3.6 Wolf Changes

[NinKenDo64]

ppl were talking about bair, i've put down pm for quite some time so i just want to make sure you can still autocancel short hop bair, yeah?

No worries friend, autocancel short hop bair is still intact

 

[XF_Awkward]

ppl were talking about bair, i've put down pm for quite some time so i just want to make sure you can still autocancel short hop bair, yeah?

yeth.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Someone tell me the damage of Fox's dair please, or just look into Spacy shield pressure. People who say Wolf doesn't have good shield pressure dont know what they are talking about. Fox dair (I think, can't find individual hit percents to verify) does 2-3% depending on the hit with 9 frames of landing lag. Compare that to Wolf, who has 7 frames of landing lag and a landing hit! Here is why landing hits are important: First of all, being multihit + landing hit means you are protected with hitboxes the whole way up (rather then strong moves that you need to balance between hitting late to be safe on shield and hitting early to prevent an early counterattack). Not only that, but you always get the same safety. Landing hit on frame 1, equal hitlag, then stun on frames 2 and 3, then vulnerable frames 4-7, making it ALWAYS -4. Stale moves can't make the shield stun worse either, its at the bottom. I doubt Fox's is better then that. Look into the frame data of "good shield pressure" and you will see there is lots of holes. What makes Fox, Falco, Wolf, Lucario (know the least of his...), and Lucas great is they can do more then space/crossup shields. They have the flexibility (through shine/ohc/asc/magnet/djc) of covering most escape options. Requires prediction, but if you aren't into that you can always land, shine, Nair crossup and its still way more effective at dealing with shields then most.

tl;dr Look at the frame data for "good" shield pressure that works in melee, you will see wolf is very well off...

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Someone tell me the damage of Fox's dair please, or just look into Spacy shield pressure. People who say Wolf doesn't have good shield pressure dont know what they are talking about. Fox dair (I think, can't find individual hit percents to verify) does 2-3% depending on the hit with 9 frames of landing lag. Compare that to Wolf, who has 7 frames of landing lag and a landing hit! Here is why landing hits are important: First of all, being multihit + landing hit means you are protected with hitboxes the whole way up (rather then strong moves that you need to balance between hitting late to be safe on shield and hitting early to prevent an early counterattack). Not only that, but you always get the same safety. Landing hit on frame 1, equal hitlag, then stun on frames 2 and 3, then vulnerable frames 4-7, making it ALWAYS -4. Stale moves can't make the shield stun worse either, its at the bottom. I doubt Fox's is better then that. Look into the frame data of "good shield pressure" and you will see there is lots of holes. What makes Fox, Falco, Wolf, Lucario (know the least of his...), and Lucas great is they can do more then space/crossup shields. They have the flexibility (through shine/ohc/asc/magnet/djc) of covering most escape options. Requires prediction, but if you aren't into that you can always land, shine, Nair crossup and its still way more effective at dealing with shields then most.

tl;dr Look at the frame data for "good" shield pressure that works in melee, you will see wolf is very well off...

I don't think anyone is saying wolf has bad shield pressure, he just doesn't have as good shield pressure compared to 3.5 Wolf by one frame.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

I guess I saw redcometchar post multiple times and didn't realize they were of the same person. Also, along similar lines, I misinterpreted the 25 cents thing as saying Wolfs pressure isn't as good as Fox/Falco (which is false). Also worth noting it wasn't just one frame. The landing hit decreased in dmg by one, yes, which decreses stun by one. They also increased hitlag to 1.0 from .5. Because shielding opponents always receive 1.0 hitlag and the hitlag was at 4 frames, you only experienced 2 but they experienced 4. So it was actually made less safe by 3 frames.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I thought the change was .5 hitlag from Nair to 1.0 doubling the time on the opponent. If I am wrong can someone explain how hitlag works for me.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Hitlag scales with damage using the formula floor(dmg/3) + 3. Floor always rounds down. If there is a hitlag multiplier, you multiply it by the number of normal hitlag frames, round down, and that's the hitlag of that hitbox. When you hit someone, you both receive the same hitlag (which btw is the duration which SDI is possible, and when you must have di inputted). The only exception is electric attacks, where you receive 1.0 and they receive 1.5.

With shields, the victim always receives 1.0 hitlag, no matter the multiplier. The attacker still receives the multiplied value. So if thehitlag multiplier was less then 1, the attacker has more advantage then usual (normally hitlag isn't a factor). If the multiplier is greater then 1, the attacker has worse advantage. Where I found out about this was Lucas' magnet which only had 1 frame of hitlag in 3.02, which made it great for shield pressure and was nerfed.

 

[proto235]

ppl were talking about bair, i've put down pm for quite some time so i just want to make sure you can still autocancel short hop bair, yeah?

Yeah, you still can. Same with fair.

 

[Diabound]

Talking about bair...

Reverse bair sweetspot is amazing at catching out bad DI and getting early kills.

You can easily follow it up from a down throw or back throw on most characters.