1.0.6 Wii Fit Patch Notes and Predictions

[Arean]

I tested damage for all attacks earlier, U air damage didn't change.

 

[DairunCates]

I tested damage for all attacks earlier, U air damage didn't change.

Yeah. Turned out to be like the ONE think Thinkaman accidentally tested wrong (he forgot he used Deep Breathing at the time on earlier version). It's looking like we got completely overlooked this balance patch... which is admittedly still better than last time.

 

[anakette]

No one else suspects a change in the hitbox on up smash? I'm able to now dash in on a Mega Man and hit him with up smash while he's on the ground. Was that already possible?

 

[DairunCates]

No one else suspects a change in the hitbox on up smash? I'm able to now dash in on a Mega Man and hit him with up smash while he's on the ground. Was that already possible?

Yeah. It wasn't easy, but you could do that before. It still could've increased the hitbox, but it's somewhat hard to tell when both are pretty small compared to most up smashes.

 

[anakette]

Hmm, it seems pretty easy to do now, at least against a stationary opponent. Having no trouble dashing in and hitting with up smash reliably pretty much every time even against shorter characters like Villager, Mario, and Mega Man. Still can't hit some of the shortest characters, such as Pikachu, Olimar, or Jigglypuff, though.

If anyone still has the old version and can see if they get the same results, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[⑨ball]

Usmash new hitbox is a placebo.

If anyone remembers THIS from when I first gathered our kill percents, all usmash values were tested with dacus except for Jigglypuff, Pikachu, MK, and Kirby.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Wii fit is bottom tier....
Gets no changes.... Thanks Sakurai...

On the bright side Diddy got nerfed

 

[DairunCates]

Wii fit is bottom tier....
Gets no changes.... Thanks Sakurai...

On the bright side Diddy got nerfed

Admittedly, Diddy getting nerfed makes a LOT more characters viable, but yeah. It's kinda sad how some characters were just completely forgotten in the balance patch.

 

[⑨ball]

No thorough testing yet, but I'd be fine if nothing changed. It'd be the first patch she wasn't nerfed so that's neat.

Diddy's been nerfed but still has all the things that made him a threat because none of his start up/recovery was really affected. If he made any characters unviable before(which I doubt) they're still unviable-- they just die a bit later than before.

If we know anything from looking at Shiek, it's not damage that makes top tiers so powerful, it's the fact that they have really really good options. Things like Diddy having more range with his fair than most(if not all) sword weilders and it being autocancelable hasn't changed. Neither has uair coming out faster than 2/3 of the cast's jabs or it hitting above, infront, below, and slightly behind. He's still top 3 easy, just not as obnoxious due to kb reductions.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Sakurai just add a hitbox on his foot in the front smash animation, make up tilt have more range around, down tilt slightly faster, up smash have more range on the sides, down smash slightly stronger or less laggy, sun salutation recover 2-4%, deep breathing recover more like 5%-10%, grab have a bit more range, down throw have less lag so Wii Fit can actually follow up with back air, Nair or any aerial out of it, up throw being more powerful....

Even if Wii Fit got all these buffs.... No one would really use her/him anyways(besides us wii fit fans).

Why? Because Wii Fit isn't a easy character to use and has a odd fighting style. Most prefer to use simple and easy characters.

 

[⑨ball]

Sakurai just add a hitbox on his foot in the front smash animation, make up tilt have more range around, down tilt slightly faster, up smash have more range on the sides, down smash slightly stronger or less laggy, sun salutation recover 2-4%, deep breathing recover more like 5%-10%, grab have a bit more range, down throw have less lag so Wii Fit can actually follow up with back air, Nair or any aerial out of it, up throw being more powerful....

Even if Wii Fit got all these buffs.... No one would really use her/him anyways(besides us wii fit fans).

Why? Because Wii Fit isn't a easy character to use and has a odd fighting style. Most prefer to use simple and easy characters.

True, but that's typically what you want from a character when you're playing competitively. Low commitment high reward.

This is pretty much the easiest way to get a gauge of tier lists in any game. "Who gets what and how easily?"

WFT without customs is high commitment high reward which places her somewhere around high mid or low high, but lack of tournament results to show such means she'll have to settle for sitting pretty at low and bottom on most lists.

 

[anakette]

Over at reddit they're now claiming that WFT got improved hitboxes on her jab and Fsmash. http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32oh35/super_smash_bros_4_v106_patch_notes_compilation/

Can anyone confirm or deny?

 

[Macchiato]

Over at reddit they're now claiming that WFT got improved hitboxes on her jab and Fsmash. http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32oh35/super_smash_bros_4_v106_patch_notes_compilation/

Can anyone confirm or deny?

Placebo

 

[DairunCates]

Yep. It's been tested. They're the same. We very likely got overlooked entirely in the patch because we're not a popular character.

 

[anakette]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Erimir]

Sakurai just add a hitbox on his foot in the front smash animation, make up tilt have more range around, down tilt slightly faster, up smash have more range on the sides, down smash slightly stronger or less laggy, sun salutation recover 2-4%, deep breathing recover more like 5%-10%, grab have a bit more range, down throw have less lag so Wii Fit can actually follow up with back air, Nair or any aerial out of it, up throw being more powerful....

That amount of jump isn't going to happen at least not in one patch. All of those together would be huge.

Yeah, she's not easy to use, but recovering 10% off of a move* would definitely make everybody take note.

I do think they should, improve the range of the grab and maybe add a hitbox (probably a weak one) on the knee of Tree (up smash). Those are two of the most annoying issues with her - most characters can hit someone with a up smash without them literally being on top of you and WFT whiffs her grabs to a ridiculous extent. Her grab just isn't user-friendly - any normal player would expect her grab to work more often, but it whiffs when it looks like it shouldn't based on how other grabs work.

A 1% buff on Sun Salutation healing and a 2% buff on Deep Breathing would make her healing matter more. As it is, most characters only need to get one or two hits to cancel out the healing typical for one stock.

And obviously, a couple minor buffs to damage/lag/knockback would be good.

*that doesn't require action on your opponent's part

 

[Niala]

As a WiiFit Trainer main, I tested this almost immediately.

Happy to announce that her first jab and Fsmash have wider hitboxes to hit small characters!

(Also I noticed that her smashes come a little quicker, but need more testing and frame data, maybe tomorrow I'll post this)

Also I think her running is faster (need further testing).

I realize we've found out this is all placebo, but it's worth seeing just for the good illustration of the hitboxes in general and how they're capable of hitting shorter characters as long as they're within a specific range.

 

[Starcutter]

I'm not too sure if this was stated here yet, but Ftilt does MASSIVE shield damage now.

I noticed while playing with friends.

 

[⑨ball]

I'm not too sure if this was stated here yet, but Ftilt does MASSIVE shield damage now.

I noticed while playing with friends.

All of Wft's moves have always done good shield damage. This is most likely the placebo effect again.

 

[DairunCates]

All of Wft's moves have always done good shield damage. This is most likely the placebo effect again.

Yeah. It's always been really good, but the problem has always been actually getting people to be defensive enough to apply that pressure with her small range.

 

[moofpi]

Yeah. It's always been really good, but the problem has always been actually getting people to be defensive enough to apply that pressure with her small range.

I got it. A third projectile. When she is at 0% or in Deep Breathing her F-tilts shoot a beam exactly like Link's Master Sword in older Legend of Zelda games.

Wii Fit Trainer is fixed.

 

[⑨ball]

Yeah. It's always been really good, but the problem has always been actually getting people to be defensive enough to apply that pressure with her small range.

It's not that difficult actually. WFT has amazing mobility and the threat of run up shield being ever present keeps people from throwing out moves that are too unsafe. In smash however, you don't want just pressure or shield damage, if that was the case Marth/Lucina's shield breaker would be a god tier move -- you want SAFE pressure, which without customs, is pretty much limited to SS at optimal range.

 

[DairunCates]

It's not that difficult actually. WFT has amazing mobility and the threat of run up shield being ever present keeps people from throwing out moves that are too unsafe. In smash however, you don't want just pressure or shield damage, if that was the case Marth/Lucina's shield breaker would be a god tier move -- you want SAFE pressure, which without customs, is pretty much limited to SS at optimal range.

Fair enough. That's generally what I meant. There's not a safe way to get people to block and break their shields. You're always leaving yourself open when you shield pressure with WFT except with SS, and a good player will capitalize on that. You're better off aiming for hard punishes and playing a bit of keepaway at times.

Yeah. I agree on the mobility. I pretty much play WFT for that mobility. It's the most fun part of the character. Sadly, I still win my sets almost entirely from mentally exhausting my opponents to the point that they throw out unsafe options just to end the match; not from outmaneuvering them per se.

This is oddly why the pushup crawl strategy is pretty useful against several opponents that don't have a long range ground attack. You can frustrate them and force them to approach.

 

[⑨ball]

Well shield breaks are pretty uncommon. Even in 64 and melee where there were shield break combos (ironically it seems like 4 has the highest frequency of shield breaks). The main reason safe shield pressure is considered an advantage is because you want to take away your opponents ability to act out of shield or use it entirely whether from fear of being broken or it simply not having enough health to defend against moves that can poke through. WFT does in fact have one normal that is safe on shield in dtilt due to it's good shield push that is coupled with it's shield damage.

Keep away is certainly a good option for WFT and she has S tier hard punishes, but you don't want that to be your only aim. Even with her range you can play a good footsies game by knowing both of your spacings.

Also, "sadly" nothing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing patient until your opponent makes a mistake. That's pretty much the essence of the neutral game and can be considered outmaneuvering in and of itself. She's got the tools to mixup opponents and force bad options too, but patient play is completely viable. It's actually something I've been wanting to work on.

 

[Niala]

Anybody else been having a much easier time hitting UThrow>Uair? I feel like not only is it easier to hit, but it's easier to hit at higher percents too. Upwards of 50% I find it works pretty well. I also just asked TKBreezy to try it on-stream and he agrees that it's very much so a true combo now. Thoughts?

EDIT: I don't mean to imply it wasn't a true combo before, but I just mean to say it's much less frame-perfect now.

 

[⑨ball]

Most likely placebo based on the different weight classes. Most likely you both tested this on any of the fast fallers but were used to floaty and light characters.

From my experience characters like Fox are still super easy to do this on, while characters like Mario and Kirby are unbelievably difficult.

 

[tofumon]

No thorough testing yet, but I'd be fine if nothing changed. It'd be the first patch she wasn't nerfed so that's neat.

Wait she was nerfed in previous patches? Why would they nerf an already weak character?

 

[@TKbreezy]

Not that it actually matters competitively but WFT lost the ability to Deep Breathe Slide.

for those who don't know what a deep breathe slide is I'll tell you.

if you missed up a deep breathe in the air. (aka you didn't match the circles) the next time you did a deep breathe you would not cancel your momentum. so with that. you would purposefully mess up the first deep breathe than double jump and start the second deep breathe and if you landed on stage you would carry the momentum from your jump thus causing you to slide on the ground. while still deep breathing

they changed it so that if you do another deep breathe after the first one messes up you will cancel momentum again but you will also fall much faster in comparision to the first one.

so yeah. no more slide.


(posted this in the mewtwo patch thread so this is a copy pasta here)

 

[hdltq]

I feel that Sun Salutation takes more time to charge than before (Or at least that's what I've seen, might just be me).

 

[ACAR]

After a few hours of testing on 2 Wii U's, one pre-patched and one post, I can confirm you guys recieved mostly (testing frames is a *****) no changes...

Except one knockback change, they nerfed your up smash by 6 percentish? The Mario I tested on had varying results pre-patched, either died at 94-95%, weird.

Mario now gets K.O. at

Pre-patched 95%

Post-patched 101%

 

[DairunCates]

Also, "sadly" nothing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing patient until your opponent makes a mistake.

Oh. I know it's legitimate play. It's just not the most optimal play for keeping friendships with people that aren't serious about fighting games. If you rely on frustrating your opponent, you're not the most fun person to play with. I practice my high end game with friends, because I want to run her in a tourney or against some actual high end players online someday, but it's not something I can run for multiple matches in a row against my friends that are almost completely new to the franchise. I tend to only throw out my WFT when one of my two old school hardcore smash friends pulls out a main.

Hence, the "sadly". I'm not exactly ashamed of my more defensive approach to WFT (hell, it's why I main the character since her kit is just super varied), but it's not an easy thing to practice without ruining some friendships.

Wait she was nerfed in previous patches? Why would they nerf an already weak character?

They were primarily minor bug fixes that were useful (like the super hard to hit unblockable footbox) or things meant to prevent future bugs by standardizing certain parts of the engine (our landing lag from air dodge got doubled). If memory serves, I think we got some randomly mean ones in the first patch though, but back then, we didn't know WFT was one of the lower tier characters.

 

[⑨ball]

-snip-

We lost this in 1.05
It's why I was telling JohnNumbers that Volatile breathing wasn't even good on a niche set anymore.

After a few hours of testing on 2 Wii U's, one pre-patched and one post, I can confirm you guys recieved mostly (testing frames is a *****) no changes...

Except one knockback change, they nerfed your up smash by 6 percentish? The Mario I tested on had varying results pre-patched, either died at 94-95%, weird.

Mario now gets K.O. at

Pre-patched 95%

Post-patched 101%

Your testing is probably faulty. Did you set the testing dummy to control? Rumors of altered AI are most likely true, resulting in better DI from computers which could have messed with your numbers.

In anycase, just ran the test myself (3DS aka larger blastzones) and Mario still dies to Usmash at 105% from the sourspot (standing next to him) and 95% from the sweetspot (soft nair setup).

Oh. I know it's legitimate play. It's just not the most optimal play for keeping friendships with people that aren't serious about fighting games. If you rely on frustrating your opponent, you're not the most fun person to play with. I practice my high end game with friends, because I want to run her in a tourney or against some actual high end players online someday, but it's not something I can run for multiple matches in a row against my friends that are almost completely new to the franchise. I tend to only throw out my WFT when one of my two old school hardcore smash friends pulls out a main.

Hence, the "sadly". I'm not exactly ashamed of my more defensive approach to WFT (hell, it's why I main the character since her kit is just super varied), but it's not an easy thing to practice without ruining some friendships.

Lol, yeeeeeeeeeah I feel you on that one. Though if you're playing with friends who aren't as serious you can tend to get away with some more aggressive and risky gameplay anyway.

---------

Also just to note for @ ACAR and the forums in general, we should probably do another re-evaluation on our kill setups now that we've gotten a better understanding of our hitboxes (thanks in part to @ Indigo Jeans ). During the test above for the soft nair>usmash setup I got kills as low as 78% and black lightning as early as 80% which is interesting as those were the percent I usually test the correlation for deep breathing to kill percents.

Seems like a buff at first glance but I think it just has to do with better utilization of nair to get the central hitbox or the softest nair.

 

[ACAR]

Yep, control and on Final Destination Wii U. I just realized my inconsistency was due to hitting a sweet spot with dashing Up-Smash if I get WFT's model inside Mario. The numbers being 94% pre-patched and 100% post-patch when dashing inside Mario's hitbox. Otherwise they are 95% and 101% if I shoulder touch Mario and take him out there.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yeah I was gonna say you probably weren't hitting with the same hitboxes on USmash consistently.

Has anyone looked into Deep Breathing mechanics? I just checked to make sure it was still x1.16 but I didn't do more testing after that.

 

[ACAR]

The damage buff is the same for Deep Breathing (mostly just compared damages and knockback between patches), as well as duration of the buff and the speed of the circle timing thing.

Anything else you guys need looking into?

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

It might be me but Sun Salutation looks a bit brighter. It's probably Placebo effect

 

[Niala]

So I learned today from TK that they got rid of the Deep Breathing slide you could do, which I have to say, is the most saddening thing since they got rid of Wectoring. Although this is technically still just hearsay, I haven't tested it myself.

Also, thanks especially to @ Indigo Jeans for doing so much work for the boards, but also to everybody else for helping to test out when the patches come out. I'm glad our team is so willing to test and see what we can all find.

 

[NirvanaNexus]

Seems like Deep Breathing makes you "walk" faster now. The vine player posted a new clip comparing the speeds on a normal vs buffed WFT. Anyone mind testing this to see if this was there from the beginning? I never noticed since once I'm breathing, my mindset is in kill mode and start jumping and dashing around.
Here's the clip:
//vine.co/v/eaPeEZ9xvxD

I also miss the sliding glitch too.

 

[SafCar]

Seems like Deep Breathing makes you "walk" faster now. The vine player posted a new clip comparing the speeds on a normal vs buffed WFT. Anyone mind testing this to see if this was there from the beginning? I never noticed since once I'm breathing, my mindset is in kill mode and start jumping and dashing around.
Here's the clip:
//vine.co/v/eaPeEZ9xvxD

I also miss the sliding glitch too.

Tested it out on 3DS FD walking from one end to the other, using Wsplit to time it
Wound up getting this

• 3.96 Seconds without Deep Breathing
• 2.36 Seconds with Deep Breathing

Running FD

• 1.62 Seconds without Deep Breathing
• 1.62 Seconds with Deep Breathing

Either I'm making WFT walk faster than normal or DB really does increase Walk Speed. Might need further testing from someone with a wavebird controller. Even if this does work, would .7 seconds be enough to justify move -> Dtilt/Dsmash/Ftilt

EDIT: Results are going all over the place, we really need to test this with a wavebird because for all we know, the DB guy might have pushed the stick more than the normal guy.

 

[NirvanaNexus]

Tested it out on 3DS FD walking from one end to the other, using Wsplit to time it
Wound up getting this

• 3.96 Seconds without Deep Breathing
• 2.36 Seconds with Deep Breathing

Running FD

• 1.62 Seconds without Deep Breathing
• 1.62 Seconds with Deep Breathing

Either I'm making WFT walk faster than normal or DB really does increase Walk Speed. Might need further testing from someone with a wavebird controller. Even if this does work, would .7 seconds be enough to justify move -> Dtilt/Dsmash/Ftilt

EDIT: Results are going all over the place, we really need to test this with a wavebird because for all we know, the DB guy might have pushed the stick more than the normal guy.

Oh, so this is actually new and not something overlooked before the patch? I was skeptical of this since its something I don't think anyone would actually do since we already jump and run. I rather they put the buff on the run as well and not just the walking animation. I guess it'll be a safe way to get in on villagers and tilt the evil troll off the stage without dashing and eating floids.