Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

@ PseudoTurtle

Edgeguarding spacies is mainly reaction, ONCE you have narrowed down your options based on his positioning as he gets closer to the stage.

Always hit them out of their up-B if they do it too close to the stage. You don't want to predict a side-B and then give them a free up-b to the ledge. This is often unpunished in general.

Downward up-b sweetspot to ledge is also often unpunished, even when someone reads it. Uair spike.

I really like to bair side-B's and uair spike sweetspot attempts. This is where the importance of reaction comes into play. Some say you can uair anything but bair is flat out easier.

Invincible ledgehop uair onto stage is also a good option but it is a commitment. You have to know that your opponent's options are limited enough for it to hit.

Jabs and ftilts have to be on point for beating side-B but if they're not sweetspotting they are obviously great options.

Also the situational full hop fastfall fair offstage to cover side-B (forces up-B) and then dj uair is good too.

You just have to pay very close attention to their every move as they get closer to the stage, and identify and cover their options quickly with good spacing. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Divinokage]

Ganon Master, I can't edge guard for **** unless it's ganon or falcon. Sometimes marth as well because his recovery is awful. But what you said about power shielding is ok I guess, but I have trouble with lasers for a different reason. Power shielding is ok, but any good falco will use it against you if you do it too often. My problem is overall laser evasion, not just power shielding. I agree with you that power shielding can improve aspects of my laser evasion game, but it is not essential. Look at spidey or linguini play. They power shield like once a match, maybe.

@ Divinokage @ -ACE- @spider_sense : how do you guys edge guard space animals? Is it more of a prediction thing or a reaction thing? Vs. ganon / falcon, for example, I usually just react and use maybe 10% prediction. Illusion is just too quick and hard to punish. I hate it.

Yo also, 7:12. You guys gotta start doing **** like that more

Forgot to mention that the great Eddie also showed up! It was really cool to see him in attendance. I had a lot of fun playing him and what's amazing is that his spacing is still so good. It's such a weird style- he'll double jump to the point where you think you can hit him, but it's totally safe and he drops down with a bair. That guy is so cool. Too bad he didn't even make it out of pools lol.

Sucks to see a legend fall like that huh.. =P

As for edgeguarding spacies, I'd recommend to always predict the side-B if when you hit them off-stage they are above the ledge. In that case if they UP-B instead, you should have plenty of time to go off-stage and punch them. The position I take if it was BF is usually under the left/right platform so I can be ready for both options. It happens often if they side-B close by then I can just either jab or jump over them and Fair them on the middle of the stage where they land. If they go for ledge cancel, I'm ready to upair also so with that position I'm covering a lot of options. If they are below the ledge well.. they will up-B either straight up or at an angle. Either reverse upair or stomp that.

 

[-ACE-]

If they are recovering from below the ledge:

Bair if you know they will overshoot, but preferably wait until they are slightly over the ledge so they can't tech.

Uair is great if you can space it perfectly, or any time they are sweetspotting.

Dair is great for not trading (the only slight problem with uair... If you are barely off on spacing you will likely trade). Meteor canceling is not a problem vs spacies, just dair them again. However, you must be ready for a sneaky walltech to side-B. Regular tech to instant side-B is safe for them but not easy for them to do.

Not trading is huge. Remaining in control of Ganon is crucial to not blowing opportunities.

 

[GanonMaster]

hmm, will you say the mu is better for ganon on bf rather than yoshi's, because of ledge? personally I prefer big stages against spacies, but which one do everyone here think is the better one? (BF or YS)

EDIT: btw, I have most experience against Falco, btw.

 

[-ACE-]

Vs falco... yeah I'd say BF is better. Vs fox... idk. They're close but I'd give it to YS.

 

[cptjiggles69]

I haven't posted in awhile. I want to take a player like Amsa and break him down. He plays yoshi, a character supposedly worse than ganon. What does he do? what are his strategies. How does he practice such execution?

 

[Divinokage]

I haven't posted in awhile. I want to take a player like Amsa and break him down. He plays yoshi, a character supposedly worse than ganon. What does he do? what are his strategies. How does he practice such execution?

Well watch the exhibition with me and Amsa, that should tell you how strong he is. He's super legit.

His strat usually revolves around juggling you and also to instantly counter-attack with parry in order for him to get momentum up. His edgeguards aren't super good but he has annoying egg tricks off-stage and also while he's on the ledge, it's pretty hard to challenge him as Ganon. Too fat and too slow to get the edge quickly.

I really need to Up-b him more in general to prevent that stupid parry on the ground and on platform even more important.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Well watch the exhibition with me and Amsa, that should tell you how strong he is. He's super legit.

His strat usually revolves around juggling you and also to instantly counter-attack with parry in order for him to get momentum up. His edgeguards aren't super good but he has annoying egg tricks off-stage and also while he's on the ledge, it's pretty hard to challenge him as Ganon. Too fat and too slow to get the edge quickly.

I really need to Up-b him more in general to prevent that stupid parry on the ground and on platform even more important.

If he can do all that with yoshi, maybe we can perfect ganon to get close to the top!

 

[Superspright]

420 man. I had to. Are we really discussing the yoshi match up?

 

[-ACE-]

If he can do all that with yoshi, maybe we can perfect ganon to get close to the top!

Apples to oranges. Yoshi is so much different than Ganon.

Ganon's neutral game is generally trash, but he obviously punishes hard. He must be played in a way that hides his weaknesses and capitalizes on his strong points.

 

[Superspright]

Easier said than done. The lack of a strong dash dance, coupled with having to commit to wavedashes, or standing your ground (no OoS options that are worth talking about save up-b, or powershield shenanigans) makes him a sitting duck half of the time. The other half of the time you're committing to a dream. He's so damn hard to play. I love playing him, but his skill-ceiling is more of a wall after a certain point. It's either you know it all and you play him flawlessly, or you know it all and you die anyway. There's no try with Ganondorf. Either you do him or you don't. The lack of having leeway, or creative flare on his play is one of his biggest hang-ups (like, using uair as an edgeguard...if you aren't doing this 90% of the time or better you aren't playing Ganondorf right. Other options are usually inferior but look awesome). He only has correct options, and wrong options. It's also what makes him enjoyable to watch. When a Ganondorf wins he looks unstoppable, but when he loses he looks ridiculously bad. It's the oddest thing about him and his clone. I've noticed this about him more than anyone else I play. He's probably the slowest character I seriously play as though.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Apples to oranges. Yoshi is so much different than Ganon.

Ganon's neutral game is generally trash, but he obviously punishes hard. He must be played in a way that hides his weaknesses and capitalizes on his strong points.

Ace of course lol. I mean like look at amsa. He takes a character like yoshi and makes such great decisions. Well we need a brilliant ganon player to do that. Also , light shield versus normal shield? I notice i opt for light shield against spacies to try and get the grab, but fox can still mess you up lol

 

[cptjiggles69]

Or better yet. How about examples of light shield being better and when normal shield is. I know about shield di don't worry

 

[Superspright]

Light-shield is more useful against shield-pokes like Peach's aerial-dsmash combo. It usually frame traps you though. It's not a very good tool if you're looking to get away from their stuff. I'd use shield SDI (not to be confused with shield DI) to get away if you're good enough. Powershielding is superior to light-shielding...also transitioning from hard to light shield during combo pressure is very important if you read the dtilt from Falco, or Fox. Clearly getting shine-grabbed is more likely though.

I know you asked ace, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents for whatever it's worth.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

tm (can't tag you), @ -ACE- @LoOshKiN and @ Divinokage

Thanks for the advice. Tm, you were spot on regarding the laser pressure. It's really weird because I know I'm doing it, yet I can't get myself to fix it, it's really frustrating. I really hate the falco matchup. I have definitely achieved fraud status at this tournament, so time to put in some work!

Also, shout outs to finally teaching me how to skip to a certain point in a video.

God damn it lol, it's beginning to look like I'll never win a recorded tournament match.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Whaats shield sdi again? And thanks superspright. It helps. Lately i have been playing more space animals

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

weekly tonight for melee here in orlando. really hoping to go in lol but i normally play like straight dookie at these tournaments.

gonna post around when i'm up, but stay tuned around 8 or 9ish EST for matches to be streamed

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1

 

[-ACE-]

Agreed with superfight. @ cptjiggles69 Shield SDI is inputting a direction DURING shield lag, as opposed to having the direction already held before shield lag begins (shield ASDI). Shield SDI moves you farther than does shield ASDI.

 

[cptjiggles69]

On a side not i am improving my game a lot. I play a little fox too, i have always played more than one character. I find it easier to change characters now. Fox ,ganon, falcon and sometimes marth. Overall i find myself spacing better . Honestly eventhough ganon is slow, i always appreciate his tree trunk legs and his range

 

[tm]

Shoutouts to being untaggable. Good thing I'm always lurking

 

[-ACE-]

@ tm

Got you bro.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

@ tm

Got you bro.

How did you...?

 

[-ACE-]

Lol magic.

 

[Coastward]

you have to be good at ganon to tag @ tm

 

[tm]

@ tm
I cheated.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ tm

Well son of a *****

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

@ tm

I discovered the magic!!!

 

[cptjiggles69]

@ tm wooh i did it

 

[GanonMaster]

poor tm, getting all the spam

 

[-ACE-]

Page 420 is all about @ tm sounds like he needs to smoke a fatty.

Lol.

Bring on the Ganon questions!

 

[Coastward]

gonna try to change up my playstyle now after meddling with other characters. moreso being more percise and patient, sheik opened my eyes to a whole new type of play.

apex qualifier is happening 2 weeks in toronto, maybe i can get on stream to get some footage. if not, gonna bust out the hand cam.

what do you guys think about offensive/defensive in a sense of it being a dominant playstyle?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Got all of my matches recorded on my phone, so incoming phone vids (in order).

Tournament Matches:
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon) vs Mate In 3 (Marth) 1
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon) vs Mate In 3 (Marth) 2
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon) vs Mate In 3 (Marth) 3
CAPS LOCKE (Falcon/Doc) vs Nevermind (Samus)
CAPS LOCKE (DK/Ganon) vs $mike (Marth)
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon) vs BEHR (Fox) [Recommended Viewing]
Money Matches:
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon/DK) vs Pineapple (Falco) $3 MM
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon) vs EMB (Marth) $3 MM [Recommended Viewing] [Shaky Camera]
CAPS LOCKE (Ganon/Luigi/DK) vs Bl@ckChris (Ganon/Fox) $3 MM [Game 3 is Recommended Viewing]
That is all for now

Just wanted to repost this since it was the last post on the previous page and I feel like people missed it.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

what do you guys think about offensive/defensive in a sense of it being a dominant playstyle?

What do you mean by this? Your question is really vague and needs some explanation.

 

[Coastward]

What do you mean by this? Your question is really vague and needs some explanation.

yeah i kinda worded it weirdly.

so lets use ganon for the example: do you think playing offensively benefits him more than playing defensively, or vice versa?

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

I firmly believe every character in this game benefits more from defensive play than offensive play
and most of ganon's matchups involve walling with X
so
no, I dont think playing offensively benefits ganon
he's like a worse sheik, can't really go on the offense outside of positioning but has a great punish and gimp game

 

[RedmanSSBM]

yeah i kinda worded it weirdly.

so lets use ganon for the example: do you think playing offensively benefits him more than playing defensively, or vice versa?

Ganon by nature benefits the most from playing defensively, pretty sure this is really well known fact about Ganon so I'm not sure what new information you're trying to find. He relies so heavily on baits and reads and that all stems from defensive play. If you play Ganon offensively it can be intimidating to those that don't know how to deal with it, but for those who do, Ganon is a slow **** and if you play aggressive your opponent can really easily just get out of your way and counter attack cause Ganon's moves are too slow to really do anything about it. Fox and Falco can literally just bair Ganon if he tries to approach over and over, he's that bad.

 

[Divinokage]

I played some melee today and double Ganon on Yoshis is freaking absurd.. I got Fsmashed by 1 Ganon into another Fsmash on the platform into bair KO while I was Marth. LOL Now I understand how it feels to have your soul drained in 1 second.

 

[Bwmat]

I see we're posting vids in this thread

Have at it http://smashboards.com/threads/critique-my-ganon.379065/
(or just ignore my attention-whoring)

 

[Jammindorf]

I played some melee today and double Ganon on Yoshis is freaking absurd.. I got Fsmashed by 1 Ganon into another Fsmash on the platform into bair KO while I was Marth. LOL Now I understand how it feels to have your soul drained in 1 second.

LMAO! My friend and I were just talking about the sadistic **** that goes on when 2 Ganons team up on Yoshis. Definitely going to be our go-to pick for our double Ganon team at Apex. Ganon's Story all the way.

Also, securing my spot on page 420 of this thread, history in the making right here.

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

Just wanted to say happy Thanksgiving to all the ganons