing on top of thing to the bits and pieces that make up that concept, pieces which are largely asides yet still burdened with all manner of secrets; the moons around the planets which orbit the main central star. This is all getting a little metaphorgotten, but hopefully I’ve made at least something of a point, as it’s a little hard to put into words and I retain the rights to edit this down the line. Point being: not a fan of these interactions just hanging out here.
Aerials:
Nair: Interesting lag mechanics on the meaty, and pretty cool to see it not reward short hops, although I have to wonder if the timing considerations with that will make it slightly too hard to use, since its not as likely to just happen automatically like if the lag was the other way around. Doubling the damage, just about, in trigger, well, you can guess what I’ll say. Also, weirdly variable damage formula here. Why? Just to have a balance of quicker lag = less damage? I mean, I guess, but sometimes, there doesn’t need to be a sidegrade shift in a move, and I think that’s overall the case here. A lil persnickety.
Dair: How far of a thrust does this give here? Are we saying its just a slight movement, or are we Dante doing some Killer Bee stuff? And then he…has a shockwave on landing? What does the 7% on landing come from, when he and his opponent hit the ground? Uncertain here. I guess if he needs to fall 4x Gdorf to cancel the move, that’s some crazy range for a normal. Unless he moves crazy fast, which would be unfair, that’s crazy meaty, which is also pretty unfair. I can see the specials combo working though, as you lay it out. Vtrigger makes sense, my usual concerns continue to apply here, and overall I wish some of the bonuses were transferred over to the normal version (and it not going nearly as long). Same issues with the down smash combinatorics too.
Fair: So so far it doesn’t seem like he has a top of options for opponents over him. I assume this was intentional, him being a relatively low height character, but considering your efforts to round him out in other ways, it does seem an odd blind spot. But, again, a presumably intentional one. I’d’ve thought this would be his dair, frankly. Vtrigger doesn’t get too crazy, so this is all…fair (haaaaaaaaaaaaaah).
Uair: Good for juggling, as you said, good for working with other tools, nothing super fancy here. The opposite of his, what was it, his dash? Where it got real buff in triggered mode? So I appreciate the mixup here.
Bair: Good punish move, good balance. This is pretty well done, and I think my favorite of the airs. The autocancels are neat, and I like the elegant balancing to keep it from being too ideal a shorthop move. This kind of trigger balancing I think is much, *much* more interesting, compared to making it faster/more powerful: adding an elegant option expansion; not necessarily selects, but amps up the application potential without making it another plane of complication.
Grabs:
Grab itself is fine, but…well, ok. So here’s my issue with V trigger. It makes every move *so* much better, that, besides for the fact that it raises the question of why have the option to use up a 3rd of it intentionally ever beyond that it was in the base game, but also it makes the balancing pretty unclear. Will they have trigger most of the time or not? One of those states is relatively overpowered, but the other state is either underpowered, which isn’t good, because that just makes the player weak, or it’s also fairly powerful, and so then you have a character who is already good just getting almost unilaterally better. I know that the better player will have it more, but that just makes the tilt that much more extreme. Considering the variation of power acquisition, how does one balance it? How is balance assessed? I’m inclined to believe that he is already pretty powerful, but then when he also gains a ranged tether grab, it’s like…when does it end? How is this being balanced? Lots of questions, and this is among my issues with the trigger mechanic: too feast or famine. Or at least, how I’m reading the character, feast or even bigger feast. I know it’s how Necalli works, but I also think that the meter implementation is a little bit better balanced there just by the nature of the game.
Bthrow: Fairly normal, like the tech chase aspect, like the turnaround. The down smash effects have the usual addendums, which is that I wish the effects were unified instead of just extra stuff for every single combination.
Dthrow: Weird utility stuff. Im unclear on why Necalli is able to heal himself. Now, Im not a Necalli main in SF5, but could he do that there? I don’t recall, but here is seems out of place. Healing stuff is usually for characters who at least have a bit of a heal-y aura, you know? Whereas Necalli decidedly does not. If he does heal himself in his game, disregard this, but as it stands, this just strikes me as a need to make a throw weird on a topline level, as opposed to something that makes sense for the character.
Fthrow: Here we go, the kill move. No strange effects here, no sir! This fits in with who he is, very straightforward, a blunt instrument means to the ends. Perhaps my favorite of all the throws. A littttle too powerful if triggered, but again, who knows how that should be evaluated from a balance perspective.
Uthrow: The aoe is a nice touch here, I do like that. Like a lot of his other up attacks, this is something I can see working particularly well with the rest of his set, which is fun since I also know (am guessing) that he’s meant to be more of a grounded character, as I’ve mentioned. The trigger version is very strange, more akin to a special move, and I would have to think that a through the shield move could set up for some dirty tricks…potentially too dirty, in fact. Also, does that mean that the damage does 1.2x to the shield? Interesting, and a little unclear. Still, mechanically unique, and straightforward enough that I think it works where it is.
So there you have it. A lot of this is rambly, I know, and while I don’t think it’s too complicated, I do have my questions about it. Mostly how it’s balanced, how Smash-y it is to have such a centered playstyle, and how practical a lot of these unique secret combinations would end up being. On a more base mechanics level, I guess the moves are fine, nothing mind-blowingly interesting, but it’s a cohesive set and the direction is clear (I do read the playstyle sections for these too, although in this case the move descriptions were also great just by themselves). I wish it was a little wilder and a little less “trying to translate a very normal 2D fighter into Smash and all those associated technical aspects”, but I guess that comes with the territory.
I wanted to read Necalli for some time and I can’t say I am disappointed. This set is another very cool take on a meter mechanic from you, this time applying the Street Fighter V V-Trigger meter fully to Smash Bros after softer implementations of characters like FANG and Balrog. This makes sense for Necalli as his entire set may as well change in V-Trigger mode and is an obvious choice to sell the V-Trigger mechanic, but this alone wouldn’t be enough for the set to be good. What makes the set good is that you execute a move-by-move buff based on the V-Trigger, and without need for much in the way of flash, construct a very simple, cool playstyle. I really enjoyed how you adapted moves like dspec and dsmash, porting over the functionality to a Smash context was awesome.
Mostly what I found interesting here is the use of the V-Trigger activation to immediately combo and makes any move safe, as this bridged the gap between the normal and V-Trigger sets. This means the entire set is opened up to potential combos as any normal move can be ended by going into V-Trigger, and as you point out in the playstyle, as is present throughout the whole set, the pressure Necalli can apply is a huge part of his playstyle. The pressure is a key to why fairly standard heavyweight moves, i.e. the bair, the nair, the fsmash, become deeper moves. The focus on shielding is pretty subtle, but one of the best shield games I’ve seen in a while, a smart focus for a set where a large part of the playstyle is an activation on the shield. It might sound too powerful to fully shield break in the way this set does it, but as is one of my favourite things in sets, this one manages to masterfully sell it as perfectly balanced.
I do think the set could’ve done with a few more moves like dsmash, and in fact that dsmash justified a spot in the specials, considering it comes up a few times. I thought as well the soul stealing in the throws was fairly under-utilized. Despite some negatives what’s interesting is how appealing it is that Necalli’s entire set undergoes absolute changes. Not only is the set buffed, his dsmash changes to a couple of satisfying walking stomps, his usmash completely changes, and his ftilt/utilt change dramatically too. These are all for the better of course, but not in an obvious or necessarily direct way and that’s the best part of the set. You’re never quite sure what direction his V-Trigger set will go in and it really feels like two entirely different sets at play, despite being almost identical. And that’s basically Necalli in SFV, so I’d say this is a resounding success. If nothing else it’s a perfect showcase of the V-Trigger meter system and no one could walk away reading the set and not understand how it works, which is itself very impressive. I liked the playstyle section too which I read in its entirety.
Mostly what I found interesting here is the use of the V-Trigger activation to immediately combo and makes any move safe, as this bridged the gap between the normal and V-Trigger sets. This means the entire set is opened up to potential combos as any normal move can be ended by going into V-Trigger, and as you point out in the playstyle, as is present throughout the whole set, the pressure Necalli can apply is a huge part of his playstyle. The pressure is a key to why fairly standard heavyweight moves, i.e. the bair, the nair, the fsmash, become deeper moves. The focus on shielding is pretty subtle, but one of the best shield games I’ve seen in a while, a smart focus for a set where a large part of the playstyle is an activation on the shield. It might sound too powerful to fully shield break in the way this set does it, but as is one of my favourite things in sets, this one manages to masterfully sell it as perfectly balanced.
I do think the set could’ve done with a few more moves like dsmash, and in fact that dsmash justified a spot in the specials, considering it comes up a few times. I thought as well the soul stealing in the throws was fairly under-utilized. Despite some negatives what’s interesting is how appealing it is that Necalli’s entire set undergoes absolute changes. Not only is the set buffed, his dsmash changes to a couple of satisfying walking stomps, his usmash completely changes, and his ftilt/utilt change dramatically too. These are all for the better of course, but not in an obvious or necessarily direct way and that’s the best part of the set. You’re never quite sure what direction his V-Trigger set will go in and it really feels like two entirely different sets at play, despite being almost identical. And that’s basically Necalli in SFV, so I’d say this is a resounding success. If nothing else it’s a perfect showcase of the V-Trigger meter system and no one could walk away reading the set and not understand how it works, which is itself very impressive. I liked the playstyle section too which I read in its entirety.
Petition to Rename Metal Sonic to 'Fonic'
8/10
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8/10
I don't recall off the top of my head any fragile speedsters with the power to swap to an even faster glass cannon, and it's pretty interesting. Fark is extremely fragile, as the set says multiple times, but he's got plenty of tools on hand to circumvent his paper weight. The Parry on NSpec is a neat idea, I don't think I've seen a counter take Just Frames into account before, and that's a very nice way to reward skillful play. The Burst Dash is a pretty simple movement aid, but it's solid and seems good and versatile. I adore what you did with the grounded Flash Step, that is an extremely novel way to depict a character moving faster than the eye can see, and it's fun gameplay wise. The aerial version is less interesting conceptually, but it does give Fark a compelling gameplay dilemma: does he burn through his Static to kill foes earlier, or does he hoard it greedily until he really needs it to recover? Granted, if he can successfully enter Super mode, he has no worries for a while, as he gains access to the max potential of his recovery free of charge, if only temporarily.
The standards are all good and solid, nothing particularly standout, but nothing bad either. The Smashes and their interplay with the Static gauge add to the offense/recovery dilemma in an interesting way, and give a properly-played Fark frightening capabilities at the cost of requiring expert Static management. Aerials and throws are also solid, with Fark's ludicrous speed lending the throws some very fun flavor. All in all, a nice set. Welcome back, Ivan!
Hi IQ and sorry about this being so late, same sentiment to all the sets from around when this time. Fark is certainly your best set, revolving around a Counter and Meter mechanic in an elegant, straightforward way. Fark doesn't have many fancy gimmicks, instead just having basic melee for the functional playstyle. This is an interesting change of pace after your sets have gotten downright bizarre in the recent past, but I like this new approach. It emphasizes a sense of balance that felt sorely missing in your old sets. Roy also touched on how this set is the biggest improvement yet in your sets and I have to agree there. Even if the set is pretty "dry" and I have very little to say in terms of substance, it's not got any glaring flaws.
The counter mechanic is a decent concept that isn't utilized all that often, if at all in Make Your Move. I really like the way the windows work to reward players landing the harder version and then feeding into the meter. My primary problem with the set is honestly how underwhelming the meter ends up being. I'm not asking for a web of interactions of buffs to each move per meter, but it's not particularly fun just creating weak projectiles on smash as your reward for precisely landing a counter. It's not like Fark is greatly suited for landing these counters either, he's so lightweight that a foe just charging a smash for a fraction longer and hitting him during counter's end lag likely means he's dead at Jigglypuff's weight. He really needs some bigger rewards for the meter for landing counters, as is he's pretty underpowered.
The set overall is a strong foundation however. The down special super form is good enough, again I felt like it wasn't utilized all that well in the set (maybe if it gave some extra mobility for his aerials or standards and didn't rely on range). I also didn't get a ton of personality out of the set, other than him being kind of annoying in the same way as most Sonic and Sonic-esque characters who are like mosquitoes to other fighters. It's not bad at all and even if it has been a while since posted I hope you have other sets up your sleeve.
The counter mechanic is a decent concept that isn't utilized all that often, if at all in Make Your Move. I really like the way the windows work to reward players landing the harder version and then feeding into the meter. My primary problem with the set is honestly how underwhelming the meter ends up being. I'm not asking for a web of interactions of buffs to each move per meter, but it's not particularly fun just creating weak projectiles on smash as your reward for precisely landing a counter. It's not like Fark is greatly suited for landing these counters either, he's so lightweight that a foe just charging a smash for a fraction longer and hitting him during counter's end lag likely means he's dead at Jigglypuff's weight. He really needs some bigger rewards for the meter for landing counters, as is he's pretty underpowered.
The set overall is a strong foundation however. The down special super form is good enough, again I felt like it wasn't utilized all that well in the set (maybe if it gave some extra mobility for his aerials or standards and didn't rely on range). I also didn't get a ton of personality out of the set, other than him being kind of annoying in the same way as most Sonic and Sonic-esque characters who are like mosquitoes to other fighters. It's not bad at all and even if it has been a while since posted I hope you have other sets up your sleeve.
Fark.com (Fark the Electric Jester @IvanQuote)
Instantly, a recommendation: Fark should be able to use the weaker Up Special even if he has more than 1/5th charge, since it seems useful and would be fun. I would make it so that holding down B gives you the invisible version (not necessarily through the whole thing, just like to start a smash charge) while a tap B gives you the quick chop. Also, Dash Attack needs an explanation on what "its priority" means, since a multihitting move like that would have "low priority" (as priority is just how much damage the attack does). The same is true of the NAir: A multihitting move with a bunch of weak hits is unlikely to clash with most things. Also, you can't clash with moves when both are in the air.
This is your best set unless I am forgetting one, largely I feel due to being more grounded. Gone are the mass amounts of pitfalls and stun is kept low, instead the focus is on giving Fark a healthy melee game and playing off a centerpiece mechanic more strongly. I liked stuff like the Down Aerial being an aerial juggle tool against grounded opponents and the grasp on comboing and giving Fark a kind of juggle focus ('CAUSE HE'S A JESTER, HA HA), mentions of dragging the opponent off which is risky and so on. The counter being Fark's way to fill up his bar is interesting (and heavily reminds me of my Iku Nagae set!) and in the context of this set encourages Fark to play more aggressively to try to get the foe to react and in turn counter it. The payoff is reasonable as well: The Super Mode is pretty strong, not super flashy but works well, and I like investing in the Smash Attacks or Up Special. The Smash Attack investment does seem perhaps slightly weak, although the Down Smash is pretty strong and Forward Smash's damage is very strong so I might be wrong there. I can definitely see where more could have been done with Up Smash or doing more with it and the other moves, but simplifying it to start with is probably fine and naturally this is a 5k challenge set so considering the confines (4,998 words!) it did just fine.
As a 5k set, it also is a bit shorter to comment. The melee is commendable and fine, but not amazing: You can definitely find a lot of sets with deeper melee both for the foe to play with and the player. At the same time I could see this put into Smash with no issues and being fun to play. The mechanic is interesting enough and explored well enough to enjoy, but could easily be expanded and improved. It's just a solid, above average set that will hopefully fill up votelists nicely.
Instantly, a recommendation: Fark should be able to use the weaker Up Special even if he has more than 1/5th charge, since it seems useful and would be fun. I would make it so that holding down B gives you the invisible version (not necessarily through the whole thing, just like to start a smash charge) while a tap B gives you the quick chop. Also, Dash Attack needs an explanation on what "its priority" means, since a multihitting move like that would have "low priority" (as priority is just how much damage the attack does). The same is true of the NAir: A multihitting move with a bunch of weak hits is unlikely to clash with most things. Also, you can't clash with moves when both are in the air.
This is your best set unless I am forgetting one, largely I feel due to being more grounded. Gone are the mass amounts of pitfalls and stun is kept low, instead the focus is on giving Fark a healthy melee game and playing off a centerpiece mechanic more strongly. I liked stuff like the Down Aerial being an aerial juggle tool against grounded opponents and the grasp on comboing and giving Fark a kind of juggle focus ('CAUSE HE'S A JESTER, HA HA), mentions of dragging the opponent off which is risky and so on. The counter being Fark's way to fill up his bar is interesting (and heavily reminds me of my Iku Nagae set!) and in the context of this set encourages Fark to play more aggressively to try to get the foe to react and in turn counter it. The payoff is reasonable as well: The Super Mode is pretty strong, not super flashy but works well, and I like investing in the Smash Attacks or Up Special. The Smash Attack investment does seem perhaps slightly weak, although the Down Smash is pretty strong and Forward Smash's damage is very strong so I might be wrong there. I can definitely see where more could have been done with Up Smash or doing more with it and the other moves, but simplifying it to start with is probably fine and naturally this is a 5k challenge set so considering the confines (4,998 words!) it did just fine.
As a 5k set, it also is a bit shorter to comment. The melee is commendable and fine, but not amazing: You can definitely find a lot of sets with deeper melee both for the foe to play with and the player. At the same time I could see this put into Smash with no issues and being fun to play. The mechanic is interesting enough and explored well enough to enjoy, but could easily be expanded and improved. It's just a solid, above average set that will hopefully fill up votelists nicely.
Wario Deluxe was great if only to break the monotony of a dead period. It’s very very dead. In that context I find it hard to be too critical of the set’s downfalls and I’m just glad I could read a new set, as this has its fun moments. Obviously the most fun part is the characterisation and I’ve always tended to enjoy your sets for zany characters. You did a perfect job here of making it not be either a generic clone of Wario and not losing the essence of the character by going too far in the other direction. Though frankly you could’ve gone way further into the tacky area than you did on Wario Deluxe and that’d be a far better set, but I’m not complaining because that might’ve been awful.
I really don’t like the nair “Easter egg.” That’s like calling tripping an Easter egg. The smashes are weirdly Specials Lite when his specials aren’t exactly mind-blowing, between a generic passive damaging hitbox he farts out and a projectile that makes the foe intangible. It’s not hard to see how you’d just put the new fart on say, down smash and move the far more important sounding bombs to specials. I don’t disapprove of smashes trying to be creative at all, but they shouldn’t outshine the specials.
In the end, I also find it hard to see what the greater point of the set it outside of a rather perfunctory remake for Wario. It’s still the best Wario set we’ve had considering the ancient Warlord one and the awkward Brostulip one. It’s surprising how much it feels like a general remix of Wario’s set than trying anything too wacky considering this form of the character. Shouldn’t he be I don’t know, summoning some crazy minigame prop? If anything it’s less cartoony than regular Smash 4 Wario. I guess that might say something more for Sakurai’s own design of Wario and I’m no expert, but I digress. Solid overall set.
I really don’t like the nair “Easter egg.” That’s like calling tripping an Easter egg. The smashes are weirdly Specials Lite when his specials aren’t exactly mind-blowing, between a generic passive damaging hitbox he farts out and a projectile that makes the foe intangible. It’s not hard to see how you’d just put the new fart on say, down smash and move the far more important sounding bombs to specials. I don’t disapprove of smashes trying to be creative at all, but they shouldn’t outshine the specials.
In the end, I also find it hard to see what the greater point of the set it outside of a rather perfunctory remake for Wario. It’s still the best Wario set we’ve had considering the ancient Warlord one and the awkward Brostulip one. It’s surprising how much it feels like a general remix of Wario’s set than trying anything too wacky considering this form of the character. Shouldn’t he be I don’t know, summoning some crazy minigame prop? If anything it’s less cartoony than regular Smash 4 Wario. I guess that might say something more for Sakurai’s own design of Wario and I’m no expert, but I digress. Solid overall set.
Charles Martinet on Payday
8/10
8/10
Wario Deluxe is definitely the most interesting part of Warioware Gold, and it's nice to see you put him to use, @Bionichute. Deluxe is a fun remix of the Wario we all know and love(?), with some fun ideas all around. His Specials and Smashes are all fairly interesting, and build on vanilla Wario nicely while simultaneously bringing in fresh ideas. I personally feel like Deluxe Waft and Mysterious Purple Liquid could probably swap inputs? But otherwise, I don't really see many issues with the set. Oh, NAir's Easter Egg hitbox is... odd. You could perhaps make it weaker, but trigger any time a foe hits a very small hitbox on Deluxe's crown, maybe? All in all, I don't... have a lot to say about this set; it's a fun, solid remix with some fun mechanics, and it adapts the first true Warioware boss rather nicely. Good work!
Fritz and Dr. Neurosis was not nearly as bad as I expected when you outright said it was made to restart your creative juices. It’s very flawed, but has a very interesting core idea of having a stationary “boss” who your playable character has to defend, at the same time not damaging them using your own set. The first special, while unpolished, does a great job of realizing this as a fun playstyle. Same goes for the hook command grab. The numbers are a little wonky and yet this is legitimately fresh. Again a command grab that can heal the “boss” is another cool idea that’s not polished enough to be really cool.
The dthrow is just unfun as a general rule though it’s not even unfitting for Smash when we have throws like ROB’s dthrow now, so it’s not the worst filler. Besides all the shorter moves, obviously I’d like to see more Dr. Neurosis rather than just Fritz. It’s blatant that Dr. Neurosis could either be involved in certain moves, or hell why not just have Dr. Neurosis follow around Fritz like Pokémon Trainer somehow? Levitating head jar maybe? For a set that outright states it’s just practice, this isn’t unfun to read anyway which is a huge positive in that context. It reminded me of a lot of ideas I had about similar characters like The Master from Fallout that eventually turned into Ameno-sagiri. Imagining a character similar to Mother Brain as part of a moveset is very fun. I might take a crack at something like that in the future.
The dthrow is just unfun as a general rule though it’s not even unfitting for Smash when we have throws like ROB’s dthrow now, so it’s not the worst filler. Besides all the shorter moves, obviously I’d like to see more Dr. Neurosis rather than just Fritz. It’s blatant that Dr. Neurosis could either be involved in certain moves, or hell why not just have Dr. Neurosis follow around Fritz like Pokémon Trainer somehow? Levitating head jar maybe? For a set that outright states it’s just practice, this isn’t unfun to read anyway which is a huge positive in that context. It reminded me of a lot of ideas I had about similar characters like The Master from Fallout that eventually turned into Ameno-sagiri. Imagining a character similar to Mother Brain as part of a moveset is very fun. I might take a crack at something like that in the future.
Welcome to MYM Kafka and good to have you aboard. Zoroark shows you have a strong grasp on the fundamentals of moveset design and is a professional production (outside of the [something] in the down special). You have good ideas for how to adapt the Pokémon’s core moves and while I’m not going to delve into how fitting these moves are, like if they’re in his learn set, nothing stood out as weird to me for Zoroark. The core Illusory Charge mechanic is smart both for its simplicity in execution and for giving a core mechanic for Zoroark who always was a character I’d expect to have such a mechanic. Like Lucario and his aura, it’s inevitable Zoroark has his own thing.
A nitpick: you didn’t absolutely need to use Pokémon moves for move names when they’re not related to the Pokémon move. Doesn’t really matter but it’s annoying for purists about that kind of thing.
The shield special is fairly pointless and I don’t like it or forward smash’s function. The shield special just gives Zoroark a way to camp and add to his mechanic passively forcing the foe’s approach. The punishment isn’t all that bad when he can safely use it in down time such as when the foe is respawning or he’s thrown them a fair distance, frankly defeating the point of the playstyle in waiting out your charges. The forward smash improving upon there being fewer charges struck me as counter-intuitive. The playstyle’s meant to be building up charges then you want less this one time? It’d make more sense if he had an after-effect of using his charges where he got buffed as a universal mechanic, rather than whenever he has none period. That or another way to work off the mechanic would’ve helped the set’s depth.
My main issue with the set is it is on the shallow side for its playstyle. It has good balance, presentation, it’s in character, but it’s a very basic playstyle of charging up a mechanic to buff his moveset. You only need to look at JOE!’s set (link) to see that Zoroark can have a very creative playstyle, but for your first set, this is a really impressive start. Hope you enjoy MYM Kafka.
A nitpick: you didn’t absolutely need to use Pokémon moves for move names when they’re not related to the Pokémon move. Doesn’t really matter but it’s annoying for purists about that kind of thing.
The shield special is fairly pointless and I don’t like it or forward smash’s function. The shield special just gives Zoroark a way to camp and add to his mechanic passively forcing the foe’s approach. The punishment isn’t all that bad when he can safely use it in down time such as when the foe is respawning or he’s thrown them a fair distance, frankly defeating the point of the playstyle in waiting out your charges. The forward smash improving upon there being fewer charges struck me as counter-intuitive. The playstyle’s meant to be building up charges then you want less this one time? It’d make more sense if he had an after-effect of using his charges where he got buffed as a universal mechanic, rather than whenever he has none period. That or another way to work off the mechanic would’ve helped the set’s depth.
My main issue with the set is it is on the shallow side for its playstyle. It has good balance, presentation, it’s in character, but it’s a very basic playstyle of charging up a mechanic to buff his moveset. You only need to look at JOE!’s set (link) to see that Zoroark can have a very creative playstyle, but for your first set, this is a really impressive start. Hope you enjoy MYM Kafka.
Lucario's More Interesting, Less Marketed Cousin
6/10
6/10
Welcome to MYM,
KafkaKomedy
! Always nice to see a new face out and about! Zoroark is pretty straightforward, and it's remarkably solid for a debut set, so congratulations are in order there. You have a nice head for the fundamentals, and Zoroark generally FEELS like a solid competitor; I'd say he's fairly "In-Smash" in that he doesn't do TOO much that's too outlandish for actual Smash. That said, I do have a few nitpicks, mainly revolving around Illusion. Simply put... I would really like to see Illusion DO more. As it stands, the best bang for your buck is to exclusively use charges on DSpec. While that's fine in and of itself... it would be nice to have some more functional uses for charges than just Dspec. Just as a suggestion, perhaps tapping B while charging a Smash could consume a charge and add some effect? You could even address Smash Daddy's complaint with FSmash by making the much stronger slashes work this way; heck, have it consume all your current charges like DSpec does. Other than my issues with Illusion, I rather feel like the set is solid; the only other eyebrow raising choice is the chip damage effect on FTilt of all moves. Not a bad effect, truly it's pretty interesting in a Smash context, but it feels... odd to have it on a single standard. I don't feel it warrants changing, but if you revisit that concept in the future, I'd love to see it expanded in a Special or perhaps even a set's central mechanic. All in all? I'd say this is a very good debut set. Keep up the good work, I hope to see more from you in the future!Not Your Average JOEoark (Zoroark
KafkaKomedy
)
Zoroark's illusions are a reasonable interesting mechanic, forcing a DI mixup whenever he's hit after a period of not getting hit or attaining his Shield Special for a charge of it. He can alternately use it to power up some of his moves. Clean stuff. I wish it was used more and in a few more ways, though: All of the uses for it are pretty much "You don't know which Zoroark is which when used", I would have been interested in some mixups after hitting, or even spending it on stuff that isn't mixups (Snarl is the one that does this kind of). I also somewhat find what the stacks were used on underwhelming, and I'm not sure why Zoroark has a mini-stunning roar to begin with. Payback actually feels like more of a Special and fitting, perhaps if it was expanded or changed such as giving it more than just raw damage for having no stacks (which would add more incentive for some alternative play). Also, illusionary tricks being available with Zoroark's divekick would have been sick and helped elevate it from a more standard divekick.
Back Throw is really bad and what we would term "tacky": An effect which seems tacked on and not fitting the character or animation and so on and so forth. Why can Zoroark kill any buffs, especially with just a simple slash? Not even, like, darkness-y looks or anything, just a slash. It's pretty bad. Leaving that aside, the fact that buffs listed include stuff like rage and no real idea of what it is lead to extremely unbalanced implications. Can Zoroark just flatout kill Lucaro's aura? Not to mention stuff like Cloud's Limit Break, which is extremely broken to just remove. To be honest, it is pretty much never a good idea to throw a buff destroying move on a throw casually without some good reason. I would remove this entirely and rework the throw. If you want a far out example of what buff and debuff purging can do, my Medea set from MYM20 uses it as a core mechanic. And Jamie's MYM19 Magearna set used status effect SWAPPING as a core idea while being more sane than my Medea set.
Forward Tilt's chip damage is neat, but I do think it should have a bit more use outside of it, Leading from that, this moveset in general could use a stronger sense of playstyle, especially outside of the Specials. The basics of the set are fine: Be tricksy, get the foe to shield incorrectly and to evade them for charges or whatnot, but most of the set doesn't lead into much aside from a few combo moves. Forward Tilt works on shields, sure, but what other moves does Zoroark have to mess with shields? What about, say, a move Zoroark has that is good but weak to shields and thus makes opponents WANT to shield more (F-Smash doesn't count as much because of its requirements of no stacks), and then Zoroark can sucker punch their shield when they least expect it! And so on and so forth. It doesn't feel like Zoroark has much interesting to him when he does play his gameplan, perhaps in part because I found the execution on the non-base stuff of the illusions somewhat weak. His defensive side could also be made more interesting with more defensive options and deeper thought on that end aside from "he has a lot of out of shield options". What does a divekick add to Zoroark's playstyle much, for example?
The throws in particular are super barebones, pretty much filling up a checklist of "what throws do you put in a grab game". I wonder if there would be a way to work the illusions here, like a "fake" throw or mixing it up where Zoroark is after throwing an opponent or something. On a more minor note, I would probably make the air Up Special into a grounded one as it could be interesting and feels a bit less cloned: It also would either allow them to be the same or perhaps allow you to change up the aerial version as the fact Zoroark has to go down feels somewhat awkward for recovering since it doesn't seem D3 Jump Big.
Ultimately, Snatch heavily brings down a set with an interesting premise but not enough else to support it. It's still a lot better than a lot of first set offerings, so where you go from here will be interesting. Don't give up!
KafkaKomedy
)Zoroark's illusions are a reasonable interesting mechanic, forcing a DI mixup whenever he's hit after a period of not getting hit or attaining his Shield Special for a charge of it. He can alternately use it to power up some of his moves. Clean stuff. I wish it was used more and in a few more ways, though: All of the uses for it are pretty much "You don't know which Zoroark is which when used", I would have been interested in some mixups after hitting, or even spending it on stuff that isn't mixups (Snarl is the one that does this kind of). I also somewhat find what the stacks were used on underwhelming, and I'm not sure why Zoroark has a mini-stunning roar to begin with. Payback actually feels like more of a Special and fitting, perhaps if it was expanded or changed such as giving it more than just raw damage for having no stacks (which would add more incentive for some alternative play). Also, illusionary tricks being available with Zoroark's divekick would have been sick and helped elevate it from a more standard divekick.
Back Throw is really bad and what we would term "tacky": An effect which seems tacked on and not fitting the character or animation and so on and so forth. Why can Zoroark kill any buffs, especially with just a simple slash? Not even, like, darkness-y looks or anything, just a slash. It's pretty bad. Leaving that aside, the fact that buffs listed include stuff like rage and no real idea of what it is lead to extremely unbalanced implications. Can Zoroark just flatout kill Lucaro's aura? Not to mention stuff like Cloud's Limit Break, which is extremely broken to just remove. To be honest, it is pretty much never a good idea to throw a buff destroying move on a throw casually without some good reason. I would remove this entirely and rework the throw. If you want a far out example of what buff and debuff purging can do, my Medea set from MYM20 uses it as a core mechanic. And Jamie's MYM19 Magearna set used status effect SWAPPING as a core idea while being more sane than my Medea set.
Forward Tilt's chip damage is neat, but I do think it should have a bit more use outside of it, Leading from that, this moveset in general could use a stronger sense of playstyle, especially outside of the Specials. The basics of the set are fine: Be tricksy, get the foe to shield incorrectly and to evade them for charges or whatnot, but most of the set doesn't lead into much aside from a few combo moves. Forward Tilt works on shields, sure, but what other moves does Zoroark have to mess with shields? What about, say, a move Zoroark has that is good but weak to shields and thus makes opponents WANT to shield more (F-Smash doesn't count as much because of its requirements of no stacks), and then Zoroark can sucker punch their shield when they least expect it! And so on and so forth. It doesn't feel like Zoroark has much interesting to him when he does play his gameplan, perhaps in part because I found the execution on the non-base stuff of the illusions somewhat weak. His defensive side could also be made more interesting with more defensive options and deeper thought on that end aside from "he has a lot of out of shield options". What does a divekick add to Zoroark's playstyle much, for example?
The throws in particular are super barebones, pretty much filling up a checklist of "what throws do you put in a grab game". I wonder if there would be a way to work the illusions here, like a "fake" throw or mixing it up where Zoroark is after throwing an opponent or something. On a more minor note, I would probably make the air Up Special into a grounded one as it could be interesting and feels a bit less cloned: It also would either allow them to be the same or perhaps allow you to change up the aerial version as the fact Zoroark has to go down feels somewhat awkward for recovering since it doesn't seem D3 Jump Big.
Ultimately, Snatch heavily brings down a set with an interesting premise but not enough else to support it. It's still a lot better than a lot of first set offerings, so where you go from here will be interesting. Don't give up!
I see you're giving Paper Mario another shot. Love the visuals!
While I can understand the controversy in kicking everything off with Paint and Cards, Color Splash doesn't extend beyond being an RoA Shovel Knight-esque shop system tied to the hammer and I think the general consensus can be happy that Sticker Star never sees the light of day here. Though partners are locked behind cards and grabs, the partnerless inputs they clear room for are interesting and cohesive enough for this to not be a major issue. But representation aside, what do I think of the actual mechanics of the set?
Well, It was certainly interesting how much Ultimate's mechanics were brought up: from directional airdodges to zair sweetspots to even weird cross-up mechanics, it was impressive how much you embraced the new engine. The fact that you even gave delaying fully charged smash attacks relevance with the whole "release them at exactly one second" reward shows how dedicated you were in marrying this set to Ultimate.
It was heartwarming to see you, unlike Rex and Pyra, provide benefits for not playing the "right way". What I mean specifically is encouraging options like placing Bobbery in the opponent's face or not using hammer attacks over nonhammer ones in comboes by making most of them more difficult to hit with. Instead of limiting or discouraging these options, you acknowledged them, and that's cool.
There were a lot of things in this set that were creative without feeling tacky. I was a particular fan of how interesting the grab game was, what with all of the interesting options to start an edgegaurd (Parakarry and Yoshi Kid) and Back Throw's timing varying between characters to keep things fresh, though more of an incentive to intentionally not charge the hammer beyond the shaky "it may catch foes off guard" feels like a missed opportunity. On the topic of action commands, I found the Hammer Throw's follow-up timing an especially intriguing way to translate the mechanic into Smash while providing an interesting gamble between getting even more mileage off of the first hit or forfeiting the advantage that same first hit provided during neutral.
I could continue to gush but for the sake of time and length I'll end here. Besides some nitpicks like Lackiester not feeling especially relevant, I think this was a great set. Astronomically better than your first Paper Mario.
While I can understand the controversy in kicking everything off with Paint and Cards, Color Splash doesn't extend beyond being an RoA Shovel Knight-esque shop system tied to the hammer and I think the general consensus can be happy that Sticker Star never sees the light of day here. Though partners are locked behind cards and grabs, the partnerless inputs they clear room for are interesting and cohesive enough for this to not be a major issue. But representation aside, what do I think of the actual mechanics of the set?
Well, It was certainly interesting how much Ultimate's mechanics were brought up: from directional airdodges to zair sweetspots to even weird cross-up mechanics, it was impressive how much you embraced the new engine. The fact that you even gave delaying fully charged smash attacks relevance with the whole "release them at exactly one second" reward shows how dedicated you were in marrying this set to Ultimate.
It was heartwarming to see you, unlike Rex and Pyra, provide benefits for not playing the "right way". What I mean specifically is encouraging options like placing Bobbery in the opponent's face or not using hammer attacks over nonhammer ones in comboes by making most of them more difficult to hit with. Instead of limiting or discouraging these options, you acknowledged them, and that's cool.
There were a lot of things in this set that were creative without feeling tacky. I was a particular fan of how interesting the grab game was, what with all of the interesting options to start an edgegaurd (Parakarry and Yoshi Kid) and Back Throw's timing varying between characters to keep things fresh, though more of an incentive to intentionally not charge the hammer beyond the shaky "it may catch foes off guard" feels like a missed opportunity. On the topic of action commands, I found the Hammer Throw's follow-up timing an especially intriguing way to translate the mechanic into Smash while providing an interesting gamble between getting even more mileage off of the first hit or forfeiting the advantage that same first hit provided during neutral.
I could continue to gush but for the sake of time and length I'll end here. Besides some nitpicks like Lackiester not feeling especially relevant, I think this was a great set. Astronomically better than your first Paper Mario.
Before I get into this, I want to break down a bit of how I approach these. What I’m looking for is three things at first:
-How well does it fit in Smash: Does it seem like it’s a bunch of Smash moves, or is this an ASW game. To this end, there is a sort of “maximum complication” calculus I do; any given move in Smash 4 (or Ultimate) can be very complicated, but very rarely do we see every move be very complicated. Some characters might have Smash specials or ranged smash moves, but it’s less common that, say, every special can be smashed. With system elegance being a prime consideration for the series, this is key.
-How well does the character get represented: Are they doing something entirely crazy? Is it all out of, well, character? Is it focusing only on one aspect of the character and not really the entirety of what they represent (not what they can do, as characters typically can do quite a bit more moves than a Smash set allows).
-Is it mechanically interesting: We might have a character who only shoots bullets, and that’s certainly not a particularly wonky move, but if there’s nothing but linear projectiles, that’s…uh…less positive. Add detail! Moves can get canceled out, moves can have special properties, and moves can work in unexpected ways. Also I mean here is that simply adding a bunch of status effects to something which is otherwise quite basic, well, that can seem like a crutch to me. If it’s 3 types of lasers, one with fire, one with dark, and one with freeze, well, why not mix it up? The balancing act here with point 1 is tricky but pretty important.
And then I go from there. Those 3 areas aren’t to call out anyone, just wanted to give an intro before I get into the swing of things with Paper Mario by
Munomario777
(does that work?).
So right off the bat, I like the stats. All makes sense for PM, all what I remember, all good so far.
It’s the passives it starts to get weird. The use of meters/ammo/secondary resources which are gained beyond cooldowns in Smash requires, in my view, a very deft touch, and the fact that this is used a currency to essentially open up an in-game store using a very rare Shield B to then unlock *eight different buffs and other special moves* is way, *way* past what I’d consider to be natural in Smash. While there may be the occasional Smash character who has some degree of things like this – Robin with ammo, Inklings with shield B (and ammo), Pac-Man/G&W with one-move-contains-multitudes, and Cloud with “meter which transforms various other moves”, no one combines all of those, and none of them are to this extent. Pac-Man still throws a projectile; Cloud’s moves are basically amped versions of what they normally are. Maybe there's more from a character I'm not as familiar with, but those come to mind.
These are entirely new, or at minimum a significant change up (often individually more complicated than many other Smash moves), and there’s 8 of them. Never mind how wonky this would be to play – if it’s a circular menu, that could still mean Shield+B+3 control stick movements+A (presumably while stationary) to queue up these attacks. Even being aware that you need to get a resource to fuel this, this would instantly place Paper Mario in the absolute upper echelon of difficult to play and learn, far higher than any other character.
Side B: An arcing projectile by itself is somewhat standard, although here is can be Smash’d as well. The fact that it makes paint into an item is…well, I guess it’s unique, but it seems kinda clunky. I know the tactic is to chase down the paint after it generates and create a sort of “area denial” section of the fight, but…that strikes me as a tad too central to just feed into an ammo meter. I mean it’s fine, it's done in things like Pac-Man and ROB, and I can see why you did it, but it’s almost like a more of a MOBA ability than a fighting game one, to be stacked on top of the Smash *and* timing attributes. It feels like the aspects here are individually interesting as they work within the broader framework of the character, but on a single-move level, kinda diffuse.
Neutral B: A buff, followed by a Side-B link (which is fine, and helps alleviate some of the trouble I have with the Side B, although it still seems a little…much for ammo and not a central mechanism of area defense). The buff by itself seems a little simple, although less so with the timed hits thing, which you’d think would be a balance alongside the three other NB options, but because so much of the time you’ll just have the NB, it makes me want a little more within the move itself, outside of how it fuels the…uh…differences as driven by the paint engine. I’m not going to discuss the card specials for this except to say that they are by a one fine, but all together as special selects, well, still in a bit of a need of paring. Also: the timed hits come from A+B attacks, and then need to be timed hit with B? That sounds…involved.
Up B: This is probably my favorite special move. First, the basic mechanics of the move, as I understand it, is: intangible free travel w/ reflects on either side. This is pretty unique among Smash characters, and the double reflect could have some interesting play. The timed hits aren’t crowded together with charge/Smash/meter/partners, and overall I think it works quite well.
Down B: My second favorite special – a movement buff which is a little more involved than “more movement”. Has weaknesses too! Always like that balancing approach. The fact that it parries is a little weird (I’m not sure how much I agree with the premise of “every special needs a timed version”), but it’s nothing too out there. I’m a fan here.
So that’s my thoughts on the specials. All in all, while there are some which I think well, this is a bit much. You see Mario doing area control, and charge Bs, and AI partners which can be defused, and timed hits for almost every move, and ammo control, and Smash specials, and switching out specials, and a Shield-B secret shop with 4 other moves, and I can’t help but wish that it was tied together more elegantly. This needs to be roughly a third as complicated to make sense for Smash and as it stands now it kinda just blends together in a case of “everything and the kitchen sink and also that sink has a gun with option selects”.
Normals: Im not sure that giving up ammo-making makes a 1 frame, potentially speed boosted and(?)/or copied move all that fair. The range is fair, but alongside the speed boost, very much the sort of thing I could see being a far too easy hit confirm series, and that goes along the limited knockback as well. Hammer is fine, Tube is mostly fine (going low profile as long as the player wants into a low ending lag uppercut? interesting), Spin is fine, Twirl is…also mostly fine (I get the sense that between the copy and the speed all of this is up in the air anyway).
Grab: A ranged grab, zair, and a buff? Besides the fact that Thoreau is from the main series…why? Seemed like a normal grab to begin with. Two forward throws seems a tad redundant, but I was never much one who got all the nuances of grab games so who knows. Memorizing timing for every character in the game for the back through does seem…unusual though. Nothing as much as the specials, but unusual. Everything else is fine and well detailed, and I like the ideas for chase/follows you lay out here.
Smashes: This seems open to exploiting, all this “whiff gets paint” stuff. Not completely outside the realm of possibility within Smash (several other characters do something similar), but just something that comes to mind when considering a character whose missed normal attacks make them stronger on top of the hitboxes inherent in such a move. I will say that trying to time for *exactly* one second within [presumably] 16 millisecond increments is very challenging (1 frame links were much derided) and I know it’s meant to be similar to a few other moves in Smash, but boy…for a non-special move, that’s some tight tolerances. Still confused as to how feasible it is to try and hit A and B (for the neutral B) at the same 1 second, but as you said: unlikely. Anyway. Up and Down smashes are fine, and I was worried about but ultimately appreciate the touch of low profile on the up charge. The Down is something that I’d also be worried about with the potential speed boost and how it plays into a wide air range, but doesn’t seem too egregious.
Aerials: Ok, so it is indeed possible to flick to a battle card. Still too much, I’d think, and now it involves a hold, but at least the option is there. Im not sure why anyone would ever buy Tippi, much less twice, outside of fun, and woe betide the person who accidentally wastes their ink on her. Still, it has personality I suppose. Fair seems fine, the projectile deflection on the nair – with long duration, quick start, and low landing, seems less so. For a nair? To say nothing of the copy? That’s a lot (even though, yes, copy requires resources spent like any of the others). Even interpreting deflection as different from reflection (does anything happen to the projectiles?) that’s…huh. Very effective, and on a pretty all-encompassing move. Bair and uairs seem fine, and as ever, I like the color.
And that about wraps it up for Paper Mario. End of the day, some fun ideas, and great explanations, but wow does it need to be simplified for a Smash set. At least, in my eyes.
-How well does it fit in Smash: Does it seem like it’s a bunch of Smash moves, or is this an ASW game. To this end, there is a sort of “maximum complication” calculus I do; any given move in Smash 4 (or Ultimate) can be very complicated, but very rarely do we see every move be very complicated. Some characters might have Smash specials or ranged smash moves, but it’s less common that, say, every special can be smashed. With system elegance being a prime consideration for the series, this is key.
-How well does the character get represented: Are they doing something entirely crazy? Is it all out of, well, character? Is it focusing only on one aspect of the character and not really the entirety of what they represent (not what they can do, as characters typically can do quite a bit more moves than a Smash set allows).
-Is it mechanically interesting: We might have a character who only shoots bullets, and that’s certainly not a particularly wonky move, but if there’s nothing but linear projectiles, that’s…uh…less positive. Add detail! Moves can get canceled out, moves can have special properties, and moves can work in unexpected ways. Also I mean here is that simply adding a bunch of status effects to something which is otherwise quite basic, well, that can seem like a crutch to me. If it’s 3 types of lasers, one with fire, one with dark, and one with freeze, well, why not mix it up? The balancing act here with point 1 is tricky but pretty important.
And then I go from there. Those 3 areas aren’t to call out anyone, just wanted to give an intro before I get into the swing of things with Paper Mario by
Munomario777
(does that work?).So right off the bat, I like the stats. All makes sense for PM, all what I remember, all good so far.
It’s the passives it starts to get weird. The use of meters/ammo/secondary resources which are gained beyond cooldowns in Smash requires, in my view, a very deft touch, and the fact that this is used a currency to essentially open up an in-game store using a very rare Shield B to then unlock *eight different buffs and other special moves* is way, *way* past what I’d consider to be natural in Smash. While there may be the occasional Smash character who has some degree of things like this – Robin with ammo, Inklings with shield B (and ammo), Pac-Man/G&W with one-move-contains-multitudes, and Cloud with “meter which transforms various other moves”, no one combines all of those, and none of them are to this extent. Pac-Man still throws a projectile; Cloud’s moves are basically amped versions of what they normally are. Maybe there's more from a character I'm not as familiar with, but those come to mind.
These are entirely new, or at minimum a significant change up (often individually more complicated than many other Smash moves), and there’s 8 of them. Never mind how wonky this would be to play – if it’s a circular menu, that could still mean Shield+B+3 control stick movements+A (presumably while stationary) to queue up these attacks. Even being aware that you need to get a resource to fuel this, this would instantly place Paper Mario in the absolute upper echelon of difficult to play and learn, far higher than any other character.
Side B: An arcing projectile by itself is somewhat standard, although here is can be Smash’d as well. The fact that it makes paint into an item is…well, I guess it’s unique, but it seems kinda clunky. I know the tactic is to chase down the paint after it generates and create a sort of “area denial” section of the fight, but…that strikes me as a tad too central to just feed into an ammo meter. I mean it’s fine, it's done in things like Pac-Man and ROB, and I can see why you did it, but it’s almost like a more of a MOBA ability than a fighting game one, to be stacked on top of the Smash *and* timing attributes. It feels like the aspects here are individually interesting as they work within the broader framework of the character, but on a single-move level, kinda diffuse.
Neutral B: A buff, followed by a Side-B link (which is fine, and helps alleviate some of the trouble I have with the Side B, although it still seems a little…much for ammo and not a central mechanism of area defense). The buff by itself seems a little simple, although less so with the timed hits thing, which you’d think would be a balance alongside the three other NB options, but because so much of the time you’ll just have the NB, it makes me want a little more within the move itself, outside of how it fuels the…uh…differences as driven by the paint engine. I’m not going to discuss the card specials for this except to say that they are by a one fine, but all together as special selects, well, still in a bit of a need of paring. Also: the timed hits come from A+B attacks, and then need to be timed hit with B? That sounds…involved.
Up B: This is probably my favorite special move. First, the basic mechanics of the move, as I understand it, is: intangible free travel w/ reflects on either side. This is pretty unique among Smash characters, and the double reflect could have some interesting play. The timed hits aren’t crowded together with charge/Smash/meter/partners, and overall I think it works quite well.
Down B: My second favorite special – a movement buff which is a little more involved than “more movement”. Has weaknesses too! Always like that balancing approach. The fact that it parries is a little weird (I’m not sure how much I agree with the premise of “every special needs a timed version”), but it’s nothing too out there. I’m a fan here.
So that’s my thoughts on the specials. All in all, while there are some which I think well, this is a bit much. You see Mario doing area control, and charge Bs, and AI partners which can be defused, and timed hits for almost every move, and ammo control, and Smash specials, and switching out specials, and a Shield-B secret shop with 4 other moves, and I can’t help but wish that it was tied together more elegantly. This needs to be roughly a third as complicated to make sense for Smash and as it stands now it kinda just blends together in a case of “everything and the kitchen sink and also that sink has a gun with option selects”.
Normals: Im not sure that giving up ammo-making makes a 1 frame, potentially speed boosted and(?)/or copied move all that fair. The range is fair, but alongside the speed boost, very much the sort of thing I could see being a far too easy hit confirm series, and that goes along the limited knockback as well. Hammer is fine, Tube is mostly fine (going low profile as long as the player wants into a low ending lag uppercut? interesting), Spin is fine, Twirl is…also mostly fine (I get the sense that between the copy and the speed all of this is up in the air anyway).
Grab: A ranged grab, zair, and a buff? Besides the fact that Thoreau is from the main series…why? Seemed like a normal grab to begin with. Two forward throws seems a tad redundant, but I was never much one who got all the nuances of grab games so who knows. Memorizing timing for every character in the game for the back through does seem…unusual though. Nothing as much as the specials, but unusual. Everything else is fine and well detailed, and I like the ideas for chase/follows you lay out here.
Smashes: This seems open to exploiting, all this “whiff gets paint” stuff. Not completely outside the realm of possibility within Smash (several other characters do something similar), but just something that comes to mind when considering a character whose missed normal attacks make them stronger on top of the hitboxes inherent in such a move. I will say that trying to time for *exactly* one second within [presumably] 16 millisecond increments is very challenging (1 frame links were much derided) and I know it’s meant to be similar to a few other moves in Smash, but boy…for a non-special move, that’s some tight tolerances. Still confused as to how feasible it is to try and hit A and B (for the neutral B) at the same 1 second, but as you said: unlikely. Anyway. Up and Down smashes are fine, and I was worried about but ultimately appreciate the touch of low profile on the up charge. The Down is something that I’d also be worried about with the potential speed boost and how it plays into a wide air range, but doesn’t seem too egregious.
Aerials: Ok, so it is indeed possible to flick to a battle card. Still too much, I’d think, and now it involves a hold, but at least the option is there. Im not sure why anyone would ever buy Tippi, much less twice, outside of fun, and woe betide the person who accidentally wastes their ink on her. Still, it has personality I suppose. Fair seems fine, the projectile deflection on the nair – with long duration, quick start, and low landing, seems less so. For a nair? To say nothing of the copy? That’s a lot (even though, yes, copy requires resources spent like any of the others). Even interpreting deflection as different from reflection (does anything happen to the projectiles?) that’s…huh. Very effective, and on a pretty all-encompassing move. Bair and uairs seem fine, and as ever, I like the color.
And that about wraps it up for Paper Mario. End of the day, some fun ideas, and great explanations, but wow does it need to be simplified for a Smash set. At least, in my eyes.
Paper Mario
Major props to
Munomario777
here on the formatting; it's absolutely stellar. with hand-drawn images for every single attack. Things also all flow together and make sense-- with the exception of Tippi's placement and the mention of the secondary method of accessing the card shop; both should have been mentioned up front at first, when the concept was introduced. Over all tons of detail was placed into this set, it really shows. Maybe too much love was put in though...
Piggybacking off of @Jakisthe there is simply way, way, way too much going on in this set. Timed hits, the card shop with both changed B moves and additional passive buffs AND the copy mechanic is just... way too much. You even specifically mention that some of these combos together are way too damn good. The ability to deal over 60%, an instant kill, in a single hit, is too much. Also falcon's run speed and a 1 frame jab together, especially in ultimate where you can jab out of dash, is immensely unfair. You underestimate how many frame perfect inputs people can do in a match, especially since they can keep Cudgel and have some copies for protection. Also-- how many frames are you given for a Timed Hit? If it's just one that makes the mechanic pretty much non-existent for casual players.
So like I said, tons of love was put into this set. Too much, it seems. You wanted to put in a piece of every single paper mario game but that leaves the set feeling crowded and unbalanced. Still, the absolute amazing writing and formatting do place it far above most other sets anyways.
Major props to
Munomario777
here on the formatting; it's absolutely stellar. with hand-drawn images for every single attack. Things also all flow together and make sense-- with the exception of Tippi's placement and the mention of the secondary method of accessing the card shop; both should have been mentioned up front at first, when the concept was introduced. Over all tons of detail was placed into this set, it really shows. Maybe too much love was put in though...Piggybacking off of @Jakisthe there is simply way, way, way too much going on in this set. Timed hits, the card shop with both changed B moves and additional passive buffs AND the copy mechanic is just... way too much. You even specifically mention that some of these combos together are way too damn good. The ability to deal over 60%, an instant kill, in a single hit, is too much. Also falcon's run speed and a 1 frame jab together, especially in ultimate where you can jab out of dash, is immensely unfair. You underestimate how many frame perfect inputs people can do in a match, especially since they can keep Cudgel and have some copies for protection. Also-- how many frames are you given for a Timed Hit? If it's just one that makes the mechanic pretty much non-existent for casual players.
So like I said, tons of love was put into this set. Too much, it seems. You wanted to put in a piece of every single paper mario game but that leaves the set feeling crowded and unbalanced. Still, the absolute amazing writing and formatting do place it far above most other sets anyways.
Paper Mario has caused something of a stir, by modern standards this is one of the most influential sets, getting all sorts of attention. It's very deserved if you look at the set's great use of tablet/tracing to illustrate many of its moves, and I love that you went the extra mile for the melee hammer moves too. In some moves the tracing is obvious, but it doesn't detract from the high production values on display here, the format and image work is sublime. Beyond the images you drew the little details like the Adeleine Kirby hat, the cool effects you did for up special and the UI work you did to illustrate the shop, as well as the smart decision to split up the partners in this specific way are all genius decisions. I don't know if I'd have quite gotten the impact of Dashell or Thoreau if they weren't introduced at that part of the set, and it goes a long way in selling the appeal of Paper Mario's set as a fun, incredibly versatile character.
The set largely comes down to a collection of mechanics, the paint being the central one. I'm not sure if I entirely find the paint necessary, Paper Mario could well just get a partner like Shulk chooses a Monado Art. In the least I think the amount of paint you have to have to buy a partner is too high at 50% of landed hits of 100% of whiffed hits, you might be able to stand in place and whiff (not unlike other fighting games' meter systems) but it's a steep price for what aren't hugely powerful additions to Paper Mario's set. I wouldn't say the set is imbalanced outside of that, it's pretty much the opposite as the set successfully juggles a bunch of difficult mechanics between the timed hits, partners, buffs and paint. It's handled with a deft hand all the way through, for example the way you balanced the hammer-only moves when Cudge is active is nothing short of inspired.
The set continues to impress when you delve into the playstyle. The playstyle section here is one of the first I've particularly liked in a long time as it spells out just how much depth there is to Paper Mario and the choices any particular player might make, at the same time pinpointing his exact playstyle as a paper weight. I also never don't enjoy a set that has a OHKO that's balanced like the fsmash + Cudge combination. There are a lot of neat little combinations that are possible and the extent to which the player can drastically change their playstyle is just awesome. The way Timed Hits are worked into the set and the partners among other things are what help cement this set as one of the only Paper Mario movesets I've read that gives the character the right feel for his series. I really like too what you did in bringing together all the Paper Mario games, not leaving out the newer games, but paying respect to the entire series. There's obviously a lot of thought and effort that went into this set and it shows.
There were a couple of things I wasn't sure about on an individual level. I think the nair is too OP against projectiles characters with its "deflection," rest in peace MegaMan. I wasn't sure about the bthrow only hitting forward, I'd have much preferred him just turning around to do the move first or making the fthrow go backwards as a bthrow, swapping those two throws' inputs. It's kind of fun that you hold back like you're charging up the hammer behind Mario, but still, a functional bthrow would be better. I was wavering on what I thought of partners used in throws here, but they are put to good use. I'm not going to complain about Tippi or Tiptron as those are obvious Easter Eggs, I'm frankly glad they're in the set. No harm done there.
This set has a lot of really amazing qualities and a few bad spots. I'm not a fan of the way the paint mechanic works, it's definitely on the underpowered side. Besides the bthrow, I also felt like the utilt and dtilt were slightly odd for the inputs. I can't pretend that these mistakes drag down the stellar elements that terribly much however, this set's creativity, inventiveness and ambitions to simply be different are very inspiring, especially when you go into some detail later on the playstyle and the set's development process. I almost forgot to say as well, it's an elegant first foray into the world of Ultimate sets. This set is a project you should feel proud of and one of your best sets period! Awesome work Muno. (I'll get to Rex & Pyra one of these days.)
The set largely comes down to a collection of mechanics, the paint being the central one. I'm not sure if I entirely find the paint necessary, Paper Mario could well just get a partner like Shulk chooses a Monado Art. In the least I think the amount of paint you have to have to buy a partner is too high at 50% of landed hits of 100% of whiffed hits, you might be able to stand in place and whiff (not unlike other fighting games' meter systems) but it's a steep price for what aren't hugely powerful additions to Paper Mario's set. I wouldn't say the set is imbalanced outside of that, it's pretty much the opposite as the set successfully juggles a bunch of difficult mechanics between the timed hits, partners, buffs and paint. It's handled with a deft hand all the way through, for example the way you balanced the hammer-only moves when Cudge is active is nothing short of inspired.
The set continues to impress when you delve into the playstyle. The playstyle section here is one of the first I've particularly liked in a long time as it spells out just how much depth there is to Paper Mario and the choices any particular player might make, at the same time pinpointing his exact playstyle as a paper weight. I also never don't enjoy a set that has a OHKO that's balanced like the fsmash + Cudge combination. There are a lot of neat little combinations that are possible and the extent to which the player can drastically change their playstyle is just awesome. The way Timed Hits are worked into the set and the partners among other things are what help cement this set as one of the only Paper Mario movesets I've read that gives the character the right feel for his series. I really like too what you did in bringing together all the Paper Mario games, not leaving out the newer games, but paying respect to the entire series. There's obviously a lot of thought and effort that went into this set and it shows.
There were a couple of things I wasn't sure about on an individual level. I think the nair is too OP against projectiles characters with its "deflection," rest in peace MegaMan. I wasn't sure about the bthrow only hitting forward, I'd have much preferred him just turning around to do the move first or making the fthrow go backwards as a bthrow, swapping those two throws' inputs. It's kind of fun that you hold back like you're charging up the hammer behind Mario, but still, a functional bthrow would be better. I was wavering on what I thought of partners used in throws here, but they are put to good use. I'm not going to complain about Tippi or Tiptron as those are obvious Easter Eggs, I'm frankly glad they're in the set. No harm done there.
This set has a lot of really amazing qualities and a few bad spots. I'm not a fan of the way the paint mechanic works, it's definitely on the underpowered side. Besides the bthrow, I also felt like the utilt and dtilt were slightly odd for the inputs. I can't pretend that these mistakes drag down the stellar elements that terribly much however, this set's creativity, inventiveness and ambitions to simply be different are very inspiring, especially when you go into some detail later on the playstyle and the set's development process. I almost forgot to say as well, it's an elegant first foray into the world of Ultimate sets. This set is a project you should feel proud of and one of your best sets period! Awesome work Muno. (I'll get to Rex & Pyra one of these days.)
Paper Mario
I actually do like the core mechanic of the set quite a bit. This is a much more respectable way to use the partners than the old version, given you have to actually earn the chance to use them so they feel like more than "just a special" really. Said partners are also decently interesting as attacks go, compared to the extremely underwhelming ones in your old Paper Mario. The set also gives a decent few other options to earn, like buffing your grab, your hammer's damage, or dash speed, even leading into a potential one hit kill with the hammer that requires some very situational setup. I find myself disagreeing with a lot of the criticism that's been thrown the set's way, I don't think its overcomplicated in and of itself with how nicely everything is presented to the player visually and the relative simplicity of using Paper Mario's 8 paint cards. Nor do I think its stupid to have a corner case one hit KO that deals 65%, if the player has to earn it if anything I think that's really cool when done right.
That's about where my praise for the set ends unfortunately, as I'm on the whole not terribly fond of the set's execution. This is partially in the melee and partially in the actual way the cards are implemented. The former I don't have a ton to say about, but while it does an okay job of being "evasive" to make Paper Mario capable of weaving around attacks to mitigate his awful weight and make better use of his versatile kit, a lot of it really just comes across as more gimmicky than it does interesting. The grab game felt particularly awkward to me for that, with new partners getting jammed onto singular throws after being treated with something resembling respect earlier, and the hammer charging throw feeling more like a wonky gimmick than like its mechanic actually brings anything to the table.
The real problem for me is the fact that while I think the basis of the cards is fine, a lot of them are fundamentally flawed. One of them exists entirely for flavor, which is fine, I can appreciate that as a for fun thing like Snake's codec(although its impact is diminished without examples, honestly). Three of them are partners, who have the fundamental problem of replacing Huey as an option. I could actually see wanting to switch from Huey to a partner for certain situations despite how much paint Huey gathers and the sizeable boost he gives to your hammer attacks. Those situations get a lot less common when you consider that you lose Huey for the entire stock if you switch to any of the partners, which greatly stifles your paint gain and also takes away your access to a powerful damage buff. Cudge I think is the actual worst one in the set though, because it actually increases Paper Mario's lag on his hammer attacks in exchange for a power boost. Is the power boost nice? Yeah, but in Smash speed is almost universally more valuable than power and slower power characters need to compensate. Turning yourself into a slower power character with your hammer attacks strikes me as, if anything, just kind of a downgrade. This leaves Paper Mario with the copies, a grab extender, and a dash range boost, which makes his selection look a lot less impressive and it really is clunky to have all these options that actually take away from him irreversibly barring a suicide.
So unfortunately, yeah I can't say I like Paper Mario, though I think you're on the right track with trying to tackle slightly more complex subject matter. Making the Huey loss and Cudge's speed decrease in some fashion reversible would actually be all you'd really need to do to make this set voteable for me, even if I don't think the melee is among your stronger ones. Its an admirable effort and the best Paper Mario set we've gotten, it just needs some tuning in places.
I actually do like the core mechanic of the set quite a bit. This is a much more respectable way to use the partners than the old version, given you have to actually earn the chance to use them so they feel like more than "just a special" really. Said partners are also decently interesting as attacks go, compared to the extremely underwhelming ones in your old Paper Mario. The set also gives a decent few other options to earn, like buffing your grab, your hammer's damage, or dash speed, even leading into a potential one hit kill with the hammer that requires some very situational setup. I find myself disagreeing with a lot of the criticism that's been thrown the set's way, I don't think its overcomplicated in and of itself with how nicely everything is presented to the player visually and the relative simplicity of using Paper Mario's 8 paint cards. Nor do I think its stupid to have a corner case one hit KO that deals 65%, if the player has to earn it if anything I think that's really cool when done right.
That's about where my praise for the set ends unfortunately, as I'm on the whole not terribly fond of the set's execution. This is partially in the melee and partially in the actual way the cards are implemented. The former I don't have a ton to say about, but while it does an okay job of being "evasive" to make Paper Mario capable of weaving around attacks to mitigate his awful weight and make better use of his versatile kit, a lot of it really just comes across as more gimmicky than it does interesting. The grab game felt particularly awkward to me for that, with new partners getting jammed onto singular throws after being treated with something resembling respect earlier, and the hammer charging throw feeling more like a wonky gimmick than like its mechanic actually brings anything to the table.
The real problem for me is the fact that while I think the basis of the cards is fine, a lot of them are fundamentally flawed. One of them exists entirely for flavor, which is fine, I can appreciate that as a for fun thing like Snake's codec(although its impact is diminished without examples, honestly). Three of them are partners, who have the fundamental problem of replacing Huey as an option. I could actually see wanting to switch from Huey to a partner for certain situations despite how much paint Huey gathers and the sizeable boost he gives to your hammer attacks. Those situations get a lot less common when you consider that you lose Huey for the entire stock if you switch to any of the partners, which greatly stifles your paint gain and also takes away your access to a powerful damage buff. Cudge I think is the actual worst one in the set though, because it actually increases Paper Mario's lag on his hammer attacks in exchange for a power boost. Is the power boost nice? Yeah, but in Smash speed is almost universally more valuable than power and slower power characters need to compensate. Turning yourself into a slower power character with your hammer attacks strikes me as, if anything, just kind of a downgrade. This leaves Paper Mario with the copies, a grab extender, and a dash range boost, which makes his selection look a lot less impressive and it really is clunky to have all these options that actually take away from him irreversibly barring a suicide.
So unfortunately, yeah I can't say I like Paper Mario, though I think you're on the right track with trying to tackle slightly more complex subject matter. Making the Huey loss and Cudge's speed decrease in some fashion reversible would actually be all you'd really need to do to make this set voteable for me, even if I don't think the melee is among your stronger ones. Its an admirable effort and the best Paper Mario set we've gotten, it just needs some tuning in places.
Uno Mario by MunoMario (Paper Mario by Munomario777)
Did I go through the trouble of reading this set and writing this comment just for that pun? Absolutely. Did I enjoy the set? Absolutely.
Muno's trademark wit is combined with the source material of Paper Mario and what happens is a loveletter to both. Muno's visual style, already present in Breath of the Wild Link, elevates itself to a new height, all to really bring the vibrant world of Paper Mario to life with all kinds of visual aids. These visual aids don't just aid the reader in understanding the animations, because the animations are already more than understandable in their written form, but also bring charm for the sake of doing so, breaking up the set by sprinkling the main gimmick throughout in little intermezzos.
The set itself is clear and strategic and even customizable! The player chooses Paper Mario's playstyle by picking partners, buffs and mechanics with Battle Cards, which brings a new layer to the moveset. (You can even add a literal layer by copying Paper Mario!)
The set finds a nice balance between bringing Paper Mario to life and making it work as a Smash moveset, with partners not overtaking *every move* but being rightfully restricted to these Battle Cards and throws.
The Battle Cards, as set-wide mechanic, are referenced plenty throughout, with Muno tattling about them with each moves that unlocks its potential and the playstyle section even hands you a few recommended decks.
Maybe Kooper is a bit undertuned compared to the others and some go above and beyond to affect the entire playstyle moreso than the others, but even in the balancing department everything went really well overall. There wasn't an option that really stood out as either mediocre or broken.
Did I go through the trouble of reading this set and writing this comment just for that pun? Absolutely. Did I enjoy the set? Absolutely.
Muno's trademark wit is combined with the source material of Paper Mario and what happens is a loveletter to both. Muno's visual style, already present in Breath of the Wild Link, elevates itself to a new height, all to really bring the vibrant world of Paper Mario to life with all kinds of visual aids. These visual aids don't just aid the reader in understanding the animations, because the animations are already more than understandable in their written form, but also bring charm for the sake of doing so, breaking up the set by sprinkling the main gimmick throughout in little intermezzos.
The set itself is clear and strategic and even customizable! The player chooses Paper Mario's playstyle by picking partners, buffs and mechanics with Battle Cards, which brings a new layer to the moveset. (You can even add a literal layer by copying Paper Mario!)
The set finds a nice balance between bringing Paper Mario to life and making it work as a Smash moveset, with partners not overtaking *every move* but being rightfully restricted to these Battle Cards and throws.
The Battle Cards, as set-wide mechanic, are referenced plenty throughout, with Muno tattling about them with each moves that unlocks its potential and the playstyle section even hands you a few recommended decks.
Maybe Kooper is a bit undertuned compared to the others and some go above and beyond to affect the entire playstyle moreso than the others, but even in the balancing department everything went really well overall. There wasn't an option that really stood out as either mediocre or broken.
@Squirtle/Mario guy Hello and welcome, I didn't expect another Paper Mario set but this one differs greatly from Muno's so why not. I will say first of all that it might sound like a weird criticism, but the order of your set struck me as a little strange. You have the jab first, when you'd expect it to be with the tilts and dash attack, and you have the grab and pummel together, though separated from the throws. I don't mind a set that has a different order if there's a good reason, but I get the sense you didn't really think about it, and as it's your first moveset it's understandable.
The other problem is that your set is very under-detailed. The bare minimum for a set is to give the hitbox, damage percents and an idea of the knockback a move deals. So for example your neutral attack reads, "Hammer Slams three times," it should at least be: "Paper Mario slams his hammer three times, dealing 3 hits of 3% and strong knockback at the end." There's still a lot of missing details there, such as the hits stringing together in a combo, but the set honestly just doesn't deliver the core basics to make it easy to visualize.
Getting into a more intricate problem now, the fact Paper Mario summons his allies on various more obscure inputs like throws is a bit of an issue. It just feels insulting for a character like Vivian to show up on a down throw. There comes a point in a set where you have to decide to focus on a few specific things, and that does mean you can't throw in every Paper Mario character unfortunately. It's a fine first attempt at a set, my very first set probably looked as basic as this. Even outside of MYM's standards this is a very simplistic moveset. Again I can't stress enough this is understandable when it's your first set. I hope you stick around and try to do a bigger offering next time.
The other problem is that your set is very under-detailed. The bare minimum for a set is to give the hitbox, damage percents and an idea of the knockback a move deals. So for example your neutral attack reads, "Hammer Slams three times," it should at least be: "Paper Mario slams his hammer three times, dealing 3 hits of 3% and strong knockback at the end." There's still a lot of missing details there, such as the hits stringing together in a combo, but the set honestly just doesn't deliver the core basics to make it easy to visualize.
Getting into a more intricate problem now, the fact Paper Mario summons his allies on various more obscure inputs like throws is a bit of an issue. It just feels insulting for a character like Vivian to show up on a down throw. There comes a point in a set where you have to decide to focus on a few specific things, and that does mean you can't throw in every Paper Mario character unfortunately. It's a fine first attempt at a set, my very first set probably looked as basic as this. Even outside of MYM's standards this is a very simplistic moveset. Again I can't stress enough this is understandable when it's your first set. I hope you stick around and try to do a bigger offering next time.
@xzx Hi and welcome, this Paper Mario is fairly impressive coming from outside of the MYM community. As I said to S/MG above, you are lacking basic details like damage percents and knockback, but you've clearly got a decent grips of the basics at the same time. I can see what you're going for with a lot of the moves. It's simply hard to visualize these attacks without either an image or some deeper explanation beyond a reference as someone who never played these games. Largely you can look to the above comment for similar criticism in this set, though much less pronounced.
What stuck out to me as particularly good here was the nair, if every move had this sense of detail, scale and creativity, this could be quite a nice moveset! It might be better served on a dair (after all, he's falling on a foe) but it's not the worst nair concept I've seen either, if anything it might be better promoted to a special. Another thing that impressed me after the other Paper Mario offering is you did manage to avoid using the partners as much in other areas such as the throws. It's again very under-detailed and yet has some decently creative ideas pulling from all the Paper Mario games and shows a great amount of insight into the series as a whole. It's very cool seeing you pull moves from the entire franchise in this way.
The specials are another part like the nair that I could see be improved to have a bit more detail and finesse to them to the point they could easily be in a pretty good set. You do at least want to give a general size and sense of the lag on moves such as the partner summon. For example, is Goombella a large character? What damage and knockback does her attack deal? What is this attack exactly? But the core idea is a good one and I have to give you some credit for your creativity. All in all, this set isn't half bad outside of MYM's high standards. I also would like if you posted it in the thread alongside the link (I get why you wanted to link it, that's fine). Or maybe do what Muno does and put it in a Google Doc. Either way, I hope you do some more as I think you have promise!
What stuck out to me as particularly good here was the nair, if every move had this sense of detail, scale and creativity, this could be quite a nice moveset! It might be better served on a dair (after all, he's falling on a foe) but it's not the worst nair concept I've seen either, if anything it might be better promoted to a special. Another thing that impressed me after the other Paper Mario offering is you did manage to avoid using the partners as much in other areas such as the throws. It's again very under-detailed and yet has some decently creative ideas pulling from all the Paper Mario games and shows a great amount of insight into the series as a whole. It's very cool seeing you pull moves from the entire franchise in this way.
The specials are another part like the nair that I could see be improved to have a bit more detail and finesse to them to the point they could easily be in a pretty good set. You do at least want to give a general size and sense of the lag on moves such as the partner summon. For example, is Goombella a large character? What damage and knockback does her attack deal? What is this attack exactly? But the core idea is a good one and I have to give you some credit for your creativity. All in all, this set isn't half bad outside of MYM's high standards. I also would like if you posted it in the thread alongside the link (I get why you wanted to link it, that's fine). Or maybe do what Muno does and put it in a Google Doc. Either way, I hope you do some more as I think you have promise!
Kazuya
Kazuya is a set that I really love, @Idon . He seems fun to play certainly, I love his options, but more over I love this set aesthetically. Every attack has been linked back to a previous SMT protagonist, if not Kazuya himself. The set's formatting is also great, reminiscent of an old black and green computer similar to the COMPs some SMT protags wear. I also appreciate the pictures of each demon summoned, as a newbie to the series wouldn't know what each of these demons look like. Also, the music is a real nice touch since SMT has amazing music.
The only place where the formatting fails is in the grab section, it looks a little odd there because of the bold text and then the bold text again. A minor nitpick though. The only actual issue I have with the set is the lack of solid numbers-- No faf or percents are mentioned, making me wonder how quickly can Kazuya act after a demon is summoned, how long does each charge level take, etc. Overall, this is a character I now really want to see in Smash, he seems immensely fun to play as, with interesting tools that aren't too complex while together giving him a good amount of depth.
Kazuya is a set that I really love, @Idon . He seems fun to play certainly, I love his options, but more over I love this set aesthetically. Every attack has been linked back to a previous SMT protagonist, if not Kazuya himself. The set's formatting is also great, reminiscent of an old black and green computer similar to the COMPs some SMT protags wear. I also appreciate the pictures of each demon summoned, as a newbie to the series wouldn't know what each of these demons look like. Also, the music is a real nice touch since SMT has amazing music.
The only place where the formatting fails is in the grab section, it looks a little odd there because of the bold text and then the bold text again. A minor nitpick though. The only actual issue I have with the set is the lack of solid numbers-- No faf or percents are mentioned, making me wonder how quickly can Kazuya act after a demon is summoned, how long does each charge level take, etc. Overall, this is a character I now really want to see in Smash, he seems immensely fun to play as, with interesting tools that aren't too complex while together giving him a good amount of depth.
Thanks @Idon for finally posting Kazuya, been waiting a long time. And it was well worth the wait because this moveset does an outstanding job of representing the entire line of protagonists in most of the Shin Megami Tensei games. I've only played a few of the mainline games (the ones that aren't Persona) and it's honestly astounding how well you're able to construct a whole set out of generic animations from such eclectic source material here. It starts out giving a great set of animations for everything, even giving a unique shield, dodge and roll animations that are all cool references. Where this impressed me later is in the melee of the set, even the aerials manage to get in tons of references to the entire SMT franchise. I doubt it's possible to do a better job of representing the SMT protagonists in a set without it getting bogged down by the character's own limitations, so this is really a perfect idea for how it could be done in Smash Bros.
I do think the set falters on the details. Kafka pointed out already the set is lacking any damage percents, and it also doesn't give any reference for knockback. This could be as simple as comparing moves like the up smash to similar attacks in Smash 4 like Duck Hunt's up smash or Mii Gunner's up aerial. That and effects like Bufu's freeze effect not being detailed were negatives. The biggest missing detail is that the set never gives the character's stats, for example his height, weight, air and ground speed or jumps, despite the excellent levels of detailing on his other animations. Beyond that, I also felt a little cheated not seeing the specials beyond the first version given some more attention. These could've been a highlight of the set as it would work very well into your playstyle as written in the conclusion of the set, as Kazuya would be able to pick and choose what versions to use and bait foes in who expect him to finish the charge. These powerful spells would then help deepen his playstyle further and could have fun effects.
The set also could've been improved a ton if it referenced the very important specials section later, for example listing moves that worked into his Bufu effect. The most obvious special to talk about in my opinion was the interesting up special dynamic where he wants to attack on the way up, so he's not punished on the way down could've worked great if utilized in his aerials, or at least talked about in the conclusion/playstyle section. As you may have noticed however I find it hard to criticize the moves themselves, partially because I can't criticize the numbers when they're not detailed, but also because the set does such a good job of utilizing Kazuya and the other SMT protagonists' potential. It's a real joy to read through even as a someone who isn't a diehard SMT fan. Last but not least, I agree that the formatting here is great. It's a surprisingly fitting motif for the character that I wouldn't have expected. All around, a good set and one I thoroughly enjoyed.
I do think the set falters on the details. Kafka pointed out already the set is lacking any damage percents, and it also doesn't give any reference for knockback. This could be as simple as comparing moves like the up smash to similar attacks in Smash 4 like Duck Hunt's up smash or Mii Gunner's up aerial. That and effects like Bufu's freeze effect not being detailed were negatives. The biggest missing detail is that the set never gives the character's stats, for example his height, weight, air and ground speed or jumps, despite the excellent levels of detailing on his other animations. Beyond that, I also felt a little cheated not seeing the specials beyond the first version given some more attention. These could've been a highlight of the set as it would work very well into your playstyle as written in the conclusion of the set, as Kazuya would be able to pick and choose what versions to use and bait foes in who expect him to finish the charge. These powerful spells would then help deepen his playstyle further and could have fun effects.
The set also could've been improved a ton if it referenced the very important specials section later, for example listing moves that worked into his Bufu effect. The most obvious special to talk about in my opinion was the interesting up special dynamic where he wants to attack on the way up, so he's not punished on the way down could've worked great if utilized in his aerials, or at least talked about in the conclusion/playstyle section. As you may have noticed however I find it hard to criticize the moves themselves, partially because I can't criticize the numbers when they're not detailed, but also because the set does such a good job of utilizing Kazuya and the other SMT protagonists' potential. It's a real joy to read through even as a someone who isn't a diehard SMT fan. Last but not least, I agree that the formatting here is great. It's a surprisingly fitting motif for the character that I wouldn't have expected. All around, a good set and one I thoroughly enjoyed.
@Ridrool64 No rule against it, and welcome to MYM.
Hi again @Ridrool64 figured I’d write you a comment on Arle while I’m wishing you a warm welcome to this community. This set is honestly quite impressive from a presentation standpoint as many long-time MYMers don’t bother getting the requisite images, let alone get these GIFs and time stamped videos. This makes it easy to visualize all the moves where this is used, and where you don’t have a direct image I like your descriptive writing style. The start of the set also has painstaking detail in terms of explaining Arle’s stats, which is very nice too. So all in all, I have no complaints about your presentation, and while this isn’t the most important quality for me in a set it’s still worth some praise. The set does a great job of setting up Arle, Carbuncle and all the mechanics of Puyo-Puyo in a graceful and explanatory way that any player would immediately understand. For your first set I’ve read, this is fairly advanced input placement, getting the most out of smashes, aerials and throws while avoiding some obvious movesetting pitfalls along the way.
I do like the premise you have with the chains and All Clear… but it’s not very well detailed. I don’t know exactly what constitutes a “hit” and let me be clear on that, because that might seem obvious. The jab you would think would be very powerful as landing the full combo is technically 3 hits, the fsmash might be two hits due to Carbuncle getting on board to do his own Thunder. The set does at least avoid multi-hit moves (and smartly avoids having the pummel factor at all into combos) but it’s still very vague, and the chain bonus itself is very powerful. A 4x bonus from a 13 chain combo put into context, Shulk’s Buster Monado Art only deals 1.4x damage, so a 4x bonus? And that can stack with the 1.5x All Clear? That is way too powerful and it’s a problem when the set doesn’t really explain the mechanic all that well.
I do like the set in general though I wish it went further in a lot of areas. For example the down smash doesn’t list how long the opponent is stunned, the puyos in the aerials aren’t given a stated size for their hitbox and the set doesn’t state whether a move has slow or fast start up. I do like that you went to the trouble of listing the puyos’ elemental damage, it’s a small detail but I always enjoyed that quirk where it shows up. In general I felt like the set had plenty of personality but fell short on giving much depth to Arle’s playstyle. That’s largely because the set doesn’t give enough explanation to understand the core mechanics or how they play into the moves. Nonetheless you deserve a lot of praise for your presentation and you clearly have a good grip on the fundamentals of making sets, the one exception being I wasn’t sure if I liked the down smash doing stun rather than knockback (though I do like the smashes being mini-specials).
Hi again @Ridrool64 figured I’d write you a comment on Arle while I’m wishing you a warm welcome to this community. This set is honestly quite impressive from a presentation standpoint as many long-time MYMers don’t bother getting the requisite images, let alone get these GIFs and time stamped videos. This makes it easy to visualize all the moves where this is used, and where you don’t have a direct image I like your descriptive writing style. The start of the set also has painstaking detail in terms of explaining Arle’s stats, which is very nice too. So all in all, I have no complaints about your presentation, and while this isn’t the most important quality for me in a set it’s still worth some praise. The set does a great job of setting up Arle, Carbuncle and all the mechanics of Puyo-Puyo in a graceful and explanatory way that any player would immediately understand. For your first set I’ve read, this is fairly advanced input placement, getting the most out of smashes, aerials and throws while avoiding some obvious movesetting pitfalls along the way.
I do like the premise you have with the chains and All Clear… but it’s not very well detailed. I don’t know exactly what constitutes a “hit” and let me be clear on that, because that might seem obvious. The jab you would think would be very powerful as landing the full combo is technically 3 hits, the fsmash might be two hits due to Carbuncle getting on board to do his own Thunder. The set does at least avoid multi-hit moves (and smartly avoids having the pummel factor at all into combos) but it’s still very vague, and the chain bonus itself is very powerful. A 4x bonus from a 13 chain combo put into context, Shulk’s Buster Monado Art only deals 1.4x damage, so a 4x bonus? And that can stack with the 1.5x All Clear? That is way too powerful and it’s a problem when the set doesn’t really explain the mechanic all that well.
I do like the set in general though I wish it went further in a lot of areas. For example the down smash doesn’t list how long the opponent is stunned, the puyos in the aerials aren’t given a stated size for their hitbox and the set doesn’t state whether a move has slow or fast start up. I do like that you went to the trouble of listing the puyos’ elemental damage, it’s a small detail but I always enjoyed that quirk where it shows up. In general I felt like the set had plenty of personality but fell short on giving much depth to Arle’s playstyle. That’s largely because the set doesn’t give enough explanation to understand the core mechanics or how they play into the moves. Nonetheless you deserve a lot of praise for your presentation and you clearly have a good grip on the fundamentals of making sets, the one exception being I wasn’t sure if I liked the down smash doing stun rather than knockback (though I do like the smashes being mini-specials).
Arle
Well this is an interesting first effort if nothing else, and I do think it could be made into something better if you're willing to edit it. The visuals are nicely portrayed with the gifs and I do think Carbuncle being used as a component of some of Arle's attacks with different properties like shield breaking isn't a bad idea. The chain concept, for what its worth, could also be a lot better, but the numbers on it right now are ridiculous. Even with her low base damage numbers, the damage multiplier that can be applied by a chain is crazy, with some of her inputs casually dealing 40%+ with it. Neutral and Side Special are particularly egregious however, as even at a 1x damage multiplier if all their hits chain into each other, which as written I would guess they do due to the incredibly low knockback, you can hit the opponent for 50% with the Neutral Special and 48% with the Side Special. With a multiplier going that will just send the opponents percentage into the stratosphere in one hit and its probably too powerful even at a base, you should either make it so the move is sure not to chain more than one or two hits or nerf the damage of the individual hits. As another balance complaint, I think Shield Special might want to be axed entirely, the balance is a massive seesaw of either being really good against projectile dependent characters or just a terrible move all around for the huge cost it takes to use. A permanent projectile reflector on her body at the cost of the loss of your shield is just too extreme of a tradeoff to have be something triggered so casually.
The set's other problem really comes down to lack of detail in places, the most egregious example being Diacute. You say it powers up the spells, and admittedly I can at least tell which moves are the spells in question, but it would really be nice to know what powering them up even means. Does it boost their range, their damage, their knockback, some combination of the three? It could even provide additional properties, or not apply to Carbuncle, or apply to a greater degree for Carbuncle. The lack of information means its impossible to tell what this move actually does, and its pretty critical for evaluating the set for us to know that much. I'm also finding it a bit vague how exactly the All Clear bonus works, does it just activate when every opponent has been knocked off the platform into the air off the side of the stage? Or do you need a KO outright to get it.
In summary, the presentation is nice and you do a good job of describing the actual animations, but the set badly needs balance and some increased detail in places before it will be remotely competitive. I realize that's a bit harsh, but it at the very least seems like the actual fixing process would not be very difficult, so don't lose hope for this set yet.
Well this is an interesting first effort if nothing else, and I do think it could be made into something better if you're willing to edit it. The visuals are nicely portrayed with the gifs and I do think Carbuncle being used as a component of some of Arle's attacks with different properties like shield breaking isn't a bad idea. The chain concept, for what its worth, could also be a lot better, but the numbers on it right now are ridiculous. Even with her low base damage numbers, the damage multiplier that can be applied by a chain is crazy, with some of her inputs casually dealing 40%+ with it. Neutral and Side Special are particularly egregious however, as even at a 1x damage multiplier if all their hits chain into each other, which as written I would guess they do due to the incredibly low knockback, you can hit the opponent for 50% with the Neutral Special and 48% with the Side Special. With a multiplier going that will just send the opponents percentage into the stratosphere in one hit and its probably too powerful even at a base, you should either make it so the move is sure not to chain more than one or two hits or nerf the damage of the individual hits. As another balance complaint, I think Shield Special might want to be axed entirely, the balance is a massive seesaw of either being really good against projectile dependent characters or just a terrible move all around for the huge cost it takes to use. A permanent projectile reflector on her body at the cost of the loss of your shield is just too extreme of a tradeoff to have be something triggered so casually.
The set's other problem really comes down to lack of detail in places, the most egregious example being Diacute. You say it powers up the spells, and admittedly I can at least tell which moves are the spells in question, but it would really be nice to know what powering them up even means. Does it boost their range, their damage, their knockback, some combination of the three? It could even provide additional properties, or not apply to Carbuncle, or apply to a greater degree for Carbuncle. The lack of information means its impossible to tell what this move actually does, and its pretty critical for evaluating the set for us to know that much. I'm also finding it a bit vague how exactly the All Clear bonus works, does it just activate when every opponent has been knocked off the platform into the air off the side of the stage? Or do you need a KO outright to get it.
In summary, the presentation is nice and you do a good job of describing the actual animations, but the set badly needs balance and some increased detail in places before it will be remotely competitive. I realize that's a bit harsh, but it at the very least seems like the actual fixing process would not be very difficult, so don't lose hope for this set yet.
Blupi Is A Much Better Name Than Eggbert
7/10
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Welcome to MYM proper,
bubbyboytoo
! And might I say, you've debuted with a very solid little set in Blupi. His kit is fairly straightforward, but it all plays together in a nice, easy-to-grasp way. His Glue Bomb is an interesting move, with it being both a fairly unique "air only" projectile and a simple but deadly trap. I see you gave it the nerf of destructibility, which is nice. I WOULD say it could use slightly more health, but given how dangerous it is, I think 1 HP is fine. The Skateboard being Wario's Bike crossed with a ground-crawling projectile is a very fun concept; I like the idea of hybridizing two different "genres" of attack like this, and it gives Blupi some interesting mobility options. I also respect the lack of interaction between the board and the glue trap, because I can't really see any use for such an interaction in this set. The Balloon is another fun hybrid move, being a sort of amalgam of recovery, projectile, and counter; I rather like it! Something that could be fun, though you don't necessarily have to add it in NOW, would be, say, letting Blupi tie a balloon to a skateboard to create a sort of unorthodox trap he can move around. The time bomb was originally a bit TOO powerful, but you gave it a much-needed toning down without making it useless. Good job! The bomb is a very nice centerpiece to Blupi's glue trap and balloon stage control, and I'm very happy to see you took my suggestion of letting him push it with Dash Attack. Another suggestion that could be fun would be allowing him to set bombs ON his skateboard, again making a highly mobile trap. Neither of these board interactions are necessarily something you MUST add in, but they could be fun. The remainder of Blupi's set is solid and straightforward, with Dash Attack's pushing mechanic being very fun in my opinion. Something to keep in mind in the future is that, in MYM, you shouldn't be afraid to include some big, ambitious ideas in the post-special moves. Blupi is fine as he is, but I'd love to see you stretch your wings! All in all, this is an extremely solid debut set; I'm very impressed, and I look forward to seeing more from you!Hello
bubbyboytoo
I already gave some basic thoughts on Blupi but only fair I give it a comment too. This set has a very nice foundation in the specials that sets up for a basic zoning playstyle, not unlike Pac-Man. I liked the way you did the specials: the balloon up special, giving it hitboxes to distinguish it from Villager, the skateboard has more utility than the Wario Bike, the simple glue trap and finally the big concept time bomb. That you can change the time bomb's detonation timer and play around it is the obvious highlight of the playstyle. It's a simple idea, but it works. I like how this lends to a playful and experimental playstyle, very fitting for Blupi.
The set largely plays out after specials as a similar playstyle to Pac-Man, having exaggerated, basic attacks that serve a double purpose here to zone the foe into his traps. In this regard my favourite moves were definitely the usmash, dsmash, nair and the dash attack as they work to stall or delay the foe into the various traps at Blupi's disposal. This is very basic stuff, but it does work, just using multihits and literally pushing the foe into these traps on the dash attack. I like too that the set does keep a semblance of characterisation on every move, Blupi's personality comes across as a fusion of Pac-Man and Villager to me given his cartoonish, goofy animations.
My main issue with this set is largely just how simple it is. It is understandable; Blupi's a character who's a lighthearted mascot and would be picked to have fun throwing foes into his traps, skateboarding or flying around. But if I compare this set to Smash Pac-Man, I'd say Pac has a deeper playstyle when he has all the fruit, the fire hydrant and dynamic side special, plus his smashes and grab are very creative. For a first set this is a good start, I just want to see a bit more creativity in your future sets post-specials. Though I can't really say too much critical outside of that.
bubbyboytoo
I already gave some basic thoughts on Blupi but only fair I give it a comment too. This set has a very nice foundation in the specials that sets up for a basic zoning playstyle, not unlike Pac-Man. I liked the way you did the specials: the balloon up special, giving it hitboxes to distinguish it from Villager, the skateboard has more utility than the Wario Bike, the simple glue trap and finally the big concept time bomb. That you can change the time bomb's detonation timer and play around it is the obvious highlight of the playstyle. It's a simple idea, but it works. I like how this lends to a playful and experimental playstyle, very fitting for Blupi.The set largely plays out after specials as a similar playstyle to Pac-Man, having exaggerated, basic attacks that serve a double purpose here to zone the foe into his traps. In this regard my favourite moves were definitely the usmash, dsmash, nair and the dash attack as they work to stall or delay the foe into the various traps at Blupi's disposal. This is very basic stuff, but it does work, just using multihits and literally pushing the foe into these traps on the dash attack. I like too that the set does keep a semblance of characterisation on every move, Blupi's personality comes across as a fusion of Pac-Man and Villager to me given his cartoonish, goofy animations.
My main issue with this set is largely just how simple it is. It is understandable; Blupi's a character who's a lighthearted mascot and would be picked to have fun throwing foes into his traps, skateboarding or flying around. But if I compare this set to Smash Pac-Man, I'd say Pac has a deeper playstyle when he has all the fruit, the fire hydrant and dynamic side special, plus his smashes and grab are very creative. For a first set this is a good start, I just want to see a bit more creativity in your future sets post-specials. Though I can't really say too much critical outside of that.
KafkaKomedy
Very cool to see you make another set after Lucario, first of all it's clear with Boruto you have a strong grasp on tone and consistency. I commented on it in Lucario too, nothing here is out of place on a ninja archetype character and knowing anything about Naruto (I did read a good deal of the manga) it's all a good fit. Most of all I like that you chose to have more inventive ideas on the projectile fsmash, the dtilt and the general idea of down special is pretty inventive too! It's impressive how you've caught on to the concept of a playstyle like what you have here, where Boruto has a weak recovery and has to rely on his clone because of his weak on-shield moves. That's pretty advanced thinking and I like how that works into Boruto's character too, given he's just the son of Naruto, and absolutely a beginner even if he's trying to live up to his father. It makes a lot of sense that his playstyle would be on the weaker side, relying on risky gimmicks to win.There are a few things I was a little less sure on, first and foremost, I don't like the down special both having a stock limit and having a miniature scroll that's just useless on certain opponents, the Dōjutsu. The others are fairly evergreen conceptually but this one really should have some other use in these scenarios. What I dislike about the balance here is that it's used up whether you land or not, and as you know in Smash it's very easy to whiff moves, so you could well burn through these scrolls. If they were used up upon landing, that would be a lot better on top of the Dōjutsu having a use against all foes. The grab I felt was a bit too much as far as exaggerating his weakness in his playstyle. No out of shield grab is just a massive weakness, especially combined with his intentionally poor moveset against shields. I also felt like it wasn't well explained what happens if you're next to the ledge or a solid object. Does the clone appear in midair or not at all in that case? Logically you'd think they'd just appear closer or on top of Boruto in those situations, eliminating the out of shield grab problem.
What was a little disappointing is that the way the clones work, using only Boruto's smashes, aerials and tilts, was not important to those moves. If anything, this comes across very powerful when you do come to those moves for dealing the same knockback. I realize that halving the knockback would just be broken due to combos but this way also means that when the foe is high percent enough to KO, the clone is as dangerous as Boruto if they manage to throw out a lucky smash attack. It would've worked better to just nerf each move as necessary because a move like fsmash which has the upside of a long lingering hitbox into a powerful KO isn't even nerfed much when its damage is halved but not its knockback, especially in a Ice Climbers lite playstyle.
All in all though I am happy about the way this set turned out and I'm impressed especially that you've gotten such a strong grip on playstyle, and really enjoyed how you carved out a personality. That is not an easy task when juggling clones and various ninja magic. I was also pleasantly surprised that you took the risk to make non-special moves projectiles, play with range and other things you'd expect on those moves in small ways, even thinking up clever ways to weaken Boruto's options to balance out his clones. That's also not easy! It's a very solid set and I hope to see more sets from you in the future.
@PeridotGX Hello there, I have seen you around and it's cool to see you post a set at long last! This is pretty much Kirby Remix. What's kind of a relief here is that given the character, you can pretty liberally re-use existing Kirby attacks, even if it's not a complete copy this is a logical approach. It was done by Muno in his Dededemix too. First of all though, and it may seem weird to make a structural criticism first but bear with me, you should have the specials first. Structurally the specials should be the central focus of a set and it's easier for the set maker I feel too when the specials are first to construct the set around them. For the reader as well, it's a big help to immediately visualize a set. That and some colour and other formatting would go a long way in making the set visually appearing, just throwing on some headers for input sections, or even some images if you want to go the whole hog. Very simple stuff that would immediately lift the set.
The set has a very obvious approach to the character that I can understand: make every Kirby move a fun copy ability, and given Kirby's full of potential from all his many games, that's not a bad idea. In concept, this is a fun premise, however I don't feel like you put nearly enough detail for the reader to get the right idea of many of the moves here. For example the down special only spends a short sentence describing each of the potions that Kirby can drink, when a huge amount of fun for the players in this move should be how they can essentially have 4 specials in 1, and the devil is in the detail. The moves in general just don't give a very good idea of what's going on, aside from the moves where he's re-using existing Kirby moves where it's fine to just give a general impression and then state changes, you can assume everyone knows those moves. For example the side tilt, you should give a general idea of the broom's size, how it looks and the size of the hitbox, and when you've done that, also state a speed and lag. Without that key information, it's hard to completely understand the move.
My other criticism here is that the set comes across as kind of random in what moves it picks, although I do actually like some of your choices. I may be biased as I love any poison themed move, Poison Ride was a great visual, and I like moving the side B hammer to side smash, because his old smashes are some of his most boring moves for sure. That's where I completely get the set's approach. But then there are moves like his grab where he grows a horn he randomly grew? He just splits in two for his down smash? I know these are things he is established to be able to do, but something like that is more suited to a special. While I don't mind experimenting it should really serve a purpose too. I also just don't like moves like front/back aerial sharing the same move on two inputs, though you did at least make them not identical.
In any case this set is very creative and shows that you can draw from a lot of material, I didn't even know a lot of these abilities existed for Kirby. That is kind of the problem too though, as it draws from so much material it's hard to keep track of his playstyle. You do at least have a fitting move for each input. It's just kind of overload to be honest, as I'm all for a Kirby based more around powers but he probably should then also be a given a focus beyond Inhale to stop it getting too unfocused. As Smash Kirby does have an existent playstyle, it could easily be deeper and given all of his potential on display here, that wouldn't be too difficult. In the least this set just needs to explain more of these effects in detail for me to judge the playstyle's merits. Anyway, good job on the set as it's great to see you put it out finally, and I hope to read more.
The set has a very obvious approach to the character that I can understand: make every Kirby move a fun copy ability, and given Kirby's full of potential from all his many games, that's not a bad idea. In concept, this is a fun premise, however I don't feel like you put nearly enough detail for the reader to get the right idea of many of the moves here. For example the down special only spends a short sentence describing each of the potions that Kirby can drink, when a huge amount of fun for the players in this move should be how they can essentially have 4 specials in 1, and the devil is in the detail. The moves in general just don't give a very good idea of what's going on, aside from the moves where he's re-using existing Kirby moves where it's fine to just give a general impression and then state changes, you can assume everyone knows those moves. For example the side tilt, you should give a general idea of the broom's size, how it looks and the size of the hitbox, and when you've done that, also state a speed and lag. Without that key information, it's hard to completely understand the move.
My other criticism here is that the set comes across as kind of random in what moves it picks, although I do actually like some of your choices. I may be biased as I love any poison themed move, Poison Ride was a great visual, and I like moving the side B hammer to side smash, because his old smashes are some of his most boring moves for sure. That's where I completely get the set's approach. But then there are moves like his grab where he grows a horn he randomly grew? He just splits in two for his down smash? I know these are things he is established to be able to do, but something like that is more suited to a special. While I don't mind experimenting it should really serve a purpose too. I also just don't like moves like front/back aerial sharing the same move on two inputs, though you did at least make them not identical.
In any case this set is very creative and shows that you can draw from a lot of material, I didn't even know a lot of these abilities existed for Kirby. That is kind of the problem too though, as it draws from so much material it's hard to keep track of his playstyle. You do at least have a fitting move for each input. It's just kind of overload to be honest, as I'm all for a Kirby based more around powers but he probably should then also be a given a focus beyond Inhale to stop it getting too unfocused. As Smash Kirby does have an existent playstyle, it could easily be deeper and given all of his potential on display here, that wouldn't be too difficult. In the least this set just needs to explain more of these effects in detail for me to judge the playstyle's merits. Anyway, good job on the set as it's great to see you put it out finally, and I hope to read more.
Glad to see another set from you
KafkaKomedy
and I get the sense you’re more invested in Katia than Boruto or Zoroark, and I get why. This set was a far greater challenge than either of those two, Naruto and Pokémon lend themselves to sets, and this character naturally would be harder as it combines several problematic concepts for a moveset. Juggling invisibility and two specials that can backfire on Katia was impressively neat here, and not only those parts. I like how you chose to balance the “health” of her fireballs. It’s explained succinctly, but the nature of the fireballs having both health and a “minimum” threshold is a complex and smart way of balancing the specials. Invisibility was of course advised on heavily by several others and turned out very well in the end too. These specials are so well written and have enough meat to them, you could even use a line break here or there.
The standards are where the set gets into the nitty gritty of Katia’s playstyle and honestly, it reminds me a good bit of Boruto, not that that’s wrong. Katia is pretty weak and relies on the gimmick of invisibility and her telekinesis. However it’s all fairly dependant on the one projectile she personally creates, and I don’t get a very strong sense of how her set really plays into even that one projectile. Essentially she can reliably get a constant active hitbox/hurtbox to levitate in front of her, and she has a pretty regular, arguably slow/underpowered set. It’s hard to see how these mechanics overall work into the set after the specials, other than the fact they do give her a necessary edge on foes, especially invisibility. An interesting balance idea but I felt like Boruto’s set complimented its mechanics a little better.
I was a bit confused over what weapon she’s using in fsmash and usmash, I assume the club, but the hitbox isn’t very clearly defined. The club needs to be compared to something, like Ike’s sword or Dedede’s hammer to give an indication of range. I’d like some more of your typical detail about these hitboxes, I thought the set did a better job describing moves like utilt and ftilt comparing them to Ike and Cloud.
There were honestly a few moves that I didn’t like later, namely the fthrow, dair, nair and uair. The fthrow I just disliked because of the randomness of removing a buff… even Rage. The effect may appear to be random, but 99% of foes will not have a buff, especially not on at the time so this almost always will remove Rage and that is a very significant buff to turn off. This would be absurdly powerful on for example, a heavyweight at a high percent. The three aerials just came across as a bit out of left field, I know she’s a prostitute but she acts mostly like an assassin before these moves. An invisible strip pole and doing the splits is a whole new spin on the character, and I think all three moves would look very weird in motion animation-wise. When she’s spinning around an invisible object, I don’t see how she could possibly look like she has any real sense of motion for an attack (Palutena uses her staff for her taunt, which is grounded). It’d work better if you swapped nair and dsmash. The splits dair would just look silly frankly, and painful/unnatural for Katia to perform, even Bayonetta doesn’t do the full splits. The laying down uair is a similar case to the dair, I assume this is a “pose” uair and it’s weird off the back of the rest of the set, even if it is trying to have a creative animation. Minor complaint, but that FS is also very underpowered to the point I could see using it be actively avoided.
Despite my criticism, I do see why you’re proud of this set, but it’s got a lot more flaws in its execution than your earlier two sets. I think what actually was the problem here is trying to fit in all the aspects of a complex character, and the final flurry of moves reflecting the final piece of her personality especially just make the set feel inconsistent. Besides fthrow the balance is well done. When she has only 1 projectile to manipulate and her invisibility largely is irrelevant to her set, I don’t see as much depth in the set’s playstyle as Boruto. On the other hand it’s easily your most ambitious set yet and you clearly took some risks that didn't fully pay off, but I respect your courage to try anyway. The effort taken to annotate with images and give a lot of flavour at the end of the set was very much appreciated. Hope to see even more sets from you in the future!
KafkaKomedy
and I get the sense you’re more invested in Katia than Boruto or Zoroark, and I get why. This set was a far greater challenge than either of those two, Naruto and Pokémon lend themselves to sets, and this character naturally would be harder as it combines several problematic concepts for a moveset. Juggling invisibility and two specials that can backfire on Katia was impressively neat here, and not only those parts. I like how you chose to balance the “health” of her fireballs. It’s explained succinctly, but the nature of the fireballs having both health and a “minimum” threshold is a complex and smart way of balancing the specials. Invisibility was of course advised on heavily by several others and turned out very well in the end too. These specials are so well written and have enough meat to them, you could even use a line break here or there.The standards are where the set gets into the nitty gritty of Katia’s playstyle and honestly, it reminds me a good bit of Boruto, not that that’s wrong. Katia is pretty weak and relies on the gimmick of invisibility and her telekinesis. However it’s all fairly dependant on the one projectile she personally creates, and I don’t get a very strong sense of how her set really plays into even that one projectile. Essentially she can reliably get a constant active hitbox/hurtbox to levitate in front of her, and she has a pretty regular, arguably slow/underpowered set. It’s hard to see how these mechanics overall work into the set after the specials, other than the fact they do give her a necessary edge on foes, especially invisibility. An interesting balance idea but I felt like Boruto’s set complimented its mechanics a little better.
I was a bit confused over what weapon she’s using in fsmash and usmash, I assume the club, but the hitbox isn’t very clearly defined. The club needs to be compared to something, like Ike’s sword or Dedede’s hammer to give an indication of range. I’d like some more of your typical detail about these hitboxes, I thought the set did a better job describing moves like utilt and ftilt comparing them to Ike and Cloud.
There were honestly a few moves that I didn’t like later, namely the fthrow, dair, nair and uair. The fthrow I just disliked because of the randomness of removing a buff… even Rage. The effect may appear to be random, but 99% of foes will not have a buff, especially not on at the time so this almost always will remove Rage and that is a very significant buff to turn off. This would be absurdly powerful on for example, a heavyweight at a high percent. The three aerials just came across as a bit out of left field, I know she’s a prostitute but she acts mostly like an assassin before these moves. An invisible strip pole and doing the splits is a whole new spin on the character, and I think all three moves would look very weird in motion animation-wise. When she’s spinning around an invisible object, I don’t see how she could possibly look like she has any real sense of motion for an attack (Palutena uses her staff for her taunt, which is grounded). It’d work better if you swapped nair and dsmash. The splits dair would just look silly frankly, and painful/unnatural for Katia to perform, even Bayonetta doesn’t do the full splits. The laying down uair is a similar case to the dair, I assume this is a “pose” uair and it’s weird off the back of the rest of the set, even if it is trying to have a creative animation. Minor complaint, but that FS is also very underpowered to the point I could see using it be actively avoided.
Despite my criticism, I do see why you’re proud of this set, but it’s got a lot more flaws in its execution than your earlier two sets. I think what actually was the problem here is trying to fit in all the aspects of a complex character, and the final flurry of moves reflecting the final piece of her personality especially just make the set feel inconsistent. Besides fthrow the balance is well done. When she has only 1 projectile to manipulate and her invisibility largely is irrelevant to her set, I don’t see as much depth in the set’s playstyle as Boruto. On the other hand it’s easily your most ambitious set yet and you clearly took some risks that didn't fully pay off, but I respect your courage to try anyway. The effort taken to annotate with images and give a lot of flavour at the end of the set was very much appreciated. Hope to see even more sets from you in the future!
@Kzinssie What a character choice. Samson is all new for me, I of course know about the weird world of Japanese games but never looked up this series, hoo boy that was a wild ride. This set has a surprising amount of good ideas despite its simple-looking layout. A perfect example of some of the smart decisions you make is the fact the jounetsu/meter fills up at a very specific per frame amount. I also really liked the balance of the uspec and dspec consuming jounetsu and just not regenerating it respectively, the way the meter is managed is very straightforward. There’s also a good few solid moves like dsmash that while not described in much detail, I really like in concept. In general this set really nails all the animations for the character, I get the sense that you did put a good deal of thought into this aspect of the set. Usually when I’m reading a first set I can pinpoint a few moves that are out of place for their input, here I can’t say anything, you picked a good animation and good input for everything.
One of my major complaints is simply a lack of crucial detail on moves. The nair just says he does a sex kick, it doesn’t state the range, duration, I assume he does a literal sex kick but you at least need to state if it’s an average sex kick, if it resembles a certain character. Another one is grabbing, the grab range and speed is very important and should be stated. The side special doesn’t state the size of the “wave of sparkling masculine essence," and likewise the nspec projectile is only hinted to be similar to Samus’ homing missile. It’s a shame that these details are missing because I think this set has a good eye for animations and moves in general, but there’s a bit of a disconnect for the reader trying to understand how exactly these moves work.
For a set where I’d expect maybe no point or playstyle given the character, you do somehow manage to make a pretty decent playstyle. The taunt system is well balanced and it plays out well enough, it’s even accurate to his game where he wants to create distance to recharge, and can get obliterated when caught off guard. It’s again somewhat vague for example what moves he’d use out of his down special, and while the dair references the uspec no other aerial does, the way that jounetsu running out nerfs his set is never explained fully. I do like however that he is such an aerial focused character and does have some aerials that would be powerful enough to offset his weaknesses, it’s rare to see a heavyweight who has such an aerial focus. Though I have to assume he is heavy, as the set just says his size, not his weight. I’d definitely add a weight, fall speed, air speed and ground speed, and listing animations for how he moves would be good. It’d probably be a pretty interesting animation for this character.
I definitely enjoyed this set in spite of its flaws. Mostly I just want more details filled in, it’s a fun character and the set is surprisingly smart about its inputs and balance. The flavour and overall characterisation is great, I enjoyed all the extras and final smash too. It’s just an overall very solid presentation.
One of my major complaints is simply a lack of crucial detail on moves. The nair just says he does a sex kick, it doesn’t state the range, duration, I assume he does a literal sex kick but you at least need to state if it’s an average sex kick, if it resembles a certain character. Another one is grabbing, the grab range and speed is very important and should be stated. The side special doesn’t state the size of the “wave of sparkling masculine essence," and likewise the nspec projectile is only hinted to be similar to Samus’ homing missile. It’s a shame that these details are missing because I think this set has a good eye for animations and moves in general, but there’s a bit of a disconnect for the reader trying to understand how exactly these moves work.
For a set where I’d expect maybe no point or playstyle given the character, you do somehow manage to make a pretty decent playstyle. The taunt system is well balanced and it plays out well enough, it’s even accurate to his game where he wants to create distance to recharge, and can get obliterated when caught off guard. It’s again somewhat vague for example what moves he’d use out of his down special, and while the dair references the uspec no other aerial does, the way that jounetsu running out nerfs his set is never explained fully. I do like however that he is such an aerial focused character and does have some aerials that would be powerful enough to offset his weaknesses, it’s rare to see a heavyweight who has such an aerial focus. Though I have to assume he is heavy, as the set just says his size, not his weight. I’d definitely add a weight, fall speed, air speed and ground speed, and listing animations for how he moves would be good. It’d probably be a pretty interesting animation for this character.
I definitely enjoyed this set in spite of its flaws. Mostly I just want more details filled in, it’s a fun character and the set is surprisingly smart about its inputs and balance. The flavour and overall characterisation is great, I enjoyed all the extras and final smash too. It’s just an overall very solid presentation.
bubbyboytoo
Jebediah Kerman is a solid improvement on Blupi, mostly in its structure, stronger overall playstyle and keeping up the sense of fun, goofy characterisation I liked in Blupi. By comparison, Jeb relies on his tech and when it comes to stage control is a true conservative. He doesn't have the same zoning playstyle Blupi does where he's pushing the foe into his traps and instead is all about mobility and king of the hill, owning parts of the stage using his flag trap. I was surprised by the amount of mobility options Jeb has, ranging from the side special that's similar to Villager's Rocket and the up special is like ROB's up special, then there's the float/hover-like up aerial.For all of the mobility at his disposal, I didn't get a huge sense of what purpose the aerials served when his aerials have a ton of context they could be applied to, ranging from the side special (as he could recover from dangerous gimps or go far off stage) to up special (meaning all his aerials could be used while floating around) and up aerial (he can cancel his uair into any other aerial or special). The fact his solar panel and flag are ground based also seems to be a little bit of a missed opportunity when he is going to be spending all this time in the air and flying around, to the point I almost wanted to see an aerial version of neutral and down special.
There's a few more interesting moves post-specials that are the biggest part putting it above Blupi for me, the up aerial is an unorthodox quasi-float, but works too as a hitbox and has decent balance. The down tilt moving him around is a simple secondary mobility option on top of all his other ones. When he has such an aerial focus his up smash would've made sense to put Jeb into the air, at least if it was charged, that way he could have an interesting way to go into the air out of a dash too. As with Blupi though, I felt like you could go into more depth on the playstyle, but nonetheless this is a definite improvement on Blupi. Good going, and keep em coming.
Hey again @Ridrool64 great to see a new set so soon after Arle, this set hasn't got the production values of that set but Spongebob has a number of interesting ideas displaying your creative style. At one point the playstyle describes itself as "bizarre" and that the challenge in playing Spongebob is in understanding how many of these moves work, and to an extent that isn't a bad idea for a set but the set does get away from itself a little at times. Though on the other hand, it doesn't do anything truly horrible despite cutting it so close using all the props and wacky cartoony attacks it does, which when you get down to it feels very inspired for Spongebob. Before I get into the set proper I'd also like to give you props on the extras like the stage, ATs and other stuff. Did not expect the other Nick Toons to make an appearance. The stats usually are glossed over but I appreciated the effort you went to detailing all of those too, well done.
The set has a fairly strong start in the specials where Spongebob can charge to have stronger bowling balls, a missile and a recovery that can be stronger, at the expense of ledge snap. The last one of those is pretty smart as it's obviously what Cloud does in Smash 4 and it's a fun little mindgame for spongebob to play on the foe. However the worst part of the whole set I'd say is the second part of the Leaf Blower move, down special, where Spongebob inexplicably breaks foe's shields by blowing them away over 100%. As the move is also passive, this means foes are effectively banned from shielding once they hit 100% and that sucks even worse if you're a heavyweight who's likely to get that high in percent. I kind of dislike this move period for being passive, imagine how annoying it'd be if Mario had a permanent FLUDD, even the weakest version or half that strong would be very frustrating to play against. It makes sense for Spongebob to be kind of annoying, but it goes too far when the foe can't shield or even stay close without being passively blown away. It's just bad as compared to the other specials where the small improvements and balance shift made a lot of sense.
I don't have much specific commentary on the standards, these are generally fine moves and make sense for Spongebob, my only complaint is I'm not seeing a particularly cohesive playstyle for Spongebob out of these moves, even compared to his smashes, grab game and aerials. The one standard I wasn't happy about was dash attack as it seems weird to have to press B on a move where you press A to do it, without any intuitive way for the player to know that. Even just a visual clue like Spongebob glowing or doing an action related to his specials, or just a relevant single special, would make it far more intuitive and less random. This comes back again in neutral aerial and is just as weird. I don't get how anyone would know to do this outside of reading a guide. The moves aren't bad or anything outside of this, they're very logical extensions of the move, although the nair is a bit overpowered when he can fight characters reliant on projectiles like MegaMan. Just a cliffnote that nair reflects wasn't really needed unless you made it into more of a gimmick.
In the end this set was fairly creative like Arle and definitely fits the character well. I feel like it could be a lot more nuanced though because it didn't really reference the specials afterwards, and the smashes especially felt very under-elaborated compared to Arle. I also would've liked to see images after Arle was so well captioned, but that's not such a big deal, it did make me wonder on moves like uair which uses a cane apparently from a game I never played. Just hard to understand the reasoning for such moves when I don't know the source, because it seems kind of random. Overall though a lot of fun ideas mostly in the playstyle and on a conceptual level, I'd just work on the balance, making the set more intuitive and cohesive. Hope to see more from you in the future.
The set has a fairly strong start in the specials where Spongebob can charge to have stronger bowling balls, a missile and a recovery that can be stronger, at the expense of ledge snap. The last one of those is pretty smart as it's obviously what Cloud does in Smash 4 and it's a fun little mindgame for spongebob to play on the foe. However the worst part of the whole set I'd say is the second part of the Leaf Blower move, down special, where Spongebob inexplicably breaks foe's shields by blowing them away over 100%. As the move is also passive, this means foes are effectively banned from shielding once they hit 100% and that sucks even worse if you're a heavyweight who's likely to get that high in percent. I kind of dislike this move period for being passive, imagine how annoying it'd be if Mario had a permanent FLUDD, even the weakest version or half that strong would be very frustrating to play against. It makes sense for Spongebob to be kind of annoying, but it goes too far when the foe can't shield or even stay close without being passively blown away. It's just bad as compared to the other specials where the small improvements and balance shift made a lot of sense.
I don't have much specific commentary on the standards, these are generally fine moves and make sense for Spongebob, my only complaint is I'm not seeing a particularly cohesive playstyle for Spongebob out of these moves, even compared to his smashes, grab game and aerials. The one standard I wasn't happy about was dash attack as it seems weird to have to press B on a move where you press A to do it, without any intuitive way for the player to know that. Even just a visual clue like Spongebob glowing or doing an action related to his specials, or just a relevant single special, would make it far more intuitive and less random. This comes back again in neutral aerial and is just as weird. I don't get how anyone would know to do this outside of reading a guide. The moves aren't bad or anything outside of this, they're very logical extensions of the move, although the nair is a bit overpowered when he can fight characters reliant on projectiles like MegaMan. Just a cliffnote that nair reflects wasn't really needed unless you made it into more of a gimmick.
In the end this set was fairly creative like Arle and definitely fits the character well. I feel like it could be a lot more nuanced though because it didn't really reference the specials afterwards, and the smashes especially felt very under-elaborated compared to Arle. I also would've liked to see images after Arle was so well captioned, but that's not such a big deal, it did make me wonder on moves like uair which uses a cane apparently from a game I never played. Just hard to understand the reasoning for such moves when I don't know the source, because it seems kind of random. Overall though a lot of fun ideas mostly in the playstyle and on a conceptual level, I'd just work on the balance, making the set more intuitive and cohesive. Hope to see more from you in the future.
Shantae was an interesting set, I didn’t know she had such potential! In all seriousness SCRATCH is a fun experiment that is a surprisingly decent set beneath some quirky mechanics and an entertaining read. The main detriment to the set is it doesn’t try to explain the duplicates mechanic in the up special. They’re all controlled at the same time? What one does the player control? Can’t you just keep using up special and down smash intermittently to recover forever as you delete duplicates and then recover? You could get high enough percent to die in one hit and negate the mechanic, especially when she’s so easy to hit, but it could just as easily seesaw in the other direction too. That’s the one mechanic I thought was a little busted.
It’s surprising then that the rest of the set avoids any huge mistakes because it does try and have a unique trait in every move. I don’t mind the ftilt mechanic, I would’ve liked an icon or asterisk for these claw moves, still a good idea. The smashes had some neat concepts in there if a little half-baked, as said the dsmash + uspec is a little broken, but those were some fun moves. I’m not sure the balance was thought out for stacking status effects, and generally the set is fairly random when it does introduce such mechanics. What status effects does SCRATCH even have to abuse this? Not a ton, and in general the set is definitely quite unfocused. I also second that the 12 frames of lag is a little steep. The overall idea is good but the set has a lot of unpolished areas.
Overall however I still really enjoyed reading the set for one obvious reason, the writing style is incredibly funny. There’s a distinct sense of humour in this set that is rare to come by in MYM, it’s a very dry and somewhat insulting humour, that when directed at basically a random character like Shantae is really amusing to read. It’s shocking how well you keep up the joke without it getting old or it getting in the way of the moveset. In the same vein the set is very, very experimental and definitely has a few sketchy parts to its balance, but manages to toe the line in not being absolutely broken. As is, the main thing keeping SCRATCH balanced is tripling her own potential to take damage on up special, or it would be stupidly broken. I would’ve preferred if the set had polished its balance in a few key areas, but I can’t deny I had a ton of fun reading it and I’m glad it exists.
Post-edits edit: The new SCRATCH is easily my favourite set of yours now you've changed all the worst moves, reworked the clones, gotten rid of some of the clunkier mechanics. The characterization also shines through with the erratic but coldly logical AI of the forks. I really like the new nair animation and the set is generally about 10x slicker, more cohesive and feels less experimental, while keeping what I liked about the experimental elements! A massive improvement Lex, great job.
It’s surprising then that the rest of the set avoids any huge mistakes because it does try and have a unique trait in every move. I don’t mind the ftilt mechanic, I would’ve liked an icon or asterisk for these claw moves, still a good idea. The smashes had some neat concepts in there if a little half-baked, as said the dsmash + uspec is a little broken, but those were some fun moves. I’m not sure the balance was thought out for stacking status effects, and generally the set is fairly random when it does introduce such mechanics. What status effects does SCRATCH even have to abuse this? Not a ton, and in general the set is definitely quite unfocused. I also second that the 12 frames of lag is a little steep. The overall idea is good but the set has a lot of unpolished areas.
Overall however I still really enjoyed reading the set for one obvious reason, the writing style is incredibly funny. There’s a distinct sense of humour in this set that is rare to come by in MYM, it’s a very dry and somewhat insulting humour, that when directed at basically a random character like Shantae is really amusing to read. It’s shocking how well you keep up the joke without it getting old or it getting in the way of the moveset. In the same vein the set is very, very experimental and definitely has a few sketchy parts to its balance, but manages to toe the line in not being absolutely broken. As is, the main thing keeping SCRATCH balanced is tripling her own potential to take damage on up special, or it would be stupidly broken. I would’ve preferred if the set had polished its balance in a few key areas, but I can’t deny I had a ton of fun reading it and I’m glad it exists.
Post-edits edit: The new SCRATCH is easily my favourite set of yours now you've changed all the worst moves, reworked the clones, gotten rid of some of the clunkier mechanics. The characterization also shines through with the erratic but coldly logical AI of the forks. I really like the new nair animation and the set is generally about 10x slicker, more cohesive and feels less experimental, while keeping what I liked about the experimental elements! A massive improvement Lex, great job.
Is this a joke, or...? I don't get it. The techno stuff, especially at the end where her Final Smash seemingly doesn't exist. The set is nice, though.
SCRATCH
The presentation on this set as "hijacking" another set is clever, and definitely gives the set a bit of a unique atmosphere. I know I'm not exactly the presentation guy, but I do love seeing sets get the "feel" of their character down, and even without a proper description of what this OC is I at least got a sense of what they're like. The set COULD really use that though, as I'd like to know what this thing is even supposed to be beyond just "a glitch creature", but I recognize its a bit hard to fit into the presentation as is. Organization aside, the set has some fun concepts, with an ability to modify your moves that you get if you interrupt opponent's attacks successfully. Now, as is, the move that allows this needs to be changed quite badly as adding 12 frames of lag to every move in the opponent's set is obscene and basically prevents them from attacking for seven seconds, but you at least seem like you want to change that.
Now I'll just throw in a bunch of other number crunching complaints that you can easily fix while we're here:
*Side B is another move that feels like it basically shuts off the opponent's ability to attack SCRATCH while its active, albeit its not as strong as the original Neutral B in that regard. Sharing full damage just seems a bit too much to me, if it was half or a third it'd feel a lot less unfun to play against.
*Down B probably holds things a bit too long at 1.5 seconds, it'd be nice to get back to the action a little faster. I'd make it half that duration but allow for faster movement of the grabbed target, or at least half it for opponents.
*I'm not a fan of giving the foe a randomized status effect in general, but the ones she gets out of a throw are too powerful to get off a simple grab, at least right now. This is fine if you nerf them, admittedly, but its worth mentioning.
Now for other commentary, the sets intentional weirdness is fun, but it definitely runs into a bunch of problems in the process. For every neat idea the set has like the clones that act as a liability but have interesting implications with damage sharing, the damage sharing which is a concept I'm fond of in general, and the ability to tweak projectile damage and positioning via the cursor, it has a bunch of ones that feel really wonky. Forward Tilt feels really, really awkward on a tilt and I was never fond of the idea of "latching" your attack hitboxes onto the opponent as a rule. Two of her smashes are a projectile that deals no knockback and a weird extending grab. Vanish in general is a terrible idea, as it basically just exists as a weird stalling mechanism that puts the opponent in the position of having one move to interact with you, even if its for a short time, and would be better off cut from the moveset. Up Tilt randomly deals self-damage and on paper, I don't mind her having self-damage, you can't utilize the potential for multiplying damage with clones at all with it which is arguably the most interesting part of that concept, and its basically just an afterthought tacked onto a tilt. Something like an explosion that could hit all parties would be a lot more interesting. There's also the Nair invisibility, and honestly, the problem with all these random concepts is they don't really feel like they add up to much. It feels more like an idea dump and an attempt to make the character come across as weird moreso than it does anything contributing to a cohesive whole, as by the end of the set I didn't really feel it took much advantage of the concepts it initially showed off. It wasn't without its moments though, I did like Down Smash and with some tweaking the specials would all be pretty good.
As a final aside, I do like people posting this kind of set regardless of the fact that I feel its overall quality is pretty low. This kind of "idea dump" set was a thing that was much more popular back in the MYM13 era, with sets like Oogie Boogie, Putata, and Lizard spawning from it, and throwing out concepts on an open ended character at least gives something for other setmakers to borrow for their own sets later, or for people to make on their own. Obviously Scratch is tamer in that regard than those old sets, having plenty of more generic attacks, but that's probably necessary to balance it. Its a shame those attacks don't really contribute much to the concepts you presented elsewhere in the set, and later on especially in the grab game the whole thing starts to feel a little phoned in. You even drop the whole Shantae thing once you hit the grab game, though I could practically watch you getting more and more exhausted with it as the set went on.
The presentation on this set as "hijacking" another set is clever, and definitely gives the set a bit of a unique atmosphere. I know I'm not exactly the presentation guy, but I do love seeing sets get the "feel" of their character down, and even without a proper description of what this OC is I at least got a sense of what they're like. The set COULD really use that though, as I'd like to know what this thing is even supposed to be beyond just "a glitch creature", but I recognize its a bit hard to fit into the presentation as is. Organization aside, the set has some fun concepts, with an ability to modify your moves that you get if you interrupt opponent's attacks successfully. Now, as is, the move that allows this needs to be changed quite badly as adding 12 frames of lag to every move in the opponent's set is obscene and basically prevents them from attacking for seven seconds, but you at least seem like you want to change that.
Now I'll just throw in a bunch of other number crunching complaints that you can easily fix while we're here:
*Side B is another move that feels like it basically shuts off the opponent's ability to attack SCRATCH while its active, albeit its not as strong as the original Neutral B in that regard. Sharing full damage just seems a bit too much to me, if it was half or a third it'd feel a lot less unfun to play against.
*Down B probably holds things a bit too long at 1.5 seconds, it'd be nice to get back to the action a little faster. I'd make it half that duration but allow for faster movement of the grabbed target, or at least half it for opponents.
*I'm not a fan of giving the foe a randomized status effect in general, but the ones she gets out of a throw are too powerful to get off a simple grab, at least right now. This is fine if you nerf them, admittedly, but its worth mentioning.
Now for other commentary, the sets intentional weirdness is fun, but it definitely runs into a bunch of problems in the process. For every neat idea the set has like the clones that act as a liability but have interesting implications with damage sharing, the damage sharing which is a concept I'm fond of in general, and the ability to tweak projectile damage and positioning via the cursor, it has a bunch of ones that feel really wonky. Forward Tilt feels really, really awkward on a tilt and I was never fond of the idea of "latching" your attack hitboxes onto the opponent as a rule. Two of her smashes are a projectile that deals no knockback and a weird extending grab. Vanish in general is a terrible idea, as it basically just exists as a weird stalling mechanism that puts the opponent in the position of having one move to interact with you, even if its for a short time, and would be better off cut from the moveset. Up Tilt randomly deals self-damage and on paper, I don't mind her having self-damage, you can't utilize the potential for multiplying damage with clones at all with it which is arguably the most interesting part of that concept, and its basically just an afterthought tacked onto a tilt. Something like an explosion that could hit all parties would be a lot more interesting. There's also the Nair invisibility, and honestly, the problem with all these random concepts is they don't really feel like they add up to much. It feels more like an idea dump and an attempt to make the character come across as weird moreso than it does anything contributing to a cohesive whole, as by the end of the set I didn't really feel it took much advantage of the concepts it initially showed off. It wasn't without its moments though, I did like Down Smash and with some tweaking the specials would all be pretty good.
As a final aside, I do like people posting this kind of set regardless of the fact that I feel its overall quality is pretty low. This kind of "idea dump" set was a thing that was much more popular back in the MYM13 era, with sets like Oogie Boogie, Putata, and Lizard spawning from it, and throwing out concepts on an open ended character at least gives something for other setmakers to borrow for their own sets later, or for people to make on their own. Obviously Scratch is tamer in that regard than those old sets, having plenty of more generic attacks, but that's probably necessary to balance it. Its a shame those attacks don't really contribute much to the concepts you presented elsewhere in the set, and later on especially in the grab game the whole thing starts to feel a little phoned in. You even drop the whole Shantae thing once you hit the grab game, though I could practically watch you getting more and more exhausted with it as the set went on.
SCRATCH is a moveset that's thoughtfully and humorously presented, which is quite a boon for an original character. You don't provide any backstory at all which means the reader must infer from Shantae's presentation and characterization what she's all about. It's an approach that's different from the typical expository introductory paragraph and the corruption of a moveset we never get to see through bait-and-switch and the red text consuming Shantae's white makes for a far more memorable reading experience.
Shantae has a very clear design philosophy of four distinct special moves that drive the playstyle of the rest of the moves. You do a great job of building a set around them and working the very different mechanics of each move together into a whole. Down Special and Up Special seem the most relevant to the playstyle, with Side Special and Neutral Special coming in a close second. I was a little skeptical at first of an AI Clone Minion-based playstyle but you do quite a good job describing how the Forks interact with Shantae's individual moves, and I found myself looking forward to how Forks would behave as I read the moves.
The Side Special is actually my favorite move in the set, specifically the function of embedding in the foe and making Shantae's claw moves appear within immediate range. This is an interesting neutral and combo tool that has just the right amount of lag. The Neutral Special is pretty interesting as well, I'm a big fan of Vulnerability. I recognize the usefulness of the Up Special and Down Special as they are cornerstones of Shantae's kit, and they're just my kind of effects. I wouldn't turn down playing SCRATCH as they're pretty cool moves, especially the usage of Severity.
I love how much personality Shantae has in her various attack animations. This attention to character is something that original characters deliver on well, and you did a great job. I also love how much SCRATCH's characterization fills in the move descriptions rather than phrases like "Not much to say about this," or "This is just a simple attack," and so on. I appreciate your time and dedication to the moveset especially since you've taken it on as a pet project. Also, I'd love for some taunts and victory poses as you have an interesting character and I'm sure you could do some fun stuff with those.
The meat of the set is pretty competent at both damage racking and self-damage through Forks, and the knockback on some of Shantae's moves is either on the light side or weighted towards heavy, with very punishable lag on the heavy moves. Considering Shantae's size and range, I love that there are some medium-strength attacks to interact with Vulnerability, such as the tilts. I'm happy there's at least one claw Smash, as I think the choice between an uncharged Smash interrupting a Vulnerable foe for a weaker Process Kill or going for a riskier charged one as a call for a satisfying payoff. I do like that you prevented Forks from using Down Smash as freezing their hitbox in place with a Down Smash hitbox out could be problematic. Speaking of the Smashes, SCRATCH's Up Smash is just perfect and I don't have any questions about it.
The set keeps the reader's interest throughout the moveset, largely due to your writing and the really cool attack animations. There's a good amount of detail and excitement here. You have a lot of interesting mechanics in play with Shantae and a really cool character that's ripe with potential. I'm really glad you didn't opt for generic and uninspiring sex kicks and simple tosses near the end. You had a lot of potential with SCRATCH and didn't waste it at all! The moves are very servicable to SCRATCH's playstyle and it very rarely loses the wow factor. I'm satisfied that you integrated Severity into these moves so it can be used for more attacks, and the interaction between the grab game and the Side Special is awesome.
Lastly, I like the concept of sharing damage and attacking your own Forks, and SCRATCH being Marth's weight means she can survive long enough to take advantage of it, a perfectly reasonable build I'd want to self-damage myself for. Pichu does self damage but the pros can take advantage of Pichu's stats and power to top Pikachu in the competitive scene, and casuals come around to Pichu's strengths eventually, so imagine what they'd think of SCRATCH! Hidan got the idea right of having him being a heavyweight, but SCRATCH can utilize it just as efficiently. I understand that it's optional, but self-damage is such an important aspect of SCRATCH that it has to be what the playstyle is built around.
Shantae is your best work, I'd say. An enjoyable reading experience, and an excellent exposition on core ideas throughout, and probably the best set I've read this contest for the cause of "Specials Matter". You have a very effective kit of moves that services both playstyle and reader excitement, and a moveset that doesn't care if we like Shantae or not. I actually didn't have any balance or gameplay concerns, so the moveset itself is perfectly balanced, as all things should be. I think SCRATCH is truly awesome.
SCRATCH
Scratch has some interesting concepts in the Specials with Neutral Special rewarding you for attacking the foe during startup, and of course everything to do with the Forks. Using the Forks as "voodoo dolls", as you put it, can be interesting, and the most interesting part is the dynamic in their creation making her recovery a lot weaker. The Forks are a finite resource that can't be wasted given recovery, but are too important of offensive presence to remove.
The main moveset after the specials were over didn't do it for me, unfortunately. The melee game is very barebones, with the most moves will reference each other being used in the context of others being something like a generic combo uthrow most of the time. It's not that there aren't creative effects in here with moves like the Sukapon usmash, the Rayman nair, or the shark uair, but it reads like a set not particularly aware of playstyle to me. The moveset does not even attempt to address dealing with the foe when you're voodooing a Fork to damage the foe, it doesn't try to work that into fighting the foe at the same time at all. Most moves are clearly written either with the intention of using them on the foe or on forks, not both. You wrote dtilt and utilt with the intention of using them on your construct and little else, while some other moves do at least have some use, like dsmash and bthrow, but the only real text that isn't interacting with a fork is generic and has minimal place in Scratch's gameplan. Apparently, the playstyle centerpiece of trading damage from forks to foes was added retroactively, and it really shows.
There was absolutely nothing done with the gimmick in the first move to try to communicate her gameplan of hitting the foe during the starting lag of their attacks. You could have had counterish moves, created contexts where the foe is frantic to attack in close quarters combat, made moves to punish their defensive options, but we got none of that. This is what is required to get a lot of the bonuses that the set considers relevant to itself in the first place. Everything said about embedding your claws in the foe also largely applies to embedding your tail in the foe, the moveset just acts like this is something you can casually do whenever you want and doesn't even try to justify how these moves are landed, just on the reward. You skipped an important part in designing how the moveset practically accomplishes its goals, and are more focused on just making moves try to be less bland.
I don't know why the Neutral Special discriminates against superarmor either, given that's irrelevant to the set. We have plenty of sets in MYM and out of it who have superarmor as one of their main gimmicks, like K. Rool, Bowser, Diancie, and Artorias. The healing discrimination on Down Special is a lesser concern given that's less common, but has no real reason to exist either other than to discriminate.
Dtilt on a fork infinites yourself until the foe hits you out of it or comes within a Bowser width. God help you if you do this on accident when the fork's damage is not linked to the foe. Even if it is, you're still taking damage anyway. Foes now have infinite set-up time, and if they have a strong move with a range longer than a Bowser Width, then can use that for free. This must be fixed to be leaveable voluntarily or the set is like 3 stars.
The utilt does 3% self damage to yourself every time, and has the character backflip and collapse on their face every time? That's a hard sell on a clumsy oaf character, let alone this. The animation reads more like a dsmash, and the self damage is there entirely for the gimmick with forks. There is largely no reason to ever use this move outside of when you're already in a heavy advantage state, and even then you have far faster methods to attack your Forks/yourself anyway. Yes, Pichu does self damage to himself and doesn't care, but he has no real choice given most of his moveset does it, and it's attempting to counterbalance him being an otherwise overpowered mess.
Uair's gimmick relies on the existence of platforms and outside of that is very generic. I don't find it a particularly inspiring move in the first place even with the gimmick, but to have a move like this, you need to emphasize more why your character should play on a stage with platforms in the first place, rather than having a token gimmick move that does this.
This is an OC that does whatever you want it to because of glitches, but I can't help but find usmash tacky when it's extending your range upward infinitely and a grab hitbox at the same time. If the character can do this, why isn't this the recovery, anyway? Because extending vertically up infinitely high isn't enough, it can also spawn underneath the foe if you have stacks of the claws.
Fsmash is a pretty simple move that has nothing really wrong with it, but just shows how blatantly incompatible my movesetting philosophy is with this moveset. Are you not even going to try to talk about practical set-ups when fsmash turns a duplicate into a trap, keeping its hitbox out forever? Not going to try to address the best options, why it's not overpowered, nothing like that? There's so much more you can talk about for what it does for the playstyle, and you just don't seem to care about the implications something like this has for gameplay. You don't even go over the best options for when you stun the foe themselves with the fsmash, everything is just so underdetailed because of being afraid of being imbalanced. If I don't know what I can even use out of a stun like fsmash, it tells me very, very little about how this character plays outside of universal generic stuff any character has.
The fsmash cares little enough it doesn't even bother trying to deal with very basic things like infinite/very powerful chain grabs. All you even have to do is freeze the fork into a weak move like shorthop fair or something, which is their favorite move to use, then use a throw against them. Dthrow puts the foe in prone. You do at least have the decency to make the minions have specific behavior during the throws so you can't abuse them for this kind of thing normally, but if they're fsmashed they're not obeying that behavior either. You just dthrow them in prone, the fork wakes them up and refreshes the grab counter, you grab again. The moveset doesn't even try to address this kind of stuff, it's so underdetailed. This is a pretty casual thing to get rid of and I'm sure you will, but I'm just offended about the moveset not being more interested in how it works with itself.
I am sorry, but I really did not like this set. I am very hesitant to read movesets nowadays because of how different/negative my opinions tend to be from everyone else. Lambasting popular sets doesn't make you very popular.
Scratch has some interesting concepts in the Specials with Neutral Special rewarding you for attacking the foe during startup, and of course everything to do with the Forks. Using the Forks as "voodoo dolls", as you put it, can be interesting, and the most interesting part is the dynamic in their creation making her recovery a lot weaker. The Forks are a finite resource that can't be wasted given recovery, but are too important of offensive presence to remove.
The main moveset after the specials were over didn't do it for me, unfortunately. The melee game is very barebones, with the most moves will reference each other being used in the context of others being something like a generic combo uthrow most of the time. It's not that there aren't creative effects in here with moves like the Sukapon usmash, the Rayman nair, or the shark uair, but it reads like a set not particularly aware of playstyle to me. The moveset does not even attempt to address dealing with the foe when you're voodooing a Fork to damage the foe, it doesn't try to work that into fighting the foe at the same time at all. Most moves are clearly written either with the intention of using them on the foe or on forks, not both. You wrote dtilt and utilt with the intention of using them on your construct and little else, while some other moves do at least have some use, like dsmash and bthrow, but the only real text that isn't interacting with a fork is generic and has minimal place in Scratch's gameplan. Apparently, the playstyle centerpiece of trading damage from forks to foes was added retroactively, and it really shows.
There was absolutely nothing done with the gimmick in the first move to try to communicate her gameplan of hitting the foe during the starting lag of their attacks. You could have had counterish moves, created contexts where the foe is frantic to attack in close quarters combat, made moves to punish their defensive options, but we got none of that. This is what is required to get a lot of the bonuses that the set considers relevant to itself in the first place. Everything said about embedding your claws in the foe also largely applies to embedding your tail in the foe, the moveset just acts like this is something you can casually do whenever you want and doesn't even try to justify how these moves are landed, just on the reward. You skipped an important part in designing how the moveset practically accomplishes its goals, and are more focused on just making moves try to be less bland.
I don't know why the Neutral Special discriminates against superarmor either, given that's irrelevant to the set. We have plenty of sets in MYM and out of it who have superarmor as one of their main gimmicks, like K. Rool, Bowser, Diancie, and Artorias. The healing discrimination on Down Special is a lesser concern given that's less common, but has no real reason to exist either other than to discriminate.
Dtilt on a fork infinites yourself until the foe hits you out of it or comes within a Bowser width. God help you if you do this on accident when the fork's damage is not linked to the foe. Even if it is, you're still taking damage anyway. Foes now have infinite set-up time, and if they have a strong move with a range longer than a Bowser Width, then can use that for free. This must be fixed to be leaveable voluntarily or the set is like 3 stars.
The utilt does 3% self damage to yourself every time, and has the character backflip and collapse on their face every time? That's a hard sell on a clumsy oaf character, let alone this. The animation reads more like a dsmash, and the self damage is there entirely for the gimmick with forks. There is largely no reason to ever use this move outside of when you're already in a heavy advantage state, and even then you have far faster methods to attack your Forks/yourself anyway. Yes, Pichu does self damage to himself and doesn't care, but he has no real choice given most of his moveset does it, and it's attempting to counterbalance him being an otherwise overpowered mess.
Uair's gimmick relies on the existence of platforms and outside of that is very generic. I don't find it a particularly inspiring move in the first place even with the gimmick, but to have a move like this, you need to emphasize more why your character should play on a stage with platforms in the first place, rather than having a token gimmick move that does this.
This is an OC that does whatever you want it to because of glitches, but I can't help but find usmash tacky when it's extending your range upward infinitely and a grab hitbox at the same time. If the character can do this, why isn't this the recovery, anyway? Because extending vertically up infinitely high isn't enough, it can also spawn underneath the foe if you have stacks of the claws.
Fsmash is a pretty simple move that has nothing really wrong with it, but just shows how blatantly incompatible my movesetting philosophy is with this moveset. Are you not even going to try to talk about practical set-ups when fsmash turns a duplicate into a trap, keeping its hitbox out forever? Not going to try to address the best options, why it's not overpowered, nothing like that? There's so much more you can talk about for what it does for the playstyle, and you just don't seem to care about the implications something like this has for gameplay. You don't even go over the best options for when you stun the foe themselves with the fsmash, everything is just so underdetailed because of being afraid of being imbalanced. If I don't know what I can even use out of a stun like fsmash, it tells me very, very little about how this character plays outside of universal generic stuff any character has.
The fsmash cares little enough it doesn't even bother trying to deal with very basic things like infinite/very powerful chain grabs. All you even have to do is freeze the fork into a weak move like shorthop fair or something, which is their favorite move to use, then use a throw against them. Dthrow puts the foe in prone. You do at least have the decency to make the minions have specific behavior during the throws so you can't abuse them for this kind of thing normally, but if they're fsmashed they're not obeying that behavior either. You just dthrow them in prone, the fork wakes them up and refreshes the grab counter, you grab again. The moveset doesn't even try to address this kind of stuff, it's so underdetailed. This is a pretty casual thing to get rid of and I'm sure you will, but I'm just offended about the moveset not being more interested in how it works with itself.
I am sorry, but I really did not like this set. I am very hesitant to read movesets nowadays because of how different/negative my opinions tend to be from everyone else. Lambasting popular sets doesn't make you very popular.
Calling a Spade a Spade (Blados @Smash Daddy)
Okay, so first off, something I probably wouldn't go into much but it actually seemed to affect thoughts of move ranges: Blados' sword really doesn't seem that big, especially not bigger than Cloud's sword. I could see an argument for longer, but the sword is more thin than bulky, and Cloud's sword is preeeetty big. Compare Cloud's stupid hunk of metal to Blados in the offical artwork or in the game, I think Cloud's sword is like twice the thickness. I bring this up because some of the ranges in this set felt off to me, particularly Forward Smash (which can be larger than Bowser if down angled), and in general for range Ike's sword (which is more similarly shaped) feels like a more apt comparison. Not necessarily a big deal but it jumped out at me and is something I'm going to bring up.
Blados starts off with some fairly cool mechanics in the way that his portals work, along with his Shadow Shield. I applaud the use of a different direction for portals, especially the use of it as a momentum booster which seems quite beneficial for a character with a stronger melee focus (compared to many more projectile oriented portal sets) while having some insta-teleportation tricls. Shadow Shield is interesting not just with the shield buff, a kind of thing MYM rarely plays with, but an orbitting projectile mechanic which is fairly neat at a base. It also works well with the grenade Side Special which plays pretty well into shield pressure. Personally, I thought the Down Special was a strong move to pair with the Shield Special: Not only is it a pretty cool move on its own with the differentiation of charged vs. non-charged, and a nice interpretation of the animation, but the fact it can serve as a psuedo-dodge is a good idea to pair with buffing his shield, so the opponent can't go too hard on just punishing the shield lest they be punished. A question, though: Why does his Up Special super armor him when teleporting when, AFAIK, you can't hit Zelda etc until they come out of their teleport anyway?
The smashes are...okay. This is kind of a spot where the set lost me for a bit, in part because Up Smash (which I actually like) and Down Smash are worded in a way that made them rather difficult to follow. The way the Up Smash lightning loops precisely in terms of the actual hitbox's path along with the timing and intricacies of the Shadow Shield expansion are dense and kind of confusion. Up Smash at least gives back in being a rather cool move that has some clever applications once understood and works into Shadow Shield as well. Down Smash, though, I wasn't really a fan, the portal interaction feels weak and all of the Shadow Shield shifting feels there to be busywork rather than actually especially relevant to how Blados plays. This is especially true with Blados being able to shift both sides seperately and stuff, given Blados mostly uses his Shadow Shield to supplement a lot of his melee game I find it difficult to imagine him wanting to mess with this a lot and I'm not so sure that changing both sides seperately is all that useful. I feel like the Down Smash potentially could have worked into his game better by cutting down or streamlining these interactions and adding in more work into his melee game. Oh, and Forward Smash is cool but I don't have a lot to explicitly say about it.
Jab and F-Tilt feel like they should be switched, given Jab is the more powerful of the two and forces Blados to move while Jab is weaker and does not: Mega Man's lemons sets precedence for either and this is perhaps minor anyway. The standards, for the most part, are all kill moves with the exception of Forward Tilt, with Up Tilt killing at 100% feeling rather...odd given it actually is not all that laggy from the description and that it kills better than any of his smashes and as much as his laggy Down Tilt (Dash Attack, being slightly stronger than Link's Dash Attack, probably kills earlier). That Jab also feels like it kills rather early given the speed: It kills only 10% later than blados' strongest Smash!
This brings me to some issues I have here, mixing in to the grab game and aerials for a bit: Various moves of Blados suggest portal movements for combos or Back Theow as a combo move (but his options are also limited??), but what the hell does Blados combo with? 4 of his standards are kill moves with one being a weak projectile which is a bit more for use with his projectile mechanic, none of his Smashes work into combos except maybe as a finisher (Down Smash mostly, I guess?) and for aerials he basically has FAir. In general, I'm not sure what Blados' melee playstyle is trying to be aside from "projectile orbit for safety = good": He doesn't seem particularly adept at baiting and punishing, or comboing, and while he has a multitude of kill moves they aren't super heavy killers either, he isn't a grappler with a super strong grab game or anything, I do see where a shield pressure playstyle goes with the grenade and dynamite, but he doesn't feel like he really has the tools to effectively do that (I don't think a single one of his standards is safe on shield, nor do his non-BAirs seem to work well as, say, shorthop play against a shield). And yes, I read the playstyle section, which predominately talks about Blados' trapping capabilities: I, personally, didn't think that he had a ton to offer there (He only has a few true options to work with), but even then backing it up with a strong melee playstyle is key and the melee feels like a strong focus anyway. This is probably the biggest issue I have with the set.
Throw-wise, Forward Throw has a really cool concept actually, but I'm not 100% sold on the execution (though in this case it is more "I feel the overall options could perhaps be better") and the two portal effect seems like its pretty much strictly worse than the one portal ones. Also, this move claims it is "easily Blados' most damaging throw. " of Blados...but it deals 10.5% while his Back Throw deals 12%, Up Throw deals 13% and Down Throw deals 12% if the dynamite goes off. It is literally only more powerful than a Down Throw that doesn't go off. This is probably just an oversight, but come on. The dynamite is good and works well into the grenade's playstyle (tho the animation struck me as kinda cartoonish), Back Throw seems good although I'm not sure how much it starts combos since like the move earlier states he has limited options. Up Throw is mostly good, but I will say the stuff about the impromptu Teleport Rush and its uses felt a bit vague and unclear to me.
Aerials are mostly fine, nothing special but nothing bad and I did enjoy Down Aerial's angling. It really feels like he wishes like he had some kind of poking aerial though, as right now he feels pretty unsafe in general and it would really help out with his shield pressure game. I did also enjoy Forward Aerial and Neutral Aerial, I feel like perhaps Back Aerial should become more of a combo-usable poking tool, even if his FAir would still make this awkward, to perhaps help out with some of these issues to some degree (although this alone wouldn'y solve them overall).
I would say that overall I enjoyed Blados, but this was more for some individual move interactions and a strong core of Specials rather than as strong of a cohesive whole as some of your other sets. The portals and using them with stuff like Jab's movement is fun, the Shield Special offers a rarely seen style of twist on projectile manipulation, and they are integrated smartly with other Specials and projectiles in the set. But when it comes to the overall gameplan he seems lacking, and he additionally has oddities like his standards being so strong and often kind of oversaturating the kill move market (Up Tilt should probably be something aside from a kill move, IMO) and I feel like it could take better advantage of melee tools it has. Enjoyable, but not your best...sadly, I don't have time to read Chalis tonight, but I will say I am pretty interested in it, since another thing I liked about these characters was being a little different (and yet also somewhat close!) to normal fare.
Okay, so first off, something I probably wouldn't go into much but it actually seemed to affect thoughts of move ranges: Blados' sword really doesn't seem that big, especially not bigger than Cloud's sword. I could see an argument for longer, but the sword is more thin than bulky, and Cloud's sword is preeeetty big. Compare Cloud's stupid hunk of metal to Blados in the offical artwork or in the game, I think Cloud's sword is like twice the thickness. I bring this up because some of the ranges in this set felt off to me, particularly Forward Smash (which can be larger than Bowser if down angled), and in general for range Ike's sword (which is more similarly shaped) feels like a more apt comparison. Not necessarily a big deal but it jumped out at me and is something I'm going to bring up.
Blados starts off with some fairly cool mechanics in the way that his portals work, along with his Shadow Shield. I applaud the use of a different direction for portals, especially the use of it as a momentum booster which seems quite beneficial for a character with a stronger melee focus (compared to many more projectile oriented portal sets) while having some insta-teleportation tricls. Shadow Shield is interesting not just with the shield buff, a kind of thing MYM rarely plays with, but an orbitting projectile mechanic which is fairly neat at a base. It also works well with the grenade Side Special which plays pretty well into shield pressure. Personally, I thought the Down Special was a strong move to pair with the Shield Special: Not only is it a pretty cool move on its own with the differentiation of charged vs. non-charged, and a nice interpretation of the animation, but the fact it can serve as a psuedo-dodge is a good idea to pair with buffing his shield, so the opponent can't go too hard on just punishing the shield lest they be punished. A question, though: Why does his Up Special super armor him when teleporting when, AFAIK, you can't hit Zelda etc until they come out of their teleport anyway?
The smashes are...okay. This is kind of a spot where the set lost me for a bit, in part because Up Smash (which I actually like) and Down Smash are worded in a way that made them rather difficult to follow. The way the Up Smash lightning loops precisely in terms of the actual hitbox's path along with the timing and intricacies of the Shadow Shield expansion are dense and kind of confusion. Up Smash at least gives back in being a rather cool move that has some clever applications once understood and works into Shadow Shield as well. Down Smash, though, I wasn't really a fan, the portal interaction feels weak and all of the Shadow Shield shifting feels there to be busywork rather than actually especially relevant to how Blados plays. This is especially true with Blados being able to shift both sides seperately and stuff, given Blados mostly uses his Shadow Shield to supplement a lot of his melee game I find it difficult to imagine him wanting to mess with this a lot and I'm not so sure that changing both sides seperately is all that useful. I feel like the Down Smash potentially could have worked into his game better by cutting down or streamlining these interactions and adding in more work into his melee game. Oh, and Forward Smash is cool but I don't have a lot to explicitly say about it.
Jab and F-Tilt feel like they should be switched, given Jab is the more powerful of the two and forces Blados to move while Jab is weaker and does not: Mega Man's lemons sets precedence for either and this is perhaps minor anyway. The standards, for the most part, are all kill moves with the exception of Forward Tilt, with Up Tilt killing at 100% feeling rather...odd given it actually is not all that laggy from the description and that it kills better than any of his smashes and as much as his laggy Down Tilt (Dash Attack, being slightly stronger than Link's Dash Attack, probably kills earlier). That Jab also feels like it kills rather early given the speed: It kills only 10% later than blados' strongest Smash!
This brings me to some issues I have here, mixing in to the grab game and aerials for a bit: Various moves of Blados suggest portal movements for combos or Back Theow as a combo move (but his options are also limited??), but what the hell does Blados combo with? 4 of his standards are kill moves with one being a weak projectile which is a bit more for use with his projectile mechanic, none of his Smashes work into combos except maybe as a finisher (Down Smash mostly, I guess?) and for aerials he basically has FAir. In general, I'm not sure what Blados' melee playstyle is trying to be aside from "projectile orbit for safety = good": He doesn't seem particularly adept at baiting and punishing, or comboing, and while he has a multitude of kill moves they aren't super heavy killers either, he isn't a grappler with a super strong grab game or anything, I do see where a shield pressure playstyle goes with the grenade and dynamite, but he doesn't feel like he really has the tools to effectively do that (I don't think a single one of his standards is safe on shield, nor do his non-BAirs seem to work well as, say, shorthop play against a shield). And yes, I read the playstyle section, which predominately talks about Blados' trapping capabilities: I, personally, didn't think that he had a ton to offer there (He only has a few true options to work with), but even then backing it up with a strong melee playstyle is key and the melee feels like a strong focus anyway. This is probably the biggest issue I have with the set.
Throw-wise, Forward Throw has a really cool concept actually, but I'm not 100% sold on the execution (though in this case it is more "I feel the overall options could perhaps be better") and the two portal effect seems like its pretty much strictly worse than the one portal ones. Also, this move claims it is "easily Blados' most damaging throw. " of Blados...but it deals 10.5% while his Back Throw deals 12%, Up Throw deals 13% and Down Throw deals 12% if the dynamite goes off. It is literally only more powerful than a Down Throw that doesn't go off. This is probably just an oversight, but come on. The dynamite is good and works well into the grenade's playstyle (tho the animation struck me as kinda cartoonish), Back Throw seems good although I'm not sure how much it starts combos since like the move earlier states he has limited options. Up Throw is mostly good, but I will say the stuff about the impromptu Teleport Rush and its uses felt a bit vague and unclear to me.
Aerials are mostly fine, nothing special but nothing bad and I did enjoy Down Aerial's angling. It really feels like he wishes like he had some kind of poking aerial though, as right now he feels pretty unsafe in general and it would really help out with his shield pressure game. I did also enjoy Forward Aerial and Neutral Aerial, I feel like perhaps Back Aerial should become more of a combo-usable poking tool, even if his FAir would still make this awkward, to perhaps help out with some of these issues to some degree (although this alone wouldn'y solve them overall).
I would say that overall I enjoyed Blados, but this was more for some individual move interactions and a strong core of Specials rather than as strong of a cohesive whole as some of your other sets. The portals and using them with stuff like Jab's movement is fun, the Shield Special offers a rarely seen style of twist on projectile manipulation, and they are integrated smartly with other Specials and projectiles in the set. But when it comes to the overall gameplan he seems lacking, and he additionally has oddities like his standards being so strong and often kind of oversaturating the kill move market (Up Tilt should probably be something aside from a kill move, IMO) and I feel like it could take better advantage of melee tools it has. Enjoyable, but not your best...sadly, I don't have time to read Chalis tonight, but I will say I am pretty interested in it, since another thing I liked about these characters was being a little different (and yet also somewhat close!) to normal fare.
It’s a shame that Smash Daddy has been the most consistent commenter in the thread and posts a moveset that only has one comment on it! Blados handles the interesting concepts of portals in a neat way but innovative way. I appreciate that they can function with only one out at a time, because I assume that the average writer dealing with a portal-focused set would require two portals for the move to do anything. Keeping a limit on the range was smart too, but it does dampen the possible creativity of being able to have them anywhere. A counterpoint to that, conversely, would be that restrictions breed creativity. I’m interested to see what he can do. The only question I have about how they function is what happens when Blados makes two portals face each other and he enters one of them. Does he gain infinite momentum due to the speed boost?
You’ve got plenty of creative moves in the set used in innovative ways and ways to make mechanics relevant in matchups where they normally wouldn’t, such as contriving projectiles from a melee-only character. Unfortunately, these moves can get bogged down by a sometimes-confusing description. I get what you’re trying to say with them for the most part, but when you start going into detail you can sometimes repeat words to the point my train of thought gets muddled and lost and I must reread it. There are a lot of really cool interactions here, especially with the shadow shield and portals, but it’s definitely not a casual read, and a reader must devote their full attention to the moves to grok how they work as a cursory read will yield a headache.
I love how this set manages to have these self-contained toolbox playstyles where each move builds on the others that all ultimately tie back to the shield special. It feels like Blados is constantly adding more and more onto it and building it up for a payoff. At times it even feels like what I thought would be the most interesting aspect of the set (the portals) is put on the backburner for interaction with the shadow shield. On the other hand you utilize his katana and shuriken quite effortlessly, and all of there’s plenty of slicing and dicing for the couple of weeaboos who pick up Blados because they want to go all ninja-samurai.
One of the things I don’t think you touched on was if the gathered projectiles in the shield vanish if they damage the foe, or how they interact with a grabbed foe. If they don’t disappear, then a grab would be absurd as the foe gets barraged over and over again passively by the projectiles then gets thrown after also getting pummeled. If they do disappear, this is a good way to transfer their damage to the foe without blasting them out of your shield, but it limits a player who wants to chuck them at portals or whatever but also wants to be grab-happy.
Those are my brief thoughts on Blados. I enjoyed the set and the myriad interactions you have, Smady. You always manage to make interesting playstyles for obscure characters and get me interested in someone I would have normally written off. I’m reading Chalis next, and I hope her quality is just as well. Also, the reason my commentary is so brief now is not just that I'm trying a more casual approach to commentary rather than detailed critique, but that you and as well Froy are quite competent writers. There are no egregious balance concerns and no details left out. Your playstyle, innovation, and creativity are top notch, and it seems like the only thing you suffer from are writing hiccups. Then again everyone has different reading comprehension so what I may not be able to parse, others can. Great work here Smady, you’ve shown through your moveset and commentary why you’ve been a leader for so long.
You’ve got plenty of creative moves in the set used in innovative ways and ways to make mechanics relevant in matchups where they normally wouldn’t, such as contriving projectiles from a melee-only character. Unfortunately, these moves can get bogged down by a sometimes-confusing description. I get what you’re trying to say with them for the most part, but when you start going into detail you can sometimes repeat words to the point my train of thought gets muddled and lost and I must reread it. There are a lot of really cool interactions here, especially with the shadow shield and portals, but it’s definitely not a casual read, and a reader must devote their full attention to the moves to grok how they work as a cursory read will yield a headache.
I love how this set manages to have these self-contained toolbox playstyles where each move builds on the others that all ultimately tie back to the shield special. It feels like Blados is constantly adding more and more onto it and building it up for a payoff. At times it even feels like what I thought would be the most interesting aspect of the set (the portals) is put on the backburner for interaction with the shadow shield. On the other hand you utilize his katana and shuriken quite effortlessly, and all of there’s plenty of slicing and dicing for the couple of weeaboos who pick up Blados because they want to go all ninja-samurai.
One of the things I don’t think you touched on was if the gathered projectiles in the shield vanish if they damage the foe, or how they interact with a grabbed foe. If they don’t disappear, then a grab would be absurd as the foe gets barraged over and over again passively by the projectiles then gets thrown after also getting pummeled. If they do disappear, this is a good way to transfer their damage to the foe without blasting them out of your shield, but it limits a player who wants to chuck them at portals or whatever but also wants to be grab-happy.
Those are my brief thoughts on Blados. I enjoyed the set and the myriad interactions you have, Smady. You always manage to make interesting playstyles for obscure characters and get me interested in someone I would have normally written off. I’m reading Chalis next, and I hope her quality is just as well. Also, the reason my commentary is so brief now is not just that I'm trying a more casual approach to commentary rather than detailed critique, but that you and as well Froy are quite competent writers. There are no egregious balance concerns and no details left out. Your playstyle, innovation, and creativity are top notch, and it seems like the only thing you suffer from are writing hiccups. Then again everyone has different reading comprehension so what I may not be able to parse, others can. Great work here Smady, you’ve shown through your moveset and commentary why you’ve been a leader for so long.
THIS IS WHAT NINJA GAIDEN FANS WANT
Blados has things in it that I really should like, it has a fun idea for projectile manipulation, and some actually fun portal mechanics that interact with nearly everything in his kit. Unfortunately, something just wasn't hitting the right spot for me. I think the biggest thing holding it back is that the set has very little personality, almost entirely being edge without any substance. It isn't even self aware about the edge outside of one attack, which makes the thing feel, frankly, really boring to do through. Maybe the character just doesn't have enough personality to appeal to me, maybe he just doesn't have enough personality period.
There are Quirks throughout the set that kind of bug me as well, the big one being the layout of the specials, as I've made clear in chat. USpec feels like arbitrary filler when DSpec could have the same functions as it with some tweaking. This means that the second most important special gets put on a dam shield input. There's a few other moves that bug me too, the firecracker throw being the most notably strange and tacky. For some reason USmash felt like a very overwrought move that really did not need as much detail as it did, and NAir's "pinball" effect is far more cartoonish than the rest of the set, making it feel out of place.
The best way to describe the set, IMO, is unnecessarily detailed, but not to the extent that it becomes charming like it does for characters like Kamoshida and Nightmare.
Blados has things in it that I really should like, it has a fun idea for projectile manipulation, and some actually fun portal mechanics that interact with nearly everything in his kit. Unfortunately, something just wasn't hitting the right spot for me. I think the biggest thing holding it back is that the set has very little personality, almost entirely being edge without any substance. It isn't even self aware about the edge outside of one attack, which makes the thing feel, frankly, really boring to do through. Maybe the character just doesn't have enough personality to appeal to me, maybe he just doesn't have enough personality period.
There are Quirks throughout the set that kind of bug me as well, the big one being the layout of the specials, as I've made clear in chat. USpec feels like arbitrary filler when DSpec could have the same functions as it with some tweaking. This means that the second most important special gets put on a dam shield input. There's a few other moves that bug me too, the firecracker throw being the most notably strange and tacky. For some reason USmash felt like a very overwrought move that really did not need as much detail as it did, and NAir's "pinball" effect is far more cartoonish than the rest of the set, making it feel out of place.
The best way to describe the set, IMO, is unnecessarily detailed, but not to the extent that it becomes charming like it does for characters like Kamoshida and Nightmare.
Chalis
Its a shame nobody's read this set thus far, as actually checking it out it definitely is a fun offering. We've done a lot of portal sets before, you in particular seem to be fond of the genre, but best I can tell we haven't seen moving portals in a while, and the set also has an interesting approach to them. Rather than the usual new angles and reuse of projectiles, its more intended to just put the foe at specific points on the stage that make her aggressive game more terrifying, like any location that would make the opponent deluded via the core status effect of the set or at the optimum range for the Side Special claws. You can also just use them for her fairly scary combo game coming from being able to use Up Special twice in the air and the range extensions that Shadow Shield provides. It makes for probably the most aggressive of the portal sets I've seen, being very close to a pure combo/rushdown character but having tons of new options opened up by her spacially varied options.
Its by no means a perfect set though, the Up Special being usable twice and the large variety of ranges Shadow Shield can hit are genuinely kind of terrifying in combination. I'm not terribly familiar with Bayonetta's ladder combos due to not following the Smash 4 competitive scene, but I know they're quite a thing and I'm worried Chalis might be able to do just as much damage. At the very least, it requires her to rely on Shadow Shield to get going which is important when Shadow Shield disables your regular shield for its duration, and given the Up Special is not nearly as ridiculous as Witch Twist I suspect most of the time it will be heavily dependant on good Shadow Shield placement and portal use, in which case a ladder combo kill would probably feel a lot more earned than with the overpowered witch. I'm also not terribly fond of the rock, it strikes me as too powerful and not very well integrated into the set, which probably comes from being introduced so late into the moveset. I'd probably like a second opinion on both of these things as they aren't egregious problems and I could be convinced on them, but between that and Chalis' startlingly low KO percents all over the place I'm wondering if she's generally too powerful despite her obvious weaknesses. All the same, to end on a positive note the previous stuff really is just balance nitpicks on what I think is generally a fun playstyle, and I enjoy the characterization here. Chalis comes across as pretty sadistic and mocking of the opponent, but in a pretty distinctive way from a lot of the villainous characterizations of that style that we get. I can't imagine she's a terribly developed character in Dark Dawn, so job well done on making her come across as rather likeable(in an evil sort of way) throughout the set.
Its a shame nobody's read this set thus far, as actually checking it out it definitely is a fun offering. We've done a lot of portal sets before, you in particular seem to be fond of the genre, but best I can tell we haven't seen moving portals in a while, and the set also has an interesting approach to them. Rather than the usual new angles and reuse of projectiles, its more intended to just put the foe at specific points on the stage that make her aggressive game more terrifying, like any location that would make the opponent deluded via the core status effect of the set or at the optimum range for the Side Special claws. You can also just use them for her fairly scary combo game coming from being able to use Up Special twice in the air and the range extensions that Shadow Shield provides. It makes for probably the most aggressive of the portal sets I've seen, being very close to a pure combo/rushdown character but having tons of new options opened up by her spacially varied options.
Its by no means a perfect set though, the Up Special being usable twice and the large variety of ranges Shadow Shield can hit are genuinely kind of terrifying in combination. I'm not terribly familiar with Bayonetta's ladder combos due to not following the Smash 4 competitive scene, but I know they're quite a thing and I'm worried Chalis might be able to do just as much damage. At the very least, it requires her to rely on Shadow Shield to get going which is important when Shadow Shield disables your regular shield for its duration, and given the Up Special is not nearly as ridiculous as Witch Twist I suspect most of the time it will be heavily dependant on good Shadow Shield placement and portal use, in which case a ladder combo kill would probably feel a lot more earned than with the overpowered witch. I'm also not terribly fond of the rock, it strikes me as too powerful and not very well integrated into the set, which probably comes from being introduced so late into the moveset. I'd probably like a second opinion on both of these things as they aren't egregious problems and I could be convinced on them, but between that and Chalis' startlingly low KO percents all over the place I'm wondering if she's generally too powerful despite her obvious weaknesses. All the same, to end on a positive note the previous stuff really is just balance nitpicks on what I think is generally a fun playstyle, and I enjoy the characterization here. Chalis comes across as pretty sadistic and mocking of the opponent, but in a pretty distinctive way from a lot of the villainous characterizations of that style that we get. I can't imagine she's a terribly developed character in Dark Dawn, so job well done on making her come across as rather likeable(in an evil sort of way) throughout the set.
Chalis by Smash Daddy is not only the closest to a poison set Smady has posted this contest but one that's full of a lot of cool interactions. Interactions on their own in a set by a leader isn't the most standout thing, but Chalis is in a unique spot where her interactions largely revolve around her mobility and sudden approaches and escapes. This makes for a cool style of set where the setup, especially revolving around the Portal, mostly provides Chalis the ability to force the opponent to make and give sudden reads on many of Chalis' attacks. This is a fun advantage that still feels balanced, as foes and Chalis will both have to make reads and if Chalis is careless she can get hit on a bad approach by a fair number of moves and waste the foe's Delusion. I've always wanted to do an Up Special like the Portal, I think the ability to use a lingering teleporting hitbox to affect fighters, minions, and constructs is very fun and has a lot of potential. Chalis has a lot in her kit to play off of it, allowing her to pull it across the stage, angle it, throw projectiles or entire attacks through them to surprise the foe. The set carries a lot of this style of gameplay, including allowing Chalis to leap from mines produced from her Down Smash into Portals and back through them if they're moving.
This leads to one of my big two problems with the set; the flow. While the interactions on Chalis are very enjoyable, a handful of times they start to feel a bit rigid and kind of clash with me as a reader. A good example of this is the Up Smash. The burning heart (hearty pyre is a great pun btw) is an interesting move but the fact that it's a slow moving projectile that just sort of hangs around for a while to work as both an end to a Portal and to extend Delusion's effect makes it feel just sort of dropped into the set without really playing into the mobility in a unique way. The Dark Mines are kind of tacky but it's still fun and fitting for her to pounce on them to Junkrat launch her through her portals, whereas the heart's just sort of there. This also leads into the second problem I have with the set which is Delusion. I mentioned this in the Discord already, but I have a similar problem with Chalis that I had with Toxicroak, and that's the damage from NSpec is very good without requiring her to get in close to actively fight the opponent. It's not as egregious here, as Chalis' set is built around spacing the foe while Toxicroak's is about getting in close, but Chalis also has the ability to refresh and extend it with Firecracker. In general, the damage that Chalis can deal passively with her perfume, combined with her very strong mobility and spacing options, might make her a bit unfun to play against, but as I mentioned earlier the fact that Chalis relies more on reads makes it a bit more balanced. All in all I do enjoy this set quite a bit, even if I think it has some balance and flow issues, and this is definitely within range of a RV at least from me at the moment.
This leads to one of my big two problems with the set; the flow. While the interactions on Chalis are very enjoyable, a handful of times they start to feel a bit rigid and kind of clash with me as a reader. A good example of this is the Up Smash. The burning heart (hearty pyre is a great pun btw) is an interesting move but the fact that it's a slow moving projectile that just sort of hangs around for a while to work as both an end to a Portal and to extend Delusion's effect makes it feel just sort of dropped into the set without really playing into the mobility in a unique way. The Dark Mines are kind of tacky but it's still fun and fitting for her to pounce on them to Junkrat launch her through her portals, whereas the heart's just sort of there. This also leads into the second problem I have with the set which is Delusion. I mentioned this in the Discord already, but I have a similar problem with Chalis that I had with Toxicroak, and that's the damage from NSpec is very good without requiring her to get in close to actively fight the opponent. It's not as egregious here, as Chalis' set is built around spacing the foe while Toxicroak's is about getting in close, but Chalis also has the ability to refresh and extend it with Firecracker. In general, the damage that Chalis can deal passively with her perfume, combined with her very strong mobility and spacing options, might make her a bit unfun to play against, but as I mentioned earlier the fact that Chalis relies more on reads makes it a bit more balanced. All in all I do enjoy this set quite a bit, even if I think it has some balance and flow issues, and this is definitely within range of a RV at least from me at the moment.
I’m glad I didn’t comment Kilton immediately as you were able to add in the full Spring Hammer mechanic and changed that one throw to make the rock into a bone instead. The former was especially a great change as it helps improve the melee to a respectable level, one of the areas I was less sure on in this set when it has very strong specials and throws. You were concerned about adding too many mechanics but this set does such a great job of meshing them together, it comes together perfectly. The important part of making a set juggle various mechanics is making it all intuitive and here it couldn’t be more intuitive, and I like the complexities for the character too. Just feels right that Kilton would have a multifaceted, eclectic playstyle that mixes all sorts of elements together.
The specials are very impressive overall, in particular the minions on neutral B/Monster Mask are great. There’s not only smart conceptual design going on here, Kilton abusing monsters to fight the foe, it’s also very well balanced and characterized. I enjoy that Kilton can only block attacks from one monster at a time, and then he can just lose his mask anyway (this might be a little too frail) so he’s either limiting his monster usage or playing around his own monsters becoming hostile. There are a lot of very neat little details here like the monsters recognizing he’s a fake if they see him without the mask on. It’s shocking how well it’s written and balanced, a massive step up from previous sets you’ve posted.
The other specials are as good as could be expected. The Wario Bike-esque side special fits well into his collector-ish playstyle, of course you need the mixing special to get the most out of his collector aspect in the first place (maybe those buffs could be a little more specific?) and up b is delightfully quirky. You could obviously have made the up special a bigger concept but as is it’s already far better as a move than I would’ve expected after the other exhaustive moves.
The standards are where you delve into Kilton’s melee and after you expanded on his Spring Hammer it’s hard to criticize much here. All I can really say is dash attack is a little underwhelming when it could be a powerful KO move. I will say here specifically, you have a great writing style just describing Kilton’s basic melee. It’s really easy visualizing all these moves. The smashes I was honestly less sold on as they are largely there to give Kilton traditional KO moves and not be a complete bum reliant on minions. Talking to you, I can’t complain about the Dark Link part, and it does add a little variety, I think I’d have just liked them to be a little more Kilton than Dark Link if possible because this character could have some very funny smashes, even if he’s dressed up as Dark Link.
Surprisingly the set has great throws and this is where it’s at its most impressive post-specials. The bone and bone breaking mechanics are really fun and work really well into his overall playstyle, it’s another great mechanic in this set. It’s kind of amazing how you are able to recognize the importance of grabbing the minion and not fall into some traps we did earlier on in MYM’s life getting too obsessed about it, putting the focus where it’s needed. Finally we get to the aerials and because the set wasn’t good enough it has a strong collection of both mop and hammer moves to expand his melee. You could’ve fallen back on just one or the other or been lazy here, but as this is Kilton that was not going to happen. My only real complaint with the melee is it can feel ever so slightly clinical. Kilton could ever lose his balance, overextend himself, and do a generally weird/funny animation. The set is mostly well characterized in a meta/self aware sort of way rather than directly.
One thing I didn’t mention up to now is the rhyming and that was a very fun addition to the set’s already very nice writing style. It has been a while since a set tried this sort of thing, and while in the past it has been annoying in other sets, here it was always fun to read. As said, the writing in this set is very well done and I appreciate the images you’ve done and have/are in the middle of adding for the masks/UI. There are a few minor balance quibbles I have like Kilton’s mask being too frail or the potions being a little too general. Those aren’t even that bad, this set is simply awesome overall and you should feel very proud of it. Please do keep updating it and thinking about whatever you plan next as I am definitely interested to see where you go next.
The specials are very impressive overall, in particular the minions on neutral B/Monster Mask are great. There’s not only smart conceptual design going on here, Kilton abusing monsters to fight the foe, it’s also very well balanced and characterized. I enjoy that Kilton can only block attacks from one monster at a time, and then he can just lose his mask anyway (this might be a little too frail) so he’s either limiting his monster usage or playing around his own monsters becoming hostile. There are a lot of very neat little details here like the monsters recognizing he’s a fake if they see him without the mask on. It’s shocking how well it’s written and balanced, a massive step up from previous sets you’ve posted.
The other specials are as good as could be expected. The Wario Bike-esque side special fits well into his collector-ish playstyle, of course you need the mixing special to get the most out of his collector aspect in the first place (maybe those buffs could be a little more specific?) and up b is delightfully quirky. You could obviously have made the up special a bigger concept but as is it’s already far better as a move than I would’ve expected after the other exhaustive moves.
The standards are where you delve into Kilton’s melee and after you expanded on his Spring Hammer it’s hard to criticize much here. All I can really say is dash attack is a little underwhelming when it could be a powerful KO move. I will say here specifically, you have a great writing style just describing Kilton’s basic melee. It’s really easy visualizing all these moves. The smashes I was honestly less sold on as they are largely there to give Kilton traditional KO moves and not be a complete bum reliant on minions. Talking to you, I can’t complain about the Dark Link part, and it does add a little variety, I think I’d have just liked them to be a little more Kilton than Dark Link if possible because this character could have some very funny smashes, even if he’s dressed up as Dark Link.
Surprisingly the set has great throws and this is where it’s at its most impressive post-specials. The bone and bone breaking mechanics are really fun and work really well into his overall playstyle, it’s another great mechanic in this set. It’s kind of amazing how you are able to recognize the importance of grabbing the minion and not fall into some traps we did earlier on in MYM’s life getting too obsessed about it, putting the focus where it’s needed. Finally we get to the aerials and because the set wasn’t good enough it has a strong collection of both mop and hammer moves to expand his melee. You could’ve fallen back on just one or the other or been lazy here, but as this is Kilton that was not going to happen. My only real complaint with the melee is it can feel ever so slightly clinical. Kilton could ever lose his balance, overextend himself, and do a generally weird/funny animation. The set is mostly well characterized in a meta/self aware sort of way rather than directly.
One thing I didn’t mention up to now is the rhyming and that was a very fun addition to the set’s already very nice writing style. It has been a while since a set tried this sort of thing, and while in the past it has been annoying in other sets, here it was always fun to read. As said, the writing in this set is very well done and I appreciate the images you’ve done and have/are in the middle of adding for the masks/UI. There are a few minor balance quibbles I have like Kilton’s mask being too frail or the potions being a little too general. Those aren’t even that bad, this set is simply awesome overall and you should feel very proud of it. Please do keep updating it and thinking about whatever you plan next as I am definitely interested to see where you go next.
Killton All!
Interesting writing style. Was kindaunsure about how all the song-rhymesd fit together, but it is all pre-move stuff so kinda whatever anyway. Let's get into the meat of the set!
Said meat of the set is the Breath of the Wild minions, both in using them to fight and the ability to turn them into boosting elixirs for Kilton. Both of these are pretty solidfor the most part: Kilton's minion manipulation in most of the set is hitting or killing his minions at the right time, but the minions are more Smash-like in terms of how they work and thus less central so the less absurd take on minion manipulation is fine and the grab game adds some neat combo stuff to it. One thing is I would consider giving he Bokoblins a 3rd attack: I know they are all supposed to have 2 attacks, but them having just a slow slash and the jump attack feels a bit awkward for their intended gameplay purpose. Maybe it could be a "variant" on the current slash: Readies the club but swings near instantly for a faster yet much weaker attack, which in turn it can also use to mix up and potentially deceive the foe by mixing it up with the normal swing.
The elixirs are good, but I have one major issue with it: Sneaky Elixir feels totally useless! Unless I am missing something, it seems to only do anything to monsters without masks, and the actual effect is a complete letdown given the effort of gathering ingredients and then making an elixir. It is basically a dud creation, which also makes the Lizalfos less interesting. I was thinking it would be an invisibility potion or something from the name, dunno how well it would work into Kilton but it would be better than this. Maybe instead it could be an attack boosting potion with a different name? Whatever the case I will say that the Sneaky Elixir feeling like a dud drags the set down a good deal for me.
The Stalhorse I have no idea how well it fits Kilton, since I don't really know much about Kilton, but it is a rather interesting mobility option and seems fun enough. Up Special has the interactions with the cooking pot that I enjoy and is a weird-but-fun take on an Isabelle style Up Special where the thing you're lifted on can be manipulated and the balloons mess with their position. The idea of summoning it on stage as, like, a little monster arena is intriguing.
The melee is solid enough past that. Stuff like the Spring-Loaded Hammer working differently on the minions and opponents provides some natural stuff and the 4-hit mechanic on minions for repositioning is pretty neat. I do wonder if the last hit should have had some effect on the opponent, buuut it is fine the way it is so I wouldn't complain. Down Tilt is a bit of a balance worry but not enough for me to matter, just keeping an eye on such a range-y yet fast move. The lack of vertical reach helps since it means it basically loses to shorthop. Smashes are fine, though I did have to look up the Dark Link set in Breath of the Wild to understand why Kilton could do this, and I don't really have much to say about them.
While it is implied, the hands regenerate for the next grab if they die during it, right? This should probably be explicitly stated, since the alternative of Kilton just losing his grab is very Bad. The actual grab game is rather interesting since it plays with the monsters more directly without actually grabbing them: Using HP on a grab to manipulate as a way to balance out minions attacking the foe isn't something I much remember before, but then you get additional gameplay out of it by giving Kilton some cool effects if he DOES break the hands during specific throws, giving him a plethora of options that nonetheless feel fairly grounded. This is however somewhat dampened by the fact that some of the effects can be a bit same-y, I think it upgrades it into a kill move 3 times but with some of them gives additional effects, so I do give a slightly leery on that.
Down Aerial feels, confusing? It says it is a stall than fall but the way it is described makes it sound more akin to an Ike Down Aerial, so I am not really sure what happened in the move, some clarification would be nice. The aerials otherwise are solid though hardly groundbreaking moves, perfectly servicable in helping continue to give Kilton a solid-if-sometimes-simple gameplan.
Kilton overall was a pleasant surprise, especially compared to a fair amount of your previous works I remember, and makes me interested in what you might do in the future. It is currently held back by the aforementioned issues with the Sneaky Elixir which are rather big to me because it is a pretty central part of the set but I enjoyed it even with that, just it could be higher up for me if it was improved. I hope all your Breath of the Wild sets are this good! I still need to look at Impa.
Interesting writing style. Was kindaunsure about how all the song-rhymesd fit together, but it is all pre-move stuff so kinda whatever anyway. Let's get into the meat of the set!
Said meat of the set is the Breath of the Wild minions, both in using them to fight and the ability to turn them into boosting elixirs for Kilton. Both of these are pretty solidfor the most part: Kilton's minion manipulation in most of the set is hitting or killing his minions at the right time, but the minions are more Smash-like in terms of how they work and thus less central so the less absurd take on minion manipulation is fine and the grab game adds some neat combo stuff to it. One thing is I would consider giving he Bokoblins a 3rd attack: I know they are all supposed to have 2 attacks, but them having just a slow slash and the jump attack feels a bit awkward for their intended gameplay purpose. Maybe it could be a "variant" on the current slash: Readies the club but swings near instantly for a faster yet much weaker attack, which in turn it can also use to mix up and potentially deceive the foe by mixing it up with the normal swing.
The elixirs are good, but I have one major issue with it: Sneaky Elixir feels totally useless! Unless I am missing something, it seems to only do anything to monsters without masks, and the actual effect is a complete letdown given the effort of gathering ingredients and then making an elixir. It is basically a dud creation, which also makes the Lizalfos less interesting. I was thinking it would be an invisibility potion or something from the name, dunno how well it would work into Kilton but it would be better than this. Maybe instead it could be an attack boosting potion with a different name? Whatever the case I will say that the Sneaky Elixir feeling like a dud drags the set down a good deal for me.
The Stalhorse I have no idea how well it fits Kilton, since I don't really know much about Kilton, but it is a rather interesting mobility option and seems fun enough. Up Special has the interactions with the cooking pot that I enjoy and is a weird-but-fun take on an Isabelle style Up Special where the thing you're lifted on can be manipulated and the balloons mess with their position. The idea of summoning it on stage as, like, a little monster arena is intriguing.
The melee is solid enough past that. Stuff like the Spring-Loaded Hammer working differently on the minions and opponents provides some natural stuff and the 4-hit mechanic on minions for repositioning is pretty neat. I do wonder if the last hit should have had some effect on the opponent, buuut it is fine the way it is so I wouldn't complain. Down Tilt is a bit of a balance worry but not enough for me to matter, just keeping an eye on such a range-y yet fast move. The lack of vertical reach helps since it means it basically loses to shorthop. Smashes are fine, though I did have to look up the Dark Link set in Breath of the Wild to understand why Kilton could do this, and I don't really have much to say about them.
While it is implied, the hands regenerate for the next grab if they die during it, right? This should probably be explicitly stated, since the alternative of Kilton just losing his grab is very Bad. The actual grab game is rather interesting since it plays with the monsters more directly without actually grabbing them: Using HP on a grab to manipulate as a way to balance out minions attacking the foe isn't something I much remember before, but then you get additional gameplay out of it by giving Kilton some cool effects if he DOES break the hands during specific throws, giving him a plethora of options that nonetheless feel fairly grounded. This is however somewhat dampened by the fact that some of the effects can be a bit same-y, I think it upgrades it into a kill move 3 times but with some of them gives additional effects, so I do give a slightly leery on that.
Down Aerial feels, confusing? It says it is a stall than fall but the way it is described makes it sound more akin to an Ike Down Aerial, so I am not really sure what happened in the move, some clarification would be nice. The aerials otherwise are solid though hardly groundbreaking moves, perfectly servicable in helping continue to give Kilton a solid-if-sometimes-simple gameplan.
Kilton overall was a pleasant surprise, especially compared to a fair amount of your previous works I remember, and makes me interested in what you might do in the future. It is currently held back by the aforementioned issues with the Sneaky Elixir which are rather big to me because it is a pretty central part of the set but I enjoyed it even with that, just it could be higher up for me if it was improved. I hope all your Breath of the Wild sets are this good! I still need to look at Impa.
Hi once again
bubbyboytoo
this is your third set, and second set for an astronaut. Colobot Astronaut is easily your most ambitious set trying to bring in these mechs that help him and dips a little into deeper playstyle, the two smashes sharing similar animations at first, as well as trying to give a clearer playstyle summary. I’d say this was a success overall and a step above what you did in both Blupi and Jeb. I like again that you manage to create an intriguing character out of these disparate elements, a character who wants to the same as Jeb dominate stage control in a logical playstyle for an astronaut. The aerials give a wacky personality waving his arms around and planting a flag on dtilt for a nice little bit of flavour. He’s not as goofy as Jeb but neither does he take himself fully seriously and that’s good.
As has been the case in your other two sets the specials are the highlight, I especially like the way the mine can be de-activated and the small, important difference between the neutral and side special vehicles. A big criticism I have however of these vehicles and the one in grab/dsmash is you don’t say how big they are exactly. While I can see the vehicles in the images I still can’t tell how big they’d be in Smash and if they’re really huge that’s a key detail to add. I also felt like despite the interesting differences between neutral and side special, these moves are a little redundant when the big change is if it has a powerful hitbox early or later. I felt that the grab was also strangely under-utilized, look at that impressive bit of machinery. Surely it can have some creative throws.
As in your other sets, I do enjoy the specials and when you let yourself get creative in later moves, for example here in the grab and down tilt. There are however then moves such as the side tilt kick and most of the aerials not having a whole ton going on. I’m not asking for paragraphs here, just for every move to have at least the creativity of something like dtilt while adding to the playstyle. I’m also not against the astronaut just punching, and the aerials do give the basic necessary details, I’d simply like a little more beyond that to make the set cohesive.
If I was to nitpick I’m not sure I see how a move like fsmash or dsmash can exist and not be horribly laggy. I know you don’t state they are, but look at them reasonably. He drops a cube, shoots it, the vehicle is created, and then the vehicle begins its charge. We’d consider a Warlock Punch to be a very slow start up, when all this has to happen you’d have to assume it’d take ages to get to the part where the hitbox is finally created. This is pretty advanced for someone who just started but I honestly would’ve kept all the vehicles in the specials, perhaps mapped to one or two inputs to avoid the redundancy of shooting at the cubes each time and having more smashes like usmash plus a traditional melee grab game. Not that the wheeled grabber isn’t fun, it is, but it’s again hard to see how this isn’t very slow if it has to be created out of a cube first. Failing that just skipping the cube part somehow would work too.
In the end I did enjoy the set and I’m glad to see another one from you so soon, I don’t think we’ve ever had two astronaut sets in such a short period of time, let alone from the same person. I can sense you trying to improve your style in this one and I really appreciate that, I think you made a few minor errors in the execution and that’s only natural when you’re taking new risks. I hope to see you again try to reach new heights for your sets.
bubbyboytoo
this is your third set, and second set for an astronaut. Colobot Astronaut is easily your most ambitious set trying to bring in these mechs that help him and dips a little into deeper playstyle, the two smashes sharing similar animations at first, as well as trying to give a clearer playstyle summary. I’d say this was a success overall and a step above what you did in both Blupi and Jeb. I like again that you manage to create an intriguing character out of these disparate elements, a character who wants to the same as Jeb dominate stage control in a logical playstyle for an astronaut. The aerials give a wacky personality waving his arms around and planting a flag on dtilt for a nice little bit of flavour. He’s not as goofy as Jeb but neither does he take himself fully seriously and that’s good.As has been the case in your other two sets the specials are the highlight, I especially like the way the mine can be de-activated and the small, important difference between the neutral and side special vehicles. A big criticism I have however of these vehicles and the one in grab/dsmash is you don’t say how big they are exactly. While I can see the vehicles in the images I still can’t tell how big they’d be in Smash and if they’re really huge that’s a key detail to add. I also felt like despite the interesting differences between neutral and side special, these moves are a little redundant when the big change is if it has a powerful hitbox early or later. I felt that the grab was also strangely under-utilized, look at that impressive bit of machinery. Surely it can have some creative throws.
As in your other sets, I do enjoy the specials and when you let yourself get creative in later moves, for example here in the grab and down tilt. There are however then moves such as the side tilt kick and most of the aerials not having a whole ton going on. I’m not asking for paragraphs here, just for every move to have at least the creativity of something like dtilt while adding to the playstyle. I’m also not against the astronaut just punching, and the aerials do give the basic necessary details, I’d simply like a little more beyond that to make the set cohesive.
If I was to nitpick I’m not sure I see how a move like fsmash or dsmash can exist and not be horribly laggy. I know you don’t state they are, but look at them reasonably. He drops a cube, shoots it, the vehicle is created, and then the vehicle begins its charge. We’d consider a Warlock Punch to be a very slow start up, when all this has to happen you’d have to assume it’d take ages to get to the part where the hitbox is finally created. This is pretty advanced for someone who just started but I honestly would’ve kept all the vehicles in the specials, perhaps mapped to one or two inputs to avoid the redundancy of shooting at the cubes each time and having more smashes like usmash plus a traditional melee grab game. Not that the wheeled grabber isn’t fun, it is, but it’s again hard to see how this isn’t very slow if it has to be created out of a cube first. Failing that just skipping the cube part somehow would work too.
In the end I did enjoy the set and I’m glad to see another one from you so soon, I don’t think we’ve ever had two astronaut sets in such a short period of time, let alone from the same person. I can sense you trying to improve your style in this one and I really appreciate that, I think you made a few minor errors in the execution and that’s only natural when you’re taking new risks. I hope to see you again try to reach new heights for your sets.
Hi Altais, I should get around to reading Revali, it may interest you to hear that a very good Kilton set was posted recently and has Revali rhyming along in the writing style. Who’d have thought? Rex is as always a good read and very easy to understand, you’re one of the most painstaking when it comes to images at this point. I didn’t expect quite so many core moves to be annotated so well. I also do get a strong sense of the kind of playstyle you wanted and the set succeeds at that, a faster, better version of Shulk that has a ton of flash, but also enough rudimentary melee to not get swamped in gimmicks. From a balance point of view, this set is pretty interesting as Kafka pointed out swapping grab speed for a jab and revolving around his Pyra/Mythra charge.
Kafka largely was on point I feel in his comments about the grab game and the specials outside of the first one, so I’ll avoid commenting on that aspect. For me I wasn’t too sure what the overarching purpose was of Pyra and Mythra, and it seems a little under-elaborated how these moves work. Pyra and Mythra take away Rex’s sword as he just stands there waiting for them to finish. It would seem a good idea to establish then that the foe could punish Rex in this down time, or perhaps this could include some extended intangibility? Maybe Rex could have a very limited moveset for this time without his sword, like his grab, similar to Olimar?
I also find it hard to see an overall difference between Pyra and Mythra. I don’t get a sense of their abilities or personalities. For example what the move is based on, Robin’s Thunder tomes are all obviously based on the Thunder tomes and scale in power, for P/M these moves largely don’t have any real consistency or seem like natural evolutions in a line of moves. For example if Pyra focused on the melee side, culminating in her current move, and Mythra specialized in ranged combat leading to hers. It feels muddled now why you’d pick one over the other besides preference, undermining the choice.
What Kafka said about the playstyle rings true too, good and bad. Rex is unique as a short heavyweight who has to rely on his gimmicks to make up for his lacking range, largely the set does a good job picking the right move for the job. I do feel like the dsmash is not fit for the input however given it hits in front and above Rex, not on the other side, it practically would be well suited swapped for fsmash which could have a behind hitbox. That’s small potatoes though. Honestly Rex is a little underpowered given his slow start up and he might be fast, but has poor mobility and recovery too. Ironically I’d say Rex feels more glued down by his own mechanics than Shulk, who can easily swap between Monado Arts on the fly for say a Shield at dire times, or speed to chase a foe. Rex by comparison’s just far slower and feels a little clunky dragging along the Vision, Back Slash and weak recovery.
Overall this set is decent, but it has its flaws. The grab game is definitely the weakest part and I get the sense outside of the main playstyle, which is very unique and well done, you weren’t entirely sure what to do. Still, it’s a very competently made set in most ways and has a lot of good ideas. Great to see another from you Altais, and I’ll be sure to read Revali one of these days.
Kafka largely was on point I feel in his comments about the grab game and the specials outside of the first one, so I’ll avoid commenting on that aspect. For me I wasn’t too sure what the overarching purpose was of Pyra and Mythra, and it seems a little under-elaborated how these moves work. Pyra and Mythra take away Rex’s sword as he just stands there waiting for them to finish. It would seem a good idea to establish then that the foe could punish Rex in this down time, or perhaps this could include some extended intangibility? Maybe Rex could have a very limited moveset for this time without his sword, like his grab, similar to Olimar?
I also find it hard to see an overall difference between Pyra and Mythra. I don’t get a sense of their abilities or personalities. For example what the move is based on, Robin’s Thunder tomes are all obviously based on the Thunder tomes and scale in power, for P/M these moves largely don’t have any real consistency or seem like natural evolutions in a line of moves. For example if Pyra focused on the melee side, culminating in her current move, and Mythra specialized in ranged combat leading to hers. It feels muddled now why you’d pick one over the other besides preference, undermining the choice.
What Kafka said about the playstyle rings true too, good and bad. Rex is unique as a short heavyweight who has to rely on his gimmicks to make up for his lacking range, largely the set does a good job picking the right move for the job. I do feel like the dsmash is not fit for the input however given it hits in front and above Rex, not on the other side, it practically would be well suited swapped for fsmash which could have a behind hitbox. That’s small potatoes though. Honestly Rex is a little underpowered given his slow start up and he might be fast, but has poor mobility and recovery too. Ironically I’d say Rex feels more glued down by his own mechanics than Shulk, who can easily swap between Monado Arts on the fly for say a Shield at dire times, or speed to chase a foe. Rex by comparison’s just far slower and feels a little clunky dragging along the Vision, Back Slash and weak recovery.
Overall this set is decent, but it has its flaws. The grab game is definitely the weakest part and I get the sense outside of the main playstyle, which is very unique and well done, you weren’t entirely sure what to do. Still, it’s a very competently made set in most ways and has a lot of good ideas. Great to see another from you Altais, and I’ll be sure to read Revali one of these days.
Altais
I have a comment for your Rex set!I like Rex's grab having a slow startup unlike most other grabs and instead giving him an excellent jab, it's an interesting trade off and allows Rex's grab to have the best range possible. I wish the throws were a bit more interesting, Anchor Shot was such a cool grab just having him punch seemed kinda meh. I liked how you incorporated the other weapons into the set but I wish the weapons were more varied and more a solid part of his set. I also feel while neutral B is too complex, the other specials aren't interesting enough. This may just be my preference but I would have split all the neutral specials into all of the specials, IE the Level 0 is on NSpec, the S Spec is Level 3, D Spec is level 2, and U Spec is level 4, while Shield Special (An input introduced in Ultimate) would switch Blades. That is, again, probably more of a preference thing so I'd like to hear others thoughts on this set.
Also, I feel as if Rex's speed is a bit high for having moves with average lag that can kill at 100%? I do like him being a short heavyweight but I feel he should be just a bit slower, and maybe worse in the air. As a final thing, I'm not a huge fan of his down B just being Vision. Overall the set has interesting ideas like incorporating the other weapons, Pyra and Mythra not being too attatched to Rex, his cool grab, etc. and with some polish it could be really cool.
Alucard is already your fourth set Kafka and I can’t help but grow an understanding of your style/goals. This set was largely made as spur of the moment to represent the game and character in a respectful way. The character easily could be given a complex moveset, but this is a simple moveset that instead revolves around a choice of a healing or recovery-focused faerie minion, an aggressive poking devil or defensive attack speed buffing sword. For what it’s worth, this still is an accurate enough impression of Alucard and his game, it just falls a little short in the set besides that, though it isn’t anything notably bad.
The set generally does the basic interpretation of Alucard, but it has a few moves I wasn’t sure about. The jab and ftilt being the same move is a bit off for me, MegaMan’s ftilt is the same move but it is done when he’s moving, so this could’ve at least justified a small write-up noting the huge difference in functionality. I wasn’t sure about the up tilt summoning a disjointed spirit, Alucard already has some very slow and awkward moves without the up tilt being a spirit that doesn’t cover his front or back. It’s weird too that Alucard spares the clouds of bats for his fthrow, and a fireball for his bthrow, it’s stranger still this fireball is his best KO throw, returning for bair. It’s odd that while much of the set relies on the Crissaegrim he’d start using flashier magic in his throws and bair of all places. I think a large part of this stems from having to devote all smashes to the Sword Familiar, a fun idea on paper but really Alucard has so many fun potential moves on smash it feels like a waste. He could practically fill two or three smash sections.
I was confused at times about the size and statistics of things like Alucard’s wolf form, the bat, the fireball the bat summons, bair fireball and that utilt spirit aren’t explained in detail. Range in general, even the Crissaegrim, is often left unexplained.
For all my complaints it’s not a bad set and mercifully short as a casual read. I just don’t see a ton of playstyle here. When they’re so simple and effectively lock you in to level them up, it’s hard to see Alucard really deviate much from using Devil early to rack damage, switch to Faerie for healing or Sword for KOing (he really has no reason not to unless he needs to heal and the foe is at KO percent), so it becomes a little bottlenecked. I think either these Familiars needed to branch out more, or to have a few more choices available to emphasize their strengths. The set feels a bit too defensively strong too, while being weak offensively. Played well, he would end up feeling Little Mac-ish, which is good and bad, but I don’t think that’s a great result for a playstyle.
In any case, this set was fun enough to read and I’m always glad to see Castlevania sets posted in Make Your Move. It’d just be wrong if we got none when Simon/Richter was just added to Ultimate. I’m pretty excited for what you’ve been working on lately and this was a nice little project to tide me over, keep up the good work Kafka.
The set generally does the basic interpretation of Alucard, but it has a few moves I wasn’t sure about. The jab and ftilt being the same move is a bit off for me, MegaMan’s ftilt is the same move but it is done when he’s moving, so this could’ve at least justified a small write-up noting the huge difference in functionality. I wasn’t sure about the up tilt summoning a disjointed spirit, Alucard already has some very slow and awkward moves without the up tilt being a spirit that doesn’t cover his front or back. It’s weird too that Alucard spares the clouds of bats for his fthrow, and a fireball for his bthrow, it’s stranger still this fireball is his best KO throw, returning for bair. It’s odd that while much of the set relies on the Crissaegrim he’d start using flashier magic in his throws and bair of all places. I think a large part of this stems from having to devote all smashes to the Sword Familiar, a fun idea on paper but really Alucard has so many fun potential moves on smash it feels like a waste. He could practically fill two or three smash sections.
I was confused at times about the size and statistics of things like Alucard’s wolf form, the bat, the fireball the bat summons, bair fireball and that utilt spirit aren’t explained in detail. Range in general, even the Crissaegrim, is often left unexplained.
For all my complaints it’s not a bad set and mercifully short as a casual read. I just don’t see a ton of playstyle here. When they’re so simple and effectively lock you in to level them up, it’s hard to see Alucard really deviate much from using Devil early to rack damage, switch to Faerie for healing or Sword for KOing (he really has no reason not to unless he needs to heal and the foe is at KO percent), so it becomes a little bottlenecked. I think either these Familiars needed to branch out more, or to have a few more choices available to emphasize their strengths. The set feels a bit too defensively strong too, while being weak offensively. Played well, he would end up feeling Little Mac-ish, which is good and bad, but I don’t think that’s a great result for a playstyle.
In any case, this set was fun enough to read and I’m always glad to see Castlevania sets posted in Make Your Move. It’d just be wrong if we got none when Simon/Richter was just added to Ultimate. I’m pretty excited for what you’ve been working on lately and this was a nice little project to tide me over, keep up the good work Kafka.
Y'know, Simon Spelled Backwards Is "Nomis", Which Seems Pretty Ironic Given How Spammy He Can Be
7/10
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7/10
Alucard does a fairly good job representing the famed dhampyr's SotN appearance, with his stats and animations lovingly ported over for the most part. There's not really a ton to say here, really, because the set is very straightforward and In-Smash barring arguably the Down Special. Not to say that's a bad thing! I could very easily see this Alucard in a canon Smash title. You've done a very nice job making sure the moves are explained well, with one exception: Down Special leaves a lot of questions unanswered regarding how the familiars work. The base is there, but there are some vagueries that make it a bit difficult to sniff out exactly how the balance is here. Thankfully, that's my only real major complaint here. Alucard is otherwise very solid, if simple and very straightforward. Nice work, KafkaKomedy.
Here I am again to comment your fifth set (!!!) this contest Kafka, and this time I feel we’re hitting some new strides in your style. I said at the time that Alucard felt like a stopgap and just a bit of fun before your next big project… little did I know the very next set posted would be something serious from you, I’m very impressed by your work ethic after reading Kris, Susie & Ralsei. It helps that your style is very simple and to the point, and has zero fluff while not missing out on key details such as frame data.
I said in the chat earlier that this set is really impressive in how it portrays a team covering each other’s weaknesses. Kris himself is your typical Olimar/Popo character who can’t accomplish much on his own, but is far from useless by comparison to those two, he’s an effective part of his team. As compared to the leader of lemmings, Olimar, and Popo who is a joke by himself, it’s a nice distinction to have a team where each member plays an important part without being terrible on their own. This is accomplished by having a thoroughly detailed set for Kris alone, then adding on the other moves for Susie and Ralsei.
The way the team mechanics work is simple and well done here. Relying on AI rather than attacking all at once or having to command them individually is the most intuitive way to go about this without getting into complex mechanics and you choose well what moves to give to Susie and Ralsei. My only complaint is that you don’t go into more detail in these moves when the AI will use these moves, other than Susie being commanded by Kris. As Kris hasn’t got access to these moves himself, it’d make sense to detail that. I also think it could be cool to give some way to command the other two when Kris is in lag or by some complicated button combination, just because it would be cool to be able to directly command the other two, but as is it’s so nice and simple I can definitely understand the approach.
The substance of the set is well done too. Kris is your archetypal defensive knight and effective leader of the bunch. You know him well, and that comes across in all the personalities here too. Susie is all out aggression and Ralsei is more of a supportive character. As an aside it’s also nice to see some images of these animations, I especially like the little detail of a HUD icon for the other team members, which is really intuitive when they go over 100%. If anything this could be extended for when they’re over say, 50% too.
My one major complaint with this set is I wasn’t wholly convinced of the playstyle’s substance when all the many potential moves come together from all three characters. The specials lay out a decent basis for defending Ralsei’s healing and commanding Susie, but the moves themselves then aren’t all that impressive for offensive. It’s very useful being able to heal off Ralsei if you can defend him long enough, and debuffing the foe is very useful too, but there’s not a ton of creativity. Something like the FS but in the set is what I have in mind, some way to have them all work together like ICers considering the others are simple AI anyway, it wouldn’t be out of the question to force them to perform a flashy move if Kris commanded them to, that’d probably elevate the set a good deal for me. It’s hard to criticize the fundamentals of the set though, and it’s impressive just how strong its core is for a difficult team concept.
I would say overall this is your best Kafka, and after quite a lot of sets over a short period of time, that’s impressive. The characterisation especially is a massive step up in this set and when I look at your first set, Zoroark, it’s really night and day how much you looked out here for little details on how moves work to make them meld into a good playstyle. I think only you could really do a set like this and be able to pull it off with your style. Hope you continue to make quality sets.
I said in the chat earlier that this set is really impressive in how it portrays a team covering each other’s weaknesses. Kris himself is your typical Olimar/Popo character who can’t accomplish much on his own, but is far from useless by comparison to those two, he’s an effective part of his team. As compared to the leader of lemmings, Olimar, and Popo who is a joke by himself, it’s a nice distinction to have a team where each member plays an important part without being terrible on their own. This is accomplished by having a thoroughly detailed set for Kris alone, then adding on the other moves for Susie and Ralsei.
The way the team mechanics work is simple and well done here. Relying on AI rather than attacking all at once or having to command them individually is the most intuitive way to go about this without getting into complex mechanics and you choose well what moves to give to Susie and Ralsei. My only complaint is that you don’t go into more detail in these moves when the AI will use these moves, other than Susie being commanded by Kris. As Kris hasn’t got access to these moves himself, it’d make sense to detail that. I also think it could be cool to give some way to command the other two when Kris is in lag or by some complicated button combination, just because it would be cool to be able to directly command the other two, but as is it’s so nice and simple I can definitely understand the approach.
The substance of the set is well done too. Kris is your archetypal defensive knight and effective leader of the bunch. You know him well, and that comes across in all the personalities here too. Susie is all out aggression and Ralsei is more of a supportive character. As an aside it’s also nice to see some images of these animations, I especially like the little detail of a HUD icon for the other team members, which is really intuitive when they go over 100%. If anything this could be extended for when they’re over say, 50% too.
My one major complaint with this set is I wasn’t wholly convinced of the playstyle’s substance when all the many potential moves come together from all three characters. The specials lay out a decent basis for defending Ralsei’s healing and commanding Susie, but the moves themselves then aren’t all that impressive for offensive. It’s very useful being able to heal off Ralsei if you can defend him long enough, and debuffing the foe is very useful too, but there’s not a ton of creativity. Something like the FS but in the set is what I have in mind, some way to have them all work together like ICers considering the others are simple AI anyway, it wouldn’t be out of the question to force them to perform a flashy move if Kris commanded them to, that’d probably elevate the set a good deal for me. It’s hard to criticize the fundamentals of the set though, and it’s impressive just how strong its core is for a difficult team concept.
I would say overall this is your best Kafka, and after quite a lot of sets over a short period of time, that’s impressive. The characterisation especially is a massive step up in this set and when I look at your first set, Zoroark, it’s really night and day how much you looked out here for little details on how moves work to make them meld into a good playstyle. I think only you could really do a set like this and be able to pull it off with your style. Hope you continue to make quality sets.
Join The Nintendo Fun Club Today, Mac!
7/10
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7/10
'Tis I, Rouxls Kaard, Duke of Puzzles, here to offer mine revieaux of the wretched worms- I mean, Heroes of Darkness, Kris, Susie, and Ralsei! Immediately, this sete provideth an interesting conceit: another twist upon the time-testedeth Team Set. The Team Set is a puzzle with a most vaste number of solutions, as evidenced by the richeth historie of MYM. The texte doth describe the intricacies of this team fairly well, though I am left with a few queries. Perhaps a little more elaboration on the Knight and Prince's behavior when not under their leader's tyrannical command? 'Twould be much appreciated to know, for example, which attacks they prefer to use under certain circumstances. ACT is a perfectly serviceable Special, though I must warn you that Flatter and Fluster don'tst necessarily cooperate with the character of every possible opponent. Whilst I have no qualms with this, as the effectes are quite clearly magick in nature, this sort of thing will likely draw the ire of other revieauxers. DOUBLE HEAL striketh me as... somewhat poorly? It seemeth to me that it would quickly prove pointless in duels against particularly aggressive foes, as 'tis unlikely that Kris is at healthy percentages if their allies are highly battered. I should also note that the Revive Mint seemeth... difficult to use. Two seconds of lag is quite a long time! Though, given the reward Kris standeth to gaine, I suppose the lag is faire. The remayndere of the set is fairly straightforward and simple to understand; I fear I have little to offer on it other than commendation on your clarity. My only lament is that there is very little detail. Every attack after the Specials suffers from very anemic writing, unfortunately. Perhaps you couldst grant these moves greater clout by abandoning brevity and offering more elaboration upon topics such as their typical uses, how Kris could utilize them in accord with their allies... there is ample enough subject matter to warrant each move being at LEASTE two paragraphs, rather than a mere one. My final complainte lies within the Back Aerial... for whatst purpose doth it break the consistency of shield bashes granting Kris invulnerability? There appeareth to be no rhyme nor reason for this decision, and I felt it rather odd to suddenly break such an establish rouxl in the endgame. 'Tis not enough to sour me on the work as a whole, but it is rather baffling. In conclusion, I deem this set rather good. 'Twould benefite from more elaboration upon its non-Specials, but 'tis solid enough. I hope to see more sets representative of the inhabitants of my world in the future. ...ah, but I would be remiss if I neglected to mention a rather embarrassing failure on my behalf. Upon my original reading, I took great umbrage with Kris' sword throw. The move explaineth that the sword wouldst be inaccessible until reclaimed, and nary a single attack explainedeth what it did with the sword gone! I was quite baffled and upset at this realization, but then I re-read the sword throw. I was... rather embarrassed to discover that Kris cannot actually attack without their sword, thus meaning that the moves had no fringe case to explaine. Obviously, no points have been docked for my own failure at literacy.
Kris, Ralsei, and Susie
This set wasn't really my thing, but I can at least see some of what people like about it. For having three characters out at once, with two controlled by AI, the set does a half decent job of balancing them. Kris is fairly weak on his own, and Ralsei and Susie have limited movepools in an attempt to make three characters not too overwhelming for opponents, while if their AI gets cheesed it is possible to revive them, albeit at a high percent. Having all Kris' damage be shared to the other party members means actually getting Ralsei and Susie out of the way is a fair bit easier than it could be. Kris' use of the shield to nullify attacks comes across as a bit more important when he's also using it to protect Ralsei or Susie from damage, giving those moves a bit more depth than meets the eye.
While its a decent idea for how to balance things, I'm still not a big fan of the approach. I know I'm usually pretty positive towards minion sets, but those usually have to dedicate quite a bit of time to having a bunch of desynced hitboxes out at once and are dealing with stamina bars that are much easier to deplete than it is to KO a character outright. KRS gets two durable and competent allies from the start of the match, and depending on how the AI feels like acting at the moment you can get some absurd amounts of pressure or extremely strong combos going that far exceed what a character is supposed to be able to do by default, and I don't think there's really enough weakness in Kris' own kit nor are Ralsei/Susie incompetent enough to justify him getting them for free at the start of a match. You know how Ice Climbers are basically perfectly fine even though Solo Popo is garbage? I know these three are easier to split up, but you can straight up revive them and desyncing their hitboxes is easier than it is for the Ice Climbers. I could be more convinced on the balance perhaps, if I had a better idea of how Ralsei and Susie's AI worked, but the set mostly just throws the bare minimum it needs to tell you about that.
The other problem is just aside from the shield, I don't really like much about the way the team dynamic actually plays. So many moves are given just one line to explain themselves and no further substance or idea of how they fit into the actual gameplan, and it leaves the set feeling very shallow and underdeveloped. I don't need crazy move interactions between the teammates, but I'd like to know a bit more about the applications of moves than "this is a slash it deals X damage and knockback". Maybe giving some specifics on where certain shield attacks best synergize with covering what Susie or Ralsei are doing at any given time would help, or the kinds of combo opportunities provided by the set's faster attacks in the context of the other two being there. The set as is just is kind of vapid and devoid of substance with how little it gives on the potential applications of certain moves, and while there's certainly room to interpret it favorably, the set often gives so little to these moves you can't even really interpret anything all that interesting out of it even if you go out of your way to do so.
As a final note, I heavily disapprove of how ACT is used in the set. If you want to argue the debuffs are flavored as magic, I get it. But the final boss of the game doesn't allow you to use ACT on him due to him not exactly being phased by the kind of whimsical things Kris is doing, and I'm of the belief the use of the magic animation is just so Toby Fox didn't have to animate more things in this already "big for one man" project. Given that, Ridley and Ganondorf have no reason to be any more affected by ACT than the King, and frankly I could easily see more serious protagonists like the Belmonts or Samus be completely unphased. Its bad characterization to just assume the opponents will respond to this in X way, and would look especially silly were Deltarune's final boss actually put into the game with them. I know this is a "nitpick", but I strongly take issue with messing with the opponent's characterization in a moveset if you can help it.
This set wasn't really my thing, but I can at least see some of what people like about it. For having three characters out at once, with two controlled by AI, the set does a half decent job of balancing them. Kris is fairly weak on his own, and Ralsei and Susie have limited movepools in an attempt to make three characters not too overwhelming for opponents, while if their AI gets cheesed it is possible to revive them, albeit at a high percent. Having all Kris' damage be shared to the other party members means actually getting Ralsei and Susie out of the way is a fair bit easier than it could be. Kris' use of the shield to nullify attacks comes across as a bit more important when he's also using it to protect Ralsei or Susie from damage, giving those moves a bit more depth than meets the eye.
While its a decent idea for how to balance things, I'm still not a big fan of the approach. I know I'm usually pretty positive towards minion sets, but those usually have to dedicate quite a bit of time to having a bunch of desynced hitboxes out at once and are dealing with stamina bars that are much easier to deplete than it is to KO a character outright. KRS gets two durable and competent allies from the start of the match, and depending on how the AI feels like acting at the moment you can get some absurd amounts of pressure or extremely strong combos going that far exceed what a character is supposed to be able to do by default, and I don't think there's really enough weakness in Kris' own kit nor are Ralsei/Susie incompetent enough to justify him getting them for free at the start of a match. You know how Ice Climbers are basically perfectly fine even though Solo Popo is garbage? I know these three are easier to split up, but you can straight up revive them and desyncing their hitboxes is easier than it is for the Ice Climbers. I could be more convinced on the balance perhaps, if I had a better idea of how Ralsei and Susie's AI worked, but the set mostly just throws the bare minimum it needs to tell you about that.
The other problem is just aside from the shield, I don't really like much about the way the team dynamic actually plays. So many moves are given just one line to explain themselves and no further substance or idea of how they fit into the actual gameplan, and it leaves the set feeling very shallow and underdeveloped. I don't need crazy move interactions between the teammates, but I'd like to know a bit more about the applications of moves than "this is a slash it deals X damage and knockback". Maybe giving some specifics on where certain shield attacks best synergize with covering what Susie or Ralsei are doing at any given time would help, or the kinds of combo opportunities provided by the set's faster attacks in the context of the other two being there. The set as is just is kind of vapid and devoid of substance with how little it gives on the potential applications of certain moves, and while there's certainly room to interpret it favorably, the set often gives so little to these moves you can't even really interpret anything all that interesting out of it even if you go out of your way to do so.
As a final note, I heavily disapprove of how ACT is used in the set. If you want to argue the debuffs are flavored as magic, I get it. But the final boss of the game doesn't allow you to use ACT on him due to him not exactly being phased by the kind of whimsical things Kris is doing, and I'm of the belief the use of the magic animation is just so Toby Fox didn't have to animate more things in this already "big for one man" project. Given that, Ridley and Ganondorf have no reason to be any more affected by ACT than the King, and frankly I could easily see more serious protagonists like the Belmonts or Samus be completely unphased. Its bad characterization to just assume the opponents will respond to this in X way, and would look especially silly were Deltarune's final boss actually put into the game with them. I know this is a "nitpick", but I strongly take issue with messing with the opponent's characterization in a moveset if you can help it.
@Rychu I have a comment for you, but take it with a grain of salt since I'm kinda new.
I've never played as this character; I lost interest in OW soon after Ana was released so I have no comment on his adherence to character and the integration of gameplay aspects from OW to Smash. I will be looking at this purely from the standpoint as a standalone character in Smash. And even when I do that, this character seems quite charming! A cute little animal you can see riding a giant Mech is fun, and the few attacks that feature Hammond have some fun personality. However, you don't describe Hammond's size. We know the Mech is as tall and wide as Bowser, but the hamster could be anywhere from Pichu's size to a pixel, this isn't described as far as I could tell and leads into set's major issue, in my eyes.
Wrecking Ball seems like hell to fight. With the highest weight in the game and a damage reduction bonus, you'll need to get him to around 150% with most characters before reliably killing him with even a laggy move. And I doubt you'll be hitting Hammond himself too much, even if he's Pichu's size because A, the Mech is so much bigger and grounded, unlike Hammond, and B, only 4-5 moves are stated to take him out of ball form, even though you mention tons do in the intro. It would not be a big issue to never even use these moves because they are not very powerful compared to his specials, all of which are amazing.
Adaptive Shield is great on everything except heavy zoners, halved damage for 7 full seconds with no drawbacks is way, way too much even if it has a 14 second cooldown. Shield Monado Art only reduces Shulk's damage by 33% and that comes with decreased knockback, jump height, speed, and power. Proximity mine is an amazing stage control tool-- 5 bombs can be placed on screen that last for 20 full seconds, and they allow him to use, in my opinion, his two best specials-- Grappling Hook and Piledriver. This makes Hammond a flying death meteor that can turn on a dime and flies across the stage easily with a constant hitbox that kills. This makes securing a stock with Hammond so easy that he really shouldn't be the hardest character to kill in the game. It doesn't matter if all of his other moves besides smashes and maybe grabs are useless (they are) because Hammond can just roll around wherever he wants, stick in ball, kill you at 90% and not die until 150%, if you can even hit him. And its not like that's hard, its just simple timing.
This set has tons of potential but his specials really need tuning down, and I really think either the Hammond gimmick should be scrapped or his weight reduced. I'd love to see a Zoner heavy, I just joined this MYM so I haven't really yet, but Hammond doesn't seem to really play like that, he seems to be a Bayonetta instead.
I've never played as this character; I lost interest in OW soon after Ana was released so I have no comment on his adherence to character and the integration of gameplay aspects from OW to Smash. I will be looking at this purely from the standpoint as a standalone character in Smash. And even when I do that, this character seems quite charming! A cute little animal you can see riding a giant Mech is fun, and the few attacks that feature Hammond have some fun personality. However, you don't describe Hammond's size. We know the Mech is as tall and wide as Bowser, but the hamster could be anywhere from Pichu's size to a pixel, this isn't described as far as I could tell and leads into set's major issue, in my eyes.
Wrecking Ball seems like hell to fight. With the highest weight in the game and a damage reduction bonus, you'll need to get him to around 150% with most characters before reliably killing him with even a laggy move. And I doubt you'll be hitting Hammond himself too much, even if he's Pichu's size because A, the Mech is so much bigger and grounded, unlike Hammond, and B, only 4-5 moves are stated to take him out of ball form, even though you mention tons do in the intro. It would not be a big issue to never even use these moves because they are not very powerful compared to his specials, all of which are amazing.
Adaptive Shield is great on everything except heavy zoners, halved damage for 7 full seconds with no drawbacks is way, way too much even if it has a 14 second cooldown. Shield Monado Art only reduces Shulk's damage by 33% and that comes with decreased knockback, jump height, speed, and power. Proximity mine is an amazing stage control tool-- 5 bombs can be placed on screen that last for 20 full seconds, and they allow him to use, in my opinion, his two best specials-- Grappling Hook and Piledriver. This makes Hammond a flying death meteor that can turn on a dime and flies across the stage easily with a constant hitbox that kills. This makes securing a stock with Hammond so easy that he really shouldn't be the hardest character to kill in the game. It doesn't matter if all of his other moves besides smashes and maybe grabs are useless (they are) because Hammond can just roll around wherever he wants, stick in ball, kill you at 90% and not die until 150%, if you can even hit him. And its not like that's hard, its just simple timing.
This set has tons of potential but his specials really need tuning down, and I really think either the Hammond gimmick should be scrapped or his weight reduced. I'd love to see a Zoner heavy, I just joined this MYM so I haven't really yet, but Hammond doesn't seem to really play like that, he seems to be a Bayonetta instead.
It’s nice to see you posting a moveset Ryan, and one for one of my favorite characters from Overwatch as well! Hamston may not be a great tank but he certainly is fun to swing around with. Let’s see if that translates into Smash.
The ball mechanic is a fun idea. I like that he has altered stats in this mode, and that stats section with the character icons as reference is always something I thought was a neat way of representing stats. How does one double tap a dash, however? Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t dashes initiated by double-tapping the control stick? I would like it more if he had more than two stats altered by this mode change as well, rather than just traction and ground speed. I would assume, for instance, that Wrecking Ball’s jumps would be affected by his mechanical legs retracting into the ball mech. Other stats that I would naturally assume are affected by ball form: rolls, dodges, get up options, differences between walking and running speed (rather than just one lumped “ground speed”), techs, and shielding.
This moveset could also do with some animation descriptions, especially the previously mentioned jumps. This helps the reader really get a feel for the character and gives the set some boosted personality. Overwatch characters are intentionally bursting with personality. Blizzard designs them in such a way, so they sell more merchandise. The set also lacks taunts and victory poses, and even alternate costumes which is a shame because Blizzard also provides those to you already made. Just include a screenshot of Wrecking Balls skins from Overwatch.
There're no technical problems with the ball form as you have it, and in fact it works just as well as I could imagine switching between the two could in Smash. Both transforming into ball mode and reverting to normal mode happen naturally and are balanced. I would have written it slightly differently, however, as you don’t describe the benefits of the special mechanic to get the reader excited but include the major drawback of extra lag. It’s hard to get excited for having 15 frames of lag on one’s attacks and having better speed but the worst traction in the game isn’t going to improve that disposition. When opening with the most important and exciting part of the moveset, hype it up as much as you can to make the reader excited to read more. This lesson can be learned from Cutesy Beau: really interesting mechanic but worded in such a way that it turns everyone off of being interested in it. That being said, I’m not most people, so I both get what you’re going for and do like it.
The second mechanic of the set is one I also approve of. It’s a mechanic I’m sure has been done before but no sets come to mind. The only one I can think of now that resembles it is Beezwax, and that mechanic operated differently. This mechanic fits Wrecking Ball’s character and playstyle quite nicely and gives more incentive to be excited for ball mode, so I approve. I don’t believe it’s too overpowered. A R.O.B. that has a bigger hitbox and takes 0.9% instead of 1% from hits on most of his body but 1.5% on a spot most aerials hit isn’t game-breaking. In fact, he has even worse matchups against some characters because of this. Can you imagine getting tipped in your soft hamster body by Marth, or perhaps every other Fox laser hit dealing double damage? With that being said, the armor is a nice passive boost that helps maintain his stability and play that tank-style character he was designed to be.
Now I’m moving on to the special attacks. Adaptive Shield is another translation from Overwatch and plays pretty much identically to how it does in his home game, even down to the shield duration and cooldown. The ability to turn it off to conserve cooldown time is a function I assume was inspired by D.VA’s defense matrix. Like the passive armor, this is an ability that Hamston needs to play that anchoring tank role, so I appreciate you making this the neutral special rather than the obvious route of his cannon fire. I’m totally down with the function here, the reduced damage and knockback functioning better up-close makes sense although more than likely if it was the same at any distance one would be using it up-close anyway due to the function the shield serves. Most projectiles, for instance, don’t do much damage or knockback.
One question I have that’s not clearly answered is if the shield’s damage reduction is fixed when he uses the move or if it gains or loses protection as he moves around with the shield active. This is important because it changes how one initiates the move due to the duration of the move and the lag frames at startup. If its fixed when he uses the move, this makes using it directly near the foe paramount and thus makes him vulnerable to punishment with the tradeoff of essentially having a second shield to absorb blows the foe throws out, such as a charged move. On the other hand, if the shield’s protection increases as he moves closer when he uses it far away, this lets Wrecking Ball use the move with relative safety and then have a safe approach to the foe to regain stage control and the neutral game. The drawback with this strategy is that approaching with the shield active means less time for it to actually absorb blows, thus causing longer cooldown times. There’re merits in either direction depending on how you intend for Wrecking Ball to play, so clarify this detail and you’re good on this move. As for the actual balance issues of the duration of the shield and the length of the cooldown, I can’t speak with certainty, but as of now that function of the move is fine with me.
Side special is an interesting inclusion to me, but not a bad one. It acts as a great stage control option, and he can have out three at a time? That’s pretty strong, imagine if Snake could have three C4 out at one time, but they don’t need to be manually detonated and only deal half damage. The enemy can take care of them if they have a projectile, of course, but not every character has one. The mines are also described as proximity mines but only detonate when in direct contact with a foe, rather than just proximity. You would have to dial down the strength of the knockback slightly if you increased their proximity radius, but it would fit the name more (and how they were in Overwatch). There’s no attack speed or lag description on this move, so with the assumption there is none this can become quite powerful. As soon as the enemy defuses one, Hamston can immediately replace it, giving him powerful stage control and the strongest anti-approach game in the roster. I would recommend making them detonate from being taken down with damage for flavor’s sake, rather than having them harmlessly vanish. Minesweeping is an extremely dangerous business, with the explosives being able to set off by a stray bullet at any time.
Without reading any other moves yet, how would I use the mines effectively? The first approach that comes to mind is spacing them apart in a horizontal line to make the ground level of a stage a minefield. This forces the foe to jump over them at least three times. I could also place them in a vertical line to wall off an approach. This is least likely to catch an opponent as they can simply avoid passing through that grid. The middle of these two approaches is perhaps a triangle formation or a diagonal line. I think you intend for something along these lines to be the way to use them. So how creative can we get with them? Placing them on ledges seems broken, as it prevents opponents’ recovery. They hang suspended in the air so you could actually edge guard even further by placing them horizontal to the ledge to prevent recoveries that go over it if the foe is close and below to the stage. This depends on what angle the mines deal knockback at. If its upward this makes edge guarding worse with them but if its below, sideways, or perhaps the opposite direction of the opponent’s approaching momentum then this could be seriously busted as I imagine the explosion spiking an opponent trying to recover. Well what about other placements? Wrecking Ball can place a mine behind him and behind a foe to make fighting claustrophobic or force an aerial game. Placing mines above the foe’s height forces ground fighting or sets the foe up for easy combos by knocking them back down unless they tech. You can predict techs by placing a mine in the direction the foe normally techs and techchase them for easy damage. I can also imagine placing this at a verticle blast zone and getting easy Star KOs. In conclusion, you’ve got a versatile trap that I can imagine can be a nuisance for the foe or just busted, and it’s entirely dependent on numbers. As the only way I can verify for sure the balance is to go into a game with Snake and test it out, I’m leaving it up to the masses to decide if it needs tweaking or not.
Seeing Grappling Hook on the up special made me very excited. This was the move I was looking forward to! And it almost functions exactly as I imagined. Almost, but not quite. First, what I love: using proximity mines as tether points. This is brilliant, a 200 IQ big brain moment to incorporate his wrecking ball momentum on a stage with no platforms. Move interactions like this make both moves better by association. The ability to recover with mines this way is also pure genius. Wrecking Ball is now what is known as a playground moveset, and as it should be. This fits how me and every other quick play bronze in Overwatch plays him. Why shoot the attackers when you can spin around Hanamura’s bell the entire round? The move has no significant balance issues that I can see, but I did have a few questions about the finer details. This is a rather facetious question, but can he be absorbed by Game & Watch’s Oil Panic? He is treated as a projectile during the fireball state, after all. Also, is the tether considered a grab hitbox or a disjointed hitbox? I am aware it can’t grab foes, but I’m wondering issues of priority. Can it even be clashed with an opponent? What happens if the foe is between the ledge and Wrecking Ball’s grappling hook? I assume it passes through them, latches on to the stage, then Wrecking Ball snaps to the ledge and deals some amount of knockback and damage to them. This would definitely come up in edge guarding wars so it is something that would be nice to know.
The way I’m currently interpreting Wrecking Ball’s wrecking ball is that a tap of the stick will send the hamster swinging in that direction at a fixed speed. What I’d love even more is if there was an adjustable momentum gain depending on how the player rotates the control stick, like how it is in Overwatch and like the game Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy. I know, it’s a strange game to correlate Wrecking Ball with, but bear with my logic here. In Getting Over It, the player doesn’t simply move in a direction by tapping a button. They must use the mouse’s movements to generate the momentum needed to move the player character forward. What I’m envisioning here for Wrecking Ball is hanging from a ledge, let’s say a mine placed in the middle of Final Destination in the air. In a state of no movement, Wrecking Ball is hanging from it, still, like a Christmas ornament. The player tilts the control stick left, and Wrecking Ball slowly swings left. Now, if they release the stick, Wrecking Ball would swing back to the right, missing the position he was originally in (at rest). He’d swing back to the left, but not go as far this time, then back right like a pendulum, and after a few swings of no input he’d end up at rest again. Now, say we have this scenario again, but instead of releasing the control stick, Wrecking Ball’s player applies a tilt to the right when Wrecking Ball swings left. Wrecking Ball then moves faster to the right, gaining more speed and momentum and carrying him further in his arc. Swinging back left with the same momentum will make him faster and somewhere in here we get his fireball state. This incredible speed and momentum would take longer to return to his rested state with no control stick input from the player. I just described grappling hook physics in a complicated way but that’s basically the gist of how I’d imagine it functioning if I wrote it. Now, this may just be a miscommunication error, and this is exactly how you intended it to work, but without clarity and detailed communication to the reader there’s not a definite way for them to know this. Describing things briefer is simpler and more elegant but the devil is in the details and the readers interested in the more technical details are often left in the dark and have to infer for themselves or probe for more.
Oh, and I’d love if Wrecking Ball could attach to walls, floors, or ceilings with this move. That would go against the snapping to the ledges which is honestly a much better feature when trying to recover but perhaps there could be an option to manually aim the grappling hook? Realistically you can’t swing in an arc if the tether is attached to a wall or the ground but tethering to the ground and flinging the hamster forward to approach or retreat could be a great option available, especially if he got the fire boost. Tethering to the side of Final Destination and throwing yourself up to possibly jump on to the stage is probably not something that can happen realistically because the opponent could just punish with a fully charged smash attack but could lead to some exciting moments where a greedy opponent gets smacked into the void. I love that he can keep foes sucked in to the hitbox with a windbox to smack-smack them around. The damage and knockback on this move are just right, so good job on that, and the two second cooldown is certainly balanced but seems a little too long for my tastes.
The down special rounds out his Overwatch ability kit translations nicely. Again, this move functions almost identically to how it is in the game, but it just works so naturally that readers unfamiliar with the game or the character would believe you came up with it. Everything about this attack is perfect, even the ground momentum burst that I described in just the last paragraph before reading this. It just now occurred to me that you could put the ability to transform into a ball on the shield special, or perhaps even from the conception you could have given his natural shield the mode switch ability. This does present the problem of forcing mode changes on the player, unless they toggle the option in a character menu. It’s so great how the move flows and interacts with the rest of his specials, you’ve done a really good job so far. I do find it odd that this does so little knockback since it should have the same force as a momentum-carried Wrecking Ball, but I suppose it is necessary to put them within melee range and that this would probably be too frustrating to play against with all of his mines, his high mobility, and his punishing options for foes that get near him. Also, what happens to foes who get caught by his hitbox while he’s in midair? Do they get knocked upwards as well as if they had been on the ground, or do they take a more natural angle to the side, down, or diagonally?
Time to move on to the standard attacks and see if the meat of the set holds up. I predicted the jab would be here after the absence of the cannons from the specials. Just like in Overwatch, it’s pretty weak, at least at a distance. Thank you for including bullet damage dropoff, that’s a detail that I often forget about when reading sets involving firearms (and some of you when writing it). To get further realism we’d include ballistics, but this is a hamster in a death mech we’re talking about here so that’s a non-issue. The ability to move while firing is something I never even thought of but honestly it just makes sense. You say he can fire off about two per second and I’m not sure if that’s too low or not, it seems a little slow to me but then again he has a projectile jab that can keep firing. I think it should be just a smidgeon quicker, like maybe three a second? It’s not overbearing because his jab would stale quicker, but one bullet every twenty frames seems right to me.
The forward tilt is so... boringly named. Come on Ryan, did you run out of name juice? It does an apt job of describing what the move does though, so okay, I guess? I like what you’ve got going here, the idea behind the move is fitting Wrecking Ball and actually fine. Some details bother me. For instance, you say it’s “essentially confirmed to hit” but ignore directional influence and air dodges from the opponent, unless Wrecking Ball’s cannons track foes. The next sentence also contradicts this as you state it can miss smaller targets. Next, I’m wondering what exactly is the ending lag and animation that moving negates, as you don’t describe it other than the fact you can take it away. On a similar note, why does moving while shooting give Wrecking Ball the ability to act sooner than not expending energy, making him unable to act? Moving during this attack is a really neat idea that I like, don’t get me wrong, but it seems sort of contrived for artificial flow, as perhaps an afterthought for needed move interactions. I also do realize that it follows the same logic as moving during the jab, so if that’s the reason you came up with it, then that’s reasonable. The only reason I’m on your *** about this is I like having a consistent logic in mechanics and attacks and this sort of breaks that logic (the idea that attack animations and lag frames that don’t explicitly move the player prevent other actions during their duration). Oh, and one last thing. If the opponent gets bounced from the down special, you wrote that the forward tilt’s shots should hit them. However, would Wrecking Ball realistically have enough time to come out of his impact (which takes 40 recovery frames), swipe with his arm, and then shoot them with the cannon while they’re still in the air?
Something that would be hilarious but go against the direct philosophy of the moveset would be for Hamston to be able to be grabbed or knocked out of his mech during the up tilt. I’m not saying do it, I’m saying it would just be funny. Perhaps a Zero Suit Hammond in the future? I digress. This move is still pretty cute. How is it possible for an Earth hamster to juggle Bowser? Or imagine Ridley getting wombo’d with this move like Hammond’s Kirby or something. Right, of course, rats piloting mechs, Piranha Plant is in Smash, we’ve had movesets for candy bars before, nothing is sacred, character’s strength and physics don’t matter, throw what’s possible or not out the window, etc.
Moving on to the down tilt, you’re right, shooting opponents in the foot can be useful. My teammates miss the head all the time. Also, if you shoot below the belt it’s not classified as attempted murder. This move is functionally perfect. It looks like a tilt, it plays like a tilt, and it feels like something Wrecking Ball would naturally do while following the logic of the jab and forward tilt. The speed of the shots wraps back around to my suggestion on the jab about it being too slow and bumping up to three shots per second. This tilt does three shots in a fraction of that time, so why not the jab? There are balance issues, sure, but one must also consider a continuous logic of moves. If someone sees Hammond’s down tilt shoot that fast, they’ll ask why his jab doesn’t shoot that fast. One can assume Hammond will fire just as fast for his jab as it’s a much more useful application of the cannons than aiming down, right? Eh, I’m ranting again.
Also, where is the dash attack?! Did you forget, or are you just going to use the excuse that the ball mode is his dash attack, huh? Here’s an idea: how about dashing while in a ball form causes Wrecking Ball to fire a tether to the stage to halt his forward momentum and reverse it in the opposite direction? One second he’s rolling forward and then, a twang. His grappling hook sticks into the stage and goes taut, pulling him quickly back while he is engulfed in flames and then detaching to release him in the opposite direction while maintaining his momentum. There, I did the work for you. You’re welcome. (You don’t actually have to use this, this is just an example of creating an input where one could easily use a mechanic as an excuse to get out of it, such as making ground attacks the aerials on a flight-based character or making a universal throw. It also solves the problem of having all that ground momentum but nothing to burn it on because you run out of stage.)
Now for the aerials after standards, because presumably they’re more important than smashes, due to his wrecking ball playground? I appreciate you keeping the bullet drop off logic consistent between the neutral air and the jab. I also like that it can still be used during a shorthop. I was about to write that I would be using this shorthopped to punish aerial approaches and win the neutral game but you’re already thinking along those lines. One of the best mindsets one can have when writing a moveset is that of an actual Smash player, thinking along the lines of how this would naturally be applied in game. The neutral air continues the idea of moving while firing, so I feel kind of bad for chewing you out about it in my forward tilt comment because I see that there’s a consistent logic to Hammond that you employ that breaks the normal rules. This is great, and totally fine! As long as the moveset itself operates under consistent logic you can break new ground while exploring Smash’s rules, especially if that logic makes sense to the character. Hammond’s mech can move and shoot at the same time, so it totally makes sense that he could move during the shooting animations of moves.
Your forward aerial naturally continues the logic we’ve been discussing, and since it's after the neutral aerial it’s fresh in the reader’s mind. Guiding the reader’s train of thought along like this is just an excellent writing technique and really helps build the moveset’s flow. The forward aerial itself is a solid attack and I can see the situations I’d rather be using it while shorthopping rather than the neutral aerial. They also hit in a similar area of effect, so one could reasonably mix-up the neutral game by switching between the two and punish opponents who get above him, which is what you profess you want to happen. Up tilt can also punish footstool-style assaults to help keep the foe in line. These moves are all great because Hamston’s soft, exposed little rat body is the most vulnerable part of him. You’re doing good so far as I’m reading.
Okay, the down air is worded hilariously because you write that Wrecking Ball leans forward and then Hammond does something. Now, I know the two can be used to refer to the same thing, as in the mech plus the hamster, but in this case I for some reason was thinking Hammond referred to the hamster part only, so I imagined Hammond’s furry little feet popping out to swing and kick the foe. Yeah. Then the move trips me up even further with its odd wording of “robotic arms extending outwards” when you refer to them as feet earlier in the move. I think you mean to write “robotic legs” here, just so you know. It’s a good move and I see why Wrecking Ball needs it to set up opponents where he wants them (underneath) and I like that you relate it back to Piledriver but since you didn’t express how Piledriver interacts with opponents in the air I’m skeptical of the combo potential this move should provide.
Turning Point USA is a fun move, in theory. I say in theory because it’s functionally broken for the function you and I both want it to preform, and that is chaining swings together. It has longer starting lag than the rest of his aerials and when combined with the two second cooldown on his up special, I don’t see how one could pull this off as feasibly as we want. With some cooldown/lag tweaking this could be the coolest aerial (and the coolest non-special) attack in the set, so unless I’m horribly misjudging it I’d love if you could make this work!
The last aerial to talk about, up aerial, is pretty much standard in what I expected, but now it’s four shots in quick succession. I assume they fire in a left-right-left-right pattern, or is it more like left-left and right-right at the same time? More detailed attack animations would help in this case, but considering the brevity of it I am just going to assume that you rushed it, which is a shame. I would have talked about the potiential for knocking the foe into mines with this to knock them off the top blast zone, but it probably doesn’t do that much knockback if the bullets follow the same knockback logic. I can see this as sort of an aerial juggle while Hamston repositions himself on the ground after shorthopping. There’s quite an interesting aerial game going on here but there’s not much touched on it.
The smashes are pretty brief so I don’t know how brief my comments will be. First things first: the forward smash is great, but why does it deal more damage and knockback uncharged than Wrecking Ball speeding at the opponent like a bat out of hell? I mean, surely there’s more power in the forward momentum gained from swinging than just shoving forward with a flick of the c-stick, right? Also, why is it twenty frames of extra lag out of ball mode now, rather than fifteen? I mean, you did say “about fifteen” so you’re right, but that tripped me up because I had to go back to the mechanic section to reread that data point. Adaptive shield also increases priority now? Well, sure, one hitbox hitting an opponent’s hurtbox before they hit the other’s is how overriding priority works (I think) but still this was something I think should have been mentioned in the neutral special. Other than all of that, I like what you’ve got here. The move feels natural, just right, even if we have that end lag.
I really like the down smash. It’s super cute just imagining Hammond shooting down into the mech, perhaps even bending down and leaving his fuzzy little tail and legs wiggling in the air as he digs up some faulty mines and tosses them out. Cute, chittering death. The function of the moves is great and fits in to his playstyle of heavy stage control. It’s a kind of move we see all the time in MYM but it feels right at home here, especially with his other mines. You even describe them as sparking to indicate they’re defects. Attention to detail with the little moves like that is something that shines through briefly with your set and others I read that I want to see more of in general, so thank you! The only real problem I see here is chaining c-sticked down smashes together. The first one is laggy but the explosions cover you and the subsequent lag on the spammed move as you move after using it and can pop more out as soon as those detonate. Also, Hammond blowing a load is not something I want to read in a sentence ever again.
Up smash has pretty good utility if you can ever pull the second hit off. I think the juice is definitely worth the squeeze here, since the payoff of planting a mine and a down smash while they’re pitfalled is strong enough to offset what happens usually half the time you’ll use this, and that is the opponent DIs out of the first hit or just dodges then punishes Wrecking Ball with their most powerful move due to those overbearing lag frames. All in all, a decent and balanced move. It does make me think that it along with his forward smash are pretty... tame, I guess, compared to the interesting ideas you present in the rest of his moves. It surprises me because MYM often treats smashes as pseudo-specials. Not that having moves like this is a bad thing, don’t get me wrong. I’d rather have balanced but tame smashes rather than three extra specials. The smashes slot into Wrecking Ball’s playstyle very nicely: a much-needed power smash in the forward smash for KOing foes; a stage control smash that punishes ground approaches in the down smash; and a variable up smash that has the possibility of a great payoff to set up interactions with other moves in his set. Nicely done here.
The end is in sight now, so it’s time to knock out these throws. I’d like to let you know that the grab subverted my expectations pleasantly, that’s really cool! I’ve never seen a tether grab that doesn’t pull the characters into melee range, so I’m trying to come up with the implications this has. Obviously having a long-range grab and long-range throws is a very defensive strategy, rather than the usually aggressive grab games of other characters, especially heavyweights. I’d be interested to know what Warlord thinks of this. This could potentially set up some situations where the foe is in harm’s way and Wrecking Ball is not. Obviously in a free for all this could be the case, but what about traps and stage hazards that would damage Wrecking Ball as well? I mean, this is almost a trap itself, as when you boil it down the Hamston player presses a button and the foe gets locked in place. I know proximity mines don’t damage Wrecking Ball but there is some play to be had there. Not just his special mines, could one use a fully charged down smash then snap the foe in place to make them get hit by it? They could always dodge, sure, but when they come out of dodge frames they’ll have to deal with the explosives.
Anyway, the throws. I really like Adele’s forward throw. The most logical idea to follow up “What can I do with a grab that keeps foes at range?”. It even functions as a throw because it bounces foes up, although I don’t quite know what you mean by “higher angle”. What I’m assuming here is that Wrecking Ball kind of hops up when he snaps to the foe and bops them from like a position like... Sonic’s down special, if you know what I mean here? Hop up then bounce off the foe? Yeah, that’s what I think’s going on here, except the purpose is to position them where they get hit by his non-specials. I like the callback to the adaptive shield, very good job of keeping what’s important in focus and reminding the readers of interactions, because the lack of a playstyle section here means readers will have to forge these in their mind manually, and not everyone has the best reading comprehension and move flow envisioning. Reminding the reader of move interactions may be patronizing to some but I think hand holding should be encouraged, even down to the deepest details. If the reader can’t see it’s there, they’ll often think it’s not there.
Back throw is also a great continuation of the train of thought and a perfect inverse of the forward throw. Oh, this reminds me, in both the forward and backward throw, is the character who is being reeled in (Adele in the forward throw, the foe in the back) a hitbox? If another foe gets hit by the one in motion, do they take any damage or knockback? I know it’s a bit silly to ask, but I can’t reasonably assume that if a character is in the path of another character zipping by as the effect of a move they won’t at least take some light upwards knockback. Good job talking about move interactions here, again. Like I said, it helps guide the reader along and sometimes help clarify parts of the move. For instance, you telling that it confirms into forward tilt helps one note where the foe is positioned by the move.
Up throw is also hilarious, I can just imagine it right now. Well, most of it. I’m struggling with the angles and form of this move a little bit, so bear with me. My first thought is Hammond yanks them in an arc above him, sort of like how a sword user will swing their sword in an arc from one side of them to the other for an up tilt or smash. Then I realized he releases the hook, so now I’m imagining him launching them at a strictly diagonal angle upward? I know this is just a complaint reliant on my reading comprehension, but I still thought I’d point that out. I do find it a little detrimental to Wrecking Ball to put foes above him where he’s most vulnerable. Personally, I’d focus on fighting the foes on the ground and minimizing risk of getting Ganondorf Stomped or any other powerful down aerial. Not that it’s too much of a burden on Wrecking Ball. Move inputs are ultimately up to the player to do, and they can decide whether they want to use up throw and other upward attacks to fight the opponent on that axis or just keep them horizontal. He also needs weaknesses, of course, and this can be seen as one of them.
While I’ve got that on my mind, I’m curious as to whether or not up tilt, up throw, and down throw make the hamster hurtbox larger since he crawls out of his mech to perform these moves. On the throws it doesn’t matter in a duel since there’s no one to hit him during the move but this could come up in an FFA situation. I like the down throw, by the way, as it is perfectly logical to use after the grab and sets up the foe where Hammond likes to have them. Like you wrote, great situational usefulness but no KO power. I’d assume the foe sets off the mines in their path if they’re dragged in like this, as well as in the back throw. Does this interrupt the throw, if this is the case? It would be awesome if they do. All in all, the throws are done pretty well, and I have only minor complaints about them.
As for the final smash, I like that you’re following Smash Ultimate’s final smash trends. Keeping logic consistent with other fighters in Smash, not just MYM, is important. You could have just directly implemented Wrecking Ball’s ultimate from Overwatch and this would have been an awesome final smash that both meets expectations for anyone who has played Overwatch and also fit his playstyle with what is already established in his moveset. As it is now, I really dislike the whole “going to Junkertown” part, especially since you have no Junkertown stage extra. This is not really a problem with you, it’s a problem with the philosophy behind final smashes that Ultimate introduced that I dislike. Other final smashes also do a cinematic stage change and an instant KO, and I admit that I do not like that at all. This is only just personal preference- the move itself is a perfect final smash.
So, now to close with my thoughts on this moveset. You’ve got a great anchoring stage-control playground set that’s implemented smoothly and elegantly. It’s not clunky except in a few spots, it has good flow and an obvious playstyle for anyone who read along. There’s wiggle room in here to play Wrecking Ball in different ways against different characters, and there is also plenty of room for character and stage counterpicks. Wrecking Ball players will obviously want to prioritize picking certain stages over others, and in fact his up special encourages picking stages that aren’t commonly picked and some that are even considered bad. I could see a Wrecking Ball player actually learning these stages and having an upper hand against people who usually shrug them off and thus aren’t acquainted with them as personally. The up special is my favorite move I’ve read this contest because of how excellently it plays with stages and the rest of his kit. Side special was a move that grew on me as I read the set and holds the set together like a bonding agent. I love the reduced FAF on Wrecking Ball’s cannon moves, which would be really interesting to use especially when chaining together attacks and zoning out the foe. There are a few flaws here, certainly, but I pointed out all I could think of and they can simply be fixed in a matter of minutes with edits to numbers and some added detail. Nothing is horribly balanced and everything is communicated well. It’s a smooth reading experience that’s not a headache to work through and can be read in one sitting, so I don’t see a reason not to read this set! Some things I would like to see more to just flesh it out are some extras like taunts, animations, costumes, and maybe even a Junkertown stage. You’ve done a great job translating Hamston from Overwatch to Smash so this would be a breeze for you as you have so much source material to work with. For example, his skins from Overwatch, his voice lines, and his taunts are already provided by Blizzard, just insert a few GIFs. A playstyle section detailing move flow and strategy would be nice as well, but not necessary. Good job Ryan, I’ll be keeping an eye on more activity from you.
Creativity ★★★★★ [The moveset's creative use of the grappling hook, proximity mines, and FAF get this moveset a high rating.]
Originality ★★★★ [There are definitely a lot of unique ideas here, even though some of the core ones have been done before.]
Writing ★★★ [Wrecking Ball's ideas are presented and communicated clearly enough for the reader to grok his intentions most of the time, but there are spots that made me stop due to lack of communication.]
Presentation ★★★ [The moveset is very clean and pleasant to look at. An average score here is actually quite good, but more flair could raise its score higher. Consider adding more images.]
Characterization ★★★ [Again, an average score here isn't a bad thing. There were no out of character parts of the set, but there were also minimal details that expressed the character of Wrecking Ball himself.]
Detail ★★★ [You nail the necessary details, most of the time. Consider what I pointed out was missing that was required for understanding the set and this score will be higher.]
Learning Curve ★★★★ [Wrecking Ball looks to be a low skill floor, high skill ceiling character. This is what we need in a moveset. It doesn't get the highest score due to that a Wrecking Ball player will still have to practice in training for hours mastering stages, zoner matchups, and mine positioning.]
Playstyle ★★★★ [Wrecking Ball's playstyle is great. It fits him well as the concept behind his inception, as a good translation of his Overwatch kit, and how a character like him should play in Smash. Sometimes in the set it does seem like it wants to pull in a different direction, though, so not every move slots perfectly with the rest.]
Balance ★★★★ [Aside from a couple of moves, the set seems perfectly balanced, as all things should be. Some times it feels overbearing but other times I read moves that felt like they should be stronger.]
Extras ★ [There are no extras to speak of, so consider adding some, or at least the ones that are easiest for you to port into his moveset.]
The ball mechanic is a fun idea. I like that he has altered stats in this mode, and that stats section with the character icons as reference is always something I thought was a neat way of representing stats. How does one double tap a dash, however? Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t dashes initiated by double-tapping the control stick? I would like it more if he had more than two stats altered by this mode change as well, rather than just traction and ground speed. I would assume, for instance, that Wrecking Ball’s jumps would be affected by his mechanical legs retracting into the ball mech. Other stats that I would naturally assume are affected by ball form: rolls, dodges, get up options, differences between walking and running speed (rather than just one lumped “ground speed”), techs, and shielding.
This moveset could also do with some animation descriptions, especially the previously mentioned jumps. This helps the reader really get a feel for the character and gives the set some boosted personality. Overwatch characters are intentionally bursting with personality. Blizzard designs them in such a way, so they sell more merchandise. The set also lacks taunts and victory poses, and even alternate costumes which is a shame because Blizzard also provides those to you already made. Just include a screenshot of Wrecking Balls skins from Overwatch.
There're no technical problems with the ball form as you have it, and in fact it works just as well as I could imagine switching between the two could in Smash. Both transforming into ball mode and reverting to normal mode happen naturally and are balanced. I would have written it slightly differently, however, as you don’t describe the benefits of the special mechanic to get the reader excited but include the major drawback of extra lag. It’s hard to get excited for having 15 frames of lag on one’s attacks and having better speed but the worst traction in the game isn’t going to improve that disposition. When opening with the most important and exciting part of the moveset, hype it up as much as you can to make the reader excited to read more. This lesson can be learned from Cutesy Beau: really interesting mechanic but worded in such a way that it turns everyone off of being interested in it. That being said, I’m not most people, so I both get what you’re going for and do like it.
The second mechanic of the set is one I also approve of. It’s a mechanic I’m sure has been done before but no sets come to mind. The only one I can think of now that resembles it is Beezwax, and that mechanic operated differently. This mechanic fits Wrecking Ball’s character and playstyle quite nicely and gives more incentive to be excited for ball mode, so I approve. I don’t believe it’s too overpowered. A R.O.B. that has a bigger hitbox and takes 0.9% instead of 1% from hits on most of his body but 1.5% on a spot most aerials hit isn’t game-breaking. In fact, he has even worse matchups against some characters because of this. Can you imagine getting tipped in your soft hamster body by Marth, or perhaps every other Fox laser hit dealing double damage? With that being said, the armor is a nice passive boost that helps maintain his stability and play that tank-style character he was designed to be.
Now I’m moving on to the special attacks. Adaptive Shield is another translation from Overwatch and plays pretty much identically to how it does in his home game, even down to the shield duration and cooldown. The ability to turn it off to conserve cooldown time is a function I assume was inspired by D.VA’s defense matrix. Like the passive armor, this is an ability that Hamston needs to play that anchoring tank role, so I appreciate you making this the neutral special rather than the obvious route of his cannon fire. I’m totally down with the function here, the reduced damage and knockback functioning better up-close makes sense although more than likely if it was the same at any distance one would be using it up-close anyway due to the function the shield serves. Most projectiles, for instance, don’t do much damage or knockback.
One question I have that’s not clearly answered is if the shield’s damage reduction is fixed when he uses the move or if it gains or loses protection as he moves around with the shield active. This is important because it changes how one initiates the move due to the duration of the move and the lag frames at startup. If its fixed when he uses the move, this makes using it directly near the foe paramount and thus makes him vulnerable to punishment with the tradeoff of essentially having a second shield to absorb blows the foe throws out, such as a charged move. On the other hand, if the shield’s protection increases as he moves closer when he uses it far away, this lets Wrecking Ball use the move with relative safety and then have a safe approach to the foe to regain stage control and the neutral game. The drawback with this strategy is that approaching with the shield active means less time for it to actually absorb blows, thus causing longer cooldown times. There’re merits in either direction depending on how you intend for Wrecking Ball to play, so clarify this detail and you’re good on this move. As for the actual balance issues of the duration of the shield and the length of the cooldown, I can’t speak with certainty, but as of now that function of the move is fine with me.
Side special is an interesting inclusion to me, but not a bad one. It acts as a great stage control option, and he can have out three at a time? That’s pretty strong, imagine if Snake could have three C4 out at one time, but they don’t need to be manually detonated and only deal half damage. The enemy can take care of them if they have a projectile, of course, but not every character has one. The mines are also described as proximity mines but only detonate when in direct contact with a foe, rather than just proximity. You would have to dial down the strength of the knockback slightly if you increased their proximity radius, but it would fit the name more (and how they were in Overwatch). There’s no attack speed or lag description on this move, so with the assumption there is none this can become quite powerful. As soon as the enemy defuses one, Hamston can immediately replace it, giving him powerful stage control and the strongest anti-approach game in the roster. I would recommend making them detonate from being taken down with damage for flavor’s sake, rather than having them harmlessly vanish. Minesweeping is an extremely dangerous business, with the explosives being able to set off by a stray bullet at any time.
Without reading any other moves yet, how would I use the mines effectively? The first approach that comes to mind is spacing them apart in a horizontal line to make the ground level of a stage a minefield. This forces the foe to jump over them at least three times. I could also place them in a vertical line to wall off an approach. This is least likely to catch an opponent as they can simply avoid passing through that grid. The middle of these two approaches is perhaps a triangle formation or a diagonal line. I think you intend for something along these lines to be the way to use them. So how creative can we get with them? Placing them on ledges seems broken, as it prevents opponents’ recovery. They hang suspended in the air so you could actually edge guard even further by placing them horizontal to the ledge to prevent recoveries that go over it if the foe is close and below to the stage. This depends on what angle the mines deal knockback at. If its upward this makes edge guarding worse with them but if its below, sideways, or perhaps the opposite direction of the opponent’s approaching momentum then this could be seriously busted as I imagine the explosion spiking an opponent trying to recover. Well what about other placements? Wrecking Ball can place a mine behind him and behind a foe to make fighting claustrophobic or force an aerial game. Placing mines above the foe’s height forces ground fighting or sets the foe up for easy combos by knocking them back down unless they tech. You can predict techs by placing a mine in the direction the foe normally techs and techchase them for easy damage. I can also imagine placing this at a verticle blast zone and getting easy Star KOs. In conclusion, you’ve got a versatile trap that I can imagine can be a nuisance for the foe or just busted, and it’s entirely dependent on numbers. As the only way I can verify for sure the balance is to go into a game with Snake and test it out, I’m leaving it up to the masses to decide if it needs tweaking or not.
Seeing Grappling Hook on the up special made me very excited. This was the move I was looking forward to! And it almost functions exactly as I imagined. Almost, but not quite. First, what I love: using proximity mines as tether points. This is brilliant, a 200 IQ big brain moment to incorporate his wrecking ball momentum on a stage with no platforms. Move interactions like this make both moves better by association. The ability to recover with mines this way is also pure genius. Wrecking Ball is now what is known as a playground moveset, and as it should be. This fits how me and every other quick play bronze in Overwatch plays him. Why shoot the attackers when you can spin around Hanamura’s bell the entire round? The move has no significant balance issues that I can see, but I did have a few questions about the finer details. This is a rather facetious question, but can he be absorbed by Game & Watch’s Oil Panic? He is treated as a projectile during the fireball state, after all. Also, is the tether considered a grab hitbox or a disjointed hitbox? I am aware it can’t grab foes, but I’m wondering issues of priority. Can it even be clashed with an opponent? What happens if the foe is between the ledge and Wrecking Ball’s grappling hook? I assume it passes through them, latches on to the stage, then Wrecking Ball snaps to the ledge and deals some amount of knockback and damage to them. This would definitely come up in edge guarding wars so it is something that would be nice to know.
The way I’m currently interpreting Wrecking Ball’s wrecking ball is that a tap of the stick will send the hamster swinging in that direction at a fixed speed. What I’d love even more is if there was an adjustable momentum gain depending on how the player rotates the control stick, like how it is in Overwatch and like the game Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy. I know, it’s a strange game to correlate Wrecking Ball with, but bear with my logic here. In Getting Over It, the player doesn’t simply move in a direction by tapping a button. They must use the mouse’s movements to generate the momentum needed to move the player character forward. What I’m envisioning here for Wrecking Ball is hanging from a ledge, let’s say a mine placed in the middle of Final Destination in the air. In a state of no movement, Wrecking Ball is hanging from it, still, like a Christmas ornament. The player tilts the control stick left, and Wrecking Ball slowly swings left. Now, if they release the stick, Wrecking Ball would swing back to the right, missing the position he was originally in (at rest). He’d swing back to the left, but not go as far this time, then back right like a pendulum, and after a few swings of no input he’d end up at rest again. Now, say we have this scenario again, but instead of releasing the control stick, Wrecking Ball’s player applies a tilt to the right when Wrecking Ball swings left. Wrecking Ball then moves faster to the right, gaining more speed and momentum and carrying him further in his arc. Swinging back left with the same momentum will make him faster and somewhere in here we get his fireball state. This incredible speed and momentum would take longer to return to his rested state with no control stick input from the player. I just described grappling hook physics in a complicated way but that’s basically the gist of how I’d imagine it functioning if I wrote it. Now, this may just be a miscommunication error, and this is exactly how you intended it to work, but without clarity and detailed communication to the reader there’s not a definite way for them to know this. Describing things briefer is simpler and more elegant but the devil is in the details and the readers interested in the more technical details are often left in the dark and have to infer for themselves or probe for more.
Oh, and I’d love if Wrecking Ball could attach to walls, floors, or ceilings with this move. That would go against the snapping to the ledges which is honestly a much better feature when trying to recover but perhaps there could be an option to manually aim the grappling hook? Realistically you can’t swing in an arc if the tether is attached to a wall or the ground but tethering to the ground and flinging the hamster forward to approach or retreat could be a great option available, especially if he got the fire boost. Tethering to the side of Final Destination and throwing yourself up to possibly jump on to the stage is probably not something that can happen realistically because the opponent could just punish with a fully charged smash attack but could lead to some exciting moments where a greedy opponent gets smacked into the void. I love that he can keep foes sucked in to the hitbox with a windbox to smack-smack them around. The damage and knockback on this move are just right, so good job on that, and the two second cooldown is certainly balanced but seems a little too long for my tastes.
The down special rounds out his Overwatch ability kit translations nicely. Again, this move functions almost identically to how it is in the game, but it just works so naturally that readers unfamiliar with the game or the character would believe you came up with it. Everything about this attack is perfect, even the ground momentum burst that I described in just the last paragraph before reading this. It just now occurred to me that you could put the ability to transform into a ball on the shield special, or perhaps even from the conception you could have given his natural shield the mode switch ability. This does present the problem of forcing mode changes on the player, unless they toggle the option in a character menu. It’s so great how the move flows and interacts with the rest of his specials, you’ve done a really good job so far. I do find it odd that this does so little knockback since it should have the same force as a momentum-carried Wrecking Ball, but I suppose it is necessary to put them within melee range and that this would probably be too frustrating to play against with all of his mines, his high mobility, and his punishing options for foes that get near him. Also, what happens to foes who get caught by his hitbox while he’s in midair? Do they get knocked upwards as well as if they had been on the ground, or do they take a more natural angle to the side, down, or diagonally?
Time to move on to the standard attacks and see if the meat of the set holds up. I predicted the jab would be here after the absence of the cannons from the specials. Just like in Overwatch, it’s pretty weak, at least at a distance. Thank you for including bullet damage dropoff, that’s a detail that I often forget about when reading sets involving firearms (and some of you when writing it). To get further realism we’d include ballistics, but this is a hamster in a death mech we’re talking about here so that’s a non-issue. The ability to move while firing is something I never even thought of but honestly it just makes sense. You say he can fire off about two per second and I’m not sure if that’s too low or not, it seems a little slow to me but then again he has a projectile jab that can keep firing. I think it should be just a smidgeon quicker, like maybe three a second? It’s not overbearing because his jab would stale quicker, but one bullet every twenty frames seems right to me.
The forward tilt is so... boringly named. Come on Ryan, did you run out of name juice? It does an apt job of describing what the move does though, so okay, I guess? I like what you’ve got going here, the idea behind the move is fitting Wrecking Ball and actually fine. Some details bother me. For instance, you say it’s “essentially confirmed to hit” but ignore directional influence and air dodges from the opponent, unless Wrecking Ball’s cannons track foes. The next sentence also contradicts this as you state it can miss smaller targets. Next, I’m wondering what exactly is the ending lag and animation that moving negates, as you don’t describe it other than the fact you can take it away. On a similar note, why does moving while shooting give Wrecking Ball the ability to act sooner than not expending energy, making him unable to act? Moving during this attack is a really neat idea that I like, don’t get me wrong, but it seems sort of contrived for artificial flow, as perhaps an afterthought for needed move interactions. I also do realize that it follows the same logic as moving during the jab, so if that’s the reason you came up with it, then that’s reasonable. The only reason I’m on your *** about this is I like having a consistent logic in mechanics and attacks and this sort of breaks that logic (the idea that attack animations and lag frames that don’t explicitly move the player prevent other actions during their duration). Oh, and one last thing. If the opponent gets bounced from the down special, you wrote that the forward tilt’s shots should hit them. However, would Wrecking Ball realistically have enough time to come out of his impact (which takes 40 recovery frames), swipe with his arm, and then shoot them with the cannon while they’re still in the air?
Something that would be hilarious but go against the direct philosophy of the moveset would be for Hamston to be able to be grabbed or knocked out of his mech during the up tilt. I’m not saying do it, I’m saying it would just be funny. Perhaps a Zero Suit Hammond in the future? I digress. This move is still pretty cute. How is it possible for an Earth hamster to juggle Bowser? Or imagine Ridley getting wombo’d with this move like Hammond’s Kirby or something. Right, of course, rats piloting mechs, Piranha Plant is in Smash, we’ve had movesets for candy bars before, nothing is sacred, character’s strength and physics don’t matter, throw what’s possible or not out the window, etc.
Moving on to the down tilt, you’re right, shooting opponents in the foot can be useful. My teammates miss the head all the time. Also, if you shoot below the belt it’s not classified as attempted murder. This move is functionally perfect. It looks like a tilt, it plays like a tilt, and it feels like something Wrecking Ball would naturally do while following the logic of the jab and forward tilt. The speed of the shots wraps back around to my suggestion on the jab about it being too slow and bumping up to three shots per second. This tilt does three shots in a fraction of that time, so why not the jab? There are balance issues, sure, but one must also consider a continuous logic of moves. If someone sees Hammond’s down tilt shoot that fast, they’ll ask why his jab doesn’t shoot that fast. One can assume Hammond will fire just as fast for his jab as it’s a much more useful application of the cannons than aiming down, right? Eh, I’m ranting again.
Also, where is the dash attack?! Did you forget, or are you just going to use the excuse that the ball mode is his dash attack, huh? Here’s an idea: how about dashing while in a ball form causes Wrecking Ball to fire a tether to the stage to halt his forward momentum and reverse it in the opposite direction? One second he’s rolling forward and then, a twang. His grappling hook sticks into the stage and goes taut, pulling him quickly back while he is engulfed in flames and then detaching to release him in the opposite direction while maintaining his momentum. There, I did the work for you. You’re welcome. (You don’t actually have to use this, this is just an example of creating an input where one could easily use a mechanic as an excuse to get out of it, such as making ground attacks the aerials on a flight-based character or making a universal throw. It also solves the problem of having all that ground momentum but nothing to burn it on because you run out of stage.)
Now for the aerials after standards, because presumably they’re more important than smashes, due to his wrecking ball playground? I appreciate you keeping the bullet drop off logic consistent between the neutral air and the jab. I also like that it can still be used during a shorthop. I was about to write that I would be using this shorthopped to punish aerial approaches and win the neutral game but you’re already thinking along those lines. One of the best mindsets one can have when writing a moveset is that of an actual Smash player, thinking along the lines of how this would naturally be applied in game. The neutral air continues the idea of moving while firing, so I feel kind of bad for chewing you out about it in my forward tilt comment because I see that there’s a consistent logic to Hammond that you employ that breaks the normal rules. This is great, and totally fine! As long as the moveset itself operates under consistent logic you can break new ground while exploring Smash’s rules, especially if that logic makes sense to the character. Hammond’s mech can move and shoot at the same time, so it totally makes sense that he could move during the shooting animations of moves.
Your forward aerial naturally continues the logic we’ve been discussing, and since it's after the neutral aerial it’s fresh in the reader’s mind. Guiding the reader’s train of thought along like this is just an excellent writing technique and really helps build the moveset’s flow. The forward aerial itself is a solid attack and I can see the situations I’d rather be using it while shorthopping rather than the neutral aerial. They also hit in a similar area of effect, so one could reasonably mix-up the neutral game by switching between the two and punish opponents who get above him, which is what you profess you want to happen. Up tilt can also punish footstool-style assaults to help keep the foe in line. These moves are all great because Hamston’s soft, exposed little rat body is the most vulnerable part of him. You’re doing good so far as I’m reading.
Okay, the down air is worded hilariously because you write that Wrecking Ball leans forward and then Hammond does something. Now, I know the two can be used to refer to the same thing, as in the mech plus the hamster, but in this case I for some reason was thinking Hammond referred to the hamster part only, so I imagined Hammond’s furry little feet popping out to swing and kick the foe. Yeah. Then the move trips me up even further with its odd wording of “robotic arms extending outwards” when you refer to them as feet earlier in the move. I think you mean to write “robotic legs” here, just so you know. It’s a good move and I see why Wrecking Ball needs it to set up opponents where he wants them (underneath) and I like that you relate it back to Piledriver but since you didn’t express how Piledriver interacts with opponents in the air I’m skeptical of the combo potential this move should provide.
Turning Point USA is a fun move, in theory. I say in theory because it’s functionally broken for the function you and I both want it to preform, and that is chaining swings together. It has longer starting lag than the rest of his aerials and when combined with the two second cooldown on his up special, I don’t see how one could pull this off as feasibly as we want. With some cooldown/lag tweaking this could be the coolest aerial (and the coolest non-special) attack in the set, so unless I’m horribly misjudging it I’d love if you could make this work!
The last aerial to talk about, up aerial, is pretty much standard in what I expected, but now it’s four shots in quick succession. I assume they fire in a left-right-left-right pattern, or is it more like left-left and right-right at the same time? More detailed attack animations would help in this case, but considering the brevity of it I am just going to assume that you rushed it, which is a shame. I would have talked about the potiential for knocking the foe into mines with this to knock them off the top blast zone, but it probably doesn’t do that much knockback if the bullets follow the same knockback logic. I can see this as sort of an aerial juggle while Hamston repositions himself on the ground after shorthopping. There’s quite an interesting aerial game going on here but there’s not much touched on it.
The smashes are pretty brief so I don’t know how brief my comments will be. First things first: the forward smash is great, but why does it deal more damage and knockback uncharged than Wrecking Ball speeding at the opponent like a bat out of hell? I mean, surely there’s more power in the forward momentum gained from swinging than just shoving forward with a flick of the c-stick, right? Also, why is it twenty frames of extra lag out of ball mode now, rather than fifteen? I mean, you did say “about fifteen” so you’re right, but that tripped me up because I had to go back to the mechanic section to reread that data point. Adaptive shield also increases priority now? Well, sure, one hitbox hitting an opponent’s hurtbox before they hit the other’s is how overriding priority works (I think) but still this was something I think should have been mentioned in the neutral special. Other than all of that, I like what you’ve got here. The move feels natural, just right, even if we have that end lag.
I really like the down smash. It’s super cute just imagining Hammond shooting down into the mech, perhaps even bending down and leaving his fuzzy little tail and legs wiggling in the air as he digs up some faulty mines and tosses them out. Cute, chittering death. The function of the moves is great and fits in to his playstyle of heavy stage control. It’s a kind of move we see all the time in MYM but it feels right at home here, especially with his other mines. You even describe them as sparking to indicate they’re defects. Attention to detail with the little moves like that is something that shines through briefly with your set and others I read that I want to see more of in general, so thank you! The only real problem I see here is chaining c-sticked down smashes together. The first one is laggy but the explosions cover you and the subsequent lag on the spammed move as you move after using it and can pop more out as soon as those detonate. Also, Hammond blowing a load is not something I want to read in a sentence ever again.
Up smash has pretty good utility if you can ever pull the second hit off. I think the juice is definitely worth the squeeze here, since the payoff of planting a mine and a down smash while they’re pitfalled is strong enough to offset what happens usually half the time you’ll use this, and that is the opponent DIs out of the first hit or just dodges then punishes Wrecking Ball with their most powerful move due to those overbearing lag frames. All in all, a decent and balanced move. It does make me think that it along with his forward smash are pretty... tame, I guess, compared to the interesting ideas you present in the rest of his moves. It surprises me because MYM often treats smashes as pseudo-specials. Not that having moves like this is a bad thing, don’t get me wrong. I’d rather have balanced but tame smashes rather than three extra specials. The smashes slot into Wrecking Ball’s playstyle very nicely: a much-needed power smash in the forward smash for KOing foes; a stage control smash that punishes ground approaches in the down smash; and a variable up smash that has the possibility of a great payoff to set up interactions with other moves in his set. Nicely done here.
The end is in sight now, so it’s time to knock out these throws. I’d like to let you know that the grab subverted my expectations pleasantly, that’s really cool! I’ve never seen a tether grab that doesn’t pull the characters into melee range, so I’m trying to come up with the implications this has. Obviously having a long-range grab and long-range throws is a very defensive strategy, rather than the usually aggressive grab games of other characters, especially heavyweights. I’d be interested to know what Warlord thinks of this. This could potentially set up some situations where the foe is in harm’s way and Wrecking Ball is not. Obviously in a free for all this could be the case, but what about traps and stage hazards that would damage Wrecking Ball as well? I mean, this is almost a trap itself, as when you boil it down the Hamston player presses a button and the foe gets locked in place. I know proximity mines don’t damage Wrecking Ball but there is some play to be had there. Not just his special mines, could one use a fully charged down smash then snap the foe in place to make them get hit by it? They could always dodge, sure, but when they come out of dodge frames they’ll have to deal with the explosives.
Anyway, the throws. I really like Adele’s forward throw. The most logical idea to follow up “What can I do with a grab that keeps foes at range?”. It even functions as a throw because it bounces foes up, although I don’t quite know what you mean by “higher angle”. What I’m assuming here is that Wrecking Ball kind of hops up when he snaps to the foe and bops them from like a position like... Sonic’s down special, if you know what I mean here? Hop up then bounce off the foe? Yeah, that’s what I think’s going on here, except the purpose is to position them where they get hit by his non-specials. I like the callback to the adaptive shield, very good job of keeping what’s important in focus and reminding the readers of interactions, because the lack of a playstyle section here means readers will have to forge these in their mind manually, and not everyone has the best reading comprehension and move flow envisioning. Reminding the reader of move interactions may be patronizing to some but I think hand holding should be encouraged, even down to the deepest details. If the reader can’t see it’s there, they’ll often think it’s not there.
Back throw is also a great continuation of the train of thought and a perfect inverse of the forward throw. Oh, this reminds me, in both the forward and backward throw, is the character who is being reeled in (Adele in the forward throw, the foe in the back) a hitbox? If another foe gets hit by the one in motion, do they take any damage or knockback? I know it’s a bit silly to ask, but I can’t reasonably assume that if a character is in the path of another character zipping by as the effect of a move they won’t at least take some light upwards knockback. Good job talking about move interactions here, again. Like I said, it helps guide the reader along and sometimes help clarify parts of the move. For instance, you telling that it confirms into forward tilt helps one note where the foe is positioned by the move.
Up throw is also hilarious, I can just imagine it right now. Well, most of it. I’m struggling with the angles and form of this move a little bit, so bear with me. My first thought is Hammond yanks them in an arc above him, sort of like how a sword user will swing their sword in an arc from one side of them to the other for an up tilt or smash. Then I realized he releases the hook, so now I’m imagining him launching them at a strictly diagonal angle upward? I know this is just a complaint reliant on my reading comprehension, but I still thought I’d point that out. I do find it a little detrimental to Wrecking Ball to put foes above him where he’s most vulnerable. Personally, I’d focus on fighting the foes on the ground and minimizing risk of getting Ganondorf Stomped or any other powerful down aerial. Not that it’s too much of a burden on Wrecking Ball. Move inputs are ultimately up to the player to do, and they can decide whether they want to use up throw and other upward attacks to fight the opponent on that axis or just keep them horizontal. He also needs weaknesses, of course, and this can be seen as one of them.
While I’ve got that on my mind, I’m curious as to whether or not up tilt, up throw, and down throw make the hamster hurtbox larger since he crawls out of his mech to perform these moves. On the throws it doesn’t matter in a duel since there’s no one to hit him during the move but this could come up in an FFA situation. I like the down throw, by the way, as it is perfectly logical to use after the grab and sets up the foe where Hammond likes to have them. Like you wrote, great situational usefulness but no KO power. I’d assume the foe sets off the mines in their path if they’re dragged in like this, as well as in the back throw. Does this interrupt the throw, if this is the case? It would be awesome if they do. All in all, the throws are done pretty well, and I have only minor complaints about them.
As for the final smash, I like that you’re following Smash Ultimate’s final smash trends. Keeping logic consistent with other fighters in Smash, not just MYM, is important. You could have just directly implemented Wrecking Ball’s ultimate from Overwatch and this would have been an awesome final smash that both meets expectations for anyone who has played Overwatch and also fit his playstyle with what is already established in his moveset. As it is now, I really dislike the whole “going to Junkertown” part, especially since you have no Junkertown stage extra. This is not really a problem with you, it’s a problem with the philosophy behind final smashes that Ultimate introduced that I dislike. Other final smashes also do a cinematic stage change and an instant KO, and I admit that I do not like that at all. This is only just personal preference- the move itself is a perfect final smash.
So, now to close with my thoughts on this moveset. You’ve got a great anchoring stage-control playground set that’s implemented smoothly and elegantly. It’s not clunky except in a few spots, it has good flow and an obvious playstyle for anyone who read along. There’s wiggle room in here to play Wrecking Ball in different ways against different characters, and there is also plenty of room for character and stage counterpicks. Wrecking Ball players will obviously want to prioritize picking certain stages over others, and in fact his up special encourages picking stages that aren’t commonly picked and some that are even considered bad. I could see a Wrecking Ball player actually learning these stages and having an upper hand against people who usually shrug them off and thus aren’t acquainted with them as personally. The up special is my favorite move I’ve read this contest because of how excellently it plays with stages and the rest of his kit. Side special was a move that grew on me as I read the set and holds the set together like a bonding agent. I love the reduced FAF on Wrecking Ball’s cannon moves, which would be really interesting to use especially when chaining together attacks and zoning out the foe. There are a few flaws here, certainly, but I pointed out all I could think of and they can simply be fixed in a matter of minutes with edits to numbers and some added detail. Nothing is horribly balanced and everything is communicated well. It’s a smooth reading experience that’s not a headache to work through and can be read in one sitting, so I don’t see a reason not to read this set! Some things I would like to see more to just flesh it out are some extras like taunts, animations, costumes, and maybe even a Junkertown stage. You’ve done a great job translating Hamston from Overwatch to Smash so this would be a breeze for you as you have so much source material to work with. For example, his skins from Overwatch, his voice lines, and his taunts are already provided by Blizzard, just insert a few GIFs. A playstyle section detailing move flow and strategy would be nice as well, but not necessary. Good job Ryan, I’ll be keeping an eye on more activity from you.
Creativity ★★★★★ [The moveset's creative use of the grappling hook, proximity mines, and FAF get this moveset a high rating.]
Originality ★★★★ [There are definitely a lot of unique ideas here, even though some of the core ones have been done before.]
Writing ★★★ [Wrecking Ball's ideas are presented and communicated clearly enough for the reader to grok his intentions most of the time, but there are spots that made me stop due to lack of communication.]
Presentation ★★★ [The moveset is very clean and pleasant to look at. An average score here is actually quite good, but more flair could raise its score higher. Consider adding more images.]
Characterization ★★★ [Again, an average score here isn't a bad thing. There were no out of character parts of the set, but there were also minimal details that expressed the character of Wrecking Ball himself.]
Detail ★★★ [You nail the necessary details, most of the time. Consider what I pointed out was missing that was required for understanding the set and this score will be higher.]
Learning Curve ★★★★ [Wrecking Ball looks to be a low skill floor, high skill ceiling character. This is what we need in a moveset. It doesn't get the highest score due to that a Wrecking Ball player will still have to practice in training for hours mastering stages, zoner matchups, and mine positioning.]
Playstyle ★★★★ [Wrecking Ball's playstyle is great. It fits him well as the concept behind his inception, as a good translation of his Overwatch kit, and how a character like him should play in Smash. Sometimes in the set it does seem like it wants to pull in a different direction, though, so not every move slots perfectly with the rest.]
Balance ★★★★ [Aside from a couple of moves, the set seems perfectly balanced, as all things should be. Some times it feels overbearing but other times I read moves that felt like they should be stronger.]
Extras ★ [There are no extras to speak of, so consider adding some, or at least the ones that are easiest for you to port into his moveset.]
Wrecking Ball is a set with a lot of cool concepts that unfortunately struggle to meld well together. The main trait of Wrecking Ball is his ability to swap between walking form and ball form, which trades the majority of Wrecking Ball's attacks for much better speed. I think this is workable on its own, but having Hammond only switch on certain attacks can be problematic, and adding a Shield Special would help alleviate and allow him to switch more freely. The Specials themselves are pretty cool and actually do form a really solid playstyle, with Hammond wanting to get in close and fast with his foes despite his size. Grappling Hook is handled well, Adaptive Shield makes him pretty durable, and the Proximity Mine has an essential role with Wrecking Ball's mobility and range control. Piledriver actually makes itself pretty convincing as a Special instead of a DAir, with the set knockback up being very useful for the perceived playstyle up to this point. I like Wrecking Ball pretty well up through the Specials.
Unfortunately, going into the melee oriented portion of the set, Wrecking Ball seems horribly underpowered. Most of his moves in the standards and aerials consist of either relatively weak melee hits or very weak projectile attacks from his machine guns. These aren't entirely useless, since a big part of Hammond's gameplay is getting close to foes and keeping them close, but when all of his attacks outside his Smashes are designed around keeping the foes close it becomes very limited on how Wrecking Ball can handle securing kills. He has his Smashes and his Grappling Hook, but outside of that Hammond relies on dealing damage in small doses. In addtion to the power issue, having Wrecking Ball add 12 frames of starting lag to any move where he's transitioning out of his ball form means he's going to have a difficult time actually following up his main approach with Grappling Hook. All in all, the basis of the set and the concept behind the playstyle is pretty cool, but the actual execution leaves Wrecking Ball very vulnerable with little firepower.
2.5 / 5.0
Unfortunately, going into the melee oriented portion of the set, Wrecking Ball seems horribly underpowered. Most of his moves in the standards and aerials consist of either relatively weak melee hits or very weak projectile attacks from his machine guns. These aren't entirely useless, since a big part of Hammond's gameplay is getting close to foes and keeping them close, but when all of his attacks outside his Smashes are designed around keeping the foes close it becomes very limited on how Wrecking Ball can handle securing kills. He has his Smashes and his Grappling Hook, but outside of that Hammond relies on dealing damage in small doses. In addtion to the power issue, having Wrecking Ball add 12 frames of starting lag to any move where he's transitioning out of his ball form means he's going to have a difficult time actually following up his main approach with Grappling Hook. All in all, the basis of the set and the concept behind the playstyle is pretty cool, but the actual execution leaves Wrecking Ball very vulnerable with little firepower.
2.5 / 5.0
0.5/10
Very solid first page, gets things off to a strong start. Unfortunately, the moveset really derails in page two with the cowardice of bringing in the super crown. Make a moveset for a generic villain that can't even move next time.
Very solid first page, gets things off to a strong start. Unfortunately, the moveset really derails in page two with the cowardice of bringing in the super crown. Make a moveset for a generic villain that can't even move next time.
Sweet Six Shooter (Bill Blastette @ProfessorLexicovermis)
First off, let me just say that this set has some really nice animations, which felt important for this kind of set since it is an OC with really no background or anything as a Super Crown -ette character and all. Getting across personality throughout the set is important to not just make it feel bland and generic due to that and this set does so admirably.
I do enjoy myself a well done ammo bank and Blastette does it pretty well: It is reasonably automatic in terms of reloading and rewards good decision making. Stuff like Up Smash is strong and potentially spammable but you run out of ammo fast doing so as a natural deterrent, which is fairly solid gameplay. The various forms of Bullet Bill are neat although the Sniper Bill could be a bit more cleanly explained. Allow Blastette to use her own body to interact with her fired Bills feels natural and clever and is intergrated reasonably well with moves like Side Special. Speaking of Side Special, I thought it was a really clever move, and allowing Blastette to rocket herself around like that, especially due to the Bill's interactions with her body (Bouncing esp), was pretty fun while being fairly simple. Down Special helped tie the Specials together by giving Blastette a potential way to fire off some various Bills to interact with without needing to do so herself.
One thing about Down Special, it was a bit unclear to me if the ammo is taken one time from when the Blaster is put down or continually drains ammo. I would assume the first, since otherwise it seems rather underpowered (tho perhaps it is a bit strong at low levels like that? But prooobably fine), but it would be nice if the move just spelled it out.
The standards were fairly solid. It was kind of amusing to see a Super Crown of an immobile character having mobility as a major part of it, but given her base is basically like a gun barrel it makes sense, and it creates a rather interesting playstyle since stuff like Down Tilt and Dash Attack is ammo-for-mindgames essentially: Blastette can certainly psyche the opponent out, but if she doesn't get something out of it fast she's gonna be out of resources, an interesting take. Up Tilt as a Command Grab is perhaps somewhat odd, but it didn't turn me off too much (especially since it is rather basic and not Basically A Special Grab) and the interaction with the Bills is simple but effective.
The grab game is easily the weakest part of Blastette, owing largely due to throws which are pretty eh to me. I was really expecting some kind of throw where she could do something akin to a Mewtwo F-Throw or Fox/Falco throws by firing off Bills (even as a mixup rather than comboing out of the throw) or something. It isn't HORRIBLE but little of the actual throws spoke to me here, also Down Throw could probably stand to go into some gameplay applications with the Blaster or something. The pummel mechanic is...interesting, but it does bring some balance worry in. Down Aerial doesn't send the foe down, but could Blastette just walk off the ledge if close and use DAir then Up Special back? Or barely go off, Up Special, grab ledge as opponent plummets? What makes this not too much of a balance issue is the fact that Blastette needs to get off SEVEN pummels for it, meaning it is basically impossible at low damage percents and just turns it into more of a psuedo-kill throw than any kin of cheese. So I didn't dock it too much, but I kept a bit of an eye on it.
The Smashes are all fairly good and serve their functions. Not amazing, perhaps, but I enjoyed them: Up Smash was pretty fun since it serves as a lag reduction technique along with mixing up how Blastette can fire off her Bills. Forward Smash also has one of the better uses of "foe as ammo" in the set. On that note, why would you ever bury the opponent with Down Tilt while they're ammo'd in you when Up tilt does so anyway w/ ammo? Down Aerial and Forward Aerial stand out in the air, I wonder if you could let Blastette move somewhat left/right during Down Aerial with ammo as well, with the other aerials being okay but not as impressive. Also, I would make it so NAir can only refresh on a Bill once per that air trip per Bill or something since otherwise I am worried of goofiness with the Bouncing Bill, especially since Blastette can reposition. Up Aerial is reasonably solid as a juggler and a fine move, Back Aerial is meh.
Overall, Blastette has a fairly fun playstyle based around movement, a variety of projectiles and nice ammo bank usage. A weak grab game limits the set some, and there's some general balance concerns, some unclear wording here and there. What I do like is still enough for me to give it a nice stamp of approval, though!
First off, let me just say that this set has some really nice animations, which felt important for this kind of set since it is an OC with really no background or anything as a Super Crown -ette character and all. Getting across personality throughout the set is important to not just make it feel bland and generic due to that and this set does so admirably.
I do enjoy myself a well done ammo bank and Blastette does it pretty well: It is reasonably automatic in terms of reloading and rewards good decision making. Stuff like Up Smash is strong and potentially spammable but you run out of ammo fast doing so as a natural deterrent, which is fairly solid gameplay. The various forms of Bullet Bill are neat although the Sniper Bill could be a bit more cleanly explained. Allow Blastette to use her own body to interact with her fired Bills feels natural and clever and is intergrated reasonably well with moves like Side Special. Speaking of Side Special, I thought it was a really clever move, and allowing Blastette to rocket herself around like that, especially due to the Bill's interactions with her body (Bouncing esp), was pretty fun while being fairly simple. Down Special helped tie the Specials together by giving Blastette a potential way to fire off some various Bills to interact with without needing to do so herself.
One thing about Down Special, it was a bit unclear to me if the ammo is taken one time from when the Blaster is put down or continually drains ammo. I would assume the first, since otherwise it seems rather underpowered (tho perhaps it is a bit strong at low levels like that? But prooobably fine), but it would be nice if the move just spelled it out.
The standards were fairly solid. It was kind of amusing to see a Super Crown of an immobile character having mobility as a major part of it, but given her base is basically like a gun barrel it makes sense, and it creates a rather interesting playstyle since stuff like Down Tilt and Dash Attack is ammo-for-mindgames essentially: Blastette can certainly psyche the opponent out, but if she doesn't get something out of it fast she's gonna be out of resources, an interesting take. Up Tilt as a Command Grab is perhaps somewhat odd, but it didn't turn me off too much (especially since it is rather basic and not Basically A Special Grab) and the interaction with the Bills is simple but effective.
The grab game is easily the weakest part of Blastette, owing largely due to throws which are pretty eh to me. I was really expecting some kind of throw where she could do something akin to a Mewtwo F-Throw or Fox/Falco throws by firing off Bills (even as a mixup rather than comboing out of the throw) or something. It isn't HORRIBLE but little of the actual throws spoke to me here, also Down Throw could probably stand to go into some gameplay applications with the Blaster or something. The pummel mechanic is...interesting, but it does bring some balance worry in. Down Aerial doesn't send the foe down, but could Blastette just walk off the ledge if close and use DAir then Up Special back? Or barely go off, Up Special, grab ledge as opponent plummets? What makes this not too much of a balance issue is the fact that Blastette needs to get off SEVEN pummels for it, meaning it is basically impossible at low damage percents and just turns it into more of a psuedo-kill throw than any kin of cheese. So I didn't dock it too much, but I kept a bit of an eye on it.
The Smashes are all fairly good and serve their functions. Not amazing, perhaps, but I enjoyed them: Up Smash was pretty fun since it serves as a lag reduction technique along with mixing up how Blastette can fire off her Bills. Forward Smash also has one of the better uses of "foe as ammo" in the set. On that note, why would you ever bury the opponent with Down Tilt while they're ammo'd in you when Up tilt does so anyway w/ ammo? Down Aerial and Forward Aerial stand out in the air, I wonder if you could let Blastette move somewhat left/right during Down Aerial with ammo as well, with the other aerials being okay but not as impressive. Also, I would make it so NAir can only refresh on a Bill once per that air trip per Bill or something since otherwise I am worried of goofiness with the Bouncing Bill, especially since Blastette can reposition. Up Aerial is reasonably solid as a juggler and a fine move, Back Aerial is meh.
Overall, Blastette has a fairly fun playstyle based around movement, a variety of projectiles and nice ammo bank usage. A weak grab game limits the set some, and there's some general balance concerns, some unclear wording here and there. What I do like is still enough for me to give it a nice stamp of approval, though!
Della Duck: Lets It Go (Idella The Frost Witch by UserShadow7989)
In a lot of ways, Idella is comparable to Eleanor, both being staff-wielding mages that exchange mobility and traditional fighting power with the status effect of their choosing.
The main flaw of the set imo, stems from where the comparison between the two stops. Whereas Eleonora has the Swarm as a stellar written minion, with several layers of control and synergy with most relevant moves, the Golem is a less big part of Idella's gameplan.
In exchange, while Ellie's moves sometimes felt too much, all of Idella's moves synergize exactly right with the rest of her kit.
The frosting state is a great mechanic on its own, and is properly balanced and stuff
In order to get a possible Super Vote, I can't tell you what to do. Somehow, you got it exactly right with the Swarm and if the Golem can prove to be a similar X-Factor, that unique spark and synergy that made my mind explode in just two moves with Ellie, you're golden with Idella Menzel.
In a lot of ways, Idella is comparable to Eleanor, both being staff-wielding mages that exchange mobility and traditional fighting power with the status effect of their choosing.
The main flaw of the set imo, stems from where the comparison between the two stops. Whereas Eleonora has the Swarm as a stellar written minion, with several layers of control and synergy with most relevant moves, the Golem is a less big part of Idella's gameplan.
In exchange, while Ellie's moves sometimes felt too much, all of Idella's moves synergize exactly right with the rest of her kit.
The frosting state is a great mechanic on its own, and is properly balanced and stuff
In order to get a possible Super Vote, I can't tell you what to do. Somehow, you got it exactly right with the Swarm and if the Golem can prove to be a similar X-Factor, that unique spark and synergy that made my mind explode in just two moves with Ellie, you're golden with Idella Menzel.
The first moveset we’re presented with in FrozenRoy’s Organization XIII project is Xaldin, who is the Organization’s #3. Interesting. I’m only going to assume that Xaldin and Lexaeus were completed first due to you having a stronger wealth of ideas for them, Froy. We’ll see. Oh, and seeing as the Organization has been done before, I’m not going to look up the movesets and compare your own with those. It would be unfair.
First, I like how you made Xaldin better on the air than on the ground. It fits so well with his element and his theme. Having a practical spike available to an aerial character is wonderful too, and it makes so much sense considering Xaldin’s weapons. I do fear that it may be too strong. You claim that it can’t KO especially early but recovering from even moderately powerful spikes is usually impossible above extremely low percents. The rest of the down special is brilliant; from placing lances as super disjointed hitboxes (I will not call them traps) to utilizing them through shield special, I can see why you wrote Xaldin first.
I notice that your writing style is quite detailed and thorough, but you often have a few oddly-worded sentences that get across to the reader what you’re trying to say but can cause the reader to stumble and look over them again. This is usually associated with the number of commas present in a sentence, so try to not liberally use them when you can.
Dragoon Reign is a wonderful move that ties into his themes very nicely. It scales up with Lindworm spread out and gives him serious aerial mobility and strength which further ties into his playstyle. Well done. Your attacks traditionally feel like multiple moves in one disguised as a single attack, which is one of the things I love about your sets, Froy. You never fail to squeeze the most out of an attack and you always integrate these interactions that make each move more like a tree from which branches extend.
Where’s the windbox on the side special? Oh, you’re going to tell me it’s just a normal projectile hitbox? Tsk, tsk. Well, at least you have a windbox on the neutral special. That neutral is sweet too, even if you lay it on thick in the second part of the attack. It’s something I had to type out to fully grok as the technique of layered branching attacks I praised you for often overwhelms the reader at first but is easily understandable when explained in a simple way. Turning the wind shield into an offensive and mobility option is very cool, especially the smashes in the air option. I don’t see how he’s supposed to be a defensive character, though, with all these powerful neutral control options. He seems like he could apply a lot of pressure.
Moves that change in power depending on how many lances Xaldin has on his person is a brilliant idea, really. There are two perspectives to look at them from: they give the player all the options they want and let them choose how they want to play Xaldin; or they pull the moveset’s strengths in different directions and Xaldin can’t decide if which direction he wants to go in, limiting the potential strength he could have if he only focused on either spacing the lances out or keeping them together. Obviously the first perspective is what most of MYM strives for and is generally a good thing, but I do fear that the second perspective could harm the moveset’s impression on a reader.
Thank you for working in combos with other moves directly into the attack description, especially going as far as to note which percentages they combo into. That and all the other details you include on your moves inform the reader that you have thought out the playstyle, how the moves interact, and the properties of moves. This is great attention to detail as always and it helps the reader understand how each move fits in to the cohesive whole and I can tell you have confidence and took time with these moves.
I can tell you’ll do well with all the Organization members because you have plenty of attacks that use the member’s weapon and just as many that use the Nobody’s element. It’s a smooth implementation of the character’s abilities that makes sense. You also use attacks taken directly from the boss fight, but they’re written just like the original attacks, meaning I could not know anything about the boss fight and believe you had created them entirely on your own. The moves don’t just utilize the weapon and element, they feel like the weapon and element. What I mean by that is Xaldin fights like a gale of wind: surrounding the foe, beating them down, blowing them (and himself) across the stage, battering at their defenses, and pushing back against any attacks they throw at him. The only thing missing are more windboxes... since he controls wind and all. He also fights like a lance: piercing the foe, raining down on them from above, striking them with myriad hits, poking at them, and dealing more damage when the foe is not near but not too far away.
Your presentation is simple but effective. I adore the lances in the headers as those are a nice touch, and your color scheme is very muted but pleasing. All the images are a very nice touch, especially with the attacks that are inspired by his in-game appearance. The extras benefit from this too, and speaking of those thank you for including them! Your attention to them are quite refreshing to read and an excellent way to end the moveset after reading such a heavy playstyle section. Bonus points here for the win animation against The Beast or Belle. Flavor text like that really shows how much you cared about the set while writing it and it may seem insignificant but to fans of the series, it makes so much more of a difference. Other movesets could do this too, even when it’s not relevant (such as the interactions in question don’t have a moveset to pin them to).
In conclusion, Xaldin was a wonderful read and my favorite I’ve read yet this contest. I hope nobody shrugs this set off due to character bias or indifference because it’s quite a treat. You have an eye for detail and playstyle, and it does really show your skills not only as a writer, but as a designer also. You don’t leave anything out: thorough information on indivdual attacks, a vision of how they work with the whole, a hefty playstyle section that guides the reader and ties the moveset together, and an understanding of character that sandwiches the set through the introduction and the extras. Awesome job here, Froy.
First, I like how you made Xaldin better on the air than on the ground. It fits so well with his element and his theme. Having a practical spike available to an aerial character is wonderful too, and it makes so much sense considering Xaldin’s weapons. I do fear that it may be too strong. You claim that it can’t KO especially early but recovering from even moderately powerful spikes is usually impossible above extremely low percents. The rest of the down special is brilliant; from placing lances as super disjointed hitboxes (I will not call them traps) to utilizing them through shield special, I can see why you wrote Xaldin first.
I notice that your writing style is quite detailed and thorough, but you often have a few oddly-worded sentences that get across to the reader what you’re trying to say but can cause the reader to stumble and look over them again. This is usually associated with the number of commas present in a sentence, so try to not liberally use them when you can.
Dragoon Reign is a wonderful move that ties into his themes very nicely. It scales up with Lindworm spread out and gives him serious aerial mobility and strength which further ties into his playstyle. Well done. Your attacks traditionally feel like multiple moves in one disguised as a single attack, which is one of the things I love about your sets, Froy. You never fail to squeeze the most out of an attack and you always integrate these interactions that make each move more like a tree from which branches extend.
Where’s the windbox on the side special? Oh, you’re going to tell me it’s just a normal projectile hitbox? Tsk, tsk. Well, at least you have a windbox on the neutral special. That neutral is sweet too, even if you lay it on thick in the second part of the attack. It’s something I had to type out to fully grok as the technique of layered branching attacks I praised you for often overwhelms the reader at first but is easily understandable when explained in a simple way. Turning the wind shield into an offensive and mobility option is very cool, especially the smashes in the air option. I don’t see how he’s supposed to be a defensive character, though, with all these powerful neutral control options. He seems like he could apply a lot of pressure.
Moves that change in power depending on how many lances Xaldin has on his person is a brilliant idea, really. There are two perspectives to look at them from: they give the player all the options they want and let them choose how they want to play Xaldin; or they pull the moveset’s strengths in different directions and Xaldin can’t decide if which direction he wants to go in, limiting the potential strength he could have if he only focused on either spacing the lances out or keeping them together. Obviously the first perspective is what most of MYM strives for and is generally a good thing, but I do fear that the second perspective could harm the moveset’s impression on a reader.
Thank you for working in combos with other moves directly into the attack description, especially going as far as to note which percentages they combo into. That and all the other details you include on your moves inform the reader that you have thought out the playstyle, how the moves interact, and the properties of moves. This is great attention to detail as always and it helps the reader understand how each move fits in to the cohesive whole and I can tell you have confidence and took time with these moves.
I can tell you’ll do well with all the Organization members because you have plenty of attacks that use the member’s weapon and just as many that use the Nobody’s element. It’s a smooth implementation of the character’s abilities that makes sense. You also use attacks taken directly from the boss fight, but they’re written just like the original attacks, meaning I could not know anything about the boss fight and believe you had created them entirely on your own. The moves don’t just utilize the weapon and element, they feel like the weapon and element. What I mean by that is Xaldin fights like a gale of wind: surrounding the foe, beating them down, blowing them (and himself) across the stage, battering at their defenses, and pushing back against any attacks they throw at him. The only thing missing are more windboxes... since he controls wind and all. He also fights like a lance: piercing the foe, raining down on them from above, striking them with myriad hits, poking at them, and dealing more damage when the foe is not near but not too far away.
Your presentation is simple but effective. I adore the lances in the headers as those are a nice touch, and your color scheme is very muted but pleasing. All the images are a very nice touch, especially with the attacks that are inspired by his in-game appearance. The extras benefit from this too, and speaking of those thank you for including them! Your attention to them are quite refreshing to read and an excellent way to end the moveset after reading such a heavy playstyle section. Bonus points here for the win animation against The Beast or Belle. Flavor text like that really shows how much you cared about the set while writing it and it may seem insignificant but to fans of the series, it makes so much more of a difference. Other movesets could do this too, even when it’s not relevant (such as the interactions in question don’t have a moveset to pin them to).
In conclusion, Xaldin was a wonderful read and my favorite I’ve read yet this contest. I hope nobody shrugs this set off due to character bias or indifference because it’s quite a treat. You have an eye for detail and playstyle, and it does really show your skills not only as a writer, but as a designer also. You don’t leave anything out: thorough information on indivdual attacks, a vision of how they work with the whole, a hefty playstyle section that guides the reader and ties the moveset together, and an understanding of character that sandwiches the set through the introduction and the extras. Awesome job here, Froy.
The Highly X-Alted
Xaldin is one of the best sets I've read, managing to use its main gimmick in multiple clever but simple ways. The set never really feels bloated, though there are still some moves that feel a bit weak, but that's something very few sets can fully manage to overcome. Froy fixed the only real issue i had with the set, that the FSmash was slightly too good when you have all your lances, and a few typos while I was reading it, so I don't really have much else to talk about. The set is really good, and I'll always take a well executed, simple set over something that tries to be complicated and fails.
Actually, I do have another complaint, the set doesn't really give Xaldin that much personality. It's there for a few moves but otherwise he's mostly just lances. I guess you can read him being highly skilled and resourceful through the set too? This isn't a major issue at all, but I hope Lexaeus is a bit better with personality.
Xaldin is one of the best sets I've read, managing to use its main gimmick in multiple clever but simple ways. The set never really feels bloated, though there are still some moves that feel a bit weak, but that's something very few sets can fully manage to overcome. Froy fixed the only real issue i had with the set, that the FSmash was slightly too good when you have all your lances, and a few typos while I was reading it, so I don't really have much else to talk about. The set is really good, and I'll always take a well executed, simple set over something that tries to be complicated and fails.
Actually, I do have another complaint, the set doesn't really give Xaldin that much personality. It's there for a few moves but otherwise he's mostly just lances. I guess you can read him being highly skilled and resourceful through the set too? This isn't a major issue at all, but I hope Lexaeus is a bit better with personality.
Xenolance Chroncles X (Xaldin by FrozenRoy)
Xaldin is good obviously. The concept is golden and I'd be honestly shocked if such a concept wouldn't turn out to wield a set as good as Xaldin, especially in the hands of a veteran as FrozenRoy
While I make it seem like the set was destined to be a home-run, I still want to adress the craftmanship that went in it, such as by praising the balance of a seemingly destined-to-OP mechanic. Moves that can only be disjointed when performed with two lances at once are sprinkled throughout exactly enough to not give Xaldin a free hitbox at all times, but also not so common that Xaldin ever feels like a Solo Popo.
Furthermore, not every move needs to bring a new interaction, and each new interaction present actually adds something. Sometimes the best interaction is simply "Disjointed Lances can/can't pull off the move", making special occassions like the Down Tilt projectile or the Up B even bigger treats, as well as helping the balance by not always giving your set an option for each occasion.
The fact that Froy makes this level of decision-making look natural, simply innate to the mechanic chosen, is a big hint towards his craftmanship and experience as setmaker, and it what makes Xaldin such a good read.
That said, the balance of the set makes or breaks by something....not specifically mentioned in the set and that is the range of the spears! If these badboys are all Ganondorf-sized, that screws with the balance of the entire set. It'd make Xaldin's poking game infuriating and even a mediocre managing of the spears would be oppresive. The fact that such a thing is seemingly missing has my eyebrows (and iconic sideburns) raised because it is dealbreaking on a set that already seems terrifying in the hands of someone capable, let alone a strategy master
Xaldin is good obviously. The concept is golden and I'd be honestly shocked if such a concept wouldn't turn out to wield a set as good as Xaldin, especially in the hands of a veteran as FrozenRoy
While I make it seem like the set was destined to be a home-run, I still want to adress the craftmanship that went in it, such as by praising the balance of a seemingly destined-to-OP mechanic. Moves that can only be disjointed when performed with two lances at once are sprinkled throughout exactly enough to not give Xaldin a free hitbox at all times, but also not so common that Xaldin ever feels like a Solo Popo.
Furthermore, not every move needs to bring a new interaction, and each new interaction present actually adds something. Sometimes the best interaction is simply "Disjointed Lances can/can't pull off the move", making special occassions like the Down Tilt projectile or the Up B even bigger treats, as well as helping the balance by not always giving your set an option for each occasion.
The fact that Froy makes this level of decision-making look natural, simply innate to the mechanic chosen, is a big hint towards his craftmanship and experience as setmaker, and it what makes Xaldin such a good read.
That said, the balance of the set makes or breaks by something....not specifically mentioned in the set and that is the range of the spears! If these badboys are all Ganondorf-sized, that screws with the balance of the entire set. It'd make Xaldin's poking game infuriating and even a mediocre managing of the spears would be oppresive. The fact that such a thing is seemingly missing has my eyebrows (and iconic sideburns) raised because it is dealbreaking on a set that already seems terrifying in the hands of someone capable, let alone a strategy master
Xaldin by FrozenRoy has quickly become one of my favorite sets I've read, which is pretty impressive given how simple and intuitive a lot of the set is. The premise of Xaldin is cool right off the bat, being a big heavyweight bruiser who can move terrifyingly fast through the air and dominate the stage with his lances. Of course, Froy can only get so much credit for Xaldin being an inherently cool character, but he pulls of the set well. Xaldin is essentially Rosalina with four Lumas, but done in a way that makes the placement feel as fun to decide as it is important. Dragoon Reign is a great recovery because spreading Lindworm's lances all over the stage clashes with quite a few of Xaldin's grounded moves, which I would argue is a good thing for this set. It means Xaldin does have to think about the placement rather than just throwing lances as far apart as possible, and the reward of being able to recover from the opposite side of the stage is balanced by hurting a lot of Xaldin's combo abilities. I'm glad this set keeps the same amount of lances in Xaldin's literal hands, allowing moves to not need to change based on his mechanic because that would become a slog to get through. The Shield Special Lindworm is one of the better Shield Specials I've seen (not that there's a ton of competition) but it gives the perfect amount of tradeoff, leaving Xaldin weak to grabs and shield pressure but allowing him to attack while shielded. It's pretty neato.
While the wind powers themselves only come up a few times in the set, they're used very well with Zephyr being a great addition to Xaldin's range-based playstyle. Zephyr also has a lot of cool directional influences which lend themselves to setting up combos better than most controllable projectiles because Xaldin can command his distant lances to do the followups. Wind Shield is a fun idea for a "counter", block a hit and separate from the opponent for the counter activation and then gain some cool options including a great mobility effect for the next use of the move. It's unique but never ends up feeling tacky or clunky. Xaldin's DTilt wind attack is a fun combo starter, given that it just straight up brings foes to Xaldin which makes it much easier for him to approach if he's spending a lot of focus on commanding and positioning his spears. Xaldin's ground game is actually very sound, with simple options on his jab and effective combo-starters on UTilt and DTilt. I'm a little worried, however, about the Dash Attack interfering too much with Xaldin's setup.
As for things I have an issue with, primarily most of it are the few inputs I think are actually underdeveloped, which are the BThrow and some of the Aerials. Xaldin's Aerials, I feel like, should be where he's the strongest, but a lot of his more interesting moves are the grounded ones. There's definitely gems in the aerial game as well, but I don't think it stands out enough to really make Xaldin feel like this airwalking giant as much as it maybe could. That being said, very few of the moves actually feel underdeveloped aside from those. This is because almost all of them have more depth than just "do this attack but also other lances do this attack." Instead, the set starts with cool concepts for moves without factoring in Xaldin's setup lances, and then adds that on afterwards. It makes every move feel briefer in a good way while also keeping the moves from feeling too formulaic like a lot of mechanics do. All in all, this is a really great set despite getting a bit thin in some areas.
While the wind powers themselves only come up a few times in the set, they're used very well with Zephyr being a great addition to Xaldin's range-based playstyle. Zephyr also has a lot of cool directional influences which lend themselves to setting up combos better than most controllable projectiles because Xaldin can command his distant lances to do the followups. Wind Shield is a fun idea for a "counter", block a hit and separate from the opponent for the counter activation and then gain some cool options including a great mobility effect for the next use of the move. It's unique but never ends up feeling tacky or clunky. Xaldin's DTilt wind attack is a fun combo starter, given that it just straight up brings foes to Xaldin which makes it much easier for him to approach if he's spending a lot of focus on commanding and positioning his spears. Xaldin's ground game is actually very sound, with simple options on his jab and effective combo-starters on UTilt and DTilt. I'm a little worried, however, about the Dash Attack interfering too much with Xaldin's setup.
As for things I have an issue with, primarily most of it are the few inputs I think are actually underdeveloped, which are the BThrow and some of the Aerials. Xaldin's Aerials, I feel like, should be where he's the strongest, but a lot of his more interesting moves are the grounded ones. There's definitely gems in the aerial game as well, but I don't think it stands out enough to really make Xaldin feel like this airwalking giant as much as it maybe could. That being said, very few of the moves actually feel underdeveloped aside from those. This is because almost all of them have more depth than just "do this attack but also other lances do this attack." Instead, the set starts with cool concepts for moves without factoring in Xaldin's setup lances, and then adds that on afterwards. It makes every move feel briefer in a good way while also keeping the moves from feeling too formulaic like a lot of mechanics do. All in all, this is a really great set despite getting a bit thin in some areas.
Teasing aside, Lexaeus is a pretty neat character. One could say that he doesn't have much of one (and you do state that, more or less) but I see him as more of both the muscle and respected member of the Organization, such as a capo of a mafia. Taciturn Stalwart indeed. Too bad most of that is bogged down by the absolute mess that is Kingdom Hearts lore.
Much of what makes Lexaeus great I've already covered in my Xaldin commentary. You know the character's abilities well and how to translate them so naturally into Smash. These sets feel like the ultimate representation of what their character is. He's powerful, durable, and his moves have weight behind them. Truly a mountain of a man, Lexaeus fights as a representative of earth itself. His other dual nature, the tomahawk, cleaves his foes with the weight and force behind his attacks that truly requires resolve and strength to put to use. The moves Lexaeus (and Xaldin as well) use feel like they wouldn't fit with any other weapon or element.
In a similar thread, I'd like to praise you for how textured the moves feel. What I mean by this (and my liberal use of "feel") is that consequences of moves seem natural. Okay, that's even more confusing. Let me put it this way: the way your moves interact and behave with not only each other, but the foe and the stage are not only excellent and natural, but form connections that only a few people make. You do it, and MW does as well, but stuff like Lexaeus cracking the earth with his massive weapon and this point acting as a focal point for his attacks, including creating shockwaves are among interactions that not everyone would think to make. They have a style that's distinctly you, and after a while of reading these I can expect them to show up in the logical places and they actually do. It's how I know I'm reading a Froy moveset. Sure, many people could also think to write moves like these, but you're the only author I know of who can elegantly come up with these branching interactions that don't feel contrived. When I read them, I think, "Oh, of course it should work like that, why wouldn't it?"
The moveset is pretty much identical in quality with Xaldin, which isn't a bad thing at all. They have similar strengths and Lexaeus has a few more weaknesses, and I don't mean gameplay-wise. Your writing style can be hard to grok sometimes due to the thorough detail provided and it's usually when you get too punctuation-happy. Perhaps proofread it and try to make it flow a little better? These long paragraphs with more and more added interaction can also clog up the reader's understanding of the move and make it feel too heavy at times, so I'd recommend breaking up those signature Froy move text blocks with the enter key. The presentation here isn't as good as Xaldin's, and I'm not fond of that bright red text which is an ironic contrast to Xaldin's more calmer tones (considering Lexaeus's taciturn nature when he's not in beast mode). Try this text color, for instance, and it'll look more appealing. Great job on the playstyle section again, but where are my extras, Froy??? You got my hopes up.
Alright, so that's Lexaeus. I personally enjoyed him just as much as Xaldin, and it's hard to say which is my favorite, so I'm not going to. Froy, I sincerely hope you match the rest of the sets with the quality of these two, and I look forward to them keenly. To everyone else, read these two when you can. I highly consider them the best I've read so far.
Much of what makes Lexaeus great I've already covered in my Xaldin commentary. You know the character's abilities well and how to translate them so naturally into Smash. These sets feel like the ultimate representation of what their character is. He's powerful, durable, and his moves have weight behind them. Truly a mountain of a man, Lexaeus fights as a representative of earth itself. His other dual nature, the tomahawk, cleaves his foes with the weight and force behind his attacks that truly requires resolve and strength to put to use. The moves Lexaeus (and Xaldin as well) use feel like they wouldn't fit with any other weapon or element.
In a similar thread, I'd like to praise you for how textured the moves feel. What I mean by this (and my liberal use of "feel") is that consequences of moves seem natural. Okay, that's even more confusing. Let me put it this way: the way your moves interact and behave with not only each other, but the foe and the stage are not only excellent and natural, but form connections that only a few people make. You do it, and MW does as well, but stuff like Lexaeus cracking the earth with his massive weapon and this point acting as a focal point for his attacks, including creating shockwaves are among interactions that not everyone would think to make. They have a style that's distinctly you, and after a while of reading these I can expect them to show up in the logical places and they actually do. It's how I know I'm reading a Froy moveset. Sure, many people could also think to write moves like these, but you're the only author I know of who can elegantly come up with these branching interactions that don't feel contrived. When I read them, I think, "Oh, of course it should work like that, why wouldn't it?"
The moveset is pretty much identical in quality with Xaldin, which isn't a bad thing at all. They have similar strengths and Lexaeus has a few more weaknesses, and I don't mean gameplay-wise. Your writing style can be hard to grok sometimes due to the thorough detail provided and it's usually when you get too punctuation-happy. Perhaps proofread it and try to make it flow a little better? These long paragraphs with more and more added interaction can also clog up the reader's understanding of the move and make it feel too heavy at times, so I'd recommend breaking up those signature Froy move text blocks with the enter key. The presentation here isn't as good as Xaldin's, and I'm not fond of that bright red text which is an ironic contrast to Xaldin's more calmer tones (considering Lexaeus's taciturn nature when he's not in beast mode). Try this text color, for instance, and it'll look more appealing. Great job on the playstyle section again, but where are my extras, Froy??? You got my hopes up.
Alright, so that's Lexaeus. I personally enjoyed him just as much as Xaldin, and it's hard to say which is my favorite, so I'm not going to. Froy, I sincerely hope you match the rest of the sets with the quality of these two, and I look forward to them keenly. To everyone else, read these two when you can. I highly consider them the best I've read so far.
I'm always surprised by your talent for crafting these long, intricate movesets for relatively obscure characters from relatively obscure manga and anime, Warlord. Especially Washizu, because I wasn't aware of the presence of this manga before today, much less the idea that there was even a manga for mahjong of all things. Mahjong isn't a game I'm terribly familiar with either, other than playing a few rounds in the school computer lab back in the day. The idea of a set based on mahjong is such a completely unique concept that I have no doubt that that will be the reason someone who would normally not bother with the set due to character bias would give it a read, even if they don't know anything about mahjong.
When you mention the "best tile to complete his hand", I'm assuming that you're referring to getting a complete set of tiles, as in the up special. Otherwise, one could want a specific tile, such as the enemy's best move. Certainly having more of that move would be the best hand, right? It would be helpful to have a cheat sheet for the best hands, just to know exactly what you mean. Take for example, this scenario: Washizu has a hand of UTilt, USmash, USpec, DSpec, NSpec, FThrow, FThrow, FSpec. The enemy's best move is an FThrow. What's the ideal mahjong tile here? Is it an UThrow or an UAir, to complete the Up inputs? Is it FSpec, because the FSpec will be discarded because it's last in queue and Washizu needs a full set of specials for a good hand? Or is it a FThrow, because a stronger FThrow hand means more FThrows to use against an opponent who relies on that throw to kill Washizu? I may just be looking too deep into it and best just means the matches you outlined in the up special.
Something that can't be adjusted with numbers is the forward throw due to the nature of it, because Washizu draws blood from a foe. I had this same problem with Hidan (which I will eventually comment), but how does this work against characters who don't have blood... or an arm, for that matter? What do you drain from R.O.B., for instance, or a ghost... or even The Mountain, a set of your own from this contest? Lava? That seems painful.
You know, with all the detail, Smash terms, and the playstyle revolving around staleness, this is one of the most in-Smash sets I've read from you. That's ironic considering how much influence mahjong has on the set. It's such a well documented and thought-out set that I'm impressed by the amount work put into it and I realize why you haven't posted a set since The Mountain. It looks like it could actually work well in Smash. Washizu is quite a far cry from ye olde Roller Coaster Tycoon and Inspector Lunge.
For the FThrow I would have the mirror briefly reveal the foe's mahjong hand, as trying to track it mentally is another thing entirely. I find it funny that Washizu gets angry at the foe for having a better hand than himself as he is the one giving the foe the tiles in the first place.
The moveset oozes character all over the place, especially with his abuse of his White Suit minions. I can tell you genuinely understand this character and the series he's from. Your style is one that I think is the best at pulling this moveset off; in fact I think you're one of the only ones who could do it. Who else would have taken the care to naturally implement this character into Smash, much less made sure it worked and it was faithful to Washizu? Very few, I imagine.
There are some moves that benefit from staling despite you saying they're hard to hit with. Forward Tilt, for instance, if staled would hit with the spikes due to the reduced knockback. The abundance of super armor, too, makes use of staling because moves hitting on super armor still stale. I don't know if it was intentional or not but I will assume it is. Little things like this make the mechanic very relevant and squeeze the most out of it, so good job on that.
Wrapping up, it was rather refreshing reading a set from you, Warlord. You have been consistent in pretty much all aspects of moveset writing and after 140 sets you still can put out these interesting, detailed, and creative sets. There's not much to improve on here. I can't expect to get extras out of you but Washizu absolutely needs a playstyle section to guide the reader on how to play him because of the intricacies of his mahjong and staling based set. I was honestly surprised you didn't include one, especially since you are one of if not the most important heralds of playstyles in MYM history. Remember match-ups? Good times. All of that being said, this was an excellent and surprisingly digestible set, awesome job.
When you mention the "best tile to complete his hand", I'm assuming that you're referring to getting a complete set of tiles, as in the up special. Otherwise, one could want a specific tile, such as the enemy's best move. Certainly having more of that move would be the best hand, right? It would be helpful to have a cheat sheet for the best hands, just to know exactly what you mean. Take for example, this scenario: Washizu has a hand of UTilt, USmash, USpec, DSpec, NSpec, FThrow, FThrow, FSpec. The enemy's best move is an FThrow. What's the ideal mahjong tile here? Is it an UThrow or an UAir, to complete the Up inputs? Is it FSpec, because the FSpec will be discarded because it's last in queue and Washizu needs a full set of specials for a good hand? Or is it a FThrow, because a stronger FThrow hand means more FThrows to use against an opponent who relies on that throw to kill Washizu? I may just be looking too deep into it and best just means the matches you outlined in the up special.
Something that can't be adjusted with numbers is the forward throw due to the nature of it, because Washizu draws blood from a foe. I had this same problem with Hidan (which I will eventually comment), but how does this work against characters who don't have blood... or an arm, for that matter? What do you drain from R.O.B., for instance, or a ghost... or even The Mountain, a set of your own from this contest? Lava? That seems painful.
You know, with all the detail, Smash terms, and the playstyle revolving around staleness, this is one of the most in-Smash sets I've read from you. That's ironic considering how much influence mahjong has on the set. It's such a well documented and thought-out set that I'm impressed by the amount work put into it and I realize why you haven't posted a set since The Mountain. It looks like it could actually work well in Smash. Washizu is quite a far cry from ye olde Roller Coaster Tycoon and Inspector Lunge.
For the FThrow I would have the mirror briefly reveal the foe's mahjong hand, as trying to track it mentally is another thing entirely. I find it funny that Washizu gets angry at the foe for having a better hand than himself as he is the one giving the foe the tiles in the first place.
The moveset oozes character all over the place, especially with his abuse of his White Suit minions. I can tell you genuinely understand this character and the series he's from. Your style is one that I think is the best at pulling this moveset off; in fact I think you're one of the only ones who could do it. Who else would have taken the care to naturally implement this character into Smash, much less made sure it worked and it was faithful to Washizu? Very few, I imagine.
There are some moves that benefit from staling despite you saying they're hard to hit with. Forward Tilt, for instance, if staled would hit with the spikes due to the reduced knockback. The abundance of super armor, too, makes use of staling because moves hitting on super armor still stale. I don't know if it was intentional or not but I will assume it is. Little things like this make the mechanic very relevant and squeeze the most out of it, so good job on that.
Wrapping up, it was rather refreshing reading a set from you, Warlord. You have been consistent in pretty much all aspects of moveset writing and after 140 sets you still can put out these interesting, detailed, and creative sets. There's not much to improve on here. I can't expect to get extras out of you but Washizu absolutely needs a playstyle section to guide the reader on how to play him because of the intricacies of his mahjong and staling based set. I was honestly surprised you didn't include one, especially since you are one of if not the most important heralds of playstyles in MYM history. Remember match-ups? Good times. All of that being said, this was an excellent and surprisingly digestible set, awesome job.
Washizu
Gotta say, its a really pleasant surprise to see you actually tackle a character like this again, it reminds me of Von Karma a lot from back in the day and while that set has admittedly not aged well, nothing from MYM12 really has and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it at the time. The actual core Mahjong mechanic is, admittedly, quite a challenge to use properly but the set is actually pretty self-aware of that, giving him options like the pummel, white suits, up smash, and Side B to make it easier to pull off. The set never trivializes the process of playing it either, unless you want to commit to an extreme flowchart with the white suits that will absolutely get you killed. The Up Special feels like a suitable and well characterized reward for all your hard work, and I'd say up through the grab game the set feels very well designed and interesting.
Unfortunately, there's a lot to criticize here, but it honestly doesn't feel like sloppiness so much as this character requiring a slightly different approach than the one you took. Early on the gold is introduced with a rage boosting mechanic when its destroyed while providing a slope with it on the stage. This is the main thing you give his melee to play off, and it honestly feels kind of weak in that regard, with the rage mechanic being barely utilized or brought up at all. The slope is, but it pretty rarely feels like it contributes as much as you want it too, making an attack slightly easier to hit here and a KO percent a little earlier there. Washizu doesn't fit in as naturally with these Warlordian mechanics as your more traditional bruiser heavyweights but uses them anyway. While having a subtheme be a little weak in a set where a much stronger mechanic is the core theme, the way you've set things up specifically makes this a bigger problem.
Washizu's Mahjong is in fact, 100% reliant on his melee game to work, because it depends on his staled moves. Mahjong is also a complicated and hard to achieve mechanic, so frequently you are stuck with the less Mahjong-oriened part of his playstyle. There are certainly places where this felt like it was handled pretty well, like how getting a 5 part matching set is made vastly more difficult by his Dair and Dash Attack being hard to land. While I'm actually pretty fond of Dair though, due to it becoming a much more interesting move in the context of the main reward for playing Mahjong, Dash Attack existing solely for the purpose of "this move is awful" feels like a mistake and like it could use a rework of some sort. The standards and aerials just felt like the set was reaching a lot for both animations and applications, with Up Tilt and Fair feeling like pretty extreme examples of both. To go into more detail, Up Tilt's main purpose seems to be KOing slightly earlier with slope angling and has an extremely comical animation that requires a pretty big reach to put in the set, Washizu trying to relive his glory days with the plastic ball and chain that he swings around his neck is a bit much. Plus even if its plastic, he's old and frail enough to need a cane, I can't imagine that'd be good for his spine. Fair has the weirdly inconsistent flavor with the white suit in the aerial dying instantly but if he grabs one you already have on stage because the aerial one is, uh, more pathetic for some reason? The payoff for specifically having the white suit in this fair is something that will basically only ever come up if you grab the foe, which while not an uncommon occurrence still strikes me as pretty niche payoff for swinging around a copy of your minion with inconsistent durability.
As for the actual Mahjong, the set has a surprisingly limited amount of payoff for it. Up Special is great and I kind of wish the aerials were a bit more frequently designed around it like Dair, and the blood drain is obviously good. I think Washizu could at least have something else beyond that, with just the bonus for having a match on FSmash being all he has in terms of other moves. I know you don't want him totally dependant on having matches for power given how wonky that would be to maintain, but another payoff move or two in exchange for say, Down Smash or one of the rather weak inputs I pointed out would make it a bit more exciting to actually go for.
I really hate to just keep complaining, I don't even dislike the set and I'll get into why in a moment, but I actually felt the characterization seemed a bit off to me. Admittedly, this is coming off me watching Kaiji and judging more off Hyoudou than actually having seen Washizu myself, but from what I know Washizu in canon is treated with a fair amount of seriousness and respect, and if its equal to or more than Hyoudou was this set feels a bit too goofy for him. In the set, he's swinging around his own minions in comical fashion, using his nose to attack, dropping gold and then getting mad the opponent breaks it, and using a wacky plastic ball and chain to relive his glory days. I'm not saying this character doesn't have comedic qualities and they shouldn't appear at all in the set(I actually think the grab's flavor is great, and Washizu looking like an idiot if he declares he wins with no matches is perfectly understandable), but as the set gets into the smashes, standards, and aerials makes Washizu look more and more like a joke character. If the top image of the set is anything to go on, this dude is not a joke character at all. I think part of this comes down to the fact that you tend to make sets that use large amounts of physical comedy in the characterization, and while its not completely unfitting on Washizu it takes a bit too big of a role. Its also a little strange how hard you stretch to give him physical attacks when you're perfectly happy to let the pummel and Up Special be magical, allowing the guy who took over hell in his fantasy a little more mahjong magic in place of like, a goofy plastic ball and chain that I don't think he even has in canon feels better to me.
For all my complaints, I would not have spent so long on this comment if I knew you didn't like the character so much. Because frankly, I complain a lot but most of the things I'm complaining about are still serviceable. The melee functions just fine, even if I think it doesn't come across as particularly interesting or a good second layer to the Mahjong it at least would play like a functional smash character. The characterization is wonky in places, sure, but it has its fair share of hits. I enjoy the Nair flavor text even if it wouldn't appear in the actual game and the whole grab game just feels great for exhibitting his character. Honestly most of the problems just feel like they come down to approaching this character like a Fist of the North Star lord when someone more physically frail and simultaneously genuinely dangerous feels like it requires a different style. Its not something that can't be fixed with edits though, and I could even see why you'd be satisfied with the set as is. I just think you'd be happier if a set for this character you liked so much was more of a frontrunner, you know?
Gotta say, its a really pleasant surprise to see you actually tackle a character like this again, it reminds me of Von Karma a lot from back in the day and while that set has admittedly not aged well, nothing from MYM12 really has and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it at the time. The actual core Mahjong mechanic is, admittedly, quite a challenge to use properly but the set is actually pretty self-aware of that, giving him options like the pummel, white suits, up smash, and Side B to make it easier to pull off. The set never trivializes the process of playing it either, unless you want to commit to an extreme flowchart with the white suits that will absolutely get you killed. The Up Special feels like a suitable and well characterized reward for all your hard work, and I'd say up through the grab game the set feels very well designed and interesting.
Unfortunately, there's a lot to criticize here, but it honestly doesn't feel like sloppiness so much as this character requiring a slightly different approach than the one you took. Early on the gold is introduced with a rage boosting mechanic when its destroyed while providing a slope with it on the stage. This is the main thing you give his melee to play off, and it honestly feels kind of weak in that regard, with the rage mechanic being barely utilized or brought up at all. The slope is, but it pretty rarely feels like it contributes as much as you want it too, making an attack slightly easier to hit here and a KO percent a little earlier there. Washizu doesn't fit in as naturally with these Warlordian mechanics as your more traditional bruiser heavyweights but uses them anyway. While having a subtheme be a little weak in a set where a much stronger mechanic is the core theme, the way you've set things up specifically makes this a bigger problem.
Washizu's Mahjong is in fact, 100% reliant on his melee game to work, because it depends on his staled moves. Mahjong is also a complicated and hard to achieve mechanic, so frequently you are stuck with the less Mahjong-oriened part of his playstyle. There are certainly places where this felt like it was handled pretty well, like how getting a 5 part matching set is made vastly more difficult by his Dair and Dash Attack being hard to land. While I'm actually pretty fond of Dair though, due to it becoming a much more interesting move in the context of the main reward for playing Mahjong, Dash Attack existing solely for the purpose of "this move is awful" feels like a mistake and like it could use a rework of some sort. The standards and aerials just felt like the set was reaching a lot for both animations and applications, with Up Tilt and Fair feeling like pretty extreme examples of both. To go into more detail, Up Tilt's main purpose seems to be KOing slightly earlier with slope angling and has an extremely comical animation that requires a pretty big reach to put in the set, Washizu trying to relive his glory days with the plastic ball and chain that he swings around his neck is a bit much. Plus even if its plastic, he's old and frail enough to need a cane, I can't imagine that'd be good for his spine. Fair has the weirdly inconsistent flavor with the white suit in the aerial dying instantly but if he grabs one you already have on stage because the aerial one is, uh, more pathetic for some reason? The payoff for specifically having the white suit in this fair is something that will basically only ever come up if you grab the foe, which while not an uncommon occurrence still strikes me as pretty niche payoff for swinging around a copy of your minion with inconsistent durability.
As for the actual Mahjong, the set has a surprisingly limited amount of payoff for it. Up Special is great and I kind of wish the aerials were a bit more frequently designed around it like Dair, and the blood drain is obviously good. I think Washizu could at least have something else beyond that, with just the bonus for having a match on FSmash being all he has in terms of other moves. I know you don't want him totally dependant on having matches for power given how wonky that would be to maintain, but another payoff move or two in exchange for say, Down Smash or one of the rather weak inputs I pointed out would make it a bit more exciting to actually go for.
I really hate to just keep complaining, I don't even dislike the set and I'll get into why in a moment, but I actually felt the characterization seemed a bit off to me. Admittedly, this is coming off me watching Kaiji and judging more off Hyoudou than actually having seen Washizu myself, but from what I know Washizu in canon is treated with a fair amount of seriousness and respect, and if its equal to or more than Hyoudou was this set feels a bit too goofy for him. In the set, he's swinging around his own minions in comical fashion, using his nose to attack, dropping gold and then getting mad the opponent breaks it, and using a wacky plastic ball and chain to relive his glory days. I'm not saying this character doesn't have comedic qualities and they shouldn't appear at all in the set(I actually think the grab's flavor is great, and Washizu looking like an idiot if he declares he wins with no matches is perfectly understandable), but as the set gets into the smashes, standards, and aerials makes Washizu look more and more like a joke character. If the top image of the set is anything to go on, this dude is not a joke character at all. I think part of this comes down to the fact that you tend to make sets that use large amounts of physical comedy in the characterization, and while its not completely unfitting on Washizu it takes a bit too big of a role. Its also a little strange how hard you stretch to give him physical attacks when you're perfectly happy to let the pummel and Up Special be magical, allowing the guy who took over hell in his fantasy a little more mahjong magic in place of like, a goofy plastic ball and chain that I don't think he even has in canon feels better to me.
For all my complaints, I would not have spent so long on this comment if I knew you didn't like the character so much. Because frankly, I complain a lot but most of the things I'm complaining about are still serviceable. The melee functions just fine, even if I think it doesn't come across as particularly interesting or a good second layer to the Mahjong it at least would play like a functional smash character. The characterization is wonky in places, sure, but it has its fair share of hits. I enjoy the Nair flavor text even if it wouldn't appear in the actual game and the whole grab game just feels great for exhibitting his character. Honestly most of the problems just feel like they come down to approaching this character like a Fist of the North Star lord when someone more physically frail and simultaneously genuinely dangerous feels like it requires a different style. Its not something that can't be fixed with edits though, and I could even see why you'd be satisfied with the set as is. I just think you'd be happier if a set for this character you liked so much was more of a frontrunner, you know?
WAAAAAA SHIIIIIII ZUUUUUU (Washizu Iwao)
Okay, SO, Washizu. I thought the set was...okay. The Mahjong mechanic and how it works is pretty legitimately interesting, but I feel like it is lacking in some areas. First off, I feel like the payoff is kinda low. There's his Up Special, which is admittedly, pretty good, his blood drawing through, kiiiind of the KO throw but that's more based on the foe and F-Smash. This mechanic is significantly more involved and complex than, say, Cloud's Limit Break and yet affects the same number of moves. I feel like given how central this mechanic is to Washizu, it should do more to his set.
The other thing is the Mahjong mechanic is mostly interesting in the context of having a good set to fight the foe, as the way you generate your resource in this case is fighting the opponent. This means that Washizu's melee and general fighting is going to be central to enjoying him and that there's the push and pull of "move i want to use" and "Move that finishes my hand". Inherent tension, basically. And you actually do something good with this in making 1 move in each section hard to complete due to having one move that isn't easy to hit with. One of the problems I have though is that Washizu's fighting outside the Mahjong is...pretty boring? I wasn't able to get much of a sense of how Washizu wants to actually fight the foe in the aerials or ESPECIALLY the standards, which felt fairly weak. The ball and chain feels like an out of nowhere addition especially since, as far as I know, it is basically a flashback thing. Why does the plastic "toy" ball and chain have iron spikes in it, anyway? Why does it do the damage it does when the spikes don't pop out and why doesn't he pop them out for the Jab?
In general the problem I have with the melee is it feels like it lacks a point and is using slopes as a crutch to have something to say. The gold itself doesn't even feel that well layered into the set, and then kind of comes around for some lame interactions in the standards that don't feel especially worth it? is Washizu REALLY able to take advantage of the rare chance that he uses his Up Tilt at a purely upward angle, especially given he is (rightfully) not a terraformer? I feel like he needs a stronger base playstyle outside of the Mahjong because gaining the Mahjong tile pieces directly requires fighting the opponent, so that meat needs to be fun.
To that end, someting I would suggest for "moves that are hard to land for full Mahjong hands" is to make them more SITUATIONAL than, say, just plain bad in the Dash Attack's case, and then think of ways to play off of those situations in the rest of the set. For example, a move that is good for catching out an air dodge or roll, and so Washizu wants to use his moves/threaten to use moves that bait the opponent into doing so, and now the opponent has to think if Washizu wants to actually hit wit hthe move or is using it to bait and complete his hand. Not only does this create an interesting gameplay function, but it even fits the flavor of these kind of Mahjong manga with back-and-forth plotting and "what if he knows i know" kind of things.
Another option is, for example, to make it so some of his harder to land moves can be combo'd into...but in return he loses a longer combo or a more damaging option. So Washizu needs to weigh if he wants to go for the hard to hit move to complete his hand OR if he wants more damage fast, basically the same risk vs. reward you talk about in the opening of what Washizu is suggested by the minions vs. risky decisions. This also helps add tension and decision-making to Washizu's overall gameplan even if he doesn't have a full match of Mahjong or what have you.
I, personally, would remove the ball and chain on the Standards and give him more Mahjong-y attacks, kiiind of like the Up Smash. Given Washizu's biggest trait is that he is an Old Mahjong Rich Guy and whatnot, it feels a lot more natural for him to do that. I wouldn't even mind if he just, I dunno, pulled out a large Mahjong piece and hit the foe with it. Phoenix Wright can get away with stuff like this in MvC3, we've had PW sets get away with it as an example, and it feels like the kind of character where this propiness is justified. The ball and chain attacks feel out of place, especially since the weapon makes no appearance before the last section (hell, he uses a lance before then!) and why id it even plastic anyway?
I would consider removing the gold Special entirely. Or if you keep it, intergrating it more into the playstyle, or hell making it more "Washizu can spend his hard earned fortune to Do A Thing". Right now it doesn't feel like it connects into most of his playstyle is a satisfactory way to me. I would consider actually making this Special into a big, flashy attack based on the Mahjong mechanic. Like, these Mahjong plays usually have a character reveal their BIG HAND with a FLASHY NAME AND LOTS OF DRAMA, so what if Washizu simply had a move where he called his hand and its power varied on what he had. Maybe even add in a hand for having 9 DIFFERENT tiles since IIRC that is a Mahjong thing, or just to represent Ultra Rare Mahjong Hands or what have you. It would fit thematically and give Washizu a big chance to cash in on managing his Mahjong mechanic well. If yu want an extra reason of why the hand does this super damage, give it the POWER OF THE GOOOOODS or some ****.
Off the top of my head, some other thoughts: Washizu's nose in Up Aerial is his 4th strongest kill move. Given F-Smash is ultra laggy, Dash Attack is intentionally bad and his kill throw requires the opponent's stale moves, Washizu's main kill move is his nose. This seems Slightly Odd. The flavor of Neutral Aerial is going to be super hard to convey in the actual game and so just look like Washizu keeps punching his fist into a mirror on a reasonably spammed move. Taking out a minion JUST for FAir feels kind of bizarre, like if King Dedede took out a Waddle Dee for UAir or some ****. I think expanding the cane mechanic past just the throw could be interesting and add more to the cane moves if breaking them on different moves did things or contributed to the throw break. Down Aerial implies the shockwave deals 17% damage, this is stupid on an old man hitting the ground with a spear. Washizu is bizarrely heavy for an old Mahjong playing rich guy, equal to a big swordsman who wields a two handed sword with one hand and a character whose major defining trait is fat. Being an antagonist does not make you 8th in weight by default.
You already saw this when I posted it before, but despite the negativity I wouldn't call Washizu bad...just ultimately a pretty average set that suffers heavily from some flaws.
Okay, SO, Washizu. I thought the set was...okay. The Mahjong mechanic and how it works is pretty legitimately interesting, but I feel like it is lacking in some areas. First off, I feel like the payoff is kinda low. There's his Up Special, which is admittedly, pretty good, his blood drawing through, kiiiind of the KO throw but that's more based on the foe and F-Smash. This mechanic is significantly more involved and complex than, say, Cloud's Limit Break and yet affects the same number of moves. I feel like given how central this mechanic is to Washizu, it should do more to his set.
The other thing is the Mahjong mechanic is mostly interesting in the context of having a good set to fight the foe, as the way you generate your resource in this case is fighting the opponent. This means that Washizu's melee and general fighting is going to be central to enjoying him and that there's the push and pull of "move i want to use" and "Move that finishes my hand". Inherent tension, basically. And you actually do something good with this in making 1 move in each section hard to complete due to having one move that isn't easy to hit with. One of the problems I have though is that Washizu's fighting outside the Mahjong is...pretty boring? I wasn't able to get much of a sense of how Washizu wants to actually fight the foe in the aerials or ESPECIALLY the standards, which felt fairly weak. The ball and chain feels like an out of nowhere addition especially since, as far as I know, it is basically a flashback thing. Why does the plastic "toy" ball and chain have iron spikes in it, anyway? Why does it do the damage it does when the spikes don't pop out and why doesn't he pop them out for the Jab?
In general the problem I have with the melee is it feels like it lacks a point and is using slopes as a crutch to have something to say. The gold itself doesn't even feel that well layered into the set, and then kind of comes around for some lame interactions in the standards that don't feel especially worth it? is Washizu REALLY able to take advantage of the rare chance that he uses his Up Tilt at a purely upward angle, especially given he is (rightfully) not a terraformer? I feel like he needs a stronger base playstyle outside of the Mahjong because gaining the Mahjong tile pieces directly requires fighting the opponent, so that meat needs to be fun.
To that end, someting I would suggest for "moves that are hard to land for full Mahjong hands" is to make them more SITUATIONAL than, say, just plain bad in the Dash Attack's case, and then think of ways to play off of those situations in the rest of the set. For example, a move that is good for catching out an air dodge or roll, and so Washizu wants to use his moves/threaten to use moves that bait the opponent into doing so, and now the opponent has to think if Washizu wants to actually hit wit hthe move or is using it to bait and complete his hand. Not only does this create an interesting gameplay function, but it even fits the flavor of these kind of Mahjong manga with back-and-forth plotting and "what if he knows i know" kind of things.
Another option is, for example, to make it so some of his harder to land moves can be combo'd into...but in return he loses a longer combo or a more damaging option. So Washizu needs to weigh if he wants to go for the hard to hit move to complete his hand OR if he wants more damage fast, basically the same risk vs. reward you talk about in the opening of what Washizu is suggested by the minions vs. risky decisions. This also helps add tension and decision-making to Washizu's overall gameplan even if he doesn't have a full match of Mahjong or what have you.
I, personally, would remove the ball and chain on the Standards and give him more Mahjong-y attacks, kiiind of like the Up Smash. Given Washizu's biggest trait is that he is an Old Mahjong Rich Guy and whatnot, it feels a lot more natural for him to do that. I wouldn't even mind if he just, I dunno, pulled out a large Mahjong piece and hit the foe with it. Phoenix Wright can get away with stuff like this in MvC3, we've had PW sets get away with it as an example, and it feels like the kind of character where this propiness is justified. The ball and chain attacks feel out of place, especially since the weapon makes no appearance before the last section (hell, he uses a lance before then!) and why id it even plastic anyway?
I would consider removing the gold Special entirely. Or if you keep it, intergrating it more into the playstyle, or hell making it more "Washizu can spend his hard earned fortune to Do A Thing". Right now it doesn't feel like it connects into most of his playstyle is a satisfactory way to me. I would consider actually making this Special into a big, flashy attack based on the Mahjong mechanic. Like, these Mahjong plays usually have a character reveal their BIG HAND with a FLASHY NAME AND LOTS OF DRAMA, so what if Washizu simply had a move where he called his hand and its power varied on what he had. Maybe even add in a hand for having 9 DIFFERENT tiles since IIRC that is a Mahjong thing, or just to represent Ultra Rare Mahjong Hands or what have you. It would fit thematically and give Washizu a big chance to cash in on managing his Mahjong mechanic well. If yu want an extra reason of why the hand does this super damage, give it the POWER OF THE GOOOOODS or some ****.
Off the top of my head, some other thoughts: Washizu's nose in Up Aerial is his 4th strongest kill move. Given F-Smash is ultra laggy, Dash Attack is intentionally bad and his kill throw requires the opponent's stale moves, Washizu's main kill move is his nose. This seems Slightly Odd. The flavor of Neutral Aerial is going to be super hard to convey in the actual game and so just look like Washizu keeps punching his fist into a mirror on a reasonably spammed move. Taking out a minion JUST for FAir feels kind of bizarre, like if King Dedede took out a Waddle Dee for UAir or some ****. I think expanding the cane mechanic past just the throw could be interesting and add more to the cane moves if breaking them on different moves did things or contributed to the throw break. Down Aerial implies the shockwave deals 17% damage, this is stupid on an old man hitting the ground with a spear. Washizu is bizarrely heavy for an old Mahjong playing rich guy, equal to a big swordsman who wields a two handed sword with one hand and a character whose major defining trait is fat. Being an antagonist does not make you 8th in weight by default.
You already saw this when I posted it before, but despite the negativity I wouldn't call Washizu bad...just ultimately a pretty average set that suffers heavily from some flaws.
Just the name Cat Battleship got me interested in this set from your updates in the Discord, Lex, and even moreso when I saw what the character looked like. What an odd character. I'm guessing Parodius is a portmanteau of Gradius and parody?The penguins are a neat idea that reminds me of followers from The Binding of Isaac, specifically the Incubus follower. The way they function and that you mention they fire the projectiles that Cat Battleship fires before you get to the projectiles themselves makes me anticipate that this will be a faithful homage to shoot 'em up games like the ones Cat Battleship is from. Very nice. I do fear that their fragility may make them too weak, but for now I'll believe that they're not.
Never mind, with the penguins out Cat Battleship becomes an absurd projectile spammer. Characters with no good approach options would get riddled with the myriad projectiles, all the kitty has to do is spam and run away. Great job faithfully recreating bullet hell in Smash, but still... when you give a character who already has a myriad amount of projectiles at their disposal an upgraded version of one of the best NSpecs in the game as their Jab...
You've got an absurdly silly character here and while you do inject a lot of flavor into the set, you don't seem to own the absurdity of it. Rather than playing up the silliness of Cat Battleship and Parodius, you repeat the phrase "Parodius is a weird series" four times and always follow up the comicality of the moves you write with hesitant confusion like someone handed you a box with a dead squirrel in it as a Christmas gift but you don't want to be rude to them. The best part of having a comical and weird character or source material is running with it and being behind it all the way, not caring what the reader thinks. The reader will join in with you and celebrate the weirdness if you back it fully, otherwise they'll just not get it and lose out on the experience.
Your writing has quite a lot of voice, making it an easy and digestible read. Unlike many of the other sets I've read this contest, I had nearly no issues with understanding what you were trying to say through your writing. Your writing is impacted by that you sometimes seem fed up or confused by your own set like I previously mentioned. Try limited the negative remarks when writing and focusing on the positive, even sounding excited for things that may not be that exciting. It will leave a stronger impression on the reader and get them excited as well, and cover up the weaker parts of the set to boot.
There's also the minor problem of your comparisons. Rather than using a set measurement tool for everything or terms that are easy enough for the average reader (very small, huge, medium, quick, slow, etc.) you constantly compare moves to attributes from other characters. While this isn't necessarily bad, the varying amount of characters you use is far too long, rather than keeping it narrowed down to a few characters. The reader is expected to know attributes from Ganondorf, Samus, Villager, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Bowser, Link, K. Rool, Mega Man, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Pichu, Pikachu, Fox, Corrin, Luigi, Peach, and Robin. Try to keep the amount of references like this low, otherwise these comparisons will mean nothing to the readers who don't know these characters, who will just nod along, expecting that you know what you're talking about.
Cat Battleship has quite a lot more character than most sets, and it shows through the minutiae of attacks. The goggles breaking, the little penguins, the cat's emotions during animations, using meowing as an attack. I love it.
There seems to be a few logical inconsistencies in the way the Options work that would confuse players. You state in the NSpec that they fire the exact same projectiles whenever Cat Battleship fires projectiles, but then contradict this in the USpec, USmash, FAir, and DAir. The penguins from the NSpec die from any damaging hit but the penguins from the DTilt have two HP... and the penguins from the UTilt don't have a specification whether they're the former or the latter, but they are also different sizes from the DTilt and NSpec penguins. And they also preform the DSmash for no good reason, as it's not a projectile and the explosions are harmless which means they do absolutely nothing!
So, I know I've been quite a bit more negative with this set than others I've commented on. Here's what I think is good: You have a great playstyle idea here. Bullet hell from a bullet hell boss. It's as close to the character's home as it gets, and a pretty faithful translation of it. You've got a lot of characterization that befits the Cat, and each attack feels like its distinctly for this character. Everything the set needs to work is there, and there are no balance complaints, as the Battleship has very clear weaknesses that can be exploited. Your writing is great and clear, and you don't stumble at all in communicating your ideas effectively. Cool stuff, Lex, I know you have the potential to wow us, so I'd like to see that in the future!
Never mind, with the penguins out Cat Battleship becomes an absurd projectile spammer. Characters with no good approach options would get riddled with the myriad projectiles, all the kitty has to do is spam and run away. Great job faithfully recreating bullet hell in Smash, but still... when you give a character who already has a myriad amount of projectiles at their disposal an upgraded version of one of the best NSpecs in the game as their Jab...
You've got an absurdly silly character here and while you do inject a lot of flavor into the set, you don't seem to own the absurdity of it. Rather than playing up the silliness of Cat Battleship and Parodius, you repeat the phrase "Parodius is a weird series" four times and always follow up the comicality of the moves you write with hesitant confusion like someone handed you a box with a dead squirrel in it as a Christmas gift but you don't want to be rude to them. The best part of having a comical and weird character or source material is running with it and being behind it all the way, not caring what the reader thinks. The reader will join in with you and celebrate the weirdness if you back it fully, otherwise they'll just not get it and lose out on the experience.
Your writing has quite a lot of voice, making it an easy and digestible read. Unlike many of the other sets I've read this contest, I had nearly no issues with understanding what you were trying to say through your writing. Your writing is impacted by that you sometimes seem fed up or confused by your own set like I previously mentioned. Try limited the negative remarks when writing and focusing on the positive, even sounding excited for things that may not be that exciting. It will leave a stronger impression on the reader and get them excited as well, and cover up the weaker parts of the set to boot.
There's also the minor problem of your comparisons. Rather than using a set measurement tool for everything or terms that are easy enough for the average reader (very small, huge, medium, quick, slow, etc.) you constantly compare moves to attributes from other characters. While this isn't necessarily bad, the varying amount of characters you use is far too long, rather than keeping it narrowed down to a few characters. The reader is expected to know attributes from Ganondorf, Samus, Villager, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Bowser, Link, K. Rool, Mega Man, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Pichu, Pikachu, Fox, Corrin, Luigi, Peach, and Robin. Try to keep the amount of references like this low, otherwise these comparisons will mean nothing to the readers who don't know these characters, who will just nod along, expecting that you know what you're talking about.
Cat Battleship has quite a lot more character than most sets, and it shows through the minutiae of attacks. The goggles breaking, the little penguins, the cat's emotions during animations, using meowing as an attack. I love it.
There seems to be a few logical inconsistencies in the way the Options work that would confuse players. You state in the NSpec that they fire the exact same projectiles whenever Cat Battleship fires projectiles, but then contradict this in the USpec, USmash, FAir, and DAir. The penguins from the NSpec die from any damaging hit but the penguins from the DTilt have two HP... and the penguins from the UTilt don't have a specification whether they're the former or the latter, but they are also different sizes from the DTilt and NSpec penguins. And they also preform the DSmash for no good reason, as it's not a projectile and the explosions are harmless which means they do absolutely nothing!
So, I know I've been quite a bit more negative with this set than others I've commented on. Here's what I think is good: You have a great playstyle idea here. Bullet hell from a bullet hell boss. It's as close to the character's home as it gets, and a pretty faithful translation of it. You've got a lot of characterization that befits the Cat, and each attack feels like its distinctly for this character. Everything the set needs to work is there, and there are no balance complaints, as the Battleship has very clear weaknesses that can be exploited. Your writing is great and clear, and you don't stumble at all in communicating your ideas effectively. Cool stuff, Lex, I know you have the potential to wow us, so I'd like to see that in the future!
Right on the heels of Cat Battleship we have WeirdChillFever's Impa who seems to have waited 100 years for Link but not for a comment on the previous set to appear before they posted it. Tsk, tsk. As shown with Kilton, you have a sort of affinity for these Breath of the Wild NPCs who clearly have no business fighting anyone, but here they are. Most people, when writing an Impa set, would have opted for her Skyward Sword appearance, or her Ocarina of Time. Old age isn't going to stop her here, though. She looks quite battle ready as a T-posing Yoda.
First, I have to say that Stasis is such a cool move idea. Taking the Sheikah Slate abilities from Breath of the Wild and applying them to Smash is so cool, especially with the silliness that you can do with them in Breath. Impa is the kind of character I'd play just for this move alone. You capitalize on this idea by giving Impa the orb, which I assume is the orb from her home in Kakariko Village. It would be helpful to have a picture. I don't like the disconnect between the grab and neutral special having different properties despite both being Stasis. In fact, throws should be something the character can't do unless they have the opponent grabbed, and as it is there is a good logical argument for Impa being able to use throws during the NSpec Stasis.
I would have liked less props as well. I know Impa is quite a frail old lady, but there is some spryness in her and a glint of mischief. Call me a Sakurai-lover if you want but I do have an admiration of how he turns these characters who have no business fighting into smack-happy combo characters. Props in moderation are okay, but I don't see why Impa needs four on her throws, and each one different. The moves utilizing magic are much more agreeable, so I'd have preferred you use that more. Perhaps even replacing the prop hitboxes with magic versions that are functionally identical.
The way you use the other Sheikah Slate abilities is really clever. I'm not sure if they're magic or technology, or if those two are indeed indistinguishable from each other (thanks Arthur C. Clarke) but I'm wondering if Impa has some Sheikah tech hidden somewhere. Maybe in that stupid hat of hers? Heh. Consider using the other abilities in conjunction with each other for a deeper playstyle. For instance, what if you could use Stasis on the Cryo pillars, hit the pillars, and then send them flying off in blocks from the force, rather than being destroyed in place?
The playstyle itself is really fun, it looks like. I'm more of a nimble fighter, so I think I'd enjoy her. Great job. I'd prefer if you had a Final Smash, but you have a playstyle section to make up for it, as many people forget one or the other. I'd like some extras here too; Impa has a lot of potential for characterization, which you seem to nail most of the time. Your writing is very accessible and easy to read, and the moveset has a lot of voice which is good. I wish you'd double space your moves instead of hitting the enter key once, but that's just me. Overall Impa is a fair piece of work from you and a nice translation of her Breath appearance, even though you had to squeeze a lot more juice from the rest of the game to fit her.
First, I have to say that Stasis is such a cool move idea. Taking the Sheikah Slate abilities from Breath of the Wild and applying them to Smash is so cool, especially with the silliness that you can do with them in Breath. Impa is the kind of character I'd play just for this move alone. You capitalize on this idea by giving Impa the orb, which I assume is the orb from her home in Kakariko Village. It would be helpful to have a picture. I don't like the disconnect between the grab and neutral special having different properties despite both being Stasis. In fact, throws should be something the character can't do unless they have the opponent grabbed, and as it is there is a good logical argument for Impa being able to use throws during the NSpec Stasis.
I would have liked less props as well. I know Impa is quite a frail old lady, but there is some spryness in her and a glint of mischief. Call me a Sakurai-lover if you want but I do have an admiration of how he turns these characters who have no business fighting into smack-happy combo characters. Props in moderation are okay, but I don't see why Impa needs four on her throws, and each one different. The moves utilizing magic are much more agreeable, so I'd have preferred you use that more. Perhaps even replacing the prop hitboxes with magic versions that are functionally identical.
The way you use the other Sheikah Slate abilities is really clever. I'm not sure if they're magic or technology, or if those two are indeed indistinguishable from each other (thanks Arthur C. Clarke) but I'm wondering if Impa has some Sheikah tech hidden somewhere. Maybe in that stupid hat of hers? Heh. Consider using the other abilities in conjunction with each other for a deeper playstyle. For instance, what if you could use Stasis on the Cryo pillars, hit the pillars, and then send them flying off in blocks from the force, rather than being destroyed in place?
The playstyle itself is really fun, it looks like. I'm more of a nimble fighter, so I think I'd enjoy her. Great job. I'd prefer if you had a Final Smash, but you have a playstyle section to make up for it, as many people forget one or the other. I'd like some extras here too; Impa has a lot of potential for characterization, which you seem to nail most of the time. Your writing is very accessible and easy to read, and the moveset has a lot of voice which is good. I wish you'd double space your moves instead of hitting the enter key once, but that's just me. Overall Impa is a fair piece of work from you and a nice translation of her Breath appearance, even though you had to squeeze a lot more juice from the rest of the game to fit her.
I was surprised to see a moveset from you so soon after Cat Battleship. Corn Barnacle reminds me of the Battleship as well, although I'm sure many of the similarities rise to mind due to your prior set being so fresh in my mind. You have an unconventional character choice from an obscure source material, because how many people do you think are familiar with Parodius or NEO AQUARIUM? Writing with a source material you have a much more intimate knowledge of than the average reader could be either a boon or a curse. Having a more recognizable source (say, for example, Pokémon) means that your moveset will spark more interest in a reader, but the flip side of this is that the reader will have preconceived notions of the character that you may not fulfill; they will inevitably say, "Well why didn't you include this move?" or "Why wasn't this in the set?". When you have a relatively unknown source, the world is your oyster, so to speak. You can make the set however you want due to the reader's unfamiliarity with the source. No one's going to call you out on mischaracterization or Pokémon Syndrome (putting in attacks from a character's source that don't fit the character; for example, a Ryu set borrowing moves from Dhalism just because they're Street Fighter moves) except the one other nerd who wanders in and lectures you on NEO AQUARIUM.
Another aspect of Cat Battleship this set is reminiscent of is a kind of incremental, increasing power the two sets share. Corn Barnacle gets stronger as it multiplies as Cat Battleship gains strength through Options. The extra barnacles multiply their attacks, just as Options multiply Battleship's projectiles. The structure of the sets' attacks are also similar: you describe the attack in the beginning of the move, then expound on its strengths and weaknesses including modality, and lastly mention how the additions to the set affect the attacks. This is something I wouldn't have caught if I hadn't just recently read Battleship.
I'd like to compliment you on improving your writing. There is a lot more confidence in this set than the issues I pointed out in your prior set. There's much more zaniness in the source material and character concept behind this set in my opinion but you aren't constantly questioning the zane this time. You stand behind it, fully endorsing it, as in, "Yeah, it's a damn arthropod. Just a barnacle fighting in Smash. What are you going to do about it?" I don't even mind that the moves are pretty brief. It's a very pleasant and light read that's not hard at all to grasp. You've still got plenty of voice, and the moveset reads like you're inserting your internal monologue into the moves at times.
Obviously everyone's going to wonder how balanced the set is. Due to the nature of it, I feel like it's going to be either overpowered or underpowered. A character with unique mechanics like this doesn't typically have middling matchups. I'm inclined to believe it's underpowered, especially after playing Smash Ultimate which seems like a fast game. Large hitboxes, powerful attacks, and great grabs seem like the name of the game, and it feels like Barnacle would have a hard time sticking around against these. On the flip side, in the MYM World of Durdling I think it'd do quite well. There are polarizing matchups, for sure, some of which I'll leave you and Jamie to endlessly roast in the Discord like you usually do. Just pick a Wizzerd or Junahu set and have fun.
I adore the idea behind the set, and the moves themselves look really fun and unique. You've nailed the playstyle of a barnacle down for the most part, if that's even possible. Well, as much as you could do with what you had. That being said, I feel like Barnacle is being torn between two worlds. On one hand, you need to make a set for Smash. On the other, I'd have loved if you ran with the barnacle concept even more, going beyond Smash and the source material. Having as many barnacles as you want on screen, pure stage control, a creeping fighter that's hard to remove that would eventually cover everything. If I would have done it, I'd have borrowed from Dark Blue Moon from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Imagine, for instance, covering the foe in barnacles and weighing them down, perhaps even controlling them? Encrusting their shields, perhaps, or maybe some underwater shenanigans. I didn't make the set, however, so I can't be that picky.
Overall, I like this set a lot more than Cat Battleship! It was a cute read and some freshness that I haven't seen in a character concept in ages. It's still got your style and personal passion, and shows that you can improve and learn from feedback. Thanks for the read, Lex, I look forward to more.
Another aspect of Cat Battleship this set is reminiscent of is a kind of incremental, increasing power the two sets share. Corn Barnacle gets stronger as it multiplies as Cat Battleship gains strength through Options. The extra barnacles multiply their attacks, just as Options multiply Battleship's projectiles. The structure of the sets' attacks are also similar: you describe the attack in the beginning of the move, then expound on its strengths and weaknesses including modality, and lastly mention how the additions to the set affect the attacks. This is something I wouldn't have caught if I hadn't just recently read Battleship.
I'd like to compliment you on improving your writing. There is a lot more confidence in this set than the issues I pointed out in your prior set. There's much more zaniness in the source material and character concept behind this set in my opinion but you aren't constantly questioning the zane this time. You stand behind it, fully endorsing it, as in, "Yeah, it's a damn arthropod. Just a barnacle fighting in Smash. What are you going to do about it?" I don't even mind that the moves are pretty brief. It's a very pleasant and light read that's not hard at all to grasp. You've still got plenty of voice, and the moveset reads like you're inserting your internal monologue into the moves at times.
Obviously everyone's going to wonder how balanced the set is. Due to the nature of it, I feel like it's going to be either overpowered or underpowered. A character with unique mechanics like this doesn't typically have middling matchups. I'm inclined to believe it's underpowered, especially after playing Smash Ultimate which seems like a fast game. Large hitboxes, powerful attacks, and great grabs seem like the name of the game, and it feels like Barnacle would have a hard time sticking around against these. On the flip side, in the MYM World of Durdling I think it'd do quite well. There are polarizing matchups, for sure, some of which I'll leave you and Jamie to endlessly roast in the Discord like you usually do. Just pick a Wizzerd or Junahu set and have fun.
I adore the idea behind the set, and the moves themselves look really fun and unique. You've nailed the playstyle of a barnacle down for the most part, if that's even possible. Well, as much as you could do with what you had. That being said, I feel like Barnacle is being torn between two worlds. On one hand, you need to make a set for Smash. On the other, I'd have loved if you ran with the barnacle concept even more, going beyond Smash and the source material. Having as many barnacles as you want on screen, pure stage control, a creeping fighter that's hard to remove that would eventually cover everything. If I would have done it, I'd have borrowed from Dark Blue Moon from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Imagine, for instance, covering the foe in barnacles and weighing them down, perhaps even controlling them? Encrusting their shields, perhaps, or maybe some underwater shenanigans. I didn't make the set, however, so I can't be that picky.
Overall, I like this set a lot more than Cat Battleship! It was a cute read and some freshness that I haven't seen in a character concept in ages. It's still got your style and personal passion, and shows that you can improve and learn from feedback. Thanks for the read, Lex, I look forward to more.
I've read a lot of movesets this contest whose playstyle boils down to creating or summoning a projectile or trap and manipulating it in various ways to serve as the playstyle. If PlanetMan.EXE didn't pulled it off in an interesting and in-character way I would not have a favorable perspective of the moveset. Not that it's bad; it's that you get kind of bored seeing ideas repeating. I'm not accusing you of intentionally taking ideas from other sets, but perhaps this vein of playstyle is what's popular? The orbits, gravity, and theme of planets and space in general is what sets PlanetMan.EXE apart from the other sets and is what I liked about it.
Back Air is... interesting. You seem to like it but I'm not a fan. Same with Up Air. I get it, PlanetMan.EXE needs projectiles, but I don't like having these on aerials. I think that the tilts and aerials could be swapped around to make this better. I can see these working fine on a tilt. It's not that they're functionally broken, but they seem to be creative for the sake of spicing up boring inputs. In general quick, more boring but powerful attacks work better on aerials because of how Smash plays with shorthopping, approaching, and edgeguarding... or at least how I play. That's just my perspective.
I like the idea behind the grab, but why does PlanetMan.EXE have to specifically force choke the opponent? Especially opponents without a throat? Simply holding them in place, perhaps making them turn as they float slightly like they're in zero gravity does functionally the same thing. Using gravitational pull as a grab is a great idea, though. I love the up and down throw, too, they're really nice moves that fit PlanetMan.EXE.
Thanks for including a Final Smash and Playstyle section. This moveset is one I'd recommend having diagrams for, as some moves you obfuscate with your descriptions due to the amount of things they do, such as the Neutral Special. Using sprites to represent their behavior in relation to PlanetMan.EXE and positioning would be great to better communicate their functions. The same goes for pretty much any attack that has a "ring". A visual representation of how projectiles orbit around PlanetMan.EXE too would be really helpful.
I think the moveset could be improved with less focus on additional effects (the side special has so many different things it can do despite being what would normally be a pretty simple move) and more focus on taking the idea of the orbiting and making simple moves that work elegantly with that. I would have made the planets block projectiles and act as better passive hitboxes with a large risk of losing them if you expended them on moves. A good inspiration for how orbitals are best implemented in any game I've ever played is The Binding of Isaac, where orbitals are good hitboxes that can block attacks but are very high-risk because of the proximity to enemy attacks and the potential for punishment.
I love the various space-themed attacks and the gravity moves in particular. I love Down Special. My least favorite move in the set is probably the Down Smash, because even though it is from PlanetMan.EXE's source material it just does not fit with his overall theme despite being a great move by itself. Cool moveset, US, definitely an enjoyable and easy read with a fun playstyle and wealth of ideas.
Back Air is... interesting. You seem to like it but I'm not a fan. Same with Up Air. I get it, PlanetMan.EXE needs projectiles, but I don't like having these on aerials. I think that the tilts and aerials could be swapped around to make this better. I can see these working fine on a tilt. It's not that they're functionally broken, but they seem to be creative for the sake of spicing up boring inputs. In general quick, more boring but powerful attacks work better on aerials because of how Smash plays with shorthopping, approaching, and edgeguarding... or at least how I play. That's just my perspective.
I like the idea behind the grab, but why does PlanetMan.EXE have to specifically force choke the opponent? Especially opponents without a throat? Simply holding them in place, perhaps making them turn as they float slightly like they're in zero gravity does functionally the same thing. Using gravitational pull as a grab is a great idea, though. I love the up and down throw, too, they're really nice moves that fit PlanetMan.EXE.
Thanks for including a Final Smash and Playstyle section. This moveset is one I'd recommend having diagrams for, as some moves you obfuscate with your descriptions due to the amount of things they do, such as the Neutral Special. Using sprites to represent their behavior in relation to PlanetMan.EXE and positioning would be great to better communicate their functions. The same goes for pretty much any attack that has a "ring". A visual representation of how projectiles orbit around PlanetMan.EXE too would be really helpful.
I think the moveset could be improved with less focus on additional effects (the side special has so many different things it can do despite being what would normally be a pretty simple move) and more focus on taking the idea of the orbiting and making simple moves that work elegantly with that. I would have made the planets block projectiles and act as better passive hitboxes with a large risk of losing them if you expended them on moves. A good inspiration for how orbitals are best implemented in any game I've ever played is The Binding of Isaac, where orbitals are good hitboxes that can block attacks but are very high-risk because of the proximity to enemy attacks and the potential for punishment.
I love the various space-themed attacks and the gravity moves in particular. I love Down Special. My least favorite move in the set is probably the Down Smash, because even though it is from PlanetMan.EXE's source material it just does not fit with his overall theme despite being a great move by itself. Cool moveset, US, definitely an enjoyable and easy read with a fun playstyle and wealth of ideas.
CaptainPlanet.EXE
You'll remember I read PlanetMan.EXE's preview essentially to completion, but I do love to reread sets I preview. My opinion on PlanetMan here remains consistant: Not the most top tier set ever, but more than a solid work.
The planet orbitting is a fun mechanic given a good amount of thought to it, giving PlanetMan a pretty unique take on projectile manipulation few sets bolster, although interesting Jupiter utilized a similar idea later in the contest. Something about planets and gravitational pulls, eh? The planets themselves are pretty fun with a variety of attacks which thanks to the nature of the orbit mechanic can be used in a variety of ways, although rereading it the way the Fire Planet shoots in terms of distance made it a bit difficult to parse, and the Green Planet being used with your planets being destroyed is interesting mechanically. Bonus points for being able to go full apocalypse and just wreck them with an asteroid on the Forward Smash!
Side Special and Down Special, then, are a natural extension of the orbitting mechanic and planets. It feels very characteristic and emblematic of your general style, effective and direct yet opening up a myriad of possibilities through how the player applies them. The black hole is particularly fun and I like how you work in a rather unique Rest-style hitbox. It doesn't end up getting a lot of talk since it doesn't have a ton of implications, but I do feel you'd get some pretty hype moments from PlanetMan players going for the risky Rest-style hitbox which adds another dimension to how the set plays.
The Standards continue this philosophy of rather direct moves with a multitude of applications. Dash Attack, for example, certainly has its obvious uses as an attack, but the simple addition of PlanetMan tilting to affect his orbit adds a multitude of options. Up Tilt is a nice sweetspot move considering shorthopping and whatnot is a natural counter to his projectile game and Forward Tilt is pretty fun for a standard projectile that is obviously quite necessary for PlanetMan's game. I will say, however, that Up Tilt's effect with the planets felt a little "extra" and perhaps more suited to another input: It also is kind of awkward that they have their own timer which you need to keep track of since this set has a good amount of things to keep track of to begin with. Down Tilt is fun although I do wonder the logic of making the ring so easily stuffed and Jab is fine but just kinda there.
The smashes are pretty fun, with Forward Smash's apocalypse feeling like a notable fun part. Down Smash is some good stage control that gives PlanetMan some options outside of just projectiles and Up Smash challenges Forward Smash as the best smash for its more complex gameplay both when rising and falling along with some compelling visuals (although it sure sounds laggier than described!). It forms a nice core of stage control between Up Smash and Down Smash.
The ae als did lose me a little and feel like the weakest input section. Compared to the tilts, I felt they lost a bit of the graceful touch the Standards and Specials had. Let me try to explain a little more deeply. Moves in the aerial section feels more like "Well, this is necessary to function, so I better put it in" or "Well, this is in the boss fight, so I should put it in" rather than a natural consequence of the moves, with the shuttle and satelite being logically consistant but feeling a bit just there to give PlanetMan something to orbit. And the Forward Aerial has a pretty fun effect, but I couldn't help but feel it felt a bit awkward for this bigger interaction meteor to appear on the FAir: Hence, again, feeling more like jamming an idea in a bit rather than a more graceful touch. The moves ultimately aren't bad, but I didn't enjoy them as much as the rest of the set.
The throws are solid enough: Forward Throw struck out to me as pretty fun, if perhaps really powerful, the status effects are fine but nothing special, and the Cargo Throw has interesting ramifications with the projectile game and stage control but I don't have much to say about it. It is a solid-if-unspectacular glue game kind of grab game.
Ultimately, I came out of PlanetMan.EXE with a pretty positive opinion: The aerials dragged it down some but it was some creative projectile manipulation that didn't resort to just spamming reflectors and had some pretty fun bits. I do at times wonder about the balance of the set since the orbitting mechanic is strong, but not enough to be a major ding against the set (IE I didn't think it was overpowered, but felt it is on the stronger end/potentially iffy) and the manipulation of it along with solid moves more than makes up to it. I have yet to read Velvet, but at the time of this comment I would call PlanetMan.EXE my favorite of your sets this contest. Good work!
You'll remember I read PlanetMan.EXE's preview essentially to completion, but I do love to reread sets I preview. My opinion on PlanetMan here remains consistant: Not the most top tier set ever, but more than a solid work.
The planet orbitting is a fun mechanic given a good amount of thought to it, giving PlanetMan a pretty unique take on projectile manipulation few sets bolster, although interesting Jupiter utilized a similar idea later in the contest. Something about planets and gravitational pulls, eh? The planets themselves are pretty fun with a variety of attacks which thanks to the nature of the orbit mechanic can be used in a variety of ways, although rereading it the way the Fire Planet shoots in terms of distance made it a bit difficult to parse, and the Green Planet being used with your planets being destroyed is interesting mechanically. Bonus points for being able to go full apocalypse and just wreck them with an asteroid on the Forward Smash!
Side Special and Down Special, then, are a natural extension of the orbitting mechanic and planets. It feels very characteristic and emblematic of your general style, effective and direct yet opening up a myriad of possibilities through how the player applies them. The black hole is particularly fun and I like how you work in a rather unique Rest-style hitbox. It doesn't end up getting a lot of talk since it doesn't have a ton of implications, but I do feel you'd get some pretty hype moments from PlanetMan players going for the risky Rest-style hitbox which adds another dimension to how the set plays.
The Standards continue this philosophy of rather direct moves with a multitude of applications. Dash Attack, for example, certainly has its obvious uses as an attack, but the simple addition of PlanetMan tilting to affect his orbit adds a multitude of options. Up Tilt is a nice sweetspot move considering shorthopping and whatnot is a natural counter to his projectile game and Forward Tilt is pretty fun for a standard projectile that is obviously quite necessary for PlanetMan's game. I will say, however, that Up Tilt's effect with the planets felt a little "extra" and perhaps more suited to another input: It also is kind of awkward that they have their own timer which you need to keep track of since this set has a good amount of things to keep track of to begin with. Down Tilt is fun although I do wonder the logic of making the ring so easily stuffed and Jab is fine but just kinda there.
The smashes are pretty fun, with Forward Smash's apocalypse feeling like a notable fun part. Down Smash is some good stage control that gives PlanetMan some options outside of just projectiles and Up Smash challenges Forward Smash as the best smash for its more complex gameplay both when rising and falling along with some compelling visuals (although it sure sounds laggier than described!). It forms a nice core of stage control between Up Smash and Down Smash.
The ae als did lose me a little and feel like the weakest input section. Compared to the tilts, I felt they lost a bit of the graceful touch the Standards and Specials had. Let me try to explain a little more deeply. Moves in the aerial section feels more like "Well, this is necessary to function, so I better put it in" or "Well, this is in the boss fight, so I should put it in" rather than a natural consequence of the moves, with the shuttle and satelite being logically consistant but feeling a bit just there to give PlanetMan something to orbit. And the Forward Aerial has a pretty fun effect, but I couldn't help but feel it felt a bit awkward for this bigger interaction meteor to appear on the FAir: Hence, again, feeling more like jamming an idea in a bit rather than a more graceful touch. The moves ultimately aren't bad, but I didn't enjoy them as much as the rest of the set.
The throws are solid enough: Forward Throw struck out to me as pretty fun, if perhaps really powerful, the status effects are fine but nothing special, and the Cargo Throw has interesting ramifications with the projectile game and stage control but I don't have much to say about it. It is a solid-if-unspectacular glue game kind of grab game.
Ultimately, I came out of PlanetMan.EXE with a pretty positive opinion: The aerials dragged it down some but it was some creative projectile manipulation that didn't resort to just spamming reflectors and had some pretty fun bits. I do at times wonder about the balance of the set since the orbitting mechanic is strong, but not enough to be a major ding against the set (IE I didn't think it was overpowered, but felt it is on the stronger end/potentially iffy) and the manipulation of it along with solid moves more than makes up to it. I have yet to read Velvet, but at the time of this comment I would call PlanetMan.EXE my favorite of your sets this contest. Good work!
Considering that Sora has at least some description of how the moves look and function here, rat.jpg, I think you're headed in the right direction but don't have quite what you need for a moveset here yet. The set is lacking in key details pretty much all over the place and in some cases the details you do provide are dubious at best and outright broken at worst.
Before I get into what I dislike, I'd like to remark on what I think you do right. You clearly have an appreciation for the character, as you include some flavor text through the alternate costumes and taunts. You also made sure to base the majority of the moveset off of Sora's source material, which is sometimes to the detriment of the moveset. Finally, you also have somewhat of a playstyle in mind with our spiky-haired fellow here as you mention it in nearly every move. Nice job hitting those points.
It isn't quite enough to stabilize the quality of the set, however. The set is written very poorly, with lack of punctuation and run-on sentences marring the set as well as several grammatical and spelling errors. It's not totally unreadable but as this is a writing contest you are expected to have at least a high school-level reading comprehension and enough writing experience to match that.
The set could really use better presentation. Paragraphs-upon-paragraphs of plain text are severely boring to read if there aren't any interesting ideas or writing styles to carry the reader's interest. Lack of color, formatting, and pictures do nothing to earn the set any favors. The down special is especially in need of the enter key. You appear to have an image for Sora at the start of the moveset as well but it's broken, at least for me.
As I mentioned previously, the set has very little detail for all you've written. Attributes of attacks are given to the reader in very vague terms with no hard numbers at all like damage percentages or frames. Ironically when you do provide solid definitions your math ends up either erroneously underpowered (Side Special, Down Special) or overpowered (Neutral Aerial, Down Special). This gives the impression that you were either too scared to write in definitions or wholly ignorant of the numbers and picked them at random.
The last thing the set falters in is the issue of balance. Sora feels intentionally overpowered in some places: the Neutral Aerial can kill at 75%, which is incredibly early for the nature of Smash Ultimate. Compare him to Young Link, for instance, who is also a fast combo character but struggles to kill until around 130%. There is also this vague combo mechanic present on the Smashes that isn't really elaborated on. How many hits in the combo are the cap? What constitutes as a combo and what doesn't? Sora seems to have even more kill confirms and kill options than Yink, and a toolbox down special that makes fighting against Sora a Sisyphean task. Why can he heal 15% whenever he wants to? Why?
Conversely, Sora has some moves that are straight worse than some of his other moves, such as Reflect and Dodge Roll. You also say that Strike Raid is a better Cross, but it doesn't behave at all like the Cross other than its properties as a projectile. Hell, it doesn't even function like Strike Raid from the games, which you tried to do with so many moves. Others also fail to resemble their game counterparts (such as Thunder).
I'm sorry if my perspective was too harsh, but I can tell that you have the potential to make something better than this moveset. Try to read some of the other sets in the contest to get a feel for what the common baseline for a moveset is. You like Kingdom Hearts, why not try reading one of FrozenRoy's excellent Organization XIII movesets linked at the top of the page? If you want more advice, try stopping by the Discord and getting some commentary, where it is handed out very casually.
Before I get into what I dislike, I'd like to remark on what I think you do right. You clearly have an appreciation for the character, as you include some flavor text through the alternate costumes and taunts. You also made sure to base the majority of the moveset off of Sora's source material, which is sometimes to the detriment of the moveset. Finally, you also have somewhat of a playstyle in mind with our spiky-haired fellow here as you mention it in nearly every move. Nice job hitting those points.
It isn't quite enough to stabilize the quality of the set, however. The set is written very poorly, with lack of punctuation and run-on sentences marring the set as well as several grammatical and spelling errors. It's not totally unreadable but as this is a writing contest you are expected to have at least a high school-level reading comprehension and enough writing experience to match that.
The set could really use better presentation. Paragraphs-upon-paragraphs of plain text are severely boring to read if there aren't any interesting ideas or writing styles to carry the reader's interest. Lack of color, formatting, and pictures do nothing to earn the set any favors. The down special is especially in need of the enter key. You appear to have an image for Sora at the start of the moveset as well but it's broken, at least for me.
As I mentioned previously, the set has very little detail for all you've written. Attributes of attacks are given to the reader in very vague terms with no hard numbers at all like damage percentages or frames. Ironically when you do provide solid definitions your math ends up either erroneously underpowered (Side Special, Down Special) or overpowered (Neutral Aerial, Down Special). This gives the impression that you were either too scared to write in definitions or wholly ignorant of the numbers and picked them at random.
The last thing the set falters in is the issue of balance. Sora feels intentionally overpowered in some places: the Neutral Aerial can kill at 75%, which is incredibly early for the nature of Smash Ultimate. Compare him to Young Link, for instance, who is also a fast combo character but struggles to kill until around 130%. There is also this vague combo mechanic present on the Smashes that isn't really elaborated on. How many hits in the combo are the cap? What constitutes as a combo and what doesn't? Sora seems to have even more kill confirms and kill options than Yink, and a toolbox down special that makes fighting against Sora a Sisyphean task. Why can he heal 15% whenever he wants to? Why?
Conversely, Sora has some moves that are straight worse than some of his other moves, such as Reflect and Dodge Roll. You also say that Strike Raid is a better Cross, but it doesn't behave at all like the Cross other than its properties as a projectile. Hell, it doesn't even function like Strike Raid from the games, which you tried to do with so many moves. Others also fail to resemble their game counterparts (such as Thunder).
I'm sorry if my perspective was too harsh, but I can tell that you have the potential to make something better than this moveset. Try to read some of the other sets in the contest to get a feel for what the common baseline for a moveset is. You like Kingdom Hearts, why not try reading one of FrozenRoy's excellent Organization XIII movesets linked at the top of the page? If you want more advice, try stopping by the Discord and getting some commentary, where it is handed out very casually.
Welcome to MYM, Mister Rat! while I know damage and so on can be intimidating, I highly recommend just diving in head-first and going for them: Even if you mess up, you can then get feedback on how you messed up and use that to improve as you go on and ultimately learn and know how to do stuff. You can also take a look at Kuroganehammer's stats for comperable moves and see how they would work: For example, Sora's Down Aerial here reminds me of Marth's Down Aerial, so you could look at the damage of Marth's Down Aerial for an idea of how much damage Sora's DAir should do. Damage and knockback is generally considered important, though knockback can be more generalized (IE "Very high knockback!" or "Moderate knockback for a tilt") while damage is generally expected to be more direct. This is because determining a lot of things about a set is basically impossible without some kind of information like this, so it is frowned upon.
While Smash is no Street Fighter, it should be noted Smash has a good deal of true combos itself, in addition to frame traps and the like. For something like Cure, you have to take into consideration that Sora could simply use it when the foe is away from him, or after knocking the opponent away. In these situations, Sora is getting a huge heal (15% is a moderate strength smash attack's worth of damage or some smaller combos) on a move that is said to be "very quick". So Sora could just throw the opponent away and heal for 15% on every shield + grab or what have you, very powerful and not very fun to fight against! Also, as a general note I would recommend more line breaks in the Down Special and other long moves: It's kind of a messy wall of text to read without that.
The lack of detail hurts in other areas too. For example, I really have no idea how many hits gets Sora's smashes really pumped up, or how far they can go. This is something that would be good to know, like "After X hits, it has the lowest amount of lag, comperable to Whatever Move" for example. I would also say you could make his Side Special into just his normal roll or something, to be honest. In general, giving us more of an idea of how some moves work into an overall playstyle would be nice, as right now the knowledge of most moves is "ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING COMBOS" basically. Also, Killing Edge is fairly big as far as swords go, you might want to tone the range down some (plus I don't think the Kingdom Key is actually that big). Also, you might want to clear up some wording on some of the attacks: The "Parry Attack" for example could read either as hitting A as a jab after a perfect shield or automatically being performed after a perfect shield.
There are some basic tips to help you improve movesetting, I hope they were helpful!
While Smash is no Street Fighter, it should be noted Smash has a good deal of true combos itself, in addition to frame traps and the like. For something like Cure, you have to take into consideration that Sora could simply use it when the foe is away from him, or after knocking the opponent away. In these situations, Sora is getting a huge heal (15% is a moderate strength smash attack's worth of damage or some smaller combos) on a move that is said to be "very quick". So Sora could just throw the opponent away and heal for 15% on every shield + grab or what have you, very powerful and not very fun to fight against! Also, as a general note I would recommend more line breaks in the Down Special and other long moves: It's kind of a messy wall of text to read without that.
The lack of detail hurts in other areas too. For example, I really have no idea how many hits gets Sora's smashes really pumped up, or how far they can go. This is something that would be good to know, like "After X hits, it has the lowest amount of lag, comperable to Whatever Move" for example. I would also say you could make his Side Special into just his normal roll or something, to be honest. In general, giving us more of an idea of how some moves work into an overall playstyle would be nice, as right now the knowledge of most moves is "ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING COMBOS" basically. Also, Killing Edge is fairly big as far as swords go, you might want to tone the range down some (plus I don't think the Kingdom Key is actually that big). Also, you might want to clear up some wording on some of the attacks: The "Parry Attack" for example could read either as hitting A as a jab after a perfect shield or automatically being performed after a perfect shield.
There are some basic tips to help you improve movesetting, I hope they were helpful!
Velvet
As far as melee bolstering gimmicks go, I think the ribbons coming off Velvet's attacks are at least a neat idea to lightly yank the opponent towards you towards your ideal range even if you whiff with the real hit. Of course, the meatiest part of the set comes from the two core projectiles, the rideable platform familiar alongside the more aggressive one, are the set's most interesting part and I actually think they're taken advantage of decently well. The FSmash takes advantage of them quite nicely and they play pretty well with the light dragging effects that abound in the moveset. I also appreciate the counter with multiple throw options, admittedly I don't think it gets the full potential out of the concept but it certainly does provide Velvet a pretty unique tool to make her aggressive game scarier. Its pretty game changing to have the counter give you like 3-6 different options when you're in close range to keep going rather than just the one "knock them far away" that Marth has. I don't really have much to say on the negative, other than something I wouldn't say to most MYMers but I think you're okay with this as criticism: the set gets kind of dull past a certain point. There are definitely highlight moves and moves that I think play out as more interesting in practice than on paper, but the set really is very dry past a point and I couldn't get too invested in the close range brawler playstyle of the set. I think its because the big things that augment it are mostly just to put the opponent there, and once they're actually in close range she just kind of becomes a run of the mill smash combo character. That's not a terrible thing and I'm sure there are people who will be more okay with that than me, but the set struggled to keep me interested and at times it felt like it was getting into wasted potential territory, as I'm sure better things could be done with a counter with a full set of throws in a more ambitious set. That said, the set does nicely get across the character's fighting style and personality, your OC sets always paint a vivid picture of who you're making that makes them more enjoyable to read.
As far as melee bolstering gimmicks go, I think the ribbons coming off Velvet's attacks are at least a neat idea to lightly yank the opponent towards you towards your ideal range even if you whiff with the real hit. Of course, the meatiest part of the set comes from the two core projectiles, the rideable platform familiar alongside the more aggressive one, are the set's most interesting part and I actually think they're taken advantage of decently well. The FSmash takes advantage of them quite nicely and they play pretty well with the light dragging effects that abound in the moveset. I also appreciate the counter with multiple throw options, admittedly I don't think it gets the full potential out of the concept but it certainly does provide Velvet a pretty unique tool to make her aggressive game scarier. Its pretty game changing to have the counter give you like 3-6 different options when you're in close range to keep going rather than just the one "knock them far away" that Marth has. I don't really have much to say on the negative, other than something I wouldn't say to most MYMers but I think you're okay with this as criticism: the set gets kind of dull past a certain point. There are definitely highlight moves and moves that I think play out as more interesting in practice than on paper, but the set really is very dry past a point and I couldn't get too invested in the close range brawler playstyle of the set. I think its because the big things that augment it are mostly just to put the opponent there, and once they're actually in close range she just kind of becomes a run of the mill smash combo character. That's not a terrible thing and I'm sure there are people who will be more okay with that than me, but the set struggled to keep me interested and at times it felt like it was getting into wasted potential territory, as I'm sure better things could be done with a counter with a full set of throws in a more ambitious set. That said, the set does nicely get across the character's fighting style and personality, your OC sets always paint a vivid picture of who you're making that makes them more enjoyable to read.
Roxas! My favorite KH character got his set, hell yeah! I can tell you put a lot of love into this set and you've confirmed you've been working on it for a while, so let's see what we got. I'm simply going to be covering some moves I find stand-out (be that in a good or bad way) and some interesting thoughts I had in regards to him, so take what I say with a grain of salt; this is a bit rambly, instantaneous, and by a newbie.
Firstly, Up Spec seems a bit powerful. In a game genre all about knowing and responding to what an opponent is doing, not being able to see what your opponent is in the middle of is harsh, especially on such a low commitment move. I assume it's quite stuff-able given it has no hitbox and moves slower than Pika's Up Spec, and when Roxas it immediately stops the lens flare, but that isn't mentioned. That, along with being forced to move a set distance before being used along with the briefness of the effect make it balanced enough though, espeically since Roxas does have some decent weaknesses.
Strike Raid is a great move, reminds me of the boomerang item which I like a lot. The ability to cancel any move's endlag would be OP, but with how excellently you have to space and time to actually do so is a fair trade as well, and I like the growing returns each throw gives you, forcing you to pick between the different ways you can pressure your opponent. Do I stay in my Keyblade's path so I can increase it's power and reduce my lag potentially? Or go all out, use the projectile as an approach and strike from a different angle with Roxas' often disjointed and mutli-hit hitboxes? Great dichotomy.
S-Spec and D-Spec are fun moves that compliment the combo-character playstyle and were excellent, flashy shows of power I'm glad were included, but there isn't much to say beyond how they do well in furthering Roxas' game of constant pressure, combos and 50/50s.
I absolutely love Jab, it's a great spin on the concept and makes you and your opponent make deep, split second decisions even on the most basic move for most characters. D-Tilt complements it well-- maybe a bit too well. You can reliably get 25% off Jab at low/mid percents which seems like a lot for a move you can probably cover some of the active frames of with lens flare. Still, both are quite unique, fitting moves and Smash Ult has characters that can deal 70% in one strike so I'm probably overreacting.. Overall I really like how his tilts all have a secondary attack, makes sense considering he's a dual wielder. Would have maybe made F-Filt 1 technically a hitbox, just one that didn't deal damage or knockback but had trample. Might have fit better with the idea you were going for but also could be more OP so I'm unsure. Just a nitpick basically.
I enjoy F-Throw so much but the other throws don't really follow through with the idea of having basically 2 different sets of throws depending on if you have one blade or two. Would have been more work and more to consider as a Roxas player, but with such an excellent tease on the first throw, the rest feel a bit underwhelming to me personally.
Smashes are good, all fill a nice niche but I feel as if the lasers were frankly unnecessary. They seem tacked on, don't really add much to Roxas' playstyle and while they were unique ideas, I feel a set could be more designed around the idea of a secondary, entirely disjointed attack while charging moves rather than implementing them on a combo character who probably will only be using Smashes on hard reads, sans Up Smash which you'll probably use to make landing hell which also doesn't really make the lasers too integral.
Aerials are good, all serve a purpose in a combo whether its to extend with an autocancel, start one up, space while you've just gotten out of someone's combo, or try and catch someone who just got combo'd up into the sky. Nice, fun stuff that really lets us know Roxas is a combo fiend. While I'm iffy on Fair's range (you said it was just 'shorter than his other stuff' and not muh beyond that) thats the only real nit I can pick.
Overall, while you list Roxas as a simple, combo oriented character, I see him as anything but. Roxas players must make constant choices, space excellently, vary their Up Spec play, and use highly risky moves to secure a KO. This, however, is not overwhelming: Roxas does have some more normal options or ones that you can forgo some of the bonus effects or spacing on for more casual play and his set is quite cohesive; all his options make sense and with a bit of ingenuity and mindfulness one can do great things with him, especially with his more obviously good tools. Overall, great set and one I'm very sad isn't in Smash.
Firstly, Up Spec seems a bit powerful. In a game genre all about knowing and responding to what an opponent is doing, not being able to see what your opponent is in the middle of is harsh, especially on such a low commitment move. I assume it's quite stuff-able given it has no hitbox and moves slower than Pika's Up Spec, and when Roxas it immediately stops the lens flare, but that isn't mentioned. That, along with being forced to move a set distance before being used along with the briefness of the effect make it balanced enough though, espeically since Roxas does have some decent weaknesses.
Strike Raid is a great move, reminds me of the boomerang item which I like a lot. The ability to cancel any move's endlag would be OP, but with how excellently you have to space and time to actually do so is a fair trade as well, and I like the growing returns each throw gives you, forcing you to pick between the different ways you can pressure your opponent. Do I stay in my Keyblade's path so I can increase it's power and reduce my lag potentially? Or go all out, use the projectile as an approach and strike from a different angle with Roxas' often disjointed and mutli-hit hitboxes? Great dichotomy.
S-Spec and D-Spec are fun moves that compliment the combo-character playstyle and were excellent, flashy shows of power I'm glad were included, but there isn't much to say beyond how they do well in furthering Roxas' game of constant pressure, combos and 50/50s.
I absolutely love Jab, it's a great spin on the concept and makes you and your opponent make deep, split second decisions even on the most basic move for most characters. D-Tilt complements it well-- maybe a bit too well. You can reliably get 25% off Jab at low/mid percents which seems like a lot for a move you can probably cover some of the active frames of with lens flare. Still, both are quite unique, fitting moves and Smash Ult has characters that can deal 70% in one strike so I'm probably overreacting.. Overall I really like how his tilts all have a secondary attack, makes sense considering he's a dual wielder. Would have maybe made F-Filt 1 technically a hitbox, just one that didn't deal damage or knockback but had trample. Might have fit better with the idea you were going for but also could be more OP so I'm unsure. Just a nitpick basically.
I enjoy F-Throw so much but the other throws don't really follow through with the idea of having basically 2 different sets of throws depending on if you have one blade or two. Would have been more work and more to consider as a Roxas player, but with such an excellent tease on the first throw, the rest feel a bit underwhelming to me personally.
Smashes are good, all fill a nice niche but I feel as if the lasers were frankly unnecessary. They seem tacked on, don't really add much to Roxas' playstyle and while they were unique ideas, I feel a set could be more designed around the idea of a secondary, entirely disjointed attack while charging moves rather than implementing them on a combo character who probably will only be using Smashes on hard reads, sans Up Smash which you'll probably use to make landing hell which also doesn't really make the lasers too integral.
Aerials are good, all serve a purpose in a combo whether its to extend with an autocancel, start one up, space while you've just gotten out of someone's combo, or try and catch someone who just got combo'd up into the sky. Nice, fun stuff that really lets us know Roxas is a combo fiend. While I'm iffy on Fair's range (you said it was just 'shorter than his other stuff' and not muh beyond that) thats the only real nit I can pick.
Overall, while you list Roxas as a simple, combo oriented character, I see him as anything but. Roxas players must make constant choices, space excellently, vary their Up Spec play, and use highly risky moves to secure a KO. This, however, is not overwhelming: Roxas does have some more normal options or ones that you can forgo some of the bonus effects or spacing on for more casual play and his set is quite cohesive; all his options make sense and with a bit of ingenuity and mindfulness one can do great things with him, especially with his more obviously good tools. Overall, great set and one I'm very sad isn't in Smash.
There are a few movesets I want to get to reading soon: Scratch, Chalis, Merasmus, and Velvet, and don't worry, they will have feedback posted next, but I promised Froy a Roxas comment last night and he deserves it, especially after previewing the moveset with me. I've been looking forward to this one, largely due to my rushed and weak Roxas set from the Org. XIII movement. After reading this Roxas, it's safe to say that you've finally done the character some much-needed justice. No tacky menu systems or rushed moves are to be seen here.
Roxas is a bread-and-butter combo character, which authors who write Kingdom Hearts movesets seem to be fixated on due to the playstyle of the games, but that's not a bad thing. Balancing a combo character is a tricky act yet you've done it pretty well. They don't look contrived at all (no generic and unexplained combo mechanics like Arle and Sora) and he has plenty of kill confirms that feel natural and fair. He's not oppressive like Peach, Inkling, or Chrom, but he can hold his own. Balancing kill percentages is the art of the combo, and his strongest kill move only kills at 90%, and is very risky. That's perfectly fair considering characters like Mii Swordfighter have kill confirms at 60%.
Some moves I think are stronger than you claim them to be. Up Aerial, for instance, could reasonably kill way earlier than what you claim when you factor in frame trapping, Strike Raids, and Roxas' floaty nature plus extra jumps. Strike Raid > Up Throw > Down Aerial > Up Aerial seems like an incredibly strong line of play. I've said it before but combo characters benefit from a good playstyle section detailing combo strings. Simply giving the reader the pieces of the combo and expecting them to figure it out doesn't go too well. Fortunately you mentioned several combos or lines of play within various attacks, but I feel like you haven't quite scratched the surface of what combos are possible.
I do like the Up Special, as I've told you before. I like the idea behind it, anyway. It reminds me of some of my own older mindgaming sets like Wiz and Great Tiger, and there are several other great movesets it is vaguely reminiscent of, but it's been so long since them I can't quite place which ones they are. I'm sure several were Warlord's. I would probably dislike playing against it, though. Even minor concealing effects in Ultimate I find very frustrating, such as the smoke from being launched and the smoke on Arena Ferox. Even when I can use them to my advantage, they're still irritating due to how my brain works. I often lose track of characters, especially on moving stages and in Spirit battles where multiple people are getting launched. That's just me personally but other people might share my condition. It's a smart move choice but I don't want it to be detrimental to a gameplay experience, but there's not much you can do about that.
Also, considering the move has average starting lag and at least some end lag, he doesn't disappear, and he moves slower than Pikachu, how gimpable is the Up Special? True, it has good recovery distance and can be covered by the Side Special, but if the opponent can hit Roxas before the end lag's FAF then it doesn't matter that he can attack out of it, or use a second one, or triple jump, or dash. Speaking of Roxas having four jumps, there's no presentable justification for Roxas having multiple jumps beyond his playstyle. He can't puff up into a balloon like Kirby, Jigglypuff, or King Dedede, and he doesn't have wings like Meta Knight, Charizard, or Ridley. The player who has no knowledge of Kingdom Hearts would look at Roxas and wonder why he has the ability to extend his aerial jumps, just from appearance alone. I like lightweights having good recovery but as floaty and higher-middleweight as Roxas is, he might have too good of a recovery if the Up Special isn't punishable.
Just as we used to talk about damage and range in relative and vague descriptors but now use harder units of measurements like exact percents and decimal percentages of Battlefield platforms, I think there will be a day when every MYM set refers to lag in exacting frame data to shore up any confusion. You switch up between frame data (3 frames) and relative descriptors (somewhat laggy, punishable, drastically reduced lag), and in the case of the Neutral Special do it in the same move. It gets especially confusing when you combine the two: "The keyblade teleporting to Roxas adds a few frames, about 3, of starting lag to whatever move he is using." If you're using exact frame data, I wouldn't proceed it with "a few" or "about". Furthermore, using so many variable descriptors to describe the same move muddles the reader's perception of what the lag means in relative terms.
Speaking of, an important property you left out on the Neutral Special is how fast the keyblade travels. You got distance and lag down but I don't know if it moves really fast so you can chain together Strike Raid tosses and combos or really slow to control the stage and set up some of his laggier moves? If the move's faster it would be much stronger, so it's necessary to know this to judge Roxas' overall strength. Furthermore, if Roxas cancels an Up Special dash by catching the keyblade, does he still get the lens flare? What happens if Roxas dodges the Keyblade on the return trip, or just moves from the spot it was headed for? Does it behave like Link's boomerang, does it disappear, or just go flying into oblivion? When you mention that the first hit deals knockback in the direction of it, I assume you mean the keyblade's hitbox, as in the opponent is knocked in the direction the Keyblade was relative to their hurtbox when they got hit. If not, does that mean the hitbox knocks them in the direction its traveling, meaning it can possibly chain initial hits of 8% and light-moderate knockback, depending on the foe?
I don't know what you mean by "tech situations" in some move descriptions, like the Down Tilt and Down Throw. Do you mean the opponent teching, or Roxas? Chalk it up to me not being that familiar with advanced Smash mechanics. Luckily you do a good job of explaining the subtleties of other aspects of Smash to the reader who might not be as familiar with them. Some of the moves are missing details, like the range of the keyblade, especially Neutral Special and Forward Smash. I'd normally say that you could remedy this with a relative comparison in the statistics description but Roxas has so many unconventional hitbox animations that I'd just go ahead and write it on every attack that uses a keyblade. Some attacks are also missing other types of range descriptions, like Forward Throw's throw distance and the amount of ground Dash Attack covers.
I'd also like to know exactly what spot landing from the air with side special cancels the ending lag with. Just saying there is a spot you can land on isn't quite as informative as describing where that spot is. You mention Roxas can punish a shielded Side Special with a grab, but unless the shield blocks the entire dash I don't think this is possible. Roxas would be facing away from the opponent when the move ends, so he'd have to turn around and grab. Even if that isn't the case and Roxas is stopped in his tracks by a shield, the bad ending lag and very little shieldstun it does means the opponent has a frame advantage over Roxas unless Roxas' grab is the fastest in the game. Link's new grab has 6 frames of lag and it's like the second-fastest in the game.
As for the rest of my complaints, it would be helpful to know how strong the knockback is on the hits of the Down Aerial. If you can combo Down Aerial into an Up Smash while factoring the lag into the moves, I can only imagine it does high upwards knockback. Why do the light rays on Forward Smash do 4% but the others do 6.5%? How can he have a Strike Raid Keyblade out if the move animation is dependent on him having two Keyblades in hand? How do you do a two-Keyblade attack with this throw if his grab animation forces him into a single-Keyblade state? I assume it's like his other throw where he resummons the Keyblade for it. Why, on the Forward Aerial, is the ending lag is "too long to combo" but Roxas ends up with small frame advantage- I thought that frame advantage is what combos are all about? And why does the Up Smash's sour spot only kill before 200%? Lastly, if Roxas does another Side Special before the first Side Special's light wound erupts, does it stack another one?
That's quite a lot of questions and concerns, so you might think my view of the set is pretty negative, but I actually quite like it outside of them. Combo characters are a dime a dozen but you pull it off well with Roxas. The attacks are flashy but functional and everything fits Roxas, likely due to your heavy reference of his boss fight. You did this in the other Organization sets as well, so you've got this formula nailed down. The Up Special's function is very clever and fitting, and I love me some mindgames. Strike Raid is a brilliant move with a myriad of applications that I can see applying seamlessly to Roxas' combo game. Nothing sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of the idea behind the move, even the throws which some may call generic. A strong grab game is an essential part of a combo character that many overlook, but you know exactly what it's for and why.
The smashes may be the flashiest moves but it's the light attacks in his kit that draw me in. The directional aerials, the Jab, and of course his tilts make for a compelling neutral game. Having the tilts deal two hits and be led into from the jab combo is pretty brilliant. One of the most clever way to mix up your ground combos that I've seen. The reason I'm not that fond of the smashes is because they seem like too much. Just thinking about Down Smash's hitbox, for instance, it's huge. I do understand you wanted to work in as much from his source as possible, but perhaps these could have been handled differently. I know it's heresy, but several of them send light beams to the background and foreground. Perhaps you could have made them hit people rolling? It would have added to his punishing options and prediction game.
Overall, Roxas is a great moveset. It's mechanically sound and tighter outside of what I pointed out, and those can easily be fixed. Ulrich is a much deeper set due to its nature but I found myself enjoying Roxas more ironically due to the simpler nature of it. It's easy to understand what Roxas does, and everything is cohesive. There's very little fat here, everything feels essential to his plan. Most importantly, it feels like a Smash moveset. Roxas is right for this era of MYM: the moveset is simple enough for a wide audience, including casuals; it's tight and competent enough to interest competitive players; and it services people who love his character due to taking heavy inspiration from his awesome boss fight. Well done, Froy. Consider my critique and I look forward to your feedback later.
With Legs Like These, Who Needs Arms?
8/10
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Poliwag isn't the most complex set this MYM, but it FEELS very in-Smash. In fact, of all characters, Poliwag reminds me of Chrom, in that it's something of a patchwork of concepts from other characters woven into a new whole. Poliwag has variations on Incineroar's Revenge gimmick, Greninja's recovery, Inkling's ground coverage mechanic, K Rool's belly armor, Squirtle's Water Gun and USmash, the traditional heavyweight stall-and-fall, Dedede's D-Tilt... and it weaves all that into a set that revolves around clever use of a couple of major mechanics (Belly Drum and Hydro Pump's water) to make up for lackluster stats. It FEELS like Pichu in a way, a set that could be handwaved as a handicap or outright joke character, but has the potential to actually be quite competent if played well. Definitely a fun little set to mark the beginning of a new year for MYM.8/10
Belly Drum is a brilliant centerpiece in my opinion, with fun characterization and a sort of "soft" function that beefs up Poliwag in small but meaningful ways. It's also fun to see a twist on K. Rool's belly armor utilized in MYM already! The water interactions are similarly subtle but useful in a very pleasantly In-Smash way. All in all, a well done set. Nice work!
Well, here's a long time favorite Pokemon of mine! Oddly enough, though, I don't think I've ever used it on my team. Makes me want to go back and rectify that.
Anywho, Poliwag gets good milage out of only 5500-ish words, and in particular demonstrating some interesting soft and hard interactions between its Belly Drum counter/buff and the water left behind by Hydro Pump, respectively- buffing a category of moves with the former with a uniform damage increase and granting case by case benefits/buffs to certain water inputs with the latter. I've always leaned more towards the former for the sake of being easier for a player to figure out and work off of, but the latter can lead to some spectacularly interesting combinations, and tying them to a simple condition keeps them from being too oddball in Poliwag's case.
I feel Poliwag makes for a good read for people interested in joining MYM or polishing up their sets for those reasons; it succinctly demonstrates different types of interactions, and how to properly tie them to practical uses like protecting Poliwag from punishment during its ending lag, or increasing the range of its attacks. It also shows how moves play into each other organically, Bubble creating some nice slow-moving projectiles that can cover the otherwise not too nimble Poliwag on approach or when using its more vulnerable attacks.
That said, while it does its job and makes good use of its central concepts, Poliwag loses some steam at the Aerials and Throws sections. They're all perfectly serviceable inputs and have their own proper niches, even giving him a defined way of playing in the air, but most of them didn't really stand out to me beyond that. Down Aerial and Back Throw are probably my favorites of the lot, with the others having nice interplay for mix-ups, or catching the opponent in your setup, but not tying into the core as much. They're good, just not as attention-grabbing as what came before them.
Poliwag is a set that does more with less, and is a prime example of how to follow that design philosophy. It's a light read worth everyone's time to look over.
Anywho, Poliwag gets good milage out of only 5500-ish words, and in particular demonstrating some interesting soft and hard interactions between its Belly Drum counter/buff and the water left behind by Hydro Pump, respectively- buffing a category of moves with the former with a uniform damage increase and granting case by case benefits/buffs to certain water inputs with the latter. I've always leaned more towards the former for the sake of being easier for a player to figure out and work off of, but the latter can lead to some spectacularly interesting combinations, and tying them to a simple condition keeps them from being too oddball in Poliwag's case.
I feel Poliwag makes for a good read for people interested in joining MYM or polishing up their sets for those reasons; it succinctly demonstrates different types of interactions, and how to properly tie them to practical uses like protecting Poliwag from punishment during its ending lag, or increasing the range of its attacks. It also shows how moves play into each other organically, Bubble creating some nice slow-moving projectiles that can cover the otherwise not too nimble Poliwag on approach or when using its more vulnerable attacks.
That said, while it does its job and makes good use of its central concepts, Poliwag loses some steam at the Aerials and Throws sections. They're all perfectly serviceable inputs and have their own proper niches, even giving him a defined way of playing in the air, but most of them didn't really stand out to me beyond that. Down Aerial and Back Throw are probably my favorites of the lot, with the others having nice interplay for mix-ups, or catching the opponent in your setup, but not tying into the core as much. They're good, just not as attention-grabbing as what came before them.
Poliwag is a set that does more with less, and is a prime example of how to follow that design philosophy. It's a light read worth everyone's time to look over.
Oh, hai Mark
The Bounty Hunter's marking mechanic is perfectly fine. It is correct to be careful around the 1.5x damage boost since it is quite large, but for the most part The Bounty Hunter does it well. Marking an opponent and then collecting the mark with a big attack pretty much fits the Bounty Hunter to a T in my limited play experience with them in DD, so that's good. And I would say you do solid stuff with it: Come Hither is again pretty fitting of the flavor of the original while also serving as a move to get the opponent in close for you, making a kind of poking almost Belmont-esque playstyle with the chain moves plays into the set not only by giving the Bounty Hunter a reasonable playstyle outside of the Mark but because this poking zoning tools can potentially "waste" the mark and thus give the Bounty Hunter more incentive to go in which is nice, and the way that the Bounty Hunter uses them to open up his grabs are all good stuff.
In general my favorite moves in that regard are the Up Tilt (I like it having a niche use that can hurt him with misuse as well), Down Tilt (Although I feel this should be a more pure combo move), Neutral Aerial, the grab + B-Throw and D-Throw, Side Special of course like I mentioned is good too. In some cases, I do feel like the moves could use some expositing, as there could be interesting application to combos in some spots. For a basic example that can apply to most any character, considering if they can end a combo with the opponent high in the air or close in the ground or if there is a combo good for carrying the opponent off stage and effectively communicating that to the reader. Having none of those is not a problem, especially since The Bounty Hunter is meant to be a low combo character, but it is general advice that helps add to combo moves.
I would also say the Bounty Hunter has an additional possibility combo-wise: Combos that can either end in a finishing hit OR by using the Mark to prepare for a hopeful (but non-confirming) finishing blow or what have you. This is especially true for any combo strings which would have a low damage finisher, as Marking the opponent for the 1.5x on the next blow may be worth more than a 6% damage finisher. In general combos would be a clever way to balance the Mark since they mean the "stronger" blow doesn't get a 1.5x boost from a Marked foe, save the Side Special of course, and so can allow a way to get the Bounty Hunter to a stronger blow without worrying as much about if it'd be too potent due to the Mark.
While the Bounty Hunter has good marks, it is also certainly not without flaws, so let me go over some: Up Throw's numbers simply do not work, a 150% killing throw dealing 1.5x damage won't just kill at 130%, it'd probably be closer to 100%. The entire Up Throw is completely redundant with Forward Throw it feels, as Forward Throw deals more damage and kills earlier with a mark anyway. I would make the initial KO percent higher if you want to kill at 130% or even completely re-do the throw if you get any ideas. Forward Smash is fun in concept but I feel like it goes a bit too far in not being safe on Marked targets: In my opinion, Forward Smash SHOULD ve safe on shield when the opponent is Marked and thus able to be used as a heavy threatening move that the opponent CAN shield but gets nothing off of and in general which forces the opponent to want to take different playstyle options. And then you can go into how the Bounty Hunter can take advantage of the opponent's other options, like catching out rolls with Side Special and just putting them right back into a horrible situation.
Dash Attack should go into more detail about how "This move is built to help BH to get in on an enemy and start using his more close ranged attacks like his aerials or F-Tilt." Is it just for movement in and it has really short ending lag, or does it combo into them? Personally I think this Dash Attack would be a good place to put another combo starter (still with the armor etc on it) and would help open up the Bounty Hunter's gameplan some. Down Special being out for only one frame seems kinda odd for that type of attack, although given there are one frame attacks for sure it is hardly WRONG per se, and as a smaller nitpick I feel like the Up Special might be a bit TOO bad for him. The Belmont's Up Special is 6.5 grids of vertical height with 2.5 blocks of horizontal movement (from stats I saw), which means this move is significantly worse than Belmont's Up Special which is already hot trash. I would add 1 grid of vertical movement and 0.5 grids of horizontal movement as a thought.
This one isn't a "problem" per se but a personal suggestion: I would make the Caltrops stay out as a trap once their duration ends rather than just disappearing, as I feel a basic trap could help the Bounty Hunter's overall strategy. An attack which could set the opponent up WITHOUT using up the Mark aside from the Side Special is helpful and it would grant the Bounty Hunter some true stage control that he can then take advantage of with his higher range attacks. It could be a simple light pop-up attack, or perhaps it trips opponents if they're moving over them on the ground?
Overall I left the Bounty Hunter with a slight positive impression, but I felt the Deltatrio did more with their concept and were generally a bit more of an interesting set. Still it's an enjoyable set, so good work!
The Bounty Hunter's marking mechanic is perfectly fine. It is correct to be careful around the 1.5x damage boost since it is quite large, but for the most part The Bounty Hunter does it well. Marking an opponent and then collecting the mark with a big attack pretty much fits the Bounty Hunter to a T in my limited play experience with them in DD, so that's good. And I would say you do solid stuff with it: Come Hither is again pretty fitting of the flavor of the original while also serving as a move to get the opponent in close for you, making a kind of poking almost Belmont-esque playstyle with the chain moves plays into the set not only by giving the Bounty Hunter a reasonable playstyle outside of the Mark but because this poking zoning tools can potentially "waste" the mark and thus give the Bounty Hunter more incentive to go in which is nice, and the way that the Bounty Hunter uses them to open up his grabs are all good stuff.
In general my favorite moves in that regard are the Up Tilt (I like it having a niche use that can hurt him with misuse as well), Down Tilt (Although I feel this should be a more pure combo move), Neutral Aerial, the grab + B-Throw and D-Throw, Side Special of course like I mentioned is good too. In some cases, I do feel like the moves could use some expositing, as there could be interesting application to combos in some spots. For a basic example that can apply to most any character, considering if they can end a combo with the opponent high in the air or close in the ground or if there is a combo good for carrying the opponent off stage and effectively communicating that to the reader. Having none of those is not a problem, especially since The Bounty Hunter is meant to be a low combo character, but it is general advice that helps add to combo moves.
I would also say the Bounty Hunter has an additional possibility combo-wise: Combos that can either end in a finishing hit OR by using the Mark to prepare for a hopeful (but non-confirming) finishing blow or what have you. This is especially true for any combo strings which would have a low damage finisher, as Marking the opponent for the 1.5x on the next blow may be worth more than a 6% damage finisher. In general combos would be a clever way to balance the Mark since they mean the "stronger" blow doesn't get a 1.5x boost from a Marked foe, save the Side Special of course, and so can allow a way to get the Bounty Hunter to a stronger blow without worrying as much about if it'd be too potent due to the Mark.
While the Bounty Hunter has good marks, it is also certainly not without flaws, so let me go over some: Up Throw's numbers simply do not work, a 150% killing throw dealing 1.5x damage won't just kill at 130%, it'd probably be closer to 100%. The entire Up Throw is completely redundant with Forward Throw it feels, as Forward Throw deals more damage and kills earlier with a mark anyway. I would make the initial KO percent higher if you want to kill at 130% or even completely re-do the throw if you get any ideas. Forward Smash is fun in concept but I feel like it goes a bit too far in not being safe on Marked targets: In my opinion, Forward Smash SHOULD ve safe on shield when the opponent is Marked and thus able to be used as a heavy threatening move that the opponent CAN shield but gets nothing off of and in general which forces the opponent to want to take different playstyle options. And then you can go into how the Bounty Hunter can take advantage of the opponent's other options, like catching out rolls with Side Special and just putting them right back into a horrible situation.
Dash Attack should go into more detail about how "This move is built to help BH to get in on an enemy and start using his more close ranged attacks like his aerials or F-Tilt." Is it just for movement in and it has really short ending lag, or does it combo into them? Personally I think this Dash Attack would be a good place to put another combo starter (still with the armor etc on it) and would help open up the Bounty Hunter's gameplan some. Down Special being out for only one frame seems kinda odd for that type of attack, although given there are one frame attacks for sure it is hardly WRONG per se, and as a smaller nitpick I feel like the Up Special might be a bit TOO bad for him. The Belmont's Up Special is 6.5 grids of vertical height with 2.5 blocks of horizontal movement (from stats I saw), which means this move is significantly worse than Belmont's Up Special which is already hot trash. I would add 1 grid of vertical movement and 0.5 grids of horizontal movement as a thought.
This one isn't a "problem" per se but a personal suggestion: I would make the Caltrops stay out as a trap once their duration ends rather than just disappearing, as I feel a basic trap could help the Bounty Hunter's overall strategy. An attack which could set the opponent up WITHOUT using up the Mark aside from the Side Special is helpful and it would grant the Bounty Hunter some true stage control that he can then take advantage of with his higher range attacks. It could be a simple light pop-up attack, or perhaps it trips opponents if they're moving over them on the ground?
Overall I left the Bounty Hunter with a slight positive impression, but I felt the Deltatrio did more with their concept and were generally a bit more of an interesting set. Still it's an enjoyable set, so good work!
An interesting character choice from an interesting game! I'm assuming 'grid' refers to a Training Stage Unit (one of the boxes made of a 5x5 grid of smaller boxes, roughly Kirby-sized, 3.2 Units wide = 1 Battlefield platform)? Make sure to define a measurement term such as this for the first mention of it in the set. Another good reference point for reach in this case is the Belmont whip covers almost exactly 4 Units.
Off the bat, I'd recommend you give some visual indicator of someone being marked. Knowing he's landed the Mark will help keep BH from accidentally wasting it or trying to apply it again when it's already there, and it adds to the pressure on his opponents if they know it's on. This would also help hypothetical players trying him out to know what it does. Make sure to note whether knockback is increased with damage buff, since 1.5x damage is a big buff to knockback by association.
I like the ways he can bait shield and play off of it in general; scoring a free buff, poking below, chipping away at the foe, etc. He feels very much as you describe in his playstyle section, fighting carefully to exploit weaknesses and avoid being put on the backfoot.
That said, his inputs get a bit bland past the specials; they don't need to be especially flashy, indeed they've already got some neat visuals here and there. When working with simple moves, one way to add depth is to consider attack strings, how well they play into other inputs, etc. If an input doesn't seem to work well into any other (either for combo, cross up, etc) or fill a niche not covered by others, it might need some small added quality or tweak to it.
Talking about how it gels with the set's core concepts (in this case how useful they are with Mark, or poking the foe behind their shield) is a good option, and I see some of the inputs doing that already. Down Throw creating a situation where Bounty Hunter's reach gives him a very strong edge is an example of what I'd like to see more of. Forward Smash (though a bit extreme on the balance side of things) is another, working off of all the shield bait, and Down Smash providing openings and contributing to his stage control options.
I wish I could offer something better to work with than just "more", but I feel that's the crux of the matter for how to improve upon Bounty Hunter. It feels like there could stand to be one other twist or aspect to the set's core, or a little touch of something else on the other inputs, possibly both. There's nothing wrong with what Bounty Hunter has now that really needs fixed aside from the touches I mentioned regarding his Neutral Special.
As a side note, priority is in almost every case connected to an input's damage. I only saw a mention of it in Up Smash and it wasn't really misused in the way it was mentioned that I can tell, but saying that for postery's sake is something I'm compelled to do given how old MYM really did not grasp that.
Off the bat, I'd recommend you give some visual indicator of someone being marked. Knowing he's landed the Mark will help keep BH from accidentally wasting it or trying to apply it again when it's already there, and it adds to the pressure on his opponents if they know it's on. This would also help hypothetical players trying him out to know what it does. Make sure to note whether knockback is increased with damage buff, since 1.5x damage is a big buff to knockback by association.
I like the ways he can bait shield and play off of it in general; scoring a free buff, poking below, chipping away at the foe, etc. He feels very much as you describe in his playstyle section, fighting carefully to exploit weaknesses and avoid being put on the backfoot.
That said, his inputs get a bit bland past the specials; they don't need to be especially flashy, indeed they've already got some neat visuals here and there. When working with simple moves, one way to add depth is to consider attack strings, how well they play into other inputs, etc. If an input doesn't seem to work well into any other (either for combo, cross up, etc) or fill a niche not covered by others, it might need some small added quality or tweak to it.
Talking about how it gels with the set's core concepts (in this case how useful they are with Mark, or poking the foe behind their shield) is a good option, and I see some of the inputs doing that already. Down Throw creating a situation where Bounty Hunter's reach gives him a very strong edge is an example of what I'd like to see more of. Forward Smash (though a bit extreme on the balance side of things) is another, working off of all the shield bait, and Down Smash providing openings and contributing to his stage control options.
I wish I could offer something better to work with than just "more", but I feel that's the crux of the matter for how to improve upon Bounty Hunter. It feels like there could stand to be one other twist or aspect to the set's core, or a little touch of something else on the other inputs, possibly both. There's nothing wrong with what Bounty Hunter has now that really needs fixed aside from the touches I mentioned regarding his Neutral Special.
As a side note, priority is in almost every case connected to an input's damage. I only saw a mention of it in Up Smash and it wasn't really misused in the way it was mentioned that I can tell, but saying that for postery's sake is something I'm compelled to do given how old MYM really did not grasp that.
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Simian Mirror
Simirror is a pretty interesting concept and is a good step in showing you evolve from the days of Blupi. Not related to the set quality, but the choice of character amused me, as I mostly remember Simirror for Rool caling Agi's totally ancient Simirror moveset "an important step in MYM's evolution".
Simirror's concept is interesting! In fact, it is one of the better uses of a reflection-clone for a moveset I can remember seeing: The method to create it is intuitive, it works in a more easy to understand way than most I see that are still intuitive, and I feel like Simirror really sells harder on going in on the concept than some others even if it has less interactions. Side Special, I feel, was also a pretty interesting addition to the clone game and how it works better with it, and the use of momentum to aim it is a kind of unique take on this kind of move that sounds like it could be fun to utilize in practice. Stuff like this forms the strongest core of Simirror. Something I will note: Simirror swapping positions with his clones probably should not be "laglessly" swapped. Leaving aside that this could cause some real issues with combos, Simirror's clone can absolutely be used for recovery in this manner and perhaps is too good in that regard.
The amount of reflectors will probably earn some detractors, but most seem commital or not the easiest to land in range, so I am not too plussed...however, the set would be vastly improved if Simirror had some way to utilize the reflectors himself. Not every opponent has a projectile and just trying to refute/invalidate it isn't really inherently interesting itself.
I, personally, would add a projectile to Simirror's set, the first place that comes to mind is Forward Smash. Make the projectile reflectable and now Simirror has some really interesting options to play projectile tennis with his reflectors by allowing them to reflect it! Then you add in your clone to shoot out a second one and you can get real trickt with how they mix the foe up, you and your clone bouncing around different projectiles, whatever. Just limit it to 2 projectiles (1 for Simirror, 1 for the clone) IMO and it's fine. I would go for a slower projectile as well: It offers more stage control, which I think is better for the set's playstyle, and would make it easier for Simirror to have some leeway in reflecting it.
This set does suffer from some other issues. While Down Throw is cheeky, the grab game felt rather uninspired for what Simirror is potentially capable of and like it could have taken advantage of having a reflection clone out more. I feel like moves like Back Aerial may want to list a KO when they're prime kill moves, or at least compare it to some other KO move or something. The aerials/standards are servicable, but they definitely could potentially be punched up in more interesting way, although they don't particularly hold the set back.
Overall, Simirror sits outside of my quality of "good", but I feel like adding on some kind of projectile that can work with Simirror's projectile would help boost it into a potential vote, and it feels like it is at least on the cusp of solid rather than bad. It relies heavily on the concept but it pulls off the base concept fairly well. It, if nothing else, certainly gives me interest in what you're going to do in future movesets!
Simirror is a pretty interesting concept and is a good step in showing you evolve from the days of Blupi. Not related to the set quality, but the choice of character amused me, as I mostly remember Simirror for Rool caling Agi's totally ancient Simirror moveset "an important step in MYM's evolution".
Simirror's concept is interesting! In fact, it is one of the better uses of a reflection-clone for a moveset I can remember seeing: The method to create it is intuitive, it works in a more easy to understand way than most I see that are still intuitive, and I feel like Simirror really sells harder on going in on the concept than some others even if it has less interactions. Side Special, I feel, was also a pretty interesting addition to the clone game and how it works better with it, and the use of momentum to aim it is a kind of unique take on this kind of move that sounds like it could be fun to utilize in practice. Stuff like this forms the strongest core of Simirror. Something I will note: Simirror swapping positions with his clones probably should not be "laglessly" swapped. Leaving aside that this could cause some real issues with combos, Simirror's clone can absolutely be used for recovery in this manner and perhaps is too good in that regard.
The amount of reflectors will probably earn some detractors, but most seem commital or not the easiest to land in range, so I am not too plussed...however, the set would be vastly improved if Simirror had some way to utilize the reflectors himself. Not every opponent has a projectile and just trying to refute/invalidate it isn't really inherently interesting itself.
I, personally, would add a projectile to Simirror's set, the first place that comes to mind is Forward Smash. Make the projectile reflectable and now Simirror has some really interesting options to play projectile tennis with his reflectors by allowing them to reflect it! Then you add in your clone to shoot out a second one and you can get real trickt with how they mix the foe up, you and your clone bouncing around different projectiles, whatever. Just limit it to 2 projectiles (1 for Simirror, 1 for the clone) IMO and it's fine. I would go for a slower projectile as well: It offers more stage control, which I think is better for the set's playstyle, and would make it easier for Simirror to have some leeway in reflecting it.
This set does suffer from some other issues. While Down Throw is cheeky, the grab game felt rather uninspired for what Simirror is potentially capable of and like it could have taken advantage of having a reflection clone out more. I feel like moves like Back Aerial may want to list a KO when they're prime kill moves, or at least compare it to some other KO move or something. The aerials/standards are servicable, but they definitely could potentially be punched up in more interesting way, although they don't particularly hold the set back.
Overall, Simirror sits outside of my quality of "good", but I feel like adding on some kind of projectile that can work with Simirror's projectile would help boost it into a potential vote, and it feels like it is at least on the cusp of solid rather than bad. It relies heavily on the concept but it pulls off the base concept fairly well. It, if nothing else, certainly gives me interest in what you're going to do in future movesets!
Simirror
Simirror's core actually feels really inspired, I can actually see why you thought it was your best when you posted it. Simirror's duplicate is really well designed, serving as a very intuitive feeling way to, pretty simply, just throw out two hitboxes at once. It of course has the problem of having a second hurtbox out as well, actually feeling very fair, and I did think it was an interesting idea to mess with using it on the foe as was explored in Down Throw. While the attack animations the set has do at least feel neat with having Simirror multiplying his body from multiple points to attack, I was on the whole a little disappointed by the way it was used. You don't really make an attack that feels specialized to dealing with two foes at once, or one that feels especially interesting with the foe between two copies of the hitbox. I mean, yeah Simirror can get some mileage out of the attacks you gave him for this, but I'd sort of hope for a more specialized kit to play off the advantages of splitting up your hitboxes and hurtboxes like this because it offers a ton of potential for interesting melee and projectile options.
Speaking of projectile options, the main idea Simirror has is reflecting projectiles back and forth between the two copies. This is, for what its worth, actually cool as a basis and I think it'd be a fine starting point even if I would like more out of the melee. There's a really big problem with this, and its the fact that Simirror straight up does not have his own projectiles. Instead, you're going to have to rely on the ones the foe gives you for the myriad of reflector moves the set has. It strikes me as kind of silly and redundant to have so many reflectors, and as an aside some of them leave Simirror in a move's duration for way too long to ever serve as a reasonable tilt, begging to be punished by a foe using their non-projectile options with their 45 frame or full second durations. While I don't like how ridiculously hard long lasting reflectors shut down projectiles, I know Fox's reflector exists as a precedent for it in Smash but I never considered Fox's reflector a remotely fair way to handle projectiles and at least he only has it on one input. That said, with how hilariously punishable you've made a large portion of his melee game just to counter projectiles, I'm pretty sure even the most projectile heavy characters in Smash and modern MYM can shrug off losing access to their projectiles to just punish Simirror when in neutral he can barely use his tilts at all. The reflectors are just really not handled well at all, but above all else it would be the first step to allowing Simirror to coherently use the options you gave him to give him his own projectile to reflect back and forth. As is, this is a set with a genuinely great concept squandered by not flowing into it and some incredibly wonky uses of reflectors.
Simirror's core actually feels really inspired, I can actually see why you thought it was your best when you posted it. Simirror's duplicate is really well designed, serving as a very intuitive feeling way to, pretty simply, just throw out two hitboxes at once. It of course has the problem of having a second hurtbox out as well, actually feeling very fair, and I did think it was an interesting idea to mess with using it on the foe as was explored in Down Throw. While the attack animations the set has do at least feel neat with having Simirror multiplying his body from multiple points to attack, I was on the whole a little disappointed by the way it was used. You don't really make an attack that feels specialized to dealing with two foes at once, or one that feels especially interesting with the foe between two copies of the hitbox. I mean, yeah Simirror can get some mileage out of the attacks you gave him for this, but I'd sort of hope for a more specialized kit to play off the advantages of splitting up your hitboxes and hurtboxes like this because it offers a ton of potential for interesting melee and projectile options.
Speaking of projectile options, the main idea Simirror has is reflecting projectiles back and forth between the two copies. This is, for what its worth, actually cool as a basis and I think it'd be a fine starting point even if I would like more out of the melee. There's a really big problem with this, and its the fact that Simirror straight up does not have his own projectiles. Instead, you're going to have to rely on the ones the foe gives you for the myriad of reflector moves the set has. It strikes me as kind of silly and redundant to have so many reflectors, and as an aside some of them leave Simirror in a move's duration for way too long to ever serve as a reasonable tilt, begging to be punished by a foe using their non-projectile options with their 45 frame or full second durations. While I don't like how ridiculously hard long lasting reflectors shut down projectiles, I know Fox's reflector exists as a precedent for it in Smash but I never considered Fox's reflector a remotely fair way to handle projectiles and at least he only has it on one input. That said, with how hilariously punishable you've made a large portion of his melee game just to counter projectiles, I'm pretty sure even the most projectile heavy characters in Smash and modern MYM can shrug off losing access to their projectiles to just punish Simirror when in neutral he can barely use his tilts at all. The reflectors are just really not handled well at all, but above all else it would be the first step to allowing Simirror to coherently use the options you gave him to give him his own projectile to reflect back and forth. As is, this is a set with a genuinely great concept squandered by not flowing into it and some incredibly wonky uses of reflectors.
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Another XC2 character even though everyone in the chat hates that game, interesting. I certainly appreciate more Xenoblade stuff, no matter which game it comes from, and the Affinity system has a very strong base as a smash concept, which I see you've used here. But I'm getting ahead of myself, let's start the moveset. I'm new to this whole comment thing so as before, I'm just going to list what I find interesting, be it good bad or hard to understand.
So, first off, I believe what you refer to as gridsquares are grids. I'm not 100% sure on that, but those in chat seemed to be in agreement and you confirmed that you meant the larger training mode stage blocks. That's good, I feel that's a pretty fair distance, but Affinity diminishes too quickly once you leave that 3 grid space (1% a frame means spending even a second away from Brigihd means you've lost more than half a full tank of affinity.) Also, uses for Affinity besides the minor buff you get for having it at 100% aren't mentioned in this dedicated section, which seems odd. One final thing to bring up here is that while its mentioned in S-Spec that Affinity Range increases with each special performed, stuff like that, I feel, should be mentioned in the Affinity section.
Side Spec is alright, I feel like damage that only does 10% isn't exactly frightening, but that's simply a nitpick to a pretty cool move. A hybrid frame trap/combo starter move is very interesting, especially considering you don't even have to be the one performing it, Brighid can. The aerial version also fits and makes sense, I can see Morag mains performing some sick edge guards with it.
An issue I have with Up Spec though, is if you use the grounded variant you don't actually GO anywhere, despite the secondary trap effect mentioning the flames always trail your movement during the move. It also goes almost nowhere, less than even Belmont's U-Spec, can you combine the Brighid version with your side spec? Also, I feel as if these specials are quite weak in terms of damage, I'd buff them all at least 3% even though the kill percents seem entirely fine.
D-Spec is where I got confused and… you seemed to as well, at least in the chat. Over all things need to be better explained and less wrapped into the move explanation when talking about mechanics unique to Morag. Sharing you sword with Brighid forces both of you to perform the move, while passing both swords just makes Brighid do it. This is only explained in the latter half of one move, and is kind of hard to parse at that. I'd make a third paragraph in affinity that explains these concepts, as well as what a "Blade Special" is instead of leaving it for after the final Special input. Speaking of the final special input, it's okay. A bit generic but this character doesn't seem to have too expansive of a powerset. Onto the Blade Specials.
Before I get into any specifically, is there any HUD gauge that shows us when or which Blade Special is in stock? It's never mentioned, but I really do feel there should be one, especially since Affinity is shown without needing any kind of HUD element freeing up that space for you Blade Special gauge. Also, I know there's no eloquent way to do this, and it isn't even completely accurate to the games, but I feel as if there should be some way to allow yourself to use the Level 1 again after passing it in the "1, 2, 3" rotation. I won't dock points for it because I have no idea how to do so myself, but if you somehow edit that in gracefully, I'll up whatever vote I'm going to give this to a Plus.
Blade-Spec 1 already seems massively overpowered. I know you won't always get the 25%, but covering 5 grids in a hitbox that can kill at 85% as a reward for hitting ONE special is massive overkill. It's even better considering you can still move and attack during this and even shove the opponent INTO the massive killbox. Specials don't seem particularly hard to hit with if you give Brighid both blades and play around her a little bit since most of the Specials have quite large hitboxes (D-Spec not included, I feel that move honestly just kinda sucks). Maybe that was the intention given how weak Specials are on the damage side but that just seems like poor balancing.
Will O' Wisp seems so much weaker than Heat Haze; Iit covers the same general area and, while it will probably do more damage, doesn't kill at 85% like Blade-Spec 1. Seriously, please nerf that. Finally, Blade-Spec level 3 is just Omnislash, which is fine in terms of flavor and stuff. 6 Specials that you kinda have to work on getting is a fair price but with how much insane power you get for it (you need to hit the opponent twice, and then hit them with this and then they're dead, guaranteed) is maybe too generous? Like maybe really too generous?
Forward Smash, both variants, seem exceedingly useless. Armed is an INCREDIBLY laggy attack that you're trapped in for literal seconds with your reward being a kill option that will never, ever hit considering you can't use Brighid to even combo into it. Unarmed, even if it's fully charged it deals 12.5%. Thats a full second of charging at least, for just 12.5%. Just make that move an F-Tilt, please.
Up Smash, on the other hand, is quite good. While I find it a bit odd that every single attack up to this point has had a sweetspot, Up Smash works. It's a great-ranged move with good damage when sweetspotted and decent stuff even when it doesn't. Up Smash unarmed is also functional, but weak, while not being literally unusable like the F Smash. Same with D-Smash, but a 6 grid wide hitbox is a bit much, even if it's very low to the ground.
Onto Tilts. Jab seems fine (though it's kind of hard to tell if it's a rapid jab) and Unarmed Jab also seems relatively fine, though I fail to see how a moving that does no real knockback is good for 'positioning' (maybe you meant holding the opponent in one place? If so, Grab works much better for that right?) Also I'm really not sure how the other 2 strikes after Jab work, do you let go of A to do that? Or are the first rapid hits done by hitting A rapidly and you have to like, wait for the endlag of the punches before hitting A again to start the next two strikes? Clarifying stuff like that is important as it helps a person imagine really playing as the character more fully.
F-Tilt is alright, nothing to write home about on either front there. Honestly a major issue I see in this set is how every move Morag has besides her smashes and the Blade Specials is just so damn weak. Having massive range but weak hits can work, but it's tweaked way to hard to the range side here so everything feels simultaneously weak and ineffectual, but way to big. U-Tilt and D-Tilt are way too laggy for how little damage they do, and the long endlag makes it sound like the long hitstun is almost entirely neutral on hit. Really, skimming through the rest of the set, that's my issue. It's just balanced in an extreme way I can't get behind. One final note I will make though, I appreciate how Brighid can grab, but doesn't have a full set of grabs to make her overly complex.
So, first off, I believe what you refer to as gridsquares are grids. I'm not 100% sure on that, but those in chat seemed to be in agreement and you confirmed that you meant the larger training mode stage blocks. That's good, I feel that's a pretty fair distance, but Affinity diminishes too quickly once you leave that 3 grid space (1% a frame means spending even a second away from Brigihd means you've lost more than half a full tank of affinity.) Also, uses for Affinity besides the minor buff you get for having it at 100% aren't mentioned in this dedicated section, which seems odd. One final thing to bring up here is that while its mentioned in S-Spec that Affinity Range increases with each special performed, stuff like that, I feel, should be mentioned in the Affinity section.
Side Spec is alright, I feel like damage that only does 10% isn't exactly frightening, but that's simply a nitpick to a pretty cool move. A hybrid frame trap/combo starter move is very interesting, especially considering you don't even have to be the one performing it, Brighid can. The aerial version also fits and makes sense, I can see Morag mains performing some sick edge guards with it.
An issue I have with Up Spec though, is if you use the grounded variant you don't actually GO anywhere, despite the secondary trap effect mentioning the flames always trail your movement during the move. It also goes almost nowhere, less than even Belmont's U-Spec, can you combine the Brighid version with your side spec? Also, I feel as if these specials are quite weak in terms of damage, I'd buff them all at least 3% even though the kill percents seem entirely fine.
D-Spec is where I got confused and… you seemed to as well, at least in the chat. Over all things need to be better explained and less wrapped into the move explanation when talking about mechanics unique to Morag. Sharing you sword with Brighid forces both of you to perform the move, while passing both swords just makes Brighid do it. This is only explained in the latter half of one move, and is kind of hard to parse at that. I'd make a third paragraph in affinity that explains these concepts, as well as what a "Blade Special" is instead of leaving it for after the final Special input. Speaking of the final special input, it's okay. A bit generic but this character doesn't seem to have too expansive of a powerset. Onto the Blade Specials.
Before I get into any specifically, is there any HUD gauge that shows us when or which Blade Special is in stock? It's never mentioned, but I really do feel there should be one, especially since Affinity is shown without needing any kind of HUD element freeing up that space for you Blade Special gauge. Also, I know there's no eloquent way to do this, and it isn't even completely accurate to the games, but I feel as if there should be some way to allow yourself to use the Level 1 again after passing it in the "1, 2, 3" rotation. I won't dock points for it because I have no idea how to do so myself, but if you somehow edit that in gracefully, I'll up whatever vote I'm going to give this to a Plus.
Blade-Spec 1 already seems massively overpowered. I know you won't always get the 25%, but covering 5 grids in a hitbox that can kill at 85% as a reward for hitting ONE special is massive overkill. It's even better considering you can still move and attack during this and even shove the opponent INTO the massive killbox. Specials don't seem particularly hard to hit with if you give Brighid both blades and play around her a little bit since most of the Specials have quite large hitboxes (D-Spec not included, I feel that move honestly just kinda sucks). Maybe that was the intention given how weak Specials are on the damage side but that just seems like poor balancing.
Will O' Wisp seems so much weaker than Heat Haze; Iit covers the same general area and, while it will probably do more damage, doesn't kill at 85% like Blade-Spec 1. Seriously, please nerf that. Finally, Blade-Spec level 3 is just Omnislash, which is fine in terms of flavor and stuff. 6 Specials that you kinda have to work on getting is a fair price but with how much insane power you get for it (you need to hit the opponent twice, and then hit them with this and then they're dead, guaranteed) is maybe too generous? Like maybe really too generous?
Forward Smash, both variants, seem exceedingly useless. Armed is an INCREDIBLY laggy attack that you're trapped in for literal seconds with your reward being a kill option that will never, ever hit considering you can't use Brighid to even combo into it. Unarmed, even if it's fully charged it deals 12.5%. Thats a full second of charging at least, for just 12.5%. Just make that move an F-Tilt, please.
Up Smash, on the other hand, is quite good. While I find it a bit odd that every single attack up to this point has had a sweetspot, Up Smash works. It's a great-ranged move with good damage when sweetspotted and decent stuff even when it doesn't. Up Smash unarmed is also functional, but weak, while not being literally unusable like the F Smash. Same with D-Smash, but a 6 grid wide hitbox is a bit much, even if it's very low to the ground.
Onto Tilts. Jab seems fine (though it's kind of hard to tell if it's a rapid jab) and Unarmed Jab also seems relatively fine, though I fail to see how a moving that does no real knockback is good for 'positioning' (maybe you meant holding the opponent in one place? If so, Grab works much better for that right?) Also I'm really not sure how the other 2 strikes after Jab work, do you let go of A to do that? Or are the first rapid hits done by hitting A rapidly and you have to like, wait for the endlag of the punches before hitting A again to start the next two strikes? Clarifying stuff like that is important as it helps a person imagine really playing as the character more fully.
F-Tilt is alright, nothing to write home about on either front there. Honestly a major issue I see in this set is how every move Morag has besides her smashes and the Blade Specials is just so damn weak. Having massive range but weak hits can work, but it's tweaked way to hard to the range side here so everything feels simultaneously weak and ineffectual, but way to big. U-Tilt and D-Tilt are way too laggy for how little damage they do, and the long endlag makes it sound like the long hitstun is almost entirely neutral on hit. Really, skimming through the rest of the set, that's my issue. It's just balanced in an extreme way I can't get behind. One final note I will make though, I appreciate how Brighid can grab, but doesn't have a full set of grabs to make her overly complex.
Aatrox
You've at one point said you thought this was your weakest set this contest, but this being your worst is a pretty good sign for your overall quality. Aatrox runs off a trifecta of buffs, Deathbringer Stance, Blood Thirst/Price, and World Ender(and the associated blood well mechanic), and all three of them are at least kind of interesting to use. You can in some cases stack the results of these for some massively powerful results if you can get all your mechanics to align properly, and doing so certainly feels satisfying, juggling the self-damage and cooldown timers properly to pull out some pretty terrifying moves. The set follows it up with some solid melee, using Neutral Special for a sort of "delayed" Dancing Blade to work the rest of your set into and occasionally combo into itself and a wide variety of moves that are designed with paying out(IE Dash Attack/FThrow) or building up(IE Down Smash) the mechanics. While it rarely gets into especially impressive territory, its if nothing else a set that feels like it would be satisfying to play well.
Aatrox's biggest flaw, unfortunately, is a big component of its core in World Ender. For the record, I don't hate World Ender, the idea of the blood well revival mechanic is certainly a neat upside. That said, an absurd amount of Aatrox's power is locked in World Ender, between him having Deathbringer Stance on every move and it basically being the main way you get Blood Well bonuses going at all. This becomes a pretty extreme seesaw when you consider this move may as well be Aatrox's entire recovery, and he has a 12 second cooldown window when its down when his only recovery move is something better dedicated to being a microspacer. Does this feel approrpriate as a downside to reviving with it? Yeah, I thought that part of the dynamic was cool. But Aatrox could really use something else to recover when its just on cooldown rather than outright denied, he could even lose it on reincarnation and/or have it delay his chance to go into World Ender but as is Aatrox is just going to get destroyed when its on cooldown.
Point is, its a decent set despite being nothing revolutionary, but it would really be nice if World Ender was not something he needs so drastically that even it going on cooldown is enough for him to frequently get wrecked. As far as this kind of risky buff mechanic goes, I think Necalli did it quite a bit better, so while I'd say this is worth people's time to read, Necalli is a better time investment if you haven't checked it out yet.
You've at one point said you thought this was your weakest set this contest, but this being your worst is a pretty good sign for your overall quality. Aatrox runs off a trifecta of buffs, Deathbringer Stance, Blood Thirst/Price, and World Ender(and the associated blood well mechanic), and all three of them are at least kind of interesting to use. You can in some cases stack the results of these for some massively powerful results if you can get all your mechanics to align properly, and doing so certainly feels satisfying, juggling the self-damage and cooldown timers properly to pull out some pretty terrifying moves. The set follows it up with some solid melee, using Neutral Special for a sort of "delayed" Dancing Blade to work the rest of your set into and occasionally combo into itself and a wide variety of moves that are designed with paying out(IE Dash Attack/FThrow) or building up(IE Down Smash) the mechanics. While it rarely gets into especially impressive territory, its if nothing else a set that feels like it would be satisfying to play well.
Aatrox's biggest flaw, unfortunately, is a big component of its core in World Ender. For the record, I don't hate World Ender, the idea of the blood well revival mechanic is certainly a neat upside. That said, an absurd amount of Aatrox's power is locked in World Ender, between him having Deathbringer Stance on every move and it basically being the main way you get Blood Well bonuses going at all. This becomes a pretty extreme seesaw when you consider this move may as well be Aatrox's entire recovery, and he has a 12 second cooldown window when its down when his only recovery move is something better dedicated to being a microspacer. Does this feel approrpriate as a downside to reviving with it? Yeah, I thought that part of the dynamic was cool. But Aatrox could really use something else to recover when its just on cooldown rather than outright denied, he could even lose it on reincarnation and/or have it delay his chance to go into World Ender but as is Aatrox is just going to get destroyed when its on cooldown.
Point is, its a decent set despite being nothing revolutionary, but it would really be nice if World Ender was not something he needs so drastically that even it going on cooldown is enough for him to frequently get wrecked. As far as this kind of risky buff mechanic goes, I think Necalli did it quite a bit better, so while I'd say this is worth people's time to read, Necalli is a better time investment if you haven't checked it out yet.
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Rintaro/Kyouma
I don't think you need me to tell you what's wrong with this set, its pretty obvious from a quick glance. As cool as the concepts provided in the Specials are, the set puts in a pretty minimal amount into playing off them, and its not like enough detail is put in for it to be interesting melee on its own right. This was a 5k word set made for a character I don't think you were very convinced on the set potential of, but basically it meant I can't vote for this set despite it having my favorite concepts of any set you posted this contest.
That said, its a cool basis. The basic blaster pistol has a pretty fun effect if fully charged, not being a true stun but allowing Rintaro to put a lot of pressure on the opponent, sometimes in ways a normal stun of that length couldn't. It becomes a lot scarier when you consider that you can potentially make this shot recur via the ability to recur projectiles from an earlier point in time by storing them in the microwave and then going back in time to when those projectiles are out. The set also messes with the idea of a breakable weapon you can reset back to normal with this, which I thought was a very cool idea even if it wasn't used much. Honestly, given this guy's esoteric collection of gadgets, you probably could have done more with that than just the one breakable glowstick. My biggest problem with the set's core honestly is just, aside from it not being used well, the time travel mechanic is insanely underpowered. Having to commit to it for so much time to get a relatively minor effect on the actual match that only exists for some, admittedly situationally strong, interactions. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd allow Rintaro to attack while the move is charging and still have it get interrupted if he gets hit, a second button press activating the time travel. It'd make it a lot more viable to do things like fix the glowstick and get a good number of projectiles time traveling.
In any case, its cool stuff and I kinda hope the ideas here come back in another set. On a final note, the characterization of this guy who proclaims himself to be a god of technology when he's making these goofy, underwhelming inventions is pretty funny, the quotes serve to make this set more entertaining to read. Should we actually call him Rintaro Okabe or Hououin Kyouma? The set refers to him as the later but we're currently calling him the former into set list.
I don't think you need me to tell you what's wrong with this set, its pretty obvious from a quick glance. As cool as the concepts provided in the Specials are, the set puts in a pretty minimal amount into playing off them, and its not like enough detail is put in for it to be interesting melee on its own right. This was a 5k word set made for a character I don't think you were very convinced on the set potential of, but basically it meant I can't vote for this set despite it having my favorite concepts of any set you posted this contest.
That said, its a cool basis. The basic blaster pistol has a pretty fun effect if fully charged, not being a true stun but allowing Rintaro to put a lot of pressure on the opponent, sometimes in ways a normal stun of that length couldn't. It becomes a lot scarier when you consider that you can potentially make this shot recur via the ability to recur projectiles from an earlier point in time by storing them in the microwave and then going back in time to when those projectiles are out. The set also messes with the idea of a breakable weapon you can reset back to normal with this, which I thought was a very cool idea even if it wasn't used much. Honestly, given this guy's esoteric collection of gadgets, you probably could have done more with that than just the one breakable glowstick. My biggest problem with the set's core honestly is just, aside from it not being used well, the time travel mechanic is insanely underpowered. Having to commit to it for so much time to get a relatively minor effect on the actual match that only exists for some, admittedly situationally strong, interactions. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd allow Rintaro to attack while the move is charging and still have it get interrupted if he gets hit, a second button press activating the time travel. It'd make it a lot more viable to do things like fix the glowstick and get a good number of projectiles time traveling.
In any case, its cool stuff and I kinda hope the ideas here come back in another set. On a final note, the characterization of this guy who proclaims himself to be a god of technology when he's making these goofy, underwhelming inventions is pretty funny, the quotes serve to make this set more entertaining to read. Should we actually call him Rintaro Okabe or Hououin Kyouma? The set refers to him as the later but we're currently calling him the former into set list.
The Great Red Spotdodge
8/10
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Jupiter is a set that gleefully rides on the novelty of its character choice, and that is not a bad thing at all! Your writing doesn't address the inherent absurdity of an entire planet entering Smash as a combatant, and honestly that adds to the underlying humor to me. Beyond the character choice, you've got some simple, but flexible, mechanics that come together in a nice package that really befits the idea of controlling a celestial body that decided to crack some skulls in Smash. The Ring System is a very nice passive mechanic that can become active at a moment's notice, making it a neat key point in any match involving Jupiter; everyone present would be wise to keep an eye focused on that asteroid ring! Capture is probably my favorite of the specials; it's a neat take on the Pocket move, and the way it ties into Jupiter's Smashes makes it just flexible enough to be even scarier than Pocket itself. Asteroid Shot is simple at a glance, but you've clearly got some interesting mechanics under the surface here; the gravity assist mechanic is really cool, and I appreciate the illustration that summarizes it. With a partner that can manipulate projectiles, I feel like Jupiter could make this humble projectile something nightmarish! The recovery is interesting as well, using Jupiter's physical mass as a fuel gauge, but in this move lies my sole complaint with the set: the dynamic of shrinking Jupiter's body isn't addressed any more after Up Special! Granted, said dynamic is simple and well-explained, but it could be interesting to have some descriptions of how certain moves' uses change with tiny Jupiter; for example, is it possible for the planet's tilts to knock people into its rings, now that there's a gap between its surface and the belt? Beyond the specials, the rest of the set is straightforward, but enjoyable. Jupiter's animations are all handled very well, and actually lend a strange amount of character to the inanimate planet! All in all, excellent work, bubbyboytoo!8/10
Firmly Grasp It, The Character (Percy by @Professor Lexicovermis)
Percy has already been commented on, so instead of adding my own full-blown comment, I'm going to simply add to the things already said.
Percy is a fun set. A fun characterisation in general that adds to the "Actually Nice Monster" idea with a knack for science. This is translated in the set and while some attacks are quite *reaching*, like the confused Up Tilt, an accidental vibe here and there doesn't hurt and is actually really nice. Some slaps could be more repurposed to be more like an attack, like Back Air being Percy falling over *because* she tries to windmill into an opponent, but it didn't really bother me.
The playstyle of a DoT summoner is nice, and the mechanic of moving around the mushrooms is rewarding enough to play around with, fits the character and is a unique twist on the normally stationary trapper.
If the set would stop there, it'd be a solid set with a cool premise and sweet, albeit aggresively implemented, characterisation. However, the set adds the Research Gauge, which is a pretty useless mechanic imo.
First of all, the requirement of a meter fill is quite unspectacular, since almost everything charges it, there's little strategic value for it. Percy players play the same as other character's. The goal is still hitting the opponent.
Secondly, its effects are simply buffs. None of the moves get their uses altered or changed, attacks simply get buffed,
Finally, flavor-wise it's not deep enough to justify it,
Simply said, It doesn't actually add anything except another rather unsubtle way of characterising the character.
It doesn't really subtract from the set either, as aside from creating a relatively useless Side B, it's mostly an harmless extra and the Mushroom DoT trapping is a good mechanic on its own enough to carry the set without a meter so it's not like I missed anything from the set.
Overall, Percy is a fun set with a few specials and mechanics that work well to together to create a decent trapping set with cool, albeit occasionally overboard characterisation.
Really, all you gotta do is change three animations or so or alter the descriptions to at least put less emphasis on the fact Percy didn't actually mean to hurt the opponent and you're good. Up Tilt can be a regular swat that way, and Back Air can be a windmill attack dome by a slightly clumsy character. Attacks like Forward Air and Down Air are perfect examples of moves that make use of the character's inexperience at both fighting and inhabiting a body on general and I liked attacks like Forward Smash that are Percy being excited. Even more outlandish ones like Forward Throw are fun once in a while, but Back Throw and Up Tilt took it too far imo.
Depending on how voting works exactly, I might vote for this since the base set itself is good
Percy has already been commented on, so instead of adding my own full-blown comment, I'm going to simply add to the things already said.
Percy is a fun set. A fun characterisation in general that adds to the "Actually Nice Monster" idea with a knack for science. This is translated in the set and while some attacks are quite *reaching*, like the confused Up Tilt, an accidental vibe here and there doesn't hurt and is actually really nice. Some slaps could be more repurposed to be more like an attack, like Back Air being Percy falling over *because* she tries to windmill into an opponent, but it didn't really bother me.
The playstyle of a DoT summoner is nice, and the mechanic of moving around the mushrooms is rewarding enough to play around with, fits the character and is a unique twist on the normally stationary trapper.
If the set would stop there, it'd be a solid set with a cool premise and sweet, albeit aggresively implemented, characterisation. However, the set adds the Research Gauge, which is a pretty useless mechanic imo.
First of all, the requirement of a meter fill is quite unspectacular, since almost everything charges it, there's little strategic value for it. Percy players play the same as other character's. The goal is still hitting the opponent.
Secondly, its effects are simply buffs. None of the moves get their uses altered or changed, attacks simply get buffed,
Finally, flavor-wise it's not deep enough to justify it,
Simply said, It doesn't actually add anything except another rather unsubtle way of characterising the character.
It doesn't really subtract from the set either, as aside from creating a relatively useless Side B, it's mostly an harmless extra and the Mushroom DoT trapping is a good mechanic on its own enough to carry the set without a meter so it's not like I missed anything from the set.
Overall, Percy is a fun set with a few specials and mechanics that work well to together to create a decent trapping set with cool, albeit occasionally overboard characterisation.
Really, all you gotta do is change three animations or so or alter the descriptions to at least put less emphasis on the fact Percy didn't actually mean to hurt the opponent and you're good. Up Tilt can be a regular swat that way, and Back Air can be a windmill attack dome by a slightly clumsy character. Attacks like Forward Air and Down Air are perfect examples of moves that make use of the character's inexperience at both fighting and inhabiting a body on general and I liked attacks like Forward Smash that are Percy being excited. Even more outlandish ones like Forward Throw are fun once in a while, but Back Throw and Up Tilt took it too far imo.
Depending on how voting works exactly, I might vote for this since the base set itself is good
Percy
I think I've addressed in the chat that I really don't enjoy the set's animation choices, with Percy performing so many of her moves by mistake. I get the idea, you want to portray this character as non-malicious despite her threatening appearance, but it would have likely gone over much better if she just did most of what she did in the set on purpose and then had taunts/victory poses showing her as non-malicious. For the record, I did ask someone outside the community on if these kinds of accidental animations made sense, they said no, so this isn't just some weird internal mindset of MYM, nevermind that a lot of people here nowadays don't really care about MYM's old standards in that regard anyway. Accidental attacks might be a "subjective" thing, but I don't think its unreasonable for me to say people would look at this kind of animation and just find it jarring. Also even by "making a mistake" standards, accidentally throwing a book is pretty out there, I find it extremely hard to believe an outright toss of a book would ever be anything other than purposeful. Also the set's density of accidental attacks is high enough that Percy's combos would look like a string of extremely competent mistakes, to the point even by clumsy cartoon character standards it just comes across as outright ridiculous to watch play out.
There is more to address than animations of course, but to be blunt I'm not really sold on the character's playstyle either. Percy's mechanic of developing sweetspots on her set through research is interesting, even if I have concerns with how it'd play out in any sort of setting with more than one opponent. It either doesn't make a whole lot of sense flavor-wise for her to have researched opponent's weakspots for one enemy and uses them on another, or the sweetspots are different for every opponent which is incredibly hard to convey visually and the set never gives an answer. Nevermind that flavor-wise Percy researching her opponent to more effectively use attacks she's using by accident doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, but whatever. My problem is the actual execution of this meter, because having it passively go up by fighting and contact means it will go up passively in any match without any effort on Percy's part, so it may as well just be that her sweetspots get better the longer the stock goes on. I'd really appreciate it if the meter had any more substance to developing it than that, there isn't really much of a particular playstyle Percy can adapt too to suddenly get a lot of research done and develop her sweetspots, which makes the mechanic play out in a pretty boring way.
Honestly, I could still forgive it if the end result had a bit more substance to it, but the change to every move feels pretty much the same, with the exception of Up and Down Smash. Those are decent, I actually do quite like the idea of a trap that explodes more powerfully if you hit the right part of it, but everything else is really samey, a sizeable boost to damage and knockback with nothing else. It'd be nice if some of these sweetspots played off the poison damage to get more effective, such as the poison which isn't really used all that much(damage over time, by itself and without some other context, doesn't really add much to a moveset) or possibly having one of these sweetspots be better for combos as opposed to all of them just KOing better. Doesn't Percy want to keep the opponent closer to her to get more research? The grab game is pretty barren and frankly I see nothing it adds to the set other than the absolute bare minimum for a grab game, and that plus the animations left a really bad taste in my mouth after finishing that section.
Lastly, the set is mostly not awful about detail, but it could really, really use more information on how much certain things fill the research gauge. For all we know it could fill up in one Jab or could fill so slowly a whole stock will go by and she'll only be at 10% research by the end of it. This is kind of important to give at least a little more context on.
I think I've addressed in the chat that I really don't enjoy the set's animation choices, with Percy performing so many of her moves by mistake. I get the idea, you want to portray this character as non-malicious despite her threatening appearance, but it would have likely gone over much better if she just did most of what she did in the set on purpose and then had taunts/victory poses showing her as non-malicious. For the record, I did ask someone outside the community on if these kinds of accidental animations made sense, they said no, so this isn't just some weird internal mindset of MYM, nevermind that a lot of people here nowadays don't really care about MYM's old standards in that regard anyway. Accidental attacks might be a "subjective" thing, but I don't think its unreasonable for me to say people would look at this kind of animation and just find it jarring. Also even by "making a mistake" standards, accidentally throwing a book is pretty out there, I find it extremely hard to believe an outright toss of a book would ever be anything other than purposeful. Also the set's density of accidental attacks is high enough that Percy's combos would look like a string of extremely competent mistakes, to the point even by clumsy cartoon character standards it just comes across as outright ridiculous to watch play out.
There is more to address than animations of course, but to be blunt I'm not really sold on the character's playstyle either. Percy's mechanic of developing sweetspots on her set through research is interesting, even if I have concerns with how it'd play out in any sort of setting with more than one opponent. It either doesn't make a whole lot of sense flavor-wise for her to have researched opponent's weakspots for one enemy and uses them on another, or the sweetspots are different for every opponent which is incredibly hard to convey visually and the set never gives an answer. Nevermind that flavor-wise Percy researching her opponent to more effectively use attacks she's using by accident doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, but whatever. My problem is the actual execution of this meter, because having it passively go up by fighting and contact means it will go up passively in any match without any effort on Percy's part, so it may as well just be that her sweetspots get better the longer the stock goes on. I'd really appreciate it if the meter had any more substance to developing it than that, there isn't really much of a particular playstyle Percy can adapt too to suddenly get a lot of research done and develop her sweetspots, which makes the mechanic play out in a pretty boring way.
Honestly, I could still forgive it if the end result had a bit more substance to it, but the change to every move feels pretty much the same, with the exception of Up and Down Smash. Those are decent, I actually do quite like the idea of a trap that explodes more powerfully if you hit the right part of it, but everything else is really samey, a sizeable boost to damage and knockback with nothing else. It'd be nice if some of these sweetspots played off the poison damage to get more effective, such as the poison which isn't really used all that much(damage over time, by itself and without some other context, doesn't really add much to a moveset) or possibly having one of these sweetspots be better for combos as opposed to all of them just KOing better. Doesn't Percy want to keep the opponent closer to her to get more research? The grab game is pretty barren and frankly I see nothing it adds to the set other than the absolute bare minimum for a grab game, and that plus the animations left a really bad taste in my mouth after finishing that section.
Lastly, the set is mostly not awful about detail, but it could really, really use more information on how much certain things fill the research gauge. For all we know it could fill up in one Jab or could fill so slowly a whole stock will go by and she'll only be at 10% research by the end of it. This is kind of important to give at least a little more context on.
Serious Monlight
(Rating withheld until the end)
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First of all, I want to congratulate you again for getting this set out, JamietheAuraUser. I know it was a long process, and I admire your sheer tenacity in finishing Sylvia. I also want to say that this set was worth every bit of your hard work: Sylvia is a fantastic set, and my personal favorite of MYM21 so far! From the outset, you do an amazing job of balancing very detailed technical descriptions and very clear-cut characterization, and both of these trends continue through the entire set. Your writing style is masterful, leaving me with absolutely no doubts as to how even a single element of Sylvia works. Even the most mundane inputs have very clear uses in Sylvia's gameplan, and she, to me, appears to be the apex of the MYM Grappler genre. Every single command grab has a different use, and even her least useful throw still has a purpose. Sylvia as a set is a well-oiled machine, every move working as another piece in the overall picture to create a simply immaculate package. Bottom line, if you have any intentions of voting this contest, you owe it to yourself to read Sylvia. You would be missing a true treasure if you don't.(Rating withheld until the end)
Rating: 10/10
SYLVIA
It's familiar territory in the writing style coming back to Sylvia, going into excessive detail on all properties of the moves like Jamie's other sets. Compared to previous sets though, I would say this one had a lot more relevant information to convey this time and went into better depth on what the playstyle actually is. It helps that Sylvia has a more clear and fun basis as you go along, too, that is more coherent throughout the moveset. She is a grappler with several command grabs throughout the moveset, even an aerial zair grab. I normally don't like having so many command grabs, but rarely is it the actual point of the set, and in this case I think it works.
Some other moves I thought were highlights were the uncharged Side Special's leaves having a rather well thought out and fair system for a homing projectile that punished dodges without just countering them, ftilt's versatile knockback on hit 3 that's useful for comboing, and the bthrow/dthrow effects which are pretty much the centerpiece to the grab based playstyle, being more anti-dodge moves and encouraging Sylvia to keep up the pressure with the comboing and what have you. I also liked the touch with the dsmash banning foes from being grabbed during the "pitfall release" animation, being a well thought out and balanced stun. For how much comboing and grabbing is going on here, it almost always feels very fair. The ability to turn the foe around with the Up Special during the grab and how it's executed is gone into excessive detail for good reason given how important it is for a grab centric character where they're facing, along with the turnaround dtilt combo into grab. There was meat in this set to sink my teeth into.
Even the characterization bits, as much as I would be utterly disgusted by this character, are handled quite nicely and are worth the amount of detail you've given them. I never really got that much of a characterization sense out of your other sets by comparison to this one. It's not just a powerset given a moveset in Smash. One small nitpick I'll say about the obvious memetic move - why do only allies react to being kissed by this thing? Foes have nothing to say about it?
That's not to say the writing style is perfect, there's plenty of information that still feels superfluous. I'm not saying you can't have it, but you want to cover fringe cases instead of the more obvious playstyle a lot of time. The moveset's priorities are pretty backwards, with playstyle centerpieces just happening to pop up in the middle of nowhere as the moveset is just covering the moves in a mundane general sense sometimes. Even once those playstyle centerpieces are out in the open and it's clear what the character does, the moveset doesn't really take much advantage of that knowledge and assumes it's still typing the first move of the set sometimes. You have all this great context to refernce, but it's just wasted sometimes in some of the smashes and aerials. The smashes are pretty shockingly basic for what are so often the flashiest inputs a character has. Of course there's some moves that will come across as obviously irrelevant to me, but it's weirder they're sandwiched between highly important moves like it's not important to get the context of them in first.
I'm really not sure the extra input section you added onto the end of the set added much of value. An entirely new set of 5 additional throws would assume you had more ideas, but they didn't add much of anything that wasn't already covered several times over. The grab hitbox in the air is treated with such respect, when you already have several other aerial grabs in the Specials anyway. Yes, you can't perform 5 throws out of them, but the aerial throws are all so basic it doesn't seem that special. The main thing that's on my mind with an aerial grab-game is how much the characters fall during it and how useful it is off-stage, which is the main place she's going to be grabbing with it most of the time. For a character with so many air grabs, that is barely talked about at all in the set, even in the air grab itself. You did a good job of not making any of the air throws be particularly powerful to just casually kill people, but it's still aerial grabs and throws. You should talk about it more, and god knows this moveset loves to talk.
It's familiar territory in the writing style coming back to Sylvia, going into excessive detail on all properties of the moves like Jamie's other sets. Compared to previous sets though, I would say this one had a lot more relevant information to convey this time and went into better depth on what the playstyle actually is. It helps that Sylvia has a more clear and fun basis as you go along, too, that is more coherent throughout the moveset. She is a grappler with several command grabs throughout the moveset, even an aerial zair grab. I normally don't like having so many command grabs, but rarely is it the actual point of the set, and in this case I think it works.
Some other moves I thought were highlights were the uncharged Side Special's leaves having a rather well thought out and fair system for a homing projectile that punished dodges without just countering them, ftilt's versatile knockback on hit 3 that's useful for comboing, and the bthrow/dthrow effects which are pretty much the centerpiece to the grab based playstyle, being more anti-dodge moves and encouraging Sylvia to keep up the pressure with the comboing and what have you. I also liked the touch with the dsmash banning foes from being grabbed during the "pitfall release" animation, being a well thought out and balanced stun. For how much comboing and grabbing is going on here, it almost always feels very fair. The ability to turn the foe around with the Up Special during the grab and how it's executed is gone into excessive detail for good reason given how important it is for a grab centric character where they're facing, along with the turnaround dtilt combo into grab. There was meat in this set to sink my teeth into.
Even the characterization bits, as much as I would be utterly disgusted by this character, are handled quite nicely and are worth the amount of detail you've given them. I never really got that much of a characterization sense out of your other sets by comparison to this one. It's not just a powerset given a moveset in Smash. One small nitpick I'll say about the obvious memetic move - why do only allies react to being kissed by this thing? Foes have nothing to say about it?
That's not to say the writing style is perfect, there's plenty of information that still feels superfluous. I'm not saying you can't have it, but you want to cover fringe cases instead of the more obvious playstyle a lot of time. The moveset's priorities are pretty backwards, with playstyle centerpieces just happening to pop up in the middle of nowhere as the moveset is just covering the moves in a mundane general sense sometimes. Even once those playstyle centerpieces are out in the open and it's clear what the character does, the moveset doesn't really take much advantage of that knowledge and assumes it's still typing the first move of the set sometimes. You have all this great context to refernce, but it's just wasted sometimes in some of the smashes and aerials. The smashes are pretty shockingly basic for what are so often the flashiest inputs a character has. Of course there's some moves that will come across as obviously irrelevant to me, but it's weirder they're sandwiched between highly important moves like it's not important to get the context of them in first.
I'm really not sure the extra input section you added onto the end of the set added much of value. An entirely new set of 5 additional throws would assume you had more ideas, but they didn't add much of anything that wasn't already covered several times over. The grab hitbox in the air is treated with such respect, when you already have several other aerial grabs in the Specials anyway. Yes, you can't perform 5 throws out of them, but the aerial throws are all so basic it doesn't seem that special. The main thing that's on my mind with an aerial grab-game is how much the characters fall during it and how useful it is off-stage, which is the main place she's going to be grabbing with it most of the time. For a character with so many air grabs, that is barely talked about at all in the set, even in the air grab itself. You did a good job of not making any of the air throws be particularly powerful to just casually kill people, but it's still aerial grabs and throws. You should talk about it more, and god knows this moveset loves to talk.
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Shinotwo
Commenting this before the much more anticipated Yui because I am currently at home without internet and it would mean not being able to look at a bunch of the links or images well. So, does Shinobu really lose her clothing when her sword is reflected? After all, groping herself is a sword respawn animation, so gotta ask!
Shinobu has some surprisingly solid ideas in her for a set that, IIRC, you basically finished and threw out as a "whatever" kind of thing. The particular one that stuck out to me is the ability to turn your clones into a throwing item you can toss to hit the foe for no hitstun but have the clone pop out as pressure: This is actually a really creative use of clones and throwing items that I don't think I've really seen! I will say I think they should be able to pop out if shielded, because that could lead to some super fun shield pressure shenanigans. Shinobu's Forward Smash also struck out to me as a fun move: I do enjoy these kind of "lots of pre-charge lag, comes out as a snap when released" moves for this (I use them a fair deal myself!) and I can see uses for all of the variable knockbacks you can choose from.
Reflecting Shinobu's throw swords does feel oddly strong against her, but she at least has some good counterplay options against this herself when properly spaced, and I do like the idea of your clones having this strong projectile that can be reflected to harm Shinobu as well. It is almost like a reverse projectile manipulation set! It also, from what limited I know of the character, is pretty fitting to them. Up SMash strikes me as some fun manipulation of the sword item, granting Shinobu some fun play options even when it is apart from her. On the flipside, I do wonder about the balance on some parts: Is it just me reading it or do clones give an obscene damage boost to Down Smash? Even even if only counts the 2 clones mentioned in the clone move, adding 3% damage to each of 8 hits is pretty obscene. Or am I misunderstanding and it is 1.5% TOTAL per clone? If so, maybe clarify it because right now it is pretty vague.
Forward Aerial is another good application of the set, with the move not just having some interesting lingering implications with the clones but having a pretty fun interaction with your clone-logs that basically allows you to set-up itemized duplicates for follow-ups to combo spikes. Up Aerials is a fun variant on Cloud Up Aerial though I do question some of the utility in this set specifically. Forward Throw has some fun ideas with the clones reducing the knockback of it to make it a more true combo throw and how she can throw a follow-up shuriken that also can serve as a psuedo-attack cancel which is nice. I do question the logic of the shuriken returning like boomerangs even if it does add an interesting gameplay element.
Up Special is an interesting recovery, and I do imagine some super risky offstage gameplay where Shinobu hardcore commits to a kill before recovering towards the stage after the opponent respawns. And utilizing a fast counter for a combo breaker tool is something I feel is surprisingly underutilized, which could be an idea worth further exploration: It is reasonably fun here, too! Even aside from the log part I mentioned.
This set isn't without issues, as the sword throw and Down Smash plus some other moves (though not the Up Special's super strong potential hitbox, that feels far too infeasible) stick out like total sore thumbs to me, such as NAir feeling really useless. There isn't a ton of that but it does pop up here and there, so that docks some points.
That being said, I enjoyed Shinobu a lot more than I expected: From the way you spoke of it I was expecting a lot more generic and less involved set! What I ended up with was a somewhat flawed, even aside from what I mentioned it does also fail to explore some of the ideas fully, yet highly fun and surprisingly effective set. I am eager for an answer on my Down Smash question as it heavily influences where I rank the set (I would say right now I am splitting the middle in where I rank it depending on what you say). Always a pleasant surprise for a set like this to turn out nicely!
Commenting this before the much more anticipated Yui because I am currently at home without internet and it would mean not being able to look at a bunch of the links or images well. So, does Shinobu really lose her clothing when her sword is reflected?
After all, groping herself is a sword respawn animation, so gotta ask!Shinobu has some surprisingly solid ideas in her for a set that, IIRC, you basically finished and threw out as a "whatever" kind of thing. The particular one that stuck out to me is the ability to turn your clones into a throwing item you can toss to hit the foe for no hitstun but have the clone pop out as pressure: This is actually a really creative use of clones and throwing items that I don't think I've really seen! I will say I think they should be able to pop out if shielded, because that could lead to some super fun shield pressure shenanigans. Shinobu's Forward Smash also struck out to me as a fun move: I do enjoy these kind of "lots of pre-charge lag, comes out as a snap when released" moves for this (I use them a fair deal myself!) and I can see uses for all of the variable knockbacks you can choose from.
Reflecting Shinobu's throw swords does feel oddly strong against her, but she at least has some good counterplay options against this herself when properly spaced, and I do like the idea of your clones having this strong projectile that can be reflected to harm Shinobu as well. It is almost like a reverse projectile manipulation set! It also, from what limited I know of the character, is pretty fitting to them. Up SMash strikes me as some fun manipulation of the sword item, granting Shinobu some fun play options even when it is apart from her. On the flipside, I do wonder about the balance on some parts: Is it just me reading it or do clones give an obscene damage boost to Down Smash? Even even if only counts the 2 clones mentioned in the clone move, adding 3% damage to each of 8 hits is pretty obscene. Or am I misunderstanding and it is 1.5% TOTAL per clone? If so, maybe clarify it because right now it is pretty vague.
Forward Aerial is another good application of the set, with the move not just having some interesting lingering implications with the clones but having a pretty fun interaction with your clone-logs that basically allows you to set-up itemized duplicates for follow-ups to combo spikes. Up Aerials is a fun variant on Cloud Up Aerial though I do question some of the utility in this set specifically. Forward Throw has some fun ideas with the clones reducing the knockback of it to make it a more true combo throw and how she can throw a follow-up shuriken that also can serve as a psuedo-attack cancel which is nice. I do question the logic of the shuriken returning like boomerangs even if it does add an interesting gameplay element.
Up Special is an interesting recovery, and I do imagine some super risky offstage gameplay where Shinobu hardcore commits to a kill before recovering towards the stage after the opponent respawns. And utilizing a fast counter for a combo breaker tool is something I feel is surprisingly underutilized, which could be an idea worth further exploration: It is reasonably fun here, too! Even aside from the log part I mentioned.
This set isn't without issues, as the sword throw and Down Smash plus some other moves (though not the Up Special's super strong potential hitbox, that feels far too infeasible) stick out like total sore thumbs to me, such as NAir feeling really useless. There isn't a ton of that but it does pop up here and there, so that docks some points.
That being said, I enjoyed Shinobu a lot more than I expected: From the way you spoke of it I was expecting a lot more generic and less involved set! What I ended up with was a somewhat flawed, even aside from what I mentioned it does also fail to explore some of the ideas fully, yet highly fun and surprisingly effective set. I am eager for an answer on my Down Smash question as it heavily influences where I rank the set (I would say right now I am splitting the middle in where I rank it depending on what you say). Always a pleasant surprise for a set like this to turn out nicely!
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So, Bubby has been graced with early access to the Steve DLC and has transcribed the moveset here for us to see. Let's judge Sakurai on his choices, shall we? I'll be covering any moves of interest here as well as general good and bad points of the set.
So, first off, Neutral B. I appreciate it because, well, terraforming is cool. One minor note that I can see immediately is that it's mentioned you can build rapidly, and at ledges. This means you can extend the height of any one ledge to make it 5 grids higher. That's pretty insane in terms of an edgeguard considering you just need to keep your passively regenerating stock of blocks up before you get the foe offstage to pull that off. I'd make it so that you blocks placed above ledges can be rolled through, and blocks have a higher magnet-hands range maybe? That way you still have to get risky if you want to gimp an opponent recovering low.
Side B is kind of uninteresting, and I feel like a better way to emphasize Steve's stage control playstle would to basically give him Piranha Plant's Side B, but A. as a projectile like you mentioned, and B. trading the reduced visibility and damage for a wider area of effect. Up B is also uninteresting, but the main issue I have with it is the penalties for hitting stuff. 5% self damage, instant helpless, and if you somehow manage to get back on stage after that you trip. I wouldn't mind this if you emphasized how terrible this recovery is, but you mention how it has great maneuverability that allows you to get creative with gimping; I simply disagree with that. Finally, this is mentioned in Down B too but, what do you mean by "KO Worthy" knockback? When does it KO? 100%? 120%? 80%? Clarifying these things is important to help us get in the mind of what a character really plays like, when we can expect to secure stocks and if killing is one of this character's weaknesses.
Anywho, on to Down B. TNT is nice and useful, I like how it isn't a projectile until lit like the actual game. Unlike the actual game though, Steve can't be hurt by his own explosion by default, which I think would actually be an interesting change. It would make it so TNT isn't free pressure: you have to make sure you and any blocks you need out aren't in the blast zone, essentially applying pressure to both you and your opponent strategically, maybe to force them to stay on one side of the stage while you set up your blocks for a wall combo or start building out a ledge. Obsidian would be fine, except it helped me realize how much health blocks have. Honestly I'd cut them all in half but give them some sort of regeneration like in Minecraft. That way you don't need a fully charged smash attack if you want to take down just one block. I'd also give Dispensers the same amount of health as cobblestone, as they're entirely free pressure, which is VERY good. Pistons on the other hand, seem kind of useless. It's the half-second timer, really, if it was something more like 1/6th of a second I'd feel it'd be much more useful in the main purpose I see it as, gimping recoveries.
That's it for Specials; over all good ideas, I just feel they could use some tweaking (terraforming sets are hell to balance, I've heard, and I'm not sure everyone would be happy with even the changes I proposed) so good on you for trying out something so hard. Reading through normals they all seem fine, I appreciate how Steve seems to be using every tool at his disposal certainly. Just a note here though, I'd be sure to mention knockback (both it's strength and angle) in every attack, it's missing in a few. Also, damage for the set beyond specials seems quite low, I'd up everything a few percent since Steve isn't really a "speedy rushdown combo" character and would definitely appreciate some meatier normals. The smashes, while low on damage, give Steve some stuff he's much better off for having; A nice, simple projectile, a genuine kill move, and some damage based stage control (along with a good OoS option)
Aerials are good, but I'm VERY impressed with Down Air sending you downwards if you're fast falling unlike how it normally bounces you up. That's immensely useful, but something I never would have thought up. The Z-Air is quite good too, but I am curious on the amount of lag you and the hitstun the opponent is put in, when Steve is dragged to them. That would influence pretty heavily what stuff he can combo with after that hit and mentioning what is and isn't a true combo there would be a nice detail.
Grabs are probably the weakest part of the set. The details on knockback are vague, and Back Throw doesn't actually mention the damage it deals. You do seem to know the basic kinds of throw smash employs (combo, spacer, KO, bury, etc.) but they could use a lot more details, like how the bury throw mentions Up Smash as a good followup.
So to finish up, I was reading Playstyle and you mentioned Steve has pretty poor frame-data. I really didn't get that from the set, and I'd go back and mention how these attacks of his are on the slower end. You don't have to give exact frame data or anything, just mention the speed of stuff more often (IE it's slightly fast, a bit on the laggier end, etc.) I also appreciate the extras (especially the Kirby, looks great) and creative Final Smash.
Overall, pretty decent set, you have pretty good ideas that just need more expositing, and you'd be golden.
So, first off, Neutral B. I appreciate it because, well, terraforming is cool. One minor note that I can see immediately is that it's mentioned you can build rapidly, and at ledges. This means you can extend the height of any one ledge to make it 5 grids higher. That's pretty insane in terms of an edgeguard considering you just need to keep your passively regenerating stock of blocks up before you get the foe offstage to pull that off. I'd make it so that you blocks placed above ledges can be rolled through, and blocks have a higher magnet-hands range maybe? That way you still have to get risky if you want to gimp an opponent recovering low.
Side B is kind of uninteresting, and I feel like a better way to emphasize Steve's stage control playstle would to basically give him Piranha Plant's Side B, but A. as a projectile like you mentioned, and B. trading the reduced visibility and damage for a wider area of effect. Up B is also uninteresting, but the main issue I have with it is the penalties for hitting stuff. 5% self damage, instant helpless, and if you somehow manage to get back on stage after that you trip. I wouldn't mind this if you emphasized how terrible this recovery is, but you mention how it has great maneuverability that allows you to get creative with gimping; I simply disagree with that. Finally, this is mentioned in Down B too but, what do you mean by "KO Worthy" knockback? When does it KO? 100%? 120%? 80%? Clarifying these things is important to help us get in the mind of what a character really plays like, when we can expect to secure stocks and if killing is one of this character's weaknesses.
Anywho, on to Down B. TNT is nice and useful, I like how it isn't a projectile until lit like the actual game. Unlike the actual game though, Steve can't be hurt by his own explosion by default, which I think would actually be an interesting change. It would make it so TNT isn't free pressure: you have to make sure you and any blocks you need out aren't in the blast zone, essentially applying pressure to both you and your opponent strategically, maybe to force them to stay on one side of the stage while you set up your blocks for a wall combo or start building out a ledge. Obsidian would be fine, except it helped me realize how much health blocks have. Honestly I'd cut them all in half but give them some sort of regeneration like in Minecraft. That way you don't need a fully charged smash attack if you want to take down just one block. I'd also give Dispensers the same amount of health as cobblestone, as they're entirely free pressure, which is VERY good. Pistons on the other hand, seem kind of useless. It's the half-second timer, really, if it was something more like 1/6th of a second I'd feel it'd be much more useful in the main purpose I see it as, gimping recoveries.
That's it for Specials; over all good ideas, I just feel they could use some tweaking (terraforming sets are hell to balance, I've heard, and I'm not sure everyone would be happy with even the changes I proposed) so good on you for trying out something so hard. Reading through normals they all seem fine, I appreciate how Steve seems to be using every tool at his disposal certainly. Just a note here though, I'd be sure to mention knockback (both it's strength and angle) in every attack, it's missing in a few. Also, damage for the set beyond specials seems quite low, I'd up everything a few percent since Steve isn't really a "speedy rushdown combo" character and would definitely appreciate some meatier normals. The smashes, while low on damage, give Steve some stuff he's much better off for having; A nice, simple projectile, a genuine kill move, and some damage based stage control (along with a good OoS option)
Aerials are good, but I'm VERY impressed with Down Air sending you downwards if you're fast falling unlike how it normally bounces you up. That's immensely useful, but something I never would have thought up. The Z-Air is quite good too, but I am curious on the amount of lag you and the hitstun the opponent is put in, when Steve is dragged to them. That would influence pretty heavily what stuff he can combo with after that hit and mentioning what is and isn't a true combo there would be a nice detail.
Grabs are probably the weakest part of the set. The details on knockback are vague, and Back Throw doesn't actually mention the damage it deals. You do seem to know the basic kinds of throw smash employs (combo, spacer, KO, bury, etc.) but they could use a lot more details, like how the bury throw mentions Up Smash as a good followup.
So to finish up, I was reading Playstyle and you mentioned Steve has pretty poor frame-data. I really didn't get that from the set, and I'd go back and mention how these attacks of his are on the slower end. You don't have to give exact frame data or anything, just mention the speed of stuff more often (IE it's slightly fast, a bit on the laggier end, etc.) I also appreciate the extras (especially the Kirby, looks great) and creative Final Smash.
Overall, pretty decent set, you have pretty good ideas that just need more expositing, and you'd be golden.
Misko
Of your non-Kilton sets, this is the one I ended up enjoying the most. The set's core concept of spreading fire to things being pretty much universally good is actually something I enjoy a lot, I know a lot of times when sets mess with fire in a similar way they kind of bog it down in "this is okay to set on fire, this isn't" and it makes the set feel a lot clunkier and less fun. Here, you want your torch on fire, you want your food on fire because that cooks it, you want your sword on fire when that mechanic kicks in, and even sometimes you want the fire to hit your barrels. Not all the time, mind you, the barrels are the one factor where actually controlling the fire matters, but that's good because having at least something to not want it spreading for means there's some strategy to the fire beyond "how do I spread this". If that sounds contradictory with the first point, its partially fine because you can always just not use the barrel if you don't want to worry about the risk it provides and its one element of many you can concern yourself with. I think one of my favorite things to do with the fire is combining it with the breakable spear you can get from the chest to try to land both a flaming and breaking spear on the opponent for a super powerful hitbox. The set gives Misko a surprising amount of options for "hard to set up but really strong payoff" scenarios, like the one with the arrow on Bair, that I happen to enjoy a lot while never reaching the point the whole set feels impractical.
I definitely have my complaints with the set, while it has some options to allow you to style on foes very hard and a centralizing core with the fire, the set kind of branches off in a ton of different directions. The torch, the chest items, whether you want your fire sword on or off, the lanterns, the bomb barrels that you specifically want to move around with the non-flammable spear, these things are generally decent material. I think juggling all of them at once is something the set is not equipped for, the torch in particular feels like something that should not have been trapped to only three moves to make Misko more predictable if he wants to chain hits with it, but not as hilariously predictable as he is right now when basically everything he does with the torch is the exact same. Doesn't give it much depth to its use too. There's also the arrow, which has a very cool application on Bair, but it feels a bit random to have a specific item that only gets its payoff on Bair for playstyle relevance. Its not handled as badly as I make it sound give you can just throw it, but it feels pretty bizarre. I'm not too fond of the obscuring smoke in general, for reasons I think I might've said in chat with Nabbit, it basically just makes a guessing game and takes out the foe's ability to play against you properly, even if its made a lot less annoying by its short duration.
At this point I'm just nitpicking, but I figure I'll talk about the treasure chest since some of the problems are easily fixable. The spear and arrow are pretty good, and I'm fine with the food items as another fire-based reward, but the apple and bird drumstick are absolute garbage as treasure chest rewards go. Needing to commit to two slashes to get 3% out of the bird drumstick is a comical amount of commitment for such a small heal, and the apple heals either 0.2% or 1,2%, which is such a laughable amount of healing it may as well not happen. I also kinda wish it just came from being hit by fire rather than a certain number of flame sword hits to flow a bit better with the set's other options, and for that matter, I think the treasure chest could afford to not be random chance based. I get the idea behind it flavor-wise, but it would be a lot less annoying to get screwed over by getting apples over the more interesting spear or arrow if you could just charge the move X amount to choose you result instead.
Still, this is a pretty fun read and I found it surprisingly never feels like all the nitpicks I've mentioned ever really break anything, they're just that. Nitpicks preventing the set from being deeper or as fun as it could be. It shows you clearly have a good idea of how to make interesting sets by now, just that there's work to be done on ironing out individual flaws.
Of your non-Kilton sets, this is the one I ended up enjoying the most. The set's core concept of spreading fire to things being pretty much universally good is actually something I enjoy a lot, I know a lot of times when sets mess with fire in a similar way they kind of bog it down in "this is okay to set on fire, this isn't" and it makes the set feel a lot clunkier and less fun. Here, you want your torch on fire, you want your food on fire because that cooks it, you want your sword on fire when that mechanic kicks in, and even sometimes you want the fire to hit your barrels. Not all the time, mind you, the barrels are the one factor where actually controlling the fire matters, but that's good because having at least something to not want it spreading for means there's some strategy to the fire beyond "how do I spread this". If that sounds contradictory with the first point, its partially fine because you can always just not use the barrel if you don't want to worry about the risk it provides and its one element of many you can concern yourself with. I think one of my favorite things to do with the fire is combining it with the breakable spear you can get from the chest to try to land both a flaming and breaking spear on the opponent for a super powerful hitbox. The set gives Misko a surprising amount of options for "hard to set up but really strong payoff" scenarios, like the one with the arrow on Bair, that I happen to enjoy a lot while never reaching the point the whole set feels impractical.
I definitely have my complaints with the set, while it has some options to allow you to style on foes very hard and a centralizing core with the fire, the set kind of branches off in a ton of different directions. The torch, the chest items, whether you want your fire sword on or off, the lanterns, the bomb barrels that you specifically want to move around with the non-flammable spear, these things are generally decent material. I think juggling all of them at once is something the set is not equipped for, the torch in particular feels like something that should not have been trapped to only three moves to make Misko more predictable if he wants to chain hits with it, but not as hilariously predictable as he is right now when basically everything he does with the torch is the exact same. Doesn't give it much depth to its use too. There's also the arrow, which has a very cool application on Bair, but it feels a bit random to have a specific item that only gets its payoff on Bair for playstyle relevance. Its not handled as badly as I make it sound give you can just throw it, but it feels pretty bizarre. I'm not too fond of the obscuring smoke in general, for reasons I think I might've said in chat with Nabbit, it basically just makes a guessing game and takes out the foe's ability to play against you properly, even if its made a lot less annoying by its short duration.
At this point I'm just nitpicking, but I figure I'll talk about the treasure chest since some of the problems are easily fixable. The spear and arrow are pretty good, and I'm fine with the food items as another fire-based reward, but the apple and bird drumstick are absolute garbage as treasure chest rewards go. Needing to commit to two slashes to get 3% out of the bird drumstick is a comical amount of commitment for such a small heal, and the apple heals either 0.2% or 1,2%, which is such a laughable amount of healing it may as well not happen. I also kinda wish it just came from being hit by fire rather than a certain number of flame sword hits to flow a bit better with the set's other options, and for that matter, I think the treasure chest could afford to not be random chance based. I get the idea behind it flavor-wise, but it would be a lot less annoying to get screwed over by getting apples over the more interesting spear or arrow if you could just charge the move X amount to choose you result instead.
Still, this is a pretty fun read and I found it surprisingly never feels like all the nitpicks I've mentioned ever really break anything, they're just that. Nitpicks preventing the set from being deeper or as fun as it could be. It shows you clearly have a good idea of how to make interesting sets by now, just that there's work to be done on ironing out individual flaws.
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The Bee's Knees (Honey Witch Eleanor by UserShadow7989)
or "I heard this set was pretty sweet, so I popped by to see what the buzz was all about!"
No really, I've heard a lot of the witches already and seeing you talk about it in the Discord definitely peaked my interest, and when it appeared on my reading list of MYM21 Canon, I rushed to finally check it out and it didn't disappoint.
In fact, the simple-but-sweet-but-also-deep-and-complicated interaction between the Honey and the Swarm is the best set core I've read thus far. The Honey sticks throughout the set and the Swarm is a good blend between simple obstacle, minion and controllable disjoint. The concept is easy to grasp. The Swarm is a source of damage and it's up to Eleanor to control it and manipulate the AI with the Honey.
On the other hand, the concept is also hard to master, but it always feels like you can master it, which is a big feat since we're talking about a mostly AI-controlled mechanic here.
Mostly everything is covered with just a few moves. For direct control, there's Up Special and the Glue Orb. For brief recalibrations, there's Honey puddles, and Eleanor's staff. There wasn't a degree in minion control I "missed", so to speak.
The Side Special is a nice buffing move and making Honey universally applicable through one move means it doesn't clutter up the rest of the set, although if I read it correctly, the charge is knocked out of Ellie if she's hit? I assume it works similar to Samus's Charge Shot where she loses the charge if she's hit during the charge, instead of losing a fully charged and stored Side Special upon being hit.
While the Specials shine in providing the needed options, the melee toes the line with both fun and enriching mechanics, like the Forward Tilt, Forward Smash, Up Smash, and Down Smash (combining the quintessential delete button with a Smash is a good solution and it doesn't detract from the Smash), but also some options provided by the normals that range from harmless yet unneccesary (Up Tilt's extra swarm, Back Air's multikick, Down Smash's suction) to being a bit cluttery and detracting from the golden core set (Neutral Air's projectile dash, Forward Air's projectile)
While the extra options are nice and most of them either add significantly to Eleanor's mechanic or are harmless in their simplicity, the times it oversteps that line can make the set a bit grating to read and be a bit too much sweetness.
That said, the times when it does nail the line is when the set has its best interactions. Two Smashes directly spreading its effect to the Honey Puddles is really good for stage control and both Forward Tilt and Forward Smash capitalise off of the reflect Eleanor has.
All around, definitely a recipe for succes, but it occasionally goes overboard with the flavors in my taste
or "I heard this set was pretty sweet, so I popped by to see what the buzz was all about!"
No really, I've heard a lot of the witches already and seeing you talk about it in the Discord definitely peaked my interest, and when it appeared on my reading list of MYM21 Canon, I rushed to finally check it out and it didn't disappoint.
In fact, the simple-but-sweet-but-also-deep-and-complicated interaction between the Honey and the Swarm is the best set core I've read thus far. The Honey sticks throughout the set and the Swarm is a good blend between simple obstacle, minion and controllable disjoint. The concept is easy to grasp. The Swarm is a source of damage and it's up to Eleanor to control it and manipulate the AI with the Honey.
On the other hand, the concept is also hard to master, but it always feels like you can master it, which is a big feat since we're talking about a mostly AI-controlled mechanic here.
Mostly everything is covered with just a few moves. For direct control, there's Up Special and the Glue Orb. For brief recalibrations, there's Honey puddles, and Eleanor's staff. There wasn't a degree in minion control I "missed", so to speak.
The Side Special is a nice buffing move and making Honey universally applicable through one move means it doesn't clutter up the rest of the set, although if I read it correctly, the charge is knocked out of Ellie if she's hit? I assume it works similar to Samus's Charge Shot where she loses the charge if she's hit during the charge, instead of losing a fully charged and stored Side Special upon being hit.
While the Specials shine in providing the needed options, the melee toes the line with both fun and enriching mechanics, like the Forward Tilt, Forward Smash, Up Smash, and Down Smash (combining the quintessential delete button with a Smash is a good solution and it doesn't detract from the Smash), but also some options provided by the normals that range from harmless yet unneccesary (Up Tilt's extra swarm, Back Air's multikick, Down Smash's suction) to being a bit cluttery and detracting from the golden core set (Neutral Air's projectile dash, Forward Air's projectile)
While the extra options are nice and most of them either add significantly to Eleanor's mechanic or are harmless in their simplicity, the times it oversteps that line can make the set a bit grating to read and be a bit too much sweetness.
That said, the times when it does nail the line is when the set has its best interactions. Two Smashes directly spreading its effect to the Honey Puddles is really good for stage control and both Forward Tilt and Forward Smash capitalise off of the reflect Eleanor has.
All around, definitely a recipe for succes, but it occasionally goes overboard with the flavors in my taste
Hollow Knight
Its been a while since you've made a set and you admittedly could've come back on a worse note than Hollow Knight. Its a very basic meter based set, with satisfyingly powerful results for cashing in on a full meter in the specials so if nothing else it actually feels worth building up, and the set has solid presentation and animations. Ironically though, I think the set ended up going overboard on giving payoff, with attacks expending meter frequently capable of dealing in excess of 50% with low KO percentages, or, more terrifyingly, outright healing 40%. Its not like the Knight is terribly weak or starved for KO options when its down(FSmash strikes me as pretty extreme in terms of power for a small lightweight like this character), and the meter fills reasonably fast so its not that hard to pull off the big, full meter versions if you just save up a little. The set also doesn't really provide as much substance to gathering meter as I'd like, you could at least make him have to weigh between more damaging options and less effective but more effective for power building ones, the set not really having to make any strategic decisions around the meter except what to spend it on. The set could also really afford to spend more time talking about how attacks work together beyond just the absolute basics and how much meter it builds, ultimately leading to a set I find hard to envision the actual playstyle of, and what is there isn't the most inspiring. Its a nice looking set at least, so I can at least say in terms of feeling satisfying to read and utilizing the series' fairly strong animation-style, you've done well enough.
Its been a while since you've made a set and you admittedly could've come back on a worse note than Hollow Knight. Its a very basic meter based set, with satisfyingly powerful results for cashing in on a full meter in the specials so if nothing else it actually feels worth building up, and the set has solid presentation and animations. Ironically though, I think the set ended up going overboard on giving payoff, with attacks expending meter frequently capable of dealing in excess of 50% with low KO percentages, or, more terrifyingly, outright healing 40%. Its not like the Knight is terribly weak or starved for KO options when its down(FSmash strikes me as pretty extreme in terms of power for a small lightweight like this character), and the meter fills reasonably fast so its not that hard to pull off the big, full meter versions if you just save up a little. The set also doesn't really provide as much substance to gathering meter as I'd like, you could at least make him have to weigh between more damaging options and less effective but more effective for power building ones, the set not really having to make any strategic decisions around the meter except what to spend it on. The set could also really afford to spend more time talking about how attacks work together beyond just the absolute basics and how much meter it builds, ultimately leading to a set I find hard to envision the actual playstyle of, and what is there isn't the most inspiring. Its a nice looking set at least, so I can at least say in terms of feeling satisfying to read and utilizing the series' fairly strong animation-style, you've done well enough.
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Himiko is the first Katapultar set I've read this contest that really screams Kat and it's a very good set. The set covers a girth of options for the player within, like, every move, and the clear love for the character shines all the way through to the very important Dio matchup at the bottom of the set. The use of Toga's Quirk is radical; only copying the physical moves and limiting the special usage keeps her from being too mirror-matchy even while literally mirroring the opponent which I really like. It's a smart solution to allowing her to keep her own kit intact while also giving her access to the foe's whole set, working well with the 'sudden burst' playstyle she works around. The mechanic for how long she can stay is well balanced, allowing her to very easily build up her timer while also requiring her to play the game to gain it. It's weird to spend like an entire paragraph just ranting about the first move in the set, but the way Toga gains access to all of the foe's minions and constructions is a great emulation of the distrust that she is known for forming among people, and is, again, well balanced as she has to stop attacking the foe to mess up their setup while still benefiting from it. The dynamic tear for foes and Toga regarding buffs and power levels is a great concept too because it puts that choice in both players' hands and it's rare to get a mechanic like that where it really is double-edged in a good way.
While the main star of the specials is Transform, her Up Special "I'm Toga" has such insane depth for an Up Special that it deserves special mention as well, with multiple choices for Toga to make throughout the move along with the command grab that make the move act like the World's Best Falcon Dive. The Up Special has a whole mechanic with the blood splatter refreshing her queue, which on 99% of sets would be a horrible place to put that mechanic, but because Toga has so many mobility options from this move she can pull it off about from anywhere. The tether and the knife attacks are pretty simple when compared to the previous moves, but this it works great; the tether does its two jobs very simply and well, allowing it draw blood and keep Toga facing the opponent at all times, and the knives are great for drawing blood quickly and safely. It's a great set of specials for a character who wouldn't seem to have that much potential at face value. While normally just having a weak standard game as a balance to whatever mechanic (in this case collecting blood and racking damage for Transform) is a boring way of balance since it just makes a character weaker for the sake of a few moves, Toga has the privilege of using Transform to get much better standards when she needs them, and when she doesn't need those stronger moves she can go back to her own kit to work on drawing blood and the like. Down Smash is one of the cooler Smashes I've seen and I'm pretty sure the only one I've seen that comes out before charging which is very cool. Even within the Grab Game her Down Throw essentially just becomes another Grab Game, and it's just so impressively built as a set that the few short moves don't even feel bad because they lend themselves to giving the reader a little break.
As much as I love the set, I do still have a few issues with it. First, and probably my biggest, is that Chu Chu gets weirdly complicated at one point for, I think, little payoff. Right after the GIF of Tsu and Toga, it talks about essentially pinning the foe with Himiko's needles (which I do like), but has the weird visual of Himiko curving the move which I think is one of the few totally unnecessary choices in the set. The big reward for landing these hits is slamming foes against the surfaces of stages, which is primarily why she has the ability to curve the attack because walls are pretty rare around stages. It's a weird effect that doesn't flow with the rest of the set in terms of both style and function, I think, with Himiko having cooler ways of putting foes into positions. A Corrin-style pin could be something fun with this move, allowing perhaps blood to be drawn through the needles without having to worry about the tether breaking or anything similar. Despite this, the rest of the set really does shine in inspiration and design. There's a clear amount of love for the set and character and it's a very fun read, and the links throughout the set to things like Stale Move Negation are very welcomed. Definitely one of the better sets I've read this contest!
While the main star of the specials is Transform, her Up Special "I'm Toga" has such insane depth for an Up Special that it deserves special mention as well, with multiple choices for Toga to make throughout the move along with the command grab that make the move act like the World's Best Falcon Dive. The Up Special has a whole mechanic with the blood splatter refreshing her queue, which on 99% of sets would be a horrible place to put that mechanic, but because Toga has so many mobility options from this move she can pull it off about from anywhere. The tether and the knife attacks are pretty simple when compared to the previous moves, but this it works great; the tether does its two jobs very simply and well, allowing it draw blood and keep Toga facing the opponent at all times, and the knives are great for drawing blood quickly and safely. It's a great set of specials for a character who wouldn't seem to have that much potential at face value. While normally just having a weak standard game as a balance to whatever mechanic (in this case collecting blood and racking damage for Transform) is a boring way of balance since it just makes a character weaker for the sake of a few moves, Toga has the privilege of using Transform to get much better standards when she needs them, and when she doesn't need those stronger moves she can go back to her own kit to work on drawing blood and the like. Down Smash is one of the cooler Smashes I've seen and I'm pretty sure the only one I've seen that comes out before charging which is very cool. Even within the Grab Game her Down Throw essentially just becomes another Grab Game, and it's just so impressively built as a set that the few short moves don't even feel bad because they lend themselves to giving the reader a little break.
As much as I love the set, I do still have a few issues with it. First, and probably my biggest, is that Chu Chu gets weirdly complicated at one point for, I think, little payoff. Right after the GIF of Tsu and Toga, it talks about essentially pinning the foe with Himiko's needles (which I do like), but has the weird visual of Himiko curving the move which I think is one of the few totally unnecessary choices in the set. The big reward for landing these hits is slamming foes against the surfaces of stages, which is primarily why she has the ability to curve the attack because walls are pretty rare around stages. It's a weird effect that doesn't flow with the rest of the set in terms of both style and function, I think, with Himiko having cooler ways of putting foes into positions. A Corrin-style pin could be something fun with this move, allowing perhaps blood to be drawn through the needles without having to worry about the tether breaking or anything similar. Despite this, the rest of the set really does shine in inspiration and design. There's a clear amount of love for the set and character and it's a very fun read, and the links throughout the set to things like Stale Move Negation are very welcomed. Definitely one of the better sets I've read this contest!
Welcome Ultomato! I was in the same spot as you when I just joined-- was always the idea guy who loved Smash's ideas but wished more series like it were around so even more cool characters could get the Smash treatment. So, from a newbie to another newbie, I'll pass along some tips I've gathered from my short time here.
FAWFUL
The first thing I'd mention is formatting. Personally, I and most of the newer members use google docs as it is a quick, simple way to make everything look pretty. However, if you want to stick to the forum's layouts, I believe some of the leaders have prefab formating things you can paste into the post section and fill out for your sets. Readability is important and I'm glad you've separated stuff out into spoilers, but making stuff pretty can add to a set as well. Also, before I get to any standout moves or general tips, one final suggestion for the beginning is clarify where these stats are from. Smash Ultimate? Smash 4? Also, are these the ingame values as datamined by Kurogane? I assume so, but it'd be nice to clarify, maybe add in who's value each stat is closest to.
Vacuum is an interesting move, fits the character, but mashing out is mentioned without clarifying how hard that is. Is it standard grab difficulty? If so, at a set grab percent, or relative to the opponent's current percent when grabbed like normal grabs? Also, a move like this, forcefully ejecting someone after forcing them into a small space not doing damage is a bit odd. Also, while I like making them smaller as an idea, I feel the laser blast would be harder to hit on a mini opponent, making it less useful if you hit Neutral B. Maybe make it a ground traveling projectile? Interactions between specials are an important part of making a Smash character unique and special.
Minor nitpick with Up B-- while I love the idea of Fawful having super armor but his hat not having it, being able to use one's aerials means you aren't in special fall, you've just used up your jumps and Up B use. Also, while I think I like the idea of Dark Beam, it's been mentioned in the chat that it really is a balance nightmare. Reading through the smashes I have a few general tips to mention before I get into two specific issues I have. Firstly, a move's knockback, it's angle and strength both, should always be mentioned along with damage and at least a general impression of speed. You seem to have all of that down except knockback. Also, what use a move's been created to do should be mentioned as well, either in the move's description or in the playstyle section. Finally, the two specific issues I had with the smashes were for Up Smash (I don't understand how or why people are kept in place simply by touching this attack's charging hitbox) and Down Smash (45 frames is 3/4ths of the way to a full second, which is a huge amount of start up, even more than Ike's F-Smash. It oughta do amazing damage and knockback if that's the case.)
The aerials are all quite short, and don't really mention range or landing lag. Something odd also, you mention that N-air can't be used in the semi-special fall state, but no other moves have that limitation. Odd considering every other move beside F-air still uses the helmet. Tilts and grabs are short too, and grabs especially could use some work to make them more unique considering the really good animations you have for Fawful before like him whipping his cape about and such. Overall the set is a good start, but I feel like you need a lot more details in terms of descriptions of the moves, their interactions with each others, their uses, etc.
FAWFUL
The first thing I'd mention is formatting. Personally, I and most of the newer members use google docs as it is a quick, simple way to make everything look pretty. However, if you want to stick to the forum's layouts, I believe some of the leaders have prefab formating things you can paste into the post section and fill out for your sets. Readability is important and I'm glad you've separated stuff out into spoilers, but making stuff pretty can add to a set as well. Also, before I get to any standout moves or general tips, one final suggestion for the beginning is clarify where these stats are from. Smash Ultimate? Smash 4? Also, are these the ingame values as datamined by Kurogane? I assume so, but it'd be nice to clarify, maybe add in who's value each stat is closest to.
Vacuum is an interesting move, fits the character, but mashing out is mentioned without clarifying how hard that is. Is it standard grab difficulty? If so, at a set grab percent, or relative to the opponent's current percent when grabbed like normal grabs? Also, a move like this, forcefully ejecting someone after forcing them into a small space not doing damage is a bit odd. Also, while I like making them smaller as an idea, I feel the laser blast would be harder to hit on a mini opponent, making it less useful if you hit Neutral B. Maybe make it a ground traveling projectile? Interactions between specials are an important part of making a Smash character unique and special.
Minor nitpick with Up B-- while I love the idea of Fawful having super armor but his hat not having it, being able to use one's aerials means you aren't in special fall, you've just used up your jumps and Up B use. Also, while I think I like the idea of Dark Beam, it's been mentioned in the chat that it really is a balance nightmare. Reading through the smashes I have a few general tips to mention before I get into two specific issues I have. Firstly, a move's knockback, it's angle and strength both, should always be mentioned along with damage and at least a general impression of speed. You seem to have all of that down except knockback. Also, what use a move's been created to do should be mentioned as well, either in the move's description or in the playstyle section. Finally, the two specific issues I had with the smashes were for Up Smash (I don't understand how or why people are kept in place simply by touching this attack's charging hitbox) and Down Smash (45 frames is 3/4ths of the way to a full second, which is a huge amount of start up, even more than Ike's F-Smash. It oughta do amazing damage and knockback if that's the case.)
The aerials are all quite short, and don't really mention range or landing lag. Something odd also, you mention that N-air can't be used in the semi-special fall state, but no other moves have that limitation. Odd considering every other move beside F-air still uses the helmet. Tilts and grabs are short too, and grabs especially could use some work to make them more unique considering the really good animations you have for Fawful before like him whipping his cape about and such. Overall the set is a good start, but I feel like you need a lot more details in terms of descriptions of the moves, their interactions with each others, their uses, etc.
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Okay, time for my first MYM comment, I guess...
Weavile by PeridotGX
Firstly I wanna say that Weavile is one of my favourite Pokemon and it's a real shame his pokeball was removed. I played a shifter during my last DnD session and when picking a "fast animal", I accidentially said Weavile and my DM allowed it.
So I may be a bit biased towards this mon, but I'll try to be constructive.
The playstyle you describe for him reminds me strongly of his Pokken playstyle. Rush in for high-risk-high-reward combo's, or play carefully on chip damage.
The first issue I came across was very similar to the main issue of my Fawful set, namely the neutral B, hail. You specifically say there is no cap in how long you can charge it, meaning you can throw people off the stage, run away and charge (and apperently Weavile runs really fast so you have plenty of time to charge). No cap to the charge alongside Weaviles ability to run away with ease and sit on the other side of the stage to charge it can easily net a skilled player 10 seconds of charge time, meaning you get 5 seconds of a cloud the size of half a stage on ground level (it's pretty big) that deals damage through shield meaning that fighting Weavile means you get 15,5% of hard to avoid damage every time you try to get back onto the stage. The cloud doesn't seem to be very high, so jumping out of it may be an option, but a very predictable one.
False Swipe, the side-B, has balancing issues as well. You don't specify how long an opponent is stunned but if it's as long as with a broken shield and the move goes as fast and as far as Fox-illusion, you've created... actually just a faster Splat-Roller, which sounds amazingly overpowered.
The upB I loved. The concept is original, it's gimpable but not too vulnerable and you remembered to put in a way to prevent people from waiting in the charge-state too long, showing me you knew exactly what problems this move might have when you were creating it.
The down-B, taunt, poses another issue. You say it's "more strict than other counters" and that you have to hit him "exactly when he uses it" to activate it. Does this mean frame perfect? Because that makes the move unusable for 99% of players. The effect of the "counter" are questionable as well. Yes, you can punish quite quickly since you can cancel taunts in Ultimate, but some characters rely way more on their specials for their playstyle than others. A Samus hit by this move will be in complete panic for 5 seconds while Ike will barely even notice it.
Conceptually I love it. Interpreting Taunt as a counter is right out of Pokken without copying the actual properties of the move, but I don't think this move would see any use outside of gimping bad players, which is very situational.
The Smash attacks were very straight forward and not very original. You also didn't mention any knockback values so I don't really know what purpose the smash attacks have. The throws weren't described at all and most of the tilts and aerials are very stale. I'd also like to know what these "high percents" are at which the F-tilt freezes.
The dash attack though. I love that. The effect of stealing items. While that can be broken in casual play, most gimmicky moves are, so I don't mind that. In competitive play, it's very situational as well, but not so much that it's useless. Just a generic dash-attack that gives him a clear advantage in certain matchups.
Overall, I love Weavile conceptually.
The execution, however, leaves much to be desired.
Man, I feel like a **** now...
p.s. I'd like to point out a mistake you made. Lucario counters with Double Team, Greninja with Substitute.
Weavile by PeridotGX
Firstly I wanna say that Weavile is one of my favourite Pokemon and it's a real shame his pokeball was removed. I played a shifter during my last DnD session and when picking a "fast animal", I accidentially said Weavile and my DM allowed it.
So I may be a bit biased towards this mon, but I'll try to be constructive.
The playstyle you describe for him reminds me strongly of his Pokken playstyle. Rush in for high-risk-high-reward combo's, or play carefully on chip damage.
The first issue I came across was very similar to the main issue of my Fawful set, namely the neutral B, hail. You specifically say there is no cap in how long you can charge it, meaning you can throw people off the stage, run away and charge (and apperently Weavile runs really fast so you have plenty of time to charge). No cap to the charge alongside Weaviles ability to run away with ease and sit on the other side of the stage to charge it can easily net a skilled player 10 seconds of charge time, meaning you get 5 seconds of a cloud the size of half a stage on ground level (it's pretty big) that deals damage through shield meaning that fighting Weavile means you get 15,5% of hard to avoid damage every time you try to get back onto the stage. The cloud doesn't seem to be very high, so jumping out of it may be an option, but a very predictable one.
False Swipe, the side-B, has balancing issues as well. You don't specify how long an opponent is stunned but if it's as long as with a broken shield and the move goes as fast and as far as Fox-illusion, you've created... actually just a faster Splat-Roller, which sounds amazingly overpowered.
The upB I loved. The concept is original, it's gimpable but not too vulnerable and you remembered to put in a way to prevent people from waiting in the charge-state too long, showing me you knew exactly what problems this move might have when you were creating it.
The down-B, taunt, poses another issue. You say it's "more strict than other counters" and that you have to hit him "exactly when he uses it" to activate it. Does this mean frame perfect? Because that makes the move unusable for 99% of players. The effect of the "counter" are questionable as well. Yes, you can punish quite quickly since you can cancel taunts in Ultimate, but some characters rely way more on their specials for their playstyle than others. A Samus hit by this move will be in complete panic for 5 seconds while Ike will barely even notice it.
Conceptually I love it. Interpreting Taunt as a counter is right out of Pokken without copying the actual properties of the move, but I don't think this move would see any use outside of gimping bad players, which is very situational.
The Smash attacks were very straight forward and not very original. You also didn't mention any knockback values so I don't really know what purpose the smash attacks have. The throws weren't described at all and most of the tilts and aerials are very stale. I'd also like to know what these "high percents" are at which the F-tilt freezes.
The dash attack though. I love that. The effect of stealing items. While that can be broken in casual play, most gimmicky moves are, so I don't mind that. In competitive play, it's very situational as well, but not so much that it's useless. Just a generic dash-attack that gives him a clear advantage in certain matchups.
Overall, I love Weavile conceptually.
The execution, however, leaves much to be desired.
Man, I feel like a **** now...
p.s. I'd like to point out a mistake you made. Lucario counters with Double Team, Greninja with Substitute.
King K. Amoshida
Kamoshida was a character I was highly excited for, and Smady has mostly not disappointed on it! The set's take on the character is very interesting considering how unfeasible his boss form would be as a set, and it instead decides to mostly play up the volleyball aspect of the character, something that works and is pretty unique. I appreciate that the boss form's attacks are still here, only now with unique weapons to cover what human Kamoshida can't do. The demons are also a fun gimmick, and a decent amount of the set plays off of it. In general, most of it is pretty danged good.
...But there's also a lot of noticeable flaws. As one might expect from a set that was pumped out in 2 days, there's quite a few, sometimes very funny typos. Those by themselves aren't a major problem, but definitely worth pointing out. The actual issues I have are some of the bigger writing problems. The main one worth pointing out is with Archangel, which describes itself as having two spell attacks and a sword attack... but only has three spell attacks actually described. I'm willing this was more due to it being a bit rushed, rather than any actual laziness.
The actual biggest problem comes down to the Side Special, and its an issue that isn't easily solved. The sspec's secondary function is a bit unintuitive for how important it is to the set, and has no thematic link to the rest of the special to give any excuse. It very obviously should be put on a throw, preferably the guillotine one (Which is cool, don't get me wrong, but feels out of place with some of the rest of the set), and just excised from the sspec entirely. Of course, the issue here is that the ball and chain is very important, and is brought up a lot, meaning that putting it at the end of the set would mean a lot of important text dumped right at the end. I don't really have any suggestions on how to fix it, but it is something I feel brings the set down a bit.
Also, DThrow. Volleyball is not basketball.
Kamoshida was a character I was highly excited for, and Smady has mostly not disappointed on it! The set's take on the character is very interesting considering how unfeasible his boss form would be as a set, and it instead decides to mostly play up the volleyball aspect of the character, something that works and is pretty unique. I appreciate that the boss form's attacks are still here, only now with unique weapons to cover what human Kamoshida can't do. The demons are also a fun gimmick, and a decent amount of the set plays off of it. In general, most of it is pretty danged good.
...But there's also a lot of noticeable flaws. As one might expect from a set that was pumped out in 2 days, there's quite a few, sometimes very funny typos. Those by themselves aren't a major problem, but definitely worth pointing out. The actual issues I have are some of the bigger writing problems. The main one worth pointing out is with Archangel, which describes itself as having two spell attacks and a sword attack... but only has three spell attacks actually described. I'm willing this was more due to it being a bit rushed, rather than any actual laziness.
The actual biggest problem comes down to the Side Special, and its an issue that isn't easily solved. The sspec's secondary function is a bit unintuitive for how important it is to the set, and has no thematic link to the rest of the special to give any excuse. It very obviously should be put on a throw, preferably the guillotine one (Which is cool, don't get me wrong, but feels out of place with some of the rest of the set), and just excised from the sspec entirely. Of course, the issue here is that the ball and chain is very important, and is brought up a lot, meaning that putting it at the end of the set would mean a lot of important text dumped right at the end. I don't really have any suggestions on how to fix it, but it is something I feel brings the set down a bit.
Also, DThrow. Volleyball is not basketball.
Kamoshida
With a general decline in the amount of minions I've seen this contest, Kamoshida's take on them is really refreshing and good. The set starts out with a core concept of a rebounding projectile, slaves to play volleyball with your projectiles to keep them in play, and a spectacular finisher on Up Special where you launch all of them in an incredibly powerful state back onto the stage to create mass pandemonium. What really sold me on it though was the demons, with every single one of them having a good mechanic for influencing Kamoshida's projectile game. From the many targets the Pyro Jacks create, the kelpie's ability to store and redirect projectiles, the unique contribution of Andras' "time bomb"-like effect to your bullet hell and minion buffs, the Archangel's Vajra Blast walls, and Eligor's double targets and highly threatening presence all each provide a valuable, unique contribution that I feel minion sets that provide several minions often fail to do. Its a really strong core that makes a genre I often find myself getting bored of(projectile redirection) manage to feel fresh and enjoyable to read.
Honestly, the execution from that point on is one I rarely held issue with. Kamoshida plays off his volleyball and minions in very satisfying ways, definently getting into some very wacky interactions but they never feel too impractical or like they don't serve the set by adding an appopriate amount of depth. I think my actual favorite move might be the Up Throw of all things, because its a really exciting way to use all the volleyballs you have left on stage and seems like visually it would be exceptionally satisfying to pull off. Also really enjoyed the Forward Tilt's contributions to the projectile game, the Down Throw's ability to use all your projectile-related stuff on the foe, basically all the Smashes, Nair's ability to hook onto things to further your air game, there's a shocking number of standout moves in this set and they all honestly flow together pretty well. The set has a decent few options to remain practical too, so its not always delving into crazy things on every move and stays just grounded enough for all the fun its having. I even really like the characterization, fully showcasing how much of an abusive monster Kamoshida is on his minions and with some fun writing relating to his status as a teacher/coach. You probably specifically intended those goofy physics comments for me and I did enjoy them. If I were to complain about one thing, the set might be a bit overtuned right now given how many projectiles the set can have out at once based on setups that don't seem THAT hard at times, but it doesn't really feel downright unfair. Fantastic set, definitely up there with Ulrich for one of my favorites in the contest.
With a general decline in the amount of minions I've seen this contest, Kamoshida's take on them is really refreshing and good. The set starts out with a core concept of a rebounding projectile, slaves to play volleyball with your projectiles to keep them in play, and a spectacular finisher on Up Special where you launch all of them in an incredibly powerful state back onto the stage to create mass pandemonium. What really sold me on it though was the demons, with every single one of them having a good mechanic for influencing Kamoshida's projectile game. From the many targets the Pyro Jacks create, the kelpie's ability to store and redirect projectiles, the unique contribution of Andras' "time bomb"-like effect to your bullet hell and minion buffs, the Archangel's Vajra Blast walls, and Eligor's double targets and highly threatening presence all each provide a valuable, unique contribution that I feel minion sets that provide several minions often fail to do. Its a really strong core that makes a genre I often find myself getting bored of(projectile redirection) manage to feel fresh and enjoyable to read.
Honestly, the execution from that point on is one I rarely held issue with. Kamoshida plays off his volleyball and minions in very satisfying ways, definently getting into some very wacky interactions but they never feel too impractical or like they don't serve the set by adding an appopriate amount of depth. I think my actual favorite move might be the Up Throw of all things, because its a really exciting way to use all the volleyballs you have left on stage and seems like visually it would be exceptionally satisfying to pull off. Also really enjoyed the Forward Tilt's contributions to the projectile game, the Down Throw's ability to use all your projectile-related stuff on the foe, basically all the Smashes, Nair's ability to hook onto things to further your air game, there's a shocking number of standout moves in this set and they all honestly flow together pretty well. The set has a decent few options to remain practical too, so its not always delving into crazy things on every move and stays just grounded enough for all the fun its having. I even really like the characterization, fully showcasing how much of an abusive monster Kamoshida is on his minions and with some fun writing relating to his status as a teacher/coach. You probably specifically intended those goofy physics comments for me and I did enjoy them. If I were to complain about one thing, the set might be a bit overtuned right now given how many projectiles the set can have out at once based on setups that don't seem THAT hard at times, but it doesn't really feel downright unfair. Fantastic set, definitely up there with Ulrich for one of my favorites in the contest.
Going for the gold (Kamoshida by Smash Daddy)
It's impressive how many genres this set threads on at once. Not only is Kamoshida a projectile-set, there's also minions and even some stage control with Down Smash's Grape Juice Cup (And a bunch of different elements being introduced with one-off moves as well)
That said, it doesn't feel like there's a split between those different playstyles since they flow together naturally into one big pandemonium of bullying and abusive stage control.
The formatting in this set is a bit overwhelming, in the sense that I already felt satisfied with the mechanics present after the Smashes, if not outright stuffed. with Down Smash especially overflowing with seemingly superficial extras like the traction wine or the Christ blood FLUDD.
The moves after that seem to keep the amount of extras down, slowly simmering out.
The core was great though. Flinging around minions is always fun.
Some stray thoughts:
-Back Throw might be too powerful?
-I liked the made-up weapons, they work well as replacements for the Asmodeus boss fight and they inhabit a specific niche in the set as ball slinger and projectile usurping trident respectively
-Balance-wise, it might be a bit heavy on the bullet hell side, but since it seems to be specific set-ups being emphasised it's more for style rather than practical
-Flavor-wise, it's great. The writing is witty and fitting for a grotesque tyran like Kamo
It's impressive how many genres this set threads on at once. Not only is Kamoshida a projectile-set, there's also minions and even some stage control with Down Smash's Grape Juice Cup (And a bunch of different elements being introduced with one-off moves as well)
That said, it doesn't feel like there's a split between those different playstyles since they flow together naturally into one big pandemonium of bullying and abusive stage control.
The formatting in this set is a bit overwhelming, in the sense that I already felt satisfied with the mechanics present after the Smashes, if not outright stuffed. with Down Smash especially overflowing with seemingly superficial extras like the traction wine or the Christ blood FLUDD.
The moves after that seem to keep the amount of extras down, slowly simmering out.
The core was great though. Flinging around minions is always fun.
Some stray thoughts:
-Back Throw might be too powerful?
-I liked the made-up weapons, they work well as replacements for the Asmodeus boss fight and they inhabit a specific niche in the set as ball slinger and projectile usurping trident respectively
-Balance-wise, it might be a bit heavy on the bullet hell side, but since it seems to be specific set-ups being emphasised it's more for style rather than practical
-Flavor-wise, it's great. The writing is witty and fitting for a grotesque tyran like Kamo
Girimehkala
If you're going to call him the elephant, than so am I, makes this job a bit easier. Anyway, elephant here has a great Neutral Special in Beast Eye, a hard option to commit too that allows him to counteract his slowness by attacking twice at once, which is a downright incredible advantage. The amount of factors holding Beast Eye back prevent this mechanic from feeling nearly as overbearing as a lot of multi-attacking sets have in the past, though even beyond that you play things very carefully with not giving the elephant good combo options, to prevent him from just sentencing foes to a casual 0 to Death in Ultimate's combo-heavy engine. The set's melee in general feels pretty competently designed, the potential combinations the aerials make with Up Special all being interesting and the standards and smashes providing a number of satisfying ways to play off Beast Eye's capabilities. Honestly some of my favorite bits come in Up Special, Dair, and Dash Attack where the particular movement abilities of these attacks set up the ability to use a second attack at once from a unique positioning that attack could never have before. In spite of how incompetent he is as a "comboer", the Elephant actually feels quite viable overall while not actually being especially overpowered, which is impressive given he has a pretty different gameplan from most characters in the game.
My issue with the elephant comes from, and I know this sounds ridiculously nitpicky, how his power is distributed rather than how strong he is overall. 60 frames of lag to activate Beast Eye is genuinely pretty hard to activate and I feel there's a lot of matches where the Elephant will just never even get one off to ever become a competent threat. The reason I say he's probably still a competitive threat despite that is the absolutely ludicrous ledge game the elephant has, capped off by a really strong recovery, the extremely powerful counter wall, and the hands. The combination of the wall and hands locks down the opponent very hard into a situation that it feels like they'll never really come back from realistically if they're near a ledge, and it feels like with these tools if the foe gets pushed to a ledge they may as well just die. The combination of poison breath and Up Smash into what is basically an instant kill also feels like a bit much to me, it feels just a bit too easy for the elephant to cheese early kills with that. I'm also not really sure I agree with the principle behind the throws that create "alternatives to damage percent" with the weight loss and rage increase, at that point why not just give the elephant more options to deal damage?
If I were to make particular suggestions that I think should be looked at above all else, I think the wall's range absolutely needs to be nerfed, as fun as the option you described with it in FSmash sounds, there's a reason projectiles that strong and with that much range don't exist without more setup than the elephant has to do for that in Smash. It'd also make the ledge situation a fair bit less overbearing to deal with. If the wall, instant kills, and hands lose power though, I think the elephant should absolutely get some put back into Beast Eye, making it more practical to use in any given match. Cutting its lag by a considerable amount once his cheesier tools are weakened would make the set more interesting in my eyes, as it puts more focus on fully utilizing the powerful "combine two attacks" options the set has available without just a single one of them meaning the end for an opponent at 0%.
For the record, in spite of my complaints, I think the set is worth voting as is, and I'm very glad you made it. Its not everyday people who have been around for a long time make sets with experimental balance, and the Elephant pushing the extremes of slow and heavy is good ground to cover for future sets.
If you're going to call him the elephant, than so am I, makes this job a bit easier. Anyway, elephant here has a great Neutral Special in Beast Eye, a hard option to commit too that allows him to counteract his slowness by attacking twice at once, which is a downright incredible advantage. The amount of factors holding Beast Eye back prevent this mechanic from feeling nearly as overbearing as a lot of multi-attacking sets have in the past, though even beyond that you play things very carefully with not giving the elephant good combo options, to prevent him from just sentencing foes to a casual 0 to Death in Ultimate's combo-heavy engine. The set's melee in general feels pretty competently designed, the potential combinations the aerials make with Up Special all being interesting and the standards and smashes providing a number of satisfying ways to play off Beast Eye's capabilities. Honestly some of my favorite bits come in Up Special, Dair, and Dash Attack where the particular movement abilities of these attacks set up the ability to use a second attack at once from a unique positioning that attack could never have before. In spite of how incompetent he is as a "comboer", the Elephant actually feels quite viable overall while not actually being especially overpowered, which is impressive given he has a pretty different gameplan from most characters in the game.
My issue with the elephant comes from, and I know this sounds ridiculously nitpicky, how his power is distributed rather than how strong he is overall. 60 frames of lag to activate Beast Eye is genuinely pretty hard to activate and I feel there's a lot of matches where the Elephant will just never even get one off to ever become a competent threat. The reason I say he's probably still a competitive threat despite that is the absolutely ludicrous ledge game the elephant has, capped off by a really strong recovery, the extremely powerful counter wall, and the hands. The combination of the wall and hands locks down the opponent very hard into a situation that it feels like they'll never really come back from realistically if they're near a ledge, and it feels like with these tools if the foe gets pushed to a ledge they may as well just die. The combination of poison breath and Up Smash into what is basically an instant kill also feels like a bit much to me, it feels just a bit too easy for the elephant to cheese early kills with that. I'm also not really sure I agree with the principle behind the throws that create "alternatives to damage percent" with the weight loss and rage increase, at that point why not just give the elephant more options to deal damage?
If I were to make particular suggestions that I think should be looked at above all else, I think the wall's range absolutely needs to be nerfed, as fun as the option you described with it in FSmash sounds, there's a reason projectiles that strong and with that much range don't exist without more setup than the elephant has to do for that in Smash. It'd also make the ledge situation a fair bit less overbearing to deal with. If the wall, instant kills, and hands lose power though, I think the elephant should absolutely get some put back into Beast Eye, making it more practical to use in any given match. Cutting its lag by a considerable amount once his cheesier tools are weakened would make the set more interesting in my eyes, as it puts more focus on fully utilizing the powerful "combine two attacks" options the set has available without just a single one of them meaning the end for an opponent at 0%.
For the record, in spite of my complaints, I think the set is worth voting as is, and I'm very glad you made it. Its not everyday people who have been around for a long time make sets with experimental balance, and the Elephant pushing the extremes of slow and heavy is good ground to cover for future sets.
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Harry Potter and The Promise Of The Orb (Dark Matter by Bionichute)
Dark Matter was an odd read for me.
In the beginning we're treated with the Orb move, a cool passive that takes the first input in the set. A promising move, one that we'd sure to see the applications of throughout the set as said in the move's description. A solid opening to a literally promising set.
Except, I didn't find any reference to this in the rest of the set (except Up Special) with the normals being dedicated to fun sword moves. Each input is a great move in itself, with Matter taking us on a cool spin on the swordfighter set.
Some other highlights include the Forward Aerial, a cool variation on your classic Marth sloshyslash and the potentially brutal Neutral Air and overall, each input brings character and flair to the set. Sure, the ground game is self-contained, but we're getting the application of the orb move later, right? The blindspot management, the combos, the moves that turn out to be dark and maliciously clever when backed with a few bad boys.
Instead, I was treated with more of the same. Good spins on classic swordfighting moves, some good characterisation with glimpses of the true Matter being revealed in powerful moves but..unlike Zero or Magolor, it lacked that crucial True Form, the Soul. The mechanic, the playstyle that would stick together these various tools into a sense of direction.
Basically, I kept waiting for something to tie all these seperate moves together and while Neutral Air and Forward Air come close to being more than self-contained tools, I kept waiting for the Promise of the Orb.
Dark Matter was an odd read for me.
In the beginning we're treated with the Orb move, a cool passive that takes the first input in the set. A promising move, one that we'd sure to see the applications of throughout the set as said in the move's description. A solid opening to a literally promising set.
Except, I didn't find any reference to this in the rest of the set (except Up Special) with the normals being dedicated to fun sword moves. Each input is a great move in itself, with Matter taking us on a cool spin on the swordfighter set.
Some other highlights include the Forward Aerial, a cool variation on your classic Marth sloshyslash and the potentially brutal Neutral Air and overall, each input brings character and flair to the set. Sure, the ground game is self-contained, but we're getting the application of the orb move later, right? The blindspot management, the combos, the moves that turn out to be dark and maliciously clever when backed with a few bad boys.
Instead, I was treated with more of the same. Good spins on classic swordfighting moves, some good characterisation with glimpses of the true Matter being revealed in powerful moves but..unlike Zero or Magolor, it lacked that crucial True Form, the Soul. The mechanic, the playstyle that would stick together these various tools into a sense of direction.
Basically, I kept waiting for something to tie all these seperate moves together and while Neutral Air and Forward Air come close to being more than self-contained tools, I kept waiting for the Promise of the Orb.
1. f3 e5
2. g4?? Qh4#
8/10
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2. g4?? Qh4#
8/10
Nightmare is a pretty interesting set, one with an interpretation of the character that I can't say I've seen before, that of a brilliant strategist who quite literally serves as a chessmaster on the battlefield. It could be argued this interpretation, as well as the focus on chess as a gameplay motif, is a bit odd for Nightmare, but to be perfectly honest, the anemic characterization he gets in the games all but forced you to choose one of a few vagueries to build on. And I feel you made a very wise choice! Nightmare focuses very much on playing the field and mastering the art of the hard read, basically leaning hard into the chessmaster motif. I really like the concept, myself! It's really neat to see the myriad ways he has to subtly (and not-so-subtly) manipulate the field to make his job (reading the foe's actions) a little bit easier. Played well, he's a truly, well, nightmarish opponent thanks to having a variety of powerful moves that flourish thanks to his good reads; played poorly, he's likely to put himself in check before long, though it's not as if he's ENTIRELY helpless without his precious reads. Fun fact: I previewed this set in early stages, and originally, his FS was his main mechanic, placed on the Tacky Star gimmick! I personally think that the current solution works better, so good eye on changing it up. I don't have much to say in the way of critique, sadly, but I really enjoyed this set; good work, Smady!
A fun, simple core concept is usually the best basis for a set, and Aurelia here has a great one: a super powered, customizable projectile. The use of dust crystals throughout the set give players a ton of fun tools they can use when they can't quite land their big hit, but there's nothing quite as satisfying as sending the foe flying over the horizon with a blow that makes your teeth itch just watching it.
Her Semblance plays off of this quite nicely, letting her repeated hits hammer away at her foe to break down their defenses and hit even harder. "Hit harder" isn't the most interesting concept on its own, but the conditions around getting it and the applications (creating a weak point on the opponent or their shield to punish the latter and set up the former) work nicely with her heavy-hitting, high commitment playstyle.
The varied effects of the crystals on moves give each a niche while also being consistent to each type, keeping them intuitive, and gives Aurelia a few impressively hard-hitting options aside from just the big and shiny one. It gives players a taste of what the Neutral Special offers in customization and potency for a fraction of the price, and keeps her from becoming flow-chart-ish or suffering older MYM sets' weakness in having only a single kill option.
I was at something of a loss as to what could be improved, aside from some proof-reading (the Jab in particular is missing a few words here and there, mixing up a few for others, and sometimes repeating or misspelling them, and it could probably use a double space between some of the paragraphs to break it up). This is likely owing a bit to the sheer size of the set and the time crunch to put it together, and only sticks out to me given the set's length (don't need anything tripping up people as they read it). I'll note the locations in a spoiler for convenience's sake at the end of the comment.
The animations feel appropriate to Aurelia and the series she's based on, giving her a heavy but still visually impressive and flowing quality to her attacks. I've already made clear how much I adore the character and her design in private, so I'll note it here for posterity how well crafted I feel she is. I'm also a big fan of her quotes and the small flavor details throughout, such as her glee at KOing with her Down Aerial or her lack of patience for certain pests in her Pummel.
I am a little confused on the animation for the Neutral Aerial and how the first gunshots combo into the second, given the first is above and the second below; I assume the gun is still rotating as she fires, so the hitboxes rotate? That or the mentions of top and bottom are mixed up, and the bottom holds them so she hits them with the top as she falls. Other than that, I'm a major fan of her air game, Up and especially Down Aerials in specific seeming like a lot of fun, though I wonder if the Down Aerial's crystal variants might be a bit too strong (albeit the trade-offs make it hard for me to say).
Overall, well done!
Her Semblance plays off of this quite nicely, letting her repeated hits hammer away at her foe to break down their defenses and hit even harder. "Hit harder" isn't the most interesting concept on its own, but the conditions around getting it and the applications (creating a weak point on the opponent or their shield to punish the latter and set up the former) work nicely with her heavy-hitting, high commitment playstyle.
The varied effects of the crystals on moves give each a niche while also being consistent to each type, keeping them intuitive, and gives Aurelia a few impressively hard-hitting options aside from just the big and shiny one. It gives players a taste of what the Neutral Special offers in customization and potency for a fraction of the price, and keeps her from becoming flow-chart-ish or suffering older MYM sets' weakness in having only a single kill option.
I was at something of a loss as to what could be improved, aside from some proof-reading (the Jab in particular is missing a few words here and there, mixing up a few for others, and sometimes repeating or misspelling them, and it could probably use a double space between some of the paragraphs to break it up). This is likely owing a bit to the sheer size of the set and the time crunch to put it together, and only sticks out to me given the set's length (don't need anything tripping up people as they read it). I'll note the locations in a spoiler for convenience's sake at the end of the comment.
The animations feel appropriate to Aurelia and the series she's based on, giving her a heavy but still visually impressive and flowing quality to her attacks. I've already made clear how much I adore the character and her design in private, so I'll note it here for posterity how well crafted I feel she is. I'm also a big fan of her quotes and the small flavor details throughout, such as her glee at KOing with her Down Aerial or her lack of patience for certain pests in her Pummel.
I am a little confused on the animation for the Neutral Aerial and how the first gunshots combo into the second, given the first is above and the second below; I assume the gun is still rotating as she fires, so the hitboxes rotate? That or the mentions of top and bottom are mixed up, and the bottom holds them so she hits them with the top as she falls. Other than that, I'm a major fan of her air game, Up and especially Down Aerials in specific seeming like a lot of fun, though I wonder if the Down Aerial's crystal variants might be a bit too strong (albeit the trade-offs make it hard for me to say).
Overall, well done!
Rime
Okay for the record, the feeling is mutual in regards to Aurelia with enjoying the character and story you made here for Rime quite a bit, and it was fun to work on their dynamic together. Working on this was a blast US, haven't had this much fun with MYM stuff in quite a while and it was actually pretty important to reinvigorating my interest in the contest on a whole lately.
And you know what? I'm not sure how well people will be able to take my stance on this set seriously based on that first bit, but I actually do think this is your best and I really enjoy the way this set plays out. While the friction manipulation is a cool way to mess with your attack patterns, I do think the set's real value lies in the bomb. A timed explosive you can select the on-explosion effect of is decently fun on its own, but you absolutely did not waste the opportunity and made sure to do so much more than that with it. Rime allows for a huge variety of options with the bomb, from applying additional effects like a fire trail or (very temporary) projectile redirection to it, which makes the moves more dedicated to moving it around suddenly a lot more interesting. Its surprising just how many cool setups you can make come out of this one explosive, and you provide some other tools to play off it beyond just the incredible customization options like Down Smash. It makes the moves based around positioning the bomb, stuff I wouldn't normally be too invested in, actually pretty interesting when this one explosive has so much variety to its potential uses.
The set never really loses track of what makes it interesting, with the bomb and juggling it around being the primary focus, but that doesn't mean it doesn't branch out in some interesting ways. Utilizing the friction as a sort of pseudo-weapon switch and hitbox spreader is fun enough, I like the idea of changing it around during your jab to create some pretty varied combo strings or using your semblance setups to spread your Down Smash and then mess with the result using the bomb. While the melee isn't anything that totally took me by surprise, its plenty competent when you factor in the solidly designed aerials and Side Special, giving her some decent ways to play off her friction effects even without always considering the bomb even if that is where the set really comes together. If I had to make a complaint, I guess the melee is not as impressive as some of the top sets and rarely steps above filling the function of "keep her viable while all the fun stuff comes from the bomb". That and a few of the throw effects feel a bit hard to utilize outside of an FFA, but its not a huge deal to me as they still work fine in 1v1 for what they're trying to do and aren't lacking playstyle relevance. Very good work here US, I'm definitely glad to see a set this solid posted alongside my own.
Okay for the record, the feeling is mutual in regards to Aurelia with enjoying the character and story you made here for Rime quite a bit, and it was fun to work on their dynamic together. Working on this was a blast US, haven't had this much fun with MYM stuff in quite a while and it was actually pretty important to reinvigorating my interest in the contest on a whole lately.
And you know what? I'm not sure how well people will be able to take my stance on this set seriously based on that first bit, but I actually do think this is your best and I really enjoy the way this set plays out. While the friction manipulation is a cool way to mess with your attack patterns, I do think the set's real value lies in the bomb. A timed explosive you can select the on-explosion effect of is decently fun on its own, but you absolutely did not waste the opportunity and made sure to do so much more than that with it. Rime allows for a huge variety of options with the bomb, from applying additional effects like a fire trail or (very temporary) projectile redirection to it, which makes the moves more dedicated to moving it around suddenly a lot more interesting. Its surprising just how many cool setups you can make come out of this one explosive, and you provide some other tools to play off it beyond just the incredible customization options like Down Smash. It makes the moves based around positioning the bomb, stuff I wouldn't normally be too invested in, actually pretty interesting when this one explosive has so much variety to its potential uses.
The set never really loses track of what makes it interesting, with the bomb and juggling it around being the primary focus, but that doesn't mean it doesn't branch out in some interesting ways. Utilizing the friction as a sort of pseudo-weapon switch and hitbox spreader is fun enough, I like the idea of changing it around during your jab to create some pretty varied combo strings or using your semblance setups to spread your Down Smash and then mess with the result using the bomb. While the melee isn't anything that totally took me by surprise, its plenty competent when you factor in the solidly designed aerials and Side Special, giving her some decent ways to play off her friction effects even without always considering the bomb even if that is where the set really comes together. If I had to make a complaint, I guess the melee is not as impressive as some of the top sets and rarely steps above filling the function of "keep her viable while all the fun stuff comes from the bomb". That and a few of the throw effects feel a bit hard to utilize outside of an FFA, but its not a huge deal to me as they still work fine in 1v1 for what they're trying to do and aren't lacking playstyle relevance. Very good work here US, I'm definitely glad to see a set this solid posted alongside my own.
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Dead Hand was a character I was very pleased to see, and not just because of all the MYM in-jokes, though I’ll never get over inflating just like a balloon and planting a wet smacker on foes. This set gets one thing right immediately in its characterisation and tone, juggling the serious or gorey aspects of Dead Hand but not going too far. The limited use of bile and blood is a good place to stop. The powers you give to Dead Hand are also logical and don’t push him to do anything notably tacky. Not to say you don’t create some really creative moves here, the highlight for me being the down smash where Dead Hand summons Thing. Makes too much sense and is probably my favourite move!
There are a few balance issues I want to bring up. The Dead Arm grab game has a very powerful pitfall, and the regular pitfall is already as strong as K. Rool’s. The more powerful version utilizing both arms should also be much weaker, just because Dead Hand can potentially be right next to the foe as the dead arms are disjointed. If not outright too powerful, it just concerns me because a stun this powerful somewhat invalidates the other throws, K. Rool’s own set suffers a little from this once foes get above 125% or so and utilt is a kill confirm. I’d state both are a lot weaker than they are, I’d suggest making the stronger version as good as K. Rool’s and the regular one a good deal weaker.
If you wanted to expand on this throw, you could talk about what moves can confirm out of a pitfall, for example K. Rool’s utilt is the go-to for its hitbox that hits all the way from below (sweetspot) to above (sourspot). His ftilt is a riskier, stronger option he can angled down to hit buried or generally small foes or angled up to hit foes jumping out of it early, or jump and uair to hit them above, or usmash for the same result. Even if the moves are later in the set, this would go a long ways to helping improve this specific move.
I wasn’t sure about the fsmash’s effect on grabs; I’d much rather the foe simply had reduced traction from being covered in the slime. Increasing grab difficulty is simply inherently not fun for an opposing player. Reduced traction would make foes slide into your dead arms, so it’s in a way more helpful to Dead Hand’s game plan. The same would go for the dthrow in Dead Hand’s actual grab game where the effect comes up again. Dead Hand’s grab game that isn’t the dead arms is probably the weakest part of the set too, I was not a big fan of the fthrow’s gas effect or the animation of the bthrow, though the dead arm grab game is cool enough it’s not a big deal breaker.
When you already have the dead arm grab, I was not sure about the fair and usmash being grabs. I’d personally make those exclusively be shadow platform effects (the fair activating when in the air above a shadow platform) and make them into more traditional attacks when not under those circumstances. The usmash is cool enough to tweak into a Bayonetta usmash type-deal then, but the fair I think could really do with being a more traditional fair like Bowser or Charizard’s given the animation, Dead Hand is so fat he wants an all-around coverage move as fair if he can help it. If you do reduce the strength of the pitfalls in the set, this is pretty justified and really would help to reset the scales of the balance here. Not asking for a totally new move mind you, just to tweak the animation the hands do so Dead Hand has better aerial defences. Nair is actually pretty good in this regard but it isn’t quite enough.
Finally I’d just make some good old number crunch changes to a few parts of the specials. Screamer is a very fun move balance-wise utilizing the stale move queue, but it’s incorrect to state it has “no start up lag.” It has to at least have 1 frame, though admittedly that’s something of a nitpick. Still I’d just say it has 1-2 frames of start up. The down special just seems to have too long of a duration at 8 seconds, I’d make it much lower than that to avoid potential quasi-stalling, or even add a cooldown to the move. I would also remove the ability to control arms underground; I’d make it more like Inkling’s dash dance than a fortress-style move, more like how Screamer is balanced where it’s strong in short bursts. I was not a big fan of the camera shenanigans either, if only because it’s a fairly irrelevant thread in Dead Hand’s playstyle and might be quite annoying to play against.
That’s a lot to take in, and while I do have a laundry list of balance complaints, if you read them you’ll notice besides the fair and if you wanted to rework some of his regular grab game, nothing is all that integral to the set. That is because I actually did really enjoy much of the core set and thought it had a lot of good ideas; the way dead arms work is very thoughtful, the shadow arm interactions are really fun and the playstyle is nicely overwhelming when it’s not too extreme. That’s why I wanted to give an in-depth comment on what does push it into the extreme side as this playstyle does have to strike a delicate balance and there’s no shame that you made a few mistakes along the way. I’d still vote the set as is and it could climb decently high taking my feedback on board! I also have to say I love the extras in this set and that it does feel like an evolution of your style.
There are a few balance issues I want to bring up. The Dead Arm grab game has a very powerful pitfall, and the regular pitfall is already as strong as K. Rool’s. The more powerful version utilizing both arms should also be much weaker, just because Dead Hand can potentially be right next to the foe as the dead arms are disjointed. If not outright too powerful, it just concerns me because a stun this powerful somewhat invalidates the other throws, K. Rool’s own set suffers a little from this once foes get above 125% or so and utilt is a kill confirm. I’d state both are a lot weaker than they are, I’d suggest making the stronger version as good as K. Rool’s and the regular one a good deal weaker.
If you wanted to expand on this throw, you could talk about what moves can confirm out of a pitfall, for example K. Rool’s utilt is the go-to for its hitbox that hits all the way from below (sweetspot) to above (sourspot). His ftilt is a riskier, stronger option he can angled down to hit buried or generally small foes or angled up to hit foes jumping out of it early, or jump and uair to hit them above, or usmash for the same result. Even if the moves are later in the set, this would go a long ways to helping improve this specific move.
I wasn’t sure about the fsmash’s effect on grabs; I’d much rather the foe simply had reduced traction from being covered in the slime. Increasing grab difficulty is simply inherently not fun for an opposing player. Reduced traction would make foes slide into your dead arms, so it’s in a way more helpful to Dead Hand’s game plan. The same would go for the dthrow in Dead Hand’s actual grab game where the effect comes up again. Dead Hand’s grab game that isn’t the dead arms is probably the weakest part of the set too, I was not a big fan of the fthrow’s gas effect or the animation of the bthrow, though the dead arm grab game is cool enough it’s not a big deal breaker.
When you already have the dead arm grab, I was not sure about the fair and usmash being grabs. I’d personally make those exclusively be shadow platform effects (the fair activating when in the air above a shadow platform) and make them into more traditional attacks when not under those circumstances. The usmash is cool enough to tweak into a Bayonetta usmash type-deal then, but the fair I think could really do with being a more traditional fair like Bowser or Charizard’s given the animation, Dead Hand is so fat he wants an all-around coverage move as fair if he can help it. If you do reduce the strength of the pitfalls in the set, this is pretty justified and really would help to reset the scales of the balance here. Not asking for a totally new move mind you, just to tweak the animation the hands do so Dead Hand has better aerial defences. Nair is actually pretty good in this regard but it isn’t quite enough.
Finally I’d just make some good old number crunch changes to a few parts of the specials. Screamer is a very fun move balance-wise utilizing the stale move queue, but it’s incorrect to state it has “no start up lag.” It has to at least have 1 frame, though admittedly that’s something of a nitpick. Still I’d just say it has 1-2 frames of start up. The down special just seems to have too long of a duration at 8 seconds, I’d make it much lower than that to avoid potential quasi-stalling, or even add a cooldown to the move. I would also remove the ability to control arms underground; I’d make it more like Inkling’s dash dance than a fortress-style move, more like how Screamer is balanced where it’s strong in short bursts. I was not a big fan of the camera shenanigans either, if only because it’s a fairly irrelevant thread in Dead Hand’s playstyle and might be quite annoying to play against.
That’s a lot to take in, and while I do have a laundry list of balance complaints, if you read them you’ll notice besides the fair and if you wanted to rework some of his regular grab game, nothing is all that integral to the set. That is because I actually did really enjoy much of the core set and thought it had a lot of good ideas; the way dead arms work is very thoughtful, the shadow arm interactions are really fun and the playstyle is nicely overwhelming when it’s not too extreme. That’s why I wanted to give an in-depth comment on what does push it into the extreme side as this playstyle does have to strike a delicate balance and there’s no shame that you made a few mistakes along the way. I’d still vote the set as is and it could climb decently high taking my feedback on board! I also have to say I love the extras in this set and that it does feel like an evolution of your style.
Revving up the motorcycle while I throw up onto the blade hidden in my flesh (Dead Hand)
Dead Hand is a disgusting set that I luckily read today instead of yesterday, as I was quite nauseous then.
Now, the bile is part of a great flavor (Well, not really but you get it) that ties into Dead Hand's presence as a terrifying pile of sludge.
This flavor is what carries the melee. While the moves are a bit awkward due to his body frame, the flavor and unique animations is what gives it cohesion and uniqueness.
The mechanic with the shadow platform is fun and delightfully sadist and ties well into the theme of abnormal moves that fit Dead Hand exactly for that reason.
Like Smady though, I have some balance complaints. The set tries some interesting approaches to balancing, though I believe a more conventional way of balancing would work best here.
For example, the Screech move is balanced by only being usable when it's not stale, when there's plenty of less clunky ways to balance, such as charge, cooldown, the move not having unlimited range or even start-up.
Even then, the move interrupting all moves, instead of just attacks can get incredibly silly regardless, possibly with recovering.
Similarily, the Up B chooses to forego the classic timer, instead opting to give this move unlimited deploy time and choosing to let Dead Hand be hit by his own trap.
In return, you can buff his normals to be less clunky for his big frame
Dead Hand is a disgusting set that I luckily read today instead of yesterday, as I was quite nauseous then.
Now, the bile is part of a great flavor (Well, not really but you get it) that ties into Dead Hand's presence as a terrifying pile of sludge.
This flavor is what carries the melee. While the moves are a bit awkward due to his body frame, the flavor and unique animations is what gives it cohesion and uniqueness.
The mechanic with the shadow platform is fun and delightfully sadist and ties well into the theme of abnormal moves that fit Dead Hand exactly for that reason.
Like Smady though, I have some balance complaints. The set tries some interesting approaches to balancing, though I believe a more conventional way of balancing would work best here.
For example, the Screech move is balanced by only being usable when it's not stale, when there's plenty of less clunky ways to balance, such as charge, cooldown, the move not having unlimited range or even start-up.
Even then, the move interrupting all moves, instead of just attacks can get incredibly silly regardless, possibly with recovering.
Similarily, the Up B chooses to forego the classic timer, instead opting to give this move unlimited deploy time and choosing to let Dead Hand be hit by his own trap.
In return, you can buff his normals to be less clunky for his big frame
Mighty Number 9 by Junahu
Copy X has some major issues. At its core, it works well, but when you get to the stuff outside of that core, it kind of falls apart. The core here is the weapon switching mechanic, the most fleshed out part of the set, and its done in a fairly fun way, with most of the attack variants being different enough from each other to stand out. This is a part of the set I can't really complain about, outside of numbers stuff that may or may not be there. The actual issue is the everything that isn't that.
Almost every attack that doesn't use the weapon switching mechanic end up being dull, one paragraph melee affairs. This makes half the set a fun read, while the other half ends up feeling like a rush job (which it was). Then you have two randomly interesting moves in the aerials that have more creativity than basically any other move, actually using things from X and Copy X's final phase (Though the fact DAir doesn't create a burst of fire if it touches the ground is actually a crime, FROY, I KNOW YOU'RE READING THIS YOU FOOL). Under different circumstances, this could have been a fun, evil parallel to Smash Mega Man or X in MvC:I, but it really does just feel like a generic punchman with some weird projectile moves thrown in.
I normally prefer simplicity, but most of the generic attacks really do end up not staying with you compared to the rest, which is a problem. Adding in some more X weapons could be a way to liven it up, make it feel more like X, or Copy X, rather.
Copy X has some major issues. At its core, it works well, but when you get to the stuff outside of that core, it kind of falls apart. The core here is the weapon switching mechanic, the most fleshed out part of the set, and its done in a fairly fun way, with most of the attack variants being different enough from each other to stand out. This is a part of the set I can't really complain about, outside of numbers stuff that may or may not be there. The actual issue is the everything that isn't that.
Almost every attack that doesn't use the weapon switching mechanic end up being dull, one paragraph melee affairs. This makes half the set a fun read, while the other half ends up feeling like a rush job (which it was). Then you have two randomly interesting moves in the aerials that have more creativity than basically any other move, actually using things from X and Copy X's final phase (Though the fact DAir doesn't create a burst of fire if it touches the ground is actually a crime, FROY, I KNOW YOU'RE READING THIS YOU FOOL). Under different circumstances, this could have been a fun, evil parallel to Smash Mega Man or X in MvC:I, but it really does just feel like a generic punchman with some weird projectile moves thrown in.
I normally prefer simplicity, but most of the generic attacks really do end up not staying with you compared to the rest, which is a problem. Adding in some more X weapons could be a way to liven it up, make it feel more like X, or Copy X, rather.
Copy X
An old man named Rool once said that MYM likes its versatility as variations on a theme. That old man is dead now, but he's right, I'm in MYM, and I do like variations on a theme for my versatility. Copy X makes the very smart decision as a weapon switch set to push the entire set towards a specific playstyle of projectile spam and pressure, but switching weapons allows him to take different angles on how he approaches that. This is the kind of thing I need to make a weapon switch not feel like its just creating a set where the options ultimately don't flow together, but the set's projectiles definently are easier to have multiples of out at a time if you're cycling through your options, and a lot of moves set up into or out of projectiles of another type better than their own. Its all simple stuff, sure, but with this as a basis the amount of options the set has stops being needless fluff and actually starts being proper depth, and the set delivers and impressive level of projectile-based play while not actually manipulating said projectiles much.
There were complaints leveled against the set's melee and non-weapon switch moves, and for the most part I don't find myself agreeing with them. The presence of Side Special as a scary presense out of any melee move and the slower projectiles setting up combos mean a lot of these simpler moves are honestly fine as they are, contributing plenty to the playstyle in spite of their simplicity. I will say that while the melee works fine, I do think the two more lackluster throws could've been developed a bit more than they were, they're fine as basic options but I think they stick out as not as good as the rest of the set. I'll also be honest, I don't think it quite makes the top tier of vote for the simple reason that no individual function this set had made me go "oh wow, that's really cool/has tons of depth" because of how basic the approach is. And that's fine, but it just means that I can't muster quite as much enthusiasm for it as I can some of the top tier sets, but this is a very solid moveset that everyone should read.
An old man named Rool once said that MYM likes its versatility as variations on a theme. That old man is dead now, but he's right, I'm in MYM, and I do like variations on a theme for my versatility. Copy X makes the very smart decision as a weapon switch set to push the entire set towards a specific playstyle of projectile spam and pressure, but switching weapons allows him to take different angles on how he approaches that. This is the kind of thing I need to make a weapon switch not feel like its just creating a set where the options ultimately don't flow together, but the set's projectiles definently are easier to have multiples of out at a time if you're cycling through your options, and a lot of moves set up into or out of projectiles of another type better than their own. Its all simple stuff, sure, but with this as a basis the amount of options the set has stops being needless fluff and actually starts being proper depth, and the set delivers and impressive level of projectile-based play while not actually manipulating said projectiles much.
There were complaints leveled against the set's melee and non-weapon switch moves, and for the most part I don't find myself agreeing with them. The presence of Side Special as a scary presense out of any melee move and the slower projectiles setting up combos mean a lot of these simpler moves are honestly fine as they are, contributing plenty to the playstyle in spite of their simplicity. I will say that while the melee works fine, I do think the two more lackluster throws could've been developed a bit more than they were, they're fine as basic options but I think they stick out as not as good as the rest of the set. I'll also be honest, I don't think it quite makes the top tier of vote for the simple reason that no individual function this set had made me go "oh wow, that's really cool/has tons of depth" because of how basic the approach is. And that's fine, but it just means that I can't muster quite as much enthusiasm for it as I can some of the top tier sets, but this is a very solid moveset that everyone should read.
Cross-Copy (Copy X)
After the mechanical maniacs I've read over the past few days, Copy X is a breath of fresh air. Instead of relying on normals to spruce up a set into oblivion, Copy X keeps it simple with a simple premise: The boy's got projectiles and he's not afraid to use them.
This is referenced nicely multiple times in the set, with normals interacting with them in more traditional Smash terms such as applying more pressure, fishing for a Samus-esque shieldbreak or comboing off of the hitstun they give. The same goes for the Nova-move.
The Navi-like tips throughout the set work in making the playstyle come to life, although flavor-wise it could be more diverse instead of going for the "This could work, maybe?" route most of the time. It didn't bother me, but if you're going to be unsubtle about what would be good applications, outright saying things work would work just as well, perhaps?
The set poses a nice balance between Buster-moves and regular moves, with only a few moves interacting with the main mechanic which keeps it meaningful.
So fresh, in fact, that the moves where the elemental stuff does come into play sometimes come off as underwhelming, with the variations being mostly based on the lag/strenght scale. Dash Attack and Forward Throw already go in deeper, but it'd make more sense to differentiate on the more conventional inputs such as Forward Smash (especially since Kamoshida and other sets I've read outright ignore the "Smash" part and treats them as "Specials I Can Only Use On The Ground" instead and maybe I got used to that)
After the mechanical maniacs I've read over the past few days, Copy X is a breath of fresh air. Instead of relying on normals to spruce up a set into oblivion, Copy X keeps it simple with a simple premise: The boy's got projectiles and he's not afraid to use them.
This is referenced nicely multiple times in the set, with normals interacting with them in more traditional Smash terms such as applying more pressure, fishing for a Samus-esque shieldbreak or comboing off of the hitstun they give. The same goes for the Nova-move.
The Navi-like tips throughout the set work in making the playstyle come to life, although flavor-wise it could be more diverse instead of going for the "This could work, maybe?" route most of the time. It didn't bother me, but if you're going to be unsubtle about what would be good applications, outright saying things work would work just as well, perhaps?
The set poses a nice balance between Buster-moves and regular moves, with only a few moves interacting with the main mechanic which keeps it meaningful.
So fresh, in fact, that the moves where the elemental stuff does come into play sometimes come off as underwhelming, with the variations being mostly based on the lag/strenght scale. Dash Attack and Forward Throw already go in deeper, but it'd make more sense to differentiate on the more conventional inputs such as Forward Smash (especially since Kamoshida and other sets I've read outright ignore the "Smash" part and treats them as "Specials I Can Only Use On The Ground" instead and maybe I got used to that)
Elpizo by FrozenRoy
Elpizo is an ambitious set. Creating a set where each move has a possible upgrade is not just a slouch at face value, where creating all these effects and making them all unique and interesting is a very high-risk effort.
At a deeper level, another threat arises: Opportunity cost. With the upgrades ending as Elpizo dies, there's only so many moves Elpizo can buff and with twenty-something distinct possibilities, there's a lot to choose.
And with the buffs being quite specific, it's quite hard to strategize around. Players will often be more left wondering "wish O upgraded that", rather than creating situations where the buffs can work best, since one can't anticipate needing a roll-prevention tool (except by going on For Glory I guess)
While Froy's setmaking ability cannot be doubted, I think the concept is interesting, but not interesting enough to jump through all those hoops for. Still, Froy jumped through all these hoops and jumped the hurdles quite skillfully, which is again a testament to his ability.
Even though the concept is flawed, Froy did an amazing job handling it, since despite all the pitfalls inherit to it, it was still a great read.
Elpizo is an ambitious set. Creating a set where each move has a possible upgrade is not just a slouch at face value, where creating all these effects and making them all unique and interesting is a very high-risk effort.
At a deeper level, another threat arises: Opportunity cost. With the upgrades ending as Elpizo dies, there's only so many moves Elpizo can buff and with twenty-something distinct possibilities, there's a lot to choose.
And with the buffs being quite specific, it's quite hard to strategize around. Players will often be more left wondering "wish O upgraded that", rather than creating situations where the buffs can work best, since one can't anticipate needing a roll-prevention tool (except by going on For Glory I guess)
While Froy's setmaking ability cannot be doubted, I think the concept is interesting, but not interesting enough to jump through all those hoops for. Still, Froy jumped through all these hoops and jumped the hurdles quite skillfully, which is again a testament to his ability.
Even though the concept is flawed, Froy did an amazing job handling it, since despite all the pitfalls inherit to it, it was still a great read.
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