Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Metro Knight]

Your tier list, seems so... wolf is low tier? Zelda is on the top? That list is pretty bunk, the top part almost seem legit.

 

[MyReincarnation]

I've gotten better

This is my new tier list, I believe it's MUCH better than my first one.

Top:

Snake
Marth
Meta Knight
Falco

High:

R.O.B
Mr. Game & Watch
Toon Link
Olimar
King DeDeDe
Diddy Kong
Wario
Pit
Pikachu
Lucas

Med High:

Ness
Wolf
Fox

Med:

Zelda
Shiek
Lucario
Luigi
Peach
Mario
Donkey Kong
Samus
Ice Climbers
Charizard
Bowser (messed up how ppl put him in low when hes improved so much)
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus

Low:

Ivysaur
Link
Jigglypuff
Ike
Yoshi
Squirtle
Ganondorf

Bottom:

Sonic
Captain Falcon

 

[Grunt]

@Reincarnation

Well, it's ok, but Game and Watch and IC should both be higher, especially IC.
Pit can't kill, and needs to be moved down a bit, and wolf has a crappy recovery, and would move him lower. Peach, isn't quite that good anymore, and would mover her and fox down a bit. Pika, Lucas and Ness deserve better than both of them.

 

[Kit-Tsukasa]

Fox, Wolf, and Ice climbers are too low, and Zelda is too high. I'm to lazy to point out the other things wrong with it.

Wolf is low because of his poor recovery. It has great distance but the recovery itself is too easy to mess up and easy to gimp at the same time.
Fox is medium because of the large downgrade from Melee. He lost speed, shine spike (it's somewhat there, but not effective), combo abilities. The only thing that he really has in my opinion is that up-smash and uair like he did in all the other games.
Ice Climbers is because once they're separated and the other one is KO'd, one alone is really not that great. No recovery like in Melee either when one is by itself.

As for Zelda, I agree that I may have been a bit carried away because I've mained her in both Melee and now Brawl so that decision is biased. However, I put her top tier not only because of that, but also because of her incredible move pool.
Din's Fire is really only considered a threat by G&W, Nayru's Love for mind games/reflect, good offensive and defensive recovery, the kick is beastly as ever, her smashes are all quick, have good range, and have good knockback. Her tilts are all fast and strong or easy to combo into or with, and she has legit spikes now. Only two problems I see are being able to be accurate with some moves and the recovery which I think is much harder to control than it was in Melee.

um kit tsukase, you realize that his bike gives him an excellent vertical boost, right?

I'm very well aware of that as I play Wario quite frequently despite not planning on maining him. However, it's easy to counter in my opinion and too predictable.

Your tier list, seems so... wolf is low tier? Zelda is on the top? That list is pretty bunk, the top part almost seem legit.

See what I wrote earlier.

 

[Metro Knight]

This seems pretty good, though I'd raise Zelda, DK, ZSS (i watched some videos and changed my mind), Kirby and the Ice climbers to med-high, than i'd swap Mario and Link around, but that list is much better than the first one.

This is my new tier list, I believe it's MUCH better than my first one.

Top:

Snake
Marth
Meta Knight
Falco

High:

R.O.B
Mr. Game & Watch
Toon Link
Olimar
King DeDeDe
Diddy Kong
Wario
Pit
Pikachu
Lucas

Med High:

Ness
Wolf
Fox

Med:

Zelda
Shiek
Lucario
Luigi
Peach
Mario
Donkey Kong
Samus
Ice Climbers
Charizard
Bowser (messed up how ppl put him in low when hes improved so much)
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus

Low:

Ivysaur
Link
Jigglypuff
Ike
Yoshi
Squirtle
Ganondorf

Bottom:

Sonic
Captain Falcon

 

[Gindler]

Are all these lists screwed up or do tiers just not matter in brawl?

Cause everyone puts snake on top and C. Falcon on bottom. But around here a really good C. Falcon main defeated a really good snake main, and yes snake did do all the "gay" things so he wasn't holding back nor did he suck alot.

 

[Conda]

Good for that CFalcon. He's still bottom tier.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Are all these lists screwed up or do tiers just not matter in brawl?

Cause everyone puts snake on top and C. Falcon on bottom. But around here a really good C. Falcon main defeated a really good snake main, and yes snake did do all the "gay" things so he wasn't holding back nor did he suck alot.

Vids or it didn't happen. /sarcasm

Oh, and one instance of a Falcon beating a Snake does not trump the community's collective opinion on Snake's overall metagame (not saying that it's absolute, merely an overall consensus). There's just so much that Snake has going for him that ****ing Falcon doesn't. Snake's got longevity (weight), disjointed hitboxes on his REGULAR A MOVES, REGULAR A MOVES/TILTS THAT KILL, SMASHES THAT KILL, and projectiles/traps that offer an amazing array of options for his approaches/stage control.

What does Falcon have over Snake? Speed? Manliness? The Knee? In this go around, it's not enough. Snake can stop Falcon's approach cold, simply because it's difficult for Falcon to approach to start with (no projectiles, nerfed aerials from Melee, etc).

And, no offense? I don't think that Snake was playing very well.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Tetsuro]

I personally think that people are being too hard of Fox. Yes he has been nerfed and is no longer on top as he was in melee, but he is by no means a bad character and has great matchups against most of the top tier characters. In my opinion he is high tier, because although he is pretty basic, he has great tilts, smashes, and ariels, an amazing recovery, as well as some of the few true combos in brawl. It is my feeling that we haven't been seeing many foxes winning tournies simply because not many people are showing him love after his nerfs.

 

[Lenvil]

a tier list is hard to determine this early. i always underestimate characters and then find out they have a lot of fans. for example, i used to think diddy kong and shiek sucked, but i know people who win tournaments with them.

 

[Conda]

Lenvil, this is a discussion. Go away if all you want to say is "wait 1 year from now where a tier list emerges from nowhere."

 

[SwastikaPyle]

My personal list, based on the thousands of videos I've watched and my own playing experiences:

God tier:
Snake (my god, the hitboxes. Every move is a kill move.)
Meta Knight (whorenado, anyone? And the dsmash...my god)
Falco(the lasers can gimp anything and everything)

High:

G&W
Rob (is there anything those jets can't hit? + godlike recovery)
Toon Link (Ridiculous recovery, great spike and smash attacks)
Olimar (how the hell does this little ******* destroy everything)
Pit (Press B for damage)
Zelda (Those smash attacks are insane. Also, Din's fire anyone?)
Wario (How is this guy so good?)
DeDeDe (Incredible power, incredible recovery, incredible aerials)
Donkey Kong (didn't see those smash attacks coming)

Medium:
Ness (**** his dash attack and fair.)
Lucas (jesus, the UP SMASH)
Ike (Incredible power, but easily gimped recovery)
Marth (Sorry, he's slower then he was in melee, and he's lost the incredible range.)
Pikachu (Jesus christ in a chicken basket at his new and improved down smash. Also, THUNDER)
Wolf (Plenty of power, difficult recovery)
Fox (What happened to you? The speed is gone)
Zamus (She's got loads of potential, but she's extremely difficult to use properly)
Kirby (he's so tiny and hard to hit. Too bad he flies like a balloon)
Link (tough to use, but well rounded)




The people I haven't named are low to bottom tier.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

dk is probably much higher up, he has really good matchups against two of the most popular characters out there (metaknight and snake) so he seems to place well at tournaments

 

[Melee1]

Metaknight and snake will be top two. Tooooo many reasons why.

 

[TehBo49]

I doubt Top tier. Maybe Mid Tier or High Tier due to poor vertical recovery (fart usually won't get charged soon enough so can't really include that as part of recovery. It also wrecks Wario on Melee stages since he ends up killing himself on a lot of them) and his horizontal recovery is easily wrecked if he doesn't have the bike. He does last for a long time though with the exception of against certain characters like Fox, Ike, and Marth (if tipped). However, his moves are indeed strong and he's got a nice spike (?) I think.

My (personal) updated tier list (characters not listed in any specific order):

Top Tier:
-Toon Link
-Zelda
-Marth
-Snake
-Falco
-R.O.B.

High Tier:
-Mr. Game and Watch
-MetaKnight
-Kirby
-Luigi
-Diddy Kong
-Ike

I stopped reading there.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Mike_Echoes]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

Bravo! *Clap Clap*

I personally have no problems with this Tier List.
We'll see what other people have to say.

But good job

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I still think Ypshi should be at the top of low, Ness isn't hurt THAT bad against the CGs. Olimar and Zelda both should get a good move up. Bowser's good, but I still think he's a far cry from High Tier, definite High Mid. Wario should take his place there. While Pit is a noob killer, unlike Ike he's still good overall, definately high. I don't Luigi could be High tier at this point, His matchups are pretty meh, and hasn't done relatively well in tourneys at all

 

[St. Viers]

I'd say switch bowser and DK. DK has a lot more going for him, plus better tournie results.

Lucas should be higher, as the CG is only by 2-3 chars, and his strengths FAR outweigh his weaknesses.

Besides that, I'd just like to point out that wolf CAN auto grab the edge, I dunno why you said he can't >_<

 

[jiovanni007]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

Clearly the best I've seen so far and you're informed enough to put Kirby in his proper spot without looking like a fanboy. The only minor qualms I have is Bowser in high tier, I would put him right below Wario in the middle tier seeing as many people below him match-up very well against him. Lucario should be moved up to the top of middles tier, but no higher. He's good, but he really doesn't hang with the high tier because most of them can score a kill on him under 100% which is pretty much his magic number. The only major problem is the Sheik placement, I still don't understand all of the Sheik hate. She's not bad, she's just not as good as she was in Melee. She still has some of the best tilts in the game (ftilt is absolutely beast), her recovery was slightly buffed (force of air pushes opponent away if she appears near them but outside of the burn hitbox) so its no longer completely taboo for her to upB onto the stage, and she still maintains some power in the form of her Bair, Dsmash and Usmash. One of those can be impractical at times, but that's why she's just middle tier and not top tier anymore. Obviously people played Sheik in Melee because she was good, not because she was cool. Now that she's just mediocre, most people have moved on, including myself. We need some Sheik mains in here to help make a logical argument for her place in mid tier.

Other than the aforementioned, your list is well, the best. We may see your top tier get split into a top and upper but the placement is still great.

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ NSS: Ness might be up, but I still think Yoshi is at bottom of high. Olimar I really don't think should be any higher, Zelda should be higher though. I'm thinking top of mid for Zelda, followed by Bowser. Wario could be where Bowser is now, I guess. I don't think Pit should be high, maybe I'll move him above Lucario. Luigi... jury's still out on that one, he might go where Pit is now.

@ St. Viers: Bowser is moved down, DK up. Lucas might go below Fox at best. And Wolf CAN grab the edge, but his upB doesn't auto-sweetspot.

@ jiovanni: I could see Sheik moving above Samus, but she's definitely not above Sonic or Ike.

 

[Metro Knight]

I'd swap Luigi and Wario. Marth has a shorter sword, at least in the American Version, umm, that list is ok, but you are missing somethings.

 

[St. Viers]

^^wow, what a constructive post....

 

[Browny]

SonicHis recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable.

wait what.

how do you gimp something which gives invincibility frames and allows attacking afterwards?

 

[SheikSmasher]

zelda should be high and sheik middle

 

[Iachoku]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

Easily the best tier list I've seen thus far.
However, strongly disagree with Sonic's placement on this list, as well as every other one I can remember.
I won't disagree for a second that Sonic doesn't have a rather high learning curve. I love Sonic to pieces, though because of the difficulty of learning how to properly use him, and my frustration over not being as good as I wanted to be with him, I came close to giving up on him multiple times.
In the right hands, Sonic is a beast. I doubt I need to point out his insane, and unparalleled speed. Sonic is also a pro at racking up damage. I've stocked friends and lvl.9 computers alike without even taking a single hit every so often. An excellent strategy with Sonic is to operate a hit-and-run maneuver with dash attacks, spin dashes, and up-smashes, and once you get their damage high enough to produce sufficient knock back to send them into the air, chase them and pummel them with dairs, fairs, and uairs.
He's also probably the second best edge-guarder in Brawl (Meta Knight being the first, in my opinion). You can chase characters off stage with aerials and homing attacks, and make it back safely with that amazing recovery of his.
Also, as for a lack of killing moves, every time I hear that, it bothers the ever living s*** out of me.
His dair, f-smash, and d-smash are excellent killing moves. And f-smash has deceptively impressive range. His fair, uair, and homing attacks are also good kill moves, though they are slightly more situational. Even his u-tilt has kill potential.
Also, Sonic absolutely owns the heavier characters.

Anyways, what I'm getting at is tiers shouldn't be based on learning curve, which is what I've been seeing thus far. The characters with higher learning curves are always lower on the list. Though it's sort of expected considering the game has only been out for a few months.

But what do I know, I am a n00b after all.

 

[SheikSmasher]

not to be out but sheik can kill bowser like that due to his bigness

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

wait what.

how do you gimp something which gives invincibility frames and allows attacking afterwards?

He might play a character that has a lot of range/priority to screw over Sonic's follow up attack?

Otherwise, I don't understand where he's coming from either. Sonic isn't easy to gimp at all considering the pure SPEED of the ascent on the Up-B. Your lucky to even have the opportunity to take advantage of the Up-B at all. >.>

 

[Deleted member]

Jiggs isnt bottom tier. Killing at 60-80 at the highest is amazing in brawl, and dair leads to rest. Her fair was buffed alot and now kills easily, and she can short hop double bair, and her bair is still very goood. As for WoP, she can sort of WoP with nairs and bairs, but it was nerfed. However, jiggs is still a pretty good character, id say high low tier, because u can just say everything that was nerfed, it doesnt matter what she doesnt have because melee is different then brawl. Looking at what she DOES have, shes decent, and definately not bottom tier.

 

[The_Dyne]

wait what.

how do you gimp something which gives invincibility frames and allows attacking afterwards?

Also you can air dodge for more invincible goodness.

 

[Chomp The Fourth]

Tiers are for Tiers man....

 

[MyReincarnation]

I think we should choose a tier list from a respected member and work on that one.

 

[The Executive]

zelda should be high and sheik middle

Noooooooooo, no...no. Zelda is good, but she's mid-tier at best. Faster characters regardless of priority and damage wipe the floor with her (Sheik, for instance, who's been nerfed so hard it physically hurts. Tilts are still passable, though).

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

Meh, Id move Ike up to bottom of mid tier and move Diddy up a bit too. Other than that it's the best tier list I've ever seen here.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Meh, Id move Ike up to bottom of mid tier and move Diddy up a bit too. Other than that it's the best tier list I've ever seen here.

.......
kirby at high tier.... toon link? there both mid tier at most i mean it MID TIER!toon link was big when he came out but now he's predictible gimpable and killable.... Kirby is my Favorite charecter but He dies at 50 % to G&W...

 

[Metro Knight]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

I'd lower Luigi, Bowser, and Yoshi. If you dropped them all by 1 place, that'd probably make them sit well.

 

[Lord Aether]

Oh, and one instance of a Falcon beating a Snake does not trump the community's collective opinion on Snake's overall metagame (not saying that it's absolute, merely an overall consensus).

To add to this, a Captain Falcon beating a Snake doesn't make Captain Falcon good, just makes him a Snake counter.

Granted, Captain Falcon blows **** and Snake is awesome, and Captain Falcon is blown away by Snake completely, but some low tiers have advantages against top tiers that can give them the match so... essentially a top tier does not necessarily destroy a bottom tier, which is the point here.

I can't think of any instances of this, though.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Tiers, take II. I posted edition one about 30 pages back and made some changes based on suggestions.

Top Tier
Snake – No one's arguing this.
Meta-Knight – See above.
Marth – He's just as great as he was in Melee. What he now lacks in speed he makes up for in power.
Mr. Game and Watch – Improved recovery, improved killing power, faster, better shield. G-Dub makes up for his sloppy performance last time around.
Falco – One of the most effective projectile spams, even though it can be ducked by a few characters. His new reflector is both good and bad for him, but it helps eliminate choices for approaching characters. His recovery is no longer terrible since no one falls as fast.
ROB – Good projectiles but they must be charged so he can't spam that effectively. Some of his moves come out fairly slowly, especially some aerials. His recovery, however, is godly and allows him to WOP. A great counter for many characters.

High Tier
Pikachu – His usmash was nerfed, but d-smash stabs shields, racks up damage, and sends the opponent up for a thunder, which was also buffed. His projectile is still very useful on many stages, sideB for recovery now reflects many projectiles, and upB sweetspots almost instantly, not to mention that it can cancel off the ground. His aerials seem a bit less useful though.
Toon Link – Good at linking attacks and great at camping with what's likely the best projectile spam in the game. He’s fast and still has KO power, but he's really quick to die and his recovery and grabs are lackluster.
Wolf – His blaster is pretty annoying, he’s powerful with not that big of a speed loss, and his multi-hit attacks lessen the loss in damage for spammed moves. However, he’s the fastest faller in the game and has a poor recovery that doesn’t even sweetspot the edge.
Ice Climbers – Chain grabs are still just as good. The AI also works much better on Nana, so she doesn’t die as easily. Plus, both Climbers can now grab the edge. IC’s are very strong for such light characters, and Popo can survive by himself more easily now.
Luigi – His recovery is vastly improved with the Luigi Tornado, making his slightly odd combination of sideB and upB more doable. His fireballs take longer to come out but most of his moves have little to no windup lag. However, his floaty nature makes him somewhat hard to control.
King Dedede – Chain grabs again, plus annoying Waddle Dees. He's the hardest character to kill, since he's heavy, he has multiple jumps, and his upB goes very high. His stronger, slower moves are balanced by his disjoint and quick tilts. However, many faster characters can destroy him since he doesn’t have a great defensive strategy.
Bowser – His tilts are actually pretty fast, especially for a slow character. Whirling Fortress still works wonders on light characters that happen to be annoying him. Bowserciding is always an easy-to-pull-off strategy should he find himself in a tough situation or one stock up.
Kirby – Buffed hardcore. He lost his Kirbycide throws, but his aerial hammer is much better and he can still inhale to kill himself or stick his opponent underneath the stage. No projectile, but he can steal his opponent's to cancel it out. Lightweight, but with a good recovery.

Mid Tier
Wario – He’s a very unpredictable character, despite the fact that he’s a dork. His recovery, while it takes forever and is fairly gimpable, is still great. He also lasts forever, and he’s been dominating tournaments.
Donkey Kong – Much like Bowser, he's improved in most aspects. His range is still great, his speed has been upped, and DK-cides are always an option, as are cargo throws. It’s a bit of overkill with a billion spikes, and his vertical recovery is still garbage, but he’s better off than he was last time.
Lucario – This guy has pretty good range on most of his attacks, and a decent projectile even when it's not charged. His pseudo-SHUFFL is always a good thing, and his damage multipliers really help him against characters with lower KO power.
Pit – He has some odd tilts and smashes, but performs pretty well in close range. His projectile is very irritating but does pretty lackluster damage. His recovery is decent when used correctly but can be cancelled fairly easily.
Zelda – Din’s Fire can juggle and is overall a great projectile for edgeguarding, as it forces opponents to airdodge or get *****. Her smashes and aerials have been buffed, and she has a lot of great matchups. However, she’s still light and her recovery is predictable.
Olimar - People were really afraid of this guy early on, but he's so light and his recovery is so awful that there's little to worry about. He annhilates heavy or large characters but can't do a thing about anyone faster than him.
Fox – Not as good as he used to be, but you don't see many people crying about it. He definitely has been nerfed in many respects, but he still has his place to shine.
Diddy Kong – He’s fast and banana-ful, but his recovery must be charged, which is bad against good spikers, especially since he’s so light. His projectile is pretty bad, and 'naners can be used against him. Not as great as people thought initially.
Zero Suit Samus – She’s good in a lot of respects, but her recovery is gimpable even with her third jump, plus her projectile is pretty crappy. Her smash attacks seem gimmicky, and lots of moves are pretty pointless. Good range and fast, but extremely weak and her recovery doesn’t help.
Lucas – Great projectile spam, great edgeguarding with upB, a somewhat gimpable recovery, creepy magnet tricks. He would be in high tier, but he gets chaingrabbed. He might end up even lower.
Yoshi – Better than last time, admit it. His recovery is definitely helped by his newer upB, and his eggs seem to be more useful this time around. The loss of DJC actually helps him in many cases.However, he's still not good enough to get higher than bottom of mid tier.

Low Tier
Mario - Cape isn't as good, FLUDD is on the verge of useless, he can't KO that well. He is slightly redeemed by his ledgeguarding and good approach. He’s not speedy but certainly not slow. Being the all-around character just doesn’t seem to be good enough.
Pokemon Trainer – His Pokemon don't balance out that well, and excel in different parts of the game while severely lacking in others. The fatigue system ends up screwing him over when he has to switch to get a KO. Fun to use, but not that great.
Ike – He’s powerful but very slow. The fact that he was popular very early on makes people know exactly how to beat him. Almost anyone faster than him can beat him easily.
Sonic - Fast runner, slow attacks. Something's wrong here. He does have a good approach, and he can move around the stage incredibly quickly. His recovery is good, but it’s somewhat gimpable. Only people who are willing to put in lots of time should bother with this guy.
Samus – Nerfed. Her smash attacks aren't as good and her missile seems slower. Her spike is still hard to hit with, and she doesn’t have a great way to deal with opponents above her.
Sheik – Triple-nerf. She has very little of what she had back in Melee, so people can find a new most annoying character now. How the mighty have fallen.
Link – This guy just doesn’t deserve to be this bad. Somewhat powerful, but his sluggishness makes him much less playable. His boomerang doesn’t hit on the way back, his arrows don’t go as far as Toon Link’s, and his horizontal recovery is pretty bad.
Ness - He gets chaingrabbed even worse than Lucas, and has fewer redeeming qualities. Although he has a few good matchups, he isn’t much better than he was in Melee. Shame.
Peach - Nothing compared to what she once was. D-smash isn’t that good, and recovery seems nerfed. She retains her lightness and is KO’ed extremely easily.

Bottom Tier
Jigglypuff - Nerfed hard. Rest doesn't kill as early, WOP isn't as impressive since more characters can do it now, plus where most characters die at higher percentages in this game, Jiggz just seemed to stay at the same pitiful death rate.
Ganondorf – He runs slower, attacks slower, and recovers just as badly as he did in Melee. Ganoncide is his only improvement, everything else has gotten way worse.
Captain Falcon - Captain Falcon can't do much of anything this time around. Poor approach, lackluster recovery, no killer knee... he's got it bad. He also rounds out the fact that the bottom tier is made up of Melee’s high tier.


Suggestions are appreciated.

Captain Falcon's Recovery is NOT lackluster. It is above average. But your other points make sense. I think Bowser's placement is a little too high. If you switch him with Olimar it would be perfect. I also think you could switch Zelda with DK. Dk has fantastic range, fast attacks, and powerful moves but his lack of a projectile, horrible horizontal recovery, and him simply being a huge target compensates for that. Zelda has great finishers (the hitboxes on her fair and bair are enormous), a spammable projectile, her smashes are just strong, her recovery is predictable but it has great distance.

I think overall this is a great tier list. I've got pretty much the same mindset as you do.

 

[hizzlum]

Captain Falcon's Recovery is NOT lackluster. It is above average. But your other points make sense. I think overall this is a great tier list. I've got the same mindset you have (except i would put Falcon in low tier but that is just me being a fanboy LOL).

I agree that the distance captain falcon gets from falcon dive is much better than average, but it is a predictable recovery and an basic edgeguard to a pivot edgehog
will kill falcon most of the time.He is by far the manliest chracater in any videogame(which rivals the manliness of Chuck Norris and Kimbo Slice), but he has become a sissy-boy in brawl

 

[St. Viers]

give reasons why toon link is mid tier.

and kirby has the 3/4th best edge guard game--behind rob, jiggz, and maybe toon link ...>_>

Kirby I can see lower, but TL looks right