The Falcon Social

[Scipion121212]

1 or 2 bad matchups.

Only bad matchup for metaknight is pink metaknight. And pink meta has no bad matchup.

DartMarx: Hehe ugly but new. Too bad I won´t be helpful, I have only 1 VERY BAD opponent (I can 2/3 stock his Snake with Falcon) and I am in like most inactive region in world, (Czech Republic, mid-Europe) so no tournaments for me. And I am moving to BBrawl as soon as PAL version is out anyway. So do not expect someone good and helpful

EDIT: I will be cool n I will have my color too

 

[Darxmarth23]

Only bad matchup for metaknight is pink metaknight. And pink meta has no bad matchup.

DartMarx: Hehe ugly but new. Too bad I won´t be helpful, I have only 1 VERY BAD opponent (I can 2/3 stock his Snake with Falcon) and I am in like most inactive region in world, (Czech Republic, mid-Europe) so no tournaments for me. And I am moving to BBrawl as soon as PAL version is out anyway. So do not expect someone good and helpful

EDIT: I will be cool n I will have my color too

I usually don't. Welcome I guess.

And color? You have to earn it son. I got Red, and after a really long time I passed it to ToKnee.

Man...

I'm so bored....

This Mk poll is gonna take another two weeks to end. And the Pro Ban % is dropping. We need a 2/3 majority to make a difference....

My sig is the question that never got answered. Until I find the answer to that question Mk will most likely not get banned.

I am black.

 

[Sukai]

Snake vs. Falcon is so fun.

 

[Scipion121212]

I usually don't. Welcome I guess.

And color? You have to earn it son. I got Red, and after a really long time I passed it to ToKnee.

Man...

I'm so bored....

This Mk poll is gonna take another two weeks to end. And the Pro Ban % is dropping. We need a 2/3 majority to make a difference....

My sig is the question that never got answered. Until I find the answer to that question Mk will most likely not get banned.

I am black.

And I am brightly brown.
I earned my coulour by being so awesome but I guess that doesn´t count, does it?
I am saying that MK shouldn´t be banned if HE gets 66% of votes. I would find it fair enough,
As the question in your sig, that´s because boards were broken and you used firefox. or u use lint/link or wth is name of that web browser that don´t show pictures.
I do not know why pro-ban% are dropping, pro ban have MUCH better reasoning. really, they do. I could use my powerful scan against contradictions and sillism on anti-ban arguments but I do not know whether I have guts for it or not.. :/ Maybe its dropping because of LULSCRUBZ idiots? (not naming anyone, but..)
also, what you usually do not do?
EDIT: my guess, welcoming people?

I dont know if cyan is right color.. I will experiment with others.

 

[Darxmarth23]

And I am brightly brown.
I earned my coulour by being so awesome but I guess that doesn´t count, does it?
I am saying that MK shouldn´t be banned if HE gets 66% of votes. I would find it fair enough,
As the question in your sig, that´s because boards were broken and you used firefox. or u use lint/link or wth is name of that web browser that don´t show pictures.
I do not know why pro-ban% are dropping, pro ban have MUCH better reasoning. really, they do. I could use my powerful scan against contradictions and sillism on anti-ban arguments but I do not know whether I have guts for it or not.. :/ Maybe its dropping because of LULSCRUBZ idiots? (not naming anyone, but..)
also, what you usually do not do?
EDIT: my guess, welcoming people?

I dont know if cyan is right color.. I will experiment with others.

In order

No. Being Awesome is overrated and awesome people should be purged.
LOlOL I stoped caring.

No. Its cause no one eats fried chicken here like how it's supposed to be eaten. Live. Thats right. I fry chickens alive.

yeas they do. Do whatever the hell you want. I'm getting bored with this place again.

I usually do not not steal bikes.

Like yours.

Bike Count +1

Hi P3 and TKONTK

I'm outta here guys. Nice talking to you. But not really.

And your name is Scipion; Magenta is not for you.

 

[Noodlehead]

Only bad matchup for metaknight is pink metaknight. And pink meta has no bad matchup.

DartMarx: Hehe ugly but new. Too bad I won´t be helpful, I have only 1 VERY BAD opponent (I can 2/3 stock his Snake with Falcon) and I am in like most inactive region in world, (Czech Republic, mid-Europe) so no tournaments for me. And I am moving to BBrawl as soon as PAL version is out anyway. So do not expect someone good and helpful

EDIT: I will be cool n I will have my color too

i thought diddy does good against mk when hes on the ground
oh well *shrugs*

 

[Scipion121212]

i thought diddy does good against mk when hes on the ground
oh well *shrugs*

LOL see dapuffster against.. Dojo/M2K/Plank? not sure. diddy does well when both are on ground, but MK isn´t on ground, he is aircamping. so in end, it is more like 75/25 for MK when MK can naner.
Also, whats bad about Scipion and purple? Purple is color of good.. xD

 

[AlexoftheAura]

I'm sure you will enjoy this.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7985966

 

[Player-3]

rofl

the brawl community is a bunch of *****s

play mk if hes that broken

its brawl it sucks anyways

 

[Zeallyx]

Ahem.. This post is silly, sir.
it´s full of... .... .... and you should feel bad for posting this. Alot.
Nothing keeps you from using infinite cape glitch. Flat because it has been crushed by banhammer.
Nothing keeps you from abusing DeDeDe on wolk offs. FREAKING BANNED, MAN.
Nothing keeps you from stalling and planking, yet it is FREAKING BANNED. (or at least restricted, because people are like "OH NOEZ BIAASS!!!!")

Without ban, nothing keeps you from doing this YET IT IS BANNED. EVERYONE CAN DO IT, BUT WHY IT IS BANNED?? Because it is freaking annoying to play it with these things. Same with meta. Majority is with me. look at poll. You know I am right in all points and there are no counter arguments for it. You shouldn´t post something hoity-toity like this.
no, this is my normal mood.

cry moar. (DDD grab+walkoff = death, IDC = escape+stall without limit). picking MK doesnt mean your opponent loses by default. yes, MK is a good, argueably the best, character in brawl, but MK isnt as broken as DDD on walkoffs or the ICG.
MK is, indeed, obviously (one of the few) best characters. And makes it almost impossible for low(er) tier characters to place well.

But do they place well? yes, they do. Even in tournies where MK's are present.

in short:
Ally's falcon>good MK

best>good

though, I admit, a hard matchup, but not unwinnable, proven by experience of experienced players, thus not broken.

And on top of this point the point I pointed out before (nothing keeps you from picking MK yourself).

So banning MK is silly. Play MK yourself, or stop johning bro.

 

[Sukai]

The entire thread is pretentious, self righteous opinions clashing.
There's no real absolute credibility despite any truth that was told.

It's just pages of reworded versions of, "UR STUPID, IM RITE UR WRONG AND HERES Y!"
I'm neutral, but I'm curious to what will happen if Meta Knight is banned.

Like how will the metagame look?
Plenty of people speculate (anti-ban far more pessimistic), but I want to see what will actually happen.

 

[Technodeath]

but the fact is, unless you paid a majority of the smashboards users to vote pro ban, nothing will happen. so we wont get to see it.

 

[Mikey Free]

I agree with what some people have said above. Sure metaknight is good..in fact he is **** good. But to be completly honest i don't think he should be banned. I don't think there is any metaknight out there that cannot be beaten with the right amount of skill.

...now ice climbers infinite chain grab...well that is another story.

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

I agree with what some people have said above. Sure metaknight is good..in fact he is **** good. But to be completly honest i don't think he should be banned. I don't think there is any metaknight out there that cannot be beaten with the right amount of skill.

...now ice climbers infinite chain grab...well that is another story.

Wow... learn your **** please. The IC infinites are not broken. All they do is make a useless character useful. It's not that difficult to get around it.

 

[Technodeath]

^ this.

as annoying as the IC's might be, it's all avoidable to some degree and defeatable, as is MK.

**** happens. MK wont be banned even if we want him to. all you can do is focus on defeating MK

 

[Scipion121212]

The entire thread is pretentious, self righteous opinions clashing.
There's no real absolute credibility despite any truth that was told.

It's just pages of reworded versions of, "UR STUPID, IM RITE UR WRONG AND HERES Y!"
I'm neutral, but I'm curious to what will happen if Meta Knight is banned.

Like how will the metagame look?
Plenty of people speculate (anti-ban far more pessimistic), but I want to see what will actually happen.

If you havent got that, it is because most people (not naming anyone concretely) are very hard-headed. however, if you would apprectiate all reasoning more, I will try, but I have only like 10 minutes (I will maybe edit my post later).

cry moar. (DDD grab+walkoff = death, IDC = escape+stall without limit). picking MK doesnt mean your opponent loses by default. yes, MK is a good, argueably the best, character in brawl, but MK isnt as broken as DDD on walkoffs or the ICG.
MK is, indeed, obviously (one of the few) best characters. And makes it almost impossible for low(er) tier characters to place well.

But do they place well? yes, they do. Even in tournies where MK's are present.

in short:
Ally's falcon>good MK

best>good

though, I admit, a hard matchup, but not unwinnable, proven by experience of experienced players, thus not broken.

And on top of this point the point I pointed out before (nothing keeps you from picking MK yourself).

So banning MK is silly. Play MK yourself, or stop johning bro.

So here wordplay comes again, however as I used it myself, I hope I can see all weaknesses of this practise.

Broken (as I pointed in another thread) does mean that it "breaks" one or more aspects of brawl HOW HE IS PLAYED NOW. This is important, so remember it.

The comparsion I made was accurate. Why? Because all of these things break at least one aspect of game. To make it more precise, here is what exactly what they broke:

DDD-walkoff: Even though it might seem "broken", it breaks only 1 RELATIVE aspect of brawl, and that is fun. You could "lolscrub" everyone that if they want to win, they could stop whining and pick DDD/character that cant be chaingrabbed. In fact, as it breaks only 1 relative aspect of brawl, it is LESS broken than metaknight himself!! This, I think, proves that it is wrong to say it is broken. Please, use broken in same way I use it, if you dont mind, I will specify your mean of broken, "overpowered/very strong", so I hope you will use broken as broken and not as overpowered, for this use please word overpowered (oh how hard it is to write something to wordplaying people! )

IDC: What aspect of brawl does it break? Same as DDD-walkoff + arguable overpoweredness. ARGUABLE one (will write later why). I will maybe edit here something later, if you will wordplay, as I dot have much time right now.

You dont have to say me that best is better than good. I know that. Problem isn´t that it completely overpowers low tier, problem is it breaks counterpick system in both stages and characters. maybe will edit something here later as well, but I hope it is clear what I mean by this right now.

I say banning walkoffs is silly and if you dont like it pick DDD/someone who cannot be chaingrabbed, as it breaks game LESS than MK as I prove before. Note, that this statement would be wrong with your use of brokeness (overpoweredness), which luckily isnt what broken means. However, overpoweredness of one kind breaks game and other, while weaker, do. Why? Because there is overall overpoweredness and overpoweredness against some characters, and the second DOESNT break the game, while the first does. To elude useless wordplay, note that MK might be "overpowered" or not "overpowered", this is only feeling which I want to elude. In fact, MK DOESNT even have to be overpowered to be bannable!! He must be broken, alias breaking one or more aspects of game. Whcih he provably does. this isnt opinion, note, that this is HARD AND COLD FACT.
I hope readers (knuxrouge ) will be satisfied with my reply, being quite unbreakable. Please, acknowledge TKONTK that I will not respond to you if you will respond in same hoity-toity way, because I would only repead what I wrote. I responded on all arguments you wrote anti-ban. Now is your turn to prove me wrong. I hope no more wordplay.

 

[Zeallyx]

If you havent got that, it is because most people (not naming anyone concretely) are very hard-headed. however, if you would apprectiate all reasoning more, I will try, but I have only like 10 minutes (I will maybe edit my post later).

So here wordplay comes again, however as I used it myself, I hope I can see all weaknesses of this practise.

Broken (as I pointed in another thread) does mean that it "breaks" one or more aspects of brawl HOW HE IS PLAYED NOW. This is important, so remember it.

The comparsion I made was accurate. Why? Because all of these things break at least one aspect of game. To make it more precise, here is what exactly what they broke:

DDD-walkoff: Even though it might seem "broken", it breaks only 1 RELATIVE aspect of brawl, and that is fun. You could "lolscrub" everyone that if they want to win, they could stop whining and pick DDD/character that cant be chaingrabbed. In fact, as it breaks only 1 relative aspect of brawl, it is LESS broken than metaknight himself!! This, I think, proves that it is wrong to say it is broken. Please, use broken in same way I use it, if you dont mind, I will specify your mean of broken, "overpowered/very strong", so I hope you will use broken as broken and not as overpowered, for this use please word overpowered (oh how hard it is to write something to wordplaying people! )

IDC: What aspect of brawl does it break? Same as DDD-walkoff + arguable overpoweredness. ARGUABLE one (will write later why). I will maybe edit here something later, if you will wordplay, as I dot have much time right now.

You dont have to say me that best is better than good. I know that. Problem isn´t that it completely overpowers low tier, problem is it breaks counterpick system in both stages and characters. maybe will edit something here later as well, but I hope it is clear what I mean by this right now.

I say banning walkoffs is silly and if you dont like it pick DDD/someone who cannot be chaingrabbed, as it breaks game LESS than MK as I prove before. Note, that this statement would be wrong with your use of brokeness (overpoweredness), which luckily isnt what broken means. However, overpoweredness of one kind breaks game and other, while weaker, do. Why? Because there is overall overpoweredness and overpoweredness against some characters, and the second DOESNT break the game, while the first does. To elude useless wordplay, note that MK might be "overpowered" or not "overpowered", this is only feeling which I want to elude. In fact, MK DOESNT even have to be overpowered to be bannable!! He must be broken, alias breaking one or more aspects of game. Whcih he provably does. this isnt opinion, note, that this is HARD AND COLD FACT.
I hope readers (knuxrouge ) will be satisfied with my reply, being quite unbreakable. Please, acknowledge TKONTK that I will not respond to you if you will respond in same hoity-toity way, because I would only repead what I wrote. I responded on all arguments you wrote anti-ban. Now is your turn to prove me wrong. I hope no more wordplay.

First of all, as this is a point of discussion, saying I, in this case, are by default wrong, or talk down to me, doesnt win you the arguement.

Having that said, MK breaks, as you say, certain parts of the game. Agreed.
With that out of the way, please note that when one bans metaknight, one will change brawl so dramatically that the end is out of sight.

Snake is broken too. Though he has harder matchups than metaknight, which will probably be a counter arguement for this statement, but as you say metaknight breaks some, or alot, of feutures in competitive brawl, and for that should be banned, than snake must be banned too, according to your logic, as he breaks certain aspects too, albeit, less aspects. But still enough to be a hindrance.

Same with the other superior characters in brawl. Brawl is simply less suit for competitive play as some other fighting games. This arguement proves this.

I agree metaknight is broken. But metaknight rules brawl. Which is brawl.
When you start going down this road, MK wont be the only character who will get the ban hammer. And with characters gone, more, or less, stages will get banned and all of brawl will change. In a way it will become a more balanced game, I understand, but there will always be a character ruling the game. Which is inevitable. So why not just let MK do that.

In short, banning characters crosses the line. Instead of going down that road, its best to just declare brawl not tourny viable. Not because of the trouble it will cause, but because its kind of a dead end road.

 

[o-Serin-o]

He has a point. Plus he stole mah color.

 

[Scipion121212]

He has a point. Plus he stole mah color.

Which one do you mean? (And me or he do have a point? :D )

First of all, as this is a point of discussion, saying I, in this case, are by default wrong, or talk down to me, doesnt win you the arguement.

Snake is broken too. Though he has harder matchups than metaknight, which will probably be a counter arguement for this statement, but as you say metaknight breaks some, or alot, of feutures in competitive brawl, and for that should be banned, than snake must be banned too, according to your logic, as he breaks certain aspects too, albeit, less aspects. But still enough to be a hindrance.

Same with the other superior characters in brawl. Brawl is simply less suit for competitive play as some other fighting games. This arguement proves this.

I agree metaknight is broken. But metaknight rules brawl. Which is brawl.
When you start going down this road, MK wont be the only character who will get the ban hammer. And with characters gone, more, or less, stages will get banned and all of brawl will change. In a way it will become a more balanced game, I understand, but there will always be a character ruling the game. Which is inevitable. So why not just let MK do that.

In short, banning characters crosses the line. Instead of going down that road, its best to just declare brawl not tourny viable. Not because of the trouble it will cause, but because its kind of a dead end road.

I am actually not talking to you that all you write is by default wrong, I am talking to you as what you WROTE was wrong, but not by default. I f you don´t feel like that, sorry, if I can explain that away, it is because my english isn´t good by any means. =)

the highlighted part is one that bugs me most - what aspects of brawl he breakes? Don´t forget, that by my logic (and I hope you agree with my logic too - if not, write me what you don´t like about it ), he breakes counterpick system only if he has only 0 bad stages and 0 bad matchups. You actually could argue that these mantinels are biased so that only metaknight fits them, but as I see it otherwise it doesn´t "break" counterpick system with other characters/stages being able to counterpick him.

 

[Zeallyx]

I am actually not talking to you that all you write is by default wrong, I am talking to you as what you WROTE was wrong, but not by default. I f you don´t feel like that, sorry, if I can explain that away, it is because my english isn´t good by any means. =)

Alright. I understand.

the highlighted part is one that bugs me most - what aspects of brawl he breakes? Don´t forget, that by my logic (and I hope you agree with my logic too - if not, write me what you don´t like about it ), he breakes counterpick system only if he has only 0 bad stages and 0 bad matchups. You actually could argue that these mantinels are biased so that only metaknight fits them, but as I see it otherwise it doesn´t "break" counterpick system with other characters/stages being able to counterpick him.

Snake also makes it hard for the most bottom/low tier characters to place (well), and this was also one of the points of your part of the discussion (that MK made it hard/impossible for bottom tier chars to place). Snake does this too.

Snakes broken tilts and almost endless potential due to his arsenal (plus his C4 recovery) make him an obviously better character than the rest. (Same for the other superior characters, as they do rule brawl, with or without MK).

With MK gone, Snakes tilts will be the new whorenado. And I know snake has worse overal matchups as MK, but that doesnt take away the fact that he is a hard matchup for alot of characters.

Banning MK only transfers the problem brawl has. Brawl isnt very suited for competitive play, again, this conversation proves just that. And banning a character (and in this case, it wont stop at just one character) crosses the line.

Brawl has a character/characters that 'rule' the competitive scene. As this is a fact, it isnt really MK's fault, its just brawl =P

 

[Darxmarth23]

He has a point. Plus he stole mah color.

wtf?

No.

It was mine long before your face was here *****
i gave it to him

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

 

[Noodlehead]

this discussion is going in circles.
so scipion's point is that mk is breaks many aspects of the game such as counterpick system and should be banned.

mk should be banned due to many reasons

why ban mk ?
simple hes cheap.
how?
he can't be gimped, his recovery is too good. he clearly has no bad matchups, except maybe 1 or 2 out of the whole cast which is 36 characters. lol, planking, they found a different way to plank instead of ledge planking . air planking, it sucks it makes mk almost impossible to beat. he is dominant , he holds 1/4th of tournament placings and hes just one character. thats pretty amazing. he is also holding other characters back from winning or even placing at tournaments. scipion is right, mk is a plague. some people pick him up just to counter mk. i guess because he is hard to beat with any other cahracter. he is extremely hard to punish. his moves come out too fast, have little lag, and have priority. not to mention he has the best airdodge in the game. mk is simply broken and should be banned, sakurai should be banned too.

tkontk is basically saying that banning mk wont solve anything. that snake is also somewhat broken and if mk is banned snake will be the new mk and we will be complaining about that.

Alright. I understand.



Snake also makes it hard for the most bottom/low tier characters to place (well), and this was also one of the points of your part of the discussion (that MK made it hard/impossible for bottom tier chars to place). Snake does this too.

snake does make it harder for other characters to place but mk makes it even harder. as said before he breaks the cp system making it even harder to compete against him. there is no stage/ character you can counter him against. as for snake you can actually counter against. besides snake is way easier than mk.



Snakes broken tilts and almost endless potential due to his arsenal (plus his C4 recovery) make him an obviously better character than the rest. (Same for the other superior characters, as they do rule brawl, with or without MK).

mk cheapness>snake cheapness
just to let you know mk's recovery is MUCH MUCH MUCH (put capitols and repeated to show emphasis ) better than snake's. mk has so many recovery moves that is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to be gimped. snake on the other hand has what, one. well, you know what it is cypher, not really a problem. it can actually be gimped, and is pretty is to predict if you ask me. you only listed that his tilts and recovery are broken, which they aren't but anyways mk has a much longer list of reasons to be banned.

With MK gone, Snakes tilts will be the new whorenado. And I know snake has worse overal matchups as MK, but that doesnt take away the fact that he is a hard matchup for alot of characters.


Banning MK only transfers the problem brawl has. Brawl isnt very suited for competitive play, again, this conversation proves just that. And banning a character (and in this case, it wont stop at just one character) crosses the line.

i can guarantee you that if mk is banned that snake will not be be banned this goes for any other character. mk is on a whole different level. here is the criteria they made to banning something in the game. snake does not meet the criteria.
which are:
[1] That aspect of the game must be so different from everything else in the game that it is an alien to the rest of the game.
[2] That aspect of the game must decrease the quality of every aspect of Brawl.

no more using snake as counter argument please

Brawl has a character/characters that 'rule' the competitive scene. As this is a fact, it isnt really MK's fault, its just brawl =P

correct me if im wrong, responses in white in quote

edit:
falcon boards statistics
3 anti bans vs 3 pro bans

no one is helping you discuss :/

 

[Scipion121212]

noodle:
this isnt going in circles. anyway, reserved to tommorow.
so here we go, Im here, not that much to post however..

I don´t think metaknight is bannable because he make 99% of low tier unviable (if you want to rise lionmans tourney, lets just say there obviously weren´t good MKs). he is bannable because he theoretically make whole high and top tier unviable! But because this is too close to shaky theorycrafting I will try to elude it.
Let´s just say he breakes counterpick system...
...
AND low tiers.

He is bannable not because crushing low tiers, he is bannable because he breakes counterpick system.
Snake can only do latter (and he does it worse than MK) but not the former, for which MK is bannable, so snake isn´t bannable, even if we would ban MK.

So, I hope I made clear my opinion about chainbanning. If you disagree with some of my points, post what bugs you about them

I don´t think I have anything more to say right now, just imagine how great brawl W/O MK would be! :D

P3: I would remove plural from most important in this thread and... I think you know (hint:"I am"! :O)

 

[Player-3]

hey guys
i am about to say the most important words in this whole thread

*****

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

no u

10 chars

 

[Sukai]

He has a point. Plus he stole mah color.

You don't post in red, at least not on the Snake boards!

 

[Scipion121212]

bump

post above updated, everyone should read it!

 

[Zeallyx]

noodle:
this isnt going in circles. anyway, reserved to tommorow.
so here we go, Im here, not that much to post however..

I don´t think metaknight is bannable because he make 99% of low tier unviable (if you want to rise lionmans tourney, lets just say there obviously weren´t good MKs). he is bannable because he theoretically make whole high and top tier unviable! But because this is too close to shaky theorycrafting I will try to elude it.
Let´s just say he breakes counterpick system...
...
AND low tiers.

He is bannable not because crushing low tiers, he is bannable because he breakes counterpick system.
Snake can only do latter (and he does it worse than MK) but not the former, for which MK is bannable, so snake isn´t bannable, even if we would ban MK.

So, I hope I made clear my opinion about chainbanning. If you disagree with some of my points, post what bugs you about them

I don´t think I have anything more to say right now, just imagine how great brawl W/O MK would be! :D

P3: I would remove plural from most important in this thread and... I think you know (hint:"I am"! :O)

No offense intended in what I am about to say, offcourse

You dont see brawl as a whole. Everyone has their main, everyone has their personal experience. Banning metaknight, apart from the chainbanning, which I am still pretty certain that will happen, is..how should I put this..too drastic, and, yes, unfair.

MK's metagame has developed beyond belief. It developed in a way we supposedly cant get around it, and it breaks the counterpick system. Again, brawls shortcomings come into play, as its just less suitable for competitive play, but aside from that, MK mains, good MK mains, will be left behind. Real good MK mains mained him before tier list V1. And thats where the social aspect of banning him makes it, simply put, unfair.

But offcourse, I understand, this isnt top priority in this discussion, so I will like to add that brawl without metaknight isnt brawl. It will be a game which neeeded to drastic changes to be more suitable for competitive play. And dont get me wrong, even without MK it will not really be suited as a competitive fighting game.

it will be be:
snake/falco/DDD/GaW>all.
With few exeptions wich will make some other characters more viable due to their matchup vs said superior characters.

Probably still only 8 to 10 chars out of the 39 selectable from the character select screen will be really tourny viable. Banning MK wont change that.

And with banning MK the counter picking system will still not be completely saved. (And saving it completely is what people are going for, as this is a quite black and white matter. Meaning, if the counterpicking system isnt completely saved, then it has no use, as it will still not work completely.

 

[SuSa]

The issue is that we only really have 2 characters that are truly viable...

Just looking at Ankoku's Tournament Results screams "If you are not MK or Snake, don't expect to win"

Also what "chainbanning"? If you are going to argue the slipper slope argument I've lost a lot of respect for you....


and I'm anti-ban <_< FYI

 

[Zeallyx]

The issue is that we only really have 2 characters that are truly viable...

Just looking at Ankoku's Tournament Results screams "If you are not MK or Snake, don't expect to win"

Also what "chainbanning"? If you are going to argue the slipper slope argument I've lost a lot of respect for you....


and I'm anti-ban <_< FYI

I dont understand why, but if you feel that way.. I dont mind.

Also, In short: If there are always characters that will rule brawl, why not just let it be snake and MK.

Banning MK only relocates the problem. Which isnt what you guys (the pro-ban people) are going for anyway, but it is what will happen. So why bother.

 

[Red-Blue]

becuz mk is cheap cuz everyelse says so lets **** up dat poll

 

[Player-3]

The issue is that we only really have 2 characters that are truly viable...

Just looking at Ankoku's Tournament Results screams "If you are not MK or Snake, don't expect to win"

Also what "chainbanning"? If you are going to argue the slipper slope argument I've lost a lot of respect for you....


and I'm anti-ban <_< FYI

LOL

HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE EVEN SAY BRAWL IN ITSELF IS TOURNAMENT VIABLE

i mean its a fun game and all

but it sucks **** for a competitive scene

 

[Zeallyx]

LOL

HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE EVEN SAY BRAWL IN ITSELF IS TOURNAMENT VIABLE

i mean its a fun game and all

but it sucks **** for a competitive scene

Seconded.

obligatorycharacters

 

[Scipion121212]

No offense intended in what I am about to say, offcourse

You dont see brawl as a whole. Everyone has their main, everyone has their personal experience. Banning metaknight, apart from the chainbanning, which I am still pretty certain that will happen, is..how should I put this..too drastic, and, yes, unfair.

MK's metagame has developed beyond belief. It developed in a way we supposedly cant get around it, and it breaks the counterpick system. Again, brawls shortcomings come into play, as its just less suitable for competitive play, but aside from that, MK mains, good MK mains, will be left behind. Real good MK mains mained him before tier list V1. And thats where the social aspect of banning him makes it, simply put, unfair.

But offcourse, I understand, this isnt top priority in this discussion, so I will like to add that brawl without metaknight isnt brawl. It will be a game which neeeded to drastic changes to be more suitable for competitive play. And dont get me wrong, even without MK it will not really be suited as a competitive fighting game.

it will be be:
snake/falco/DDD/GaW>all.
With few exeptions wich will make some other characters more viable due to their matchup vs said superior characters.

Probably still only 8 to 10 chars out of the 39 selectable from the character select screen will be really tourny viable. Banning MK wont change that.

And with banning MK the counter picking system will still not be completely saved. (And saving it completely is what people are going for, as this is a quite black and white matter. Meaning, if the counterpicking system isnt completely saved, then it has no use, as it will still not work completely.

Yeah, right, thats true, poor MK mains.. havent really thought of that
Chainbanning is imo very easily avoidable, as I pointed above, so noi point in explaining it.

8-10 is VERY solid number, and I would find it personally more satisfying than 2/3 (maybe DDD.. not sure).

What do you mean that counterpick system wouldnt be saved? It would actually work, hey, that would be nice

It is true that Brawl without MK isn´t brawl anymore, but is it brawl now anyway? no. It is brawl without stalling, excessive planking, IDC, and MANY stages. And items. I dont see losing MK as a huge change to brawl.

And wtf is slippery slope argument? O_o

EDIT:

I dont understand why, but if you feel that way.. I dont mind.

Also, In short: If there are always characters that will rule brawl, why not just let it be snake and MK.

I dont think you can really say MK and snake, more like MK and ally, but it depends how you put it.. So yeah, ignore it. This isn´t 100% sure argument I am going for :D

 

[Zeallyx]

Yeah, right, thats true, poor MK mains.. havent really thought of that
Chainbanning is imo very easily avoidable, as I pointed above, so noi point in explaining it.

8-10 is VERY solid number, and I would find it personally more satisfying than 2/3 (maybe DDD.. not sure).

What do you mean that counterpick system wouldnt be saved? It would actually work, hey, that would be nice

It is true that Brawl without MK isn´t brawl anymore, but is it brawl now anyway? no. It is brawl without stalling, excessive planking, IDC, and MANY stages. And items. I dont see losing MK as a huge change to brawl.

And wtf is slippery slope argument? O_o

EDIT:

I dont think you can really say MK and snake, more like MK and ally, but it depends how you put it.. So yeah, ignore it. This isn´t 100% sure argument I am going for :D

What I bolded in your post is not cool man. Dont talk down to me. I dont talk down to you either.

8-10 is still not a competitive game. (out of 39).

This also answers your counterpicking question. As it is limited to those (give or take) ten characters, then there is a very very limited counterpicking system. Which still makes it a rather moot point.

And MK is brawls best character. And brawl without MK, along with all the other strategies, stages and techniques that are banned/restricted, makes adding MK to that list cross the line. If one wants to take that step, you can just give brawl itself the banhammer from competitive play.

Brawl will never be the competitive game the pro-ban people are going for. Again, its a dead end road.

 

[Scipion121212]

Sorry, didnt want to sound like talking down you.
This discussion is useless.
My point just being is that 8-10 is better than 2 and no counterpick system<counterpick systerm.
Thats all.

EDIT: and what is slippery slope argument? O_o

 

[Zeallyx]

Sorry, didnt want to sound like talking down you.
This discussion is useless.
My point just being is that 8-10 is better than 2 and no counterpick system<counterpick systerm.
Thats all.

EDIT: and what is slippery slope argument? O_o

Alright.

And my point is:
8-10 characters doesnt solve the problem the pro-ban people try to solve.
And and that without MK the counterpick system is still not what it should be. Not even close to what it should be at that.

And I guess the 'slippery slope arguement' is the arguement when one says that banning MK is the end of brawl (as in: all goes 'down the slope' from there.).
I'm not sure at all though.

 

[Scipion121212]

Alright.

And my point is:
8-10 characters doesnt solve the problem the pro-ban people try to solve.

pro-ban try to revive counterpick system, doesn´t it? In my eyes it is solved by having 8-10 characters (that is huge number!)

 

[Zeallyx]

pro-ban try to revive counterpick system, doesn´t it? In my eyes it is solved by having 8-10 characters (that is huge number!)

It is not a huge number.
And most will have 35-65 to 55-45 matchups against eachother..
Which makes the counterpick system flawed. Even without MK.

Its not MK, its brawl.

 

[Scipion121212]

And most will have 35-65 to 55-45 matchups against eachother..

I thought that this is how counterpick system works >_>
Anyway, it is just an opinion whether it is or isn´t huge number, I would quit argument about this.