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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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MamaLuigi123456

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Once again, idk why Nintendo and its fans are pushing for Pauline so much when she does close to nothing other than sing he main song in Super Mario Odyssey, does about as much as any other NPC in the game.

This is rhetorical by the way.
 

Cosmic77

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That is a good point, actually, if they wanted to push Pauline, we probably already would have seen her in Tennis Aces.
I haven't been paying too much attention to Aces, but it sounds like additional characters will be added through online tournaments. It might not be too late for Pauline to get in Aces, but even it was, I doubt her absence from a Mario tennis game would effect her chances much in the long run. If it was something more major like Mario Kart, then I'd be a little more skeptical.
 

Morbi

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Once again, idk why Nintendo and its fans are pushing for Pauline so much when she does close to nothing other than sing he main song in Super Mario Odyssey, does about as much as any other NPC in the game.

This is rhetorical by the way.
Rhetorical or not, it honestly has more to do with Odyssey than Pauline, if you ask me. She was a stand out in the game and the game did incredibly well. That being said, I do not really believe Nintendo is pushing her, and even the fan "push" is pretty, well, nonexistent as far as I can tell. It is more like people acknowledging her existence more than anything.
 

CrusherMania1592

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I don't see Pauline even appearing in Smash as playable. As a trophy or an AT, I'm down
 

Opossum

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On one hand, Mario is mostly tapped outside of the three that everyone brings up. On the other, Smash was lambasted for having too much Fire Emblem representation. The real question becomes, is Fire Emblem Switch too late? And it just might be, for the base roster. If that is the case, it leaves Fire Emblem with the only "relevant" choice of Celica which came from a game that sold poorly (or Chrom). Overall, I would argue that Waluigi (or company) is much more likely and therefore Fire Emblem is not as likely to get a newcomer.

I rarely argue that new IP are "too new." But we have literally not even seen the protagonist yet. So I believe DLC is the safe assumption. We got two, last time, after all.
SoV didn't sell as many units as Awakening or Fates, but it didn't sell poorly. Nintendo even considered it a financial success.
 

Burruni

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That is a good point, actually, if they wanted to push Pauline, we probably already would have seen her in Tennis Aces.
Looked deeper into it, and her appearances are
Donkey Kong Arcade + Donkey Kong 94
The 6 Mario vs Donkey Kong games, latest being 2015.
Odyssey.
Poor girl doesn't even have an amiibo yet.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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Once again, idk why Nintendo and its fans are pushing for Pauline so much when she does close to nothing other than sing he main song in Super Mario Odyssey, does about as much as any other NPC in the game.

This is rhetorical by the way.
In spite of the rhetoricality of the statement, I still want to point out that her role is extremely similar to K.K. Slider and if anything much more warrants being part of a New Donk City stage the way he was a part of Smashville than being a playable character outright.
 

Yellowlord

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Would it be too crazy if we got Waluigi this time around, mainly to be the representative of the Mario Sports games? I feel he could take a lot of moveset potential from the series and incorporate that into Smash. Of course, him getting his own game would be nice, but I think he'd still have a good shot even without one.
 

Staarih

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I do expect Pauline to be pushed at least when it comes to spin-offs (honestly, she has to be in Aces!).

But I doubt she'll get in Smash unless she gets Rosalina-level popularity (which I feel is still unmatched).
 

Cosmic77

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Looked deeper into it, and her appearances are
Donkey Kong Arcade + Donkey Kong 94
The 6 Mario vs Donkey Kong games, latest being 2015.
Odyssey.
Poor girl doesn't even have an amiibo yet.
That's actually twice as many appearances than what Rosalina had when Sakurai decided to add her.

Granted, Rosalina's appearances were all far more major than Pauline's, save for maybe Odyssey and the original Donkey Kong.
 

Morbi

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SoV didn't sell as many units as Awakening or Fates, but it didn't sell poorly. Nintendo even considered it a financial success.
Well, what did it sell? The only source I have has it at less than a third of the prior titles. I assume that it would be relatively accurate as I used it for all three games. Nintendo considers a lot a "financial success" if moving one million units is an accomplishment. Lmfao.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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Since everyone is talking about franchises that could get a newcomer, why don't we talk about the opposite? Which seems more likely? The Mario series not getting a newcomer, or Fire Emblem not getting a newcomer?


For me, this is a tough question. Mario is the face of Nintendo, and after the huge success of Odyssey, I could definitely see a newcomer getting added. Fire Emblem is also fairly popular, and although it's not nearly as big as Nintendo's other franchises, the constant rotation in main protagonists allows the series to have many more reasonable options to consider than other series like Mario or Zelda have.

Personally, I think it's more likely for FE to not receive a character. Between Sakurai's comments regarding the abundance of FE characters and Fates being the most recent non-remake FE game, I feel like there's more holding the series back than there is with Mario. It's possible that we could get a character from FE16, but that would only be if Sakurai was given enough material to work with early on from FE16's development team. I think there's a good chance of a FE character being promotional DLC though (because it's already happened twice before).
I think it's more likely that Fire Emblem will get a newcomer. It'll get a cut in either Lucina or Roy, though I feel Lucina is more likely to be cut. With FE16 on the horizon, and with the knowledge that Sakurai and Nintendo have internal knowledge of games in development. It's just like Roy's and Greninja's case. Sakurai chose Roy before his game even came out, and Greninja was chosen before he even knew how'd he would work in-game.

Mario will probably have his moveset revamped a little to match his Odyssey presence more, and if we did get a newcomer for Mario the only option I could see it plausible being is Paper Mario.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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Since everyone is talking about franchises that could get a newcomer, why don't we talk about the opposite? Which seems more likely? The Mario series not getting a newcomer, or Fire Emblem not getting a newcomer?


For me, this is a tough question. Mario is the face of Nintendo, and after the huge success of Odyssey, I could definitely see a newcomer getting added. Fire Emblem is also fairly popular, and although it's not nearly as big as Nintendo's other franchises, the constant rotation in main protagonists allows the series to have many more reasonable options to consider than other series like Mario or Zelda have.

Personally, I think it's more likely for FE to not receive a character. Between Sakurai's comments regarding the abundance of FE characters and Fates being the most recent non-remake FE game, I feel like there's more holding the series back than there is with Mario. It's possible that we could get a character from FE16, but that would only be if Sakurai was given enough material to work with early on from FE16's development team. I think there's a good chance of a FE character being promotional DLC though (because it's already happened twice before).
I'll be extremely surprised if Mario or Fire Emblem doesn't get a newcomer honestly. Both I'd say are on equal terms; arguments could be made for either of em.
 

BrytonJ

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Honestly I'd love to just see Pauline as a background element in a New Donk City stage singing with the rest of the band. This doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see her as a fighter but I think a cameo is good enough for me.

Of course, if she does end up as a fighter they can always replace her role in the background of the stage with Alfonzo.
 

Ridel

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I don't want anymore FE until they even them out with Zelda at least. Feels a bit ridiculous that Nintendo's second most popular IP is gets less representation then FE.
 

Onua

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Can I have the link to the roster maker thing with the new stuff in it? I have the old version that lacks a lot of new chars...
 

Cosmic77

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Well, what did it sell? The only source I have has it at less than a third of the prior titles. I assume that it would be relatively accurate as I used it for all three games. Nintendo considers a lot a "financial success" if moving one million units is an accomplishment. Lmfao.
The game hasn't been properly tracked lately, but I think it's somewhere in the 600K-700K range.

I mean, those aren't bad sales numbers by any means, but I do think a lot of people thought it would do way better than that, especially since the game had never been released in NA or Europe before.

I don't want anymore FE until they even them out with Zelda at least. Feels a bit ridiculous that Nintendo's second most popular IP is gets less representation then FE.
Cue the applause!
 

CrusherMania1592

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Would it be too crazy if we got Waluigi this time around, mainly to be the representative of the Mario Sports games? I feel he could take a lot of moveset potential from the series and incorporate that into Smash. Of course, him getting his own game would be nice, but I think he'd still have a good shot even without one.
Imagine a Waluigi vs Crash

Battle of the Crazies :troll:
 

Burruni

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That's actually twice as many appearances than what Rosalina had when Sakurai decided to add her.

Granted, Rosalina's appearances were all far more major than Pauline's, save for maybe Odyssey and the original Donkey Kong.
In Rosalina's defense,
She had like 2 major game roles and 3 spinoffs in the ~5 years before the roster was picked out.
(Galaxy 1+2, MK Wii, 7, GP)
Pauline's been here since 1981.
 

Ridel

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In Rosalina's defense,
She had like 2 major game roles and 3 spinoffs in the ~5 years before the roster was picked out.
(Galaxy 1+2, MK Wii, 7, GP)
Pauline's been here since 1981.
Also they saw an opportunity to give Rosalina a unique playstyle so I think that also plays into it heavily.
 

MrRoidley

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About Pauline, I guess she has a shot in being a K.K. Slider-esque cameo as previously pointed out. She hasn't even been made playable in Mario spinoffs (yet, Aces is coming soon and the inevitable Mario Party is on the horizon as well). It's far from a Rosalina-like situation
About Fire Emblem, low sales haven't ever stopped a Fire Emblem character from getting in, just look at Ike. I think Celica has a shot, more than someone from the new game (Corrin was like that for non Japanese players and their inclusion was pretty badly received from what I could tell)
But about the question yeah if either Mario or FE aren't gonna get a new character, FE is more likely to not have one. Even tho I'm not sure if they'd indeed focus on adding actual Mario characters or characters from Mario spinoffs (DK, Wario, etc), kind of what happened in Brawl (no new Mario characters, but Diddy and Wario added representing subseries)

I don't want anymore FE until they even them out with Zelda at least. Feels a bit ridiculous that Nintendo's second most popular IP is gets less representation then FE.
and I kind of agree, even tho I rly want Celica, if you really put it down Zelda hasn't had a newcomer technically since Melee. It's beyond time to expand the roster, this time around Zelda should have at least two newcomers imo
 
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Ridel

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Not to mention one of their characters is extremely poor representative of that character. :ganondorf:
 

Ura

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Not to mention one of their characters is extremely poor representative of that character. :ganondorf:
In Smash canon I like to pretend Ganon is a C. Falcon fan and likes to imitate his moveset.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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I don't want anymore FE until they even them out with Zelda at least. Feels a bit ridiculous that Nintendo's second most popular IP is gets less representation then FE.
I agree, but it's so tricky with Zelda because all of it's main cast is there. Link? Check. Zelda? Check. Ganondorf? We got 'em. Toon Link is there because Sakurai wanted a young version of Link, and Sheik (though she was a one-off character, OOT was huge for Zelda, and I think her inclusion was just lucky.) has been in 3 titles now. Other than that we have Impa, but her appearance changes drastically from title to title, and Tetra, but she hasn't been in a game for awhile. They'd be the only two that aren't one-offs that would just be removed the next game.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Fi, Midna, or one of the Champions (Urbosa for me.) But with Fi and Midna's games said and done, and down the road (Same can be said for Skull Kid and Vaati), the only thing we can realistically hope for is one of the Champion's, but they'll most likely get incorporated into Link and/or Zelda's moveset this time around.

Sidenote: I'm only doing this because I am a huge Pokemon fan, no offense or malice behind it, but Pokemon is Nintendo's second most popular IP. Mario, Pokemon, Zelda are the Triforce of Nintendo.
 
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Cosmic77

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Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Fi, Midna, or one of the Champions (Urbosa for me.) But with Fi and Midna's games said and done, and down the road (Same can be said for Skull Kid and Vaati), the only thing we can realistically hope for is one of the Champion's, but they'll most likely get incorporated into Link and/or Zelda's moveset this time around.
I really hope the Champions aren't wasted this way. It might make sense now, but several years later when the next version of Link and Zelda replace the BotW versions, the Champions are going to stick out way too much. I feel like including them in a moveset now is basically dooming them to be replaced with something else in a future Smash game.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Would it be too crazy if we got Waluigi this time around, mainly to be the representative of the Mario Sports games? I feel he could take a lot of moveset potential from the series and incorporate that into Smash. Of course, him getting his own game would be nice, but I think he'd still have a good shot even without one.
I actually think Waluigi is a bit of a dark horse, he's fairly popular amongst the more casual Nintendo crowd, so it wouldn't surprise me a great deal if he was the Mario character who did the best in the ballot, and he's also had consistently okay support since the Brawl days. I'm hardly saying he's guaranteed or anything, I wouldn't put him on my prediction roster, but he's a certainly a candidate.
 

GaroMaster

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My stance on FE characters is that I am fine with their inclusion as long as they are unique and fun enough to play as. Heck, I'd be fine if they kept the FE roster the way it currently is.
However, as somebody who doesn't have much attachment to the series, I wouldn't mind in seeing some of them go. I wouldn't choose to cut them, as they are enjoyable to play as, but if I was forced to make a choice, then I'd get rid of one.
Marth, Ike, and Robin are fine in my book and as somebody who grew up playing Melee, I'd even have Roy stay, too. I would say cut Lucina, but that would be kind of weird since clones don't take a lot of time to add in.
I used to hate Corrin, but I've grown to enjoy his/her moveset. However, I would honestly cut Corrin if I was forced to decide.
Needless to say, we say that Sakurai added too many FE characters, but it's a lot harder to decide which one since each of them stand out. It's probably why I don't mind the amount of FE characters as much as others. They may be from the same series, but each of them are unique and as much as each of them use swords, I believe Sakurai made some great calls with this selection.
 
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SuperSmashStephen

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I really hope the Champions aren't wasted this way. It might make sense now, but several years later when the next version of Link and Zelda replace the BotW versions, the Champions are going to stick out way too much. I feel like including them in a moveset now is basically dooming them to be replaced with something else in a future Smash game.
As sad and unfortunate as that fate is for them, it's probably the fate destined for them. Best case scenario, we get one of the Champions as a playable fighter. My pick is Urbosa. Realistic scenario, they will get incorporated into Link and Zelda's moveset. Worst case scenario, they don't get any kind of recognition. (That ain't gonna happen though.)

Dream scenario: We get all the Champions as newcomers. (That also ain't gonna happen.)
 

TheLastJinjo

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I haven't been paying too much attention to Aces, but it sounds like additional characters will be added through online tournaments. It might not be too late for Pauline to get in Aces, but even it was, I doubt her absence from a Mario tennis game would effect her chances much in the long run. If it was something more major like Mario Kart, then I'd be a little more skeptical.
What kind of logic is that? What does not being in whatever the last Mario game is affect Pauline's chances? If she got in, it would be because of her status as an iconic arcade character. That's like saying "I'm skeptical that Bowser Jr will be in Super Smash Bros after his absence from Super Mario 3D World & Mario Kart 8."

I really hope the Champions aren't wasted this way.
How is that wasting them? It would be the most accurate portrayal of them. They'd be in spirit form as they are and helping Link/Zelda with their actual abilities. Sounds like the perfect way to represent them. Instead of having one of them playable for literally no reason.

It might make sense now, but several years later when the next version of Link and Zelda replace the BotW versions, the Champions are going to stick out way too much.
Which is why they shouldn't be playable.

I feel like including them in a moveset now is basically dooming them to be replaced with something else in a future Smash game.
Okay...what's wrong with that?
 
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Burruni

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Here's my stance when it comes to Breath of the Wild's Champions.
They're a major and beloved set of side characters that will probably never be seen again outside of Hyrule Warriors: It's An Actual Sequel This Time Edition.
And you know who that falls in line with?
:4sheik:, who got in as part of a gimmick of :4zelda:'s moveset.
Skull Kid for MM, Midna for TP, and Ghirahim in SS.
Who all are assist trophies.
I do not see any individual Champion being made a playable character because none of them are that extremely notable over another.
I do not see all the champions becoming playable because JE-SUS.
All will get trophies, and some Assist Trophies are the most likely case. Revali's gale might become part of Link's up B, Daruk's protection as a unique shield to Link, and then Mipha and Urbosa as AT's seems quite plausible.
Zelda's been rocking the 3 spells from OoT for the past 3 games so god knows when/if they'd get replaced.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I do expect Pauline to be pushed at least when it comes to spin-offs (honestly, she has to be in Aces!).

But I doubt she'll get in Smash unless she gets Rosalina-level popularity (which I feel is still unmatched).
Why are you comparing Pauline to Rosalina when Pauline is a Donkey Kong character. Last time I checked, Pauline is a cast member of one of the most popular arcade games of all time. So again, Why are you comparing her to Rosalina?

And no. I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not Pauline is a Mario character. She is clearly a Donkey Kong character and I've explained why on this thread 100,000 times. She has only appeared in one Mario game, where she was surrounded by references to Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Country. She is deemed a Donkey Kong character in Super Smash Bros for Wii U.
 
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