3.6 ZSS Discussion

[InfinityCollision]

Norfair is pretty good for ZSS in certain matchups. Wouldn't go anywhere near it against characters like Jiggs, D3, or Mewtwo, but she's able to work the platforms a lot better than someone like Marth or even Samus. It's a solid, if situational, CP option, but you need to play very patiently.

Skyworld's got the running game for sure but it's awkward as hell for her if she has to engage. Does work rather well for her recovery too though, since she has great mixups with the platforms extending past the ledge.

 

[ted dorosheff]

It happens. xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGOnCGUB5-A So this is like the 9001th time I've lost to Oksas since 3.5. Halp? Shokio, Foo, Oro?! I summon thee.

Hey Vixen, Ive seen this video before and figured i would give my 2 cents, even though your request is over a month old. During your first stock it seemed like you were trying to match wolf's melee game (ie, your hands/feet vs his hands/feet), and this ended up in you only getting 12% on him. You were trying to space him out as best you could (some of the best zss's spacing, i think) but it just didnt cut it. The next stock you started using the plasma whip, paralyzer, and even some up smashes which worked really well to break up the wolf onslaught. I think you could also stand to use some more lazers, just to break up his momentum. One other thing that i saw a couple of times is that when he would go off stage, you would put yourself on one of the side platforms, which puts you right in place for his side-b.

And i feel ya when you say that picking a secondary leaves you feeling dirty.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yo, this character is fun as ****. I just picked her up.

 

[Vixen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSClIuSlx-4 Vixen ZSS vs Sanchaz Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlUDSpNIN6s Vixen ZSS vs Oksas Wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgechWS2lYU Vixen ZSS vs Sanchaz Shiek/Falcon

Stuff from tuesday.

Would anyone be willing to take a peek at my Wolf matches? Still trying to figure that dern match up out.

 

[Esper]

@ Vixen Great gameplay! Really inspiring me to practice more.

 

[Player-3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSClIuSlx-4 Vixen ZSS vs Sanchaz Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlUDSpNIN6s Vixen ZSS vs Oksas Wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgechWS2lYU Vixen ZSS vs Sanchaz Shiek/Falcon

Stuff from tuesday.

Would anyone be willing to take a peek at my Wolf matches? Still trying to figure that dern match up out.

ill watch it more later but i think you should keep in mind that bthrow is a tech chase throw too, you can trap them at the ledge with it alot of the time to make it easier to tech chase afterwards, even get a throw offstage possibly

( only watched like 3/4s of game 1 when i got off work this morning ill watch the rest later, i dont know much about wolf tho)

 

[DragSamus]

As someone who picked up ZSS in 3.5, I am very sorry for anyone who played this character before 3.5, because i'm loving 3.5 ZSS. I feel you guys, I dropped Mario when he was OP because I knew he would be changed. I don't know if the 3.5 changes to ZSS were warranted or not, but I have fallen in love with the 3.5 iteration of ZSS.

 

[Agi]

Hey, I've had interest in picking up ZSS as a secondary for a while now, and I'm starting to focus on her a bit more now that I've starting to plateau in my region with my Wario. I figured I'd share this stage-specific tech that a bunch of characters (including ZSS) are capable of doing, I'm just calling it Double Jump Platform Cancel for now - though maybe it should be Ledge Jump Platform Cancel, I dunno. Either way, if you do it frame perfectly, you get 7 frames of actionable intangibility on the middle platform of WarioWare from the ledge. It's super tight with Zamus, you only get a 1-frame window instead of Wario's 2-frame window, and can only do it on Yoshi's, WarioWare, and Smashville, but I'm going to try working it into my game anyway. The input's simple, but as said, super tight - just jump while ZSS's head is passing through the platform from a ledge jump below 100%. Frame 23 after inputting a ledge jump on WarioWare, 24 on Yoshi's, and 25 on Smashville.

Spoiler

Double Jump Platform Cancel

Yes, I know it was recorded with a potato. Moving on!
This is a bit of tech I've had on the backburner for a couple of months, before eventually cracking and just using the terrible phone camera. If it's not totally clear what's going on there, it turns out that Wario's ledgejump (AKA Tournament Winner) is actually interruptible through use of his double jump. Although not immediately intuitive, if you turn on the stage collision boxes in debug mode, you'll see why - Wario's initial pose from the jump turns him upside down, and his collision boxes slide up to compensate. When you double jump, they snap back down immediately. If they happen to pass through a platform on the way, the game registers this as you No Impact Landing on the platform, giving you -zero- frames of landing lag to throw out whatever you want!

A lot of characters are capable of doing this (going by memory, ), but it's particularly standout for Wario due to his ridiculous drift. All of the above characters are only capable of performing the technique on Yoshi's Story or Warioware due to the platform more or less being immediately above the ledge, but Wario can do it on any stage platforms are at LEAST as close as Dream Land's. This includes Battlefield, Smashville, Norfair, WarioWare, Yoshi's Story, Lylat, Skyworld, and of course, Dream Land. Yoshi's Island, PS2, and Fountain (totally doable, I was wrong) are impossible to DJPC on, and GHZ, while technically possible... well, is technically possible, so go get em!

You'll notice that I'm DJPCing into Shield here. This is because of two things - 1) It's, by far, the most useful/reliable application of DJPC; by holding a light shield press on the way up, you will shield the exact frame you land on the platform. This is unspeakably useful for breaking through ledge pressure, especially when done frame-perfect. You have about three frames of forgiveness to get to the platform and get your shield up while still invulnerable. 2) Brawl replays are notoriously unreliable with PM and I wanted to guarantee showing off SOMETHING.

On Battlefield, you have a two-frame input window - 29 and 30 after inputting a ledge jump. This varies by stage based on platform height, but there's your baseline! Now get out there and board those platforms!

 

[Shokio]

Call me crazy, but lately I've gotten extremely comfortable in the spacie MU. For the last 3 weeks I've kinda been going exclusively ZSS and haven't been counter-picking, and I've 2-0'd every Fox, Falco, or Wolf (and Falcon) that I've played.

I dunno if I've just been lucky, but......I've never felt any ounce of confidence in those MU's before, but now I do. Weird.

 

[Myst007_teh_newb]

Hey everyone. Socal just got itself a streaming setup, so there's some footage of my ZSS out in the ether now. They're gonna be uploaded sometime later on this week, but I grabbed the twitch VOD and dissected a set I played.

https://youtu.be/-vWUowQFlFw

I mainly talk about my approach to ZSS's neutral and what I believe her strengths are. It's lengthy, but only because there's a lot to say about ZSS as a character, lol.

 

[Shokio]

What channel do you guys upload your vids on?

 

[Myst007_teh_newb]

What channel do you guys upload your vids on?

Videos will be uploaded here: https://www.youtube.com/user/bsgames67/

The most recent tourney hasn't been uploaded yet, but they'll be coming soon.

 

[Myst007_teh_newb]

I come bearing footage!

ZSS:
Jason Waterfalls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9zJg3RmmXc (vs Maddox, Yoshi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx52i__HvfI (vs Worr, Kirby)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSupP6dE-G8 (vs Stauffy, Lucario)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjiD4I-Bf0E (vs Nashun, Mario) [Loser's Finals]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRf_1EMi2zg (vs Lucky, Wolf) [Grand Finals]

 

[Agi]

Does anyone know what determines how long someone is in stun? (aka, why sometimes they're in for a brief moment, then pop out. Not just "not stunned at all") I've done some basic testing but haven't got anything conclusive. Starting to get annoyed by the perceived inconsistency, it's cost me quite a few stocks.

 

[Stryker]

Does anyone know what determines how long someone is in stun? (aka, why sometimes they're in for a brief moment, then pop out. Not just "not stunned at all") I've done some basic testing but haven't got anything conclusive. Starting to get annoyed by the perceived inconsistency, it's cost me quite a few stocks.

Opponents can mash out, which may be causing your inconsistent results.

 

[Agi]

...ya know, we'd tested that, but apparently the people I play with are just really, really bad at mashing under controlled situations, because it wasn't working then. Doing it on my own gets the reduced time though, so thanks.

Looks like crouch canceling reduces the time too - that's more likely what they've been doing. They crouch cancel like fiends.

 

[Stryker]

...ya know, we'd tested that, but apparently the people I play with are just really, really bad at mashing under controlled situations, because it wasn't working then. Doing it on my own gets the reduced time though, so thanks.

Looks like crouch canceling reduces the time too - that's more likely what they've been doing. They crouch cancel like fiends.

Man, my playmates do this too. Like spamming cc dtilt on C falcon. Thankfully I've found that if I switch to peach and Ccdsmash a few times, they start to play more careful for a session or two at least
Sucks though cause sometimes zero suit utilt misses cause they crouch under it, cause it feels like the perfect thing for it.
That and I have a friend who plays squirtle, which is a huge pain for similar size reasons

 

[Player -0]

ZSS' new model/texture for next version:

Buff or nerf?

- Looks more like Smash 4
- etc

I didn't make this post to complain about no pink color at all.

Seriously the new red looks like kid flash, doesn't look good to me and replaced my main color :/

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I think it's pretty good overall. There are some things that threw me off, but not having Boobsocks InfinityCollision is a huge buff.

Edit: I really like the Dark Blue suit personally.

 

[Player -0]

I'm not really a fan of the lighter colored stripes in the middle for the Red and dark Blue costumes.

I might have to play default, purple, or black ZSS now :l. And black ZSS is too hipster.

 

[ikon]

the lack of a pink variant is distressing, but it's an overall buff imo. vanilla suit samus is my favorite

 

[G13_Flux]

i dont think they showed all the colors. there were only 2 colors they showed besides the original. theres probably others.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

i dont think they showed all the colors. there were only 2 colors they showed besides the original. theres probably others.

I saw a lime green, a violet, a dark blue, a black, and a red one in addition to the original. I hope there are more colours though.

 

[G13_Flux]

I saw a lime green, a violet, a dark blue, a black, and a red one in addition to the original. I hope there are more colours though.

what??? where did you see that. are you looking on their twitter?

Im literall only seeing the 3 colors i mentioned, im not seing the dark blue or violet

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Yeah man. And black is kinda hipster.

 

[prem]

http://imgur.com/a/SOXUJ

and Im sad the black one looks worse now but whatever overall they look nice. and supposedly they are fixing the other 3 too which is good cause honestly I've always thought those looked unpolished and just not clean enough

 

[G13_Flux]

I think they look pretty good tbh. i can can sympathize with the lack of pink color but i personally didnt use it so im fine lol. These new ones have a lot more depth in the costume, and deeper differences in the shades of colors, as well as the holster. im pretty pleased.

 

[Player -0]

I'm a tad disappointed they didn't mix the Brawl and Smash 4 styles.

Like some of the stuff like darker hues as you go down leg and stuff were really Brawl.

The stripe down the center is unique to P:M but it's only on a few costumes as well as not looking good (imo).

Also irrelevant but could the CSP be changed a bit? Currently the face among other things looks really flat/weird.

This goes for some of the other alt costume portraits too but it's showing to be fairly prevalent.

Edit - Obligatory snippet that Pink ZSS Bess ZSS

 

[Dawnz_]

If pink is actually gone i'm going to be really upset, always staying on my setup

 

[Player -0]

If they're not adding a separate costume specifically for Pink it looks like it's gone.

There's going to be a download link to add Pink apparently (prob replace Red) but won't be at tournaments if they stick with this plan for obvious reasons.

 

[G13_Flux]

theres really no need to look to smash 4 for insight. i think these costumes look great, and in addition, this is kinda the place where the dev team can deviate from the mold nintendo created. it wouldnt really be good for us to start taking things from smash 4, and in some cases, nintendo might actually consider it copyright infingement.

 

[Player -0]

That's not what I said .-.

They changed it from Brawl to look like Smash 4 (which is updated of version of Samus in general) but kept very little of the Brawl aspect. It's Smash 4 ZSS with a little bit of change.

I mean there are differences because no bracelet/boots/stuff but still. It's supes Smash 4.

Also I don't think copyright would happen unless jet boots happened.

And those probably won't happen.

 

[Bash2King]

http://imgur.com/a/SOXUJ

Wait so this is Zero Suits Official PM Texture now? Im both for and against this For being that Brawl Zero Suit looks terrible once you see Wii U Zero Suit Against because this already exists on Brawl Vault and a Wii U Zero Suit Skin exists thats better, but overall pretty sweet

 

[Player -0]

Yeah. It's ZSS' default texture now.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Anybody see the ZSS Alt skins posted on their FB page? I'm gonna use White ZSS. :D

 

[Player -0]

Yeah.

Link: http://imgur.com/a/2YYtT

I've already talked about my opinions a bit in a different thread. CSP looks weird, don't like some of the stuff still.

In game screen shots look pretty good for some. I'm PROBABLY going to use white too (even though no ponytail ;-; )

 

[NWRL]

Just picked up ZSS a few days ago

This character is insane.

Do you guys have any general tips for the character?

 

[Avro-Arrow]

If you use the crawl function, and go backwards really slowly or at an edge, she twerks.

 

[Bash2King]

Wow those look great Idk about all of you but Im Using Purple and Black

 

[_Chrome]

I'll probably use the original costume, short shorts costume or the Justin Bailey outfit. They all look really good though, no doubts about it. As for general tips, first things first learn how to move around the stage really quickly, and figure out whether you're the type of ZSS to use whip moves, a lot of blaster and running away, or being full on aggressive with grabs and shffls. Figure out what your favourite stage is, etc.