Meta 1.1.4 Marth Changes

[DariusM27]

Sorry for the mistakes in the original post based on the video before the patch. Proceed below for 1.1.4 Marth changes! Wooo!

 

[Vipermoon]

LMAO, this is all so wrong that instead of going through all of it with you I urge you to read the Marth General thread for once. Read from where we started talking about his buffs. No but seriously because I don't have time at the moment.

Edit: in the meantime wanna remove this stuff because you're spreading misinformation

 

[Locuan]

There's a lot of assumptions made on this thread from that video. Come Wednesday, there will be work done to view the differences this current build of the game and the new one. Locking.

 

[Starblind_FRA]

I drop all those buffs to get back the old shielbreaker.

 

[Bribery]

This is what I've noticed so far in training mode for Marth. (so no freshness bonus). All tests were done on a 0% Mario.

Nair 1:
Sour: 3% -> 3.5% (2 sours did 7% to Mario)
Tipper: 4% -> 5%

Fair:
Sour: 7% -> 8%
Tipper: 10% -> 11.5% (2 tippers did 23% to Mario)

Uair:
Sour: 9% -> 9.5% (2 hits did 19% to Mario)
Tipper: 12% -> 13%

Dair:
Meteor: 14% -> 15%
Tipper: 13% -> 14%
Sour: 11% -> 12%

Bair:
Tipper: 12% -> 12.5% (2 tippers did 25% to Mario)

 

[Pugwest]

Up smashed buffed. Jab "buffed" and the tipper changes ofc. All I know for now.

Up smashed has a bigger ground hit box and just the sword does 16% uncharged, if the ground boxes hit its 17%

 

[DariusM27]

Five words... Down tilt knock back buff... OMG...

 

[SilverForUbers]

So apparently I can do down throw to (one step) turn around up tilt and it true combos at 0%. Has it always been like this?

 

[Freelance Spy]

I drop all those buffs to get back the old shielbreaker.

Ew no

 

[DariusM27]

Confirmed Marth buffs so far.

Greater damage on air attacks

jab utilt and ftilt duration reduced by 3 frames each.

dsmash duration reduced

1. Marth
   • Nair First Hit Sour/Tipper Damage: 3/4 -> 3.5/5
   • Nair Second Hit Sour/Tipper Damage: 7/9 -> 7/9.5
   • Fair Sour/Tipper Damage: 7/10 -> 8/11.5
   • Bair Tipper Damage: 12 -> 12.5
   • Uair Sour/Tipper Damage: 9/12 -> 9.5/13
   • Dair Sour/Sweet/Meteor Damage: 11/13/14 -> 12/14/15
   • Jab 1 Duration: 28F -> 25F
   • Ftilt Duration: 36F -> 33F
   • Dsmash Duration: 64F -> 54F

Greater range on a fair bair dtilt and ftilt

Greater kill power on air attacks


-----

Thoughts and questions

-the increased damage to Nair and uair may make the jump side b combos even more viable.

-great damage of dair seems to make it possible to get follow ups after hit more easily and is safer on shield.

-I haven't noticed fair or bair to be perceivably safer on shield :/ although they probably are

-Nair seems to have increased functionality and combo follow-up potential. I can fastfall use it as a tech chase seemingly different from before.

I will edit out anything that is confirmed placebo. It seems there is a lot to hope for in this patch.

 

[Reiks]

Was marth always able to cancel an immediate fair with a jump out of SH? I seem to be doing this.Plus out of a SH marths immediate fair autocancels?

 

[Xisin]

^ has always been a thing.

 

[DariusM27]

Yes, that's always been that way. Auto cancel fair requires timing, too soon and you get landing lag, obviously.

 

[Bribery]

Wow the end lag reductions are quite nice. I thought Jab 1, Dsmash, and Utilt felt faster in training mode but I couldn't tell if it was just placebo. Glad it's confirmed!

Marth feels so much better overall with this patch. I'm very pleased, especially if the hitbox changes turn out to be true.

 

[Dano2688]

I haven't had the chance to try out this new patch, but for what i'm reading, as a Marth main i'm very excited he's been improoved in significant ways. Keep the updates coming, please.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Wow the end lag reductions are quite nice. I thought Jab 1, Dsmash, and Utilt felt faster in training mode but I couldn't tell if it was just placebo. Glad it's confirmed!

Marth feels so much better overall with this patch. I'm very pleased, especially if the hitbox changes turn out to be true.

Bowserboy3 posted some pics in the general thread that seemingly prove the changes to be true. I trust his method as I've used it before.

...now if only dtilt could shuffle Marth forward again.

 

[Reizilla]

Faster jab utilt and ftilt by 3 more frames each.

Significantly faster dsmash

Being a little picky here, but I think you should clarify that what's faster is the end lag/cool down. Just saying "faster," some people might think they come out quicker.

 

[DariusM27]

Being a little picky here, but I think you should clarify that what's faster is the end lag/cool down. Just saying "faster," some people might think they come out quicker.

Fixed

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I drop all those buffs to get back the old shielbreaker.

Yes. Tipper shield breaker was really good when you baited opponents shield and a good mix up option. Better than f-smash back then to be honest.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Yes. Tipper shield breaker was really good when you baited opponents shield and a good mix up option. Better than f-smash back then to be honest.

I thought he was talking about melee SB...

 

[Ryuki of Spiral Rhapsody]

Noob question. I'm probably overthinking this, but what is "duration" referring to? is marth's down smash faster or something?

 

[Freelance Spy]

Noob question. I'm probably overthinking this, but what is "duration" referring to? is marth's down smash faster or something?

Yes, but it is unspecified if its faster startup or ending animation or a combination of the two. I'd tell you what it is if I was at home testing it myself.

 

[Reizilla]

Duration refers to the overall time of the move. In this case, reduced duration just means they shaved off frames at the end, so there's less time it takes before you can do something else.

 

[Pugwest]

Any reason no 1 is talking about the up-smash ground hit boxes being buffed? BOYS NOTICE PLS

 

[CaptainVul]

I'm loving the new knockback buffs and jab confirms

If they could fix Dair I'd be pretty content with Marth in Smash 4

 

[Gemba Board]

Is what Vipermoon said about tipper length changes confirmed? I'm labbing marth and I kinda feel an extended reach but like he said it could be a placebo.

 

[Vipermoon]

Any reason no 1 is talking about the up-smash ground hit boxes being buffed? BOYS NOTICE PLS

The dust cloud seems the same to me.

Gemba Board it's not placebo but just wait for the game data. No need to try prove anything when you know that's coming

 

[Locuan]

Any reason no 1 is talking about the up-smash ground hit boxes being buffed? BOYS NOTICE PLS

I want to believe. Anyways, once people get a thorough look of the data dump, things like any potential hitbox changes will be more clear.

 

[DariusM27]

Another thing I noticed, definitely with nair, but it seems that marth can fastfall much sooner after any air attack after a short hop. This is pretty great for landing on stage spikes after trump regrabs, similar to tlinks dair or something. Idk, see what you guys think.

 

[Vipermoon]

Another thing I noticed, definitely with nair, but it seems that marth can fastfall much sooner after any air attack after a short hop. This is pretty great for landing on stage spikes after trump regrabs, similar to tlinks dair or something. Idk, see what you guys think.

Not how that works though.

There is a jump acceleration and there is gravity (fall speed acceleration) which works against that. This determines your short hop and full hop heights/air times (and of course, during your full hop you'll reach maximum fall speed eventually). When you start falling you can fast fall. So it doesn't really make sense to say that he can fast fall earlier.

 

[DariusM27]

Not how that works though.

There is a jump acceleration and there is gravity (fall speed acceleration) which works against that. This determines your short hop and full hop heights/air times (and of course, during your full hop you'll reach maximum fall speed eventually). When you start falling you can fast fall. So it doesn't really make sense to say that he can fast fall earlier.

Hmm, well maybe he's slightly less floaty, or the attacks animations are just better designed somehow, but certainly there is more different than just damage output.

Or maybe hitboxes are just bigger

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just confirmed that Marcina and Roy had a startup reduction of one frame on Side B 1. Total frames reduced by one because of that. Followup attacks do not seem to have frame or input window changes.

 

[Izaw]

Marths range on his Fair seems to have been increased.

Remember how Sheiks fair out ranged Marths? Well I tried that again, where I put Marth and Sheik facing each other, with just enough range so that sheik can't actually hit him with Fair anymore, and Marths Fair now actually hits HER. What is up with this??

Also... Forward throw into fair/nair/bair/neutral b is a true combo now on players with bad/no DI at 0-30%.... Since when 0_o?

 

[Vipermoon]

Marths range on his Fair seems to have been increased.

Remember how Sheiks fair out ranged Marths? Well I tried that again, where I put Marth and Sheik facing each other, with just enough range so that sheik can't actually hit him with Fair anymore, and Marths Fair now actually hits HER. What is up with this??

Also... Forward throw into fair/nair/bair/neutral b is a true combo now on players with bad/no DI at 0-30%.... Since when 0_o?

I found that they had the same Fair range. But yes, it was already found in the official patch notes discusion thread that the tipper hitbox (or for Lucina, the second hitbox) was moved outward, effectively increasing Fair's range. Dtilt and Ftilt are other moves that received the same treatment (and Ftilt outranges Fsmash).

Fthrow seems the same really. The longer range Fair makes it easier to combo into.

 

[Izaw]

Sweet! I'm loving the new fair ^^!

 

[Broqan]

did uptilt used to reach the smashville platform? I just killed a shiek at 119 percent with the sweetspot.

 

[Vipermoon]

did uptilt used to reach the smashville platform? I just killed a shiek at 119 percent with the sweetspot.

Of course it did.

Utilt is the same strength. Still kills another Marth from the ground at 127 on SV/FD/DL.

 

[DariusM27]

Of course it did.

Utilt is the same strength. Still kills another Marth from the ground at 127 on SV/FD/DL.

Can you or anyone check if Marth is just faster in general somehow, on ground or air?

 

[nebulark]

Was Marth always able to hit some characters with f-smash on the battlefield plattforms? I tested the following characters:

Rob - Extremely easy, no misses
Kirby - Almost as easy
Megaman, while holding metalblade (prevents idle animation) - Difficult but possible, consistent when you have good positioning
Zero Suit Samus - Hit pretty often, but could be idle animation
Shiek and Mario - Almost impossible, probably only in idle animation

If this wasn't before, the f smash definitely got an increase in range.
Can somebody test this in 1.1.3? Best is probably megaman, while he holds metal blade.

 

[Vipermoon]

Can you or anyone check if Marth is just faster in general somehow, on ground or air?

I know that his walking acceleration is up. I don't know how to prove it though.