2020 US Presidential Election Discussion

[StoicPhantom]

I was going to comment on Dems taking the Senate again, but I see that the thread has devolved into hysteria much like the world currently, so I guess I'll wait until tomorrow or whenever things get less silly.

Why’s everyone more upset at these mostly peaceful protests than they were the ones that literally had DC burning?

For the same reason they were going to bring down a system that was supposedly steeped in white supremacy and abolish the police before they decided to heel turn into pearl clutching over the ~sanctity~ of said power structure being violated and started begging for the National Guard to intervene.

Their guy finally won and people's brains have been addled by culture war, so we must uphold the legitimacy of a process we've been questioning for the last four years.

This is known as a false equivalence. The idea that one stupid act will nullify another, thus justifying a group of people happening to break into congress buildings during the ratification of the next president. This is why people dont take the right seriously, because arguing that because one group set the city fire is the exact same as known white nationalists violently breaking into a locked down building so they can "send a message" is considered "well. its ok."

You also never actually addressed the issue going right now, giving a half statement which we can all assume is condoning and agreeing with said actions.

That's not false equivalence, that's rightfully calling out hypocrisy.

After four years of insinuating Trump is a manchurian candidate and that his democratic election was illegitimate because Russia "stole" the election, we are now going to histrionically call Trump supporters traitors for doing the same thing and demand some sort of retribution. This after coming off the most damaging riots in history that were described as "Fiery but mostly peaceful" by the media who now describes the current events as "Violent pro-Trump mob". Not to mention how there was a woman who was killed by police that is now being painted as justified because she's not on our team.

I'm not exactly a Trump fan nor do I find this performative LARP to have a point, but I still find the sheer hypocrisy revolting.

 

[Alicorn]

The fact he's calling this a peaceful protest when it's the first time in over 200 years that the most secure building in the US has been taken over proves he's not going to listen and his previous posts have said 'only the left are violent!' Despite multiple accounts of rightwing domestic terrorism in the US with the most recent example prior to this coup attempt being the Christmas suicide bomber and the terrorist Kyle Rittenhouse or however you spell his name being bailed out despite killing mutiple people, I don't think he's going to listen.

People like Skyblade have no loyalty to the country just to themselves, no different from the Confederates who tore the country asunder centuries and a half ago. They lost their way, its all I can say,

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I was going to comment on Dems taking the Senate again, but I see that the thread has devolved into hysteria much like the world currently, so I guess I'll wait until tomorrow or whenever things get less silly.


For the same reason they were going to bring down a system that was supposedly steeped in white supremacy and abolish the police before they decided to heel turn into pearl clutching over the ~sanctity~ of said power structure being violated and started begging for the National Guard to intervene.

Their guy finally won and people's brains have been addled by culture war, so we must uphold the legitimacy of a process we've been questioning for the last four years.


That's not false equivalence, that's rightfully calling out hypocrisy.

After four years of insinuating Trump is a manchurian candidate and that his democratic election was illegitimate because Russia "stole" the election, we are now going to histrionically call Trump supporters traitors for doing the same thing and demand some sort of retribution. This after coming off the most damaging riots in history that were described as "Fiery but mostly peaceful" by the media who now describes the current events as "Violent pro-Trump mob". Not to mention how there was a woman who was killed by police that is now being painted as justified because she's not on our team.

I'm not exactly a Trump fan nor do I find this performative LARP to have a point, but I still find the sheer hypocrisy revolting.

Please point out to me when armed democrats invaded the capitol leaving bombs behind with democratic leaders egging on for protests, because I only remember dems being the typical spineless cowards they are who'd only go "naughty naughty stole the election" without actually doing anything as again, dems are spineless cowards who care more about image of the status quo than any actual issues

 

[drag0nscythe]

I was going to comment on Dems taking the Senate again, but I see that the thread has devolved into hysteria much like the world currently, so I guess I'll wait until tomorrow or whenever things get less silly.


For the same reason they were going to bring down a system that was supposedly steeped in white supremacy and abolish the police before they decided to heel turn into pearl clutching over the ~sanctity~ of said power structure being violated and started begging for the National Guard to intervene.

Their guy finally won and people's brains have been addled by culture war, so we must uphold the legitimacy of a process we've been questioning for the last four years.


That's not false equivalence, that's rightfully calling out hypocrisy.

After four years of insinuating Trump is a manchurian candidate and that his democratic election was illegitimate because Russia "stole" the election, we are now going to histrionically call Trump supporters traitors for doing the same thing and demand some sort of retribution. This after coming off the most damaging riots in history that were described as "Fiery but mostly peaceful" by the media who now describes the current events as "Violent pro-Trump mob". Not to mention how there was a woman who was killed by police that is now being painted as justified because she's not on our team.

I'm not exactly a Trump fan nor do I find this performative LARP to have a point, but I still find the sheer hypocrisy revolting.

No. It is false equivalence. Saying that groups rioting and setting fire to things is the exact same as a group that invaded the operational center of our government during a well known and establish government function that literally controls the fate of the country, a group that left bombs behind, a group that threw the American flag out to put up their Trump/federate is false equivalence. It is tu quoque fallacy more specifically.

We can also very easily say that given events, the Trump protesters were treated very fairly. No cops massing them. No unmarked vans. None of the stuff we saw before.

 

[Alicorn]

S StoicPhantom

These people stormed the US capital and injured several people. This is what I was talking about earlier fetishizing rebellion lead to a tolerance of rebellion. All those people who stormed the capital and incited insurrection are traitors every last one of them. If we don't put our foot down against theses rebels if we do not this will only embolden future actions.

And about the burning city, Antifa and BLM were in not any way responsible for what happened there. This "the left burning down cities" was debunked by the FBI and The Washington Post respectively.

 

[drag0nscythe]

CBS News: 25th Amendment being discussed among Cabinet members to remove President Trump from office

CBS News' Margaret Brennan said members of President Donald Trump's cabinet are discussing whether to invoke the 25th Amendment, which would remove Trump from office and make Vice President Mike Pence the commander-in-chief.

www.channel3000.com

I also want to add that, yes we had riots in the summer. But those did not lead to the president being considered for being removed. Remember. Trump stocked this unnecessary conflict. The riots stemmed from police brutality. Not the president of the united states being mad he lost a fair election.

 

[Skyblade12]

CBS News: 25th Amendment being discussed among Cabinet members to remove President Trump from office

CBS News' Margaret Brennan said members of President Donald Trump's cabinet are discussing whether to invoke the 25th Amendment, which would remove Trump from office and make Vice President Mike Pence the commander-in-chief.

www.channel3000.com

I also want to add that, yes we had riots in the summer. But those did not lead to the president being considered for being removed. Remember. Trump stocked this unnecessary conflict. The riots stemmed from police brutality. Not the president of the united states being mad he lost a fair election.

“Remember, it was all Trump!”
Yeah, you have no idea what stoked this. Your insane intolerance, hypocrisy, violence, and bigotry stoked all of this for years, including Trump. Trump is a symptom, a backlash against your ideology. He caused nothing, and things are not going to get any better for you now that he’s gone. In fact, they’re only going to get worse.

The corporate shill party that you’ve cheered on as they spat on you and cheated you out of elections has already kicked the far left to the curb. That you’ve normalized their cheating (still have yet to see any explanation for why certain counties in Georgia suddenly became twice as blue as LA, but only after a 4 hour “pause” when counting actually continued with no poll observers present). No Bernie or leftist will ever win again either. You’re just going to laugh and cheer as your rights are stripped and you’re reduced to living as a slave in your own home, because your masters tell you to.

This is just the beginning. Things are going to get far, far worse. You’ve succeeded in destroying America. Congratulations. You destroyed the police and evil laws that were the rules the conservatives were trying to conserve. Well, those rules are gone now. Enjoy what comes next, because YOU asked for it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Genuine question, I was told this was a strictly mpderated section of the site yet I keep seeing this same dude spread crazy conspiracy theories, deny cases of terrorism and even now claim outright false **** like how the police have successfully been 'destroyed' despite both republicans and democrays in power not actually doing anything beyond a slap of the wrist, am I safe to assume I was lied to?

 

[Alicorn]

“Remember, it was all Trump!”
Yeah, you have no idea what stoked this. Your insane intolerance, hypocrisy, violence, and bigotry stoked all of this for years, including Trump. Trump is a symptom, a backlash against your ideology. He caused nothing, and things are not going to get any better for you now that he’s gone. In fact, they’re only going to get worse.

The corporate shill party that you’ve cheered on as they spat on you and cheated you out of elections has already kicked the far left to the curb. That you’ve normalized their cheating (still have yet to see any explanation for why certain counties in Georgia suddenly became twice as blue as LA, but only after a 4 hour “pause” when counting actually continued with no poll observers present). No Bernie or leftist will ever win again either. You’re just going to laugh and cheer as your rights are stripped and you’re reduced to living as a slave in your own home, because your masters tell you to.

This is just the beginning. Things are going to get far, far worse. You’ve succeeded in destroying America. Congratulations. You destroyed the police and evil laws that were the rules the conservatives were trying to conserve. Well, those rules are gone now. Enjoy what comes next, because YOU asked for it.

...Corporate party? Trump and his GOP enablers are the biggest corporate shrills of all time. All of the regulations and protections Obama put in place Trump went out of his way to remove them. Trump literally put Steve Munchin the very man who profited from the 2008 housing crisis in charge of the US Treasury.

Mitch McConnell held up Covid relief giving Big businesses trillions of dollars in aid and trying to make it harder for employees to sue businesses who expose them to covid.

Sky Blade you can't be serious this is literally industrial revolution level of disregard here. Please have some empathy.

 

[Skyblade12]

...Corporate party? Trump and his GOP enablers are the biggest corporate shrills of all time. All of the regulations and protections Obama put in place Trump went out of his way to remove them. Trump literally put Steve Munchin the very man who profited from the 2008 housing crisis in charge of the US Treasury.

Mitch McConnell held up Covid relief giving Big businesses trillions of dollars in aid and trying to make it harder for employees to sue businesses who expose them to covid.

Sky Blade you can't be serious this is literally industrial revolution level of disregard here.

And yet every major corporation actively shills for and donates to your candidates. Ever wonder why that is?
Regulations help major corporations. Major corporations have the resources to handle restrictions, small businesses do not. Those regulations crushed competition for the mega corps that absolutely love rules written by their lobbying groups for their benefit.

And Pelosi literally held up aid until she could send billions overseas and to Dem pork projects.

Please have some empathy.

I have far more for you than you do for anyone who disagrees with your insane, cancerous ideology. Maybe if you had some empathy for people who just want you to leave them alone, this never would have happened

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1047935416182235136?s=20

Oh, wait, you guys never broke into government buildings, right?

Genuine question, I was told this was a strictly mpderated section of the site yet I keep seeing this same dude spread crazy conspiracy theories, deny cases of terrorism and even now claim outright false **** like how the police have successfully been 'destroyed' despite both republicans and democrays in power not actually doing anything beyond a slap of the wrist, am I safe to assume I was lied to?

Oh, yes, please. Ban me. All you authoritarians no how to do. “All cops are bad”. “Unless they’re shootings Trump supporters or silencing people who disagree with us!”
Cant have any actual DISCUSSION on this forum, can you? Cant risk any actual independent thought that differs from your beloved narrative. So ban it. Is it any wonder that forums like this are dying when your side is so bigoted that it bans anyone who disagrees with them?

Go ahead and ban me. Oh, no. I’m banned from a dying forum that people only still even knew about because of the Geno bandwagon!

 

[StoicPhantom]

Please point out to me when armed democrats invaded the capitol leaving bombs behind with democratic leaders egging on for protests, because I only remember dems being the typical spineless cowards they are who'd only go "naughty naughty stole the election" without actually doing anything as again, dems are spineless cowards who care more about image of the status quo than any actual issues

2016 Oakland riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2016 Portland, Oregon riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anti-Trump protests, some violent, erupt for 3rd night nationwide

Police used pepper spray on demonstrators in Portland, Ore., after a peaceful protest turned into what they called a riot.

www.usatoday.com

Ignoring the spin on the "bad protesters" as being "anarchists" there was riots when Trump was elected on the basis of illegitimacy. If you go back and reread my post you'll notice that I only mentioned Dems in the first sentence and didn't refer to those opposed to the current protests as Democrats. But the fact that that is what you jumped to means you know what I'm referring to. Though I'm not referring to Democrats specifically but the "Cultural Left" if you will.

Whether or not the means of the violence are the same wasn't my point. The point was that the last four years has been nothing but Democrats, the media, and various liberal influencers gaslighting people over Donald Trump's election being illegitimate. And mixed in with that was heavy doses of him being compromised by Russia (he's a Russian asset), his supporters being violent fringe lunatics, and that our democracy is "at stake" and has been "compromised" and we must "take it back".

And whether you believe it or not, violence is not only physical. Violent language exists as you might know from the thread currently whining about Trump "inciting" the current events. But as illustrated above the Cultural Left has been doing that as well by feeding into people's fears and planting in them the idea that our government is controlled by Russia and that Donald Trump is going to bring us to ruin.

And that then lead to the riots I linked above because when you gaslight an audience into believing a Red Dawn is actually happening then they tend to react rather irrationally and violently. And what happens when Trump does the same is what you see happening now. Both "sides" are then guilty of gaslighting their supporters into believing the other is a traitor that will bring the country to ruin.

So when major media networks like MSNBC spend the last four years plastering Russia all over their network and scaremongering their audience into believing Trump subverted our democracy in Russia's favor then it's not really any surprise that you have large swaths of people that are instrumentalized into believing they are all that stands between democracy and a fascist dictatorship and could do anything.

Like, there is all this talk about Fox News transforming people into perpetually angry and afraid people and that is a valid observation. But MSNBC does exactly the same and in the same ways. I personally know completely normal people that have turned into the liberal equivalent of Fox News guzzlers and they can't be reasoned with either.

So when you have people that are instrumentalized in this way acting as a foil to those Fox News viewers by saying crazy **** like they are all traitors that must be punished then is it really any wonder that they are going to equate a Biden victory with their potential demise? I mean as it is this

CBS News: 25th Amendment being discussed among Cabinet members to remove President Trump from office CBS News' Margaret Brennan said members of President Donald Trump's cabinet are discussing whether to invoke the 25th Amendment, which would remove Trump from office and make Vice President Mike Pence the commander-in-chief. www.channel3000.com

is what they are now planning to do in retaliation to what is currently happening and is actual authoritarianism.

And this is what I'm referring to when I talk of hypocrisy. If Donald Trump is guilty of inciting violence and must be punished then so too should every Dem politician, every media pundit, and every liberal personality that screeched about this for doing the same.


And this is really what we call "getting what you deserve". These moronic politicians, on both sides, have been brewing this culture war for decades because it helps distract from them pillaging the country in the name of the corporations. And now they have the audacity to clutch pearls despite being entirely responsible for the growing hatred and violence in our politics? If anything, having the capitol stormed was good for putting pressure on these politicians in a way that is actually tangible.

No. It is false equivalence. Saying that groups rioting and setting fire to things is the exact same as a group that invaded the operational center of our government during a well known and establish government function that literally controls the fate of the country, a group that left bombs behind, a group that threw the American flag out to put up their Trump/federate is false equivalence. It is tu quoque fallacy more specifically.

We can also very easily say that given events, the Trump protesters were treated very fairly. No cops massing them. No unmarked vans. None of the stuff we saw before.

Yes, the "operational center of our government" that was the target of the D.C. riots. Or did we forget about the anger when Trump set the police on the protesters so he could have his photo op at the church? Just because the protesters were thwarted in getting in at the time doesn't mean that they wouldn't have stormed it if given the opportunity. Not to mention taking over entire blocks and declaring them independent zones (CHAZ etc) if we're going down the Respect Murica road.

Yeah, I wouldn't call being shot and killed "being treated fairly" anymore than I would say being beaten and pepper sprayed the same. And if we're going to say that she deserved it for illegally trespassing, AKA breaking the law, then you could say the same for protesters or those killed for resisting arrest.

S StoicPhantom

These people stormed the US capital and injured several people. This is what I was talking about earlier fetishizing rebellion lead to a tolerance of rebellion. All those people who stormed the capital and incited insurrection are traitors every last one of them. If we don't put our foot down against theses rebels if we do not this will only embolden future actions.

And about the burning city, Antifa and BLM were in not any way responsible for what happened there. This "the left burning down cities" was debunked by the FBI and The Washington Post respectively.

Yeah, and the summer protesters also stormed businesses and injured several people. People were shot and killed in those CHAZ zones. And I would like for the FBI and WaPo to explain how 2 billion dollars worth of damages was caused by a small group of anarchists or whatever excuse they made.

I'm not trying to play a whataboutism game here, I'm trying to point out the hypocrisy in the current narrative. If you can sympathize with the summer protests even if you don't (or do) agree with the methods, but condemn the current ones as insurrections and the people doing them as evil then you are being a hypocrite. It's literally the difference between "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" and "Violent pro-Trump supporters storm capitol and people died".

 

[Alicorn]

You are playing what aboutisms...

 

[StoicPhantom]

You are playing what aboutisms...

...Not if you pay attention to the point I'm making in my post. I'm not taking sides here, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the culture war. Whataboutism is when you try to excuse one's behavior by pointing to similar behavior on the other side. A sort of "you do it too so that makes me doing it okay". I'm saying both sides doing it is bad because it is inherently bad.

 

[Alicorn]

No you are not, you are using whataboutisms and pretending to be neutral a common tactic that the right wing use in arguments. I been though the right wing I am very familiar with these kinds of tactics.


I will say this again. Those people who stormed the capital and those who encourage or defend their actions as well as instigate it are traitors to the country. They are domestic terrorist and must be taken seriously. From Trump to Alex Jones must face the consequences for their actions.

 

[Skyblade12]

You are playing what aboutisms...

Yep, I absolutely am. We played fairly and lost. You rioted and cheated and won. You were convinced that we would just roll over and submit, because that’s what establishment GOP has done your whole life. But the GOP voters are sick of rolling over for the left. We have a choice between playing fair and losing, or playing by the left’s rules, which give us a chance at winning? Yep, we’re adopting the left’s tactics. Don’t like it? Should have thought of that earlier. We literally did warn you that the right would do this if you normalized it.

 

[StoicPhantom]

No you are not, you are using whataboutisms and pretending to be neutral a common tactic that the right wing use in arguments. I been though the right wing I am very familiar with these kinds of tactics.

Then prove it because I think I explained my case fairly well. For instance:

And this is really what we call "getting what you deserve". These moronic politicians, on both sides, have been brewing this culture war for decades because it helps distract from them pillaging the country in the name of the corporations. And now they have the audacity to clutch pearls despite being entirely responsible for the growing hatred and violence in our politics? If anything, having the capitol stormed was good for putting pressure on these politicians in a way that is actually tangible.

gives a hint to what I think about the culture war on the whole. All you're doing is basically saying to trust you because you were once on the right. And if that is supposed to imply I'm also on the right then I'm more than happy to prove I can out left you. Because all you're really making me think is that you just hopped to the other side of the same coin and are still being your old tribalist self, just with different aesthetics.

I'm not neutral, but opposed to the premise of the culture war itself. Meaning, not only do I think both of you are silly, but I think you are killing actual politics with this performative nonsense. There's a reason my posts are usually structured around specific policy goals and the people who oppose them and not whether or not one side is good or evil (SPOILERS: they both are evil).

 

[Alicorn]

The right wing hate the left because the right lost the cultural war, they don't have mainstream media, they don't have international support but there is one thing they do have and its political power. But even that is slipping from their fist like sand. How do we know this? Trump is the most popular Republican president period. Trump was the best the Republicans could do and now he is a political corpse. He has no power to help the Republicans accomplish their goals. Mitch lost the Senate and the narrative that he and the Republicans since Reagan have spent 40 years building. The only power they hold is the courts and they had to run over precedence to accomplish this feat...twice. This is not an act of glory this is an act of desperation to remain relevant in a rapidly changing world.

S StoicPhantom You are going on and on about a culture war, the culture war is a right wing construct. You also use whataboutisms to play both sides. Its not that difficult to spot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

2016 Oakland riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2016 Portland, Oregon riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anti-Trump protests, some violent, erupt for 3rd night nationwide

Police used pepper spray on demonstrators in Portland, Ore., after a peaceful protest turned into what they called a riot.

www.usatoday.com

Ignoring the spin on the "bad protesters" as being "anarchists" there was riots when Trump was elected on the basis of illegitimacy. If you go back and reread my post you'll notice that I only mentioned Dems in the first sentence and didn't refer to those opposed to the current protests as Democrats. But the fact that that is what you jumped to means you know what I'm referring to. Though I'm not referring to Democrats specifically but the "Cultural Left" if you will.

Whether or not the means of the violence are the same wasn't my point. The point was that the last four years has been nothing but Democrats, the media, and various liberal influencers gaslighting people over Donald Trump's election being illegitimate. And mixed in with that was heavy doses of him being compromised by Russia (he's a Russian asset), his supporters being violent fringe lunatics, and that our democracy is "at stake" and has been "compromised" and we must "take it back".

And whether you believe it or not, violence is not only physical. Violent language exists as you might know from the thread currently whining about Trump "inciting" the current events. But as illustrated above the Cultural Left has been doing that as well by feeding into people's fears and planting in them the idea that our government is controlled by Russia and that Donald Trump is going to bring us to ruin.

And that then lead to the riots I linked above because when you gaslight an audience into believing a Red Dawn is actually happening then they tend to react rather irrationally and violently. And what happens when Trump does the same is what you see happening now. Both "sides" are then guilty of gaslighting their supporters into believing the other is a traitor that will bring the country to ruin.

So when major media networks like MSNBC spend the last four years plastering Russia all over their network and scaremongering their audience into believing Trump subverted our democracy in Russia's favor then it's not really any surprise that you have large swaths of people that are instrumentalized into believing they are all that stands between democracy and a fascist dictatorship and could do anything.

Like, there is all this talk about Fox News transforming people into perpetually angry and afraid people and that is a valid observation. But MSNBC does exactly the same and in the same ways. I personally know completely normal people that have turned into the liberal equivalent of Fox News guzzlers and they can't be reasoned with either.

So when you have people that are instrumentalized in this way acting as a foil to those Fox News viewers by saying crazy **** like they are all traitors that must be punished then is it really any wonder that they are going to equate a Biden victory with their potential demise? I mean as it is this

is what they are now planning to do in retaliation to what is currently happening and is actual authoritarianism.

And this is what I'm referring to when I talk of hypocrisy. If Donald Trump is guilty of inciting violence and must be punished then so too should every Dem politician, every media pundit, and every liberal personality that screeched about this for doing the same.


And this is really what we call "getting what you deserve". These moronic politicians, on both sides, have been brewing this culture war for decades because it helps distract from them pillaging the country in the name of the corporations. And now they have the audacity to clutch pearls despite being entirely responsible for the growing hatred and violence in our politics? If anything, having the capitol stormed was good for putting pressure on these politicians in a way that is actually tangible.


Yes, the "operational center of our government" that was the target of the D.C. riots. Or did we forget about the anger when Trump set the police on the protesters so he could have his photo op at the church? Just because the protesters were thwarted in getting in at the time doesn't mean that they wouldn't have stormed it if given the opportunity. Not to mention taking over entire blocks and declaring them independent zones (CHAZ etc) if we're going down the Respect Murica road.

Yeah, I wouldn't call being shot and killed "being treated fairly" anymore than I would say being beaten and pepper sprayed the same. And if we're going to say that she deserved it for illegally trespassing, AKA breaking the law, then you could say the same for protesters or those killed for resisting arrest.


Yeah, and the summer protesters also stormed businesses and injured several people. People were shot and killed in those CHAZ zones. And I would like for the FBI and WaPo to explain how 2 billion dollars worth of damages was caused by a small group of anarchists or whatever excuse they made.

I'm not trying to play a whataboutism game here, I'm trying to point out the hypocrisy in the current narrative. If you can sympathize with the summer protests even if you don't (or do) agree with the methods, but condemn the current ones as insurrections and the people doing them as evil then you are being a hypocrite. It's literally the difference between "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" and "Violent pro-Trump supporters storm capitol and people died".

Thank you for your sources but none of these examples include storming what's meant to be a highly defended building with guards armed to the teeth, nor does a quick read show anyone involved in the riots you mentioned being armed with guns themselves and threatening politicians, what I do find curious is how the response to the riots you linked show an aggressive police force using tear gas and rubber bullets, whereas now, the police are taking selfies and letting people in. These are not the same scenarios as while both are opposed to an election result and have protesters attack police, the scale and responses are vastly different. Even ignoring the whataboutism, this is unacceptable

 

[osby]

Yep, I absolutely am. We played fairly and lost. You rioted and cheated and won. You were convinced that we would just roll over and submit, because that’s what establishment GOP has done your whole life. But the GOP voters are sick of rolling over for the left. We have a choice between playing fair and losing, or playing by the left’s rules, which give us a chance at winning? Yep, we’re adopting the left’s tactics. Don’t like it? Should have thought of that earlier. We literally did warn you that the right would do this if you normalized it.

So... this post is something that's allowed on this site.

There's playing the victim role to gain the moral high ground and then there's equating an armed coup attempt with protests against human rights violations. I wish I could say I'm not surprised but... wow.

 

[Skyblade12]

The right wing hate the left because the right lost the cultural war, they don't have mainstream media, they don't have international support but there is one thing they do have and its political power. But even that is slipping from their fist like sand. How do we know this? Trump is the most popular Republican president period. Trump was the best the Republicans could do and now he is a political corpse. He has no power to help the Republicans accomplish their goals. Mitch lost the Senate and the narrative that he and the Republicans since Reagan have spent 40 years building. The only power they hold is the courts and they had to run over precedence to accomplish this feat...twice. This is not an act of glory this is an act of desperation to remain relevant in a rapidly changing world.

S StoicPhantom You are going on and on about a culture war, the culture war is a right wing construct. You also use whataboutisms to play both sides. Its not that difficult to spot.

“The culture war is a right wing construct.”
Literally the first line of the same post: “the right hates the left because the right lost the culture war”.

Actually, it’s the GOP that lost here, not Trump. That party is dead and gone. Dems will win everything in the midterms, probably the next election, but I suspect the GOP will be replaced by 2028.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For comparison's sake, here's an example of what happened during an actual protest and not a coup

In 2007 Iraq veterans tried to march to the Capitol building to protest the war. Riot police instantly arrested anyone who tried to reach just the Capitol steps; about 100 veterans and 200 of their supporters pic.twitter.com/itjZJYostp

— Eyes Left (@EyesLeftPod) January 6, 2021

I'm not surprised this happened from the party that claims they don't 'childishly destroy property' as I've always known they love this **** as seen in Columbia's schopl shooting, the Las Vegas shooting, Charlottesville riots, etc, but an actual ****ing coup is terrifying when there's blatantly something happening on the inside

Once again I'm going to post this, why was this response so much faster and more aggressive than the actual coup?

 

[Skyblade12]

So... this post is something that's allowed on this site.

There's playing the victim role to gain the moral high ground and then there's equating an armed coup attempt with protests against human rights violations. I wish I could say I'm not surprised but... wow.

Just like the post “holding the right to account” was allowed, advocating for imprisoning Trump voters, or the hundreds of those supporting antifa as they burned cities.

 

[Alicorn]

“The culture war is a right wing construct.”
Literally the first line of the same post: “the right hates the left because the right lost the culture war”.

Actually, it’s the GOP that lost here, not Trump. That party is dead and gone. Dems will win everything in the midterms, probably the next election, but I suspect the GOP will be replaced by 2028.

Trump has upset s lot of people and his aids are jumping ship, there is also talk of impeaching Trump again. If this happens Trump will be impeached a second time. Trump has become political poison now that he has incited an insurrection. No poltician worth their salt would want anything to do with Trump now. Trump also has loans due in in 2024, he is a disgraced American President heading for the gutter it only gets worst from here for him. We use to poke fun and Nixion and Bush but Trump was so bad he made them look good. Trump is going to banished to the halls of infamy his family name will be tarnished for decades to come.

 

[Skyblade12]

Trump has upset s lot of people and his aids are jumping ship, there is also talk of impeaching Trump again. If this happens Trump will be impeached a second time. Trump has become political poison now that he has incited an insurrection. No poltician worth their salt would want anything to do with Trump now. Trump also has loans due in in 2024, he is a disgraced American President heading for the gutter it only gets worst from here for him. We use to poke fun and Nixion and Bush but Trump was so bad he made them look good. Trump is going to banished to the halls of infamy his family name will be tarnished for decades to come.

News flash: Most people hate politicians, so what a “politician worth their salt” would do actually doesn’t mean anything to most people.

 

[Alicorn]

It means that they would hitch their wagon to one of the most dangerous men to the United States. People will rally against Trump and any politician that gets his disgraceful endorsement.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Thank you for your sources but none of these examples include storming what's meant to be a highly defended building with guards armed to the teeth, nor does a quick read show anyone involved in the riots you mentioned being armed with guns themselves and threatening politicians, what I do find curious is how the response to the riots you linked show an aggressive police force using tear gas and rubber bullets, whereas now, the police are taking selfies and letting people in. These are not the same scenarios as while both are opposed to an election result and have protesters attack police, the scale and responses are vastly different. Even ignoring the whataboutism, this is unacceptable

And again I'm not talking about specific means of violence like whether or not someone was literally armed. My broader point, as in the post you originally quoted, was the conditioning done by both parties and both cultural entities to instill hatred and violent tendencies in their base. I didn't make mention of any specific forms of violence, but was commenting on the fact that so-called leftists were suddenly defending a system of power they were fighting mere weeks ago using the same rhetoric their right counterparts were using to defend it.

Like are you aware that RESPEKT DA FLAG and LAW AND ORDER were the cultural signals of conservatives just weeks prior? And that in mere days you all flipped both rhetoric and perspective like it was nothing? Do you not find it just a little bit weird how easy it is for liberals and conservatives to just completely flip their entire narratives at the drop of the hat?

Like you commonly heard liberals talk about burning the whole thing down if Trump nominated another justice to the SCOTUS. And now they're pearl clutching because the likes of

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim pic.twitter.com/OKnq9WArkH

— Nemets (@Peter_Nimitz) January 6, 2021

invaded their now precious halls of what was supposed to be a white supremacist establishment that needed to be torn down.

It's this bizarre behavior and general underlying hypocrisy I was talking about. I didn't even bring up violence specifically in my OP, that's something you added in. If the police are being so friendly to them then perhaps they don't feel threatened even with the presence of guns. Meaning there isn't really that much difference at the end of the day. Especially considering the overwhelming power of the military.


But that's ultimately distracting from my point. As a leftist, I'm opposed to all types of authoritarianism whether it comes from the police, the media, through social pressure, or from conservatives/liberals. And when I see liberals attempt to use traditional structures of power and oppression to punish their cultural enemies for the crime of doing exactly what they have been doing for the last four years, I'm going to call them out on it. Because that's what it means to have principles.

S StoicPhantom You are going on and on about a culture war, the culture war is a right wing construct. You also use whataboutisms to play both sides. Its not that difficult to spot.

Yeah, it's not like there haven't been massive amounts of examples over the years including the last few pages of this thread where two "sides" of minor aesthetic differences are in constant conflict. It's not like I didn't just get done giving an example of exactly that in this post. Nope, totally a right-wing psyop.


And heaven help you guys if you were ever to search back through Twitter to March where liberals were downplaying the pandemic as the next swine flu while conservatives were the ones panicking about as the CDC was telling everyone masks weren't effective. These now mostly deleted tweets would make the cultural flip around the summer look mighty odd and almost like these "sides" only care about sniping at each other like they were in some sort of culture war.

Spoiler

No seriously what the ****?

 

[Skyblade12]

And again I'm not talking about specific means of violence like whether or not someone was literally armed. My broader point, as in the post you originally quoted, was the conditioning done by both parties and both cultural entities to instill hatred and violent tendencies in their base. I didn't make mention of any specific forms of violence, but was commenting on the fact that so-called leftists were suddenly defending a system of power they were fighting mere weeks ago using the same rhetoric their right counterparts were using to defend it.

Like are you aware that RESPEKT DA FLAG and LAW AND ORDER were the cultural signals of conservatives just weeks prior? And that in mere days you all flipped both rhetoric and perspective like it was nothing? Do you not find it just a little bit weird how easy it is for liberals and conservatives to just completely flip their entire narratives at the drop of the hat?

Like you commonly heard liberals talk about burning the whole thing down if Trump nominated another justice to the SCOTUS. And now they're pearl clutching because the likes of

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim pic.twitter.com/OKnq9WArkH

— Nemets (@Peter_Nimitz) January 6, 2021

invaded their now precious halls of what was supposed to be a white supremacist establishment that needed to be torn down.

It's this bizarre behavior and general underlying hypocrisy I was talking about. I didn't even bring up violence specifically in my OP, that's something you added in. If the police are being so friendly to them then perhaps they don't feel threatened even with the presence of guns. Meaning there isn't really that much difference at the end of the day. Especially considering the overwhelming power of the military.


But that's ultimately distracting from my point. As a leftist, I'm opposed to all types of authoritarianism whether it comes from the police, the media, through social pressure, or from conservatives/liberals. And when I see liberals attempt to use traditional structures of power and oppression to punish their cultural enemies for the crime of doing exactly what they have been doing for the last four years, I'm going to call them out on it. Because that's what it means to have principles.


Yeah, it's not like there haven't been massive amounts of examples over the years including the last few pages of this thread where two "sides" of minor aesthetic differences are in constant conflict. It's not like I didn't just get done giving an example of exactly that in this post. Nope, totally a right-wing psyop.


And heaven help you guys if you were ever to search back through Twitter to March where liberals were downplaying the pandemic as the next swine flu while conservatives were the ones panicking about as the CDC was telling everyone masks weren't effective. These now mostly deleted tweets would make the cultural flip around the summer look mighty odd and almost like these "sides" only care about sniping at each other like they were in some sort of culture war.

Spoiler

No seriously what the ****?

If you are a leftist, you are inherently authoritarian. Every leftist policy is rooted in authoritarianism. The entire leftist political structure is to use a centralized authority to distribute things the way YOU want instead of allowing people the freedom to choose what to do with what they have.

 

[StoicPhantom]

If you are a leftist, you are inherently authoritarian. Every leftist policy is rooted in authoritarianism. The entire leftist political structure is to use a centralized authority to distribute things the way YOU want instead of allowing people the freedom to choose what to do with what they have.

You got that backwards my dude. Left has always been anti-authoritarian and Right has always been authoritarian. That's why the right always centers around centralized power structures like the Church, the Military, the Police, and the Nation. And that's why the left is centered around democracy (worker co-ops) and is revolutionary by nature.

Authoritarianism isn't also inherently evil depending on your perspective. If you value things like consignment to traditional or cultural values and think things like abortion should be illegal on moral grounds then you are practicing a form of authoritarianism. It's only evil from a left-wing perspective.

America just has a completely ahistorical and assbackwards view on politics. Go read a book on the subject.

 

[Alicorn]

I do not have a Twitter so why should this concern me?

Trump was the one who politicizing masks, when he knew as early as December that this was going to be a problem. How? because he sent China tons of PPE he knew actually what was going on but chose to downplay it and stroke conflict all so he can make a quick buck by starting bidding wars between the states and the Federal Government. Which means every time he got up there at that press briefing and stroked tensions he knew how serious this was and he made the decision the cold heartless decision to let Americans die. 1 in 1000 Americans are dead because of this man and he doesn't care at all. By choosing not to be honest by choosing to sow discord instead of hope. Trump is deeply responsible for America's current state of strife.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And again I'm not talking about specific means of violence like whether or not someone was literally armed. My broader point, as in the post you originally quoted, was the conditioning done by both parties and both cultural entities to instill hatred and violent tendencies in their base. I didn't make mention of any specific forms of violence, but was commenting on the fact that so-called leftists were suddenly defending a system of power they were fighting mere weeks ago using the same rhetoric their right counterparts were using to defend it.

Like are you aware that RESPEKT DA FLAG and LAW AND ORDER were the cultural signals of conservatives just weeks prior? And that in mere days you all flipped both rhetoric and perspective like it was nothing? Do you not find it just a little bit weird how easy it is for liberals and conservatives to just completely flip their entire narratives at the drop of the hat?

Like you commonly heard liberals talk about burning the whole thing down if Trump nominated another justice to the SCOTUS. And now they're pearl clutching because the likes of

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim pic.twitter.com/OKnq9WArkH

— Nemets (@Peter_Nimitz) January 6, 2021

invaded their now precious halls of what was supposed to be a white supremacist establishment that needed to be torn down.

It's this bizarre behavior and general underlying hypocrisy I was talking about. I didn't even bring up violence specifically in my OP, that's something you added in. If the police are being so friendly to them then perhaps they don't feel threatened even with the presence of guns. Meaning there isn't really that much difference at the end of the day. Especially considering the overwhelming power of the military.


But that's ultimately distracting from my point. As a leftist, I'm opposed to all types of authoritarianism whether it comes from the police, the media, through social pressure, or from conservatives/liberals. And when I see liberals attempt to use traditional structures of power and oppression to punish their cultural enemies for the crime of doing exactly what they have been doing for the last four years, I'm going to call them out on it. Because that's what it means to have principles.


Yeah, it's not like there haven't been massive amounts of examples over the years including the last few pages of this thread where two "sides" of minor aesthetic differences are in constant conflict. It's not like I didn't just get done giving an example of exactly that in this post. Nope, totally a right-wing psyop.


And heaven help you guys if you were ever to search back through Twitter to March where liberals were downplaying the pandemic as the next swine flu while conservatives were the ones panicking about as the CDC was telling everyone masks weren't effective. These now mostly deleted tweets would make the cultural flip around the summer look mighty odd and almost like these "sides" only care about sniping at each other like they were in some sort of culture war.

Spoiler

No seriously what the ****?

I cannot consider this hypocrisy when you need to significantly downplay how severe the side that's armed with guns and bombs is and how you'd need to ignore the shockingly different responses from those who are meant to stop this. I agree that dems are spineless cowardly little ****s but that has nothing to do with a coup done by literal terrorists seeking to murder political opponents

 

[Alicorn]

I almost forgot about the bomb thing, no I didn't. Those rioters had ambitions of causing massive damage. I hope they all get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If they are not it sends a bad message to enemies and allies alike that America is truly lost.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

Just wanna say that I can respect storming the capitol a hell of a lot more than looting and burning down communities of citizens. If you have a problem with the government, you take it to the government.
Wild how yall were saying acab when it was popular to say it, seems kinda clout chasey to me.

 

[Alicorn]

They found a bomb at the country's capital meaning they were planning to blow up the government. I have no respect for such treachery. They should all be charged with treason for attempting a coup.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

They found a bomb at the country's capital meaning they were planning to blow up the government. I have no respect for such treachery. They should all be charged with treason for attempting a coup.

Who is """"they""""? Are you insiuating that the entire group was planning to "blow up the government"? I really would like to see what you were saying about the blm riots.

 

[osby]

Just wanna say that I can respect storming the capitol a hell of a lot more than looting and burning down communities of citizens. If you have a problem with the government, you take it to the government.
Wild how yall were saying acab when it was popular to say it, seems kinda clout chasey to me.

I think people are still saying that, considering how cops are apparently perfectly OK with armed and violent crowds while they retaliated harshly against peaceful protesters.

Also, you can take your problems to the government democratically. Taking over the capital with guns is not taking your problems to the government. It's the armed version of throwing a temper tantrum because you lost.

 

[StoicPhantom]

I do not have a Twitter so why should this concern me?

Well, you don't have to use Twitter and you could just read old articles on the subject to get a better idea of what the climate was like back then. For instance:

Public Health Experts Keep Changing Their Guidance on Whether or Not to Wear Face Masks for Coronavirus

The government and most health experts keep telling the public not to wear face masks for coronavirus. So why are they doing it anyway?

time.com

Obviously the article was updated, but you can see what the thoughts on masks were. But the broader point I was making was that the culture war between pandemic deniers and truthers was quite different than it was today. And I was using that example to show you that the culture war does exist.

Though for someone who keeps denying it exists you certainly have a difficult time not invoking Trump instead of paying attention to what I'm saying.

...Not if you pay attention to the point I'm making in my post. I'm not taking sides here, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the culture war.

Let's try to stick to the original point here.

I cannot consider this hypocrisy when you need to significantly downplay how severe the side that's armed with guns and bombs is and how you'd need to ignore the shockingly different responses from those who are meant to stop this. I agree that dems are spineless cowardly little ****s but that has nothing to do with a coup done by literal terrorists seeking to murder political opponents

Literally right in your post here. Coup has a particular meaning. A group of Vikings that mildly inconvenienced Congress to delay the proceedings by a few hours is not a coup anymore than Antifa is some sort of organized terrorist squad. It's not like your protests didn't have armed people in them or that protesters shot counterprotesters.

Like, I have it all laid out for you in multiple posts. You keep focusing on one specific thing which is how heavily armed you perceive them to be. The hypocrisy is in the entire "coup" narrative in the first place. There is no coup. In order for a coup to happen you would need a subordinate power structure to usurp a dominant one. If the military used violence to usurp Congress then that would be one thing. But a bunch of LARPers that played around for a few hours is not a coup.

This all stems from the idea that a guy that is supposedly stupid and an embarrassment to the nation, who does nothing but tweet and play golf all day, and is a former reality tv host, is somehow some fascist mastermind that is capable of bringing the most powerful country in the world down. The guy whom nobody actually takes seriously and doesn't even have support from his own party, who is currently thinking about destroying his chance of reelection, is somehow going to be the next Adolf Hitler.

That is completely asinine. Even by liberals' own description he's a buffoon who's completely inept and does nothing but play golf and tweet all day. And yet I'm supposed to believe that the brutal takeovers that fascists have become famous for are done through twitter directives? That our fate lies in the hands of the Vikings with American flag face paint?


You're not even living in reality at this point. This narrative is just as absurd as the narrative that Joe ****ing Biden is some sort of communist dictator that wants to implement Socialism. And while the latter is rightly ridiculed, the former is something liberals have based their politics around to the point that they were glued to their screens for five straight days during the November elections, even to the point of losing sleep, as if the outcome was the most important thing in the world.

So when you have two utterly ridiculous narratives, that one is a communist and the other is a fascist, with their own incisive and inflammatory rhetoric that is goading their respective bases into action, and similar results of riots and various other violent acts (not all of them has to be physical, i.e. cancel culture), and yet both claim they are innocent and the other is the guilty party, then how the hell is that not hypocrisy?


Even taking your very narrow point of one was more armed than the other, if someone kicked your father in the balls and someone beat him to near death, then can you really say that because the latter was worse than the former that the former is okay? Whether or not one was more extreme than the other doesn't change the fact that both actions are inherently violent and immoral.

And trying to excuse one over the other would be hypocrisy.

 

[Alicorn]

BLM protest being compared to a treasonous coup...

They "security services" found a bomb at the country's capital. Planted by the rioters.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I think people are still saying that, considering how cops are apparently perfectly OK with armed and violent crowds while they retaliated harshly against peaceful protesters.

Also, you can take your problems to the government democratically. Taking over the capital with guns is not taking your problems to the government. It's the armed version of throwing a temper tantrum because you lost.

Taking your problems to the government democratically? Of course, that is the first option, but when you have an elevtion with a high amount of visible ****ery and a refusal to investigate it, what is really going to happen at that point?
Look, if these guys were out here clappin up citizens, bustin up businesses I would be condemning them for it 100 percent but I really can't bring myself to do it when they went directly to the government and put them on notice.
Calling this **** a coup is corny as hell, by the way. Americans really ruin the meaning of words when used recklessly like this.

 

[Alicorn]

Taking your problems to the government democratically? Of course, that is the first option, but when you have an elevtion with a high amount of visible ****ery and a refusal to investigate it, what is really going to happen at that point?
Look, if these guys were out here clappin up citizens, bustin up businesses I would be condemning them for it 100 percent but I really can't bring myself to do it when they went directly to the government and put them on notice.
Calling this **** a coup is corny as hell, by the way. Americans really ruin the meaning of words when used recklessly like this.

Do you honestly believe even the election was stolen? Even Mitch and Lindsey Graham admitted that Biden is now the next President of the United States. Trump's most stanch allies certified Biden's win. So if they can do it why can't you?

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

Do you honestly believe even the election was stolen? Even Mitch and Lindsey Graham admitted that Biden is now the next President of the United States. Trump's most stanch allies certified Biden's win. So if they can do it why can't you?

I believe it should, at the very least be investigated.