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[2 different tournies] Nike vs Trela, Espy, Kprime, and more,

Nike.

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
5,823
Location
SA-Town, Texas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXrS_QOHNU0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHmOTtV0xmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHW3UyzW9Ww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOAFrFi-AQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP7U85pgDrc

Everything above is either a tourney set or a money match, but for the most part I can already see what I'm doing right/wrong in all of them.

Except this last one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW4haAInWNo

Trela's basically become #1 in TX. We did a big money match this past weekend. Ignoring the extremely dum spike-happy-suicides, I'd love to get a critique from anyone.

The one big thing that I noticed is that if I land a tipper nair on Lucario's shield, Trela will shield drop -> fsmash. This beats dtilt and fsmash because Lucario does a stutter-step in the animation, pulling him out of range. I fell for this 58489430 times. What do you think I should do differently to punish the fsmash easier (BESIDES SHIELDBREAKER)?

EDIT: Oh, and lylat counterpick and game4 ending were both terribad, I know lol.
 

Zano

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
4,327
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
NNID
DuelistZano
Against Trela, you seem to do fine for the first stock and a half, but whenever he got a big enough lead, you just seemed to fall apart and throw out random upsmashes and uairs for no reason, lol. I don't think I saw you use dsmash once during any of the games, but idk if there were any situations where that woulda been helpful? It just seems like you need to keep your focus during the second half the of the matches and you'd be fine.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Okay before I say anything else, I want to say how glad I am that your recovery and getting back onto the stage from the ledge is so much better than where it was when I first started yelling at you. You're more patient, you're saving your jumps, you're making better decisions, and you're getting off the ledge in different ways.

I'm upset he didn't die at 1:26

Fsmash from nair will work if you stutterstep forward. However, that is more of a read for his fsmash. If he stays shielding you miss tipper fsmash on shield and lose all safety you might have had from shield push.

Dtilt from nair isn't that great vs Lucario. Dtilt from non-tippered fair is still good though.
The problem is nair is so long that if it's spaced, even without the backing up from his fsmash, dtilt shouldn't hit people. If you hit with non-tippered nair that's something different. But, why would you be hitting with non-tipper nair?

If you think the fsmash is coming at you OoS from your nair, walk forward a little, shield, and then either DB OoS or grab him. If he charges the fsmash more, then DS during his charge time to get 1.5x knockback. If he stays shielding (decides not to fsmash), just grab him.

Another option, although this is dependent on him fsmashing, is to just dash forward a little bit and DB. Of course, if he decides not to fsmash then you're DBing into a shield, poorly spaced at that, which is never good.

More ftilt in general.

Watch your full hops. They get you fair'd and AS'd a fair bit.

If you nair and he rolls behind you, make sure you start drifting forward so you don't continue back into your opponent.

Good lord, use dsmash sometime, it's a great move.

If Lucario fsmashes and you manage to be in the air above it, don't FF fair. If you do it too early you get hit by fsmash and if you're even a little bit too late you get PS'd (see: 0:30). Instead, you want to just nair. Fair starts above your head and arcs down which is why you need to FF it to hit someone on the ground safely. Nair's angle starts low so it will automatically hit a character at an angle of depression compared to you with no waiting (again, see: 0:30). Keep in mind that Marth sticks his hand out farther for this so you don't want to FF here. If you do you get hit (see: the second fsmash at 5:31/5:32. You were out of nair range for the first one).

Your fsmashes when he's at kill %s are pretty telegraphed. You know a Marth is going to fsmash when he slowly starts walking away from another character. Instead, try walking away then dashing back for a grab. It works almost every time.

While you've gotten extremely better on the ledge, you're still not making full use out of your options. Ledge jump-> DB1 to control your height->aerial/AD/counter/DB/double jump is a way to give you a lot of options from one action. Also, ledge jump backwards (into possibly DJ if necessary) into PC when the platform is offstage and behind you gives you a way out of a terrible situation. As long as you watch Lucario's Aura Sphere (which you just counter) you should be safe in getting to the platform. Keep in mind, Lucario is depressingly slow (see: 4:25)

Also, my favorite ledge trick, jump from the ledge into someone (DJ if necessary) and don't use and aerial or AD. Instead mash jump so you footstool over them. This works especially well on SV since you can wait until the platform is in a decent position for you to land safely.

Learn when to recognize when the 4th hit of DB will miss. Or just do DB the correct way and it won't matter.

You seemed to have gotten flustered a little bit after you got hit by fsmash at 5:31/2 until you died. Your recovery wasn't anything like what is has been. Just relax and focus on getting to the ledge (that uair from your jump you did when you could have just DS'd to safety jumps out). Remember, your #1 priority is getting to the ledge. Damage to your opponent is nice if you can get it, but don't worry about that. Keep your aerials unused unless it's necessary/your opponent lets you hit them for free.

I'm upset that utilt didn't kill @ 6:41

Game 2 you just seemed flustered overall. Too many fsmashes, bad recoveries/ledge options. You weren't landing that well, ran into attacks a lot, etc.

You land a lot with fair behind your opponent when uair would hit them. Fix that.

That dtilt at 8:53 was beautiful.

madmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmadmad @ your SD spikes. Especially mad that the second one was brilliantly done except the death part what you could have killed him with FFbair

15:28 Even if that had connected it would have been the weak hit. Back side of nair or bair were far better/safer/more likely options.

15:40 DSMASH WOULD HAVE WON!!! Also DS

15:47 Again, he was guaranteed dead almost any option he took from the ledge. Dsmash/DS instead of grab.

15:53 Noooo, ledge drop, jump, nair through him so the backside hits him back out//kills

I need to talk to you about nair follow-ups sometime this week.
 

Nike.

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
5,823
Location
SA-Town, Texas
15:53 was supposed to be an aerial from the ledge, I just choked and hit up first before letting go of the ledge :(

I'll bring up a couple others things soon, but thank you <3
 

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
15:53 was supposed to be an aerial from the ledge, I just choked and hit up first before letting go of the ledge :(

I'll bring up a couple others things soon, but thank you <3
Nike uses tap jump to actually jump? No way...
 

ScareMl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Northern California
i believe most marth mains play with tap jump on. easier to buffer aerials and you ds faster. that makes a huge difference in the long run. unless you're ramin, play marth with tap jump on.
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
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ShayaJP
It really comes down to preference.
Most of the older marth mains play with tap jump on, while a large sect of newer ones have openly stated they're batting for the other side.
 

Reizilla

The Old Lapras and the Sea
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
13,676
You guys are missing the point. From what Nike said, it sounded like he was using up to actually jump, not just having tap jump on.

And if you can't up tilt with tap jump on, you probably have bigger problems to worry about.
 
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