adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Your ruleset doesn't state an unvote command is required before placing a vote, is that votecount correct?
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Shadow Games Mafia Over: Dgames Doomed
- Thread starter Jdietz43
- Start date
giraffelasergun
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,173
Hi guys! I'm reading the thread right now, I hope to have reads by tonight.
Maven89
Smash Master
Alright, this is unfortunately not as relevant now as the rest, but I still feel the need to explain this.
This is the third game I've played with Zalak. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who has played with him in all three. I'll say from the very beginning that guy made a giant impression on me, because the first game he was scum and he played it almost perfectly. Not a single time did he ever slip, and in the end he was only figured out by roleclaiming POE, and even then it was hard to realize he was scum. The guy is no scrub, even if this is his third game. If you look at Zalak as if he's another new player who will make newb mistakes, then he's going to stab you in the back to teach you otherwise.
Now, with that said, I still do have Zalak as a town read. But he's a player i'm keeping a close eye on, he's one everyone needs to be keeping a close eye on, and I honestly do think having him as "cleared town" is dangerous to the entire game.
I've seen two things that people have listed as being "pure town tells". One was Zalak saying no one should be reading him as town yet, which I honestly don't see as being a town tell because that's an easy thing to say for anyone and just requires some basic knowledge of the game to say. Maybe a regular brand new player wouldn't think of it, but Zalak? Yeah, he'd think of that, and he's capable of that.
Then there's the main one, where he mentioned his credibility. I think it was Gorf who made a big thing about that, but there's a problem here too.
The main reason I'm keeping an eye on him, though, is because of his hesitancy. If there was one major difference between Zalak as scum and Zalak as town, it was that as scum he was very hesitant, always saying "I don't know", and in general perfectly fitting in with the idea of a new townie whose unsure of himself. As a town player, he was pushing lynches and voting someone almost every other post. Now, he was given advice not to, and now he isn't. It could be he's town and learning, which is very likely, or he could be playing his scum game, which is also likely
Again, I have Zalak as a town read, but I am worried at the lack of respect people have been giving that slot, Zalak is not noob, he's better then many players already here, and everyone needs to keep a close eye on him.
Now I wish I was active during Day 1 so I could have said that when it was more relevant
Next post I'm making is going to deal with the last few pages
This is the third game I've played with Zalak. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who has played with him in all three. I'll say from the very beginning that guy made a giant impression on me, because the first game he was scum and he played it almost perfectly. Not a single time did he ever slip, and in the end he was only figured out by roleclaiming POE, and even then it was hard to realize he was scum. The guy is no scrub, even if this is his third game. If you look at Zalak as if he's another new player who will make newb mistakes, then he's going to stab you in the back to teach you otherwise.
Now, with that said, I still do have Zalak as a town read. But he's a player i'm keeping a close eye on, he's one everyone needs to be keeping a close eye on, and I honestly do think having him as "cleared town" is dangerous to the entire game.
I've seen two things that people have listed as being "pure town tells". One was Zalak saying no one should be reading him as town yet, which I honestly don't see as being a town tell because that's an easy thing to say for anyone and just requires some basic knowledge of the game to say. Maybe a regular brand new player wouldn't think of it, but Zalak? Yeah, he'd think of that, and he's capable of that.
He showed he was able to do that his very first game
Then there's the main one, where he mentioned his credibility. I think it was Gorf who made a big thing about that, but there's a problem here too.
In the last game Zalak played, he was town. and at the end of that game, he was given personal advice. His response to that advice?It probably seems weird to drop a push like that so suddenly, but I realized I must keep my credibility up
So really, what Zalak did was essentially repeat information he was already given. Not scummy, not by any means, but it doesn't show some sort of only-town mindset. At worst Zalak could have just repeated it.
The main reason I'm keeping an eye on him, though, is because of his hesitancy. If there was one major difference between Zalak as scum and Zalak as town, it was that as scum he was very hesitant, always saying "I don't know", and in general perfectly fitting in with the idea of a new townie whose unsure of himself. As a town player, he was pushing lynches and voting someone almost every other post. Now, he was given advice not to, and now he isn't. It could be he's town and learning, which is very likely, or he could be playing his scum game, which is also likely
Again, I have Zalak as a town read, but I am worried at the lack of respect people have been giving that slot, Zalak is not noob, he's better then many players already here, and everyone needs to keep a close eye on him.
Now I wish I was active during Day 1 so I could have said that when it was more relevant
Next post I'm making is going to deal with the last few pages
Maven89
Smash Master
Vote: Gheb
This is a vote I'm comfortable with.
I'm inclined to believe that FML was telling the truth, and I have no idea about Joey. Honestly I find that whole claim a bunch of nonsense because, looking at the flavor of the game, I'm don't see how we can be sure there's not 2 one-shot vigs. I have no idea what the makeup of this game is, but from the way it looks it definitely seems like it's meant to be ****ing weird. Gheb surviving means nothing, as far as I'm concerned.
Gheb should still die. I was willing to give him a chance, but his recent posts have been...not even trying. I don't know why he would try to save me, if he's scum he might want to remove the mason partner he was with, but I have gotten the impression Gheb thinks I'm a dummy so maybe he just thought he could manipulate me? I honestly don't know. But Gheb has shown more then just bad play but a lack of confidence and a habit of slinking in the shadows, neither of which I think we can let stand, and I don't want to drag Gheb along with us further into the game. I want that slot dead and flipped so we can move on. I'd say about 80% chance that he's not town, which is better then anyone else I see currently.
Alright, I don't trust anyone, but since people keep wondering: I'm a wizard.
Was my hint, the magic gif is really famous.
I honestly am not positive there isn't a role that works off knowing someone elses flavor, or role. But I'm a Wizard of One of the Cardinal Directions, and I know that no one else is a Wizard of one of those directions (or any direction). I communicate with Gheb through magic. From what I understand from my role, I'm pretty sure Gheb is not a wizard, or has a clear reason why he's in a neighborhood with me.
This is a vote I'm comfortable with.
I'm inclined to believe that FML was telling the truth, and I have no idea about Joey. Honestly I find that whole claim a bunch of nonsense because, looking at the flavor of the game, I'm don't see how we can be sure there's not 2 one-shot vigs. I have no idea what the makeup of this game is, but from the way it looks it definitely seems like it's meant to be ****ing weird. Gheb surviving means nothing, as far as I'm concerned.
Gheb should still die. I was willing to give him a chance, but his recent posts have been...not even trying. I don't know why he would try to save me, if he's scum he might want to remove the mason partner he was with, but I have gotten the impression Gheb thinks I'm a dummy so maybe he just thought he could manipulate me? I honestly don't know. But Gheb has shown more then just bad play but a lack of confidence and a habit of slinking in the shadows, neither of which I think we can let stand, and I don't want to drag Gheb along with us further into the game. I want that slot dead and flipped so we can move on. I'd say about 80% chance that he's not town, which is better then anyone else I see currently.
Alright, I don't trust anyone, but since people keep wondering: I'm a wizard.
Oh, flavor. I thought you meant flavour.
Was my hint, the magic gif is really famous.
I honestly am not positive there isn't a role that works off knowing someone elses flavor, or role. But I'm a Wizard of One of the Cardinal Directions, and I know that no one else is a Wizard of one of those directions (or any direction). I communicate with Gheb through magic. From what I understand from my role, I'm pretty sure Gheb is not a wizard, or has a clear reason why he's in a neighborhood with me.
Maven89
Smash Master
Now that I'm thinking about it, I see no reason to not claim as Wizard of the West. If you google Filmcow Wizard it's the very first thing to pop up and I doubt anyone would sit there, watch that video, and then send in action to attack "Wizard of the North". So yeah, I'm Wizard of the West, town-apathetic wizard.
Zalak
Smash Lord
Town-apathetic? What does it MEAAAN?
Zalak
Smash Lord
ALSO, Joey's counter-claim seemed really really really off just like so wrong just so bad I mean like it really concerned my I'm not sure we can trust our detective anymore do you know what I'm saying?
it just... it just doesn't make sense man.. it doesn't make sense. why would you.... why would you counter-claim in a game with 0 confirmed roles? it just doesn't work that way.... duplicates can exist.. we know nothing..... why would joey do it? dr. detective sherlock hound was already town-read by most.... so did they think they could just pull a fast one..?
like
like
even if we were to prove that our detective was a 1-shot vig, that still wouldn't even be real evidence of FML's guilt. and even if it could be used as evidence, why counter-claim NOW? why not hold off on revealing your role until you've tried to get them lynched through other means? this is incredibly fishy.
Unvote, Vote: Detective Sherlock Hound
it just... it just doesn't make sense man.. it doesn't make sense. why would you.... why would you counter-claim in a game with 0 confirmed roles? it just doesn't work that way.... duplicates can exist.. we know nothing..... why would joey do it? dr. detective sherlock hound was already town-read by most.... so did they think they could just pull a fast one..?
like
like
even if we were to prove that our detective was a 1-shot vig, that still wouldn't even be real evidence of FML's guilt. and even if it could be used as evidence, why counter-claim NOW? why not hold off on revealing your role until you've tried to get them lynched through other means? this is incredibly fishy.
Unvote, Vote: Detective Sherlock Hound
and was this legit.. or was it acting? you were just so confident that FML must be lying, but now you're complaining about a multi-vig setup? HM
Detective Sherlock Hound
Dooms|Red Ryu
Because one vig claims and the other is put in a position to use their shot on them instantly, making their role pretty much useless? What type of player is honestly going to think "You know, I think they may actually be a second vig. That totally makes sense." in a non Bad Idea Mafia game? Like, how many games has this actually happened in?
Also:
"Despite what the theme suggests there's a distinct mechanical order underneath the gossamer shine of this mafia unicorn. And while one of my goals was not to give a vast majority of players a boring role, I've been very conscientious to keep a balance of fun and function. Without telling too much, this game is actually less PR dependent than several other notable DGames. It's certainly no "C9", but it's not "Final Fantasy Tactics" either. It straddles a line that I think the majority of DGames will enjoy. But by no means will the results of the game be as random as the setting. Marshy probably doesn't remember reviewing this setup anymore, but he did back in the queue days: and he liked what he saw at first as well as what it ended up becoming based on his feedback. (Woah that was already over a year ago I pitched this setup to the queue mods? WOW. Remember that thing we used to have called a queue? This setup remembers.)"
If there are two one-shot vig's, a 3 person scum team can lose by Day 2. A 4 person mafia team can win by Night 2.
Closed setup =/= Bad Idea Mafia.
If this were actually a set up with two legitimate Vig's, even if they were one shot, I fail to see that setup getting approved for being "Balanced".
The only reason why I regret my claim and can (and probably will end up) town read(ing) FML is because of the fact that they're probably a pop-gun Vig. Like, their play makes it obvious as such.
Do you honestly believe that there can be two of any role in any specific non-open game?ALSO, Joey's counter-claim seemed really really really off just like so wrong just so bad I mean like it really concerned my I'm not sure we can trust our detective anymore do you know what I'm saying?
it just... it just doesn't make sense man.. it doesn't make sense. why would you.... why would you counter-claim in a game with 0 confirmed roles? it just doesn't work that way.... duplicates can exist.. we know nothing..... why would joey do it? dr. detective sherlock hound was already town-read by most.... so did they think they could just pull a fast one..?
like
like
even if we were to prove that our detective was a 1-shot vig, that still wouldn't even be real evidence of FML's guilt. and even if it could be used as evidence, why counter-claim NOW? why not hold off on revealing your role until you've tried to get them lynched through other means? this is incredibly fishy.
Unvote, Vote: Detective Sherlock Hound
You have to use a bit of logic on this. Common sense pretty much shuts down most mod's ideas about having two of the same role. Two docs? You're having two slots protected at night, and if a doc states that they are doc and somehow confirms it, they can protect one another. That's potentially two confirmed townies that can protect one another. It makes the set up too town sided.
Two cops? That's two slots that can get the alignment of any member of the town. If the best case scenario happens, they can find two scum in one night. Imagine if they both claim that they are cops with guilty results D2. That means that scum has to guess which cop is protected, but has to shoot one because there are two cops on the search for him.
Two one shot vigs? Worst case scenario three townies (at least) dead in one night. 9 people alive in Day 2. Lylo Day 3. Or if 4 scum team, Lylo D2. Best case scenario scum gets 2/3 (or 2/4) shot and the game can end before D2 even starts. I have no reason to believe that any moderator goes into a setup that he actually thinks is decent with potential for the game to end after one day phase for town or two day phases for scum.
Also, the FML wagon has been consistently going for more than an ingame day now. People have been scum reading him on and off for multiple parts of the day. The reason I claimed is because of the way he was posting, and before the idea of a pop-gun vig came to mind, the fact that people were town-reading him as dumb-rake for claiming that way and we were going to have to scramble for another lynch at the end of a day phase = me wanting to solidify a lynch on a scum read. Counter claiming is a great way to do this.
If I thought that the lynch could go through without me counter claiming, then I wouldn't have claimed. If I would have considered the idea of a pop-gun Vig, I wouldn't have claimed. I still think it's a bad setup if someone can claim one-shot vig with another one-shot vig in the game because of the fact that it's the easiest role to solve CC disputes with in mafia (real vig shoots the fake one), and it makes the one-shot vig then useless because he wasted a shot on a popgun for a very good reason and the set up is basically altogether playing against the vig in the scenario that the fake one claims.
Like, if I shoot him and he flips (real) Vig, my half is replacing out. My post was pretty straight forward.
Also, reading a scenario is part of playing the game. Of course I'm reluctant to believe FML, but this town has made it pretty clear that FML isn't a goal today regardless of my counter claim (especially with the idea that he can be a pop-gun which nullifies the counter claim altogether). Also, popgun makes sense with their results and it also makes sense with the flavor. Not a fan of the set up regardless if he's telling the truth.
Unvote
Vote: Gheb
Plan B boyz.
Maven89
Smash Master
Unvote
Vote: Jex
Vote: Jex
Maven89
Smash Master
Answer it today
Maven89
Smash Master
Since you already claimed your role, why not?
Kantrip
Kantplay
I was toying with the idea of putting a bunch of one-shot vigs in a set-up once with the restriction that they must use their power on a specific Night phase. My plan was something like
Town Night 1 Vig
Town Night 2 Vig
Town Night 4 Vig
Mafia with safeclaim of Night 3 Vig.
This is mechanically the same as having one vig that shoots (almost) every Night but with the benefit of spreading the power between several players and all the pros that entails.
If this set-up truly has all these one-shot vigs, that's probably what's going on here (of course with the chance that mafia probably has a one-shot vig safeclaim as well). The difference is that all these roles seem to be allowed to shoot whenever, resulting in the potential for a bunch of kills to happen all at once but not really changing the game anymore than one ONE vig that shoots every Night would over the course of a couple phases.
Don't see why people are freaking out this much.
Town Night 1 Vig
Town Night 2 Vig
Town Night 4 Vig
Mafia with safeclaim of Night 3 Vig.
This is mechanically the same as having one vig that shoots (almost) every Night but with the benefit of spreading the power between several players and all the pros that entails.
If this set-up truly has all these one-shot vigs, that's probably what's going on here (of course with the chance that mafia probably has a one-shot vig safeclaim as well). The difference is that all these roles seem to be allowed to shoot whenever, resulting in the potential for a bunch of kills to happen all at once but not really changing the game anymore than one ONE vig that shoots every Night would over the course of a couple phases.
Don't see why people are freaking out this much.
Kantrip
Kantplay
It's not as if there are multiple full-on vigs, these are ****ing one-shots. The set-up is hardly broken from that alone. Jesus.
Zalak
Smash Lord
that is the sketchiest thing i've EVER HEARD
giraffelasergun
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,173
Hi sorry I suck but this read is taking me longer than I thought it was going to. Is the deadline in 24 hours or 48 hours?
Detective Sherlock Hound
Dooms|Red Ryu
3 vigs shoot townies.
Mafia shoots a townie.
8 people alive.
If it's a 4 person mafia team, the game is over. If it's 3 person mafia, Day 2 Mylo.
3 vigs shoot mafia with a mafia lynch.
The game is over D2.
Like, you can call that not broken if you want lmao.
Detective Sherlock Hound
Dooms|Red Ryu
Should be 48
Kantrip
Kantplay
Well we only saw one kill last Night and you are making wild assumptions about the setup for no reason. It was properly reviewed and passed through the queue system, calm yourself and play the damn game. It doesn't look like the game is about to end D2 and I highly doubt it would have been approved if that was a feasible outcome.
FullMetalLynch
anomandaris_rake|orboknown
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2012
- Messages
- 1,842
Well **** me running. I need to ponder on this setup
Maven89
Smash Master
I'm really not liking kantrip, gheb, jex, or fml
I just wish they'd stop voting each other
I just wish they'd stop voting each other
FullMetalLynch
anomandaris_rake|orboknown
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2012
- Messages
- 1,842
That should helpnyou if anything right, cuz connections
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
uhhh why not Maven?
Detective Sherlock Hound
Dooms|Red Ryu
When you make a set up, you ALWAYS consider the worst and best case scenario. I'm simply stating why two or three one-shot vigs sounds very unlikely to me and why I feel that there is something big we're missing.
@
JeXs
people may have wanted to shoot Maven last night considering that he had one post in the game, and it was "I'll play the game later." It's kind of well known for Vigs to use their shots on hardcore inactive slots. We considered it before recognizing that Gheb was pretty scummy and we wanted to save our shot in case his lynch doesn't go through.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
At this point I'm working under the assumption that there are no genuine vigilantes in this setup, and that having a vigilante claim doesn't necessarily make you town. That being said, I would still use your shot if you have it.
In terms of who to lynch today? I am struggling to care at this point. Looking at the playerlist is honestly a bit of a crapshoot given such little activity from some slots. I can probably lynch Gheb? adum? idk. now would be a really good time for someone to make a case, because deadline is tomorrow night.
I still need to think about FML some. The possibility that they have a vigilante safeclaim is definitely there, and the extra icing of being a paranoid cop doesn't fit with the other claims so far.
In terms of who to lynch today? I am struggling to care at this point. Looking at the playerlist is honestly a bit of a crapshoot given such little activity from some slots. I can probably lynch Gheb? adum? idk. now would be a really good time for someone to make a case, because deadline is tomorrow night.
I still need to think about FML some. The possibility that they have a vigilante safeclaim is definitely there, and the extra icing of being a paranoid cop doesn't fit with the other claims so far.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
Yeah, it's completely ordinary for their to be at least three of the same role in a setup A role that normally instant-clears you, to boot.
You're acting as though this doesn't come as a surprise to you, and I don't know what the means for your slot.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
*there
(tired)
(tired)
I'm not voting anybody right now ... just saying because I feel like you have a pretty wrong perception of my slot this game:
Seriously, what are you talking about? It's not like I've chosen to be in a neighborhood with you -.-
And if I had been trying to manipulate you why I have I hardly talked to you at all in our conversation topic? You're not making sense. If you just want to get rid of me because you don't like me then just say it but don't pull bull**** like this and make up arguments out of thin air.
Seriously, at this point I don't know what say anymore. Whatever I say is turned against me with no consideration. None of the people that are voting me right now have come up with a good reason for it - it's almost entirely the same old, shallow "I don't like his play" stuff or some REALLY farfetched and terrible arguments ... me trying to prevent the lynch of my neighbor makes me scum? FML failing to Vig me makes me scum? Yeah, that's totally not how the game works and at this point it should be ample clear that mafia really wants this lynch to happen so open your eyes and quit being ********.
I also don't like how claims started to dominate the discussion. Ever since FML claimed this whole game kinda went down the drain, I still don't see any town intent behind his moves but since nobody seems to be interested in hearing what I have to say I'm gonna drop it and focus my efforts on Kantrip and Jexs who are the most suspicious slot in the game.
I also don't like how claims started to dominate the discussion. Ever since FML claimed this whole game kinda went down the drain, I still don't see any town intent behind his moves but since nobody seems to be interested in hearing what I have to say I'm gonna drop it and focus my efforts on Kantrip and Jexs who are the most suspicious slot in the game.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
good lord what the hell is going on here?
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
being a 1/vig is the new VT, that's what happened.