Cut Veterans: Who do you think WON'T make it?

[TumblrFamous]

In response to Toon Link: he was never deconfirmed because of the Spirit Tracks stage. You all heard Sakurai in that interview: they haven't made any cuts so far. While it is early in development, they are trying to include Toon Link. Don't get me wrong, he's probably low priority due to other reasons, but he is intended to be in the game. My two cents, but most people will most likely disregard that.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well I do agree that besides another child Link. Impa and Tingle are the biggest contenders as another Zelda rep. Especially ones who don't rely on another child Link being there.

And yes, cuts can very likely happen, I won't deny that. But according to Sakurai it will most likely be due to time constraints as he "doesn't have the time" to bring everyone back and how he showed a dislike for cuts. We will just have to wait and see.

The only thing I disagree about is the use of a stage to determine if a character is 100% cut or not, especially when that stage doesn't even feature the character himself. I am a little concerned about Toon Link yes but for other reasons. And that is the chance that he could be replaced by another child Link or that he misses out due to time getting the best of him this time around as he's most likely at the back of the priority list again as both Young Link and Toon Link were during the Melee and Brawl days.

But since he was one of Japans most wanted characters and he's apparently still popular there with the fear that he could be cut due to his similarities with Link. (according to Chronobound) Sakurai might just want to keep him just for them.

 

[Arcadenik]

Who do I think might be in danger of not returning in SSB4?

Dr. Mario
Falco
Ice Climbers
Ike
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Lucas
Pichu
Pokémon Trainer Red
Roy
Sheik
Snake
Toon Link
Young Link

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I think people are reading too much into that interview. When Sakurai was talking about not having cut characters it was in association with the 3DS limitations. From what I read it stated that based on the roster that had already been decided for the game, no character had been cut yet due to 3DS issues.

As for characters who are in danger I'd have to say Tink, Lucas, All non pikachu pokemon chars (only one will likely go though), Snake, Ike, Falco and Wolf (same as poke chars). As far as the likelihood of being cut, who knows. However I don't see that many characters getting cut this time around. And finally no one will be cut for being a clone, being a clone in smash means nothing in terms of relevancy.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Wow, no one seems to have a problem with Snake going when he has absolutely no reason to.

Anyway, I'm thinking that Toon Link and Lucario are goners for sure. Ike and Lucas could be axed, but they have more staying power than the other two.

inb4: "Toon Link is staying because it's ST Link"

Why would they stick Toon Link in a stage AND make him a playable character? That's just dumb.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Sheik replacing Impa. Now that Toon Link's practically deconfirmed, Impa's the only good choice left for a Zelda character. And being a Sheikah, she would have to take Sheik's old moveset.

Could you explain why Lucario would be a goner?

 

[RODO]

At this point I've come to the conclusion that Toon Link, Wolf, Lucas, Snake, Lucario, ROB are gone

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Why do people want Lucario gone? I really can't see that happening

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

This is a topic I'm going to have trouble taking seriously. However, I'll participate. Sakurai has come out and said he'll be adding characters one at a time. That being said, there are some characters he may not add. There are five characters that I consider the "at risk" characters. These characters include Toon Link, Lucario, Ike, Snake, and Sonic. I think Lucas could go, too, but I just don't find it likely. Anyhow, here are is reasoning:

Toon Link: His inclusion in the Spirit Train stage is a massive implication that he'll be leaving, but that's a different incarnation, so there's still a chance he'll return. People have also been complaining about how he's a clone of Link.

Lucario: A 4th generation veteren shouldn't take priority over other more popular and important characters. Mewtwo would be a perfect example of one of these characters.

Ike: Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance aren't very recent anymore, and we may not see three Fire Emblem representatives. Awakening's success is too large to ignore in Smash, so FE's representation should change in some form.

Snake: Third Parties may be exclusive to the installment they appeared in.

Sonic: Third Parties may be exclusive to the installment they appeared in.

I'll include one for Lucas as well:

Lucas: Mother 3 isn't recent anymore, and people complain that Mother doesn't deserve two reps and that Lucas is a clone of Ness.

What keeps Lucas out of my "at risk" list is that we haven't seen a Mother game since 3 (meaning he won't be replaced by a newer protagonist) and he plays completely differently from Ness. Each special is the same move (outside of PK Freeze), but they are used differently (outside of PSI Magnet). Lucas could also easily be de-cloned if necessary.

Those are my thoughts! I appreciate feedback as long as it's respectful. Thanks for reading!

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Phooey. My computer lagged and my thing posted twice. :/

 

[Fatmanonice]

Here's an analysis I did the other day:

I remember shortly after Brawl came out a number of people were debating what determined whether a character was "safe" or not. Here are a few things people speculated:

1. Characters that have appeared in more than one Smash game have more prevalence than those that have just appeared in one. (One + for every game they are in.)

2. Characters who appear in the starting roster at some point in time have more prevalence than unlockable characters.

3. Current main characters (as in the star of the latest game of their respective franchise) have prevalence over side characters and past game stars.

4. Characters with unique movesets have prevalence over clones and semiclones.

5. Characters with more modern relevance have prevalence over older characters.

6. First/second party characters have prevalence over third party characters.

So, if we were to divide up the current cast into tiers into how likely they are to stick around based on these standards, it would look something like this:

God Tier:



The original 8. All are the stars in their respective franchises, all have unique movesets, and all have been starters in every single game so far.If any of them were cut, the universe would probably implode on itself.

Individual Breakdown:

1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 8 +, 0 - = 8


Top Tier:



The original 4 unlockables plus the Ice Climbers and the two unlockable franchise stars in Melee. Aside from Luigi, all have unique movesets, all are the leading characters in their respective franchises, and all have been in at least two games. It should also be noted that Ness and Captain Falcon were both starters in Melee, theoretically increasing their "job security."Jigglypuff's relevance is iffy but the other factors are argued to help her out a lot. It should be noted that of the new additions to Melee's starting roster, the Ice Climbers were the only ones that represented a new franchise. Ice Climbers, Marth, and Game and Watch are ranked above people like Bowser and Peach simply because they are the stars of their respective franchises. The chances of any of these characters leaving is pretty small.

Individual Breakdown:

1. +++ 2. - 3. + 4. - 5. + 6. + = 6 +, 2 - = 4
1. +++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. - 6. + = 7+, 1 - = 6
1. +++ 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 7+, 1 - = 5
1. +++ 2. - 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 5+, 3 - = 2
1. ++ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. - 6. + = 6+, 1 - = 5
1. ++ 2. - 3. + 4. + 5. - 6. + = 5 +, 2 - = 3
1. ++ 2. - 3. + 4. + 5. - 6. + = 5 +, 2 - = 3

High Tier:



Melee's new starting roster additions as well some of the Melee unlockables who "survived" the cuts. All are side characters but still important to their franchises with several of them being playable in canon appearances.All have been in at least two games and more than half of them have unique movesets. These characters have been established as staples in Smash but not as much as the original cast. Some of these characters are only a little iffy but they are probably near the bottom of the list when it comes to characters that are being considered to be cut. If anything, they're more likely to be tweaked then get the boot.

Individual Breakdown:

1. ++ 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6 +, -1 =5
1. ++ 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6 +, -1 =5
1. ++ 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6 +, -1 = 5
1. ++ 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 5 +, - 2 = 3
1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. + 6. + = 4+, - 3 = 1
1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. + 6. + = 4+, - 3 = 1
1. ++ 2. - 3. + 4. - 5. + 6. + = 5+, -2 = 3


Mid Tier:



Most of Brawl's new starting roster plus ROB. Roughly half of them are franchise stars and all of them have been playable in canon games in their respective franchise. All are still very relevant to their respective franchises and all have unique movesets. ROB is a special case largely because he was the only unlockable character in Brawl representing a new first party franchise to Smash. These characters are not yet staples of Smash Bros but it's widely agreed that they all have a long history ahead of them.


Individual Breakdown:

1.+ 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6 +, 0 - = 6
1. + 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. + 6. + = 5 +, 1 - = 4
1. + 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6 +, 0 - = 6
1. + 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6+, 0 - = 6
1. + 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6+, 0 - = 6
1. + 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. + 6. + = 5+, 1 - = 4
1. + 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. + = 6+, 0 - = 6
1. + 2. + 3. + 4. + 5. - 6. + = 5+, 1 - = 4


Low Tier:



The remaining newcomers in Brawl's starting roster. All are franchise stars but their relevance is argued to be questionable (especially Ike). PT and Ike have unique movesets while Lucas is the only semi-clone who has ever made it to the starting roster of a Smash game, something questionably significant but could ultimately save his skin. PT and Ike are in danger of being replaced by newer characters in their respective franchises and many people argue that Ike will become the new "Roy" once SSB4 actually comes out. These characters are on the chopping block but have enough going for them to not make them at the top of the list.

Individual Breakdown:

1. + 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 4 +, 2 - = 2
1. + 2. + 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 4 +, 2 - = 2
1. + 2. + 3. + 4. - 5. - 6. + = 4 +, 2 - = 2

Bottom Tier:



The remaining new unlockable characters in Brawl including the two third party "guests." Despite Sonic's overwhelming popularity, modern relevance, and unique moveset, his inclusion is entirely dependent on SEGA's cooperation. If SEGA says no or Nintendo doesn't bother to contact them, that's the end of it. Snake's the same way except with Konami. Lucario's relevance is as hotly debated as PT and Ike but, unlike them, he was unlockable and he's a side character in his respective franchise. Wolf is still important to the Star Fox franchise but he's plagued with a number of things. He was Brawl's only unlockable new semi-clone and still a supporting character in his respective franchise. If there are any cuts made in SSB4, there is no doubt that at least one of these guys will be one of them.

Individual Breakdown:

1. + 2. - 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 3 +, 3 - = 0
1. + 2. - 3. + 4. + 5. - 6. - = 3 +, 3- = 0
1. + 2. - 3. + 4. + 5. + 6. - = 4+, 2 - = 2
1. + 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. + 6. + = 3 +, 3-= 0

Final Breakdown:

Going off of the 6 basic standards highlighted at the very top, the three games have been broken down by how likely each character is to be cut. The higher the number, the least likely they are to be cut. Because of each game having different caps, characters who have appeared in more games have prevalence over characters who have only appeared in one. For example, Jigglypuff is the most likely to be cut of the original cast based on this model but is safer than characters like Lucas because she has appeared in all three games as opposed to his one.

Original Smash Bros Fighters

= 8/8
= 6/8
= 5/8
= 4/8
= 2/8

Melee Fighters:

= 5/7 (Ice Climbers are top of Melee tier list for being franchise star and current rep)
= 3/7 (Marth and Game and Watch are at the top of the unlockable Melee "tier list")
= 1/7

Brawl Fighters:

= 6/6
= 4/6
= 2/6 (Keep in mind that Sonic is still third party and thus at the top of the bottom).
= 0/6

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Lucario: A 4th generation veteren shouldn't take priority over other more popular and important characters. Mewtwo would be a perfect example of one of these characters.

Stop posting. That's a terrible reason to remove Lucario. If anything, I can see Mewtwo return and Lucario as well.

 

[Swift Fox]

Fatmanonice, I like the analysis you made but I think you could try analyze again with more conditions and effecfiveness? I can see some characters getting too low/high scores...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice, I like the analysis you made but I think you could try analyze again with more conditions and effecfiveness? I can see some characters getting too low/high scores...

6 is enough and based on the working model I think it's fairly accurate. Also, it should be noted that the characters are divided by the three games that they are in and this highlights how likely they are to be cut based on their entrance into the franchise. For example, Ganondorf and Falco's low numbers in comparison to the rest of the Melee cast are accurate if we pretend that nobody was cut from Melee to Brawl:

1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. + 5. - 6. + = 4+, 3 - = 1/7
1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. - 6. + = 3 +, 4 - = -1/7
1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. - 6. + = 3 +, 4 - = -1/7
1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. - 6. + = 3 +, 4 - = -1/7
1. ++ 2. - 3. - 4. - 5. - 6. + = 3 +, 4 - = -1/7


Clones/semiclones are naturally put at a disadvantage because they're usually side/supporting characters and, with the four cut Melee clones, their relevance is iffy with the next installment. As you can see here, Mewtwo had the same score as Falco and Ganondorf based on this model which highlights that all were in danger of being cut but Mewtwo ultimately lost out probably because of his modern relevance.

Again, this is speculation/conjecture so don't take it too seriously if you don't agree with it.

 

[RavenKingSage]

Look, just give me a very good reason why it's so impossible for Spirit Tracks Link and Wind Waker Link to coexist if he really confirms him to be 100% cut. Especially when you consider the fact that 1. They are two completely different people and 2. They have different appearances and 3. We had stuff like this happen before.

Gosh I told myself and ThatWasPeachy not to bother with these stupid arguments anymore since they are getting us nowhere yet here I am bothering with them again...

Those are pretty good points, but even without the stage, Toon Link has plenty of reasons to be axed. I'd go into detail about that except I don't feel like it and you are clearly bothered.

Sorry if I acted like a douche by the way. I wasn't exactly in a sunny mood this morning. :/

Okay, so you've convinced me that Toon Link isn't 100% gone. I should relay this to some guys on YouTube...

 

[Autumn ♫]

Those are pretty good points, but even without the stage, Toon Link has plenty of reasons to be axed. I'd go into detail about that except I don't feel like it and you are clearly bothered.

Sorry if I acted like a douche by the way. I wasn't exactly in a sunny mood this morning. :/

Okay, so you've convinced me that Toon Link isn't 100% gone. I should relay this to some guys on YouTube...

Hey, I've always had him gone so don't try to bring him back with me.

 

[Curious Villager]

Those are pretty good points, but even without the stage, Toon Link has plenty of reasons to be axed. I'd go into detail about that except I don't feel like it and you are clearly bothered.

Sorry if I acted like a douche by the way. I wasn't exactly in a sunny mood this morning. :/

Okay, so you've convinced me that Toon Link isn't 100% gone. I should relay this to some guys on YouTube...

Sakurai said at some point in an interview that a child Link is important to him. Toon Link was also one of Japans most wanted characters according to Chronobound. So I'd say the main reason's of why Toon Link could get axed is because he's a low priority character so he will likely be one of the last characters to be included into the game so time constraints in other words and that he could potentially get replaced by another child Link. I'd personally say those are the most realistic reasons of why he could get cut. But that's just my opinion really.

It's okay, sorry if I sounded a bit rude as well. I'm just getting a bit tired of people bringing up this same reason all the time that is just way too vague and doesn't confirm or deconfirm anything in my opinion.

Yes there is a chance Toon Link can get cut. I just don't think that this is one of the reasons why he would get cut though.

But yeah, lets just leave this discussion be. It's gotten longer than It was intended to be.

 

[Xigger]

What a wonderful post to read, and of course it was by fatmanonice. Nice analysis. Ben111 here by the way.

Very good speculation on the roster placement, yet it only scratches the surface of roster selection. Cases like Falcon and Ness switching between starter and unlockable brings to mind the system of starter vs unlockable status that changes for each game. Melee's unlockables featured mostly clones and Brawl mostly veterans.

This theory does reflect roster selection a bit, yes. But placing Ganondorf next to Falco and under Marth is a clear example to show that this theory isn't as accurate as it could be. At least, I believe Ganondorf is more expected than Marth at this point.


Just to throw in some more relevant veteran considerations: Ice Climbers is receiving a lot of negative feedback here, yet they're the only unconfirmed character that Sakurai has admitted to be implementing into the game. Can you honestly expect Ice Climbers to be "cut" rather than "didn't make it" at this point?

 

[Starbound]

Why would they stick Toon Link in a stage AND make him a playable character? That's just dumb.

We've seen the Spirit Tracks stage, and we've also been told that no characters have been cut yet.

 

[RavenKingSage]

Hey, I've always had him gone so don't try to bring him back with me.

Oh no, I wasn't trying to say that I'm convinced that Toon Link should stay. I wouldn't go back and change my roster after this discussion. Besides, we speak of predictions here. That's why I didn't bring up things like how I just personally do not see the point of a second Link.

As for your request about me justifying my claim that Lucario's almost a certain cut. Basically, a fourth gen Pokémon has no priority over choices who are more popular, from more recent generations, and/or are being featured in movies.

 

[RavenKingSage]

Stop posting. That's a terrible reason to remove Lucario. If anything, I can see Mewtwo return and Lucario as well.

Yes, because anyone who posts anything you disagree with has to stop posting. -_- And his short explanation was perfectly valid. There are other Pokémon more popular and/or important than Lucario. Popularity and importance are, for the most part, big factors in determining who makes it into the roster (with surprise characters like WFT and retro reps like Ice Climbers being some exceptions).

 

[Xigger]

Hmmm... Sakurai still sees the importance of two Links, and seeing as how young/toon/non-adult Link are all nearly the same, I wouldn't argue much over TOON Link, as much as any second Link. In much likelihood, any second Link has a good chance.

As for Lucario, his being cut has two factors: Pokemon company. They could say no if they have a good reason, say they feel Lucario no longer needs to be popular and they feel he needs to fade out to give the new Pokemon that popularity. Otherwise, it's all fair game in Sora LTD's eyes. THAT is the sort of relevance being talked about: not our personal opinions, but theirs.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Based on this model, Ganondorf is below Marth simply because Marth is a star (AKA leading and playable) character and has an original moveset. Overall, I would agree that Ganondorf is much more important than Marth in the grand scheme of Nintendo but, based on past patterns, clones/semiclones are significantly more likely to get the axe when we consider how four of the five cut characters from Melee to Brawl fell in this category. Uniqueness and modern relevance seem to be the two key deciding factors when it comes to deciding where the axe should land.

Last week it was noted that nobody had been cut yet and it implied that they are trying their hardest to salvage as many characters as they can given their deadline. Ice Climbers, Olimar, and Pokemon Trainer seem to be creating the most problems from a technical standpoint because they each use multiple character files at the same time while on screen (ICs have Nana and Popo, Olimar have the captain and the individual AI of the Pikmin, and the PT has the Pokemon and the trainer that runs around in the background) and, for whatever reason, the 3DS is having issues dealing with this. Due to the ICs and Olimar being the lone reps of their respective franchises, I do believe they will be tweaked rather than outright cut in order to make them work. As I noted in my model, I think the ICs also have priority simply because they've been a part of Smash for 12 years now and I think he's going to do everything he can to make sure they stay in.

 

[RavenKingSage]

@Fatmanonice:

Location: Somewhere... overthinking something.

100% agree on that statement from the sidebar.

I admire those who like to give hard analysis the way you just did, but I think that in your case, it resulted in some characters being too high and others too low.

While the third party characters will instantly vanish if their parent companies say no, you have to ask yourself: Why would they? Sega and Konami are doing well with Nintendo, and you have Lost World in the works as a Nintendo exclusive. And there was the Snake Eater remake on the 3DS.

I also think that in most cases, clonehood =/= chopping block. I'm referring to cases like Falco, Wolf, and Lucas where the moveset can be very unique from the character they were cloned after. It would be like saying Mewtwo has less of a chance because he was terrible in Melee. Toon Link would be an exception to what I'm referring to because you can't accurately declone him. What I mean by that is, Toon Link can have WW-exclusive items, but those aren't the signature items and attacks of Link. You lose something if Toon Link gets a moveset out of the Deku Leaf and Wind Waker instead of the Bow, Bombs, Boomerang and Spin Attack.

I also think you have Pokémon Trainer a bit too low. I would argue that he is relevant. If anything, I would predict that he gets axed through technical issues.

I know you said not to take it seriously if anybody disagrees, but I wanted to give you my feedback anyway.

 

[Xigger]

It's not that the theory is wrong, it's that this theory is looking from one viewpoint. Considering all viewpoints that go into selection, of course it isn't the final product. But it isn't wrong. It just doesn't consider every other detail and viewpoint together.

Ganondorf has more Nintendo importance but less franchise stardom than Olimar and Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers, but they face other issues that has more of the final decision, rather than the starting decision, to be included in the first place.

When you consider that final viewpoint, Ganondorf is better off. But in the ground this theory covers, he doesn't.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Two words: Solid Snake *raised flame shield*

 

[FalKoopa]

I don't think Pokémon trainer has as many technical issues as Olimar or ICs.

He's only as complex as Zelda/Sheik.

 

[Autumn ♫]

As for your request about me justifying my claim that Lucario's almost a certain cut. Basically, a fourth gen Pokémon has no priority over choices who are more popular, from more recent generations, and/or are being featured in movies.

The thing about Lucario is that he is still a very popular character that is still heavily promoted being like a 2nd Pikachu.

 

[Xigger]

I don't think Pokémon trainer has as many technical issues as Olimar or ICs.

He's only as complex as Zelda/Sheik.

A mix of both. Pokemon Trainer switches out Pokemon, but the Trainer is actually a second fighter at all times, despite being a cosmetic appearance. Only Ice Climbers was mentioned to have problems, but PT and Olimar may very well suffer similar issues.

I should probably put tidbits like these in the first post, it's been brought up way too many times...

 

[RavenKingSage]

I don't think Pokémon trainer hasas many technical issues as Olimar or ICs.

He's only as complex as Zelda/Sheik.

There are three playable Pokémon and the Trainer runs around in the background. I would say that's more of a technical problem than Olimar, actually.

The thing about Lucario is that he is still a very popular character that is still heavily promoted being like a 2nd Pikachu.

He's popular, yes, but in the event we only get four Pokémon characters (considering that the focus seems to be on miscellaneous and new franchises this time around, I find that very likely), Lucario will not beat out Mewtwo or the Pokémon Trainer (unless he has the aforementioned tech difficulties).

 

[Starbound]

Pokemon Trainer, strangely, has his own file in Brawl's data, which contains his own animations.

I think Nana does too. The Pikmin don't. They have their animations in Olimar's file.

 

[FalKoopa]

Hm, I see. The Pokémon Trainer does have his own files.

Maybe in the 3DS version, they'll make the trainer stationary in the background with animations only when he swiches pokémon.

 

[Xigger]

Pokemon Trainer, strangely, has his own file in Brawl's data, which contains his own animations.

I think Nana does too. The Pikmin don't. They have their animations in Olimar's file.

Nana shares the same files, give for her model, but runs it as a double. So Popo times two, minus one controller.

Hm, I see. The Pokémon Trainer does have his own files.

Maybe in the 3DS version, they'll make the trainer stationary in the background with animations only when he swiches pokémon.

You could say he stands still rather than running around. But literally not moving at all is not an option. It would be efficient to rework the trainer as an item, although items generally do not react to player actions. That is the challenge given at hand.

 

[Autumn ♫]

He's popular, yes, but in the event we only get four Pokémon characters (considering that the focus seems to be on miscellaneous and new franchises this time around, I find that very likely), Lucario will not beat out Mewtwo or the Pokémon Trainer (unless he has the aforementioned tech difficulties).

If we get 4 then, yes, Lucario will most likely get cut, but if there is 5 then Lucario probably won't.

 

[Z1GMA]

Lucas . . . .

 

[FalKoopa]

Lucas . . . .

Doubtful. He got in due to Japanese popularity after all.

 

[Z1GMA]

Doubtful. He got in due to Japanese popularity after all.

True.
But it is a feeling I have.

 

[Xigger]

What insightful opinions.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I disagree heavily with that list ranking Diddy lower than Sheik and Ice Climbers.

 

[FalKoopa]

I disagree heavily with that list ranking Diddy lower than Sheik and Ice Climbers.

Did you even read the last bit?
ICs have 5/7, Sheik has 3/7 and Diddy Kong has 6/6.

Look at the numbers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That changes quite a bit...

Marth should be 6/7 I think though.