1.10 Patch - Coming 7.31

[Gunla]

Preparing for the inevitable, there's no doubt we'll need to make a thread for this. For the time being, we're only aware of new content, but it certainly seems like there may be a balance patch in store. As a result, I've made this thread for Greninja, specifically. The Competitive Board will likely have a general patch discussion.

Changes to Greninja:

Spoiler: Confirmed

Buffs
Water Shuriken

• Startup decreased

Nerfs

Neutral Changes
DThrow:

• Damage Reduction 6 -> 5
• Endlag reduced (works with footstools and other setups now)

Bugfix

• Water Shuriken will properly bounce in the air now at all times.

Spoiler: Potential Placebo

Buffs

Nerfs

Neutral Changes

At the very least, I will be updating this with placebos as well if I find anything major that isn't confirmed. Any other threads and topics that are made about the patch will be locked, so keep patch discussion limited to here.

If there are no changes, then there's no changes. It may happen, but we should be prepared.

Godspeed, my ninja frog brethren.

Thanks to @ Camalange for reminding me about this.

 

[Camalange]

I will update this post to keep a catalogue of all the "better nerf greninja" posts.

Spoiler

not really though

 

[Makani]

No nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf no nerf please...

 

[FullMoon]

I'm sure we won't get any nerfs. Greninja is hardly a big player both competitively or in For Glory. We already got buffed once so I think the worst that can happen to us is no buffs and Shadow Sneak Hitstun Cancel removed because it's a bug.

Otherwise, I'll do my usual praying for a normal standing grab routine.

 

[TheRealDonquavious]

Just one good out of shield option, please...

 

[iVoltage]

Whats that a new patch? Better nerf Greninja!







daddy sakurai pls no

 

[Makani]

We already got buffed once so I think the worst that can happen to us is no buffs and Shadow Sneak Hitstun Cancel removed because it's a bug.

Is it really though? You would think if it was it would've been phased out in the last couple of patches but maybe it's just intentional. One can hope anyway... I've been using it alot lately with immense success.

 

[FullMoon]

Is it really though? You would think if it was it would've been phased out in the last couple of patches but maybe it's just intentional. One can hope anyway... I've been using it alot lately with immense success.

Greninja is a rare sight so I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai just hasn't noticed it yet.

It being intentional would be really weird too. I mean, if that was the case they could make a tip about it or something.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Update is out. Time to get to work.

 

[FullMoon]

Oh my god

Shurikens are firing so fast right now. Just see it by yourself.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Our hitstun cancel shadow sneak is gone, just like FullMoon predicted.

 

[Schiffe]

What's up, going to check out the 1.10 patch tommorow inside out see if we can get another full confirmed change log.

I wonder if Thinkaman is around so I can give him the data unpacked..

 

[FullMoon]

Can somebody confirmed shurikens have less start-up? I think I got hit by placebo lol

Our hitstun cancel shadow sneak is gone, just like FullMoon predicted.

It's still in. I just tested it against Sheik's rapid jab and MK's tornado.

 

[Jaguar360]

My patch is still downloading...

Oh my god

Shurikens are firing so fast right now. Just see it by yourself.

O_O Please be real...!

Our hitstun cancel shadow sneak is gone, just like FullMoon predicted.

Welp. Hope this isn't true, but it wouldn't be too bad if it was.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

It's still in. I just tested it against Sheik's rapid jab and MK's tornado.

Huh, really? I was testing it out against ZSS's stun gun. We were able to SS out of that before this.

edit
whoops, just confirmed yeah.

Well we can't get out of the stun gun anymore, if that counts for anything. lol

 

[Makani]

It's still in. I just tested it against Sheik's rapid jab and MK's tornado.

See? Is it really unintentional? Who knows... There are things that are intentional but aren't listed in tooltips as far as I know, like Mac's UpB being able to break out of hitstun due to being frame 1 invincible, same with Marth/Lucina's UpB as well right?

As for shurikens being faster I KIND OF feel it, but I can't tell if it's placebo or not.

 

[Gunla]

I have two 3DS and will test Greninja's changes, among other characters.

ZSS's Stun Gun thing is likely a change to her.

 

[Space thing]

Can somebody confirmed shurikens have less start-up? I think I got hit by placebo lol



It's still in. I just tested it against Sheik's rapid jab and MK's tornado.

Doing a side by side with a 1.08 3DS and a 1.10 Wii U, I'm noticing a slight difference especially when I set them both to 1/4 speed. Like, I'm even trying to press the B button on the 3DS first and it's still coming out earlier on the wii U. Still not 100% confirmation, but it's looking like this might be real.

 

[Jaguar360]

Shurikens definitely seem a bit faster to me. More spammable.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Joining the confirm train about uncharged shuriken having less start up. Compared side by side my 3DS with the old patch and Wii U with the new one. Definitely not the best way to compare, but it's definitely faster but a few frames.

Also confirming that dthrow got NERFED by 1% using the same methods.

 

[purifiedJAMZ]

Water Shuriken startup is noticeably faster. When you use it the air though, Greninja does a tiny hop in the air when thrown. This was in the previous patches but now it seems more consistent.

 

[Space thing]

Water Shuriken startup is noticeably faster. When you use it the air though, Greninja does a tiny hop in the air when thrown. This was in the previous patches but now it seems more consistent.

Actually, yes, this appears to be the case. Previously, Greninja would not hop in the air if he used Shuriken in the air right before landing last time he was in the air (including if bounced just above the ground). Now it appears to always bounce in the air. Sounds like a minor bug fix.

 

[Jaguar360]

Joining the confirm train about uncharged shuriken having less start up. Compared side by side my 3DS with the old patch and Wii U with the new one. Definitely not the best way to compare, but it's definitely faster but a few frames.

Also confirming that dthrow got NERFED by 1% using the same methods.

On the other hand, the endlag on d-throw seems to be a bit less. Not sure if placebo. Can't find any combos for it.

 

[RidleyDX]

This is probably been around in the last patch, when you hit a wall with hydro pump you just bounce a little fall to your death. Well iam purposefully hitting the wall and I bounce high enough snap to the ledge, is this a change? Tested on FD battlefield.

eh probably a placebo.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

On the other hand, the endlag on d-throw seems to be a bit less. Not sure if placebo. Can't find any combos for it.

WE CAN COMBO IT INTO FOOTSTOOL STUFF
https://twitter.com/pkawabi/status/626943620482859008
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[purifiedJAMZ]

WE CAN COMBO IT INTO FOOTSTOOL STUFF
https://twitter.com/pkawabi/status/626943620482859008
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I've tested it and now it can true combo to f-fair at higher percents for a KO. Bless Sakurai

 

[TheRealDonquavious]

I'm not at home right now, SOMEBODY HELP ME
I NEED TO KNOW

 

[hewhoamareismyself]

I've tested it and now it can true combo to f-fair at higher percents for a KO. Bless Sakurai

Guaranteed kill setup? Maybe not all we need, but still massive.

 

[RidleyDX]

So now we can space zone etc. better with faster shurikens and if u throw won't do the trick, we can go for a d throw frame trap or kill at certain percent, overall very nice changes. Good day to be a greninja main.

 

[Gunla]

Here's what I've gathered so far.

• Greninja's down throw had damage reduction as you noted (6%-5%), but endlag has been slightly decreased and it combos better into stuff (into footstool setups, might I add!)
• Water Shuriken's endlag has decreased. Can't say how much but it's a lot more like v3DS. Sadly don't have the old version to compare it to.
• [Bugfix]: Greninja's Water Shuriken now properly shorthops when used in the air. Previously, it didn't always do so. I'll get more footage of this as it's hard to get, but it definitely is more consistent.

 

[Ludiloco]

This whole post is a lie. D throw has like no hitstun whatsoever

 

[Sunnysunny]

omg i'm in love with these shurikens.
I feel like I can just jump around and throw these things for days. <3

May I ask what percent does d-throw start comboing into f-air?

 

[Coffee™]

omfg they buffed dthrow and shurikens.....







O_O

 

[FullMoon]

The D throw buff is the most amazing thing to ever happen to us.

D throw into up smash is really good on heavies and fast fallers, and can definitely KO at aroun 80-85%. I'm not sure if it's true, I need to test more, but it seems pretty close to true.

D throw to fair at high % is a true combo and KOs. Thank you so much Sakurai.

Wait D-Throw -> Up-Smash is a true combo on certain characters?

 

[Zantetsugun]

Today is a great day to be a ninja!!!

 

[Ludiloco]

No, D throw has almost no hit stun to it and you can act almost immediately. It's not a good option like up throw is.
The combos only work in training mode folks at least as far as I can tell. I can't get a warm body to test on without playing online which will mess everything up

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

No, D throw has almost no hit stun to it and you can act almost immediately. It's not a good option like up throw is.
The combos only work in training mode folks at least as far as I can tell. I can't get a warm body to test on without playing online which will mess everything up

Would going against a lvl 9 allow some testing as they insta air dodge out of not true combos?

 

[Ludiloco]

Not really, because they are frame perfect and can do things most humans cannot.

I'm honestly not sure yet if dthrow -> fair is true at high %, but the fact that we can now jump up and get an air dodge read instead of waiting underneath is still a buff.

And we got faster shurikens, so I'm happy overall. I just wish d throw had a bit more hitstun and these would be some broken combos.

Edit: I believe at a high % the hitstun on down throw increases, meaning dthrow -> fair is likely true and KOs. It's just kinda in that grey area that doesn't work online or against CPUs

If true this gives us a reliable KO option in Greninja's kinda awkward %s where up throw doesn't net anything but won't KO yet, and makes us incredibly potent.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I'm very happy about these buffs. My frog ninjas... TO VICTORY!!

 

[purifiedJAMZ]

About d-throw to f-air, you can't do it with the standing grab. You have dash grab and then immediately down throw to give yourself momentum for the f-air to connect before the hitstun is gone.

I don't know if it works on all characters but I tried it on Sheik around the 125%~ - 140%~ mark. I don't know but it's possible it could DIable too..

So basically, it's extremely situational. Sorry I got people excited, I should have tested it more.