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Was Javi the best player at one point?

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Varist

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really? he proved

Javi woulld have stayed in bracket and beat M2k
no he didn't.

and you can say i don't accept him as much as you want, but i've never said that i don't. i just said you were stupid. so if you would like to say i think you're stupid you're pretty justified imo.

mark of a true plebeian is setting up straw mans and putting words in peoples' mouths. gj
 

Blistering Speed

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As much as I despise Merkuri and Roneblaster in equal amounts, I'm going with Merkuri here as the lesser of two ****tards.

Johns are johns are johns, be they legit, false, significant or meager. You judge a player off his performance, nothing more and nothing less. The rest is just subjective bull**** that fanboys use to leverage their own proximity bias.
 

Varist

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armada's mom dies and he goes to Smashers' Reunion and gets 17th.

leffen is the #1 player in the world

you're right it's subjective, but all of melee is subjective. you need to use your own brain to determine what's fair and what's not when assessing players. some johns are fair. incorporate them. reasonably.

don't be a robot.
 

Fuss

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Javi has the capability of goin' bacon on some people at tournaments but since he didn't pull it off at APEX then that's just what it is, I mean he ***** some big names, and I think with some more experience he could go places..

Just like how GF's were pretty much boring as ****, but skill and saint-like patience was displayed and the player who won, won. **** happens, stop worrying about who's better than who and try to achieve it yourself.
 

Blistering Speed

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incorporate them. reasonably.
Unfortunately, people are incapable of this. It's inevitably better to take a hard line for precisely this reason. There is always an ulterior motive. PeePee gets sick? John for PeePee. I didn't see Roneblaster johning for Armada when he was ill at Pound 4. Funny how the criteria changes.
 

Varist

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that's why no one listens to roneblaster.

and why no one should listen to merkuri.

Javi woulld have stayed in bracket and beat M2k
he could accomplish anything
seriously? because of 2 games with PP? the kid's top tier, but people honestly need to keep their **** together before they start calling him a hidden prophet.

"being the 4th best player at APEX" is different from "being the 4th best player in the world". Always. It takes a stream of consistency to stabilize the various johns, for both javi and his opponents, and make a reliable decision. that means more tournaments or just more games with money pressure.
 

Veetaak

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As much as I despise Merkuri and Roneblaster in equal amounts, I'm going with Merkuri here as the lesser of two ****tards.

Johns are johns are johns, be they legit, false, significant or meager. You judge a player off his performance, nothing more and nothing less. The rest is just subjective bull**** that fanboys use to leverage their own proximity bias.
Because getting a crit in pokemon is skills since you performed better with it
 

Blistering Speed

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Because getting a crit in pokemon is skills since you performed better with it
This is Melee, not Pokemon. The only randomly assigned, game altering variables are (that immediately come to mind) Peach's turnips, Luigi's misfire and G&W's hammer. They are an inherent component of the game.

This is not the same as what I'm talking about.
 

Veetaak

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This is Melee, not Pokemon. The only randomly assigned, game altering variables are (that immediately come to mind) Peach's turnips, Luigi's misfire and G&W's hammer. They are an inherent component of the game.

This is not the same as what I'm talking about.
Random factors outside of the game can alter the outcome of a match aswell. It makes no sense to add those random factors when judging a player's skill.
 

Merkuri

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really? he proved
Quote: Javi wouldnt have 2-0d m2K.


no he didn't.

and you can say i don't accept him as much as you want, but i've never said that i don't. i just said you were stupid. so if you would like to say i think you're stupid you're pretty justified imo.

mark of a true plebeian is setting up straw mans and putting words in peoples' mouths. gj
that's why no one listens to roneblaster.

and why no one should listen to merkuri.
Quote: Javi woulld have stayed in bracket and beat M2k

Quote: he could accomplish anything


seriously? because of 2 games with PP? the kid's top tier, but people honestly need to keep their **** together before they start calling him a hidden prophet.

"being the 4th best player at APEX" is different from "being the 4th best player in the world". Always. It takes a stream of consistency to stabilize the various johns, for both javi and his opponents, and make a reliable decision. that means more tournaments or just more games with money pressure.


Wow, what a blatant out of context depiction of my post. I never said Javi would have beaten M2k, I was saying he could have beat M2k, I suggested it as an alternative for whoever said M2k would have 2-0'd Javi.

An ******* you never had to say you never accepted Javi, anyone with half brain could see that is the case. The only one setting up strawman arguments here is YOU

And to further clarify my argument that you've butchered, I'm saying Javi could do anything, just as I theoretically you and I could accomplish anything, only in Javi's case it's far more believable since he just got 4th at the 2nd largest smash tournament ever. I never said anything about him being the 4th best player in the world you straw man creating imbecile.

Random factors outside of the game can alter the outcome of a match aswell. It makes no sense to add those random factors when judging a player's skill.
No.

On any given day a player is never at 100% of his game. That is player are typically not playing perfect as they would like to. You judge a person skill by how consistently they can perform as close to there best level of play as possible. PP not being to perform well because he's sick is no different from me not being able to perform well because I financial anxiety. Everyone has **** in there life, but in a tournament you put that aside and try to perform to there best of there ability.

In simple terms stop acting as if PP being sick is some amazing phenomena that can't be accounted for, EVERYONE has **** that affects their gameplay. PP being sick is one johns in a million of them. No one take MM2k serious if he said he lost because his best friend wouldn't talk to him anymore, and yet its just as valid john. Going by what you said ''its a random factor outside of the game that can alter one's gameplay'' and his performance shouldn't be taking into account when judging his skill? That ludicrous.
 

stelzig

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In simple terms stop acting as if PP being sick is some amazing phenomena that can't be accounted for, EVERYONE has **** that affects their gameplay. PP being sick is one johns in a million of them. No one take MM2k serious if he said he lost because his best friend wouldn't talk to him anymore, and yet its just as valid john. Going by what you said ''its a random factor outside of the game that can alter one's gameplay'' and his performance shouldn't be taking into account when judging his skill? That ludicrous.
PP is obviously going to recover from his illness pretty quickly though. If you want to call peepee worse for the next few days/when he has the flu, then by all means...

Don't think one (or even two) tournaments is much data to base a conclusion on either. So I think judging with possibly a little bias is a far better way to go.

Had this discussion with danes when making a PR as well, and seemingly (and sadly imo) most were interested in a more dynamic ranking, rather than a consistent ranking where a few outlier events don't briefly change absolutely everything. I guess you are among this type of people?

If javi was like clearly better than peepee I would agree on going to that conclusion right away, but I don't really think he was, especially with his sickness johns in mind. Even if you think he was, then you can't really dismiss that alot of people disagree. Bo3 in bracket also sucks... Hopefully america will go Bo5 a little earlier like we do in europe :p

Edit: All the other type of johns you suggest are also possible to set aside with the right mind btw. Being sick? Not so much.
 

Veetaak

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@Merkuri

A financial problem would only have an effect on how much you can practice and not tournament performance.. I would concider depression (which I think you were getting at?) something that hinders you to perform well. If I know that someone is good but they are feeling down and plays like **** at a tournament I would still concider him good. As long as they can show me how good they are now and then, then I don't need to judge their skill by their performance on a day where something that has nothing to do with their skill altered their performance

What about the rest of the time PP plays smash when he isn't sick? Did he just got miracelously better? Judging someone from 2 out of 500 times they play smash is just seeing it in black and white and we can judge better than that as humans.

No, I did not say that we shouldn't judge from performance.
 

Roneblaster

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i always knew blistering speef was a worthless troll.

Unfortunately, people are incapable of this. It's inevitably better to take a hard line for precisely this reason. There is always an ulterior motive. PeePee gets sick? John for PeePee. I didn't see Roneblaster johning for Armada when he was ill at Pound 4. Funny how the criteria changes.
I didnt know he was sick.

His performance was pretty consistent with all his other placings here in america performed well.

I dont really understand what ur getting at. Nobody thinks armada is anything short of a top 2 player in the world. Theres nothing there to john for.

Ur a dip****.

I hope u and merkuri get married and make little troll babies.

:phone:
 

Beat!

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His performance was pretty consistent with all his other placings here in america performed well.
Actually, it wasn't/isn't. Pound 4 is the only time he's placed outside of top 2 in america.

2-4-2-2-1-1

I guess it comes down to how you define "pretty consistent", but still.
 

Merkuri

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What about the rest of the time PP plays smash when he isn't sick? Did he just got miracelously better? Judging someone from 2 out of 500 times they play smash is just seeing it in black and white and we can judge better than that as humans.
The problem with this thinking is the thing Genesis2 and Apex have in common other than PP johning about being sick, is that there also the most recent international tournaments he has attended. I think more likely than him being sick, what is happening is that the metagame has caught up to him. He can't overwhelm the top players anymore.
 

Veetaak

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I'm not going to discuss whether he was sick or not. If he was sick then I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually better than he showed at Apex and if he wasn't then it might be more of what you said just now.
 

trahhSTEEZY

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I didnt know he was sick.

His performance was pretty consistent with all his other placings here in america performed well.

I dont really understand what ur getting at. Nobody thinks armada is anything short of a top 2 player in the world. Theres nothing there to john for.

Ur a dip****.

I hope u and merkuri get married and make little troll babies.

:phone:
reneblade, why are you so pushy with your opinion? your so hostile about being right, and you just shutdown views outside of yours..

saying head-to-heads ARE the determination for who's better over tournament play is known to be wrong. Regardless of if it's true, you're saying the opposite of what everyone else would say, and spitting it out like were idiots for thinking so.

and for gods sake drop the word troll already.
 

Roneblaster

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Because i hate most everyone who posts in melee discussion. Me "shutting out other peoples opinions" isnt true because while im far from always right, im far correct far more often then merkuri(troll) and scrubspeed(often doesnt give opinions and makes fun of other ppls PoV)

Placings dont mean **** without common opponents. Even then it may not be clear who is better.(I lose to person a but best person b. You beat person a But lose to person b) Head to head pretty much always means something.

MD is a trolls paradise which is why i only pop in when im bored and then usually go pretty hard while im here.

Troll troll troll troll

:phone:
 

Zoler

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Merkuri you suck. PP is an awesome guy and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lie about being sick and stuff. He doesn't strike me as that kind of person at all.

At Apex Me and Amsah pretty much had to force him to tell us his views why he lost to Javi. :)

I'm still sick after APEX and it's almost been a week now.
Same here, not until today was I well enough to go to school T_T

Also Roneblaster is the most annoying troll I've ever seen, the worst part is that he's probably not a troll, he's just trying to cover up his idiotic opinions and arguing abilities.
 

Cherished Doll

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I repeat pp didn't do bad at all at least he didn't get 33rd or Somecrap .. agree with Lucas he was sick and I doubt he would lie about that shiz happens.. y'all just need to get off his case! He'll **** next time!
^_^

:phone:
 

Merkuri

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Merkuri you suck. PP is an awesome guy and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lie about being sick and stuff. He doesn't strike me as that kind of person at all.

At Apex Me and Amsah pretty much had to force him to tell us his views why he lost to Javi. :)



Same here, not until today was I well enough to go to school T_T

Also Roneblaster is the most annoying troll I've ever seen, the worst part is that he's probably not a troll, he's just trying to cover up his idiotic opinions and arguing abilities.
Not lying so much as exaggerating. I believe PP's best days are behind him. He'll probably do as well as Hungrybox from now on(which is still very good)

And I agree with you about Roneblaster.

I repeat pp didn't do bad at all at least he didn't get 33rd or Somecrap .. agree with Lucas he was sick and I doubt he would lie about that shiz happens.. y'all just need to get off his case! He'll **** next time!
^_^

:phone:
That's exactly what people said after genesis :rolleyes:
 

Merkuri

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apparently merkuri is a chick aswell (not sure i believe that)

CAT FIGHT IN THIS MOTHA
I'm a in fact a female. Does something about the way I post appear masculine?

@Doll: Sorry, I didn't realize you were a Dr.PeePee groupie.
 

trahhSTEEZY

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Nothing short of expected from such a douchey poster.

i feel so bad that people are so lonely/desperate that they feel the need to make online personas just to pretend to be someone else, on top of that being a douche.

very sad that some people get THAT bored.
 

Bones0

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I got lonely and desperate enough to make an online persona.

The only difference is my online persona isn't an ***. It's way cooler than I am in real life. Something I can aspire to. Merkuri on the other hand... damn.
 

Roneblaster

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Merkuri you suck. PP is an awesome guy and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lie about being sick and stuff. He doesn't strike me as that kind of person at all.

At Apex Me and Amsah pretty much had to force him to tell us his views why he lost to Javi. :)



Same here, not until today was I well enough to go to school T_T

Also Roneblaster is the most annoying troll I've ever seen, the worst part is that he's probably not a troll, he's just trying to cover up his idiotic opinions and arguing abilities.
hey ******. i was wondering when u were gonna pop ur head in here and try to sound smart.

ur a worthless douchebag who is friends with a well recognized giant ****ing ****** named leffen.

go back to ur hole ******.


@ trollkuri. forever the worst troll.
 
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