Official Stage Legality Discussion

[Rokk141]

I think we should be discussing more observations on the stages rather than what simply should and should not be banned.

Battlefield - Flat surface with multiple platforms. The bottom curves up, aiding recovery. Nothing stands out to give any one character an advantage over another. I think everyone agrees should be neutral.

Final Destination - Completely flat. Edge hangs out, gimping some recovery. Everyone also agrees this should be neutral.

Delfino Plaza - Each stop offers different advantages to different characters. The moving platform is basic, almost battlefield-like. First stop is the mound of earth with water as pits. Seems rather neutral. Second stop is three small rectangles of earth with water as pits. It seems to favor an aerial game more than anything. Third stop has a very small wall I don't think will be exploitable. It has walk off ledges. Fourth stop has walk off ledges probably more dangerous than the third since it has a dip rather than the wall. Fifth stop is a flat platform with water at the ends. Final Destination-like. Also noteworthy is that the stage switching happens slowly and is unlikely to cause someone's death. I would doubt any three-stock would go any longer than those. In my opinion, it should be neutral. All the stops are short enough to not be drastically advantageous to either side.

Luigi's Mansion - The floor of the second story is two-thirds solid, and would create a mini-cave of life. Destroying the pillar on the first floor would get rid of that. The pillars hinder projectiles, but they can be destroyed. You can't really camp in any certain section since the pillars can be destroyed away from you. I see no reason for this stage to be banned. The hindrance of projectiles might cause it to be counterpick, but I would think either counterpick or neutral would be valid.

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 - Short ceiling. The slow scrolling is not inherently flawed, but the large amount of walls could very easily lead to infinite combos causing KOs. I don't see this being neutral. I don't like to say stages should be outright banned one week after the game came out, so I would lean toward counterpick, with the possibility of being banned.

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 - Massive cave of life. Only real KO possibility is to the left side. It also has a good amount of walls that could possibly lead to infinite KOs. I'm much more inclined to consider this stage banned.

As a note on these two stages. You can ban one while having the other be counterpick. You would simply decide upon 1-1 and then if the stages is 1-2, immediately cancel the match and try again. Realistically this would only have to be tried three or four times max, and would not take much time at all.

Mario Circuit - The cars have no real KO ability except at very large percentages. There is a map on the back of the stage and arrows that alert you when cars are near. They are a non-issue. Both the top and bottom have walk-off ledges. The top might not be as bad since you can stay in the middle platform, but D3 could potentially chain grab you for a KO anywhere else. That alone would keep it from being neutral in my opinion. Whether it is counterpick or banned will most likely depend on more information being discovered about the limits of D3's chain grab.

Rumble Falls – Slow scrolling most of the time. There is a wall a few seconds up but I due to the nature of the stage I doubt anything would be exploitable, at least not for any length of time. There is one spike that can kill as low as 30%. The spikes a bit further up can kill off the top at fairly low percentages when they first appear. There are a few walls that could lead to KOs. Characters with low jumping ability are disadvantaged, keeping the stage from neutral in my opinion. Since it scrolls slowly and is highly predictable I don’t think that will be a big concern. I think the biggest issue that might lead to its being banned is the spikes and their ability to kill very easily. I would say counterpick for now.

Bridge of Eldin – Not much to say here. King Bulbin is highly predictable and does not have very much KO ability. The bomb is obvious after he charges across. The walk-off edges could lead to D3 chain-grab KOs. That would keep it from being neutral, and once again we would need to wait for more information regarding any ways to break D3s chain grab, either through character choice or actual abilities, before completely banning it.

Pirate Ship – All the obstacles are very predictable. The catapult is visible for a good while before it shoots. The bombs are slow and you can predict where they are going to land, although they do have decent KO ability. The wind is obvious. There is a visual and audio notice before it hits the rock. I see no reason for this stage to be banned.

This is taking me awhile to type up as I’m playing matches as I write this to make sure it is accurate, so I will type more stages later today or tomorrow. I think I can say with a certainty that Warioware Inc. and Mario Bros. should be banned due to their unusual nature. From what I’ve seen, New Pork City and Flat Zone 2 should also be banned. 75m possibly as well for the same reason as New Pork City. I’m going to refrain from making any other judgments until later.

 

[dak0tah]

For now I say the following should be banned:

Flat Zone
Mario Bros.
New Pork City
Norfair
Skyworld
Spear Pillar
WarioWare, Inc.

Everything else can be tried out at tournaments and see how it goes. Brawl just came out last week.

this is the first list i agree with except definatly add 75m and maybe maybe maybe take off Norfair and Skyworld for the time being. i personnally hate both, but dont feel their completely unbalanced. a list of definate nuetrals is easy enough to agree on(FD, BF, SV, NYI, etc), and everything else is counterpick until future notice.

 

[PinkPwnageFrenzy]

Corneria has projectiles. And you can avoid the walk off edges by staying on the upper platforms.

Yeah, I have no problems with Castle Siege, I was just stating that it wasn't neutral like the other stages on the list.

About Frigate, like I said, I'm not particularly good at, it was just an opinion. I've had my share of misfortunes on that stage, maybe I'll practice the safe zones then.

Pirate Ship is leaning more towards counter pick for me, I was just indecisive at the time I made the post.

The thing that I don't like about Norfair is that it completely halts the battle for a period of time.

Pink, that's way too many bans for this early on.

That's what I'd like to see banned, just for equality for everyone. But I mean hey, I have no problems with projectile camping, chaingrabbing, wallgrabbing/pinning, etc., I main Dedede. I'm just trying to consider everyone.

 

[Serris]

Skyworld opens the possibility of getting spiked through the clouds, provided the terrain's gone. (Which isn't that hard to do on that stage.)

Jungle Japes is relatively safe now, because the characters can swim and recover from the water. (Tried it with Samus and Snake three times each and it worked.) As for the Klap Traps and Ike, learn to live with it.

Flat Zone 2 has predictable stage hazards, because they're always in a set order. That's why it's on my counterpick list.

Also, I don't see what the huge problem is with Frigate Orpheon. It's pretty hard to get yourself killed on that one, even with the flipping. (This coming from a person who uses heavyweight and otherwise slow characters.) Counterpick, for now.

 

[dak0tah]

The thing that I don't like about Norfair is that it completely halts the battle for a period of time.

if your refering to the lava waves(which i assume you are), i couldnt disagree more. i ve seen people knock opponents into the lave before retreating to the oppisite side or safehouse, as well as awesome combos pulled off in the safehouse. if the doors close with two people inside, and one times a jab right, they can rack up the damage before the lava passes and they escape. also, if you have a FS ready, you can wait in the safehouse for them to enter and unleash, does wonders with MK, link, etc. granted smash balls are banned but still

 

[fargokraft]

interesting development!
don't know if many care about this,
but in regards to the Bridge of Eldin.
You can attack Bulbin? W/e you call him-
I call him the orc on the pig. haha

but yeah- if you do enough damage, he won't drop a bomb :D '3

just a thought. I don't think that's a concern as far as banning it,
but its still neat information.

 

[methinkso]

Flat Zone 2 has predictable stage hazards, because they're always in a set order. That's why it's on my counterpick list.

I agree with the other stuff in your post, but Flat Zone 2 is just way too obstructive to even be considered, IMO. Particularly the lion cage form. It's impossible to have a decent fight on that form because the lion tamers move from one place to another instantly without warning, they have huge hitboxes, and they have ridiculous knock-back. Simply walking from one end of the stage to the other is dangerous.

And then there's the issue of DDD's chaingrab on that stage because of the walk offs.

 

[Eten]

Dedede's chaingrab is still up in the air. Some characters can't be chaingrabbed due to weight/size, others are finding escapes through use of certain moves, like up-B. We HAVE to let the meta-game develop in stages with walk-offs before they are banned in tourney play.

 

[GCH]

I'm against Flat Zone 2. Hazards are a big no no and while they are predictable the stage is rather small and it might turn into a sad "wrong place at the wrong time" moments. And a trip could prove deadly.

I'm predicting a ban.

 

[Samus1031]

ok i understand that this is un official but wat i dont understand is assuming that norfair being a counter and mario circiut being banned

 

[Dacvak]

Thanks for ruining my thread, Mic. Much appreciated.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147339

~Dac

 

[Timeaisis]

Im basically agreeing with the generalized list, but it seems you guys most of all can't agree on Skyworld and Eldin. I'm not saying outright ban, but Skyworld has got those annoying destroyable floors that you can't drop through/jump through until their broken. For me, recovery becomes a *****. If you fall through and then the floor 'respawns' then your just screwed. Its happened to me before...

As for Eldin...I can see it both ways. Yeah, Bulbin in predictable, but the jumping out of the way, and the destruction of the middle of the bridge really disrupts gameplay, IMO. For me, at least, I got "momentum" going for me when I'm on a roll. And that just kinda lets both players take a breather for a second, if you catch my drift. Eh...my two cents.

 

[Rokk141]

Norfair – The stage seems relatively predictable. Although you can’t know when it’s going to happen, the camera zooms out and the lava comes slowly in from the sides. The rising lava is noticeable from the background and below the stage. The lava that comes from the background over the entire stage is very easily shielded. The layout of the platforms puts an emphasis on aerial combat that would keep it from being neutral. I don’t see a reason for it to be banned, however.

Frigate Orpheon – I’m really not sure what to think of this stage. The platform on the right of the first layout gimps tether grabs. I’ve seen a few videos of the stage switch causing people to die, so I’m going to refrain from judging the stage until more information is gathered. There might be surefire ways to keep the stage-flip from killing you.

Yoshi’s Island – Basic stage. Platforms on the side rise and fall. No obstacles. Shy-guys do not affect gameplay, neither do the change of seasons. Seems to be a great neutral stage.

Battleship Halberd – The early launch off can easily kill you if you’re not prepared for it, but it’s easily avoidable. The laser is deadly but obvious and avoidable. It might be possible to knock someone into it for a KO. The claw is annoying, but doesn’t seem too unavoidable. The bomb is very obvious and very avoidable. The platform is battlefield-like. In my opinion, it should be considered neutral or counterpick. There’s not really a reason to ban it.

Lylat Cruise – The ship tilts left and right slightly, although not enough to hamper gameplay. No obstacles that can damage or alter gameplay. Neutral stage.

Pokemon Stadium 2 – The stage changes are much more significant this time around. The air one would put an emphasis on aerial combat. The conveyor belts are annoying and alter how you have to play significantly. Since I’m not actually playing right now I’m going to wait to say more about this stage later.

Spear Pillar – Top is like battlefield. The bottom is a cave of life. The pokemon can summon pillars of energy that are pretty random and are guaranteed KOs. The stage can tilt drastically and your controls can become inverted. The pokemon can come out to the stage and start killing people. They can also shoot crescents at you, possibly killing you. This stage should be banned in my opinion.

Port Town Aero Dive – The stage itself is fine. The cars however come very quickly and are capable of killing at very low percentages. They sometimes come across the stage, and seem rather unavoidable if you continue normal play. I would lean more towards banning this stage.

Castle Siege – The first section is a unique design that seems rather balanced. The third section is final destination-like. Any potential problems would be caused by this transition and second sections. Both feature walk-off ledges. The transition section is short enough where you could simply keep your distance from a D3 to avoid a potential chain-grab KO. The second section you could stay on the platforms. The statues would hinder projectiles in that section, and seem rather difficult to break. At this point I see no reason to ban the stage. I would lean more towards neutral than counterpick.

Warioware Inc. – Almost the definition of a banned stage. The minigames can very easily lead to random elements affecting the outcome of a match, such as invulnerability for completing one. Perhaps to offshoot this is an ease of KOing someone who is focusing too much on the minigames. I can very easily see this stage being banned.

Distant Planet – The middle section is sort of odd. The platforms dip down when you stand on them to almost be the level of the lower level. The ramp on the left side is walk-off and could lead to chain-throw KOs, but is easily avoidable. The water that flows down doesn’t keep you from grabbing the ledge and isn’t very significant. The red thing can kill you, but in my experience is easy to avoid. I don’t really see a reason to ban this stage. Possibly counterpick.

Smashville – Great stage. Basically Final Destination with a scrolling platform. Neutral.

New Pork City – Only one word to describe it. It’s huge. The red dog thing is an instant KO, but is pretty easy to avoid. The stage isn’t that bad, it’s just really big. Probably ban because it’s unnecessarily large for a 1v1 and could easily lead to running the entire match.

 

[rm88]

Delfino Plaza and Castle Siege:
I don't think the temporary walk-off ledges are that much of a problem, both are neutral IMO.

Bridge of Eldin:
If Dedede's chaingrab is that bad, this one may be banned... Is it possible to ban a stage only for a specific character? Because otherwise I think it should be neutral.

Distant Planet:
I think the big toad-like thing and the water make DP at least counterpick. I'd personally ban it.

Green Hill Zone:
Walk-off ledges, bad for vertical projectiles... I think it's counterpick. I don't see why it should be banned.

Pokémon Stadium 2:
Way too disrupting. It's not possible to fight "normally" with so much alterations, I'd ban it.

Rainbow Cruise, Rumble Falls, Mushroomy Kingdom:
I'm being too drastic, but scrolling stages greatly alter the way we play. I'd ban them (that's obviously not happening).

Frigate Orpheon:
I have yet to die because of the rotation, I think it may be counterpick.

I share the common opinion on (almost) the rest of the stages. I love Smashville ^^

 

[Crom]

Thanks for ruining my thread, Mic. Much appreciated.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147339

~Dac

Yeah, I liked that thread a little better because the stage list was being updated as new information / arguments came about. The list was turning out pretty good.

It was closed because it was "confusing people" ? If people can't read or understand a thread, they don't have any business debating the topic.

Bah, I hope the Broom does a good job

--

Another video was posted for Frigate Orpheon and I havn't seen anyone comment on it yet.

Skip to the end of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8g_Xt34-Q

Again, this kind of thing has no business in a tournament.

 

[DarkerCompanion]

I'm not sure if this is particularly relevant or mentioned, and I'm not for or against the stage, but I have found on a few occasions in Port Town that the cars are capable of hitting you while you are on the platforms. This took me by suprise because every time it has happened, they looked like they were not, and it seems only a few of the cars are tall enough to do so (but it doesn't seem obvious at the time). This usually only seems to happen on the first "stop", where there are two platforms and the whole stage is at an angle. I've been hit off of both of the two platforms by cars there. Hope this information is relevant.

 

[I.T.P]

I haven't read the whole discussion, but we've been using

neutral:
Smashville
Yoshi's Island(new)
Pokemon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
Battlefield
Final Destinaion

Counterpick:
Delphino Plaza
Skyworld
don't remember what else =X we had a couple of more.

and the rest were banned.

what do you guys say?

 

[Snail]

"The rest banned" seems like a bit of an overkill. There aren't that many stages that actually change gameplay or provide (dis)advantages to the point they should be banned xD

I mostly agree with the list Serris posted on page 8, although Shadow Moses, Norfair and Frigate could be counterpick imo.

 

[Eten]

I think some of us need to approach this with a lot broader mindset. Stages are made up of their course elements- shape, layout, size, hazards... Only two things seem grounds for bannable to me- Clearly defined stalling abuse, such as the temple's circular path, and randomness, such as wariowares mini-game bonuses. This is because both hurt competitive play, the randomness involves too much luck in the few games tournament matches are decided, and stalling in the temple manner is grossly uncounterable.

Second, there is nothing that defines "normal". False assumptions I"ve seen made such as that Final Destination is more normal in layout than the 5 platforms of norfair because norfair can be more aerial based is the kind of reasoning that can disgustingly rearrange tiers. If the arrangement of norfair platforms were grounds for counterpick classification, then the final destination course shape's favor of ground game is basis for having final destination as a counterpick.

All stage selection modifications will rearrange tiers to some degree, but these stage selection limitations must be done simply to reinforce truly competitive play, not because x or y includes minor difference that COULD be an advantage. Neutral stages, however, need to be taken from the perspective that if they were randomly chosen, there is no major difference in gameplay that could provide a degree of luck. IE. if Shadow Moses Island was considered neutral, it could be considered very "lucky" for certain characters that that 1/6 was chosen, while the differences between the other 5 are much less noticable for all characters. In addition, neutral stages should be simple, which I think implies the lack of hazards. However, that is not to say stages with hazards should be banned or are negative components, because hazards are either not random enough or predictable enough to be weighted otherwise just the same as any other course element in just about every course.

This is why the argument for banning Orpheon Frigate is so misled. There is a clear warning, and the effect of stage rotation is consistent. I think it is a hazard or complication that prevents it being simple and defined as a neutral stage, but it is the perfect example of what does not deserve a ban.

Lastly, I have a suspicion that King Dedede's chaingrab will not be so dominating on walk-off courses. Besides the interruption of platforms, and other course elements, the chaingrab list is shrinking everyday as more characters find moves to use in which they can exit the chaingrab with. However, this reinforces the point that we -MUST- have solid practical evidence of from actual tournament play first before too many decisions are made.

 

[Rokk141]

Second, there is nothing that defines "normal". False assumptions I"ve seen made such as that Final Destination is more normal in layout than the 5 platforms of norfair because norfair can be more aerial based is the kind of reasoning that can disgustingly rearrange tiers. If the arrangement of norfair platforms were grounds for counterpick classification, then the final destination course shape's favor of ground game is basis for having final destination as a counterpick.

The issue with this is that Final Destination facilitates both ground and aerial combat. The long platform allows a good amount of ground combat to take place and the open air allows aerial combat. It is balanced in that sense because a person who has a bad aerial game is not completely disadvantaged here because they can still rule the ground game. If they were playing on Norfair they would be disadvantaged because their ground game is limited because of the platform layout. That's what makes Final Destination neutral and Norfair a good choice for a counterpick in my opinion.

 

[Eten]

You're still assuming that there is a specific balance that is more normal than the other.

Norfair is counterpick because of hazards.

 

[Firestorm88]

Thanks for ruining my thread, Mic. Much appreciated.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147339

~Dac

Seriously? You ruined the thread in the first post. List of a bunch of stages, no reference to the backroom, tried to sound official, absolutely no explanation. I've already seen people on other sites bashing SmashBoards for its completely horrible ban list even though it's not the SmashBoards ban list.

Frigate Orpheon – There might be surefire ways to keep the stage-flip from killing you.

Jump =)

I haven't read the whole discussion, but we've been using

neutral:
Smashville
Yoshi's Island(new)
Pokemon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
Battlefield
Final Destinaion

Counterpick:
Delphino Plaza
Skyworld
don't remember what else =X we had a couple of more.

and the rest were banned.

what do you guys say?

I say bad. Too many stages banned at this stage of Brawl's life means:
- no real chance given to stages that could very well be counterpick (in Melee, this would be like banning Poke Floats and Rainbow Cruise too quickly)
- negative perception of competitive Smash by the wider Smash and fighting game community due to bans with no real reason.

Banned stages should have reasoning behind them. We didn't really get reasons for Melee bans until way late in its life. By "we" I'm referring to people without Back Room access.

 

[Seifersythe]

I haven't read the whole discussion, but we've been using

neutral:
Smashville
Yoshi's Island(new)
Pokemon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
Battlefield
Final Destinaion

Counterpick:
Delphino Plaza
Skyworld
don't remember what else =X we had a couple of more.

and the rest were banned.

what do you guys say?

Why not read the discussion? Then you'll know what we say.

 

[WiZzDumB]

In Dacvak's thread http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147339 , can someone tell me why Hanenbow is banned?

Edit: Okay. Well, ignoring the thread, why would Hanenbow even be considered banned? What are the pros and cons of the stage?

 

[wWw Dazwa]

We don't talk about Dacvak's thread anymore.

 

[Zink]

dunno about hanenbow, but Spear Pillar is a win for fox thanks to Hyrule-like ability to shoot and run wheee...
I like Orpheon for neutral. The flip gives you FOUR LOUD KLAXONS, plenty of time.
Norfair, I like counterpick. The lava is quite avoidable, and the mass of edges make it pretty cool.
Skyworld banned, those platforms are just too lame. spike through a cloud or usmashed off a ceiling platform= death.
the port town cars are quite lame.
there's plenty of good neutral candidates, no worries there, so let's look at the odder stages as counterpicks to expand the game.

 

[metroid1117]

I have no qualms about Norfair except for the lava that spews from the background - that can be pretty annoying and it's predictability is questionable.

 

[Eten]

There is no reason for Hanenbow to be banned. It's just confusing the first times you play it. And any time someone has a stage related death, it = bias against stage. -person falls into fake water(it actually represents the sound waves I think) and dies- "This stage sucks!" :makes a banned stage list:
I die on all of these stages
-Hanenbow
-Port town: aerodive
-Skyworld
-Orpheon frigate
Ban them!

 

[Chicobo329]

Playing in Green Hill Zone is an interesting experience! The checkpoint camping I've been seeing is annoying, but I suppose it's not too practical even if you have projectiles. All it really does is just stall, especially since you're stick in a very close area around the checkpoint. Why not counter with projectiles of your own? Olimar could just toss Pikmin or use his longer range attacks, Snake has missles and grenades to counter. I'm sure it just requires a careful approach to the camper. Plus the checkpoint moves around often anyway.

The floors seem to fall by random but I notice sometimes if I hit the ground, I see chunks of ground fly up. I can't say for certain (I'm sure others have) that the floor falls at random. In any event I think this is good for keeping the fight moving along in other areas. It may bring the fight more to the edges depending on how much of the floor falls. I like using the floor falling to test my wall jumping. The bottom blast line isn't terribly close; if you're caught unprepared, wall jump up!

Everyone seems to think Dedede's chain grab is the end-all technique that drives stage bans, but I think one character alone shouldn't influence this. It seems to me that people are finding more ways to get out of it and it's too early to say such a technique would run rampant and uncounterable.

 

[nviv]

This is why the argument for banning Orpheon Frigate is so misled. There is a clear warning, and the effect of stage rotation is consistent. I think it is a hazard or complication that prevents it being simple and defined as a neutral stage, but it is the perfect example of what does not deserve a ban.

I couldn't agree more, by leaving more maps unbanned you are increasing the depth of the game, people can perfect strategies on maps to take advantage of set predetermined hazards. There are only a few things that i feel warrant banning a stage. First is randomness, for example Warioware's minigames giving off a random item to a winner of the minigame. Second is the ability to stall indefinitely, although Pit could potentially do this on almost any stage with ledges that can be banned, stalling on a map like Temple or New Pork City is easier and would be impossible to ban because you can't tell someone to stand still and let their opponent catch up to them. Finally, this one is more debatable, I feel that Mario Bros should be banned, even with the creatures it seems extremely difficult to kill your opponent and people live to a considerably higher percantage than any other stage

 

[OTRU...]

mic_128 would you mind posting the legal stages on your first post?

its really difficult to find useful info on this thread due to all the spam, therefore having it on the first post would save everyone the task of finding it

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I feel that Mario Bros should be banned, even with the creatures it seems extremely difficult to kill your opponent and people live to a considerably higher percantage than any other stage

I'd ban Mario Bros. for the exact opposite reason, characters seem to get killed at very low percentage on it. At least when I play.

40-60% and you're dead, usually.

 

[potemkant]

Seriously? You ruined the thread in the first post. List of a bunch of stages, no reference to the backroom, tried to sound official, absolutely no explanation. I've already seen people on other sites bashing SmashBoards for its completely horrible ban list even though it's not the SmashBoards ban list.



Jump =)



I say bad. Too many stages banned at this stage of Brawl's life means:
- no real chance given to stages that could very well be counterpick (in Melee, this would be like banning Poke Floats and Rainbow Cruise too quickly)
- negative perception of competitive Smash by the wider Smash and fighting game community due to bans with no real reason.

Banned stages should have reasoning behind them. We didn't really get reasons for Melee bans until way late in its life. By "we" I'm referring to people without Back Room access.

I registered just to tell you this is an excellent post. I've been involved in other competitive communities besides Melee, but Melee is always mocked because of the constant banning on anything with the slightest hint of randomness. Randomness is not bad; a good player will react to that randomness in a way that provides an advantage to him. The Toon Link stage is an excellent example; when the boat is in a tornado, for example, Spikes are effective rather than horizontal killing moves, or another boat approaching lets you jump back and forth between the two, using the airtime more effectively than jumping out of the water. In my opinion, it's one of the best stages for competitive play.

 

[Firestorm88]

mic_128 would you mind posting the legal stages on your first post?

its really difficult to find useful info on this thread due to all the spam, therefore having it on the first post would save everyone the task of finding it

Legal: All
Banned: None

Unless the BackRoom wants to release information before they finalize it, that's what we have to go by.

I still would rather have a board viewable by the public but only allowed to be posted in by Back Room so that we can see the decisions and how they're being made but not screw it up with stupid posts like... well, every topic involving competitive anything. Oh and ban anyone who annoys someone with PMs =)

 

[PinkPwnageFrenzy]

It's easier if they just have it the way it is now. It's so all of them can come to a general agreement before releasing anything, to avoid confusion.

 

[D.A.N.]

why would Hanenbow even be considered banned? What are the pros and cons of the stage?

If you didn't notice, the leaves of Hanenbrow pick up the hit box of attacks, which can be a bit of a problem for competitive play. Since attacks don't go through the platforms much, it can make actually hitting people take forever, and any projectile game can be defended against simply by finding a leaf and hitting it to a certain angle.

 

[Geist]

I seriously think that starting off with the least amount of banned stages as possible is the best idea. Spamming the ban card everytime someone encounters a hazard painfully restricts gameplay. More than half the stages that are on most of these lists sould be neutral or counterpick, not completely banned because someone ran into a bad experience one time.

Some stages do seriously need restrictions from tournament play, I really don't even need to point out names. What needs to be banned in a stage is near unavoidable or random hazards, like warioware, or a stage that gives an unneccessary advantage to a certain character, eg pit or fox on a large stage like hyrule. If a hazard isn't random and is easily predicted, or does minor damage is fine in my opinion.

I kind of disagree with your justification of why hanenbow should be banned D.A.N. If any character can tactifully guard against another character's projectile game with the leaves, then the stage shouldn't be banned. That would be similar to banning spacies because they have reflectors. That can shut down projectile games.

 

[Rokk141]

It's easier if they just have it the way it is now. It's so all of them can come to a general agreement before releasing anything, to avoid confusion.

It wouldn't be hard to label certain things as official. I personally would be very interested to read discussions by well-informed and experienced players.

 

[Rhubarbo]

What's been on my mind lately is if Frigate Orpheon should be neutral or counterpick. It does give quite the distinct warning before flipping, but if you are in the middle of recovering/intercepting e.c.t. you are pretty much screwed over.

Also, should Distant Planet be banned because of the walk-off? Other than that aspect of the stage, I find it perfectly legal. There is a warning prior to the rain fall, and you should simply know how long to stay on the Bulborb.

Also, should Pokemon Stadium 2 be a counterpick? I know it sounds odd due to it's zany tendencies, but it does provide a fair playing field for all fighters. The only thing that's a hinderance to it is the air transformation.

Also, should Delfino Plaza be neutral?

Those four have all been on my mind lately and I'm sure are open for discussion.

 

[Crom]

Another video was posted for Frigate Orpheon and I havn't seen anyone comment on it yet.

Skip to the end of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8g_Xt34-Q

Again, this kind of thing has no business in a tournament.

Still waiting for someone to explain this one away. Any stage capable of this shouldn't be in tournaments