3.6 backthrow

[4tlas]

Okay, you know what's actually really freaking sweet now? Sheik's pivot grab. Run behind them, pivot grab, and back throw off the ledge to set up an easy edgeguard.

I thought that was better with the mixup. Also why not just normal grab and fthrow, isn't that a similar effect?

 

[Journal]

I thought that was better with the mixup. Also why not just normal grab and fthrow, isn't that a similar effect?

So pivot grabs are really sweet for a few reasons.

1. It catches the spot dodge timing whereas an fthrow from the front won't.
2. Usually people don't have as good of options out of shield when you're behind them
3. I think back throw will actually send them back farther than f-throw but if someone could verify that for me that'd be great.
4. Having tricky movement, like not always being satisfied with being in front of the other guy, is generally pretty sweet.
5. With an fthrow, grabbing ledge just isn't as quick for Sheik, and grabbing ledge is one of our best ways to start covering options.

So the mixup was better for general on stage things, but I don't think you're really gonna catch people with the mixup at the ledge, and on the ledge, it actually wasn't great. For a lot of floaties, like Luigi, they could actually DI to get back on stage at low percents, so gimps weren't as good. With the new backthrow, it's going to send all characters further back, which lets you cover more options and get to the ledge.

Edit: Also, another reason it's better for that than the old di mixup b-throw is because that just wouldn't set up well for gimps against fast fallers. At low percents, they could often fall fast enough and DI to the ledge without even having to use a jump, and as a gimp character, that's not what we want. Sending them farther away at least forces them to burn their double jump.

 

[Journal]

Though I still wish there were more differentiation from melee Sheik, I think that given the trend towards worse recoveries, an edgeguard heavy character like Sheik might be able to consider the current backthrow a buff.

 

[EmptySky00]

Sheik feels really good this version. I think she's in a good spot now.

 

[Arcalyth]

The more I embrace the tech chase (even off of bthrow) the more I'm inclined to agree, but I've been playing 90% Zelda and 10% Sheik in this patch where I usually play both even or even bias sheik a bit. Zelda just feels too good now lol

 

[Missile]

I've been playing Sheik for a while now and I can't help but hate how they keep changing her for the worse. Why does she have to get her throws changed while there's characters like Ike, MK, Pit and Sonic with great grab followups AS WELL AS great bunchofotherstuff too.

Sheik in 3.5 was basically a grab-based character with two combo starters (dtilt and ftilt), a fast combo finisher + pressure tool (fair) and ranged edgeguard tools (needle+bair)

Now, she's basically an edgeguard machine with barely any neutral game in her, a horrible crouch cancel, her every move can be crouch canceled and she can no longer do anything about someone just holding down when she attacks, and shielding everything else.

I feel like Pit is an improved version of shiek, with an albeit worse projectile in most situations. But his grab game is definitely better, while having a better neutral, much better recovery and just as good tech chase game.

I honestly feel like Sheik is unviable in this version. 3.02 Sheik required a ridiculous amount of skill and precision to fight the cast, 3.5 Sheik required much less thanks to cast-wide recovery nerfs that were very much needed, but she still took a lot of skill to play correctly, while letting aggressive players play her aggressively, and more campy players play campy.

Now she feels like the only way to play her is by camping your opponent out as much as you can to raise their percent and try and finish them off with a tilt->fair or uair. This is worse than Melee NTSC and PAL Sheik. She feels like the worse version of either edition of Melee, with nerfed needles, crappy throws and a cast that can crouch cancel everything she does, and can custom combo her all day.

 

[Denjinpachi]

Now if only they would PAL-ify Falco. No character should have a true spike which lasts that long... (>_<)

in all fairness though, current falco is about the same as current fox. can't take everything from him. they took alotta damage potential from laser camping, and just made it a control tool, shines not invulnerable so he can get traded, clanked, and grabbed out of a combo, back air is also weakened as well as neutral air. he's definitely reduced enough to have that one tool left to be his "exceptional" character quality.