Since I have horrible Multiquoting skills, I'll have to break up my counter arguement to parallel yours
Well sorry, most mainers of Sonic I see here and on Gamefaqs are VERY delusional, so I have a tendency to take them less than seriously
You lose credibility once you start insulting people.
Or at least showing your stupidity.
Here's a few I would name for bad Sonic matchups
Both DKs
Diddy yes.
DOnkey no.
Sonic is neutral against Donkey for the following reasons.
Mainly due to his ability to punish Sonic can control the spacing beyond Donkey Kong. He can quickly get up close and quickly escape. If Sonkey Kong does land a hit Sonic can easily use his spring to escape.
By controlling spacing it will be difficult for Donkey Kong to catch a hold of Sonic. His large size also makes t much easier for Sonic to combo him and sonic can also double Fair Donkey off the stage without worry.
Due to Donkey Kong
s large arms though sonic has to play defensively while controlling spacing. He must also be careful when attacking Donkey kong directly because Donkey Kong's ground game far excels that of Sonic. If Sonic plays defensively and forces his opponent into making amistake,Sonic can punish Donkey repeatedly but can't linger since one hit from Donkey can easily kill him and the quick speed of Donkey's OverB can lead Sonic in for a nasty Punch in the face.
Agreed
I mentioned him earlier.
Agreed.
No.Just no.
Neutral.
Pit has no glaring advantages over SOnic.
all of Sonic's attacks remove pikmin from his body and the fact that Sonic is excellent at getting close means olimar will have an issue if he lets Sonic get too close.
There is also the fac tthat onc Sonic gets Olimar off the stage Olimar is going to be hard pressed to recover.
agreed
Not a bad matchup I feel more towards the neutralside.
Mainly because sonic gets through projectile spam.
The whole point for Sonic is mainly to get TL above him or off the stage.
He'll hve to rely mainly on his grab game due to his good dash grab range and he has to rely on his Uair to get early kills(though this is said for everyone)
A dthrow to a Fair off the stage will kill TL.
A semispike Dair will kill him.
TL will have to mainly stay on the ground since Sonic cannot do well on the ground.
While TL does well in the air it isn't to his obvious advantage and a small mistake can lead to TL being in negative airspace where Sonic is at his best and TL is at a ddefinite disadvantage.
Agreed
7:3 in Falco's
No. Just no. Seriously.
Whether you read them as minor disadvantages or hard counters, that's a decently big list
That leaves 10 (counting wolf and Luigi whom you missed) disadvantages some of which are minor in which Sonic can win depending on how he capitalizes ont he mistakes.
That is littleless than 1/3 of the cast.
Shall I list Bowser's matchup now?
Who is mid tier and has more than 1/2 of the matchups in his disadvantage,most of which are his worst.
In fact a good amount of the cast has a disadvantage with slightly more or less than 1/3rd of the list.
Yet Sonic still ends up low tier?
Especially when there are characters in mid tier who haven't done so well in the tournaments?
First off, MK has kill moves, and he doesn't even need them for the most part because he can simply chase you off the stage to your doom. Like said SEVERAL times in this topic, Anything can kill you from 2 feet awat from the boundry line. That, and He racks up damage at a MUCH faster rate than just about everyone else.
Riiight. MK doesn't rely on chasing to kill his aerial speed is lesser than Sonic's (I think not too sure) and makes him less able to do so.
His Fair and Bair do not kill at 100% when off the stage due to DI while Sonic's can kill even with DI. (Due to Sonic'smore horizontal trajectory in his Fair rather than knockback, an error on my part)
While he can chase more often than not it is in his benefit not to do so.
His main kills come from
Fsmash, Dsmash,^B.
All of which rely on him being at the edge of the stage.
Well Ganon has a good/Great Tech chase, Ganoncide, one of the best spikes in the game, and okay aerials. Why is he still considered bottom? Because just about everything else about him is bad. The same concept applies to Sonic here. BTW, Bowser has quite a few relatively quick moves, potent smashes, Bowsercide,Heavy which can allow for you to make mistakes and not get punished too easily, and has a relatively good time racking up damage
ganoncide=bad It is only viable when he is a stock ahead.
Ganon does not have a good great tech chase.
Sonic can chase down opponents who are aerial.
Ganandorf cannot.
In fact Ganandorf has a hard time chasing ground opponents who have not been flame choked.
His aerial game is on par with Snake it isn't okay its sub par.
sonic's is above.
Bowsercide cannot be done unless off the stage. WHy?
your opponent can move it back to the stage so -1 for you.
Bowser has very feq quick moves and Sonic has more.
He relies heavily on predicting the opponent.
His specials are bad overall
Heavy weight is not an advantage it often means that he can be comboed more easily. the weight doesn't allow you to make more mistakes it makes you more prone to be punished for mistakes.
This is ingoring his large size of course.
Sonic ha a good aerial game.
Good approach game.
Excellent chase ability both in air and on ground.
Has no priority.
Quick moves as well as some with average speed (Bair, Fsmash,Dsmash)
Has two moves with invincibility frames.
Has good edgeguarding has great recovering.
Can combo.
Situational smash attacks
Has a relatively average amount of bad matchup some of which are minor.
Has mostly advantages/neutralmatchups
Bowser: poor aerialgame.
poor approach game
not much for chasing
Few combos.
Has good priority.
Has a few quick moves but slow moves as well.
Cannot edge guard well.
Cannot combo well.
Has bowsercide
Situational smash attacks
Has many bad matchups a larger amount of which are major.
Few neutral/advantageous matches.
Of Bowser goes on the offensive the lack of approaches means he will get hit often. THe increase in projectile users makes this even more prominent. His large size alsomeans he will take hits that normally would not hit the average sized character so his weight doesn't compensate enough for this issue.
If he does hit the opponent he has a harder time keeping up the pressure and while he can KO early, he'll have more difficultyKOing the opponent due to his slow speed.
Move decay makes it more difficult for him to abuse his quick attacks.
If he gets the opponent off the stage he cannot continously attack the opponent due to his slow speed and low vertical ability.
As for Sonic the amount of approaches he has a greater, many of which allow him to get up close quickly, limiting the amount of damage he will take. His attacks are average in speed with a few quick ones (namely Ftilt, Fair, Nair etc). The abuse of quick attacks is not an issue since the average speed of his other attacks isn't asmuch an issue if they were the speed of bowser's.
He has difficulty KOing and difficulty outprioritizing the enemy.
however the amount of damage he can inflict makes up for this as well as his ability to edge guard opponents. Worst case scenario he oly injurs the opponent on their way back to the stage. His spring allows him to quickly follow up any attacks that send the opponent up even when off the stage.
Please tellme as to why Bowser is mid tier despite the inability to approach, combo, and edge guard as well as large amount of disadvantages.
Now I'm not saying I agree that you should switch mains because one who plays similar to another is in a highter, but Sonic's learning curve is not nearly as high as you think.
wut?
To play a proper MK takes more than just spamming Tornados, it's actually harder than learning Sonic who isn't that hard to learn at all.
WTF?
You just lost a massive amount of credibility when you typed that out.
And did you honestly just say that his Spring and Homing attacks KO at normal or even relatively high Brawl killing percents?
He meant gimping.
Dsmash doesn't kill that well at all.
Just like MK's Dsmash they have to be at the far side of the arena.
Seriously use the character.
The reason it doens't "Kill" well is because just like DDD's Fsmash it comes out slowly and lags at the end.
You can also increase its range but ts more difficult.
The only one you got even close to right was his Fsmash, and that's easily telegraphed by skilled players.
Um no?
Fsmash comes out as fast as Mario's Fsmash.
That's average not easily telegraphed.
Not to mention stutter stepping improves the range and makes it more viable in usage.
Who hasys it's all about the power, espiacially in ANY conversation concerning Sonic.
Coming from a guy who just said that Sonic has a mslal learning curve compared to MK.
Or that his Dsmash doesn't kill well.