[Super Smash Land] - Final Build 1.1 Online

[Shorts]

I'm just curious, with this engine how many characters are POSSIBLE? (Not saying you should make more or anything)

 

[BigLord]

^4nace answered you in the 21st page:

@Shortie
Jaklub is right, there is no restriction, but to keep it a believable gameboy game, i am restricting the roster to 6 characters.

i.e. you can have as many characters as you'd like, the game would simply get bigger and not look much like a gameboy game anymore, lol

 

[Luxor]

Biglord, are you running 10ppp? It's only on page 9 with 40ppp lol.

 

[BigLord]

Yea, in here it's Page 22, lol. I kinda like it better this way *shrug*

 

[jamiejame911]

DLed and contributed! Great game thus far. The options for other chars are endless, but I hope Samus and either Fox or Pit are implemented. A big/evil character like Bowser would be fitting thou.

 

[Luxor]

The last two characters are already decided, but not revealed yet.

 

[jamiejame911]

The only issue I have thus far is with the vs screen (right before the battle) where it shows the big portrait of the characters facing off on each side of the screen; Link's looks a lil off. The other three look like they came straight from Nintendo artists, but Link doesn't look right with the face and arms. I think another official Nintendo image copied would fit him better.

 

[Ultimortal]

I'm just curious, with this engine how many characters are POSSIBLE? (Not saying you should make more or anything)

I may misunderstand what you're asking, but it's not a fighting game engine - he's making it from scratch, so it's infinite.

Haven't tried the latest version yet, just the first of the Link+Pika releases. But I'll add that Mario's tornado and Fair are really good, though Fair often has to be done in a combo so as not to be interrupted... it's tough but very satisfying to use.

By the way 4nace, after the game's done, are you planning on updating it for character balance tweaks? Not saying you should, as it seems a little overkill (they already feel fine).

Edit: Also I agree with jamiejame911, Link doesn't look right with that beefy arm.

 

[BigLord]

Have you guys ever seen some Gameboy art in-game? They look awful!

Hehe, j/k. I also think Link looks kinda strange, but I seriously don't mind it. 4nace has more important things to work on right now.

 

[Shorts]

What engine are you using in this? I have my senior project coming up and I was planning on being a cheap skate and just Programming a game via Mugen. But if this game wasn't extremely difficult, then I would like to do a smash more so then do a traditional fighting game.

 

[4nace]

@Luxor

Thanks alot for the balance post. It is very appreciated. I will look into ways of making Kirby's Forward Air more useable. Thanks for the compliments on Link. I am very happy with how he turned out and the 5th character is starting to feel very unique similar to Link.
As for Mario, I'll play with the Fair hitbox a bit, but I don't know if the speed should be faster. Right now it is not too difficult to hit with and it does kill off stage around like 70% if you can place it well. As for Pika, yeah I think he could use a jab move, I just gotta decide where would be best to put it. Usmash is fast, but does not feel like a jab. I think back air right now is one of Pika's best moves, so I am not sure why you think it is too slow. I could try speeding it up just a bit to see how it feels though.

As for crouch cancelling, after you told me the idea months ago, I did actually implement it. It may just be hard to tell, but right now, what it does is if you are ducking when you get hit, it decreases the angle of knockback by 30 degrees and the knockback time to .75. It is actually very useful for not only surviving moves like brick or link's chain, but it is also good for ducking under aerials. If you just didn't notice because it is not stark enough of a change, then let me know and I can adjust it.

@jamiejame911
Thank you very much for your support. I am making up little tokens of appreciation so expect something in the mail in a couple of months =). Also as for the Link image that you and Ultimortal have brought up, I have already planned to change it haha. The problem is that the other 3 i used nintendo reference while with Link, I just kinda drew it without reference so that's why it ended up that way.

@Ultimortal
I actually probably will do a few balance releases after the game comes out. I think that when there are 6 characters, there may be some strategies that make match-ups impossible so I will probably do little tweaks for a few weeks after. I think I will probably leave the game closed source though.

@ShortieCanBrawl
I can say right now that you have not programmed before, then a smash engine in Game Maker will be pretty difficult. Creating characters in M.U.G.E.N. is not easy either. I would see if you could get away with just doing a few mockups for games instead of actually creating them if it is only for a class.

-4nace

 

[BigLord]

Btw, just to be completely clear: the engine is stated somewhere on the game, I think on the intro screen.

It's Gamemaker 7.

 

[Luxor]

@Luxor

crouch cancelling

I didn't even know! Brb crouch cancelling aerials

EDIT: Crouch cancelling is good, but I wouldn't object to it being stronger.

Also, I think Pika deserves more credit than I gave him before. Fair is a great approach, Usmash is superfast and functions great as a combo starter/jab/killer. Usmash-->Thunder is boss. Also, I realized Bair isn't a poking bair like Kirby's or Mario's, but more of a Uair thanks to its great vertical hitbox. It's his main aerial combo tool- Usmash, Bair, and Thunder are his bread and butter (thunder mostly for kills). Quick attack is actually surprisingly useful at moving around stage- if I was playing on a controller instead of a keyboard it would be amazing, but as it is its just good.

Pikachu and Link are the most fun to play imo. Kirby is still viable (maybe not as much as the other two, now that I think about it) but he's kind of boring because you have to camp for those Bair's so much- there's really never a reason to use something that's not Bair lol. Mario is funner than Kirby but not as fun as the other two; he feels maybe a little neglected. I think he actually needs a faster dash attack more than Fair, now. And by faster I mean a faster cooldown- he could use a good way to approach.

 

[Shorts]

@4nace

I'll stick with Mugen. I know my way around that. I'll try to actually create a character for a game this summer sometime. (I plan on going to either OIT PSU, AI, or ITT tech for videogame design. So I might as well mess around with it.)

 

[jamiejame911]

From my limited time with the game I think Link and Kirby are the strongest. Pika plays a bit differently than the other 3, so maybe seeing him in action by someone who is using him to his potential would help, but Link and Kirby, at first notice, seem to have everything you need to win.

 

[Luxor]

Pika's gameplay is quite different, but I main him now anyway lol. Basically you just Usmash all day long. At low percents, Usmash--> crouch cancel their counter-->Usmash or Fair works well. At mid percents, Usmash--> Bair juggle using Bair's crazy vertical hitbox. Fsmash punishes easily read landings, and Fair is a good approach. Kills come from Usmash-->Thunder or from the following. While on the ground under a platform at highish percents, Usmash. Jump, QA up, then down. You should be standing on the platform with your opponent in hitstun right above you. Usmash again, then Thunder. 5 hit win combo :D
Quick Attack is actually pretty good at comboing once you can control it well enough to land it. Landing it on the ground really isn't too laggy but puts the target in plenty of hitstun.

 

[4nace]

@Luxor

Sounds like your pikachu is getting pretty close to the level that my friends and I are at. We have USB controllers so its not too difficult to have Quick Attack as a solid part of the moveset for us.


@jamiejame911

Yeah, i think Link and Kirby are the easiest to pickup. The 5th character is not very easy to pick up either but as you play more, i think the characters get more balanced (at least i hope so haha).

Also, i may record a pika video on a new stage as a teaser if I get the song from my sound guy =)

I also managed to use glovepie from http://glovepie.org/ to get wiimotes to work for smash land with my laptop since it is bluetooth enabled.

Here is a zip of the file with an included script for smash land.
GlovePie with Smash Land Script

If you are having trouble getting your wiimotes to connect to the bluetooth, try googling it. Also, make sure you run the glovepie script AFTER you have found the device. =)

Let me know if anyone gets it to work haha.

-4nace

 

[BigLord]

Glovepie is awesome, thanks for supporting it now, man.

Too bad my laptop doesn't support blutooth, bah.

 

[4nace]

Hey Guys

So it's been a while since I made a post and I have some updates to share but nothing really to show since pretty much everything will be unlockable and secret when the demo is released.

The 5th character is done programming, and implemented. In balance tests, it is becoming aware that he/she/it is not quite finished yet but is getting very close. I have also started spriting the 6th character and have finished all the general movements and am working to plan out attacks.

As for stages, I will announce one of the secret stages - Battlefield, which is where the endless mode will take place. I have finished the stage, inspired by the n64 polygon team stage. I have started work on endless mode, but it is not quite ready yet. I think you will unlock it by unlocking the two secret characters (which I will make sure is hard but not too hard).

The game is being pulled back a bit, as other than endless mode, I think I might leave Arcade Mode the way it is. I want to do a Master Hand, but am not sure if I will have time to get it done in time for a May-June release like I want.

Here are the features that are planned for the Final as of now

6 Characters
-2 Secret
11 Stages
-6 Secret
Arcade Mode
-5 Matches
Endless Mode
-Online High Scores
- Single Player and 2-4 Player Co-op
Versus Options
-Time On/Off
-Stock On/Off
- Stage Hazards On/Off
- Random Stage



Also, as for the metagame update (well what exists of it among my friends), Mario has become a true force (without any changes from demo 2) He is probably the best so my goal is to buff everyone up to him. I can show you a video of a good mario playing if you guys are interested to see his play style.


Also, a major thing that I am thinking of trying to implement is a short leeway for attack inputs. I have noticed that sometimes it is hard to do the correct aerial so I am thinking of adding a 2 frame time between when the attack key is pressed and when the game registers it. That way you could press the key and still have a slight bit of time to direct your attack the right way. It might also make the game feel a little less responsive though. Thoughts?

Anyway,
I'll be back with updates and maybe some stuff to show soon.

-4nace

 

[BigLord]

Don't add any kind of delay, please! Or at least release a short demo trying to explain a little better what you mean... I'm afraid it might mess up with my brain patterns.

Also, lol@6 secret stages. More secret stages than non-secret! :D that normally is the case with characters, not stages!

And that statement of "Mario is a force to be reckoned with" boggles my mind... But it might be because I can't control Mario all that well? Do try to record some footage of a good Mario, please.

 

[Shorts]

Will these stages soley relate to playable characters?

Like Mario get's Peaches Castle, Bowser's Flying Ship, and Geno's Woods?

Or will we see other Franchises be represented? Like Smashville.

OOOOOR are these other stages mostly Smash-Original Stages?

 

[4nace]

Ahh for stages there will be 2 stages for each starter character. And then 1 stage from Smash - Battlefield and two stages I haven't announced yet.

I'll have to get a video of mario up for you guys soon. Possibly a team match since I haven't uploaded any of those yet and between my friends we get pretty intense when we do our best of 7 series haha.

Also a teaser update tomorrow perhaps? Maybeeeeee

-Dan

 

[Luxor]

hype hype monday tuesday wednesday HYPEDAY
edit: I love this april fools' day

 

[4nace]

FINAL BOSS NEWS HERE​

"It is with great pleasure that I announce to you the final boss for Super Smash Land. Here I will be straying from the original series and be excluding the Master Hand. Instead, I bring one of the most talented and accomplished artists onto the battlefield to fight. This star has been itching to be in Smash since she blew up onto the music scene. With phenomenal vocals and magical wordplay, her skill will test you on the battlefield. I am talking about none other than...

Rebecca Black!​

Her attacks consists of:

* Weighing Conundrums such as which seat to sit in.
* Explaining the Days of the week.
* Eating Cereal
* Getting Down
* Looking Forward
* Riding in the Back of a Car

I hope you all enjoy the greatness that this boss will exemplify. Of course the fight will be accompanied by Inversephase's chiptune rendition of Rebecca's hit song, Friday."

 

[Luxor]

 

[Shadic]

I'd play that.

 

[Wrastor]

And that statement of "Mario is a force to be reckoned with" boggles my mind... But it might be because I can't control Mario all that well? Do try to record some footage of a good Mario, please.

Current meta-game, Mario is most likely the strongest in all match-ups. He has 3 individual moves that can be spammed in succession, 2 of which can lock certain characters depending on the stage.

I suppose the only character that can easily break out of any of Mario's ridiculous combo locks is Pikachu.

Tornado spam quickly turns any game. I've successfully locked opponents to catch up in damage up to 50%+

Bair spam wrecks any character if done correctly.

Fair spam is tricky, but will pretty much bounce characters around and allows you to do a quick fireball stun in the air and Fair for the kill.

Fireball followed by down ground is pretty much standard close up combo and fireball dash is good for closing the distance.

Basically, Mario is just a bunch of annoying spam moves. If you break it up however, he'll pretty much destroy any other character.

 

[Segtendo]

4nace for the win.

 

[BigLord]

@Wrastor: yep. You've GOT to show me those things... Wow.


PS: I'd play the game, but... "Of course the fight will be accompanied by Inversephase's chiptune rendition of Rebecca's hit song, Friday."

Does this really exist?

 

[Luxor]

Current meta-game, Mario is most likely the strongest in all match-ups. He has 3 individual moves that can be spammed in succession, 2 of which can lock certain characters depending on the stage.

Fireball-->Dash attack is good, but not super amazing or anything.

I suppose the only character that can easily break out of any of Mario's ridiculous combo locks is Pikachu.

2-hit combo doesn't really need escape.

Tornado spam quickly turns any game. I've successfully locked opponents to catch up in damage up to 50%+

Tornado spam works well on computers, but it's such low range and knockback that any c-c-c-c-combo breaker move gets you out. Kirby/Link Dair is good. Tornado's good when used right, but not as good as you say. Not at all.

Bair spam wrecks any character if done correctly.

Bair spam is Kirby's thing, since Kirby can actually Wall of Pain for the kill (which is sick, I might add.)

Fair spam is tricky, but will pretty much bounce characters around and allows you to do a quick fireball stun in the air and Fair for the kill.

Fair starts up waaaay to slow to approach with. Easy to punish or avoid, definitely not one of Mario's better options. For spacing/zoning/approaching, Bair is still better.

Fireball followed by down ground is pretty much standard close up combo and fireball dash is good for closing the distance.

Fair enough.

Basically, Mario is just a bunch of annoying spam moves. If you break it up however, he'll pretty much destroy any other character.

This is completely untrue. Spamming fireballs is a major part of his game, but everything else you said is silly. Not to mention that you say Mario is OP without even comparing him to anyone else- his kit is good, but what's to say the others' kits aren't better? Link's bombs are far worse than any spam Mario has, and Kirby's Bair is as well. I could argue that Pika's Usmash is a better character than Mario. Half of your points also ignore the fact that
A. Crouch cancelling exists
B. When Mario tries to approach, you can *gasp* hit him back instead!

I feel that while Mario is viable, he's not half as good as you say. Link and Pikachu on the other hand are stupidly good.

Spoiler

i'm getting pretty worked up over a fanmade game lololol

 

[BigLord]

^4nace shares his opinion with him, though. You do make some valid points, but I'd really like to see what Wrastor and 4nace are talking about (4nace says he plays against 3 other people, soo...)

 

[Wrastor]

@Luxor

Fair enough, but most of the things I've mentioned is viable and works both in demo 2 and the current build I play with 4nace. If you understand tornado's hitbox, it'll beat out most charaters' moves. Mario's bair is easier to control, but will lose out to Kirby's only due to range. Fair spamming is possible, like I said, albeit tricky. It's more of a timing thing than anything due to the speed. I only abuse Mario's attack due to what I know about his moves' hitbox.

2-hit combo doesn't really need escape.

It's not a 2-hit combo. It's a lock. I.E. Tornado locking. Fair can be more than a 2 hit combo, the bounce you get when you're in high percentages allows you to set up for 1 or 2 more Fairs. Bair locks Link and Mario pretty well up to the end of the stage, of course depending on what stage.

I do understand your last two points. as I am well aware of what 4nace has implemented in the game.

The current build has Pikachu's usmash nerfed, unless it was already nerfed in demo 2. Been awhile.

4nace has a few videos of me playing against his Link and another friend's Link somewhere.

 

[4nace]

Here is that noob Wrastor losing to Etalus, who has a solid link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAEg3cHvwbI

Also, I think the Usmash is the same in both versions, Wrastor. Not positive though. I don't think the starters have seen many changes.

 

[Wrastor]

Decided not to put up our match? Scrub. Jk.

 

[BigLord]

I see Wrastor actually approaches with fair, jumping while attacking... hmmm, never thought about that. Maybe it's just because I never got its timing right.

Still, no doubt you have a kickass Mario. I'd say Mario in SSL is the bizarro version of Mario in other smash games: here, he is difficult to learn, somewhat easy to master (spam spam spam spam eggs spam bacon and spam).

Oh, and 4nace, next time give us a video where he wins you're trying to prove that Mario doesn't need buffing!

 

[Shorts]

4nace, I'm curious if we will be seeing level's that are 100% new to the smash series? Or will Mario's levels be Peaches Castle and Rainbow cruise for example?

Also, I'm curious if you have any Smash-based projects planned for the future? You mad magic with this game. It's my second favorite Fan Smash. Basically, I'm asking if we will see a SSBGBA type thing come from you ever?

If so, I hope you come back to smashboards for character/stages/game mode ideas. It's pretty fun watching a game actually progress.

Lastly, Trophies?...... If the games final version has trophies, that would be amazing. I loved Melee's trophies, and I know I would get the similar feel if you ended up making them. I liked Melee's trophies a lot because they were all basically made from scratch. I mean it was really cool to see some characters that were just 16 bit be transformed into 3D. Brawl seemed less amazing simply because the trophies looked like they were pulled from other games without any real editing. It would be interesting to see your version of Peach, Gooey, Marth, Jiggs ect. in your spriting form.

 

[Wrastor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oea1bLwU1qI

Here is me playing against 4nace's Link.

Sorry had to put it up.

 

[4nace]

@BigLord

Yeah, Mario is weird. Right now Mario is also the worst AI, which is a combination of the fact that the AI does not know to recover with tornado and the observation you made that Mario is harder to learn than the others. Also, I hope you enjoy Wrastor beating my ***. In all honesty, I'm a pikachu main. Now I really want to show you guys one of our 2v2s because they get intense and we sometimes have 4-5 hit combos that are fun to watch =).

@ShortieCanBrawl
Hey thanks for the comments and ideas. Lots of stuff I hadn't really thought about.

So as for stages, there will be two for each starter. One inspired by n64 and one from my head but of course inspired by the series. Mario's second stage is actually in the second demo and you can unlock by beating arcade mode with Mario with 1 life at the start. I have completed Pikachu's and am working on finishing up Kirby's inspired stage. I could use some ideas for a stage for Link. I tossed around how to do something like Lost Woods, but I am not sure if that is what I am going with. So share any Zelda ideas that you may have for stages.

As for another smash project after this. I would love to make another smash. It is my favorite type of game and I feel I have still more ideas to tweak the style of game. I will probably not do any more straight up smash demakes like SSBGBA, but I have been tossing around the idea of an original IP smash game if i ever get the time.

As for trophies, I had never thought of it before, but now that you mention it, I am really liking the idea. I think it is a pretty cool idea to take the characters and do a single standing sprite in the same style as smash land with some information about them. Would be a nice feature to increase single player by being able to unlock these things. Possibly even a trophy stage, where you can pick your favorite trophies and fight with them alongside you in battle =P. I like the idea, and I will definitely consider it as a way to develop the game more after the next release. But as for now, I think I will plan to do a major release as pretty much the final with just updates in that trophy / re-playability vein.


@Everyone

I hope to get a lot of progress done this week on the sixth character. Going to be spriting some attacks. I also have 1 more non-secret stage left to make and will be making it soon and showing a video as a way to keep interest up between demo 2 and the final release. I can tell you right now that this stage is completely new to the smash universe =).

-4nace

 

[BigLord]

Some massive gimping in that match, Wrastor. Dat fair combo. Oh, by the way this is probably obvious but I'll ask: who among you uses a controller instead of a keyboard? Or even a Wiimote?

And the trophies idea, using sprites instead of 3D, would actually look pretty sleek... at least some characters would. I nevertheless like the idea :D

Can't wait to see that all-new stage, too! It's not going to be Battlefield, or is it?

 

[Shorts]

I definitely am excited that you are considering the Trophies because of the reaplay-ability they have. I think your fans would thoroughly enjoy seeing there favorite character sprited and placed in your game. If you need help thinking of any trophy ideas/characters I'm game for that.

As for the Loz stages, you could go down the Majora's mask route and pick something from that game. There is Ocarina of time, and of course, Oracle of the Seasons/Ages. I'll edit this and bring up some ideas later. I should really get ready for school now. heh.

EDIT: Okay so here are my four idea's me and my little bro thought up. The First three come from LoZ Majora's Mask, while the last one is of course OOT. The videos are a tad long, but they're the best I could find.

~Major Final Boss level~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRH4EN_KDnY

We were thinking you could do something with the nice Tree level, and somehow have it transition into the chaotic/psychadellic Final Boss batlle stage. Just and Idea.


~Ikana Graveyard (Day Overview)~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKc2dNNAn1A
~ (Night + Skulls)~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxPKpeMk13k&feature=related

This is Ikana graveyard, both the daylight version, and the night Version. In the daylight the level is a regular, calm graveyard. But at night the skulls come out and do their ritualistic dancing and micheivious behavior. Not to mention the level has this Giant King skull that could be used as a level hazzard. (The King Skull being used as a level hazzard is referring to him when he is laying in this hole in the side of this wall, in the second video. Not him running around in the first one. I was thinking a Day/Night transition. Night time having hazards, and day not.



~Southern Swamp~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSGZkYZBABY

This is just an outragously awesome level that you could use in a ton of ways. I'll leave the creativity up to you. I was thinking utilizing th Hut and Lillypads.

~Koriki Village~
Start watching around 5:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJxMcG_PlVU

You probably know this level, so you know how cool the level is. You can jump around the tops of buildings, go on ladders/bridges in the air. The level is just cool and again, it's all up to how you would like to see it done.



So all in all, I like the Southern Swamp, and Ikana Graveyard Ideas the most. They're two really awesome levels in one of my favorite Zelda Games.

That's my two cents.