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Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

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Xiivi

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The original legendary Psychic Pokemon and low tier in Melee has very big chances to make it in Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U. Do you not believe us? Keep reading.

General Evidence:

-Most requested character in Japan.
-Most requested character according to a recent Miiverse poll after Snake.
-Popularity spike before and during SSB4's development with movies, Mega Evolutions and specials.
-Planned for all Smash Bros. games including 64 and Brawl.

Common counter arguments:

#1-Clone of Lucario

THE most common "argument" to Mewtwo's exclusion. This argument is the equivalent to Ridley's "too big" argument. Both Mewtwo and Lucario were planned for Brawl as Mewtwo is part of the Forbidden 7(unfinished character data), and there exists no concrete evidence that Lucario was to replace him. Other "facts" to this argument like similar moves, similar builds are irrelevant.
#2-Irrelevant in recent years/not popular

This argument is bogus because he's not irrelevant at all. Before SSB4's development, Mewtwo got a (controversial) movie centering around it and the legendary Pokemon Genesect, titled Extremespeed Genesect in Japan, as well as a prequel to said movie which also featured Mega Mewtwo Y. During SSB4's development, Pokemon: The Origins, which features both Charizard(included in Smash 4) and Mewtwo, came to exist and was used to promote Pokemon X Y Versions. In X and Y, Mewtwo gets version specific Mega Evolutions, the only other Pokemon to do so besides Charizard(who gets Mega Charizard X as his Final Smash). So no, Mewtwo is not irrelevant at all.
#3-Greninja trailer deconfirmed him

One of the more common arguments and the most debatable. Here's an argument debated by @LIQUIDFGC and @Speed .

Original post by LIQUIDFGC

I just thought of something:

And yes, I am stealing from @Speed 's post. Don't complain, Speed. Go take some speed and feel better C:

He ranted on the fact that Greninja's model was altered to fool us. I'd like to say something to that point:

GRENINJA HAS PECTORALS FOR SOME REASON

(yes, that's my ipad, 2lazy to go to computer)



I mean seriously, look at it upside down and it looks like an upper chest with pecs and all. Don't give me "it's his butt" or something like that. Greninja clearly knows how to use that Protean ability to preform temporary metamorphosis, since he's aware of the humans recording him in poor lighting conditions. He had many fooled.

TLDR: My perception of things is interesting.

Chain of replies to Golden Yuiitusin on the matter, starting with him:

...I'm still not seeing it.
Let's break your questions down then:

Too many oddities preventing me from making the Mewtwo connection that damn near everyone else seemed to have made at first sight.
Then let's break down these oddities:

.....why would Mewtwo be upside down?
Because psychics and poses and mystical meditation rituals, oh my. I don't know either. Maybe he meditates when he's not competing in Project M.

Granted, I was in class during the Direct, so I knew about Greninja before I saw the trailer.
I came from school and a friend in a chatroom spoiled it for me, so we're in the same position.

But if I had seen it first-hand during the Direct, my first reaction would've been "What the hell is that?" not "Holy crap it's Mewtwo!" I would've even guessed Greninja given that the thing did a hand seal before charging something reminiscent of the Rasenshuriken (and I knew it wouldn't actually be Naruto) and was featured in a trailer filled with Pokémon.
Blue is something associated with water and to a lesser extent the sky, so some of the more XY-savvy viewers could have guessed Greninja from the second shot of Water Shuriken charging. And if the third shot didn't give you away with the water droplets coming from it, well, that's the biggest surprise to anyone. Mewtwo has no moves(that he'd sensibly use) that glow blue at any point, except Aura Sphere, which belongs to Lucario in Sm4sh. I watched the trailer knowing Greninja was in, and there are way too many clues in retrospect that give away Greninja, but like @Speed ranted about a few pages ago and killed me over it, Greninja's body looks...off.

First off, NO WEBBING BETWEEN FINGERS. I don't care if Greninja's Protean ability lets it do stuff, but you can clearly see that there is no webbing between his fingers when he begins charging Water Shuriken, and it looks suspiciously like Mewtwo's render from Melee:



Upon further analysis, that makes no sense.

Now, look at Greninja's bottom, or if you look at it upside down, "chest".

To some extent, yes, it looks super exaggerated and could be a hint to Femtwo but what do I know, but Mewtwo is a humanoid 'Mon, after all, and as such is has humanly features like a chest. Like I said, looks exaggerated, but hey, I can dream, can't I?

#4-Not shown in prevalent leaks

Uh-huh. How many of the major credible leaks have shown requested characters like Ridley? Gematsu didn't. The roster leak didn't. The only "leaks" to Mewtwo's inclusion/exclusion are from wonky sources. Thus, they should be discredited.

#5-Too much competition

Right. Competition. Only viable competitor at this point in time is the odd Sceptile. Zoroark and Genesect are Pokeball summons. More details below.

Other facts:

List composed by @Omnireader and continuously updated:

I'll take care of this.
1. Mewtwo was planned to be in Smash 64 and Brawl. King Dedede and Bowser were planned in Smash 64 as well. All three were playable during development, but were cut before release. Mewtwo wasn't present in Brawl as a playable character due to technical difficulties and time restraints.
Link to source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122504575&postcount=428


2. With the release of Pokemon X and Y, his popularity has spiked. He even got new forms. He was also the only Pokemon besides Charizard to get 2 separate Mega forms.

3. There was a recent movie "Genesect and the Legend Awakened" where Mewtwo was a main character. Another recent anime appearance was in "Pokemon Origins" as the last pokemon Red caught. The latter may be a bit too recent to be considered as evidence, though.

4. During an interview involving Pokemon X and Y, someone asked "Is there a possibility that these new forms of Mewtwo will be included in the new Smash Brothers game?" Sakurai was in the audience and replied, after some hesitation, "We are thinking about it." This interview took place after the entire roster had been decided already. Other than this, there hasn't been a single hint of Mewtwo's involvement in Sm4sh.
Full article here: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/mewtwo-may-return-in-next-smash-bros#.U91btPldW3g


5. Mewtwo did not make an appearance in the Greninja trailer as one of the background Pokemon. Surely if Mewtwo wasn't a playable character, he would at least make an appearance in the game in some form. Sakurai has also acknowledged that there are Pokemon in Sm4sh that did not appear in that trailer.

Also relating to the Greninja trailer: Greninja's silhouette was altered during the trailer to deceive viewers. Suspiciously altered to somewhat match Mewtwo's anatomy. There's no way to confirm if this was intentional or not. Either way, Sakurai is very much aware of Mewtwo's popularity and doing this was more than likely a tease.

This is the said "Greninja Trailer" if you have not seen it yet:


6. All of Mewtwo's other competition for playable characters have been pretty much eliminated. (further explained in #9) The "6 Pokemon Slots" theory is taken into account here. If there are going to be 6 or more Pokemon characters, Mewtwo's chances can be considered 100%.

7. In a recent popularity poll, Mewtwo was voted #2 in a list of the top 100 Pokemon. Charizard being #1.
Here's a link to the poll: http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon


8. There was also a recent Miiverse poll asking fans what veterans they wanted to return to the next game. These were the results:

9. Mewtwo has little competition outside of the oh-so-relevant Zoroark, the similarly promoted Genesect, and the theorized Grass starter Sceptile. The former two have been shown in trailers and Pokeballs respectively, thus deconfirming them. Sceptile has the "Grass, Water, Fire Theory" going for it plus "Omega Ruby" and "Alpha Sapphire" coming out, but it's a long stretch.

If I missed any good points. Someone feel free to point them out. I will definitely consider adding them to the list.




Mewtwo for Sm4sh!!!

I hope for this post to be moved to the first page. I plan on continually updating it.

Comment by Director Masahiro Sakurai on Mewtwo's inclusion in 2013:

June 18 2013 by Tyler Meehan
Mewtwo was once seen as the ultimate Pokémon -- not only was he the final monster to be found in the original games, he also had the most backstory of any Pokémon at the time and received several large roles in the anime and movies. It's little wonder, then, that he appeared as an unlockable character in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Fans of his unique abilities and fighting style for that game were disappointed to find him missing in Brawl, and they have since been clamoring for Mewtwo's return. This possibility was made more likely given his recently revealed new forms for Pokémon X and Y, and now Sakurai may have added more fuel to the fire.

At last week's Pokémon X and Pokémon Y Developer Roundtable, one of the attendees managed to ask about Mewtwo's new form and his chance at appearing in the next Smash Bros. Sakurai was apparently in the audience; according to the reporter, he 'looked as if he were thinking, "Oh man, not this again!" after the question was asked.' That still didn't stop him from giving his own answer to the question:

After a brief moment of silence, Ishihara and Masuda answered by saying they don’t have anything to announce about the new Pokémon (Mewtwo’s new form) today, and that they can't speak on its appearance in other games. Sakurai then shouted out, from the audience, "We are thinking about it."
What do you think? Would you be excited to see the 'Genetic Pokémon' return toSuper Smash Bros., or would you prefer they bring in a representative of newer generations? If Mewtwo did return, would you want his moveset to be updated, or should they stick with his Melee abilities? Let us know in the comments, and be sure to check out how we think Mewtwo should work in the next Smash!

- See more at: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/mewtwo-may-return-in-next-smash-bros#.VAHl4PldUzl


So what are you waiting for? Join the supporters!
 
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Mr. Johan

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Bring him back, make him feel like he's actually 260 pounds, replace Disable with his brand new Psystrike, and he's ready to go.
 

hamyojo

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Bringing Mewtwo back would be just enough to make me buy this game, despite the fact it's going to be way less competitive. Mewtwo's my lover.
Psystrike is the only reason they would even consider him.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I loved playing as Mewtwo. I think he could be fixed up great.

He was one of the characters I selected the most, if nothing else but to show my skill to the person I was fighting against.
 

Mr. Johan

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Psystrike is the signature move Mewtwo got in Black and White.

No idea what it would look like though. We'd need to have it on a console Pokemon game or the Pokemon anime in order to imagine aesthetics for it, like we did for Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere.
 

Get Low

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Psystrike is the signature move Mewtwo got in Black and White.
Mewtwo was in Black and White? Geez, it's been far too long since I've picked up a Pokemon game.
That's sort of good news though. If he was in a relatively newer game, that only increases his chances of being in Smash 4.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I'd still want Shadow Ball to be his main attack. I loved shadow ball, and how charging it harmed other players
 

Steelia

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Mewtwo was in Black and White? Geez, it's been far too long since I've picked up a Pokemon game.
He wasn't physically in BW (or Black 2/White 2), but he was distributed as an event semi-recently...
But yeah, Psystrike is his new signature move, and it's beast.


As far as Mewtwo goes, here's a list of various places he's cropped up in since his cut:

~He was the lead legendary Pokemon icon when used in a Pokemon expo some years back.
~Was the lead boss of the WiiWare game "Pokemon Rumble"; even got his own battle tune.
~Became the lead boss of the DS game "Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs".
~Was included in the Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal remakes "Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver".
~Got signature move in Pokemon Black/Pokemon White "Psystrike".
~Mewtwo returned as a major boss character in "Pokemon Rumble Blast" for the 3DS.
~Led in a new generation of Pokemon EX cards for the TCG called "Mewtwo-EX Returns"... seen here.
~Was distributed in a special wifi event, knowing special move "Electro Ball", in conjunction with his return to the TCG.
~Is featured as a prominent character in and is on the front cover of the Pokemon crossover title "Pokemon Conquest".
~Is going to be redistributed in the TCG again in a special tin, and new card.
~In a recent "Top 100 Reader's Choice Pokemon" poll held by IGN in the US, Mewtwo was ranked as #2 out of all potential 649 Pokemon (topped only by the giant flying fire-breathing not-Dragon lizard).

During SSBB's development, he was also included in a major arc in the Pokemon Adventures manga to fight Deoxys (wielding his infamous psychic spoon), and was the "strongest mirage Pokemon" in a 10th Anniversary Pokemon special titled "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon".


Mewtwo's been anything but silent these last few years. I believe GAME FREAK has been testing Mewtwo's popularity since the backlash of hate they got for removing him, and I think it's safe to say he's still the most wanted cut character to return in the franchise... Him, and probably Roy.
 

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If you've seen the old Wii U thread and stuff that was posted there (such as Japanese support), Mewtwo is by far the most popular character for the next game, even beating out all other newcomers. Mewtwo is more or less the next Sonic. lol

Besides that he's always been popular and prominiate within the Pokemon series. Other than cuts for time, which are looking really good now at not happening seeing as BN is working on the game as well. Not to mention his exclusion was the only flaw most people and reviewers saw in Brawl's roster, I'd almost say he's a shoe in.
 

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Mewtwo definitely should come back. I mean, he was at least planned for all three previous Smashes.
 

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Make it happen Sakurai.
 

lordvaati

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^THAT. DO. THAT.

Psystrike is the signature move Mewtwo got in Black and White.

No idea what it would look like though. We'd need to have it on a console Pokemon game or the Pokemon anime in order to imagine aesthetics for it, like we did for Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere.
one way I see it working is M2 opening his hand and then crushing it, making a cluster of energy close around where the enemy was standing. best example i could think of is the Gravity Bomb from megaman. of course you can dodge it, obviously.
 

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I do think Pokemon will get 5 slots - they can't just kick both Lucario and Mewtwo to the curb. Brawl, they had an excuse to keep it at 4 slots because they brought in 3 new movesets with Pokemon Trainer. This time, there'll just be the token new 5th gen rep. Zoroark probably won't even be the 5th gen Pokemon who gets in, so it'll be more awkward to replace it to keep it as "that one humanoid slot".

As far as Lucario vs. Mewtwo. . .

Mewtwo's popularity has fallen all it's going to. He's history, but he's still got the popularity. Lucario, on the other hand, has been on the decline with the 5th gen.

Sakurai also still has heavy bias for the 1st gen, as evidenced by adding Pokemon Trainer.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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If Mewtwo ever does return, it really needs moveset adjustments. Additionally, its weight needs to be buffed up too; I'd say around Wario's weight.
 

JordantheGiant

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If Mewtwo ever does return, it really needs moveset adjustments. Additionally, its weight needs to be buffed up too; I'd say around Wario's weight.
Bring him back heavier and with a few move changes.
Respex.

And so (according to the poster above) we are looking at:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Mewtwo/Lucario
Zoroark/Victini/Genosect/dare I say 6th gen rep?

Sounds about right to me.
 

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Sakurai also still has heavy bias for the 1st gen, as evidenced by adding Pokemon Trainer.
Pokemon Trainer adopted his FRLG design for Brawl, so he's technically the representative for Gen III.

As for Mewtwo, he got some face time as a boss character in Pokemon Conquest, so he's had some recent spotlight, and could be used alongside Jigglypuff to promote Conquest.
 

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Getting a representative for each generation or game seems unnecessary, and I doubt it would be a large factor in the roster decisions anyway. I don't know what Mewtwo's actual popularity is in comparison to newer Pokemon, but if any character could come back from getting cut from Brawl, it's either Mewtwo or Roy.

It seems like Sakurai has a thing for eventually finishing what he started. Mewtwo was planned for Brawl but didn't fully make it in. Just like Bowser or Peach didn't make it in 64 but made it in Melee, or Final Smashes didn't make it into 64 but showed up in Brawl...

Maybe he'll have time to put him (back) in this version?
 

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Sakurai also still has heavy bias for the 1st gen, as evidenced by adding Pokemon Trainer.
Bah, there's no proof in that, if anything Sakurai doesn't care at all about Generations. With Pichu not being planned originally for Melee and was only added for buffing up the roster quick as well as no Gen 2 or 3 in Brawl.

PT was more or less added to the requests for his Pokemon to be playable, not to mention Red is the main character of the series. You also really can't go wrong with making Charizard, who's arguably the most popular Pokemon ever, playable. There's even rumors that he tried to add PT in Melee.


Mewtwo's always been a major Pokemon, there's no real need to worry about him being prominate...not that it hurts to add to his resume.
 

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Sonic Storm meant that the Pokémon Trainer's design is the redesign of the original trainer from Fire Red and Leaf Green (3rd generation Pokémon games).

As for Mewtwo, Psystrike seems like the perfect "super kill move" Final Smash.

Another thing I'd like to add: regardless of Mewtwo's weight, I believe he should be super floaty. He just "feels right" that way, you know mah smash brothas=??? :shades:
 

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^ Having messed around with SSBM hax and such, I was able to alter his weight to just about Ganon's, but he still retained that floatiness... It feels extremely fitting for him. Makes it so he doesn't die as quickly, but keeps him up in the air longer than most.

Those psychics, I tell you.
 

Lechteron

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I would like Lucario to stay more or less the same with the spiritual successor to Mewtwo move set. I like it. Then bring back Mewtwo with a completely revamped move set. Heavy and still floaty. He should be able to glide as well. Maybe when he teleports you could input some directions quickly like with Pikachu to change it up but at each connection point it'd leave an illusory Mewtwo that does what ever Mewtwo does like Ice Climbers except that they stay in that one spot and any attacks they do don't actually do damage. It's just for mind games. The illussions would go away when they come in contact with any damaging move, even Fox's blaster. Hits would just go through them.
 

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^he already had one of the best recovies in melee(in fact I think it was the best behind puff) so a glide would be Overkill.

I agree he needs a weight around Ganon or Samus' level.
 

Pseudomaniac

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I would like Lucario to stay more or less the same with the spiritual successor to Mewtwo move set. I like it. Then bring back Mewtwo with a completely revamped move set. Heavy and still floaty. He should be able to glide as well. Maybe when he teleports you could input some directions quickly like with Pikachu to change it up but at each connection point it'd leave an illusory Mewtwo that does what ever Mewtwo does like Ice Climbers except that they stay in that one spot and any attacks they do don't actually do damage. It's just for mind games. The illussions would go away when they come in contact with any damaging move, even Fox's blaster. Hits would just go through them.
Lucario had 1 move that was similar to Mewtwo's, and his character physics were completely different. That's not a clone, semiclone, or even spiritual successor.

Anyhow, rant done. As far as Mewtwo's return is concerned...

 

Johnknight1

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Honestly, the :lucariobrawl: comparisons have been stupid for years. :lucariobrawl: has 1 move similar to :mewtwomelee:, which is also similar to a move :samusbrawl: has. Actually, :lucariobrawl: is more like :samusbrawl: than :mewtwomelee:! :laugh:
^ Having messed around with SSBM hax and such, I was able to alter his weight to just about Ganon's, but he still retained that floatiness... It feels extremely fitting for him. Makes it so he doesn't die as quickly, but keeps him up in the air longer than most.

Those psychics, I tell you.
Yeah, Mewtwo's floatiness just "fits" Mewtwo like a hand in a glove. BTW, how does Mewtwo "feel" when he isn't in league with weak characters like Pichu=??? :laugh:
 

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Yeah, Mewtwo's floatiness just "fits" Mewtwo like a hand in a glove. BTW, how does Mewtwo "feel" when he isn't in league with weak characters like Pichu=??? :laugh:
lol, I tampered with chars like Pichu too, but having Smash attacks that deal Bowser levels of damage is very satisfying. Keeping his tail attacks weak, but his psychic-related attacks very strong, is what it looks like Sakurai had intended for M2 in Melee... but without the ability to string together his weaker attacks, or shove opponents away easily with his tail, really hurt the character.

That's more of what Mewtwo SHOULD become, just like in the games; he has good physical power, but his few psychic moves should show the power he truly possesses... Shadow Claw, his nair, his back and upward throws, and Shadow Ball are great examples of this. His other psychic moves could've used a little more beefing, and he should've possessed just a few more psy-related moves in general.
 

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LOL that's awesome that you made Pichu exactly how I would like Pichu in smash; a gamble character (if it were to return; go to the Pichu thread to see my thoughts). :laugh:

Also, Mewtwo I think should have a lot of range attacks or attacks with a lot of range, and like in the Pokémon games, he should rely almost exclusively on psychic attacks (whether close-range or long-range) rather than physical attacks. Imagining Mewtwo fighting nearly entire with his psychic powers would be pretty awesome! :shades:
 

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Dont forget one of the main characters in the new Pokemon Conquest game gets a Mewtwo (iir his name is Kenshin).

Also, Psystrike would look like Disable where Mewtwo swipes his head sharply. Then a disjointed purple slash would hit the opponent.

:phone:
 

lordvaati

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^ sounds more like Psycho Cut. also Psycho cut would be a good replacement for one of his specials.

now, movement speed. what are your thoughts on this? M2 is one of the fastest pokes in the main games(140 speed or something like that), so should he get a ground speed buff?
 

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Hmm. Below Falcon, Fox, and (potentially) Sonic, above everyone else in speed? Sounds fitting enough for him, he's certainly faster than Pikachu at least. Falcon's a strong & fast character, why couldn't Mewtwo be one? Instead of making him the stereotypical slow, powerful villainous character. |:
 

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I think his speed in Pokemon is simply from teleportation lol I don't think Mewtwo physically moves all that fast
 

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He has a Base Speed stat of 130.

Speed in the Pokemon games often varies, but it alludes to movement speed more often than not. Pokemon heralded for their speed in their Dex entries such as Accelgor and Ninjask have 140+ Speed to demonstrate it, but the few oddball high Speed Pokemon such as Electrode are rare. So Mewtwo being lightning-fast is more consistent.
 

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The irony of all this is that Pichu's base speed is 60, but it outruns Mewtwo in Melee.

Anyway, Mewtwo's 130 base speed in the RPGs doesn't mean that it should be a fast character. After all, Charizard is a sluggish walker in Brawl. But I do think that Mewtwo's running speed should get a buff.
 
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