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You are from NJ, so I'm going to take a safe guess that you don't plan to attend this tournament. I encourage you to do so! But otherwise, I implore that you don't know what you're talking about. There's an equally shiny A button that people can press when they miss a tech that will make them get up attack, WHERE YOU ARE INVINCIBLE AND HIT MK OUT OF TORNADO.Ban ****ing luigi's mansion, you're going to have a metaknight spam the crap out ppl and win soley because they have a b button all shiny on their controller. It's not fair to certain characters, I feel it should be banned in all tournaments, but thats my horrible opinion.
Anther, i heart you. we should make pichus.XD, Luigi's is on a whole nother level of counter pick compared to stages like Norfair/Pictochat/or even Green Hill Zone. If you don't see Luigi's giving an Immense advantage to meta then you need to seriously look at the way his advantages grow. Plenty of characters advantages grow in a way that makes gameplay into a "Throw out fast forward attacks that block the entire hallway or dash in and grab mistakes because other options like jumping over stuff is a bad idea now."
I don't want to start johning about how the tornado becomes stupid in the fact that you can't jump over it at all to counter it (or DI to escape it because there's an effing wall there XD), or how easily metaknight gets you cornered because his attacks make your only good option to throw out a long range high priority move so he can't **** you with his specials that already are pretty effective without a ceiling stopping you from being able to escape or counter them at mid-range.
Plus, the fact that the mansion is breakable is laughable. It's gone for 20 seconds, you get a total of 10-15 seconds to get a character with one of the fastest run speeds in the game, an amazing defensive game, and I'll even mention that he has a long lasting attack that takes 'flukes' of precision for other characters to beat.
The stage isn't that bad normally, but just the fact that it's a questionable counterpick if you aren't choosing metaknight for the fact that just standing inside of the mansion instantly gives you a huge position advantage no matter the other player's efforts makes me wonder how it's lasted so long ;p. Sure there's the strategy of replenishing moves by hitting the pillars... which sounds kinda deep >.>.
Luigi's just kinda lopsides matchups as opposed to just changing the dynamics a bit imo. I still don't mind any other stages and I'm gonna waste my ban on it regardless so, nyeh =p.
I think I did well for my first MK tournament, but I'm not talking about the midwest.i didnt know MK was wining MW tournies these days <_<.
you sir are a wise manban Metaknight and get around the Luigi's Mansion problem
that must mean I'm the wisest man at least, in the MW smash community.If by wise you mean one who johns a lot...
In Brawl (and Melee, actually), there's a couple of time windows. I'll list them for you.There's an equally shiny A button that people can press when they miss a tech that will make them get up attack, WHERE YOU ARE INVINCIBLE AND HIT MK OUT OF TORNADO.
L2P people. Really.
Shouldn't have any problems...So is everyone ok with this date being changed to Nov. 7-8?
http://www.allisbrawl.com/group.aspx?id=3086I might be able to attend, depending on class that week. I wish MSU had a smash scene too.
Ankoku is assuming that the tornado is hitting the opponent for its entirety. We know this is not the case in real gameplay.You can't get a second tornado off unless the opponent lets you. Beyond like 20% it's just not possible to get to them before they can begin a get-up attack.
I'm not sure what you think you're getting at Ankoku. Have you tried this?
When it pops you out, if you're DIing to the side you'll land too far away for him to get to you in time. It shouldn't matter whether it hits you for its entirety or not.Ankoku is assuming that the tornado is hitting the opponent for its entirety. We know this is not the case in real gameplay.
Depends on when he hits you with the tornado, what character you are, and what percent. The first, third and last hits of the tornado pop people out. Some characters like GAW and Pikachu pop right out of the tornado, others like Snake and D3 are pretty much stuck in there.what are all the ways you can DI out of the tornado anyways?
I have no idea what the hell the purpose of this would be. However, if I have to be Meta Knight for the MM, I can already tell you I'd lose. I only win consistently against people significantly worse than me when I'm using Meta Knight (read: like, nobody I play regularly).Ankoku, MM?
If you're DIing left or right and Meta Knight doesn't get that weird no-ending-lag Tornado, you would have the time to wakeup attack out. I'm not sure about the distance, though, so Tornado might still set up into dsmash if you don't techroll away. Whatever the case, mashing A is not the solution, but DIing out of the Tornado is one.There is not enough time to do two tornados if the person knows what they're doing. All you have to do is DI left or right and then hit A. I know the game mechanics, otherwise I wouldn't be so good at the stage.
A lot of people wouldn't complain about a really lame counterpick stage happening to not be around. You're seriously making a bigger deal about this single stage than most people would make about items being on at a given tournament.A Lot of people still don't know that you have to break the top down first. Many are assuming they know how long it takes the stage to respawn. Most don't know to just hit A.
It's really more a matter of principle. People quote David Sirlin around here all the time but I think they just pick and choose situations. It's the way of the scrub to ban things that are "really lame" instead of learning to play. If you let all those people have their way there'd be nothing but flat, immobile stages left-- which are not actually neutral at all-- and the strategic element of counterpicking would be removed, and the game itself would be far less dynamic.A lot of people wouldn't complain about a really lame counterpick stage happening to not be around. You're seriously making a bigger deal about this single stage than most people would make about items being on at a given tournament.
yeah i use snake so im pretty much screwed then XPDepends on when he hits you with the tornado, what character you are, and what percent. The first, third and last hits of the tornado pop people out. Some characters like GAW and Pikachu pop right out of the tornado, others like Snake and D3 are pretty much stuck in there.
Exactly what I'm talking about. You're arbitrarily narrowing down his point according to criteria that he did not himself present.Anyone quoting David Sirlin in regards to competitive smash is a fool. When David Sirlin wrote his article the smash community did not exist, especially in its current form. And, more importantly, Smash is the only game where the stages actually make a difference. I would take arguments for Soul Calibur, seeing as ring out characters most definitely benefit from small stages with no walls, but in almost all cases in all games, the stage will give little advantage to either opponent. In this game, this is a huge issue.
Sirlin was more talking about "broke" or "gay" techniques that may be discovered and how the good player will work around these strategies and beat them. He was more addressing people who want to ban moves or special techniques (even combos, which were not intentional in the original street fighter) and telling them to man up and work your way around it. Sirlin's article can be quoted in the wavedash debate, but most definitely not in the items vs no items debate, or the stage banning debate, since that is not what he had in mind when he wrote the article.
It's perfectly applicable to items. The difference between items and stages, however, is that smash was played with items on for a good long while. It was tested, and it was shown that they had a very significant tendency to randomize outcomes, which greatly robs the game of it's competitive merit. Stages like Luigi's do not have this kind of testing. People just got beat by stuff they don't know how to combat, assume it's impossible to beat, and go ban-happy. This kind of crap should be discouraged.So, to the EVO staff and anyone on smashboards who still quotes him: it does not apply to stages or items.
Of course it isn't. If it was he wouldn't have needed to write a book. Problem is, all the other philosophies are generally illogical and lead to far less interesting competitive environments. He argues against the scrub's "logic" because if the scrub had his way we'd never see a great deal of what the game has to offer because it's "lame" and "cheap" to explore it.David Sirlin's philosophy isn't the only philosophy, and that statement is rather broad.
They ban cards only after this adverse effect on the game is proven, generally after a player builds a deck around said card that's so absurdly dominant that none of the other higher level players decks can compete. They don't just sift through every new set and decide "oh, this card's lame" and ban it.Look at MTG. Yes, it's possible to beat a deck with banned cards, but in most cases, the addition of the card makes all varieties of decks strictly better.
I'm not arguing anything except that your post has flawed assumptions.
Okay... but sometimes broken cards do get through, right? How do TO's and players know which ones are broken and which ones aren't? They don't know, not until somebody uses the broken cards to break the game.That's because they extensively research and test the new sets in development.