Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PeridotGX]

Has Sakurai ever added characters during development that weren’t originally planned?

Aside from clones/DLC, I don't think so.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Bold and unsupported? Every Smash title since Melee has had characters cut, what would make this title any different?

Also, DLC worked out wonderfully for Nintendo before, why wouldn't they do it again?

Again with the "Dude, it's a new game. There's gonna be cuts."

Do you honestly think they're gonna make every veteran from scratch? We're not jumping to a new generation of graphics. 95% of veterans from the Wii U version have zero design changes to implement. The only characters that would have to be updated are Link, Zelda, Sheik, Villager, Fox, and Falco.

Obviously other characters will get their fair share of updates, but there's literally no reason to make any other character from the ground up. You couldn't even update their designs if you wanted to, because there's nothing to update it to. They would look exactly the same as if you just used the models from the Wii U version.

"It happened in all the other games" is not an argument. This game is in a totally different situation from those games. Unlike Brawl & Wii U, this game was either started immediately after the last one or in 2016, which is only two years later. Unlike Wii & Wii U, the Nintendo Switch is just as graphically capable as the last console. There are no graphical updates to apply to the veterans, so there's no reason to remake with the exception of a few characters like the previously aforementioned. So it's MORE than likely they ported the character data and assets from the Wii U version, which means that it's very likely they're WON'T be cuts. The burden of proof is on you to explain why there would be.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Has Sakurai ever added characters during development that weren’t originally planned?

Sonic is the most notable one, the 5 clones in Melee were also late additions. Greninja was also relatively late (1 year after the rest of the roster was decided), but they always had a spot reserved for a Gen 6 Pokémon, so he only counts in that they had to develop him more quickly than the other newcomers.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Has Sakurai ever added characters during development that weren’t originally planned?

Melee

Brawl

Super Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS

 

[Cosmic77]

Bold and unsupported? Every Smash title since Melee has had characters cut, what would make this title any different?

Also, DLC worked out wonderfully for Nintendo before, why wouldn't they do it again?

it's MORE than likely they ported the character data and assets from the Wii U version, which means that it's very likely they're WON'T be cuts.

No one here can possibly present solid evidence that there will or will not be cuts. All of this adds up to nothing but personal opinions and unneeded argueing.

Until we're told otherwise, let's just meet in the middle; expect cuts but hope there aren't any cuts.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Again with the "Dude, it's a new game. There's gonna be cuts."

Do you honestly think they're gonna make every veteran from scratch? We're not jumping to a new generation of graphics. 95% of veterans from the Wii U version have zero design changes to implement. The only characters that would have to be updated are Link, Zelda, Sheik, Villager, Fox, and Falco.

Obviously other characters will get their fair share of updates, but there's literally no reason to make any other character from the ground up. You couldn't even update their designs if you wanted to, because there's nothing to update it to. They would look exactly the same as if you just used the models from the Wii U version.

"It happened in all the other games" is not an argument. This game is in a totally different situation from those games. Unlike Brawl & Wii U, this game was either started immediately after the last one or in 2016, which is only two years later. Unlike Wii & Wii U, the Nintendo Switch is just as graphically capable as the last console. There are no graphical updates to apply to the veterans, so there's no reason to remake with the exception of a few characters like the previously aforementioned. So it's MORE than likely they ported the character data and assets from the Wii U version, which means that it's very likely they're WON'T be cuts. The burden of proof is on you to explain why there would be.

Please calm down. We are all just hear to SPECULATE and DISCUSS a video game. It's not that serious. I'm sorry if I upset you with my opinion on the matter, but I'm not going to change it. Yes, characters will get updated. We've seen that with Link in the teaser. You may be right. There might not be a single character cut. However, everything points to this game being a new title in the series, and with every new title, there are cuts in the roster.

My argument is valid that it has happened in all other games, because it has. I can show you it has. You're just upset that I don't agree with you, and that's fine.

I agree, they probably used Smash Wii U as a skeleton for this game, and they probably will use assets of the veterans to create them in the next game. It won't be a straight port though. Smash 4+, but I don't know, and neither do you because neither of us work at Nintendo.

So speculate on, TheLastJingo. Best of luck to you that your theories on the game come true for your sake. Cheers.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Please calm down. We are all just hear to SPECULATE and DISCUSS a video game. It's not that serious. I'm sorry if I upset you with my opinion on the matter, but I'm not going to change it. Yes, characters will get updated. We've seen that with Link in the teaser. You may be right. There might not be a single character cut. However, everything points to this game being a new title in the series, and with every new title, there are cuts in the roster.

My argument is valid that it has happened in all other games, because it has. I can show you it has. You're just upset that I don't agree with you, and that's fine.

I agree, they probably used Smash Wii U as a skeleton for this game, and they probably will use assets of the veterans to create them in the next game. It won't be a straight port though. Smash 4+, but I don't know, and neither do you because neither of us work at Nintendo.

So speculate on, TheLastJingo. Best of luck to you that your theories on the game come true for your sake. Cheers.

I wasn't upset.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I wasn't upset.

You were sure acting like it, but okay. We can just agree to disagree on the matter. No harm, no foul.

I think there will be cuts.

You do not.

Totally fine for both us of to think what we want.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Decidueye or Poipole?

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Decidueye or Poipole?

Decidueye will probably get it, but Poipole would be amazing. Mimikyu would be awesome too.

 

[DraginHikari]

Again with the "Dude, it's a new game. There's gonna be cuts."

Do you honestly think they're gonna make every veteran from scratch? We're not jumping to a new generation of graphics. 95% of veterans from the Wii U version have zero design changes to implement. The only characters that would have to be updated are Link, Zelda, Sheik, Villager, Fox, and Falco.

Obviously other characters will get their fair share of updates, but there's literally no reason to make any other character from the ground up. You couldn't even update their designs if you wanted to, because there's nothing to update it to. They would look exactly the same as if you just used the models from the Wii U version.

"It happened in all the other games" is not an argument. This game is in a totally different situation from those games. Unlike Brawl & Wii U, this game was either started immediately after the last one or in 2016, which is only two years later. Unlike Wii & Wii U, the Nintendo Switch is just as graphically capable as the last console. There are no graphical updates to apply to the veterans, so there's no reason to remake with the exception of a few characters like the previously aforementioned. So it's MORE than likely they ported the character data and assets from the Wii U version, which means that it's very likely they're WON'T be cuts. The burden of proof is on you to explain why there would be.

Frankly I would see cuts if one of few general scenarios occur:

1) Engine changes: even if the graphics themselves aren't being changed there are other changes that could be made to the physics, movement, or functionality differences that could require re-balancing the entire cast. Which leads to the 2nd potential issue.

2) Time Constraints: Whether changes occur or not, it's very possible the desire to bring certain newcomers, which require more development time could result in dropping characters due to simply not having enough time to implement them or so on.

3) Contractual issues: This is mostly in regards to 3rd parties, if a proper agreement is not reached for whatever reason or Nintendo simply decided not to pursue it a 3rd party character could be excluded. I believe this is what happened with Snake, though I don't remember the specific details about that situation. Or certain parties such in the case of Pokemon where someone could be cut for the sake of promoting something else rather then the existing cast.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Frankly I would see cuts if one of few general scenarios occur:

1) Engine changes: even if the graphics themselves aren't being changed there are other changes that could be made to the physics, movement, or functionality differences that could require re-balancing the entire cast. Which leads to the 2nd potential issue.

2) Time Constraints: Whether changes occur or not, it's very possible the desire to bring certain newcomers, which require more development time could result in dropping characters due to simply not having enough time to implement them or so on.

3) Contractual issues: This is mostly in regards to 3rd parties, if a proper agreement is not reached for whatever reason or Nintendo simply decided not to pursue it a 3rd party character could be excluded. I believe this is what happened with Snake, though I don't remember the specific details about that situation. Or certain parties such in the case of Pokemon where someone could be cut for the sake of promoting something else rather then the existing cast.

All are possibilities. The time constraint one seems to be the main one that happens when dealing with cut characters.

 

[Burruni]

Decidueye or Poipole?

Is Poiple even marketed?

Mimikyu's considered an outside chance, but it at least has stuff like this showing it's got a push from both GF and the general populace.
Edit: Jesus, this song has 6.9 million views, while the big trailer for Detective Pikachu didn't break 2.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Decidueye or Poipole?

The latter has received an anime appearance, but for a playable Ultra Beast, I'd look more towards Buzzwole or Pheromosa.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Is Poiple even marketed?

Mimikyu's considered an outside chance, but it at least has stuff like this showing it's got a push from both GF and the general populace.
Edit: Jesus, this song has 6.9 million views, while the big trailer for Detective Pikachu didn't break 2.

Ash just caught Poipole in the anime.

 

[Cosmic77]

Frankly I would see cuts if one of few general scenarios occur:

1) Engine changes: even if the graphics themselves aren't being changed there are other changes that could be made to the physics, movement, or functionality differences that could require re-balancing the entire cast. Which leads to the 2nd potential issue.

2) Time Constraints: Whether changes occur or not, it's very possible the desire to bring certain newcomers, which require more development time could result in dropping characters due to simply not having enough time to implement them or so on.

3) Contractual issues: This is mostly in regards to 3rd parties, if a proper agreement is not reached for whatever reason or Nintendo simply decided not to pursue it a 3rd party character could be excluded. I believe this is what happened with Snake, though I don't remember the specific details about that situation. Or certain parties such in the case of Pokemon where someone could be cut for the sake of promoting something else rather then the existing cast.

While this is very unlikely to be a factor (or at least in this Smash game), there's also the possibility of cuts happening because of how large the roster is. With 58 characters, maybe Sakurai will want to toss some of the more unnecessary characters to make room for newcomers.

Is Poiple even marketed?

Ash just caught a Poipole in the anime. Probably way too late for it to influence the decision on Smash Switch's Pokémon newcomer, but it's something.

(Edit: Nevermind. Someone beat me to it.)

 

[DraginHikari]

While this is very unlikely to be a factor (or at least in this Smash game), there's also the possibility of cuts happening because of how large the roster is. With 58 characters, maybe Sakurai will want to toss some of the more unnecessary characters to make room for newcomers.

I absolutely agree with that possibility as well and I've brought that up a few times as well. It's just usually I get the response of 'No it's not' and doesn't serve much purpose in discussion at this point lol.

 

[Mechonis]

I'm a little sad that there's no real characters that I extremely care about who could get in Smash at this point. It makes the hype not as awesome. The intensity and feeling of wanting a character and not knowing he/she/it will get in.

On the other hand, it makes lurking and reading everybody's comments and rosters somewhat relaxing and enjoyable. No matter how outlandish the roster. No matter how many cuts or additions there are. I can just lay back and nod or shake my head. It kind of gives an outside perspective on some things, when you don't really mind who is put into the roster at this point. Yet it can still be fun to see the differing opinions of others as they debate about who would make more sense, and so on.

I'm glad that the majority of the discussions haven't been toxic, and the majority of people are doing their best to respect other's opinions while providing their own.

Stay awesome, people... and continue to provide a poor lurker more food for thought and let me leech off the discussions that are fun to read. (Even when they go in circles.)

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I absolutely agree with that possibility as well and I've brought that up a few times as well. It's just usually I get the response of 'No it's not' and doesn't serve much purpose in discussion at this point lol.

I know you and I got into it the other day kind of. However, what size do you think the roster will be, and what’s the largest you think it could be?

I’m genuinely curious of your mindset behind all this.

 

[NintenRob]

What? How?

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, one is a recurring villain with a ton of personality and move potential, and the other is a sidekick with a spear... I understand personal preference, but I’m not sure how preferring the former is in any way disprespectful.

Marx is NOT a recurring villain.

He was villain in one game and it's remake. He's no more special than Magolor, Daroach, Susie and Dark Matter. And his appearance in Star Allies, would have happened ages after the roster was decided. At least with Bandana Dee, he was in the base game so Sakurai might have seen his plans to playable. Marx was dlc and therefore a late addition.


And Bandana Dee is the fourth core Kirby character. He is constantly grouped with Kirby, King Dedede and Meta Knight. Having someone else when we still have a core member left is insulting.



I swear people who expect Marx don't even play many Kirby games. I saw someone say he has a backstory when he doesn't. He just shows up and tricks Kirby.

 

[Icedragonadam]

700 pages wooo!

I hope there is some news next week or something. I'm getting pretty antsy here even with FFRK having it's 3rd Anniversary is still not enough to keep me busy.

 

[DraginHikari]

I know you and I got into it the other day kind of. However, what size do you think the roster will be, and what’s the largest you think it could be?

I’m genuinely curious of your mindset behind all this.

It's kind of hard to say frankly, without knowing more information about the actual development of the game, any number I could give is basically an unfounded assumption based on literally nothing which is something I try to avoid doing whenever possible, it's why I don't make roster predictions or make my own rosters. There are multiple questions which could effect the size of the roster and how much it can grow while still maintaining a level of quality we expect from the series itself.

The issue I have when discussing larger roster number itself comes down to the concern of content creep over time. Every game in the series has always been bigger, larger, and more diverse. The question is how long that can be maintained across multiple games. Frankly I feel like Smash 4 hit a good size once the DLC was all release. I'd be willing to put 65 assuming base roster and any future DLC, a little more then the current number. I'm just not particular willing to expect another massive jump in roster size.

Of course to have that number and have as many newcomers as the last few games. That would require cuts which is bitter pill to swallow for most.

 

[PeridotGX]

Who are some clones you see getting in the game? I predict Yarn Yoshi (), Galacta Knight (), and Octolings (Inklings).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

All are possibilities. The time constraint one seems to be the main one that happens when dealing with cut characters.

I don't think they're gonna make us re download the same characters again. I think they're gonna be there from the start and they've had plenty of time to make that possible. They're gonna have to if they don't want people flocking over to the 3DS version that they already own.

 

[Troykv]

Marx is NOT a recurring villain.

He was villain in one game and it's remake. He's no more special than Magolor, Daroach, Susie and Dark Matter. And his appearance in Star Allies, would have happened ages after the roster was decided. At least with Bandana Dee, he was in the base game so Sakurai might have seen his plans to playable. Marx was dlc and therefore a late addition.

I swear people who expect Marx don't even play many Kirby games. I saw someone say he has a backstory when he doesn't. He just shows up and tricks Kirby.

Well... you're technically correct, but, Marx's design and powers (as other many things from KSSU) are very common source for the post KSSU Kirby games to create stuff; specially the Soul Beings... He's not recurring, but his influence is recurring.

 

[Knight Dude]

Do you guys really think there's going to be 70+ characters? From a balance perspective, it seems like a lot of hassle to go through. Most other fighting games tend to cap out in the 30's or 40's. Barring the MvC games where its at the high 50's, where Smash is at currently. Now, I know it isn't impossible, but I have a feeling we won't see as many characters added this time around, outside of potential DLC.

 

[NintenRob]

I really like the idea of a 64 character roster

 

[SmashChu]

People are honestly overestimating Steve's chances. I can see why Microsoft would give Banjo away, because Banjo is not as prominent. Would Microsoft really give away their precious cash-cow to a game that they do not own? I am a little confused, so you can help me on this.

Imagine if Sakurai actually never added Banjo because he wanted to surprise everyone by adding Banjo in Smash for Switch, which would make them buy Smash for Switch.

The logic is simply "Minecraft sold a lot." That's it.

Discussion of guest characters devolved from characters people want to characters people expect will be in. In Brawl, everyone wanted Sonic. Then, everyone wanted Megaman. The Pac-Man for a short while (though there were quite a few who didn't want him). And after Cloud and Bayo, there really anyone that sticks out. Its telling that the big character this time was Inkling, a Nintendo character.

Discussion of guest characters has essentially replaced the "rep" stuff that existed during Brawl and Smash 4. Now its the "third party rep", and most of them are picked because of "history" or "they are a big name."

 

[kylexv]

Sonic was an unplanned newcomer to the Smash Series added late into Brawl's development.

More specifically, Sakurai asked Sega at the beginning of Brawl's development if they would let Sonic in the game. At first, they said no, but late into Brawl's development, Sega said "wait nevermind we want him". Thus, Brawl got delayed to add Sonic to the game and, presumably, with the extra time they had, added Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf as well.

Since they still wanted to get the game out ASAP, half of Sonic's moves have him in a ball.

 

[T-Hell]

Who are some clones you see getting in the game? I predict Yarn Yoshi (), Galacta Knight (), and Octolings (Inklings).

Yarn Yoshi will most likely be a skin, but what do I know. He is getting in the game for sure in some way, shape or form.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well I narrowed my roster down to 70 and it was difficult. So many hard cuts. I'm actually still undecided on a few factors so I made two rosters.

Any opinions?

 

[kylexv]

Who are some clones you see getting in the game? I predict Yarn Yoshi (), Galacta Knight (), and Octolings (Inklings).

I don't really like predicting clones (since they're kind of decided on a whim). But I wouldn't mind seeing and coming back with a few more things to make them unique.
Along with this, Octolings as a clone of Inklings, becoming his own character, or a Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight clone for Meta Knight would be cool.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah, it's hard to predict clones, but we sure could love to see some, I guess.

Louie as an Alt for Olimar, and Alph being his own clone, that's fine with me.

Also, cool, page 700.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Who are some clones you see getting in the game? I predict Yarn Yoshi (), Galacta Knight (), and Octolings (Inklings).

It's very difficult to predict the clones, as that all boils down to what Sakurai can/is willing/feels is right at the end of development should they have time to be included. I'd go with Pichu to bring back a cut vet, Alph who was originally planned as a clone in Smash 4, and Ribbon Girl to boost the ARMS representation should Spring Man get in. If not, Yarn Yoshi to boost the Yoshi representation.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I wouldn't mind seeing Alph as a clone in this game. Other than him, I can't think of any newcomers that can be clones

Anyone think we may get one of the Ultra Beasts as a boss?

 

[Icedragonadam]

Maybe. In perhaps the story mode if the game has one.

Ohh another thing I wouldn't mind seeing are individual arcade endings.

 

[PeridotGX]

I wouldn't mind seeing Alph as a clone in this game. Other than him, I can't think of any newcomers that can be clones

Anyone think we may get one of the Ultra Beasts as a boss?

Yarn Yoshi and Octolings are pretty safe clone ideas. I prefer clones to be characters who really wouldn't get in otherwise

And Guzzlord seems like it could be a good boss.

 

[CannonStreak]

Maybe. In perhaps the Switch's story mode if it has one.

Actually I wouldn't seeing arcade character endings introduced as well.

Like in the Street Fighter games? I must admit, that would be SWEET! I would love to see those in the latest Smash game.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Three characters come walking, with the Smash Bros symbol behind them.
What would be your reaction?
And what would be the reaction of the internet?

I'd be stoked as hell for Master Chief but I can't stand Kratos. Put in Ratchet instead, or Sly Cooper.

I suppose I could live with Kratos being in the game but I'd prefer a lot of other Sony mascots.

 

[Danpal65]

Maybe. In perhaps the story mode if the game has one.

Ohh another thing I wouldn't mind seeing are individual arcade endings.

I liked the endings to Classic/Adventure/All-Star in Melee where you got a little clip of the characters doing silly stuff and a funny freeze-frame at the end. I'm pretty sure in SM4sh that just devolved into a funny freeze-frame you reveal in the credits.