[Super Smash Land] - Final Build 1.1 Online

[4nace]

Yeah, i agree with you. However, i think the only chance a female has would really be samus. I dont think i would go for a fighting game character and lara croft would not be all that recognizable at such a small scale.

However, i agree that no more mario representation is a good idea. I guess the question comes down to whether or Wario or Ness/Ninten would make a better fit for the last spot in the Nintendo Roster. I was also thinking that Captain N would be pretty hilarious and work well for the time-frame, and now would work as a throwback like R.O.B. was but i worry that he would be hard to recognize so small.

-4nace

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, i agree with you. However, i think the only chance a female has would really be samus. I dont think i would go for a fighting game character and lara croft would not be all that recognizable at such a small scale.

However, i agree that no more mario representation is a good idea. I guess the question comes down to whether or Wario or Ness/Ninten would make a better fit for the last spot in the Nintendo Roster. I was also thinking that Captain N would be pretty hilarious and work well for the time-frame, and now would work as a throwback like R.O.B. was but i worry that he would be hard to recognize so small.

-4nace

I personally wouldn't mind either Ninten/Ness or Wario. So long as Wario Gets a Wario Land moveset. WarioWare is too new anyways, and Wario Land is so much better. If you don't want wario to have a WL moveset I vote Ninten/Ness. I can make do with Samus. I would Protest more if she wasn't available, but I can make do with her. And I would prefer a different Retro over R.O.B. like For the Frog the Bell toll's Sabure Prince, or maybe Tomatoe Adeventure's DeMille (http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/DeMille) Much cuter, and Demille could be recognizable I think. Maybe? More so than R.O.B or Sabure.

 

[Kpoforever94]

I would like a lot to see a character of sf for the 3 group (And ryu, or chun li would be recognizable).
For the nintendo group, it would be interesting to have a simon belmont (Castlevania).
But i like how the poll is coming out. I maybe would like to exchange toad for some character of another frachinse of nintendo.

 

[GeminiCrossFade]

I personally wouldn't mind either Ninten/Ness or Wario. So long as Wario Gets a Wario Land moveset. WarioWare is too new anyways, and Wario Land is so much better. If you don't want wario to have a WL moveset I vote Ninten/Ness. I can make do with Samus. I would Protest more if she wasn't available, but I can make do with her. And I would prefer a different Retro over R.O.B. like For the Frog the Bell toll's Sabure Prince, or maybe Tomatoe Adeventure's DeMille (http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/DeMille) Much cuter, and Demille could be recognizable I think. Maybe? More so than R.O.B or Sabure.

I was actually thinking more Lolo&Lala from Adventure Lolo for the Throwback. I mean.. who doesn't remember those adorable thingys?. Anyway, I feel what your saying about that female thing but I have to agree with 4nace on this one.

I also thought that Little Mac from Punchout would be an intresting idea for this game. He may be in brawl as a assist trophy but in my eyes he deserved a character position. Just sayin..

 

[BigLord]

Most people would like to finally use Toad in a fighting game (instead of using him as a punching bag), so I vote leaving him in for now.

Also, don't forget it's CHIBI captain Falcon, not the real one! The real one would break the Gameboy apart

 

[DeeNinjaa]

4nace, this is getting out of hand. Screw the Poll, just pick who YOU most want. YOU're making the damn thing.

 

[4nace]

Haha yeah the point of it is more to get ideas, some characters I had never thought of but would be good. I was thinking doing a poll for the sixth would be a good way to get the community involved in the process. I said from the beginning that if a do a poll i would pick one of the top 3 and develop one of those.

But i can see how it would be a bit out of hand getting all these opinions in here. In the end the final will be my choice, but i think doing a poll with a large community base would be a nice way to get people involved.

(Similar to how brawl picked Sonic).

-4nace

 

[DeeNinjaa]

And did Sonic turn out fantastic? Nupe. The fun of unlockables IMO comes from not knowing what it's gonna be.

 

[BigLord]

Uuuh, DeeNinjaa? 4nace is a Sonic main, and I think he loves him some Sonic in Brawl.

Be careful about what you post in this thread! :D

I still agree with you, though. Screw the poll, you (4nace) are the leader of this gig, and that's what matters most, hehe. If people don't like your sixth character, then MAYBE you'll change it. But until then, do your own thing.

 

[4nace]

Deeninja does bring up a good point of being surprised, which I feel is very valid. I will discuss things with my sound guy to see what he was thinking and get his thoughts.

But not doing the poll would help people have that OMG, I wonder who it is when Demo 3 (hopefully the last demo) is released.

Of course that wouldn't last for too long, but if i make him/her really hard to get then maybe it will last for a few weeks after the game comes up and the first person who does unlock it would feel pretty awesome haha =P.

Hmmmm... i'm in deliberation. Right now you guys can help by looking at the list of 10 characters I posted or some of your own suggested ones and go through why they would be awesome or would totally suck (all your own opinion of course). That way I can get some feedback. Things like :

"Samus has the only charged projectile, the awesome bombs for a down air and other unique attacks! Samus would rock."

or

"Fox's laser would be OP, fox would not look good that small. Fox's A attacks aren't that unique. Fox's reflector would be cool though. But overall Fox would suck."

I feel like that is valid discussion that I could go through and help me make my choice. You have to consider that movesets are only 9-10 attacks and I am looking for the most unique playstyles. =)

But anyway, I'm glad we've talked about this so far as the 5-6 characters I am leaning toward pretty much all come from your guys suggestions.

 

[GeminiCrossFade]

Pacman

His completely unique character in all would give him a really fun moveset. A type that makes him unstoppable if you know how to use him right. Just saying

Toad
As a wanted character for ages and the fact that Toad has a smash crusade moveset. If you take that and add it to Smash land that would just add all out fun. Using his mushrooms and sheer speed to quickly pummel his opponents. This would make him a real damage racker like Metaknight.

Glover
The fact that he can switch from Heavy,Middle, and Light all by itself makes glover an awsome idea. The challenge is finding a custom pattern that fits you. Going Heavy against mario then light against pikachu. Deciding which ball to use against which opponent would make him never run out because theres alot of ways you can attack people which each ball that you use. I cant say the possibilites are endless but you get the point.

Black Mage

His long range attack would definatly provide a challenge for those players who want one. It would be very difficult to take enemies down at once and you would have to strategize on how exactly to take them down.

These are just my opinions. just sayin

 

[4nace]

@Gemini

Pacman would be epic, thats for sure. The guy would need all kind of unique attacks to be a viable smasher. I think I have decided to avoid a poll, but I can tell you Pacman is one of the characters under deliberation in my head (along with like 10 others).

As for progress. I am coding Arcade Mode this week. It's actually a lot more work than I anticipated, more than coding a character that's for sure. (not more than drawing though haha). So I am going to take my time and make arcade mode actually fun and viable. Demo 2 is looking to release mid-late February, but I think it will be really fun and hope you will guys enjoy. I haven't decided if I am going to bug my friend to make a release trailer for demo 2. I might just send it around with the Link video since I am lazy.

-4nace

 

[Shorts]

I think, you have plenty of characters to chose from. We've suggest about twenty. You should pick one that you can make a very different mooeset with. Something unlike Mario Pikachu, Link, and Kirby.

I honestly think you should keep it more nintendo, with less third party action. How many third parties are you adding?

My nintendo votes would be Ness, Marth, Fox, or Samus. They're pretty legit. Or bring in a new face like Balloon Fighter, Bubbles, Prince Sabure, or Demille. Either way you take this route you can't go wrong. Too many of a single party, or too many third parties are the only thing that could make this game anything less than awesome. Black Mage, Geno, Bomber Man and Metabee are my votes for the 3rd parties.


I dislike bringing up the characters this much, so I won't until you personally bring it up again. It makes me feel like we are all here saying that "since *insert character* didn't get into smash let's push them on this guy." Which isn't what this game is about at all clearly.

 

[4nace]

@Shortie

Yeah actually all this discussion about character has been about 1 slot. The game that I am planning on finishing in the spring is a 6 character roster. The first 5 are confirmed in my head and are all nintendo (first party) so the discussion (including the possible poll) has been over who would make the best 6th slot. Therefore if third party, it would be the only one. I have decided against the poll because I would like to keep both characters secret for when the game is released.

Demo 2 will have the 4 starters with the 4 starting stages and one locked stage and then demo 3 will hopefully be the full game with all 11 stages, 6 characters, Arcade Mode (with some sort of boss) and an Endless Mode with Online Leaderboards. This game is not as large or as a grand scale as most of the Smash clones, but i do this so i can get 6 balanced characters in a fun little game that I can actually finish haha.

As for why the character discussion was so large, it was pretty much mostly valid. All the characters suggested here are pretty good ideas and I looked into (googled) each one and how a moveset could be made. In the end, I am going to choose the character that I feel I can get a very different playstyle out of and who makes sense as the 6th spot. The character has to feel like he would exist on the gameboy. Once the game is complete, with all 6 characters, all 11 stages and the modes working, I will then contemplate expansion (either user-based or some other type of expansion) and then the character discussion would be more relevant.

I guess until Demo 2 comes out and Balance and Gameplay are at the forefront, there is a bit of a lull in discussion.

For now, I guess I could be asking what sort of features/options you would like to see implemented. (Remembering that it is stripped down smash, so i wont have everything) I know for now I am not doing items at all with the exception of a possible heart in endless mode. In the versus options, the ideas I have are:
1. Random Stage Switch
2. Time Matches
3. Stage Hazards (On/Off)
4. Team Attack (On/Off)

Right now, none of these are designed for Demo 2, but they will be a main part of demo 3 development.

Anyway, yeah let me know anything you would like to see in the final. Or anything that you think fits Demo 2 perfectly.

Right now, Demo 2 is expected to release in 2-3 weeks and has these features: Bold are complete
-4 Characters
-5 Stages (1 Unlockable)
-Arcade Mode
-Team Matches
-In-Game Custom Controls
-Saving/Loading
-Credits Screen

Here is the Final Game Features in my head.
-6 Characters (2 Unlockables)
-11 Stages (7 Unlockables)
- Versus Options (Unlockable)
- Arcade Mode
- Endless Mode (Unlockable)
- Team Matches
- In-Game Options


So yeah. I don't have much more to say at the moment. Arcade Mode is going well and then I am going to make a screen that has Input and QA support so all you guys here that have been helping for a while should expect to see some credsss.

Also, I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone who has shared their comments and feedback!

-4nace

 

[Luxor]

As far as Fire Emblem characters, Marth is overdone. Roy/Eliwood would be cool... but it's Hector's time to shine. He has an AXE, for crying out loud. That's all that need be said, really.

 

[BigLord]

Yyyyyyyeeeah, enough character suggestions, everyone! Way too many right now

It's decision time, now. What character will appear in the next trailer/teaser created by 4nace? STAY TUNED!!

(see what I mean, man? People will really look forward to that, hehe)

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Pikachu will.

 

[BigLord]

You know what I meant, party pooper

 

[DeeNinjaa]

I was answering a question. Hardly pooping the party if you ask me.

 

[BigLord]

So... Why hasn't anyone said anything for over a week? No more SSL?

 

[4nace]

Haha sorry guys. I realized that until Demo 2 comes out there is not too much to discuss.

I finished arcade mode and have it ready for the demo 2 release. Right now I am working on a few last bugs and waiting on 2 songs from Inversephase.

I am also trying to see if i can get my friend to make a release video similar to the one for link but for all 4 starting characters. I am hoping for a release early this week, hopefully by thursday. But the demo will release by Monday, February 20th at the latest.

So in the end here is what demo 2 releases with:

4 Characters
4 Stages + 1 Unlockable Stage
Arcade Mode with High Scores
In-Game Control Changing
Team Matches
4 New Songs and Lots of New SFX


As for the 6th character discussion, I am thinking that I am just going to pick one of the suggested characters that makes the most sense. Not going to reveal who it is. I am just gonna make it really hard to unlock it so when people do they are like awesesesommmeeeE!!!!!

The art for the 5th character has begun.

Also, I have begun to think about stages inspired by games. Still working on ideas for Link and Kirby since i haven't really played their games much and don't know many of the places.

Anyway, I know i haven't shown any progress recently, but that is because i want people to find stuff out in the demo release!

-4nace

 

[Ultimortal]

4 Characters
Team Matches

HYES!

As with the previous demo release, productivity at work is about to decrease.

 

[Last Elixir]

Haha sorry guys. I realized that until Demo 2 comes out there is not too much to discuss.

I finished arcade mode and have it ready for the demo 2 release. Right now I am working on a few last bugs and waiting on 2 songs from Inversephase.

I am also trying to see if i can get my friend to make a release video similar to the one for link but for all 4 starting characters. I am hoping for a release early this week, hopefully by thursday. But the demo will release by Monday, February 20th at the latest.

So in the end here is what demo 2 releases with:

4 Characters
4 Stages + 1 Unlockable Stage
Arcade Mode with High Scores
In-Game Control Changing
Team Matches
4 New Songs and Lots of New SFX


As for the 6th character discussion, I am thinking that I am just going to pick one of the suggested characters that makes the most sense. Not going to reveal who it is. I am just gonna make it really hard to unlock it so when people do they are like awesesesommmeeeE!!!!!

The art for the 5th character has begun.

Also, I have begun to think about stages inspired by games. Still working on ideas for Link and Kirby since i haven't really played their games much and don't know many of the places.

Anyway, I know i haven't shown any progress recently, but that is because i want people to find stuff out in the demo release!

-4nace

Go to about 6:40 on this to see a boss fight arena from the DS remake of Kirby Superstar, you'd probably want to make it less claustrophobic with hazard tiles, but it'd be a cool arena idea that isn't implemented in any previous smash games. Alternatively Green Greens is a lot of fun to play on and you could just do what you can to remake that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK3qYoaNW_4

As for Link, why not make the Temple of Time from Ocarina of Time, or the Forest where you get the Master Sword in A Link To The Past? Those are both very iconic places for he universe.

 

[BigLord]

^Wow, too bad it's on a DS title, otherwise I'd totally support that idea for the Revenge of The King arena. So yeah, Green Greens remakes ahoy!

Link... maybe a stage from Zelda II? I haven't played it yet, so I wouldn't know, but I think that title deserves more love. Someone else throw ideas, please?




And HIESZ! February 20th, new demo, here I come!

 

[DeeNinjaa]

^Wow, too bad it's on a DS title, otherwise I'd totally support that idea for the Revenge of The King arena.



And HIESZ! February 20th, new demo, here I come!

The DS title is a remake of an original SNES title. Get your facts straight. True that specific version in loyal to DS, but the arena in itself came from the SNES title Kirby Superstar.

That and where did anyone say D2 was getting released on the 20th?

Anyway, I'm against King DeDeDe Arena as a stage. Why? It's flat. Might as well make it FD. Unless you're gonna scrap Master Hand and made DeDeDe the last boss. ...You know, that would actually be pretty fun. Smack DeDeDe around, dealing damage by electrocuting him with the cage. You could put that in the stadium or something >___>

Yeah, I just remembered. We need a Stadium mode for the Break the Targets and (PLEASE SAY YOU'RE INCLUDING)Board the Platforms, plus whatever the **** else you're putting in this.

 

[Last Elixir]

The DS title is a remake of an original SNES title. Get your facts straight. True that specific version in loyal to DS, but the arena in itself came from the SNES title Kirby Superstar.

That and where did anyone say D2 was getting released on the 20th?

Anyway, I'm against King DeDeDe Arena as a stage. Why? It's flat. Might as well make it FD. Unless you're gonna scrap Master Hand and made DeDeDe the last boss. ...You know, that would actually be pretty fun. Smack DeDeDe around, dealing damage by electrocuting him with the cage. You could put that in the stadium or something >___>

Yeah, I just remembered. We need a Stadium mode for the Break the Targets and (PLEASE SAY YOU'RE INCLUDING)Board the Platforms, plus whatever the **** else you're putting in this.

I was thinking that it'd be pretty similar to FD, except it could have hazard tiles to try to knock your opponents into.

Also, the the Zelda stages I had suggested, they could probably be done fine as walk-off stages, as without grabs and various forms of ledge tomfoolery I think that stages where you do not fall to your death might be worth a shot again.

 

[BigLord]

I don't think 4nace is really focusing on Stadium mode atm. He doesn't even want to include items, bawwwwwww

(I like playing random FFAs)

 

[4nace]

Hey guys.

So after some time talking to both my sound, publicity and video guy, I have decided that the demo should release on Monday, February 21st. (This is baring any kind of set-back related to the video as the demo is in final stages of bug-testing)

That being said, I have been reading through some of the new ideas and am intrigued.

I don't think I'll have time to squeeze a new stage into the demo considering it would require a new song, but I think I may develop a batch of stages soon, so these posts are pretty valuable.

The DDD stage is not a bad idea, but I agree with DeeNinja that it would not make much sense unless DDD was the final boss (which is not a terrible idea either honestly) I worry that even with some interactive pieces, the stage would just be too flat/dull.

The Temple of Time is a pretty good idea. Most of the construction would have to be my own, but if I want to do walk-off stages, this would fit pretty well into that scheme. Same goes for the forest, but in that stage, it may be a stretch to create platforms other than just the flat ground.

As for stadium/boss-battles/break the targets:

I hadn't really thought about it too much. Now that I do think about it, I think I will do break the targets as I remember some great fun doing that back in the day.

I also plan on creating Endless Mode as well as Co-op Endless Mode with up to 4 players. So instead of stadium, you can be pushing to reach high scores in endless mode. I still haven't decided exactly how I want to do endless mode yet, but I think I will work out a system in between matches so it makes sense (DeeNinja's heart idea or some other way possibly involving a menu). But I guess in the final version when you press arcade you will be granted with 4 choices. Classic, Endless, Co-op Endless, or Break the Targets. Of course both Endless's will need to be unlocked by unlocking the two secret characters. I dont think I will do multiple stadium tricks like board the platforms or whatever because i still want the game to be a simplified version of smash. Unless i come up with a really sick idea haha.

As for items... meehhhhh not worth it in my mind. Items+Sprites = nightmares haha.


So yeah, Demo out next week. Hopefully with a boss video to go along with it. New Stage Design and character spriting have just barely started. The 5th character is going to be a blast. I am almost done coming up with his/hers/its moves!

-4nace

 

[Last Elixir]

As for items... meehhhhh not worth it in my mind. Items+Sprites = nightmares haha.

An easy way to handle items if you felt like including them would be to make them all operate as on-touch powerups, like including various small food items, or grant temporary beneficial (or not beneficial, people who like items might also enjoy avoiding items!) effects like small boosts to speed, damage output, etc.

However, that said, I'm not a huge fan of the notion of items myself, however I also want to provide input wherever I can on the game!

 

[Jaklub]

As for items... meehhhhh not worth it in my mind. Items+Sprites = nightmares haha.

I've made a simple system for SSB Crusade a while ago, but they don't seem to use it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?o4osc8c8pola2ge
Just replace the sprite rotating with using the correct frames (as GB couldn't rotate sprites), implement and voila

 

[Last Elixir]

Also, have you considered any sort of "double-tap forward to dash" sort of mechanic? It would enable you to include at least one more attack, as well as open up movement options while keeping things pretty simple.

 

[4nace]

I had thought about it in my first engine, but in favor of keeping things simple, I decided against it. With Pika's run speed though, people who like to play fast should find themselves at home with him.

I kinda always hated that part of smash 64 where i would never run when i wanted to haha. So the single run-speed is more of my own preference than anything else. However, having forward attacks and dash attacks both would have been nice.. but i feel like its a bit late now, and I like the feel of it.

Definitely a good idea though, but I think i would go for the more simple feel in this case.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

@4nace: Wait. No Board the Platforms? ;______;

 

[4nace]

HMmmm board the platforms is possible.... But break the targets is the only "must" in my head haha.

Also, so demo 2 is in 2 days, and I may be making a pretty big change in the meantime haha. SO remember those old pikachu talks of Charging Headbutt versus his Forward Smash from the games for his forward ground? So yeah, I decided a charging headbutt would be more unique and better, and I developed that. The only thing now, is that headbutt is a fairly hard move to kill with actually since most characters can out-prioritize it and you have to charge it if you want to kill. It works fine and its great, but I've been thinking that pikachu might be more fun with a move similar to mario's up-ground where it takes a while to come out but has a really good chance of killing. So I might make that move and allow a way for you guys to switch between the two and let me know what feels better (something like a konami code or something haha) But yeah, pika's forward air is the one from his games and I feel like with headbutt its a little bit redundant.

Anyway... demo still on monday, with or without new pikachu forward ground.

-4nace

 

[BigLord]

Suspense. Killing me. I can't wait to play it man :D

 

[Ultimortal]

My friend just got MvC3, but I know what we'll really be playing tomorrow.

I'll probably have more questions and nitpicks in a few days.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

4nace, no offense but REALLY? Ultimortal, you'd play this over MvC3? Get your priorities straight.

 

[Last Elixir]

Yeah, basically MvC3 is the only game that can exist from here on out. Poor 4nace had might as well shut down his project because anyone into fighting games is going to spend the rest of their lives playing it.[/sarcasm]

 

[4nace]

Hah, yeah, no more fighting games should ever be made now that MvC3 is out!

But, I got the memo a little late, so here it is:

Super Smash Land Demo 2:

• Trailer Video
  
• DanFornace.com Post
  
• Download Page
  
• Screenshots on the first post!

-4nace

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Oh, I wasn't aware this game had a thread for it on SWF. I'll try out the new demo later today, but will submit my thoughts on the old one first anyways, although chances are you've already fixed a few of my issues.

1. Kirby is ridiculously good, mainly because of his bair. If you do the higher of the two short hops, you can do two bairs before landing such that the second one autocancels. This can lead to nonsense like a single bair leading to a ztd from the middle of Dreamland. His ability to camp platforms and the skies is also excellent; it's really easy to just run away from Mario on reaction, especially since you can fly around off the top of the stage without taking damage from being off-screen. My proposed fixes for this issue:

-Give bair greater horizontal knockback so that it doesn't combo into itself and nerf bair's crazy IASA frames. With those changes, bair remains a good spacing/keep-away tool, but is no longer leads to silly death combos.

- Make it so that Kirby can't gain altitude so quickly and maybe give a slight nerf to the height he can get from his midair jumps. This will at least lessen his ability to camp the air and platforms, although chances are he'll always be pretty decent at it anyways.

2. There is no timer! It's not uncommon for situations in which neither player wants to approach the other to arise. If there is a timer, the losing player will eventually have to do something, though. Otherwise, absurdly long matches can result; I once heard an account of a Melee round at an old Midwest tourney lasting 25 minutes because there was no timer and the losing player refused to approach.

3. I once encountered an odd audio glitch where the Dreamland music played incessantly, regardless of where I was in the demo, and even after I tried to mute the audio from the options menu. I think I triggered it by quickly skipping through the match summary screen after a round, but I'm not sure.