Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

[Little Nemo]

troll? i don't follow or is it not me

I think he means others. But also you. Your list seems really trolly even if you are being serious.
Also, please stop double and triple posting. I know it's easy to forget. Try to edit.

 

[pichuplayer]

I think he means others. But also you. Your list seems really trolly even if you are being serious.
Also, please stop double and triple posting. I know it's easy to forget. Try to edit.

double posting when?!

 

[Plunder]

double posting when?!

You've double posted 3 times....and pretty much every single time both messages were useless.

Please also stop responding to every single message on here as if it were directed at you. Unless you actually have something productive to contribute to a thread don't comment or message in it. If you want to talk to someone go to their page and post on their wall or PM them.

If these kids are accusing you of trolling the best thing to do is just not respond and ignore them instead of repeatedly getting taking it personally and asking "why? me? what? why? not me?"

 

[pichuplayer]

You've double posted 3 times....and pretty much every single time both messages were useless.

Please also stop responding to every single message on here as if it were directed at you. Unless you actually have something productive to contribute to a thread don't comment or message in it. If you want to talk to someone go to their page and post on their wall or PM them.

If these kids are accusing you of trolling the best thing to do is just not respond and ignore them instead of repeatedly getting taking it personally and asking "why? me? what? why? not me?"

thanks for the infomation and even though its harsh but true have a nice day

 

[lolazerz]

If we ever resolve the lingering issue... Theres not enough (quality) votes to make a respectable list.

Does this mean that people just put like Fox for all slots or you just don't think it looks right ?

 

[lolazerz]

if it counts for anything this is not a troll list
S
Falco
Fox
Shiek
Pikachu
ICs
Peach
C.Falcon
Jigglypuff
Marth
Pichu another hard character to place it might just be that i main Pichu that i put him this high but i do think he is very good
A
Yoshi
Gannon
Dr.Mario
Samus
Luigi
B
Roy he was the hardest to place he was top of B or mid A
DK
Mr. G and W
Mario
Y.Link
Link
F
Ness
Mewtwo
Bowser
Zelda
Kirby
tell me if i missed anyone

This is coming from someone who Mains Roy and who trains with someone who mains Pichu and goes to tourney with them, THEY SUCK

 

[lolazerz]

not exactly i said before that high level play did play a part in my list along with my gameplay in a friendly againsy a fox i 4 stocked him at fod along with my pika beating a marth though it was close so... i think it makes some sense

lamo I 4 stocked a sheik with Roy. does that make him viable. Nah brah



By the way apologies for triple posting I know people literally just talked about this in this thread on this page but I though I was only gonna make one post, then I saw way more material for me to dissect. SORRY

 

[pichuplayer]

lamo I 4 stoked a sheik with Roy. does that make him viable. Nah brah



By the way apologies for triple posting I know people literally just talked about this in this thread on this page but I though I was only gonna make one post, then I saw way more material for me to dissect. SORRY

ok your point i know its stupid but i had to use that in my tier list beacuse while i have seen many tourneys i have not been to one if had it would be different

 

[Link24a]

if it counts for anything this is not a troll list
S
Falco
Fox
Shiek
Pikachu
ICs
Peach
C.Falcon
Jigglypuff
Marth
Pichu another hard character to place it might just be that i main Pichu that i put him this high but i do think he is very good
A
Yoshi
Gannon
Dr.Mario
Samus
Luigi
B
Roy he was the hardest to place he was top of B or mid A
DK
Mr. G and W
Mario
Y.Link
Link
F
Ness
Mewtwo
Bowser
Zelda
Kirby
tell me if i missed anyone

Would you mind elaborating on like all of these?

 

[Mervis]

Just out of curiosity, why is Mario so high? Also, the Links have much better comboing, recovery, knockback, and options (for the most part) than Roy.

Mario is amazing. He has great combo game and decent speed. He just gets outclassed by other characters. Roy over the Links is just personal uneducated opinion. I do feel like Roy is underutilized though.

 

[lolazerz]

ok your point i know its stupid but i had to use that in my tier list beacuse while i have seen many tourneys i have not been to one if had it would be different

I mean no disrespect when I say this and I hope yo take no offence to it but is English not your first language because your text is sometimes very hard to decipher . Anyhow Roy is also just fundamentally a bad idea. The reason why Marth is so good is because he can properly space himself to maximize the damage and knock back. But Roy has to approach to get anywhere, and he has no approaches. Especially given the current meta-game where campy play styles generate good results (this goes for all top level players). And really making a teir list is like signing a yearbook, it should be a reflection of how the characters preform in today's meta-game

Roy over the Links is just personal uneducated opinion. I do feel like Roy is underutilized though.

This guy gets it, He shouldn't be over the Links though just over old man link. Also how is Mario better than the good ol' doctor?

 

[Plunder]

C'mon GUYS, really now Embarrass

1. "old man" Link's Nair is better than Roy's entire moveset, plus he has ACTUALLY set ups into kills on FFers and floaties and throw set ups and set ups out of his FAR SUPERIOR dash attack.

1a. Roy is the perfect weight mixture to be COMBO FOOD, he's so easy to combo and has no escape move. Link has WAY MORE weight which means less hitstun is suffered BUT ALSO he's not AS easy to combo since he's floatier than Roy (plus he has a 4 frame high priority Nair to escape combo pressure)​

2. Mario is a very nebulous character, he's hard to pin to a certain spot on the tier list. I do love playing as him but I recognize when compared to other characters he's not very good. He has amazing combo ability....on FFers....which pretty much every one does. But he has no guaranteed KO set ups, he has to rely on raw F-smashes, Up-smashes or B-throws (stubby grab range :/). He also has major issues with floaties, if his aerial mobility and acceleration were a bit better and his F smash had no sourspot he'd be tied with Dr. Mario.

OWNT!

 

[lolazerz]

C'mon GUYS, really now Embarrass

1. "old man" Link's Nair is better than Roy's entire moveset, plus he has ACTUALLY set ups into kills on FFers and floaties and throw set ups and set ups out of his FAR SUPERIOR dash attack.

1a. Roy is the perfect weight mixture to be COMBO FOOD, he's so easy to combo and has no escape move. Link has WAY MORE weight which means less hitstun is suffered BUT ALSO he's not AS easy to combo since he's floatier than Roy (plus he has a 3 frame high priority Nair to escape combo pressure)​

2. Mario is a very nebulous character, he's hard to pin to a certain spot on the tier list. I do love playing as him but I recognize when compared to other characters he's not very good. He has amazing combo ability....on FFers....which pretty much every one does. But he has no guaranteed KO set ups, he has to rely on raw F-smashes, Up-smashes or B-throws (stubby grab range :/). He also has major issues with floaties, if his aerial mobility and acceleration were a bit better and his F smash had no sourspot he'd be tied with Dr. Mario.

OWNT!

Ayy relax man I was just saying that Roy should be moved up but not too high like 18th but that's pushing it. And thank you for the insight on link's moves I was unaware of his potential because I have seen so little of him lately. I do however know that yung Link is better and I'd put Roy either between them or right behind them

EDIT: Roy is actually terrible (whops I somehow forgot that) yah Roy is worse thank both Y link and Old man Link

 

[Plunder]

Ayy relax man I was just saying that Roy should be moved up but not too high like 18th but that's pushing it. And thank you for the insight on link's moves I was unaware of his potential because I have seen so little of him lately. I do however know that yung Link is better and I'd put Roy either between them or right behind them

Ayy lmao

Roy is fun but what is depressing is that theoretically he can get 0-deathed by most of the top tiers. He is as easy to combo as the spacies but doesn't have a 1 frame combo breaker or any other fast moves to get out of combos, plus his jump isn't nearly as fast or high as the spacies for escaping.

So, if you are playing against anyone remotely good at any of the spacies MUs they are going to already have a feel for comboing that weight and fall speed, and off 1 hit they are going to be able to kill you if they are a med-high level player.

 

[Mervis]

Also how is Mario better than the good ol' doctor?

Just another personal opinion. Mario's fireballs are better and his nair is faster. There's not much of a gap between the two honestly. Of all the clones, Mario/Doc are the most similar.

 

[NastyNard]

I think he means others. But also you. Your list seems really trolly even if you are being serious.
Also, please stop double and triple posting. I know it's easy to forget. Try to edit.

Nah I was almost exclusively referring to Pichuplayer (although I'm sure he's not the only one), I just didn't use his name because I was pretty sure he'd react the way he did and oust himself. I'd stake the left nut of my firstborn son that he's not serious.

On topic though...uh...Link's better than Roy, Doc/Mario are underrated in the current meta, and pikachu is not the best mid-tier.

(No one was talking about pikachu lol, but his placement bugs me more than anyone else's.)

 

[Plunder]

Just another personal opinion. Mario's fireballs are better and his nair is faster. There's not much of a gap between the two honestly. Of all the clones, Mario/Doc are the most similar.

I don't think they are too close at a high level. Maybe at a low-mid level of play.
Doc has almost no good representation right now, and Mario has a bit more. But it doesn't make the facts go away....

1. Pills have more hitstun, do more damage, and have a MUCH MUCH better trajectory for stopping advances (FF pill bounces very high)
2. Doc's Nair is more powerful at the end, still has just about the same KB at the beginning as Mario's
3. Bair is far superior. Initially has more KB and hitstun and it sends at a downward angle, so for edge guarding it's way better.
4. Doc's Dsmash and Fsmash are more powerful and I'd easily say his F-smash is better since he can throw set up KO into the powerful hitbox. Mario's has more disjoint but you can't KO combo into it.
5. Dtilt is actually useful for Doc.
6. Fair....I shouldn't even have to explain.
7. Jab is a little bit better, can jab Dsmash a bit easier.
8. Dash attack is better.

Mario pretty much only has a better Utilt and Mario's recovery is a bit better because of his cape, but that pro can also be a con since Doc's cape hits sweet spotters below the stage.

 

[Mervis]

On topic though...uh...Link's better than Roy, Doc/Mario are underrated in the current meta, and pikachu is not the best mid-tier.

(No one was talking about pikachu lol, but his placement bugs me more than anyone else's.)

Yeah pikachu is highly overrated. People assume he is good because Axe does well with him. Axe is actually just a god at the game. Pikachu is a mid tier for sure but honestly I think Yoshi has potential to be better than Pika.

 

[Mervis]

I don't think they are too close at a high level. Maybe at a low-mid level of play.
Doc has almost no good representation right now, and Mario has a bit more. But it doesn't make the facts go away....

1. Pills have more hitstun, do more damage, and have a MUCH MUCH better trajectory for stopping advances (FF pill bounces very high)
2. Doc's Nair is more powerful at the end, still has just about the same KB at the beginning as Mario's
3. Bair is far superior. Initially has more KB and hitstun and it sends at a downward angle, so for edge guarding it's way better.
4. Doc's Dsmash and Fsmash are more powerful and I'd easily say his F-smash is better since he can throw set up KO into the powerful hitbox. Mario's has more disjoint but you can't KO combo into it.
5. Dtilt is actually useful for Doc.
6. Fair....I shouldn't even have to explain.
7. Jab is a little bit better, can jab Dsmash a bit easier.
8. Dash attack is better.

Mario pretty much only has a better Utilt and Mario's recovery is a bit better because of his cape, but that pro can also be a con since Doc's cape hits sweet spotters below the stage.

1. A low projectile seems better because it forces them to go high if they don't want to deal with it. Certain characters can dash under pills.
2. I'm aware of the iron boot. Good for coverage but Mario's nair comes out faster. Different uses. Mario is used in combos and Doc's is used to cover tech options.
3. I have little knowledge on Doc/Mario bair (Or about the characters in general lel) so no comment.
4. Disjoints over kill potential. I'd pick disjoints imo. Yeah it might not kill but Mario AND Doc have good edge guarding tools so it really depends on the matchup as to who is better.
5. Tru
6. Mario Fair is godlike are you kidding me? Yeah you can meteor cancel it (It's a meteor right?) but you use it to tech chase. Fair puts them in a tech chase situation.
7. "A bit easier" shouldn't be a reason for a character to be better. Remember "Fox is too hard to control so he's not good. Sheik and marth are better"?
8. Both dash attacks are pretty bad anyways so this reason is jank lel.

I wasn't trying to refute all of your reasons. Just throwing in my stupid samus opinions at ya.

 

[pichuplayer]

Yeah pikachu is highly overrated. People assume he is good because Axe does well with him. Axe is actually just a god at the game. Pikachu is a mid tier for sure but honestly I think Yoshi has potential to be better than Pika.

you have a point but Yoshi lacks a third jump which pika does not of course the reason i think pika is better personally is that more people play pika than yoshi and i think mario is worse than doc because of the fact that he is stronger even though mario is still decent

 

[NastyNard]

I don't think they are too close at a high level. Maybe at a low-mid level of play.
Doc has almost no good representation right now, and Mario has a bit more. But it doesn't make the facts go away....

1. Pills have more hitstun, do more damage, and have a MUCH MUCH better trajectory for stopping advances (FF pill bounces very high)
2. Doc's Nair is more powerful at the end, still has just about the same KB at the beginning as Mario's
3. Bair is far superior. Initially has more KB and hitstun and it sends at a downward angle, so for edge guarding it's way better.
4. Doc's Dsmash and Fsmash are more powerful and I'd easily say his F-smash is better since he can throw set up KO into the powerful hitbox. Mario's has more disjoint but you can't KO combo into it.
5. Dtilt is actually useful for Doc.
6. Fair....I shouldn't even have to explain.
7. Jab is a little bit better, can jab Dsmash a bit easier.
8. Dash attack is better.

Mario pretty much only has a better Utilt and Mario's recovery is a bit better because of his cape, but that pro can also be a con since Doc's cape hits sweet spotters below the stage.

Some other advantages Mario has over Doc:
1. Mario can triple jab a lot faster, which can be utilized similarly to the gentleman
2. He has a better chaingrab game (which helps in certain matchups like Sheik. Downthrow also combos into Fsmash against Sheik)
3. His cape is better for recovery than docs
4. He can wall jump, which helps his recovery and edgeguards a lot (wall jump fair is cool as ****)

Doc's advantages are still better IMO (Pills, killing potential), but I believe the two are closer than people think.

Yeah pikachu is highly overrated. People assume he is good because Axe does well with him. Axe is actually just a god at the game. Pikachu is a mid tier for sure but honestly I think Yoshi has potential to be better than Pika.

Yeah, this exactly. Axe is easily one of the most talented smashers in the world (much better than shroomed was with Doc), and he makes everyone look good (he makes y. link look AMAZING in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUarsV0Mk4). Pikachu has good qualities of course, but also some very crippling weaknesses...I'd put him under Samus for sure and Doc/Mario most likely. And I have no qualms with those who place him below Luigi and Yoshi.

Like, I'm not gonna argue with people too much wherever they place him in mid tier, but sometimes he's placed over falcon and icies and I just think it's crazy, and stems from Axe being such a ****ing beast at melee.

 

[pichuplayer]

Nah I was almost exclusively referring to Pichuplayer (although I'm sure he's not the only one), I just didn't use his name because I was pretty sure he'd react the way he did and oust himself. I'd stake the left nut of my firstborn son that he's not serious.

On topic though...uh...Link's better than Roy, Doc/Mario are underrated in the current meta, and pikachu is not the best mid-tier.

(No one was talking about pikachu lol, but his placement bugs me more than anyone else's.)

i am serious with my list you may think i'm not but i am

 

[pichuplayer]

Some other advantages Mario has over Doc:
1. Mario can triple jab a lot faster, which can be utilized similarly to the gentleman
2. He has a better chaingrab game (which helps in certain matchups like Sheik. Downthrow also combos into Fsmash against Sheik)
3. His cape is better for recovery than docs
4. He can wall jump, which helps his recovery and edgeguards a lot (wall jump fair is cool as ****)

Doc's advantages are still better IMO (Pills, killing potential), but I believe the two are closer than people think.



Yeah, this exactly. Axe is easily one of the most talented smashers in the world (much better than shroomed was with Doc), and he makes everyone look good (he makes y. link look AMAZING in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUarsV0Mk4). Pikachu has good qualities of course, but also some very crippling weaknesses...I'd put him under Samus for sure and Doc/Mario most likely. And I have no qualms with those who place him below Luigi and Yoshi.

Like, I'm not gonna argue with people too much wherever they place him in mid tier, but sometimes he's placed over falcon and icies and I just think it's crazy, and stems from Axe being such a ****ing beast at melee.

yeah i see what you are saying but i have one question for you what's your list if you don't want to post it thats fine i'm just curious

 

[eviljoeybonkers]

I edited my tier list, moving Ice Climbers from 9th to 7th, Samus from 10th to 9th, Dr. Mario from 7th to 10th, and Pichu and Bowser were switched, with Bowser now being the worst and Pichu being the 2nd worst.

 

[pichuplayer]

I edited my tier list, moving Ice Climbers from 9th to 7th, Samus from 10th to 9th, Dr. Mario from 7th to 10th, and Pichu and Bowser were switched, with Bowser now being the worst and Pichu being the 2nd worst.

ok

 

[Plunder]

1. A low projectile seems better because it forces them to go high if they don't want to deal with it. Certain characters can dash under pills.
2. I'm aware of the iron boot. Good for coverage but Mario's nair comes out faster. Different uses. Mario is used in combos and Doc's is used to cover tech options.
3. I have little knowledge on Doc/Mario bair (Or about the characters in general lel) so no comment.
4. Disjoints over kill potential. I'd pick disjoints imo. Yeah it might not kill but Mario AND Doc have good edge guarding tools so it really depends on the matchup as to who is better.
5. Tru
6. Mario Fair is godlike are you kidding me? Yeah you can meteor cancel it (It's a meteor right?) but you use it to tech chase. Fair puts them in a tech chase situation.
7. "A bit easier" shouldn't be a reason for a character to be better. Remember "Fox is too hard to control so he's not good. Sheik and marth are better"?
8. Both dash attacks are pretty bad anyways so this reason is jank lel.

I wasn't trying to refute all of your reasons. Just throwing in my stupid samus opinions at ya.

I'll be very honest with you, it's very hard to take your opinions with any kind of seriousness (and I'm not sure why I'm bothering to type all this).

Look at the hitbox, frame, and KB data. If you want to bother them call over Shroomed, KoopaTroopa, or even A Rookie they will shoot down like 75% of what you just said.

For instance Mario doesn't even have a hitbox on his entire leg during his dash attack, Doc does and it sends them at a better angle to actually get a follow up on.

Doc's Bair sends at an amazing shallow angle (a more shallow angle than Falcon's knee), Mario's sends them at an upward sakurai angle so they can just keep on coming right back.

And Pills vs Fireballs.....you've got to be kidding, most characters can SH over fireballs, Pills cover all SH approaches, and a FF Pill covers FH approaches and platforms.

Mario's Fair god like? 18 frames that any top level player can easily punish? Doc's is god-like because it kills, it's an ender, a KO move and it has set ups and combos into it.

 

[pichuplayer]

I'll be very honest with you, it's very hard to take your opinions with any kind of seriousness (and I'm not sure why I'm bothering to type all this).

Look at the hitbox, frame, and KB data. If you want to bother them call over Shroomed, KoopaTroopa, or even A Rookie they will shoot down like 75% of what you just said.

For instance Mario doesn't even have a hitbox on his entire leg during his dash attack, Doc does and it sends them at a better angle to actually get a follow up on.

Doc's Bair sends at an amazing shallow angle (a more shallow angle than Falcon's knee), Mario's sends them at an upward sakurai angle so they can just keeping on coming right back.

And Pills vs Fireballs.....you've got to be kidding, most characters can SH over fireballs, Pills cover all SH approaches, and a FF Pill covers FH approaches and platforms.

Mario's Fair god like? 18 frames that any top level player can easily punish? Doc's is god-like because it kills, it's an ender, a KO move and it has set ups and combos into it.

agreed!

 

[Facading]

Top
Falco
Fox
Marth
Puff
Sheik
Peach

A Tier
Falcon
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Samus
Luigi
Yoshi

B Tier
Doc
Mario
Ganon
Young link
Link
Dk

C Tier
G&w
Pichu
Mewtwo

G Tier
Zelda
Kirby
Ness
Roy
Bowser

Willing to elaborate if needed

Edit: going back and forth with my garbage tiers so I made a couple swaps

 

[pichuplayer]

Top
Falco
Fox
Marth
Puff
Sheik
Peach

A Tier
Falcon
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Samus
Luigi
Yoshi

B Tier
Doc
Mario
Ganon
Young link
Link
Dk

C Tier
G&w
Pichu
Mewtwo

G Tier
Ness
Kirby
Zelda
Roy
Bowser

Willing to elaborate if needed

not saying i disagree but elaborate on why link Doc Falco and Mewtwo are where they are imo Doc should be higher Link lower than DK why is falco #1 and M2 lower

 

[Facading]

not saying i disagree but elaborate on why link Doc Falco and Mewtwo are where they are imo Doc should be higher Link lower than DK why is falco #1 and M2 lower

IMO Fox has slightly better matchups against top tiers but loses to Falco. The zoning he can do with his lasers makes it hard for anyone to get a good approach espescially puff.

On the current tier list I think Doc is very overrated. His range is awful(stubby arms and slow pills makes approaching hard) and has poor matchups against almost everyone above him. Not saying this is a huge factor but as the years go on he is being seen less and less at top level play. Shroomed was his last hope.

DK loses to Link so theres one, but also he needs a grab to get anything started. He has awful combo weight and without his fair/bair he's useless. Saus has helped shed new light on link this year and Im interested to see how much he can push him.

Mewtwo has a good edge guard tools and has some surprisingly good throws. I don't think he's good, I just think he has more tools than the characters below him

 

[pichuplayer]

IMO Fox has slightly better matchups against top tiers but loses to Falco. The zoning he can do with his lasers makes it hard for anyone to get a good approach espescially puff.

On the current tier list I think Doc is very overrated. His range is awful(stubby arms and slow pills makes approaching hard) and has poor matchups against almost everyone above him. Not saying this is a huge factor but as the years go on he is being seen less and less at top level play. Shroomed was his last hope.

DK loses to Link so theres one, but also he needs a grab to get anything started. He has awful combo weight and without his fair/bair he's useless. Saus has helped shed new light on link this year and Im interested to see how much he can push him.

Mewtwo has a good edge guard tools and has some surprisingly good throws. I don't think he's good, I just think he has more tools than the characters below him

thank you

 

[lolazerz]

Ayy lmao

Roy is fun but what is depressing is that theoretically he can get 0-deathed by most of the top tiers. He is as easy to combo as the spacies but doesn't have a 1 frame combo breaker or any other fast moves to get out of combos, plus his jump isn't nearly as fast or high as the spacies for escaping.

So, if you are playing against anyone remotely good at any of the spacies MUs they are going to already have a feel for comboing that weight and fall speed, and off 1 hit they are going to be able to kill you if they are a med-high level player.

In theory he could be 0-deathed. But in better news he could also potentially do the same to spacies. Given the player DIs a certain way



Also to @ pichuplayer this post

ok

Was absolutely useless, just try to actually have content in a post rather than making a blank post. Just makes you look better and seem smarter
ayy llamo

 

[pichuplayer]

In theory he could be 0-deathed. But in better news he could also potentially do the same to spacies. Given the player DIs a certain way



Also to @ pichuplayer this post

Was absolutely useless, just try to actually have content in a post rather than making a blank post. Just makes you look better and seem smarter
ayy llamo

dude i just said because i wanted to no real reason btw you seem to know a lot about this game so tell me whose better in doubles Doc or Mario

 

[vexoskeleton]

i am serious with my list you may think i'm not but i am

dude that's so funny. I was dying reading your list the first time through, reading it again now that i know you're serious is kinda sad but mildly interesting. If you like melee I'd recommend looking into some of these characters and seeing them being played at a high caliber or reading about them to see why they usually aren't placed as you have placed them.

 

[Plunder]

dude i just said because i wanted to no real reason btw you seem to know a lot about this game so tell me whose better in doubles Doc or Mario

It's probably even in teams....

but I personally would go Mario since his moves favor assisting combos much better (his up tilt and up air), also he can go much deeper than Doc to help a teammate recover off stage.

 

[lolazerz]

dude i just said because i wanted to no real reason btw you seem to know a lot about this game so tell me whose better in doubles Doc or Mario

I get posting just for emotional reasons but still try to at least have some kind of content in a post. As for doc and Mario in teams ... Probably what @ Plunder said. I honestly know more about smash 4 than I do maylay, but I play them both competitively at the same time so things get mixed up sometimes.

 

[keymanb]

I guess I'll just re post my tier.

Take most of this stuff with a grain of salt as I am not the finest tier maker.

My votes

S

1. To compromise my beliefs in falco I think this character is above fox because fox has 1 losing matchup and that's to falco, overall fox has slightly better MU

2. Really obvious

3. This character should easily have zero disadvantages in the MU, if the player properly understands his opponents such as a Falco or Fox, he could juggle, take advantage of their linear recovery, and even just plain beat the crap out of them.

4. Slightly overrated, still extremely viable.

5. Jiggly is fine where she is

6. Gotta love falcon.

7.

8./ Samus is a strong character, who has the ability to use ranged combat and close quarters combat, and she excels at both. She is oddly floaty and is easy to Ariel combo, and she has a poor SHFFL. However I think she earns this spot above Ice climbers and Doc, because of her ability to have decent match ups with the other S tier characters. Ice climbers have the infinite chain grab. Nothing special else about them.

A

9. Great

10. His meta has increased, and has been getting higher in tournament placings.

11. Nerfed from 64, always decent in every game.

12. Good, nothing exceptional.

13. aMSa

14.

B

15.

16. Interesting character, interesting placement.

17. Poor KO ability, decent SHFFL, More viable than his current placement.

18. Better than link?

19.

20. Funny character

21. Get him out of F

22. I love this character, fun and should be higher, but this character, sucks.
F

23.Dysfunctional.

24. Has the worst matchups in the melee cast.

25.

 

[lolazerz]

I guess I'll just re post my tier.

Take most of this stuff with a grain of salt as I am not the finest tier maker.

My votes

S

1. To compromise my beliefs in falco I think this character is above fox because fox has 1 losing matchup and that's to falco, overall fox has slightly better MU

2. Really obvious

3. This character should easily have zero disadvantages in the MU, if the player properly understands his opponents such as a Falco or Fox, he could juggle, take advantage of their linear recovery, and even just plain beat the crap out of them.

4. Slightly overrated, still extremely viable.

5. Jiggly is fine where she is

6. Gotta love falcon.

7.

8./ Samus is a strong character, who has the ability to use ranged combat and close quarters combat, and she excels at both. She is oddly floaty and is easy to Ariel combo, and she has a poor SHFFL. However I think she earns this spot above Ice climbers and Doc, because of her ability to have decent match ups with the other S tier characters. Ice climbers have the infinite chain grab. Nothing special else about them.

A

9. Great

10. His meta has increased, and has been getting higher in tournament placings.

11. Nerfed from 64, always decent in every game.

12. Good, nothing exceptional.

13. aMSa

14.

B

15.

16. Interesting character, interesting placement.

17. Poor KO ability, decent SHFFL, More viable than his current placement.

18. Better than link?

19.

20. Funny character

21. Get him out of F

22. I love this character, fun and should be higher, but this character, sucks.
F

23.Dysfunctional.

24. Has the worst matchups in the melee cast.

25.

Can you please elaborate on why the Links are so far apart

 

[Mervis]

I'll be very honest with you, it's very hard to take your opinions with any kind of seriousness (and I'm not sure why I'm bothering to type all this).

Look at the hitbox, frame, and KB data. If you want to bother them call over Shroomed, KoopaTroopa, or even A Rookie they will shoot down like 75% of what you just said.

For instance Mario doesn't even have a hitbox on his entire leg during his dash attack, Doc does and it sends them at a better angle to actually get a follow up on.

Doc's Bair sends at an amazing shallow angle (a more shallow angle than Falcon's knee), Mario's sends them at an upward sakurai angle so they can just keep on coming right back.

And Pills vs Fireballs.....you've got to be kidding, most characters can SH over fireballs, Pills cover all SH approaches, and a FF Pill covers FH approaches and platforms.

Mario's Fair god like? 18 frames that any top level player can easily punish? Doc's is god-like because it kills, it's an ender, a KO move and it has set ups and combos into it.

You seriously pulled out the dash attack frame data again? Lol

 

[lolazerz]

You seriously pulled out the dash attack frame data again? Lol

You wanna hear a thing or two about frame-data do yah laddie'. Ever heard a' Roy's dash attack sonny. People have died because of that Dash attack. It caused the great (roy mains) depression of the 1920s'