1.06 Patch discussion/findings

[FreedomTP]

I wish I didn't have to go to page 3 of this topic to find out confirmed changes in Shulk.

Lucky for you, Shulk doesn't seem to be touched. Maybe Sakurai forgot about him.

 

[gridatttack]

I swear they nerfed vision window to activate.

was playing online today, was going to counter a warlock punch like I usually do, and instead it hit me.
Been playing shulk since the game came out, so I noted right away Visions window to hit was shortened.

Needs more testing though, and i would hate if this was true :<

 

[Xpwnage123]

I'm pretty sure Shulk's aerials are faster now. It seems like his fair and uair seem especially faster. That could just be the placebo effect though. Regardless, it's safe to say that Shulk is at least as good as he was before the patch, if not better.

 

[Nammy12]

I tested all of Shulk's aerials, tilts and smashes.
There is zero difference in terms of startup or endlag.

Spoiler: Smashes

Fsmash

Usmash

Dsmash

Spoiler: Tilts

Ftilt

Utilt

Dtilt

Spoiler: Aerials Startup

Nair

Fair

Bair

Dair

Up air

Spoiler: Aerials Endlag

Nair

Fair

Bair

Dair

Up air

Jab is still frame 5.

 

[kenniky]

I tested all of Shulk's aerials, tilts and smashes.
There is zero difference in terms of startup or endlag.

Here's his smash comparisons.

Spoiler

Fsmash

Usmash

Dsmash

Aerials coming soon.

That epic zoom on the last gif though

imo Shulk is pretty balanced so idk why they would nerf/buff him

Although qol changes would be cool

 

[Berserker.]

Once we're done with Shulk's frame speed, we're moving on to vision. There are 2 things we need to test for this:

1) Vision's knockback (Which will be compared using KB values between the new and old version)

2) Air vision's reliability to connect (We'll have to be unanimous on this one. Test it thoroughly)


Edit:

Tested if Smash art got some sort of knockback buff. It didn't. 1.06 Smash f-tilt has a KB of 153. Same as the old f-tilt

 

[(s)hulkinator]

Although this could be placebo and I have no hard data to back it up, backslash seems to have noticeably more kill potential, especially when hitting the back of opponent.

 

[Berserker.]

Although this could be placebo and I have no hard data to back it up, backslash seems to have noticeably more kill potential, especially when hitting the back of opponent.

Proven to be false. KB values of both versions are equal

 

[Nammy12]

Once we're done with Shulk's frame speed, we're moving on to vision. There are 2 things we need to test for this:

1) Vision's knockback (Which will be compared using KB values between the new and old version)

2) Air vision's reliability to connect (We'll have to be unanimous on this one. Test it thoroughly)


Edit:

Tested if Smash art got some sort of knockback buff. It didn't. 1.06 Smash f-tilt has a KB of 153. Same as the old f-tilt

I tested vision out and it killed at the same percent on both versions (3DS)

I went into training and countered a bobomb thrown into the air.
Lightning flashes appeared at the same percents.

Power vision kills at the same percents as well.

 

[Berserker.]

I tested vision out and it killed at the same percent on both versions (3DS)

I went into training and countered a bobomb thrown into the air.
Lightning flashes appeared at the same percents.

Power vision kills at the same percents as well.

Alright, congrats guys.

Shulk is still the same :3

 

[erico9001]

Actually, he was nerfed.

See my post:

I'm going to continue the discussion here. Jerm's Shulk guide is the incorrect place to hold it.

Anyways, there is no reason to believe your testimony. You must provide evidence.

 

[Natch]

I'm going to continue the discussion here. Jerm's Shulk guide is the incorrect place to hold it.

Anyways, there is no reason to believe your testimony. You must provide evidence.

Unfortunately, I do not have video tools at my disposal.

However, if we are believe the Shulk video guide that Jerm made, then Dthrow knockback was nerfed,
Right around 11:53, an annotation comes onto the video that says Shulk's Dthrow kills at 100%. It does not anymore(that's assuming if it ever did). It instead kills around 122-126*

*To test my data, go to Omega Guar Plains at Shulk against Marth(level 3), and set him to stop. Around the percentages I mentioned above, Go to Smash Art, run up to Marth, and Dthrow him. Depending on how close you are to Marth when you grab him, it'll kill.

P.S. This is on patch 1.0.6 instead of patch 1.0.5, which the guide is based upon.[/quote]

Like any good scientist, I believe a repeat test is in order, given your statement. However, IF Shulk's dthrow(with Smash Art) never killed at 100% anyways, and always killed around 125%, then no nerfs actually occurred.

 

[erico9001]

Unfortunately, I do not have video tools at my disposal.

However, if we are believe the Shulk video guide that Jerm made, then Dthrow knockback was nerfed,

If you can give me the time in the video where Shulk kills with D-throw, I can investigate farther. It's a 34 minute video, so I'm not searching through it. For now, I'm guessing that Jerm was not in the same position on the stage that you were, or there was some DI/VI involved.

 

[Natch]

If you can give me the time in the video where Shulk kills with D-throw, I can investigate farther. It's a 34 minute video, so I'm not searching through it. For now, I'm guessing that Jerm was not in the same position on the stage that you were, or there was some DI/VI involved.

It's an annotation that occurs in the video at 11:53, in the top left hand corner.

When I talked to Jerm about this, he noted this:

Yeaaaa I think they did nerf it!! I was noticing that the knockback was much more similar to the 3ds version on the Dthrow because it wasn't killing people crazy early in smash art anymore (N) D:

I have no way of knowing beyond that annotation(which does not contain any specifics, just something along the lines of "Dthrow kills around 100%") and this piece of "evidence"(if you can call it that, even though Jerm DOES know his Shulk stuff) that Shulk's dthrow was nerfed in terms of knockback.

 

[Nammy12]

It's an annotation that occurs in the video at 11:53, in the top left hand corner.

When I talked to Jerm about this, he noted this:



I have no way of knowing beyond that annotation(which does not contain any specifics, just something along the lines of "Dthrow kills around 100%") and this piece of "evidence"(if you can call it that, even though Jerm DOES know his Shulk stuff) that Shulk's dthrow was nerfed in terms of knockback.

I tested these %'s a while ago.
http://smashboards.com/threads/shulk-smash-mode-k-o-percents.381974/

I don't know how Jerm is getting dthrow kills at 100% unless he's directly at the edge.
Even Jiggs doesn't get killed at 100% from starting positions.

Anyways, dthrow gets sparks at 136% on Mario like always.

 

[Natch]

I tested these %'s a while ago.
http://smashboards.com/threads/shulk-smash-mode-k-o-percents.381974/

I don't know how Jerm is getting dthrow kills at 100% unless he's directly at the edge.
Even Jiggs doesn't get killed at 100% from starting positions.

Anyways, dthrow gets sparks at 136% on Mario like always.

Oh, then maybe Jerm had it wrong. Thanks for the info.

 

[erico9001]

I tested these %'s a while ago.
http://smashboards.com/threads/shulk-smash-mode-k-o-percents.381974/

I don't know how Jerm is getting dthrow kills at 100% unless he's directly at the edge.
Even Jiggs doesn't get killed at 100% from starting positions.

Anyways, dthrow gets sparks at 136% on Mario like always.

Oh, then maybe Jerm had it wrong.

It is becoming apparent that Jerm does not fact check his numbers he puts into his guides. In his recent MALLC guide (that mostly ripped mine off), he got his number on how long it takes for an art to activate so wrong that I do not know where he got it from. Thousands of people watch the guides too...

Anyways, looks like your testimony was based off of Jerm's testimony, which was wrong . This further demonstrates the issue of relying on testimony alone .

 

[Berserker.]

Base KB is the same