Win Condition 4 Indies

[Ramen King]

So I realized that indies have a pretty big advantage against other factions. Their win condition isn't known. Both town and mafia have known win conditions. But an indies can be anything. Town could never know what they are looking for which is completely uh silly.

Mod: "Hey guys you gotta find this guy!"
Town: "What guy?"
Mod: "This guy. Just find him. You know that one you gotta find!"
Town: "Ok then?"

You can't determine someone's intentions if you don't even know the possible intentions there are, you know?

So I'm thinking indy win conditions should start to be known. In other words, if there is an indy in the game, what kind of indy (SK/Warlock/Marker/etc) should be given from the start.

Marker is one of my main irritations. It's too easy to win with based on observing Touhou, Gova's game, and GS3#2. Especially when they have a bulletproof. It's really not that difficult to predict who will remain alive. And as the numbers dwindle, it becomes the ever more easy. All a bp marker has to do is play extremely protown and use their influence to dissuade lynches. They don't even have to necessarily push certain people, just dissuade from others. With a town/mafia that doesn't even know this role is in the game, they will almost always get screwed over in the end. Don't like it. At least with the win condition being know, they can know what to look for. Who is defending who? Why does he want to keep him alive? etc.

So yeah.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Agreed with this.

 

[Evil Eye]

It's part of the puzzle.

They also have the inherent disadvantage of being completely alone. In almost all scenarios, their death spells doom for the wincon.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Disagree. Indies shouldn't be nerfed (lol) just because it could be easier for them to win without them being known as being in the game, it's very hard to win by yourself and survive both night kills from scum AND townies.

 

[#HBC | J]

Disagree with having indy's wincon's being universal/known. They have the biggest disadvantage with being alone and also scum is scum. You can find players that are looking out for their own.

Like there is little I can agree to this thing with indy.

 

[Ramen King]

So far Xonar is the only one who posted something legitimate.

 

[#HBC | J]

You really can't be like that Zen if someone disagrees with the logic you presented.

:/

 

[No Hetero]

we could also just not ever use them again

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

lol Zen indies have their own tells like any other alignment you seriously can't tell me that this is needed

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The thing is that you can't go looking for the intention of someone when you have no idea what they have to accomplish.

Indies have a lot of freedom.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Survival.

That's a pretty big win condition. Townies can win if they die, Scum can win if they die. Indies have to live until endgame, and literally have to out-play every single other player in the game, this would be borderline unfair.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Hey, the same counts for townies!
and scummers!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

 

[#HBC | J]

Exactly, finding indies are not hard at all to find once you know there is an indy in the game. Either as mafia or town.

Plus they are fundamentally nerfed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than town/mafia.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

See my edit xonar

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

they have to outplay every single player
yeah
no

seriously?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

indies always gotta keep themselves alive though. no-one to bus etc.

if you're going to put a marker or similar (arsonist springs to mind) in a setup I think you should make it known somehow, though; putting a firefighter or an fbi agent is one way, having whoever's been marked know they've been marked etc.

i mean i'm basically just saying game should be balanced; no-one likes wtf indie wins.


other thing I should say;
not a fan of survivor-style indies who win along with another faction.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Uh, yeah. You disagree????

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Obviously I disagree. Not everyone can pull a lynch on you, some indies can kill, scum can kill et cetera.


I don't give a **** when Ruy sees me as indy, but if Ryker does, consider me scared.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Agreed with this.

So far Xonar is the only one who posted something legitimate.

lmfao

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

#gotem #2012 #yolo #pokemans #downndurteh

 

[#HBC | Kary]

man sometimes I wish we had a thread for like, discussions of general questions on mafia theory

 

[Gova]

Nah, this couldn't be discussed there. This thread is of bigotry and ignorance where anyone who disagrees with the OP is wrong, obviously.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

hahahahahahah

i was just trying to find the words for that

maybe we need a 'I HA3V AN OPINION N MAFIAZ#' thread


OR

we just settle all matters by popular vote

for great justice

 

[#HBC | J]

I thought we had one of those.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

We should have a mafia council made out of Xonar, Uguu, Spidermang, tHe-Man, Zenar, Make it Rain! and Sato.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

inb4 this thread gets closed

and no

 

[Nicholas1024]

Honestly, I think the issue more is some indy roles being completely ridiculous. An SK is at a bad enough disadvantage already without telling people "HEY, THERE'S A SERIAL KILLER OUT THERE GUYS". It's more about there being idiotic indy roles in some setups. I mean, how hard is it for a Jester to win? No, the problem with indy win conditions is that half of these conditions let them win with another faction, letting them drift by with minimal content to avoid lynch (this behavior making them an unlikely NK) until town/mafia does their work for them.

Also Vote: Zen for being dumb or scum.

 

[Gova]

He can be dumb and scum though.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hey hey now. let's not start pointing fingers at each other just because of disagreements.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

man sometimes I wish we had a thread for like, discussions of general questions on mafia theory

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309438

 

[#HBC | Kary]

^

LMFAO

cheers DH

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

wow and here I was thinking Kary's comment was sarcastic

 

[Handorin]

It's part of the puzzle.

They also have the inherent disadvantage of being completely alone. In almost all scenarios, their death spells doom for the wincon.

Remember that one game you made where I had to acquire the most votes without ever being lynched?

Yea, that was hard. Especially since I'm always mafia and scummy so people want to lynch me anyways... >_>

 

[#HBC | Kary]

It's part of the puzzle.

They also have the inherent disadvantage of being completely alone. In almost all scenarios, their death spells doom for the wincon.

the matter is resolved


@Xonar: seriously, not sure if serious.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

It's part of the puzzle.

They also have the inherent disadvantage of being completely alone. In almost all scenarios, their death spells doom for the wincon.

Ding !

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

they have to outplay every single player
yeah
no

seriously?

The only reason Ryker and I won skies is by figuring out the scum team and cracking the set-up. Had we not done either, we were toast.

 

[DatHydra]

someone still salty about touhou not naming names but gg

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

DatKoo z!

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

someone still salty about touhou not naming names but gg

obviously stew, town flying pumpkin that shoots laserbeams out of its ***

why did i ever believe that ****

why was i so stupid

why

 

[Evil Eye]

So far Xonar is the only one who posted something legitimate.

Thank you for reminding me of why I retired from this place.