Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Yellowlord]

It's a bit silly to think that the only potential cuts will be the three characters with the smallest workload.

Both Melee and Brawl had smaller rosters than four, and neither of them only suffered losses in the form of clones.

We have a larger roster to work with this time around, and that means there's more fat to trim. Getting rid of "Marth with no tippers" and "Pit recolor with Zelda's Final Smash" isn't gonna do much to lighten the workload.

It would be the best case scenario for the fans, but, unfortunately, the best case scenario is seldom what ends up transpiring.

Perhaps you're right; maybe they'll stick around for the next game in that case? Still, if they're going to stay, I feel they could at least become semi-clones, especially if Lucina and Dark Pit get an expanded moveset.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If any clone has the highest chance of returning, it would be Dark Pit.
Lucina may be a fan favorite in the FE fanbase and Dr. Mario had some fans from Melee, but neither one of them had the privilege of being created by Sakurai himself.
I could be off base here, but Dark Pit just seems more likely based on the fact he was created by Sakurai.

Maybe? Imagining the last-minute clones being of characters like Dixie, Octolings, and then Dark Pit as a returning last-minute veteran is kinda weird, yet so plausible.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the entire Smash 4 roster to return. Heck, I'd love for everyone to come back, the previously cut characters included.

But with the Smash 4 roster already at a massive size, and the amount of newcomers in both Brawl and Smash 4 being quite high, it's not really reasonable to think they'll be able to bring them back and add a decent amount of newcomers.

The only way I could see it happening is if they recycled more content from Smash 4 than they did in any previous installment, but even if that were the case, we'd still be likely to see some third parties or clones on the chopping block. Balancing everyone is a daunting task, and it only becomes more complicated with every character that gets thrown into the mix.

Well-said. It would be a pain for the developers to make another balance patch with the new characters and all the buffs wanted with the whole Smash 4 roster, so I could see cuts. I really hope that there are no cuts though.

I have to say, I think you should really post here more often. You use very good and precise logic in your posts. All the posts I have seen from you in this thread are usually right. You seem to be very experienced and talented.

Same exact thing about what I said about admiring Burb goes to you @Opossum, @Fuzzy Pickles! and @Scoliosis Jones.

 

[kylexv]

I remember when people wanted Magalor as a fourth Kirby character.
Then it was Dark Matter.
Then it's Marx now.

Just goes to show how the most recent Kirby games put another Kirby villain in people's minds.
I, for one, wouldn't mind any of these three

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I want Dark Pit to return, but only if he's decloned to some degree. I think it'd be really cool to see both Pit and Dark Pit utilize a lot of different weapons from Uprising. Pit's main weapon would stay the Palutena Bow, and Dark Pit would get his Dark Pit Staff. They can both keep their upperdash/electroshock arms, but maybe find a way to utilize claws in Dark Pit's moveset, clubs in Pit's moveset, etc. That game has SOOOO many things to pull from, and now that Dark Pit is already established in Smash, I think it'd be great for him to now separate himself from Pit outside of maybe a few similar animations.

 

[CannonStreak]

In regards to cuts in Smash Bros, I can see some cuts happening. I can see some third party cuts happening, especially in the case of Cloud Strife, as someone else pointed out earlier. I don't think many clones will be cut, though, if there are any, and I believe Dark Pit is likely to stay with that said. I can see some originals being cut, too, if few in number. However, I hope there are no cuts at all in this game, but somehow, I find that to be unlikely. Nonetheless, whoever gets cut, I will simply move on, and if it is a favorite character I like to play as, I can hope they come back as DLC. I won't throw a big fuss if there are any cuts, though, but somehow, I feel there will be some, just as some others on this topic think there will be.

 

[Burb]

Perhaps you're right; maybe they'll stick around for the next game in that case? Still, if they're going to stay, I feel they could at least become semi-clones, especially if Lucina and Dark Pit get an expanded moveset.

That part, I agree with.

If they do return, I'd be surprised if they weren't given the same treatment as the Melee clones who returned in Brawl (or SSB4, in Roy's case).

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I remember when people wanted Magalor as a fourth Kirby character.
Then it was Dark Matter.
Then it's Marx now.

Just goes to show how the most recent Kirby games put another Kirby villain in people's minds.
I, for one, wouldn't mind any of these three

Any of those three would be amazing IMO

 

[Hinata]

I want Dark Pit to return, but only if he's decloned to some degree. I think it'd be really cool to see both Pit and Dark Pit utilize a lot of different weapons from Uprising. Pit's main weapon would stay the Palutena Bow, and Dark Pit would get his Dark Pit Staff. They can both keep their upperdash/electroshock arms, but maybe find a way to utilize claws in Dark Pit's moveset, clubs in Pit's moveset, etc. That game has SOOOO many things to pull from, and now that Dark Pit is already established in Smash, I think it'd be great for him to now separate himself from Pit outside of maybe a few similar animations.

I've seen quite a few people talk about how it makes sense for Dark Pit to be a clone, since he's a literal clone of Pit in canon, but even in KI:U, the two don't really have any similarities when it comes to fighting. It's really a disservice to make Dark Pit a clone in Smash.

 

[Troykv]

I mean. Techically no.

Drawcia was the first soul boss in the kirby series. And even as a character from a spin off a couple soul bosses still take from her attack patterns.

The only think Marx Soul really established was the "Soul Boss at the end of a true arena." Which isn't really all the impressive. So I really don't think that helps him out in terms of his chances for smash.

I need to see Drawcia's moveset... because when I see many of the final bosses post KSSU they give me a "Marx-feel" (overwheling lasers, attacks with plant motif, black holes, etc.), except certain boss that actually gives me a Dark Matter feel... but it's justified considering its appearance.

BTW, I'm not advocating for any Kirby character in particular. I want most of them in similar levels :D

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

Unpopular Opinion: people mistake unique concepts with unique play styles. I have 0 problems people suggesting their favorite characters for Smash, but a lot of them tend to overrate how unique said character would actually play. For example, a dog wielding a sword is a unique concept... However, if that dog still has a generic upward slash as his/her up-b, a counter for their down-b, pretty much just generically swings their sword like any other swordsmen, etc... Then they really aren't that unique. Just an observation I've made about a lot of the character speculation.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I've seen quite a few people talk about how it makes sense for Dark Pit to be a clone, since he's a literal clone of Pit in canon, but even in KI:U, the two don't really have any similarities when it comes to fighting. It's really a disservice to make Dark Pit a clone in Smash.

Yeah, I mean he is the literal opposite of Pit, so he's going to (should) have a less refined fighting style. I think Dark Pit should look more aggressive in his animations, and maybe some of his moves operate differently. For example, perhaps they could change electroshock arm's animation so he swings overhand on impact and sends enemies straight sideways with very little vertical movement. Still functions roughy the same, but give it a little more personality to differentiate it from Pit.

 

[Spatman]

One important thing to remember is that this game began development in late 2016.

A common pitfall when making roster predictions is the belief that current ongoing trends will be the basis in which the roster is determined. It happened time and time again in Smash 4 speculation, and it's already happening with Smash for Switch.

Don't assume that characters will get in just because they're from a game that just came out or was just announced. Ignore the recent Direct, it's not going to have clues for shoo-in newcomers. DLC for recent releases probably wasn't even in development at the time the roster for Smash for Switch was finalized.

why late 2016?
we know for sure Sakurai announced his "breather" in Jan 2016 and at that date his next project was already decided.
I can't see him taking a breather lasting 9 months

 

[Camc10]

I've seen quite a few people talk about how it makes sense for Dark Pit to be a clone, since he's a literal clone of Pit in canon, but even in KI:U, the two don't really have any similarities when it comes to fighting. It's really a disservice to make Dark Pit a clone in Smash.

Honestly, Dark Pit's Up B is the only thing i wouldn't change about him.

why late 2016?
we know for sure Sakurai announced his "breather" in Jan 2016 and at that date his next project was already decided.
I can't see him taking a breather lasting 9 months

I thin Sakurai had a 2016 article about him working on something in June i think

 

[Burb]

why late 2016?
we know for sure Sakurai announced his "breather" in Jan 2016 and at that date his next project was already decided.
I can't see him taking a breather lasting 9 months

That's just what I believe.

As I said in my response to BluePikmin11 , a few posts later, it doesn't matter, anyway. Not only does my point still stand if development began earlier than I theorized, it's actually strengthened, since it will have been even further from the present.

Whether it was late 2016 or mid 2016 is completely negligible.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Did you even take the time to read the spoiler? Clearly not.



There ya go. Calm yourself before you try to call someone out. Zing.

Nobody ever reads an entire post before responding here.

 

[mario123007]

I do not want to cut the Mr. Game & Watch and the R.O.B..

Why should we cut Game & Watch and R.O.B? lol

tbh, I will be upset if any previous characters are cut... that even includes Bowser Jr, which was what Iused consider the most unnecessary character in Smash 4 imo.

Someone once said something about a pot and a kettle.

Don't know what's going on but man, now that's so many quotes...
Probably not going to know happened, but I cans see somebody isn't good at bringing up his/her own opinion... and to be fair I do see a few good points from him, just saying...

So on the topic of WTF characters...

..why hasn't anyone mentioned 1-2 Switch as a possibility?

Labo man is better.
And Amelia anyone?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Nobody ever reads an entire post before responding here.

Secretly I knew that but I felt that this was a good opportunity to remind everyone that they should read the completed thought before replying

 

[Knight Dude]

so whats everyone's opinion of Ninten? do you think the mother series should have all 3 main protagonists playable in smash or not? can Ninten be different from Ness in terms of moves?

I'm not worried about his moves. From what I heard, he uses stuff that Ness and Lucas don't in Smash, and those two have their share of differences despite being semi-clones.

It's that he's pretty similar looking to Ness, is what I'm worried about. People might not give him a chance based on his design alone.

 

[mario123007]

As someone who frequents just about every Smash-related forum, that's completely incorrect.

A large portion of the "anime swordsman" complaints were directed towards the Fire Emblem newcomers.

Corrin in particular got far more heat than any other unique Smash 4 newcomer and is still a prime target for the fandom's vitriol. I'm not sure what led you to believe Cloud or Shulk were the issue, as both were far more well-received.

I'm not saying I disagree with the cuts (Cloud, in particular, I think is the likeliest cut out of everyone from SSB4. I do disagree about Shulk, however. If anything, I think Xenoblade will be getting a second character in Rex), but to say they're the source of the "anime swordsman" complaints is quite misguided.

Not to mention Smash Bros itself is from a Japanese video game company, by Japanese developers.... Just putting this out there....

And I used to complain about Fire Emblem having many characters as well, but I just think it had too many, I don't use "anime swordsman as a complaint", same for Mario characters. In my opinion. .. I don't think any franchise should have more than 6 characters.... Even Mario, LoZ Pokémon series should follow that... But that is just me.

I get the swordsman complaint just a bit even though it is misleading and incorrect already, but anime complaint is out of question. Regardless, I really hope Shulk and Cloud can return.

 

[CBO0tz]

Not to mention Smash Bros itself is from a Japanese video game company, by Japanese developers.... Just putting this out there....

And I used to complain about Fire Emblem having many characters as well, but I just think it had too many, I don't use "anime swordsman as a complaint", same for Mario characters. In my opinion. .. I don't think any franchise should have more than 6 characters.... Even Mario, LoZ Pokémon series should follow that... But that is just me.

I get the swordsman complaint just a bit even though it is misleading and incorrect already, but anime complaint is out of question. Regardless, I really hope Shulk and Cloud can return.

Honestly? Every fibre of my being wants the Smash 4 roster to stay intact for Smash 5.

The only characters I'd be fine with losing are Dr. Mario, Corrin, and Lucina.

 

[Pakky]

So what of all this Undertale business these kids are going on about?

 

[Burruni]

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/972090999479574528

Because I feel Sakurai implied it.

It doesn't make much of a difference, anyway. If it were earlier than I assumed, it would only strengthen what I'm saying, as it would be even further away from the present.

There's an issue with this claim of late 2016 based on this.
The translation came out in november, but the interview was actually in the June 2016 edition of famitsu.
It started May 2016 at the latest.

 

[Retroend]

Honestly? Every fibre of my being wants the Smash 4 roster to stay intact for Smash 5.

The only characters I'd be fine with losing are Dr. Mario, Corrin, and Lucina.

i want dr. mario gone. he's useless and a carbon copy of mario. plus dark pit and lucina can be given their own movesets.

 

[APC99]

There are very few characters who do not have moveset potential.

But the point is to visualize more than just some special moves and a final smash. How does it all come together?

I could sit here and tell you all day how the best character choice ever (IDK, let's go with... Princess Daisy) has the most amazing potential for a unique moveset with tennis racquets and party dice and all the Mario Land enemies...

...But it doesn't mean squat when it's just a collection of references, or it doesn't have any kind of coherent tie that justifies her.

For example, Ike. He's got a big ol' sword he swings around. It's going to be a bit slower to hit, but it'll pack a punch. Zero Suit is going to be light on her feet and be able to dance around the opponent, and specializes with getting in close to attack, or creating openings for her to get in close.

There are very few characters who are walking references (Mega Man / Ryu / Bayonetta). If all you can muster up is "here are some things they can do in the game", it's a weak argument.

 

[mario123007]

Honestly? Every fibre of my being wants the Smash 4 roster to stay intact for Smash 5.

The only characters I'd be fine with losing are Dr. Mario, Corrin, and Lucina.

Same, so I am not really fond with discussing character cuts. If Super Smash Bros Switch wants to be the best Smash Bros, it must have all the characters, more balanced, good single player mode, good online and last but not least awesome soundtrack.
At least bring back Wolf .. Since we never really had a proper explanation on why Sakurai didn't add him back.

 

[Burb]

Not to mention Smash Bros itself is from a Japanese video game company, by Japanese developers.... Just putting this out there....

And I used to complain about Fire Emblem having many characters as well, but I just think it had too many, I don't use "anime swordsman as a complaint", same for Mario characters. In my opinion. .. I don't think any franchise should have more than 6 characters.... Even Mario, LoZ Pokémon series should follow that... But that is just me.

I get the swordsman complaint just a bit even though it is misleading and incorrect already, but anime complaint is out of question. Regardless, I really hope Shulk and Cloud can return.

For the record, I've never agreed with the "anime swordsman" complaints, nor have I ever used it in the past.

All I meant was that, if those complaints somehow managed to result in a character getting cut (which is ludicrous, but, hypothetically speaking, IF it were the cause of a cut), I don't think it would be Cloud and Shulk. It would probably be Corrin.

There's an issue with this claim of late 2016 based on this.
The translation came out in november, but the interview was actually in the June 2016 edition of famitsu.
It started May 2016 at the latest.

As I said in the post you quoted:

It doesn't make much of a difference, anyway. If it were earlier than I assumed, it would only strengthen what I'm saying, as it would be even further away from the present.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

So what of all this Undertale business these kids are going on about?

Because Sakurai played Undertale and liked it, everyone and their mother thinks Sans is a shoo-in.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

There's an issue with this claim of late 2016 based on this.
The translation came out in november, but the interview was actually in the June 2016 edition of famitsu.
It started May 2016 at the latest.

Really? Do you have a source for that?

 

[Onua]

I feel like the only way they'd top Cloud in the "WTF" factor they'd have to use someone like Kratos to outdo him.

 

[Pakky]

Because Sakurai played Undertale and liked it, everyone and their mother thinks Sans is a shoo-in.

I mean Sans can't really take a hit though...

I mean I guess he has potential but I personally have other wants.

Though with pacifism being the main theme of Undertale, is he really fit for a fighting game?

Doesn't really make much sense to me but anything is possible I guess.

It's not as ridiculous as Son Goku or Luffy who are manga characters.

I just don't find Undertale was one of those things that are all that significant to gaming.

I mean its just odd to have someone from a game who actively does not want to fight in a fighting game.

 

[Retroend]

so Burb what do you think of Ridley's chances in this iteration of smash?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

So what of all this Undertale business these kids are going on about?

Technically, Undertale characters are eligible for Smash.

But it's so incredibly unlikely to happen that there isn't much truly serious support for it, at least that I've seen. I myself wouldn't mind Sans or Papyrus being in at all, far from it, but I'm well aware that it's not going to happen.

Because Sakurai played Undertale and liked it, everyone and their mother thinks Sans is a shoo-in.

He did? That's news to me.

That definitely still wouldn't make Sans or any other UT much more likely though, and they don't have good chances to begin with.

 

[Pakky]

Technically, Undertale characters are eligible for Smash.

But it's so incredibly unlikely to happen that there isn't much truly serious support for it, at least that I've seen. I myself wouldn't mind Sans or Papyrus being in at all, far from it, but I'm well aware that it's not going to happen.



He did? That's news to me.

That definitely still wouldn't make Sans or any other UT much more likely though, and they don't have good chances to begin with.

I wouldn't really care the characters are likable I'm just not sure why they would be in Smash given the game's nature.

 

[Camc10]

With almost 3 months till E3, and a little under 9 months at most before the game comes out, How many new/former cut characters will be revealed by the end of E3?

Some stats:

-We have always had some sort of trailer in April/May (Smash Direct 2014, Mewtwo-Lucas trailer and ballot in 2015)

-We have always gotten at least 2 characters at e3, one of which being a 3rd party. (E3 2013 reveal + Villager, WFT, and Megaman, Mii Fighters, Palutena, Dark Pit, and Pac Man at 2014, Reveal of Roy and Ryu and dlc release of them and Lucas)

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Anyone have ideas for what some newcomer reveal trailers could be like?

I think it would be cool if Geno gets added and his reveal trailer is a reference to both his introduction in Mario RPG and the intro to the original Smash Bros. Imagine the begining of the Smash 64 intro remade in HD, but it's Geno that gets pulled out of the toy box and comes to life.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I don't think Cloud is going anywhere. He might, but with Square's strong support for the Switch, I don't see why they wouldn't allow him to come back.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

He did? That's news to me.

That definitely still wouldn't make Sans or any other UT much more likely though, and they don't have good chances to begin with.

He mentions several indie titles by name. He's really into Vostok Inc. right now and he played Undertale on the PC a long time ago. There are a lot more listed in the column. pic.twitter.com/Hdb73geIlP

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) March 21, 2018

From SourceGaming themselves, not that Sans is more likely than say the average third party.

 

[Pakky]

I want Spring man to fight Little Mac so bad.

Imagine Little Mac bobbing and weaving through all though fists!

 

[Onua]

it would be cool if they all had the dramatic edge to them that the inkling trailer had