[#08] Samus MU Discussion Thread 2010

[Bahamut777]

Discuss...

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Samus is really frustrating and boring to play against. Between her camping and edgeguarding, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to get to her.

Learn to powershield, it's the one thing you're counting on in this match-up. Knowing when to powershield whether it's her zair or the missiles is the goal. If she's at the peak of here short hop and starts pointing her arm gun at you, expect a missile. If she's not doing anything or it's an airdodge from a short hop, she'll most likely zair right before she lands. Learn the powershield timing of both. Since Ganon's so tall, Samus might try to buffer a zair right from the start of a short hop, it comes out pretty quickly so you can't powershield on reaction. If you do predict that form of zair and powershield it, rush in and try punish quickly because she'll still have some lag until she lands.

Distance is another thing that Samus likes to exploit. From far away she will just camp you to death, mid range she will try to follow up from her camping moves (ie. Missile > dash grab), and close range is her trying to hit you away for some more camping. Missiles and zair autocancel the instant they touch the ground. If you powershield a missile from mid range, try to roll away, spot dodge or fullhop/airdodge to dodge her follow up. If it's a dash grab then you have a lot of punishing options. Zair follow ups are usually dash attacks or dash grabs. If you're mid range and she's going to zair you, roll away. To punish her buffered attack.

After a while you have to mix things up. Even though it's Samus, she's not going to do the same thing everytime and get punished for it.

Offstage is really gay for Ganon. I'll say it right now, never try to risk a fair, you'll just get edgegayed. The only thing you should be doing offstage against her tipmaning, and ledgedrop uair/bair. Even if you miss these you can still land on the stage and not get edgehogged by her zair.

If we're recovering, we don't have much hope of recovering unless the Samus only uses Zair edgehogging once or we can land of the stage. We can wait a little bit if she zair edgehogs to hit with the tip of out UpB. It's not guaranteed to work but the more you know.

30 : 70 This is the best Match up I can give Ganon, we have answers to her camping but they're all pretty circumstancial. You have to play absolutely perfect to beat the best Samus'.

 

[Z1GMA]

If it weren't for Samus' lack of KO-moves, this match-up would be like 'G' 10:90 'S'.

But we can, and will, survive for hours with proper DI & zoning.

At all costs, avoid letting Samus put you in a spot where she can gimp/spike you.
Proper DI can't always help with that, but smart zoning can.

When we've racked about 70% on her, she's racked about 150% on us.

Ganon's mindset: I will take a lot of unavoidable damage here.
First, I'll just have to accept that - Then, I'll murder my way through Missiles & Zairs
til I get to Samus.

25 : 75

 

[A2ZOMG]

65/35 or 7/3 Samus's favor, the former on neutrals, the latter on most CP stages.

Powershielding is your approach in this matchup and your goal is to juggle and edgeguard her. You CANNOT kill this character onstage. You have to edgeguard her to kill her.

I'll ignore stating the obvious where she obviously outzones you and can edgeguard you pretty well. She has the tools to wall you fairly well, so you have to make the most of all punish opportunities. Ganon does have a decent juggle game on her, which isn't going to kill her unless she's far enough offstage. U-throw is better than D-throw in this matchup. The two throws you want most in this matchup are F-throw or U-throw. U-throw for setting up juggles. F-throw if you're trying to go for an edgeguard kill.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'm not going to analyze this at all. I cannot take Samus seriously at all.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Meh, Samus honestly isn't 75/25. Samus is one of my more played matchups.

You can't get in on her easily for sure, but you can definitely punish her extremely hard when the opportunity presents itself if you don't get psyched out by random Morph Ball Bombs. The only catch is you are forced to resort to edgeguards to actually kill this character.

While she easily punishes everything you do, opportunities will come if you can pick up on her patterns and react to her slower moves carefully, and if you have her cornered as well. Your juggles in this matchup imo are good enough to make Ganon a threat in this matchup. Edgeguarding her for the KO is the tough part, but is definitely possible in various ways. If she's recovering high, keep trying to juggle her. If she's trying to Z-air the ledge, N-airing her recovery can be pretty awesome. You can hit her out of Up-b with a perfectly timed D-air or ledgedrop U-air. It's a matter of guessing right and hopefully keeping the option of landing on stage open.

All in all I wouldn't try anything fancy until I get her above me. Then that's when the matchup starts looking good to me.

 

[Exalted]

Samus da Campus.

 

[ItemfinderDeluxe]

What's the horizontal knockback on Samus's N-Air - far away, mid-range, or not much? Apart from that, what else does Samus use up close to try and get Ganon away?

Also, since D-Tilt is probably Samus's best KO move what percentage does it need to KO Ganon?

 

[Z1GMA]

What's the horizontal knockback on Samus's N-Air - far away, mid-range, or not much? Apart from that, what else does Samus use up close to try and get Ganon away?
Up+b/Nair OoS, Jabs, and sometimes Ftilt.

Also, since D-Tilt is probably Samus's best KO move what percentage does it need to KO Ganon?
Luckily, her Dtilt isn't that effective when it comes to KO'ing heavies.
I'd guess we've to be over 150% for it to kill us.

______________

 

[KillerJawz]

Samus's best KO move is Up Angled Fsmash, Dtilt is just easier to land because it actually has a hitbox :/.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Samus can kill you with F-smash, D-smash, D-tilt, U-tilt, and Charge Shot. All at rather high percents (160ish% ballpark generally speaking if they are completely fresh), but they have uses in different situations, all of them for the most part work just fine for punishing mistakes. U-tilt deserves mention as an anti-air. Charge Shot is something to watch out for while recovering.

Your goal on the other hand is to somehow edgeguard her when she has around 70-90 damage.

 

[KillerJawz]

You forgot Bair, and just remove Dsmash because it's just not a kill move. All of the others you mentioned kill earlier then Dsmash.