Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
I haven't heard of this. Can you please explain?
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Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion
- Thread starter Shaya
- Start date
LancerStaff
Smash Hero
Basically the scales on the Pikmin stage are fully functional scales, and they let you compare the weight of two characters. Put Mario on one and Cloud on the other and Cloud will slowly fall, take a guest Mii and Cloud and it'll stay still, with Bowser and Jiggs it's going to be moving fast, and so on. It's entirely dependent on weight. Same deal with the mobile on Woolly World, but that's a little too complex to get any meaningfull data off of.
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Thanks Sakurai
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
I made a translated version of the "system-based" frame data spreadsheet from http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Character_data.htm.
Japanese
English
It has mostly frame data we already have, but it also has frame data for item throwing, teching, all lying on the ground options, and tripping options for every character.
Japanese
English
It has mostly frame data we already have, but it also has frame data for item throwing, teching, all lying on the ground options, and tripping options for every character.
wow... I've tested so many moves, so many different damages in hope to get the true stale numbers but these are incredibly odd. No wonder I've never got a result.
good job. I've already got a translation myself but I've never published it. I'll use your version from now one because mine got crippled through open office. Thank you
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Ixisnaugus
Smash Journeyman
Do we have a compiled list of walk and dash acceleration? Or, how fast it takes each character to reach their max speeds of walking and dashing respectively? I see what I assume is max walk and dash speeds on @KuroganeHammer, but not acceleration.
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Well, it certainly put my on the ground options data to shame. I couldn't get I-frames. But seriously, this is a really impressive collection of data. On the topic of ledge options, I have to bring up the "Ledge hold" numbers. From my own testing, 20 Total frames definitely seems like how much you experience before your character can begin a ledge option. However, it is my hypothesis that this number is different for letting go of the ledge. Instead, I've found it to be something more like 24 frames before you can let go. And the number probably deviates by one frame or two if you were to look at all of the characters, like most of this animation data.
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Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Ledge hold is 20 frames for most characters. If you buffer attack, roll, or jump during ledge hold then it'll come out on the very next frame just like normal. However, you can't buffer ledge get-up or ledge drop, so those options can't be inputted till 2 frames after the end of ledge hold which means the earliest you can ledge get-up or ledge drop is frame 23. This is also why you can't ledge get-up or ledge drop if you're being ledge trumped since the trump happens a frame after ledge hold is done.
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
You know, I felt like you couldn't buffer ledge drop, but I didn't want to say anything lest I get corrected immediately. I already felt like I was being too assumptive by claiming there's a second FAF for other actions.
I gotta know, was all of this really in the game data? I'm impressed. And happy, because it means I won't have to confirm it via 60 FPS video capture.
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Oh I knew that one. HELLO accidental get-up attack when instead I was trying to do a ledge drop Fair clip through the stage.
Thank you for this. Mii Sword and Brawler are switched though.
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Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Thanks. It should be fixed now.
Speaking of that spreadsheet, does anyone know what Mega Man's last number is on the first page?
Nevermind, it's utilt.
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Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
As far as I know, soft tripping only happens when you step on a banana peel and from an uncharged Wario Waft. Hard tripping happens from attacks that trip; this includes banana peels that are thrown at you.That's mighty helpful, but I have one questionPikabunz :
Would getting the Soft Trip happen from a move with a trip chance ratio like say a Dtilt while the Hard Trip happens from a thrown Banana Peel, or do I have it all wrong?
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Pikabunz
Smash Hero
It could be when the character hits the ground. I'm not 100% sure though.
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
26 frames is the amount of frames upon hitting the ground before you can begin getup options. It is also the initial jab lock window.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Okay, thanks. What should I label that column as? Ground impact or something?
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Ground impact / Tumble land / minimum ground time / Jab lock window sounds mighty to me. Also, Wii Fit Trainer's On Back ground time being the lowest makes me more conscious about locking them, while Villager & Olimar having the largest windows to jab lock give me less worry about them despite of their low weight. Nice.
For the "Common Action" tab under "Footstool?", is this for both the grounded & airborne footstool?
For the "Common Action" tab under "Footstool?", is this for both the grounded & airborne footstool?
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
I don't even know if that's footstool frames. Google translate translates it as "ground platform."
Huron
Smash Rookie
PATENTED MKL WAVEDASH
踏み台(踏みつけ/踏み付け) = footstool
強制維持 = Jab lock window, in this case.
I'm Japanese, 100% sure that there is no mistake with your other translating.
If you have trouble with translating Japanese in the future, please send me PM, poor my English though.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Thanks a lot!
Huron
Smash Rookie
is everyone seriously gonna ignore a wavedash from ssb4's top character...?
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Well idk it wasn't clear exactly what happened. What did you input? Can you replicate it?
Huron
Smash Rookie
I tried but couldnt get it to happen again. ill see if i can get a clear video
Jams.
+15 Attack
Looks like the crouch sliding thing a lot of characters can do. Sheik can also mimic a wavedash backward out of a run with a grounded wavebounce Needle cancel.
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Huron
Smash Rookie
As great a point as that is, the only action tried was running to the left..? Ill take a look at those techs but what made me think "wavedash" is how sheik was in a neutral state upon landing, her crouch being coated in purple, and the neutral state while sliding, with the ability to act out of that state.
Edit: Also, the B button wasnt used there which makes me question the wavebounce tech as well. The crouch slide is similar but sheik didnt drop or move as far as in this video.
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TerraCaty'
Smash Cadet
Is vectoring more effective horizontally when holding towards the stage into the angle you were launched at?
was practicing in Training mode and noticed that if you are running then hold shield for a few frames then grab you end up with the standing Grab animation while still moving foward.
here is a link to a gif to show what i mean.
http://i.imgur.com/dHrZKnc.gifv
has anyone talked about this yet. and if so, then how helpful would it be in tournament play?
here is a link to a gif to show what i mean.
http://i.imgur.com/dHrZKnc.gifv
has anyone talked about this yet. and if so, then how helpful would it be in tournament play?
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
You know, I never thought about it, but that's basically as good as jump cancel grabs in Melee, only you have the boon of a shield before the grab. As an alternative for dash grabs, it's serviceable, sure. But only doable out of a run, and not a dash. And the bulk of our movement techs revolve around dashes and pivots.
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It was popular in Brawl. Still decent, but not as good as back then due to decreased range on standing grab and worse shields. Some standing grabs also halt your momentum (like many fire emblem characters)
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Actually I believe someone in this thread said you don't get a standing grab until a little bit longer in the shield (something like frame 3 or 4?) because before that you still get a dash grab. This means your shield to standing grab starts very late. Unless your character's dash grab is atrocious compared to standing this shouldn't be useful.
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Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Like San. mentioned, this was popular in Brawl. And depending on the character, instead of running into shield standing grab, it was better off to do a running into shield dash grab. However, you had to input the command faster since standing grab out of shield was slower as Viper mentioned. It's better than a standing grab for some characters but worse for others. It varies on your character's grab frame data & friction n stuff. Range is definitely improved but yeah.
Yeah. I also forgot to mention that dash grabs were much worse in Brawl, too, on average.
That is a (low quality video of a) perfect pivot.
If you grab on frame 1 to 3 of the shield out of a run you'll get a dash grab, yes.
As that matches up with the power shield window, you definitely don't get a dash grab if you dash power shield into grab right?
That's a good question. I'd imagine that the shield-hitlag would be enough to ensure it's a standing grab, but I'll check.
It certainly seems to be the case for powershielding Toon's Arrow and Fox's Laser. MM's jab pellets at full range deal ridiculously low shield-hitlag from memory... and even that seems to be too much. So there you go, you should always do a standing grab out of a powershield. Unless the hitbox you powershield deals out less than 3 frames of shield hitlag, I don't think it should be a problem, but theoretically it's possible I guess.
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