Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

[ORVO5]

His motives, however noble they may seem to him, don't make his actions right. He is redeemed at the end, but he is the villain for the story.

He may have been the antagonist of that particular story, but calling him a villain is a bit of a stretch. He's not exactly evil, though I can see why people would think that. It's all subjective I guess.

 

[Toxicroaker]

He may have been the antagonist of that particular story, but calling him a villain is a bit of a stretch. He's not exactly evil, though I can see why people would think that. It's all subjective I guess.

It's hard to take that seriously when you look at your signature lol.

 

[crotch protector]

He may have been the antagonist of that particular story, but calling him a villain is a bit of a stretch. He's not exactly evil, though I can see why people would think that. It's all subjective I guess.

If someone took my pet, cloned him and gave him superpowers, then made the pair of them fight, I wouldn't say I was stretching too far to call him a villain.

 

[Masonomace]

@StarLight42 It's understandable to doubt about Mewtwo returning, & I apologize for jumping on you I'm not attacking you, but like everyone's replying posts about 6 playable pkmn characters it's pretty much that. Brawl had 35 slots plus Random but 39 playable characters in total. Transformations being removed now signify that there's at least 4 more slots to fill in SSB4, 2 already filled i.e. Sheik & Zero Suit Samus. Assuming there's a third pkmn to replace in the missing spot for Charizard moving on & Greninja taking another place, there's going to be at least 6 pkmn slots if not more.

Edit: @Hexaped I'd say new Mewtwo attacks could be a recover mechanic or some outbursting psychic amplifications to his move-set. He's such a strong Pokemon so why is he getting so much attacking moves involving 1. His tail, 2. His His tail, & 3. His Psychic/Dark/Shadow/Ghost type attacks. We need more dark elemental attacks from him. Robin is repping that Mewtwo it's your turn to outplay that!

Double Edit: This conversation topic of Mewtwo being Good/Neutral/Evil in his first movie, Mewtwo is definitely the antagonist of the first movie. His actions are justified at like. . .the end of the movie & his past before that was quite pure until being traumatized but enough of that. Mewtwo portrays 95% evil motive.

 

[ORVO5]

If someone took my pet, cloned him and gave him superpowers, then made the pair of them fight, I wouldn't say I was stretching too far to call him a villain.

That's the thing. Mewtwo wasn't a pet. He was sentient yet he was treated like a thing. Maybe he was on his way to becoming a villain, but not at the time of the movie.

It's hard to take that seriously when you look at your signature lol.

Hey, those scientists deserved it!

 

[Steelia]

Convincing statements, Steelia! Does anyone want to share ideas for new Mewtwo attacks?

All I really hope to see is Mewtwo's signature Shadow Ball return. Maybe he'll actually charge it with one hand this time, like he did in the first movie? It'd be smaller than in SSBM, but pack more punch than Lucario's Aura Sphere.

Did you even see the prologue? With AiTwo? And the cloned Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle? That was heartbreaking. And to make things worse, Mewtwo ended up being nothing but an experiment to those scientists. He's not a villain, he was treated like sh*t, it's not his fault he grew up messed up. Darth Vader had a much clearer choice when he chose the dark side.

I've always seen the English dub Mewtwo as being rather villainous... But the original Japanese Mewtwo was very sympathetic, a confused creature just trying to find answers; he doesn't flood the world like his English counterpart, merely making the storm as a challenge, and is easily angered due to its mistreatment by previous human encounters.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

For some reason, I imagine Snake, Mewtwo, and Ridley all being revealed together. They'd all logically be in the same place; a weapons research facility.

Snake would be there to investigate. Ridley would be there to rob the place dry for Space Pirate use.

And Mewtwo would be the weapon being developed.

You know R.O.B could appear in this trailer as well if he was working at the facility.

 

[crotch protector]

That's the thing. Mewtwo wasn't a pet. He was sentient yet he was treated like a thing. Maybe he was on his way to becoming a villain, but not at the time of the movie.

I was referring to Ash and Pikachu, or literally any other Trainer in the film who has their Pokemon taken from them by Mewtwo.

He is the villain. He is still great, and the best thing about the movie. That doesn't make him not the villain.

 

[Masonomace]

I've always seen the English dub Mewtwo as being rather villainous... But the original Japanese Mewtwo was very sympathetic, a confused creature just trying to find answers; he doesn't flood the world like his English counterpart, merely making the storm as a challenge, and is easily angered due to its mistreatment by previous human encounters.

I think for that reason was because the Pokemon Company knew Mewtwo would be hugely popular here portrayed the way he was in the movie. Mewtwo being strong & powerful & villainous was attracting on the eyes in a Pokemon movie, other than the other 100+ reasons we like Mewtwo in that movie.

Edit: The Wikipedia here briefs about a statement withing the interview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mewtwo#Design_and_characteristics

During an interview, Pokemon Company president Tsunekazu Ishihara stated that Mewtwo was expected to be popular with North American audiences, citing their preference for strong, powerful characters.

 

[ORVO5]

I've always seen the English dub Mewtwo as being rather villainous... But the original Japanese Mewtwo was very sympathetic, a confused creature just trying to find answers; he doesn't flood the world like his English counterpart, merely making the storm as a challenge, and is easily angered due to its mistreatment by previous human encounters.

Exactly.

I was referring to Ash and Pikachu, or literally any other Trainer in the film who has their Pokemon taken from them by Mewtwo.

He is the villain. He is still great, and the best thing about the movie. That doesn't make him not the villain.

Imagine being born completely aware with no proper guidance and having no identity of who or what you are - that's terrifying and tragic all at once. Completely alone, the only friend he knew/had was AiTwo, and she died. When he finally came to physically, all the scientists were doing was patting themselves on the back for succeeding in their experiment, not even acknowledging the fact that he's alive (and I don't mean ignoring, I mean not acknowledging that they created a fully self-aware sentient being that has emotions and a high intellect.) His "villainy" was justified in my opinion. If that's how you define villainy then I'm not gonna argue with that

Though I personally still don't consider him a villain. He's the villain of the movie I guess, though I prefer the term antagonist because "villain" has evil connotations, but is not a villain himself. If there were any villains in the movie, it would be the humans that brought him into the world.

 

[Masonomace]

Exactly.
Imagine being born completely aware with no proper guidance and having no identity of who or what you are - that's terrifying and tragic all at once. Completely alone, the only friend he knew/had was AiTwo, and she died. When he finally came to physically, all the scientists were doing was patting themselves on the back for succeeding in their experiment, not even acknowledging the fact that he's alive (and I don't mean ignoring, I mean not acknowledging that they created a fully self-aware sentient being that has emotions and a high intellect.) His "villainy" was justified in my opinion. If that's how you define villainy then I'm not gonna argue with that

Though I personally still don't consider him a villain. He's the villain of the movie I guess, though I prefer the term antagonist because "villain" has evil connotations, but is not a villain himself. If there were any villains in the movie, it would be the humans that brought him into the world.

Wait ORVO5, I thought that Mewtwo as an early child had his memory erased of those events, hence why Mewtwo was deeply traumatized & needed to be back into the chamber to fully develop his body. ? ? ? In the movie they didn't hint anything about Mewtwo's past did they?. . .If Mewtwo didn't remember about her in his childhood memories while he was coming to waking up, then he wouldn't of had that much of a justified reason to massacre the facility.

 

[crotch protector]

If there were any villains in the movie, it would be the humans that brought him into the world.

So their actions aren't justified by a tragic backstory? The lead scientist lost his daughter, and agreed to clone Mewtwo because it would give him a chance to do more research on bringing someone he'd lost back to life. But he's the real villain?

It's fine to like the character, mate (personally, he's my favourite Pokemon), but you're being slightly one-eyed about his role in that movie.

 

[ORVO5]

Wait ORVO5, I thought that Mewtwo as an early child had his memory erased of those events, hence why Mewtwo was deeply traumatized & needed to be back into the chamber to fully develop his body. ? ? ? In the movie they didn't hint anything about Mewtwo's past did they?. . .If Mewtwo didn't remember about her in his childhood memories while he was coming to waking up, then he wouldn't of had that much of a justified reason to massacre the facility.

Well, yes and no. I wasn't referring to AiTwo when I was talking about his reasons being justified, I was referring to the fact that as soon as he was born, he was treated as nothing but an experiment with no proper regard for his life. It's a deeply philosophical concept, so I'm sorry to bring this up lol, but my point is, they should have treated him as if he was a newborn human (like a baby, except grown up) and made sure he was doing fine psychologically. Especially given the fact that he's psychic, which opens up a whole other philosophical can of worms regarding telepathy. He was brought into the world scared, alone and lost, and everybody just keeps using him. If anything, those pleasant (well, mostly pleasant) memories of AiTwo would have saved him or prevented him from turning into a "villain".

So their actions aren't justified by a tragic backstory? The lead scientist lost his daughter, and agreed to clone Mewtwo because it would give him a chance to do more research on bringing someone he'd lost back to life. But he's the real villain?

It's fine to like the character, mate (personally, he's my favourite Pokemon), but you're being slightly one-eyed about his role in that movie.

Actually, no I'm not. I see where you're coming from, but my personal opinions are just different from yours. The lead scientist lost his daughter, yes, but that doesn't give him the permission to play god. He had the option to not be that man when his wife left him. All those experiments he did, those were living things. Who knows how many Pokemon he made, lived and died? Then there's that whole group of scientists. So yes, I do see them as the villains, or at least, more villainous than Mewtwo. Maybe if they took care of Mewtwo the way they should have, I would have more sympathy for them, but they didn't.

 

[crotch protector]

Mewtwo creates Pokemon too, and cares for them as much as the scientists care for him (not at all). It's fairly hypocritical to excuse him for it but not them. And clearly he has a choice as well, because he has a change of heart at the end of the film, admits what he's been doing is wrong, and tries to make amends from there on.

When you're defending the actions of a character who admits they're wrong, I think you might need to reevaluate your position. You'd make a great lawyer though; "Your Honour, my client wishes to enter a guilty plea, but I disagree so we're gonna go ahead and argue not guilty anyway."

Regardless, go Mewtwo.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Original version had him do what he did to show that clones are still living beings and have a place in the world. The US version decided to have him want to take over/destroy the world to make him more of a villain. Sure, Mewtwo's an antagonist who tries to prove that clones can be better than the original, but in the Japanese version Mew escalates it by arguing that the originals will always be better than clones. Mew is no more a hero than Mewtwo for escalating the fight between the originals and clones.

The only thing I can say for sure is that Mewtwo is an antagonist in the movie. In the games, he's created to be ruthless, but the player character can choose to either defeat him in battle or catch him and make him a friend or a tool or a trophy. In the case of being captured, he would no longer be a villain...or is he even a villain if all he does is stand in a cave waiting for you?

 

[crotch protector]

I've only been talking about the movie. He's a boss in the games, I guess? Not a villain.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Because we don't need six pokemon characters in Smash.

Why Not!!! Pokémon is one of Nintendo's most successful franchise. And Greninja was well received. So what's wrong with six Pokémon?

 

[Metros]

Because we don't need six pokemon characters in Smash.

Oh please.

Are you forgetting about the 6 Pokemon characters that were in Brawl?

 

[LIQUID12A]

....ohhhhhh, no.

https://www.facebook.com/2241731377...41830.224173137756374/300089866831367/?type=1

*orders ticket for the hype train*

I got my own ticket :3

Sure, my theories are dead, for real, but I still hope for Mewtwo.

Time to overhype and get disappointed

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oh wait wait wait thats the 3ds versions tournament

So i think we are getting nothing like the wii u version.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I think you're really giving him too much credit by claiming he wasn't evil.

Was he sympathetic? Yes.

Was he bat**** insane? Also yes.

He was a villain. But the reason he's such a damn compelling and likable villain is exactly because his motivations are understandable. However, while motivations make us understand a villain, they don't justify what he was doing.

The key to a good villain is to be understandable in motivation but not forgivable in action.

The lack of understandable motivation makes a villain boring. The lack of unforgivable action makes a villain easier to root for than the heroes. We like him so much because he has both.

 

[Steelia]

Oh wait wait wait thats the 3ds versions tournament

So i think we are getting nothing like the wii u version.

The Wii U version will still be there, though, so both version are available at SDCC. And Hyrule Warriors whot

 

[Masonomace]

I got my own ticket :3

Sure, my theories are dead (which means I'll probably get flamed for it), for real, but I still hope for Mewtwo.

Time to overhype and get disappointed

Time to flame the fest out of you!


THEY'RE ALL READY TO FLAME YOU SO HARD LIQUIDFGC!

I hope you burn

 

[Shuriblur]

Guys...what if our sixth Pokemon rep...is Ditto? Think about it, he can replace the random slot, but basically function as the same thing. He'll randomly transform into other characters at the start of a match.

In all seriousness, I never really considered Mewtwo as a villain. I mean in the games he usually houses himself in a cave and doesn't really bother anyone unless he's bothered right?

 

[Stompu]

Why Not!!! Pokémon is one of Nintendo's most successful franchise. And Greninja was well received. So what's wrong with six Pokémon?

This.
Not only is it economically a good option for nintendo but it'd make a lot of people happy. If I didn't play smash, and went to play ssb4 for the first time and saw mewtwo i'd lose my **** and play the game to death.

 

[Masonomace]

Guys...what if our sixth Pokemon rep...is Ditto? Think about it, he can replace the random slot, but basically function as the same thing. He'll randomly transform into other characters at the start of a match.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Ditto He's confirmed, Mewtwo was cut from Brawl, Ditto was cut from Melee ggs we have out 6th slot.
But yeah Mewtwo is only a villain in Mewtwo Strikes Back! He's neutral overall because he wants to mingle & chill with all of his zubats & friends.

Edit: Welcome to SmashBoards @ Stompu

 

[Stompu]

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Ditto He's confirmed, Mewtwo was cut from Brawl, Ditto was cut from Melee ggs we have out 6th slot.
But yeah Mewtwo is only a villain in Mewtwo Strikes Back! He's neutral overall because he wants to mingle & chill with all of his zubats & friends.

Edit: Welcome to SmashBoards @ Stompu

Thanks! Good to finally start posting haha

I actually don't mind the idea of Ditto though... He could have a fixed movespeed/fallspeed/jump etc, but when using transform (im guessing this could be all of his specials) he turns into the nearest character. It'd be kinda ******** for 4 player free for alls and single player, though haha

 

[Saikyoshi]

(Devil's Advocate Mode- This does not reflect my actual opinion or hopes. I'm just trying to get a little more hope for myself by testing the strength of the counterargument.)

No franchise is going to have more reps than Mario. No franchise is allowed to have more reps than Mario. That's the way it's always been because Nintendo adores him for some reason as their flagship franchise. Either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo are finished unless another Mario character is revealed, too, and spoiler alert, it's not Jigglypuff that's getting cut.

The only reason Brawl could get away with having six Pokémon reps is because three of them were blanketed under one character. Charizard may be popular enough even outside of the Pokémon fandom to be a reasonable addition, but Squirtle and Ivysaur would not have worked on their own. In Brawl, Pokémon had only four reps truly.

 

[Stompu]

(Devil's Advocate Mode- This does not reflect my actual opinion or hopes. I'm just trying to get a little more hope for myself by testing the strength of the counterargument.)

No franchise is going to have more reps than Mario. No franchise is allowed to have more reps than Mario. That's the way it's always been because Nintendo adores him for some reason as their flagship franchise. Either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo are finished unless another Mario character is revealed, too, and spoiler alert, it's not Jigglypuff that's getting cut.

The only reason Brawl could get away with having six Pokémon reps is because three of them were blanketed under one character. Charizard may be popular enough even outside of the Pokémon fandom to be a reasonable addition, but Squirtle and Ivysaur would not have worked on their own. In Brawl, Pokémon had only four reps truly.

You make a good point, but in all honesty I don't know that its necessarily true. Sure Mario is nintendos baby etc but there is a metric tonne of Pokemon content that has been in previous smash games. Take the pokeballs- that alone is SO much content from 1 franchise, when you consider how many different options there are for the pokemon that come out. Although its not characters, in a way it shows how important pokemon is to smash. The reason I would think Mewtwo won't return though is because (by my judgement anyway) it seems like he was somewhat replaced by Lucario on account of the similar movesets, and with Lucario's confirmed return in ssb4 I don't see why they'd include Mewtwo as well

 

[Thereallucario]

it's Lucario's (fault)

I can't let this go guys, I'm sorry.
Listen, stop using lucario as a scapegoat for Mewtwo not making it in. So many people think that its lucario's fault that Mewtwo was not in brawl, but that's not the case. Yes, lucario was placed into brawl at the last minute but not on Sakurai's terms. he was asked "politely" by gamefreek to promote there movie and Sakurai well... he's a nice guy. he won't turn down a serious request (similar to snake in brawl). Yes, this seems bad, until you take into effect that there was six pokemon in brawl, right? Do you know who had half of those pokemon belong to? The pokemon trainer. We also do know that lucario was added in before all characters where considered into the roster, right? pokemon trainer could have bean what kept Mewtwo from making it in. it actually makes more sense now that I look more into it because gen one had THREE pokemon from gen one in the game, thus making it very much easier to chose to remove Mewtwo from the game entirely. And I can guarantee that if pokemon trainer was removed from brawl that Mewtwo would have bean next in line but if Sakurai removed lucario, Mewtwo would have bean negated anyway.

So I know what your thinking, what at all does this have to do with Mewtwo and smash 4? Well it simple.

Lucario is a huge hint that Mewtwo stands a great chance of making it into smash.

Here is why; by the fans of Mewtwo and melee, lucario was basically shot at for being a scapegoat as you are doing now. But at the same time there where huge pockets of lucario supporters (like myself) who would be ashamed if this unique and totally badass character (matter of opinion) made it back into smash. he eventually did. This pushes the idea that Sakurai does care about the characters the fans really want this time around. witch in turn helps Mewtwo make his return. even so, wouldn't it be awesome to see Mewtwo and lucario battle it out for the victory? yeah, Sakurai thought so too.

 

[Masonomace]

(Devil's Advocate Mode- This does not reflect my actual opinion or hopes. I'm just trying to get a little more hope for myself by testing the strength of the counterargument.)

No franchise is going to have more reps than Mario. No franchise is allowed to have more reps than Mario. That's the way it's always been because Nintendo adores him for some reason as their flagship franchise. Either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo are finished unless another Mario character is revealed, too, and spoiler alert, it's not Jigglypuff that's getting cut.

The only reason Brawl could get away with having six Pokémon reps is because three of them were blanketed under one character. Charizard may be popular enough even outside of the Pokémon fandom to be a reasonable addition, but Squirtle and Ivysaur would not have worked on their own. In Brawl, Pokémon had only four reps truly.

I've accepted playing Devil's Advocate Mode!
Pokemon Trainer was a exclusive twist of a mechanic involving transformations switching (meh same thing during battle). That is the beauty of the character. Technically yes SSBBrawl had 4 Pokemon slots, but 6 playable characters, & those 3 pokemon were completely different characters with their own MatchUps & strategy. Transformations i.e. switching out is a key factor to playing Pokemon games, removed entirely in SSB4 with the Final Smash exceptions, are done, meaning Pokemon Trainer as an example to look at past is moot to bring up for this conversation. Transformations as a whole to bring up since Melee is not even a discussion anymore.

Mario as a separate universe franchise with counting only the Mario characters with the Mushroom emblem, lose to Pokemon in SSBBrawl in terms of playable characters, maybe not slots but with the Transformation/Switching gimmick removed, the gloves are off & Pokemon will probably have more slots than Mario does. Only way Mario won't lose out on number of represented slots is if they add 2+ more candidates. But meh we'll just have to see how many reps Pokemon gets.

 

[Stompu]

I've accepted playing Devil's Advocate Mode!
Pokemon Trainer was a exclusive twist of a mechanic involving transformations switching (meh same thing during battle). That is the beauty of the character. Technically yes SSBBrawl had 4 Pokemon slots, but 6 playable characters, & those 3 pokemon were completely different characters with their own MatchUps & strategy. Transformations i.e. switching out is a key factor to playing Pokemon games, removed entirely in SSB4 with the Final Smash exceptions, are done, meaning Pokemon Trainer as an example to look at past is moot to bring up for this conversation. Transformations as a whole to bring up since Melee is not even a discussion anymore.

Mario as a separate universe franchise with counting only the Mario characters with the Mushroom emblem, lose to Pokemon in SSBBrawl in terms of playable characters, maybe not slots but with the Transformation/Switching gimmick removed, the gloves are off & Pokemon will probably have more slots than Mario does. Only way Mario won't lose out on number of represented slots is if they add 2+ more candidates. But meh we'll just have to see how many reps Pokemon gets.

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Wario, Bowser and Yoshi makes 7
Lucario, Charizard, Pikachu and Greninja makes 4
Doesn't this mean that even if Jigglypuff and Mewtwo make it in Pokemon still has less characters? Unless one of the characters I said doesn't apply

 

[Winchester7314]

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Wario, Bowser and Yoshi makes 7
Lucario, Charizard, Pikachu and Greninja makes 4
Doesn't this mean that even if Jigglypuff and Mewtwo make it in Pokemon still has less characters? Unless one of the characters I said doesn't apply

Wario is not confirmed yet, while he is highly likeley, hes not confirmed in any way. (not that i believe this whole nonsense about more mario characters. Ive learned with sakurai, that there are no rules....he does what he wants, how he wants.

 

[Masonomace]

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, Wario, Bowser and Yoshi makes 7
Lucario, Charizard, Pikachu and Greninja makes 4
Doesn't this mean that even if Jigglypuff and Mewtwo make it in Pokemon still has less characters? Unless one of the characters I said doesn't apply

D= but but. . .

counting only the Mario characters with the Mushroom emblem, lose to Pokemon in SSBBrawl in terms of playable characters,

Wario & Yoshi have their own emblems to represent their universe even if they tie closely with Mario in the games (kind of a petty point to make about character slots but owell). But Mario's universe still got 1 extra addition being 5 so far, I feel Mario will get another rep I just don't know who's the most solid choice, possibly Bowser Jr. or something.

 

[Stompu]

Wario is not confirmed yet, while he is highly likeley, hes not confirmed in any way.

oh, right
Well considering we're including Jiggly I think its fair to include Wario anyway, still means less Pokemon than Mario

@ Masonomace my bad, still you could kiiinda put them under the same blanket

 

[Masonomace]

oh, right
Well considering we're including Jiggly I think its fair to include Wario anyway, still means less Pokemon than Mario

@ Masonomace my bad, still you could kiiinda put them under the same blanket

Agreed, Idk why Yoshi has his own emblem if he's so close to the Mario franchise. But then again Emblems represent an achievement to those characters saying, "yeah I earned this, I have games in my name/universe!"

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

now im probably reading it wrong but 6 pokemon reps is almost locked. if you guys still doubt it.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201

I believe sakurai stated he doesn't care how many characters per franschise

and lucina was never on that completed roster before sakurai began creating the game. (he said he already completed the roster before he started making the game and lucina was not on it.)

 

[Masonomace]

now im probably reading it wrong but 6 pokemon reps is almost locked. if you guys still doubt it.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201

I believe sakurai stated he doesn't care how many characters per franschise

and lucina was never on that completed roster before sakurai began creating the game. (he said he already completed the roster before he started making the game and lucina was not on it.)

All of the statements in bold were lovely to read & we love you Sakurai for thinking about the lackluster of rinse/repeat we wouldof seen from Chrom being similar to Marth/Ike/Lucina & chose to put in Robin for the unique play-style. Thank you Sakurai<3

Edit: I like how Sakurai explained that Lucina is a character for novice players, & that Marth will be more harder to use. Finally no more SH double Fair lols.

Double Edit:

When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

I love this quote from you Sakurai, you give me hope for all of the semi-clone characters we're anticipating of not returning. BANZAI!!! & I love you Masked Man for getting a copy of this which in tune Smashoperatingbuddy123 posted. Thank you all

 

[Saikyoshi]

(Still in D.A., mode, so nobody tries to quote me out of context. It's happened before.)

You make a good point, but in all honesty I don't know that its necessarily true. Sure Mario is nintendos baby etc but there is a metric tonne of Pokemon content that has been in previous smash games. Take the pokeballs- that alone is SO much content from 1 franchise, when you consider how many different options there are for the pokemon that come out. Although its not characters, in a way it shows how important pokemon is to smash. The reason I would think Mewtwo won't return though is because (by my judgement anyway) it seems like he was somewhat replaced by Lucario on account of the similar movesets, and with Lucario's confirmed return in ssb4 I don't see why they'd include Mewtwo as well

You do have a good point bringing up the Poké Ball, even stronger now that the Master Ball's here. But items and assists are different from playable characters - from the item roster in SSB4, you'd think Kid Icarus was the most important franchise in Nintendo's history.

I've accepted playing Devil's Advocate Mode!
Pokemon Trainer was a exclusive twist of a mechanic involving transformations switching (meh same thing during battle). That is the beauty of the character. Technically yes SSBBrawl had 4 Pokemon slots, but 6 playable characters, & those 3 pokemon were completely different characters with their own MatchUps & strategy. Transformations i.e. switching out is a key factor to playing Pokemon games, removed entirely in SSB4 with the Final Smash exceptions, are done, meaning Pokemon Trainer as an example to look at past is moot to bring up for this conversation. Transformations as a whole to bring up since Melee is not even a discussion anymore.

Mario as a separate universe franchise with counting only the Mario characters with the Mushroom emblem, lose to Pokemon in SSBBrawl in terms of playable characters, maybe not slots but with the Transformation/Switching gimmick removed, the gloves are off & Pokemon will probably have more slots than Mario does. Only way Mario won't lose out on number of represented slots is if they add 2+ more candidates. But meh we'll just have to see how many reps Pokemon gets.

No, Brawl took additional steps to ensure that Pokémon Trainer did not function as three separate characters but one with three stances. Remember Fatigue? Forced Switching?

I can't let this go guys, I'm sorry.
Listen, stop using lucario as a scapegoat for Mewtwo not making it in. So many people think that its lucario's fault that Mewtwo was not in brawl, but that's not the case. Yes, lucario was placed into brawl at the last minute but not on Sakurai's terms. he was asked "politely" by gamefreek to promote there movie and Sakurai well... he's a nice guy. he won't turn down a serious request (similar to snake in brawl). Yes, this seems bad, until you take into effect that there was six pokemon in brawl, right? Do you know who had half of those pokemon belong to? The pokemon trainer. We also do know that lucario was added in before all characters where considered into the roster, right? pokemon trainer could have bean what kept Mewtwo from making it in. it actually makes more sense now that I look more into it because gen one had THREE pokemon from gen one in the game, thus making it very much easier to chose to remove Mewtwo from the game entirely. And I can guarantee that if pokemon trainer was removed from brawl that Mewtwo would have bean next in line but if Sakurai removed lucario, Mewtwo would have bean negated anyway.

So I know what your thinking, what at all does this have to do with Mewtwo and smash 4? Well it simple.

Lucario is a huge hint that Mewtwo stands a great chance of making it into smash.

Here is why; by the fans of Mewtwo and melee, lucario was basically shot at for being a scapegoat as you are doing now. But at the same time there where huge pockets of lucario supporters (like myself) who would be ashamed if this unique and totally badass character (matter of opinion) made it back into smash. he eventually did. This pushes the idea that Sakurai does care about the characters the fans really want this time around. witch in turn helps Mewtwo make his return. even so, wouldn't it be awesome to see Mewtwo and lucario battle it out for the victory? yeah, Sakurai thought so too.

Let me stop you right there. I do like Lucario, but they have similar body types, voices, and neutral and side special moves... and reasons for being included.

Mewtwo was intended to share the roster with him, but was cut mid-development in favor of Lucario because his movie was not as recent as Lucario's.

Whether you like it or not, most of Super Smash Bros.'s fanbase is too young to remember Mewtwo. Until X&Y, many younger players thought he was a Fakémon because he couldn't be caught in Black & White. Lucario has a bigger impression on what is unfortunately the target audience.

 

[Winchester7314]

Mewtwo was intended to share the roster with him, but was cut mid-development in favor of Lucario because his movie was not as recent as Lucario's.

when making a solid argument it's important to use quotable facts, and not reasonable assumptions.