ness discussion

[Sangoku]

inb4 ballin saying chuckj has to change to 40 ppp.

 

[Battlecow]

chuckj has to change to 40 posts per page

 

[ballin4life]

inb4 ballin saying chuckj has to change to 40 ppp.

lol i saw chuckj's post already and thought about but eventually decided not to make a reply talking about changing to 40 posts per page.

 

[chuckj]

=) anyone got the player's name at least?


i made a quick search on User CP and in this page but couldnt find anything to change to 40 posts per page, could you tell me how to do it? would be usefull actually! thanks!

 

[M!nt]

Edit Options--->Thread Display Options-->Number of Posts to Show Per Page

 

[chuckj]

thank you ^w^ it is reduced to only 13 pages now lol

i was searching for an option that has a number on it, but it was "use forum default" before that why i didnt find it!

 

[WOTG]

How the heck do you approach link???

 

[ballin4life]

pk fire!!!!

 

[Sempiternity]

pk thunder!!!!

 

[Peek~]

How the heck do you approach link???

You should be on that *** from the word GO so you dont have to worry about that.

 

[The Star King]

It's obviously hard but I usually try to do reverse DJC rush stuff vs lesser Links

Not as good vs more competent Links. I myself like to use reverse utilt and stuff with Link to catch Ness players doing that. If they do stuff like that I usually become more full-hoppy and look for an opportunity to attack. Or I try to bait them into dairing me and beat it with utilt or something. But yeah they kind of have to make a mistake and it's hard to force them into one. Ness sucks.

If they're running away throwing projectiles do the usual trying-to-corner-them-on-the-sides. This is admittedly hard on the right side of Hyrule thanks to being able to jump on top of the green building. But Ness can DJC rush onto the green building from the left I suppose.

Spoiler

or you can reflect projectiles with baseball bat like a PRO

 

[kys]

As a Ness secondary, I can confirm that he does indeed suck. Playing against good Links is my least favorite matchup for Ness. He has a really hard time avoiding projectiles.

I try to stay above Link with full hops, and as I leave the ground I throw out a dair or fair which sometimes blocks a boomerang. Throw out a few DJC bairs, but don't get crazy with it. And then I hope the Link I'm playing sucks. If you're lucky enough to land an utilt, make it count.

 

[asianaussie]

extended DJC B-Airs are probably the most predictable approach in the entire game

well not really, but if you do them every chance you get it's not that good

Spoiler

i realised the 'reason for editing' line is very effective for conveying post subtext in a snarky way

 

[Lukingordex]

Can someone give a quick explanation about the MU Ness vs Captain Falcon?

 

[asianaussie]

both can combo and edgeguard the other pretty well, but ness has trouble getting in on falcon

 

[The Star King]

I usually try to do forward djc uairs for approach and dat invincible head gets me in, and I'm like "cool beans" but then I'm like "wait is this even suposed to work idk but whatevs I'll keep doing it"

 

[Olikus]

ness discussion is interesting. ness is not.

 

[kys]

The majority of Falcons will try to grab or usmash as an approach. If they succeed you're toast, so keep those two things in mind as you mix up whatever it is you're doing.

^Like Link, make the utilts count. Have no shame in throwing. No one feels bad about making Ness recover for 2 minutes. On Dreamland, jump onto the side platforms if you get Falcon offstage at low to mid-percents. Wait for them to commit to a recovery, and stomp them.

Learn how to link weak aerials to strong ones (weak nair to dair for example). These work really well on Falcon. Also, a grounded dair on falcon to throw is efficient and effective at nearly every reasonable percent. Remember, no shame.

 

[The Star King]

Meh, grab as approach?

Usually aerials like bair/fair/dair or usmash. Aerials lead to grab anyways and are usually better for first hit in neutral game

 

[kys]

^Obviously those are better. By majority I meant noobs/average kaillera player. I play a lot of those in my efforts to bring more people into the community, and they love their dash grab spam.

 

[The Star King]

Fair enough. I tend to avoid playing noobs lol

 

[WOTG]

What about Ness vs Kirby, Falcon, and Pikachu. What should Ness do in those match-ups? Maybe Fox too. Those are like match-ups he can barely approach in.

 

[The Star King]

Vs Falcon I use run -> djc uairs to get under his short hop stuff and also hit his dashdances/pivots (overshoot if you think he will dash away - you can also try reverse DJC rush dairs past his position). If you don't overshoot and he dashes away and you think he is about to run in and grab you, you can utilt immediately, and it works on a lot of people, watch out though because he can pause for the utilt and then punish you. You should be able to combo Falcon really hard whenever you land a uair or UTilt. If the Falcon likes to dair off platforms you should easily beat that with your vertical attacks. IDK about the other ones.

 

[wiztick]

ness discussion is interesting. ness is not.

whats with all the hate for ness?

also if someone is rolling when should you time your grab?

 

[The Star King]

At the end of the roll?

 

[kys]

What about Ness vs Kirby, Falcon, and Pikachu. What should Ness do in those match-ups? Maybe Fox too. Those are like match-ups he can barely approach in.

Not much. I try to get Pika and Kirby in tech-chase and dair situations, since it can lead to a fast KO if you read correctly (and you need fast KO's). I don't DJC as much in those two matchups because they both have stupid moves that can screw you over by losing your second jump. I opt for more full hop aerials, especially dair.

I dislike uair in those two matchups because I'm usually too slow to follow up. It's much easier to link the other aerials together. At low to mid percents try to nail a nair/fair to a dair.

The most annoying thing about the Ness Pika/Kirby matchups is that you can outplay someone by a significant margin but still lose.

I struggle with Fox, especially ones with good laser games. The Falcon method works pretty well on Fox that Star King wrote above. Have no mercy on throwing and gimping because the same mercy will certainly not be shown to you. Hello shine.

 

[ciaza]

with fox i like to learn the distance where if you down b to absorb the lasers, you can stop down-bing before fox runs up and punishes you. if you do it from too far away the fox won't go for the punish, and too close you'll obviously get punished. if you know it you can bait and capitalise really well.

 

[The Star King]

Let's play a little forum game

As Fox, I laser close enough to punish and far away enough to be safe

What do you do

 

[WOTG]

After playing Boom's ness I realized I was doing the right thing, but just not as good as he does it.

 

[The Star King]

What is "the right thing"?

 

[WOTG]

not sure how to describe it

 

[Peek~]

Shieldjump Spikes are amazing

 

[The Star King]

I agree you taught me to use fullhop dair for escaping and stuff

 

[ciaza]

Let's play a little forum game

As Fox, I laser close enough to punish and far away enough to be safe

What do you do

extended djc backwards cancel with down b

also, apex training has begun. moved into a house with james and a mate. despite a jam-packed shelf filled with ps3/360/xbox games the only thing we seem to play is smash.

.

and fire electric pen, the objectively most fun and competitive game on the 64.

 

[Peek~]

Watching random Ness videos, Need Job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYN7apa0l_A&feature=player_detailpage#t=302s
Practice DJC Grabs, the killing power feels amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqb2rlqzhCU&feature=player_detailpage#t=107s
Cancel your **** or get punished by instant Dair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqb2rlqzhCU&feature=player_detailpage#t=140s
Beautiful use of Dair. Knowing how his DJCs/2nd jump work and knowing how it can help you move around is so important
Also that combo after might have had enough stun to grab him after the spike if not then he could have DJC Fair on to the top platform and turned around for a grab. Needs a quick reaction though otherwise you'll miss the timing for the grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqb2rlqzhCU&feature=player_detailpage#t=230s
Should have done Uair a bit sooner though he might have missed the ledge. He could have done a Dair too and then Fast fall since Dair doesnt send you down like Uair and keeps you more in place/steady.
2nd jumping backwards instead of Forward was also a choice he could have done instead of going forward. He would have ended up much higher than Kirby and if Kirby was baited and did another jump+Bair, Ness could have canceled his 2nd jump with Dair/Uair and gone for the ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqb2rlqzhCU&feature=player_detailpage#t=372s
Jab -> Instant Spike is amazing as well. The DJC Utilt was flashy stuff :<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqb2rlqzhCU&feature=player_detailpage#t=447s
Uair has too much recovery frames to be doing it that even with the ledge(though I know he was trying to get back on stage). You'll want to do it from higher.
Something fun to do is to Fall -> Jump backwards and do PK Thunder as your 2nd jump is bringing you forward. The forward momentum from your jump/PK Thunder should push you towards the edge so you'll grab it but at the same time when you did PK Thunder you'll be far enough that you can swing PK Thunder up and over and use it like a projectile.
Doing PK Thunder forward for recovery like he did right after is funny sometimes. Sometimes it's useful to avoid projectiles(Mario shooting you from above, Link's bombs), other times it scares your opponent and they will back off even though if they had clashed with it you'd be dead. DONT GET HIT right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFxaqIpMmLY&feature=player_detailpage#t=46s
If you Forward DJC PKT2 it will send you downward like this(because of the forward momentum, PKthunder will hit Ness right at the top back part of his head). If you do it backwards it you send you upward with same angle(because of the backwards momentum, It hits Ness right below his butt). Backwards DJC PKT2 is the fastest way to do PKT2 I think.

Ness makes me want to start playing again but at the same time makes me not want to play again :3

 

[ballin4life]

good info. very cool read

 

[The Star King]

Good post. Yeah you should come back BRO

I still question uair "sending you down". Can aerials even influence movement (other than canceling the momentum-slowing of Kirby/Puff's midair jumps)?

Also looooooool Kirby Utilting at the edge at 7:27 is so incredibly... gay.

 

[Peek~]

Well maybe it doesnt exactly send you down, maybe im just looking at it incorrectly.

But it does have more recovery frames so by the time it is done youll be lower than when you do Dair

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

I feel terrible knowing Ness is so hated now. Ahhh, the good ol' days.
Anyways, he'll always be my favorite character to play, albeit not sure if he's me best. Debatable.
I'm going to have to learn hitboxes to be able to recover better after i.e. uair and PKT2.

 

[The Star King]

He's not hated, it's just that so many noobs come here saying how uber Ness is that "Ness sucks" became a bit of a forum in-joke