1337 Zamus TrickZ - Updated

[Ken34]

The up B also spikes if you hit with only the very beginning too, moving any direction I believe.

yea, i pulled this off a few times in matches already, sending my opponent off the stage, but its not a real spike, it just sends them downwards so its easy for them to recover.

 

[magnomanX]

hey Fastest, when EXACTLY does Zamus have invincible frames during her DownB???

Look at this video 2:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=846jp4KPQlA&feature=related

cuz Zamus definitely was NOT invincible.

 

[T0MMY]

They must not learn quickly then.

You wouldn't know that, considering I didn't tell you how much they've improved. Which is quite considerable seeing as the game hasn't even been released in america yet.

Dsmash will give you practically anything for free. It's stupid to factor all permutations of dsmash->whatever because dsmash->dsmash->X is the best thing you'd really ever want to do.

Stupid, or complete?
You might think it's the best thing to do, because that's the only thing you're doing. Personally, I like to jab at them, d-tilt and try to get a neutral or upwards DI out of them and go for an U-air or F-air and see where it goes from there.

Combos are guaranteed.
Strings are not. There's a big difference - and nothing too technical about the distinction.

Then it's a difference of terminology. A sequence of hits can be considered a combo, and if it is avoidable you can say true combo to differentiate it.
Suppose there is a crowd watching two skilled players, one of the players pulls off a string of hits into a finishing attack that KO's his opponent. The crowd cheers and they speak of the awesome "combo" he pulled off. Regardless if his opponent could get out of it (and most likely he could have) it was established by all that was one crazy good combo. I'm probably not going to stand there and lecture them the details of a sequence of hits that could have been Smash DI'd to escape and therefore nullifying it as an actual combo.
And just to show it doesn't matter if the crowd is a bunch of noobs, when I was traveling around CA and talking to established players their interest in a combo and a string was very minimal and didn't care, as I'm very much agreeing with.

If you go to any other fighting game message board- they only list combos, natural combos, and combos based on extenuating circumstances. Strings have more to do with mindgames and setups.

Not this message board I'm on now.
Which brings me to the point there are no such things as combos then. Because they're all escapable in every game in some way.

You guys should show fastest more respect. He's actually roommates with a very well-respected smasher.

I agree with Cobra on this one. You don't just give respect out for a reason like that. I've been a roommate with someone who never played Smash. Does that mean I shouldn't be respected
Regardless, I think a minimal amount of respect should be given to everyone, politeness just works better in the end.

 

[artifice]

kamaji 1st. icraq got 2nd. deva got 3rd. shane 4th. oregon sucks/sucked at brawl. these guys pretty good.

;D

sorry tommy couldn't help it. Eggz cleaned up in organ, but came to eastern Washington, brought silent wolf, and did not do so good ;x

you guys should come over for our next monthly. are you playing zamus?

 

[daemonk]

The jabs are really good. It comes out fast enough to stop a lot of attacks.

After you forward dash, if the opponent is blocking, you can jab to get them away from you and make it harder for them to shield grab. If the opponent is not blocking just do an up tilt.

 

[Ken34]

The jabs are really good. It comes out fast enough to stop a lot of attacks.

After you forward dash, if the opponent is blocking, you can jab to get them away from you and make it harder for them to shield grab. If the opponent is not blocking just do an up tilt.

her jab combo is horrible, you can get hit or grabbed out of the middle of it, jab to grab is so good though, cause her first jab is really fast and does stuff alot of things.

 

[.kR0]

Never do the full jab. The only time is when the opponent is in the air and they have no moves that comes out faster than the last hit (even then there are better options)

jab->ftilt/dtilt->jab is an amazing ground pressure tool.
jab->grab works well too until the opponent figures this out and just grounddodge. After then, never use it. The punishment for a missed grab with Zamus is huge.

 

[Silent Wolf]

;D

sorry tommy couldn't help it. Eggz cleaned up in organ, but came to eastern Washington, brought silent wolf, and did not do so good ;x

you guys should come over for our next monthly. are you playing zamus?

Shane only got 2nd in oregon because he played with smash balls on.
Coulda swore i got 2nd at the eastern WA smash ball on tourney =P
not that that means anything lmao

we dont know how good oregon is, they had the game for a day or 2 before we got there.

 

[mikeHAZE]

nice johnz ^

 

[mikeHAZE]

that was shane.

 

[Fastest]

Then it's a difference of terminology. A sequence of hits can be considered a combo, and if it is avoidable you can say true combo to differentiate it.
Suppose there is a crowd watching two skilled players, one of the players pulls off a string of hits into a finishing attack that KO's his opponent. The crowd cheers and they speak of the awesome "combo" he pulled off. Regardless if his opponent could get out of it (and most likely he could have) it was established by all that was one crazy good combo. I'm probably not going to stand there and lecture them the details of a sequence of hits that could have been Smash DI'd to escape and therefore nullifying it as an actual combo.
And just to show it doesn't matter if the crowd is a bunch of noobs, when I was traveling around CA and talking to established players their interest in a combo and a string was very minimal and didn't care, as I'm very much agreeing with.

Yes, exactly, it's a difference in terminology. Why argue if you understand the difference between the two words? In a fighting game, the difference between a guaranteed sequence of moves and a potential sequence of moves is a big deal.

It's not a combo, and the crowd would be dumb to think so. In fact, because it's Brawl, they should be laughing: "LOL he could have gotten out of that entire sequence!"

Which brings me to the point there are no such things as combos then. Because they're all escapable in every game in some way.

It's obvious your experience with competitive fighting games doesn't extend past melee. There's plenty of inescapable sequences of moves (combos!) in other games. Even melee has guaranteed moves.

I agree with Cobra on this one. You don't just give respect out for a reason like that. I've been a roommate with someone who never played Smash. Does that mean I shouldn't be respected
Regardless, I think a minimal amount of respect should be given to everyone, politeness just works better in the end.

Who are you, really? Respect? Hah! It's long past time smashboards kept tolerating the 13 year old pikachu-loving n00bs who have no business playing a game competitively. Well, aside from padding my wallet when I win their tournament entry fee.

If someone can't figure out a simple technique then they should quit the game. He lost my respect the second he asked me to clarify something that should be imminently obvious.

 

[magnomanX]

Condescending much???

Fastest I would appreciated it if you addressed my inquiry regarding the invincibility frames of ZSS's Down B. Vid demonstration perhaps?

Ok nevermind, Fastest. I found it myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQRyDQ--jQk

at 1:00 it seems that she should have been hit. So the invincible frames are only active during the very beginning of the Down B.

edit: nevermind, it seems that Ike misses ZSS by an inch.

 

[MprisM]

The thing I like about ZSS is shes hot at fast.

The thing I dont like about ZSS is that shes a garbage character.

No priority, cant attack during the ascent of an aerial, extremely light character, very few of her attacks do any damage, she can get gimped during recovery, her jab combo is trash, her dtilt is trash if someone shields it and if they dont, congrats you just launched them into - NOTHING, because they air dodged, paralyzer is worthless when used for pressure, in fact everything she has fails to cause any pressure, she cant combo because Sakurai included a ******** air dodge.

So what it comes down to is single weak low priority moves. Oh and if your opponent knows how to DI, goodluck killing someone.

Garbage. End frustrated rant.

 

[magnomanX]

The thing I like about ZSS is shes hot at fast.

The thing I dont like about ZSS is that shes a garbage character.

No priority, cant attack during the ascent of an aerial, extremely light character, very few of her attacks do any damage, she can get gimped during recovery, her jab combo is trash, her dtilt is trash if someone shields it and if they dont, congrats you just launched them into - NOTHING, because they air dodged, paralyzer is worthless when used for pressure, in fact everything she has fails to cause any pressure, she cant combo because Sakurai included a ******** air dodge.

So what it comes down to is single weak low priority moves. Oh and if your opponent knows how to DI, goodluck killing someone.

Garbage. End frustrated rant.

I disagree with your assessment. I think that ZSS is a very capable character with advantages that stand out over those of many other characters. Particularly, I like how she is EXTREMELY mobile and therefore, hard to hit if played correctly. Even more, many of her moves have such good range that she can attack without fear of retaliation. And if you are smart, you can KO someone as early as 130%. You can go ahead and think she is "garbage", but once this game comes out I will happily prove you wrong.

 

[Ken34]

I disagree with your assessment. I think that ZSS is a very capable character with advantages that stand out over those of many other characters. Particularly, I like how she is EXTREMELY mobile and therefore, hard to hit if played correctly. Even more, many of her moves have such good range that she can attack without fear of retaliation. And if you are smart, you can KO someone as early as 130%. You can go ahead and think she is "garbage", but once this game comes out I will happily prove you wrong.

u can KO earlier than that, ive KO'ed at 90% before. and i agree, she is fast and has such good range, u can space safe attacks and not be worried about getting hit.

 

[.kR0]

if they dont, congrats you just launched them into .

a dashcancel upsmash.

 

[Pyr0]

Zamus cannot hit a standing target via short hop while rising.

I did some toying around with Controller mapping (Marth) I changed the jump to Z button (GCube controller) to do Double Fairs extremely close to the ground.

Perhaps a similar remap would help in that situation (the one quoted).

 

[k4polo]

Hmm she will be my main so I post some stuff as well. First I haven't played the game yet.

For example, One of ZSS's major weakness is to opponent's edgeguarding since the whip itself has to grab the edge. An expert will just knock her away and hogged the edge on invincibility frames of the whip move and ZSS falls to her death.

To counter that weakness, You could try the Toadstool jump once people know how to do it, you could try firing the gun in air at the edge(at the opponent) and then grabbing the edge there after.

If they spike you downward, well you can't use the gun obviously. I think you are screwed as ZSS. But you can try jumping, down b to wall jump if that can be done.OR you can try jump down b and attack edge yourself then whip recovery giving the correct distance.

Also the Bair can KO at like 90 -100% I believe.

Experts are gonna try to find you major weakness of a character and exploit it. People need to find a definite counter for that weakness.

I've heard that edge hogging is one of her major weaknesses. So if I played against her I will edgehog her alot.(This is where I wish they implement that grab the feet rumor for edgehoggers ). Finding a way to counter the constant edgehogging is very critical for ZSS players as her tether recovery seems to be easily edgehogged.

I like to take the opponent's perspective of things.

 

[magnomanX]

Ok here is DEFINITIVE proof that not only does Down B have invincible frames, it has MAD invincible frames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik1seiZlbwE

watch @ 2:25. she is invincible for AT LEAST have of the movement. This is gonna be huge for her game.

 

[MprisM]

I was ranting from a slur of losses, I really don't think shes garbage, but those are a few of the things that make it suck to play as her.


Edit - Dash canceled Usmash. You're a genius. =)

 

[The Great Leon]

Pyr0: Hmm, very interesting idea. I'll have to try that. But her short hop is really high

K4polo: Getting edgehogged isn't as big of a problem as you'd think with Zamus. 2 jumps, a wall jump, Down B that can wall jump, and being able to Side/Up B multiple times means that you'll only get hogged when you get knocked so far that you barely survive (thanks to awesome DI) and you screw up. Rolling from the ledge doesn't hog it anymore, so its all about dropping down at the right time. Side B can grab it from far away, or stage spike them if their invuln runs out; and Up B can grab from really far down and spike if they hold on too long. Ivysaur and Pikmin only get one tether per jumps so its worse for them. You have a lot of different options open to you.

 

[.kR0]

Its true that the airdodge in Brawl is ********. Its way too good and you have no lag afterwards+even when you land.

But after Dthrow/dtilt/uptilt Zsamus has three solid options
1. upair
2. upB
3. upsmash

1,2 can be easily dodged from airdodging, so if you see that your opponent has a habit of airdodging right after being launched, just delay the dash-cancel upsmash and have a fun time juggling him. If they don't, let him eat an upair.

EDIT: her priority is **** though, and this will probably be her ultimate downfall.

 

[k4polo]

I see either way is still good to protect against edgehogging in either case. I am just saying the word on the street so called as most think she gets edgehogged easily.

Priority. Don't know what you can do about that. I can even see that from vids that her priority isn't the best.Maybe you can use her speed.

and yes poor pikmin . I see him get knocked far and the poor guy can't make.

 

[NESJake]

You forgot to mention that her upAir is awesome. very good for KO's. Her back air has good KO potential too. FAir is decent. I don't like her down air too much. Guess it can throw your opponent off guard.

 

[.kR0]

Her bair and forwardB is the most solid K.O moves she has.
Then upair at high percentage.

 

[Hark21Ball]

Nice post, Will have to take all this into account and figure out how to play as her.

 

[Ken34]

Her bair and forwardB is the most solid K.O moves she has.
Then upair at high percentage.

fair as an edge guard off stage kills pretty well, also the kick after her downb kills early as well depending where u hit them with it.(like in thier back while they are standing on stage)

 

[.kR0]

Yeah, they're good when the situation comes.
But the moves you'll be using the most to get your kills would be bair and Forward B. You don't set up your entire game spacing so you can land a downB. You space well so you can land her bair.

 

[Ken34]

Yeah, they're good when the situation comes.
But the moves you'll be using the most to get your kills would be bair and Forward B. You don't set up your entire game spacing so you can land a downB. You space well so you can land her bair.

yea, i dont use her bair enough, its mostly forward b for me. but all ive been facing are marths and donkey kongs, so i think you can understand why i never try to land bairs unless im certain i will land them, cause tippers/anything from DK hurts her in this game really bad, lol.

 

[.kR0]

lol ya.

Forward B is that good.

I fight Toon and Capt. Falcons the most so sometimes I get punished mad hard if I whiff a Forward B

 

[Repryx]

I shall subscribe to this thread

 

[bLaiS]

her dair is good for mixing things up and it hits 2 times, initial hit then sort of a landing 2nd hit. the lag however on landing is horrible. upsmash should be used early it cant KO worth ****. i find mixing between dash attack and dash fowardB is really useful, you can really put people on the defensive. her fsmash is pretty terrible fowardb is just better in every circumstance. yes the fmsash does hit behind but for like 7 dmg and the lag on it really makes it not worth using. also using fowardB in the air is really helpful. they expect fair and if you time it right you can give them a nice fowardB to the dome.

 

[BlackYoshi7]

You guys should show fastest more respect. He's actually roommates with a very well-respected smasher.

He could be roommates with the Queen of ****ing England; it doesn't change the fact he was being a douchebag to that one guy.

 

[hmbtnguy]

Thanks for the guide! I've been experimenting with ZSS so this helped a lot.

 

[James Sparrow]

He could be roommates with the Queen of ****ing England; it doesn't change the fact he was being a douchebag to that one guy.

Fastest isn't a douchebag to people. He's just better and smarter than everyone, and lets them know it. This is something I've learned about him over the years.

 

[Repryx]

Question does anyone use Zamus' Dair? I use it well but I can never see anyone use it effectivly in vids....ever.

For those who shy away from it, realize its a two hit aerial. but at the same time I want to know if there is another practical use for it... besides the satisfaction of driving your opponent into the ground(gosh it feels good)


-Ciao

 

[DeliciousCake]

I try and stay away from the dair. If you miss you're open for major punishment, and I've suicided off the edge so many times it's not even funny.

 

[Repryx]

^^Try using it when your opponent is out of your fair range but still near you....If you are both in Midair you will reach the ground before them of DRIVE THEM INTO THE GROUND! I use it as a regroup and damage distribution...and why do it near the edge?

-Ciao

 

[0RLY]

For offstage battles, like when your foe is recovering, what attack options do you have?

So far, there's fair, bdown, and bair.

Does nair have better kb than fair/bair? Does B over have too much lag to be used offstage?

 

[Repryx]

I havent used the nair better than my fair or bair and no over B has little lag


down B works fine in an aerial fight as well bcause of the spike yet try not to use it as a spike sub-stage because it becomes a recovery method

-Ciao