Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[IndigoSSB]

We can still order them right?
5:

+ I honestly would have voted for Robin to move up, especially with the new patch, but without results it remains theorycrafting. For anybody not sure who to vote for, I feel Marth, Toon Link, and Robin are the more notable one out of the group.

 

[atreyujames]

5:

-1.
+1.

I think every single week I was here for the past stage of voting I was voting robin down =P maybe this time it'll stick

 

[Bowserboy3]

For those unsure of the voting phase...

Browny updates the original post every time. Go back and check there for the rules.

The rules this time are order the characters in tier 5, and choose 2 to be promoted or demoted. Simple (I think, I hope that's right).

 

[Bowserboy3]

My Votes:



+1
+1

I think these 2 deserve to be up a tier. Toon Link ideally somewhere in the middle of tier 4 in my opinion. Marth somewhere near the bottom of it. If we take my votes for example, if those two were moved up, then Lucina would be at the top of tier 5, meaning there would only be a few spaces between Marth and her, but the tier gap signifies that there is a difference between them.

If I had another vote, I'd actually probably vote Robin up. Robin has great tools, as many people have explained already, but regarding matchups (which is important when talking tier lists), because of his slow speed and mobility, he struggles against characters with lots of speed and ability to combo, where as Marth and Toon Link don't have this much of an issue for example. Still, the top 4 I have listed I think are very close to each other. In fact, this tier was quite hard for me to order.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

3 - 0 means nothing to you? If Doc is so terrible, then how come ESAM couldn't deal with him as Pikachu? You're seriously claiming that he lost 3 to nothing simply because he didn't know how to deal with Doc?

I'm not saying he's god tier, I'm saying he's mid tier, or even high-mid tier.



True, Mario has a lot of things going for him because of his speed and combo abilities, but Doc can stand on his own as well, just not at the same level as Mario. Funny enough, Doc is a weird matchup for Mario, as he can cancel out most of his dthrow combos with nair or up B, while Mario can't really break out of dthrow to up B/up air because of the added knockback Doc's dthrow has. It's apparently an even match up, but I just find it funny how Mario has a strange time against Doc.

A buff on Doc's mobility or adding more hitstun to his up air so it can be comboed into Up B would be great. Doc needs a bit of a better mobility to truly shine.

MikeKirby has beat LarryLurr in a Bo5, so Kirby is high-mid? ESAM didn't know the MU (considering Nairo landed d-throw f-air for kills it is pretty clear) and didn't play against Dr. Mario right. Who does Dr. Mario beat to make him high-mid? Please enlighten me on his good MUs (here's a tip, say Pikachu is good/even with Dr. Mario I can't listen to your opinion). If ESAM played right, he would be using Pikachu's amazing gimp ability to kill Dr. Mario every stock, but he didn't because of lack of MU knowledge.

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

+Seriously, give him a really good and dedicated player, and plays will be made. It's all about training and knowing you MUs
- (Anti-hate shield activated)

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

+1 we needed those buffs
-1 has nothing going for her.(should be in tier 7 imo) Prepares for the h8

 

[DarkK]

MikeKirby has beat LarryLurr in a Bo5, so Kirby is high-mid? ESAM didn't know the MU (considering Nairo landed d-throw f-air for kills it is pretty clear) and didn't play against Dr. Mario right. Who does Dr. Mario beat to make him high-mid? Please enlighten me on his good MUs (here's a tip, say Pikachu is good/even with Dr. Mario I can't listen to your opinion). If ESAM played right, he would be using Pikachu's amazing gimp ability to kill Dr. Mario every stock, but he didn't because of lack of MU knowledge.

ESAM is who knocked Nairo into the losers bracket, and Nairo did go Doc in that one as well. Tell me again, how did he not know the match up? I wanna hear you explain that.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

ESAM is who knocked Nairo into the losers bracket, and Nairo did go Doc in that one as well. Tell me again, how did he not know the match up? I wanna hear you explain that.

now that Nairo exposed docs potential on the big stage, I think doc combo vids and tips are going to be floating around more. I think Nairo chose doc against Pika was
1. ZSS Aireals are too short for pika
2. Esam was struggling with a doc on a stream earlier
3. FOR GLORY B O Y Z

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

-1 Doc (What I think of him is the bottom of this tier, but I gotta downvote him to stop the ****storm of upvotes because of nairo)

-1 Kirby (also might get upvoted a lot)

 

[DarkK]

now that Nairo exposed docs potential on the big stage, I think doc combo vids and tips are going to be floating around more. I think Nairo chose doc against Pika was
1. ZSS Aireals are too short for pika
2. Esam was struggling with a doc on a stream earlier
3. FOR GLORY B O Y Z

So Nario was spying on him? lol

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

ESAM is who knocked Nairo into the losers bracket, and Nairo did go Doc in that one as well. Tell me again, how did he not know the match up? I wanna hear you explain that.

You can win and not know the MU. Do you really think knowing an MU takes about 6-7 short games? If so, I doubt you're anything more than an FG scrub. Learning an MU is harder than just "oh k he has moves" it's more of how to counter Dr. Mario's strategies, how to edge-guard him properly, how to DI his combos properly and how to punish his moves optimally. An MU can't be learned in 2 sets.

 

[DarkK]

You can win and not know the MU. Do you really think knowing an MU takes about 6-7 short games? If so, I doubt you're anything more than an FG scrub. Learning an MU is harder than just "oh k he has moves" it's more of how to counter Dr. Mario's strategies, how to edge-guard him properly, how to DI his combos properly and how to punish his moves optimally. An MU can't be learned in 2 sets.

Gee, easy with the name calling, pal. You're the one who keeps claiming that gimping Doc is super easy, so why didn't ESAM just do that?

 

[lbrasz44]

+1 I'm a broken record at this point, but gotta vote for G&W again
+1 Along with G&W I'd say WFT is one of the more underrated characters who would be at home in the front end of tier 4.

 

[atreyujames]

-1 Doc (What I think of him is the bottom of this tier, but I gotta downvote him to stop the ****storm of upvotes because of nairo)

I didn't know that Male Wii Fit Trainer was that much better than Female

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Gee, easy with the name calling, pal. You're the one who keeps claiming that gimping Doc is super easy, so why didn't ESAM just do that?

I didn't claim Doc is easy, I said he's easy to gimp (which is true, and it's what ESAM wasn't doing) Esam barely even tried to do it, so it's not like he just failed every time. I only said you're an FG scrub because you think learning an MU is as easy as 2 sets, and have still given no proof on why Doc is high-mid.

 

[Equin0x]

5:

+

 

[Zerp]

Spoiler: Reference

1:

2:

3:

4: ( ) ////
I honestly feel like tier 4 should be split in half, Greninja's half (save Roy/MM) isn't as viable as Olimar's half in my opinion. Isn't going to happen anytime soon though .

5:

6: (LOCKED)

7: (LOCKED)

+1
+1

 

[Bowserboy3]

Why are people still leaving such a huge gap between Marth and Lucina? Their differences don't actually separate them that much? Like maybe one or 2 places. Geez...

 

[Cyclone_]

Why are people still leaving such a huge gap between Marth and Lucina? Their differences don't actually separate them that much? Like maybe one or 2 places. Geez...

Marth and lucina are both not very good.

 

[Xandercosm]

5:

+1 Don't let da Kirbster die...
+1 Wayyyy better than people think.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Marth and lucina are both not very good.

Straight up saying they are not very good is just an opinion. For example, where as many people can agree that Zelda is in the bottom 3 in the game, players are divided on Marth and Lucina. Some players consider Marth a very solid mid character, others consider him bad just because he was nerfed. The point I am getting at is that they deserve to be very close to each other, as they are not that different at all. If you consider Marth good, then Lucina is good, that sort of thing.

 

[Zerp]

Why are people still leaving such a huge gap between Marth and Lucina? Their differences don't actually separate them that much? Like maybe one or 2 places. Geez...

I can't speak for the others but I'm supporting Marth being a tier higher than Lucina because I believe Lucina's benefits over Marth like her increased overall damage and combo potential still don't make up for the lack of Marth's tipper. It doesn't matter much to me if she does more damage than nontippered Marth when a Marth that spaces themselves reasonably well should be able to land far more tippers than nontippers. I see how Lucina doesn't have to commit to spacing as much, and is more free to play in a aggressive style but I just don't think she holds a candle to Marth's tipper. That's how I see it, but feel free to disagree with me.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I can't speak for the others but I'm supporting Marth being a tier higher than Lucina because I believe Lucina's benefits over Marth like her increased overall damage and combo potential still don't make up for the lack of Marth's tipper. It doesn't matter much to me if she does more damage than nontippered Marth when a Marth that spaces themselves reasonably well should be able to land far more tippers than nontippers. I see how Lucina doesn't have to commit to spacing as much, and is more free to play in a aggressive style but I just don't think she holds a candle to Marth's tipper. That's how I see it, but feel free to disagree with me.

Fair enough, but tipper aside, they do exactly the same thing as eachother. Still, that's just your opinion, same as how I have mine.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

One vote for Toon Link to jump up a tier.

 

[Scamper52596]

+1 He's been placing high enough in too many recent tournaments to consider him tier 5 material. He belongs in tier 4.
+1 This character has plenty of great and unique tools to work with along with a pretty decent combo game.

 

[Cyclone_]

Straight up saying they are not very good is just an opinion. For example, where as many people can agree that Zelda is in the bottom 3 in the game, players are divided on Marth and Lucina. Some players consider Marth a very solid mid character, others consider him bad just because he was nerfed. The point I am getting at is that they deserve to be very close to each other, as they are not that different at all. If you consider Marth good, then Lucina is good, that sort of thing.

As you can see from previous posts of mine i know what i'm talking about when it comes to marth i have mained him since the game came out and therefore know how to play lucina. marth is a league above lucina 100% because of the tippers. lucina can kill with an uncharged smash on lighter characters at around 120 at the side of the stage marth can kill with a tipper uncharged at around 40-50 there is a clear difference is viability but in saying this marth is not that good because of his landing lag and just ending lag in general (down air pls), they both just are not that good.

 

[HerpFish]

+The projectile game with this character is great, especially with some of the amazing bomb setups. He also has good enough speed and attack power to land KO's and survive in close quarters.
+Wii Fit Trainers have been doing a lot, leading me to believe that he/she is a cut above the rest of this tier.

Side note: I'm liking the general consensus on the Bowser Jr. placements. He is good enough to get amazing combos in the hands of a very skilled player, but he generally requires flat-out outplaying the opponent to win a lot of the higher tier matchups. I can see where people could argue for him moving up with the results from Tweek, but Tweek is just an amazing player with, unfortunately, a rather lackluster character when compared to the top characters.

 

[TimG57867]

Say Browny , when does this voting phase end? Don't want to vote to soon or late.

 

[Wintermelon43]

5:

+1

-1

Edit:Wait, can vote two characters up or two characters down? If so, than I wanna vote Bowser Jr. Up instead of Game & Watch Down

 

[Routa]

+ (reasons stated long time ago)

- (I just hate to spend my votes to balance some of the voting, but seriously guys... Even the top Kirby players think he is bad. Why can't you just accept it? He has poor results, Ok frame data and Okish at best MU spread. He is nowhere near as good as Tink or Waifus)

Others that I would vote if I had more votes:

+ (Has the theory, framedata and results to raise his spot in tier list, but in my opinion Marth and Lucina need the votes now)

-

(What I think of him is the bottom of this tier, but I gotta downvote him to stop the ****storm of upvotes because of nairo)

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I feel like the majority of these characters should move either up or down.



+1
+1

 

[Bowserboy3]

As you can see from previous posts of mine i know what i'm talking about when it comes to marth i have mained him since the game came out and therefore know how to play lucina. marth is a league above lucina 100% because of the tippers. lucina can kill with an uncharged smash on lighter characters at around 120 at the side of the stage marth can kill with a tipper uncharged at around 40-50 there is a clear difference is viability but in saying this marth is not that good because of his landing lag and just ending lag in general (down air pls), they both just are not that good.

I don't want to sound like I am picking fault or start an arguement or anything, but you claim to know about Marth, yet know nothing about Lucina.

For the record, I went and did some tests. I went to training, and used Final Destination as the stage. Marth first, with Jiggly as the test dummy. I used the starting position on FD every time in these tests, to see exactly what percents the moves kill at. I also used optimal DI. Marth's Tipper F-smash killed Jiggly at her starting position in training with optimal DI at 47%. I did the same for Lucina, and she killed with her F-smash at 75%, so you are clearly misinformed about Lucina. Factor in this was training mode where Rage is not present, and both these can kill earlier in matches. For comparison, I tested a few other characters to make a comparison. Yoshi killed at 80% with his F-smash, and Falcon killed at 71%, so in reality, Lucina's F-smash is actually very powerful. Marth no longer has the severe lag issues he had at the start of the game. He has more lag than he used to have in past games, but it's not game breaking this time. Worse than before, but workable. Their main problem is limited follow ups in my opinion. Give them better throws.

 

[atreyujames]

+ (reasons stated long time ago)

Others that I would vote if I had more votes:

+ (Has the theory, framedata and results to raise his spot in tier list, but in my opinion Marth and Lucina need the votes now)

This is what F'd up tier 6's voting. A tie isn't going to mean that both move up. If you think Tink is better than Marth, why are you voting to get Marth into a higher tier but not Tink. It makes 0 sense

 

[ShadowGuy1]

tha(kill me wintermelon)

+1 (Bottom of Tier 4 is PERFECT for her)
+1 >

 

[IndigoSSB]

I didn't use my second vote yet, so here it is

+ She was one of the biggest winners of the last patch, but there was not enough time for her to move up the list. As a character with a lot of attacks with electric property her attacks become much more safe on shield. Not only that, because Arcthunder is both a multihit and a electric based move it's become even more useful as a tool to attack shields and get grabs.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

This is what F'd up tier 6's voting. A tie isn't going to mean that both move up. If you think Tink is better than Marth, why are you voting to get Marth into a higher tier but not Tink. It makes 0 sense

Limited Votes

 

[Deleted member]

5:
+1
-1

 

[Nessimator]

5:

+1 (Good zoning and up-close game, has some pretty good kill set-ups too)
+1 (Great combo game, low end-lag/landing-lag on plenty of moves, good off-stage, kinda has a kill throw, small hurt-box)

 

[Zeth444]

5.

Im really ok with this to be honest.