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Cut Veterans: Who do you think WON'T make it?

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Mr.Seven

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:rob: I expect ROB to be cut from the roster. I thought he was a waste of a character space, as he had really no reason to be there. He was a flop of an accessory in real life.

:wolf: To me, I feel as though Wolf was a one-and-done character. He played literally no role in the Subspace Emissary and was yet another Star Fox character with the same specials. I expect him to be cut, though, I want to see him return with an overhauled fighting style. There's plenty from the Star Fox universe to take from.

:squirtle::ivysaur::mewtwopm::pichumelee::pt: Kanto has enough representation with Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Charizard. There's 568 Pokemon outside of Kanto that would be much more interesting picks than just Kanto. As for Pichu... The hell was Sakurai smoking when he added Pichu!?

:younglinkmelee: got replaced by this guy -> :4tlink:

:roypm: Roy really isn't all that relevant to Fire Emblem anymore save for an optional DLC chapter for Awakening. (You could argue that the DLC chapters are nothing more than fanservice anyway.) Besides, he was just a clone of Marth with the added addition of fire, so that hurts his chances even more.

:snake: Don't expect him to return to Smash, as he was just the product of Kojima asking to have Snake in Brawl. Also add to the fact that Kojima himself has no idea of Snake's fate in Smash, it's safe to assume that he will not return.

:lucas: I'm not too sure about Lucas. A part of me is saying that he will be cut, but I'm split on that.
 

Your Hero

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After today's Ike reveal, I'm going to guess only Lukas, Falco and potentially Snake are getting cut. Reason being Lukas and Falco's b moves are so similar to Ness and Fox's b moves that they might just get migrated as custom moves (which Sakurai announced during the nintendo direct I believe). Wolf sort of falls under the same category, however he is heavier, has a more unique moveset than Falco comparing both to Fox, and is the villain of the Starfox series. Falco has seniority, and I think he would make it over Wolf if it weren't for the ability to customize attacks.

Snake I think might return. I kept hearing people say he wouldn't, but unless if there are legal reasons I don't see why they wouldn't bring him back. I think ROB is more likely to return though, and I think he will return due to Ike/Lucario coming back.

If we're including melee characters in this, then the only character I could see (and hope) come back from the dead is Mewtwo. The rest (including Roy) are done, IMO.
 

Ridley_Prime

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The arguments against Wolf are getting pretty atrocious here.

"He's a one-off character and done"

Based on what? It's silly too to use the SSE against Wolf when Toon Link didn't have a role in it either.

After Ike I would think there'd be less doubt for guys like him.
 

StaffofSmashing

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:rob: Rob was a nice retro addition, but he's a one trick pony. I guess we could say that he's shut down from the roster..?

:squirtle::ivysaur: Not happening. Charizard is enough, put them as trophies.

:snake: If someone begs someone to put something in something else, then he's gone in the next game. Sure we have a dude voicing Raiden for this game apparently, but Raiden is not Snake.

:wolf: Wolf is not coming back at all. The game got delayed because of him, and unlike Sonic he wasn't demanded that much at all.

:ganondorf: Part of me doesn't want do do this, but the other part of me thinks that Ghiraham may replace him. Sorry

:lucas: No. No. No.
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

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:snake: If someone begs someone to put something in something else, then he's gone in the next game. Sure we have a dude voicing Raiden for this game apparently, but Raiden is not Snake.
Literally everything said there was wrong. People tend to blow the translation of "begging" out of proportion, and not only that but in no way does it mean it was a one time thing because you deem it to be. Raiden also isnt being voiced in this game, that voice actor messed up his quote and has since gone back and retracted it.
 

StaffofSmashing

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Literally everything said there was wrong. People tend to blow the translation of "begging" out of proportion, and not only that but in no way does it mean it was a one time thing because you deem it to be. Raiden also isnt being voiced in this game, that voice actor messed up his quote and has since gone back and retracted it.
Oh, sorry, didn't catch up on the news.
 

True Blue Warrior

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The only characters with a plausible chance of getting cut are arguable Wolf, Lucas, Snake, Squirtle and Ivysaur. ROB is not likely at all due to his historical importance.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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By that logic, Greninja is getting cut from the next game because of his not-so historical importance.
Assuming it doesn't start to pick up a more Lucario-like role over time, anyway.

Also, I really don't get why a major of the "probable cuts" here essentially comes down to "characters I'm not a fan of". Lucas for example literally has no reason to be cut on part of being planned since Melee and being an early addition in Brawl.
 

True Blue Warrior

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By that logic, Greninja is getting cut from the next game because of his not-so historical importance.
Actually, he could get cut due to lack of recent prominence by the time of the next Smash game if he doesn't continue to get roles by being a low-priority character. You know, like Mewtwo was.:p

Also, I really don't get why a major of the "probable cuts" here essentially comes down to "characters I'm not a fan of". Lucas for example literally has no reason to be cut on part of being planned since Melee and being an early addition in Brawl.
This is made clear by all the people who think ROB is likely to be cut. Just like the way Mr. G&W was "likely" to be cut in Brawl. Guess some people don't learn from history.:rolleyes:
 
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StaffofSmashing

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Assuming it doesn't start to pick up a more Lucario-like role over time, anyway.

Also, I really don't get why a major of the "probable cuts" here essentially comes down to "characters I'm not a fan of". Lucas for example literally has no reason to be cut on part of being planned since Melee and being an early addition in Brawl.
Localization of Mother 3 is a problem.
 

Spinosaurus

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Literally everything said there was wrong. People tend to blow the translation of "begging" out of proportion, and not only that but in no way does it mean it was a one time thing because you deem it to be. Raiden also isnt being voiced in this game, that voice actor messed up his quote and has since gone back and retracted it.
Also the whole begging thing doesn't hold water when Kojima asked for Snake since Melee, but it was too late at that time.
 

Banjodorf

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what do you mean exactly? Two to three being cut? Or past ones not making it back again?
I think they mean something like "JIgglypuff's been in 3 games, what if he/she/it is cut"? or "Falco was in Melee and Brawl, what if he's cut?"

To answer that specific question, with the exception of Jigglypuff who seemed to be low priority in Brawl, I don't see it happening.
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

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A vet who's been in Smash Bros for more than once.
Oh ok, for a second i thought you meant the likes of roy and such, and that they would be gone for two games in this case. I was gonna say they wouldnt be cut if they were never back lol, but now i know what you meant.
 
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Swift Fox

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I think they mean something like "JIgglypuff's been in 3 games, what if he/she/it is cut"? or "Falco was in Melee and Brawl, what if he's cut?"

To answer that specific question, with the exception of Jigglypuff who seemed to be low priority in Brawl, I don't see it happening.
What about Forbidden 7, they almost made it to Brawl but ended up scrapped due to time constraints.

I suppose Jigglypuff was prioritized over Mewtwo for being one of O12 so that may stay true for SSB4. I could see that anyone who's been in Brawl or even Melee but not in O12 are still in danger.

64 base 9/12 confirmed (75%), 0 brawl cut, 0 ssb4 cut
Melee base 5/9 confirmed (55.55%), 5 brawl cut, 0 ssb4 cut
Brawl base 10/16 confirmed (62.5%), 2 likely ssb4 cut
--
Live: 24/37 confirmed (64.86% average)

Notice 64 and Brawl have higher % of confirmations than Melee?

Seems like there will be two-time vet cut and have hardly any Brawl vets getting cut other than two likely already cuts (Squirtle and Ivysaur) because Sonic, Lucario, Ike, and Toon Link (four unlikeliest vets confirmed) proved that. Melee vets on the other hand... there isn't any unlikely veterans confirmed yet (bowser, peach, marth, zelda, sheik aren't that unlikely veterans).

:falcon::jigglypuff::ness2: all should be in for the sake of O12

:ganondorf::popo::gw::falco: one of them maybe not make it in? :pichumelee::mewtwomelee::roymelee::drmario::younglinkmelee: few maybe return.

:warioc::lucas::metaknight::rob::snake::wolf: one of them maybe not make it in? :ivysaur::squirtle: likely not making it in.

Further explanation of why I posted this in prev page
Look like I am the only one who predicted Ike for next & random reveal...

My next prediction? No character reveals until E3 and you will not see :lucas::ness2::jigglypuff::falco::snake::ivysaur::squirtle::younglinkmelee::mewtwomelee::drmario::roymelee::pichumelee: at E3. There are 8 remaining veterans I can't predict if will be in E3 or not...

Just to see if my prediction is really working. :smirk:
The more likely veterans I mentioned above isn't necessarily become hidden characters but they were for game releases and anniversaries. See:
June 19 - Pokemon Art Academy (JP) :jigglypuff:
July 27 - Mother 25th Anniversary:lucas:
August 14 - Hyrule Warriors (JP) :ganondorf: <- MAYBE?
August 27 - Mother 2 (EarthBound) 20th Anniversary (JP) :ness2:

It's true that I almost predicted Ike, however I must admit I have my doubts about it but, well, it turned out I'm right. See:
I could be easily wrong though but at least I'm pretty sure there'll be a random veteran this month. Hopefully still Ike if not for May 8.
For North America, Europe, and spin-off games at least...

The next game with Japanese release is Pokemon Art Academy (which is after Nintendo's Digital Event). I'm gonna expect random veteran reveal this month. :ike:... perhaps?
The reason I said I can't predict 8 veterans is because some might be seen on E3, others might be as part of post-release reveals.

Falco may be two-time veteran, but he is probably getting cut thanks to Fox & his customizable movesets. That's if he isn't seen in E3... (that's the whole point of my post in prev page)

Might want to check my theory about # of cuts and notice there are mainstream cuts in Mario Kart too. (shockingly, Diddy Kong is one of them)
 
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Spinosaurus

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There's nothing going against Snake though. Kojima's quote seems really playful and he's well know for messing with our minds like that.

He's 50/50, whether he gets in or not it all depends on Nintendo. If Snake isn't included, I doubt it'd be because Sakurai sat down and decided "you know what? WE DON'T NEED SNAKE."
 

Banjodorf

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"Because I don't think he belongs." Or some ****. Whatever the kids are saying these days.

I'm hesitant to label what Kojima said as trolling though. Either way, we'll know at E3.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Damn, lots of bad arguments for veteran cuts.

Falco getting cut because his B special is the "same" as Fox? Please. That is a poor reason to consider someone gone and besides he is a two times veteran now. Any chances of him not reappearing in future Smash games were lost when he returned for Brawl.

Also, Ganondorf. People who think that he may not return need to have a reality check. He is the Legend of Zelda's most recurrent Big Bad, one of the three holders of the triforce and (I can't believe I have to keep reminding others of this) a two times veteran as well. He'll back as surely as the Sun will rise tomorrow. INB4 Ghirahim will replace him; is it so hard to believe that they can coexist in the same game? I don't know about Ghirahim's chances but he'll never replace Ganondorf. That is for sure.

Veterans from the original and veterans who debuted in Melee and came for Brawl are certainly coming back.

People ought a look for more legit reasons for possible cuts instead of relying on crappy arguments like "I don't like this character, therefore I think it will/should be gone".
 

God Robert's Cousin

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People ought a look for more legit reasons for possible cuts instead of relying on crappy arguments like "I don't like this character, therefore I think it will/should be gone".
This, thank you so much. Literally, a majority of this thread involves half-assed reasons for cutting characters. Cuts aren't deliberately planned from the start--all of Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were planned to be in Brawl as well. Pichu was going to get a successor in the form of Plusle/Minun and Young Link was replaced by Toon Link outright. Nobody is planned to be cut. The only cuts that occur are ones that were placed as low priority and ones that contractually could not be achieved.

Snake, from the sound of things, is likely to be cut based on Kojima's statement that nobody has approached him for Snake yet. Being a 3rd-party, there's more for him to have to go through before joining the cast. He'd be cut because it isn't possible to get him in on time. This is a real-world technicality and a legitimate reason to think Snake won't be in SSB4.

Squirtle and Ivysaur, likewise, were part of a mechanic that was entirely theirs alongside Charizard. Yet here we are, having had announced that there will be no changing form characters. With Charizard confirmed alone, the best fate left for Squirtle and Ivysaur is for them to be very, very low priority veterans. Why are they low priority? They were a mere part of a character that seems to be functional without them. If given enough time, they might return, but they'd otherwise be cut on terms of being lowest priority. This is a time-based technicality and an actual reason to think they won't return in SSB4.

Now what has everyone else here been saying? Falco's cut because he's sort of a clone? Ganondorf because he was a bad character? Lucas because "he shares the same specials as Ness and I don't like him"? How the hell are these reasons? Petty things to say like those are disgusting when you consider that it's an incarnate of the "I don't like it so nobody else can" mindset. If your only reason to see a character be cut is based on that, you probably shouldn't speak about it in the first place.

We used to have things like Toon Link, Ike, and Lucario that had good arguments as well, but the fact that they are all confirmed makes any point of those moot. The only other half-decent arguments I've heard for other possible cut characters are Wolf and R.O.B.

Wolf, on part of having been very low priority in Brawl--literally the last added character. Some people have said it'd be because he's a clone of Fox... The same people have not pressed the A button while using Wolf, apparently. If he gets cut, it'd be on part of the same reasoning as Roy, Dr. Mario, Ivysaur, and Squirtle--for time-based reasons and having low priority to boot, not shallow reasons that stop at player-level surface. The same could potentially be said for Jigglypuff, the difference being that Jigglypuff has seniority and is easy to program.

R.O.B., under the same principle that an unpopular character will make for low priority. While this is exaggerated immensely with characters like Lucas and Jigglypuff, R.O.B. meets the near-same criteria as Mewtwo: an unpopular newcomer that is well-hidden until late in the game. R.O.B. will definitely be planned to return once again--it's merely a matter of whether or not R.O.B. will be regular or low priority. The people that argue he'll be low-priority rather than outright cut, good for you, you actually make sense.

Cuts are made from a developmental standpoint, folks. If you really want to say someone will be cut, for god's sake, make it a cognitive argument rather than just the usual "I don't like him" points I've been constantly seeing. It's wasting thread space otherwise.
 

Sahfarry

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Lucas, ROB (even if I mained him. I dont really care anymore. Ill find a new main), Snake, Pokemon Trainer (duh, but its a shame its not ivysaur in)

Im on the fence with Wolf. I want him in with a new moveset because hes the cool Star Fox villain with awesome lines. I just need him to be unique and shine (;D) Trust me, if he were never in Brawl, people would be like: "OMG PUT HIM IN SMASH 4 FOR VILLAINS".

I cant say Ike anymore. Whatever. Thought Chrom need some elbow room.
 

RomanceDawn

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:rob: I expect ROB to be cut from the roster. I thought he was a waste of a character space, as he had really no reason to be there. He was a flop of an accessory in real life.

:wolf: To me, I feel as though Wolf was a one-and-done character. He played literally no role in the Subspace Emissary and was yet another Star Fox character with the same specials. I expect him to be cut, though, I want to see him return with an overhauled fighting style. There's plenty from the Star Fox universe to take from.

:squirtle::ivysaur::mewtwopm::pichumelee::pt: Kanto has enough representation with Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Charizard. There's 568 Pokemon outside of Kanto that would be much more interesting picks than just Kanto. As for Pichu... The hell was Sakurai smoking when he added Pichu!?

:younglinkmelee: got replaced by this guy -> :4tlink:

:roypm: Roy really isn't all that relevant to Fire Emblem anymore save for an optional DLC chapter for Awakening. (You could argue that the DLC chapters are nothing more than fanservice anyway.) Besides, he was just a clone of Marth with the added addition of fire, so that hurts his chances even more.

:snake: Don't expect him to return to Smash, as he was just the product of Kojima asking to have Snake in Brawl. Also add to the fact that Kojima himself has no idea of Snake's fate in Smash, it's safe to assume that he will not return.

:lucas: I'm not too sure about Lucas. A part of me is saying that he will be cut, but I'm split on that.
You are a fiendish individual. At least I know who's comments to avoid from here on out.
 

KatKit

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Pokemon Trainer. He is literally the only character whose chances of returning seem improbable, since the transformation mechanic was removed outside of final smashes lol. Fortunately, he was not playable per se. But still, I'll miss that kid.

*sad There Will be Brawl Pokemon music playing at his funeral*
 

smashingDoug

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Pokemon Trainer. He is literally the only character whose chances of returning seem improbable, since the transformation mechanic was removed outside of final smashes lol. Fortunately, he was not playable per se. But still, I'll miss that kid.

*sad There Will be Brawl Pokemon music playing at his funeral*
he won't but it would be cool if he could sit on the side lines for charizard
 
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ShichibukaiJimbe

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he won't butt it would be cool if he could sit on the side lines for charizard
Can you imagine if each character had a "coach" who appeared alongside him in the victory screen? Doc LouIs for Little Mac, Trainer for Charizard, maybe Peppy for Fox, etc
 

smashingDoug

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Can you imagine if each character had a "coach" who appeared alongside him in the victory screen? Doc LouIs for Little Mac, Trainer for Charizard, maybe Peppy for Fox, etc
not every character but i could see doc louis red/trainer for little mac and charizard and maybe that fairy on link's taunt on the side lines or victory screen (or just for the fairy he would follow link around just for looks not impact on the fight) and they could say stuff like you did good kid or good job charizard
 
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