Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Scoliosis Jones]

They aren't going to make two amiibos for an indie characters.

At best, we're back to square one, but that also means we're back to the problem of Shovel Knight not being a big name and not even being known in Japan.


A game was simply about how it played, we'd still have Dragon King: The Fighting Game. Part of what makes Smash work is that it is about Nintendo characters and content. Why were people upset at the Subspace Emissary. It was very much in part because you weren't fighting Nintendo enemies but generic ones. But if it's just about fun, then why would the enemy matter. You'd only have them as obstacles which the Subspace enemies do very well. Its about Nintendo content.

The problem with third party characters is they aren't Nintendo. The reason the ones we have work now is because they were characters who were very well known and had a special relationship with Nintendo. Nintendo remained the focus. Adding Shovel Knights the games are not longer about the world of Nintendo but are about cramming any character who will make people buy the game. Thus, Super Smash Brothers loses the magic that made it something special. I had long said you can't add that many third party characters because they would be less and less special and would reach a point of being lame. Shovel Knight is an extreme example of that as a lot of people were actually against it (see my original post for examples of that).

I think what the series needs to do is return to Nintendo only. It might suck losing Sonic and Megaman, but the series needs focus and there isn't any third party character out there that all fans would agree with. Smash 4 very much went in the direction of guest characters as it added 3 new ones while there was only 12 new Nintendo characters (in contrast, Brawl was 2 and 14). If Melee and 64 could work without guest characters, than the new one will as well. What makes Smash a success is that it is accessible, gives players a lot of characters, and the Nintendo lore.

Fair, but then to be devils advocate, if Smash had all the Nintendo content available, yet was really boring to play, would it be the juggernaut that it is? I would say no. SSE sucked, but that's a different beast from a single character.

Shovel Knight (IIRC) started on Nintendo platforms and has have very good success on Nintendo platforms. I would argue that the relationship between Nintendo and Sonic, Pac-Man and Ryu are hardly anything compared to Mega Man. Sonic didn't appear on a Nintendo console until SA2, Ryu hasn't appeared in a mainstream Street Fighter title since a loooooooooong time ago, and Pac-Man...eh. He's had some releases here or there, but I'd say their status as icons is what got them in at all.

I mean believe me, I understand people are against it, because, as I would agree, it seems forced. It seems like Shovel Knight just kinda came out of nowhere. However, Nintendo seems to be taking a lot of attention to Shovel Knight if he's getting an amiibo. That's a big deal to an indie developer.

The problem with removing 3rd parties at this point, is the fact that...well, it takes away star power. Sure, Melee and 64 were fine. But Brawl took us down a path that is hard to go back on. The hype matchup that is Mario vs. Sonic would be gone. Mario v Sonic v Mega Man v Pac-Man would be gone. If we remove them, the 4 unique movesets that came with them are gone as well. As well as the content (stages, music, trophies, etc...) that those series brought.

I'll just disagree with you on the 3rd party portion, but I do agree that Shovel Knight is a major step down from what we've had. While I do support Snake and feel that he's up right there with them (I mean come on, look at all the social media buzz about MGS, it's a titantic of a series!), Shovel Knight DOES FEEL like a step down.

I'm willing to look past that, however, if I enjoy playing the character. But that's just me.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

lol Mach Rider. Excitebiker is way more iconic.

I know right? Excitebiker will always be the original badass biker in Nintendo history and not that edgy sci-fi showoff.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A game was simply about how it played, we'd still have Dragon King: The Fighting Game. Part of what makes Smash work is that it is about Nintendo characters and content. Why were people upset at the Subspace Emissary. It was very much in part because you weren't fighting Nintendo enemies but generic ones. But if it's just about fun, then why would the enemy matter. You'd only have them as obstacles which the Subspace enemies do very well. Its about Nintendo content.

The problem with third party characters is they aren't Nintendo. The reason the ones we have work now is because they were characters who were very well known and had a special relationship with Nintendo. Nintendo remained the focus. Adding Shovel Knights the games are not longer about the world of Nintendo but are about cramming any character who will make people buy the game. Thus, Super Smash Brothers loses the magic that made it something special. I had long said you can't add that many third party characters because they would be less and less special and would reach a point of being lame. Shovel Knight is an extreme example of that as a lot of people were actually against it (see my original post for examples of that).

I think what the series needs to do is return to Nintendo only. It might suck losing Sonic and Megaman, but the series needs focus and there isn't any third party character out there that all fans would agree with. Smash 4 very much went in the direction of guest characters as it added 3 new ones while there was only 12 new Nintendo characters (in contrast, Brawl was 2 and 14). If Melee and 64 could work without guest characters, than the new one will as well. What makes Smash a success is that it is accessible, gives players a lot of characters, and the Nintendo lore.

I know this is your opinion, so if it seems i'm bashing it, Ill say right now that i'm not. But I don't think that should ever happen. If anything there should be more. Celebrating Nintendo is fine, but celebrating all of gaming is even better. Havng characters like Shatae,Shovel Knght, Rayman, Mega Man, Sonic, and Black Mage mak the game o muc mre thn it evr could be with just Nintndo charcters. And right now we are getting to the pint where we are running out of Ninteno characters to put in the game.

(yes I no ho to spell but I am tird of correcting the "mistakes" cused by my keyboard not registering the keystoks.You get what im saying.)

 

[smashkirby]

So, nothing from Nindies@Night?

 

[MainJPW]

Sonic didn't appear on a Nintendo console until SA2.

Well, he did technically appear on the SNES:

Well, just his shoes.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So, nothing from Nindies@Night?

it isnt until 8 PST I believe so it hasn't happened yet.

Unrelated but after playing certain DS game I now want a certain rhythm based trio in smash . . .

Spoiler

These 3 would be so awesome. . .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know right? Excitebiker will always be the original badass biker in Nintendo history and not that edgy sci-fi showoff.

What about Tron?

it isnt until 8 PST I believe so it hasn't happened yet.

Unrelated but after playing certain DS game I now want a certain rhythm based trio in smash . . .

Spoiler

These 3 would be so awesome. . .

Not a Rhythm Heaven character. 0/10

Just kidding. I honestly know nothing about them other than they exist, so I have no reason to not want them. (No reason to want them either though.)

 

[KimKarsmashian]

I need to block Smashboards because I keep checking to see if there's any confirmation of SK. I think I'm coming to terms with it possibly happening, although I'm still not happy about it. It still raises the question of who winner #2 is. Because if he is the ONLY winner, the salt will return.

Welp, time to prepare for Smash 6, as Sakurai calls it. *draws Miiverse ads*

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Maybe people shouldn't be seeing the ballot as just a suggestion box; maybe Sakurai truly is going to add in the most requested characters (as long as they can work well into the game and as long as Nintendo can legally get them in). If Shovel Knight really is one of the most requested characters on the ballot who is Sakurai to not add him in? Like Sakurai said, it's going to be purely fan service from here on out. The ballot isn't about who the fans deem to be the most deserving, it's about what the fans want, so we shouldn't be too surprised if someone as highly requested as Shovel Knight gets in. Don't get me wrong, I still don't think he deserves to be a playable character AT ALL, but that's irrelevant.

 

[Arcadenik]

So people are getting angry over the possibility that Shovel Knight might actually get in Smash?

 

[~Krystal~]

So people are getting angry over the possibility that Shovel Knight might actually get in Smash?

It looks like it to me. I don't care either way. Good for his fans, I just hope we get at least one Nintendo newcomer when it's all over with, because we haven't scrapped the bottom of the barrel yet.

 

[DeathFox137]

So people are getting angry over the possibility that Shovel Knight might actually get in Smash?

Yeah. Pretty much. To be honest, I don't mind him at this point. In fact, I don't mind whoever gets in as DLC. Snake, Isaac, you name it. That's why I try to wait for official announcements to see what they can bring to the table.

 

[Bowserlick]

After the recent Mad Max movie, I was hoping Mach Rider would get a bump in the polls.

 

[SmashChu]

Fair, but then to be devils advocate, if Smash had all the Nintendo content available, yet was really boring to play, would it be the juggernaut that it is? I would say no. SSE sucked, but that's a different beast from a single character.

Shovel Knight (IIRC) started on Nintendo platforms and has have very good success on Nintendo platforms. I would argue that the relationship between Nintendo and Sonic, Pac-Man and Ryu are hardly anything compared to Mega Man. Sonic didn't appear on a Nintendo console until SA2, Ryu hasn't appeared in a mainstream Street Fighter title since a loooooooooong time ago, and Pac-Man...eh. He's had some releases here or there, but I'd say their status as icons is what got them in at all.

I mean believe me, I understand people are against it, because, as I would agree, it seems forced. It seems like Shovel Knight just kinda came out of nowhere. However, Nintendo seems to be taking a lot of attention to Shovel Knight if he's getting an amiibo. That's a big deal to an indie developer.

The problem with removing 3rd parties at this point, is the fact that...well, it takes away star power. Sure, Melee and 64 were fine. But Brawl took us down a path that is hard to go back on. The hype matchup that is Mario vs. Sonic would be gone. Mario v Sonic v Mega Man v Pac-Man would be gone. If we remove them, the 4 unique movesets that came with them are gone as well. As well as the content (stages, music, trophies, etc...) that those series brought.

I'll just disagree with you on the 3rd party portion, but I do agree that Shovel Knight is a major step down from what we've had. While I do support Snake and feel that he's up right there with them (I mean come on, look at all the social media buzz about MGS, it's a titantic of a series!), Shovel Knight DOES FEEL like a step down.

I'm willing to look past that, however, if I enjoy playing the character. But that's just me.

The bold is what I'm getting at. It's not about star power but Nintendo lore.

The soul of Smash Brothers is Nintendo. Would it be a good game if it wasn't fun. No, but that is also a basic requirement for a video game. A game being good, in that it plays well and its a game with clear rules, does not make a successes. Smash is successful because it does three things: accessibility, replay-ability, and Nintendo lore. Nintendo lore is the magic of the game. Even if you lose star power, it doesn't matter because the soul of the game is Nintendo lore. TO make Smash do better is to expand the lore. The reason people love Melee's adventure mode's over Brawl's is because Melee used Nintendo locations. We went through the Mushroom Kingdom. You explored dungeons. You escaped Brinstar. You played Nintendo. This is also why Smash Run made sure to focus on Nintendo enemies over made-up ones.

The reason Shovel Knight is jumping the shark is because no longer does the soul matter. Shovel Knight has very little to do with Nintendo. There is no history there. So adding him is a cheap marketing gimmick to capitalize on its current success. I do think Shovel Knight will not stand the test of time. Many indie games are fads and Shovel Knight rode the retro trend. Sonic, Megaman and Ryu work because they have some history with Nintendo (which could be argued) and are long running characters.

The issue is that we've hit the limit on third party characters and there is no more benefit to having them. A lot of the characters that come up aren't that special. Sonic and Megaman were characters almost everyone wanted, which is why they worked. But already we are seeing a division on these characters (and not just me). That's because fans know its about Nintendo and third parties are good as long as they enhance that or don't get in the way.

What makes a guest interesting is that they are unique. Different. Special. But if every other character is a guest, then it gets dumb. Smash works by being discriminatory and Shovel Knight throws that concept to the wind. Mind you, this has been the same for the Nintendo characters. The thing is third parties are moving in the wrong direction, and with the series getting closer to a fine line, it needs to return to more Nintendo. Expanding that is what will make fans happy.

EDITleaned it up a bit. Wrote this kind of late.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

The only reason I'll get salty about Shovel Knight is that he's a fledgling character with only one game under his belt so far. For me, it's pretty much the same reaction I had to Dark Pit; "As long as we get someone I actually care for in the roster, I can accept it."

If, and only if, SK is the ONLY ballot character, THEN I'll get pissed off, because that means Sakurai is caving into making Smash just a vehicle for advertising. Dark Pit and Lucina really only got in to promote Uprising and Awakening (and only got in by being easy to make), and Shovel Knight really would have only gotten in to promote his game and Amiibo.

Let's put it this way; if it was an all-star, nobody would have cared. But Shovel Knight is, so far, an untested indie character who may not be iconic. Thus, he's a possible indication of Smash becoming nothing more than a vehicle to shill out popular indies. At least if we got Shantae, she's already a part of a well-established franchise.

 

[Arcadenik]

If only there was a Simon Belmont amiibo...

Nothing against Shovel Knight... just that I wish Simon is getting in too.

 

[Aetheri]

If only there was a Midna amiibo...just sayin....although she'd probably be Rare AF!

 

[JaidynReiman]

If only there was a Midna amiibo...just sayin....although she'd probably be Rare AF!

I think she possibly could get one in the inevitable Legend of Zelda Amiibo line.

The only reason I'll get salty about Shovel Knight is that he's a fledgling character with only one game under his belt so far. For me, it's pretty much the same reaction I had to Dark Pit; "As long as we get someone I actually care for in the roster, I can accept it."

If, and only if, SK is the ONLY ballot character, THEN I'll get pissed off, because that means Sakurai is caving into making Smash just a vehicle for advertising. Dark Pit and Lucina really only got in to promote Uprising and Awakening (and only got in by being easy to make), and Shovel Knight really would have only gotten in to promote his game and Amiibo.

Let's put it this way; if it was an all-star, nobody would have cared. But Shovel Knight is, so far, an untested indie character who may not be iconic. Thus, he's a possible indication of Smash becoming nothing more than a vehicle to shill out popular indies. At least if we got Shantae, she's already a part of a well-established franchise.

If there's only two characters I'd be salty about Shovel Knight. Three or more and I'll be ok, but still think a different third-party character should've gotten in over him.

 

[Doctor3AM]

Still nothing from Nindies@Night?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Apparently Yacht Club Games has been working on Amiibo since last year.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Still nothing from Nindies@Night?

The entire presentation is over now. They showed off several games, and confirmed the Shovel Knight Amiibo. Which has nothing at all to do with Smash Bros. They didn't even mention Smash at all during the whole thing.

Apparently Yacht Club Games has been working on Amiibo since last year.

I think it may be that they were trying to secure it since last year, and it took a while to form an agreement. They didn't quite clarify, but I doubt they've been literally working on it since last year.

 

[Aetheri]

I think she possibly could get one in the inevitable Legend of Zelda Amiibo line.

Possibly...or y'know she could get one in the Smash Bros line...but I guess I can't be too picky...

 

[JaidynReiman]

Possibly...or y'know she could get one in the Smash Bros line...but I guess I can't be too picky...

Yeah.... I don't see that happening.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

If people threw this much kerfufle over a Shovel Knight Amiibo, what would happen if they revealed a Ridley and K.Rool amiibo 2-pack?

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

If people threw this much kerfufle over a Shovel Knight Amiibo, what would happen if they revealed a Ridley and K.Rool amiibo 2-pack?

The scalpers would go bankrupt

 

[Kenith]

I think it may be that they were trying to secure it since last year, and it took a while to form an agreement. They didn't quite clarify, but I doubt they've been literally working on it since last year.

We’ve been working on it for over a year!

- Yacht Club Games

Interpret as you must but that is what they said.

 

[JaidynReiman]

- Yacht Club Games

Interpret as you must but that is what they said.

I know they said they were working on it for a year. I'm just saying, but it could've just as easily meant "we've been working on trying to secure it." Nintendo Amiibo, for example, do not take a full year to make. For Yacht Club, they probably drew up plans first, consulted Nintendo about the possibility and had to convince them to let them make the Amiibo, then they worked out details on who would produce it and publish it, finalized the design for the Amiibo, figured out how it would work in game, and finally put it into full production.


For Nintendo, they just draw up what they want, design them, and produce them. Because Amiibo are Nintendo properties, though, Yacht Club had many more hoops to jump through.

 

[Aetheri]

I know they said they were working on it for a year. I'm just saying, but it could've just as easily meant "we've been working on trying to secure it." Nintendo Amiibo, for example, do not take a full year to make. For Yacht Club, they probably drew up plans first, consulted Nintendo about the possibility and had to convince them to let them make the Amiibo, then they worked out details on who would produce it and publish it, finalized the design for the Amiibo, figured out how it would work in game, and finally put it into full production.


For Nintendo, they just draw up what they want, design them, and produce them. Because Amiibo are Nintendo properties, though, Yacht Club had many more hoops to jump through.

That statement in and of itself is pretty subjective to begin with...They're most likely not going to go into specifics as to what they were actually doing with the amiibo, from plans to proposal to production...not to mention whatever video game content it adds to whichever games that it is to be compatible with...

 

[Kenith]

I know they said they were working on it for a year. I'm just saying, but it could've just as easily meant "we've been working on trying to secure it." Nintendo Amiibo, for example, do not take a full year to make. For Yacht Club, they probably drew up plans first, consulted Nintendo about the possibility and had to convince them to let them make the Amiibo, then they worked out details on who would produce it and publish it, finalized the design for the Amiibo, figured out how it would work in game, and finally put it into full production.


For Nintendo, they just draw up what they want, design them, and produce them. Because Amiibo are Nintendo properties, though, Yacht Club had many more hoops to jump through.

Uh, what different does it make?
Shovel Knight's amiibo has clearly been being worked on behind the scenes for a long time now, and now he has it, and that is HUGE news.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Uh, what different does it make?
Shovel Knight's amiibo has clearly been being worked on behind the scenes for a long time now, and now he has it, and that is HUGE news.

Not much I guess. It definitely is pretty big news. Considering how this event played out, I'm really expecting news we'd normally hear about in a Direct at PAX Prime. This Indies@Night event really felt like news that would've normally been in a Direct.

So the likes of Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash news, Animal Crossing: Amiibo Party, Hyrule Warriors Legends, etc. I think we could see trailers for some of these released. Maybe a slim chance of a Zelda trailer or another new game announcement?

 

[Kenith]

I really just want a Direct. I feel like Nintendo has some 'splainin' to do.

 

[Aetheri]

Not much I guess. It definitely is pretty big news. Considering how this event played out, I'm really expecting news we'd normally hear about in a Direct at PAX Prime. This Indies@Night event really felt like news that would've normally been in a Direct.

So the likes of Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash news, Animal Crossing: Amiibo Party, Hyrule Warriors Legends, etc. I think we could see trailers for some of these released. Maybe a slim chance of a Zelda trailer or another new game announcement?

We are definitely overdue for something regarding Zelda Wii U...we literally haven't heard a word since they announced that they were delaying it...and that was back in friggin March...

 

[Kenith]

I had a dream that we saw a new trailer for Zelda Wii U and they revealed Ghirahim as the villain.
Hopefully I'm a prophet.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I really just want a Direct. I feel like Nintendo has some 'splainin' to do.

At this point I think we're getting info at PAX Prime; it just won't be in a Direct, though.

 

[Bhojj]

So...there's a server maintenance on the 31st.

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/network/en_na/network_status_interim.jsp

It is during the same hours that the last DLC patch. Apparently, non DLC maintenances have been scheduled differently than the DLC ones.

It's just the day before The Phantom Pain so Snake confirmed.

Here's hoping for more overall buffs and another single frame nerf to rolls.

 

[Ultra*HappyCharge]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this but I guess I have to try. So I bought Ryu recently and there's this enough money to buy one of the other two DLC characters. Now who should I get: Roy or Lucas? TIA ^_^

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this but I guess I have to try. So I bought Ryu recently and there's this enough money to buy one of the other two DLC characters. Now who should I get: Roy or Lucas? TIA ^_^

Do you prefer Ness or Marth? If you prefer Ness, buy Lucas. If you prefer Marth, buy Roy.

And if you don't know which one you prefer, buy Roy.

 

[Logo12]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this but I guess I have to try. So I bought Ryu recently and there's this enough money to buy one of the other two DLC characters. Now who should I get: Roy or Lucas? TIA ^_^

You always have the option to buy Mii costumes wait until there's some other characters available, or until you have money to buy both.

But if otherwise, the above

except replace Roy with Lucas

 

[Ultra*HappyCharge]

Do you prefer Ness or Marth? If you prefer Ness, buy Lucas. If you prefer Marth, buy Roy.

And if you don't know which one you prefer, buy Roy.

I was kinda leaning on Roy but is Lucas bad or something? I heard his aerials are good especially I'm more of a air person in the game. If not, its Roy then.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I was kinda leaning on Roy but is Lucas bad or something? I heard his aerials are good especially I'm more of a air person in the game. If not, its Roy then.

I don't play Lucas often (because I'll never learn to use his Up B, lol) so I don't really know. But almost everyone seemed to prefer Roy over Lucas and Ryu when they were released.