Cut Veterans: Who do you think WON'T make it?

[Capybara Gaming]

and?

i know it does if i can find where i read it i will send you a link

about rob not being a big video game character you can say that about half the roster

 

[pupNapoleon]

@ Capybara Gaming

What did that post contribute?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

@ Capybara Gaming

What did that post contribute?

I am correcting him on a mistake.

 

[smashingDoug]

I am correcting him on a mistake.

i know he is not a fighter but what about ho ho he fist appeared on the tv show and i want to know where it said they have to first appearance has to from a video game

 

[jigglover]

i know he is not a fighter but what about ho ho he fist appeared on the tv show and i want to know where it said they have to first appearance has to from a video game

You see, that's just being pedantic. While technically Ho-oh (please put the hyphen in - it took me a while to figure out what you were talking about...) first appeared in the TV show, the TV show was based on a game by Nintendo. The rule that Sakurai stated was that the characters can't be from a TV show which got turned into a game, because that character's roots lie in TV and not gaming.

I'm not sure that anyone really know where it came from. We all know that it came from Sakurai and that he said it in multiple interviews, but nobody can really search it up and find a catalogued version. However, it is just something which exists so you may as well accept that.

 

[smashingDoug]

i know he is not a fighter but what about ho ho /quote]

You see, that's just being pedantic. While technically Ho-oh (please put the hyphen in - it took me a while to figure out what you were talking about...) first appeared in the TV show, the TV show was based on a game by Nintendo. The rule that Sakurai stated was that the characters can't be from a TV show which got turned into a game, because that character's roots lie in TV and not gaming.

I'm not sure that anyone really know where it came from. We all know that it came from Sakurai and that he said it in multiple interviews, but nobody can really search it up and find a catalogued version. However, it is just something which exists so you may as well accept that.

and rob is not from a game or a tv show
but he did appeared in a game (mario kart ds what came out in 2005) before he appeared in smash bros ( and brawl came out in 2008)

 

[jigglover]

and rob is not from a game or a tv show
but he did appeared in a game (mario kart ds what came out in 2005) before he appeared in smash bros ( and brawl came out in 2008)

What?

 

[smashingDoug]

What?

his first appearance to the world was not in a game but an accessory to the nes/Famicom
but his first appearance in gaming what i know was in mario kart ds what came out in 2005 before brawl

 

[jigglover]

his first appearance to the world was not in a game but an accessory to the nes/Famicom
but his first appearance in gaming what i know was in mario kart ds what came out in 2005 before brawl

Yeah but I was just wondering what your point was. He first appeared as an accessory which pretty much saved video gaming as we know it, yes. He also didn't originate in a TV show, because as you rightfully pointed out he appeared in MK:DS as a playable character. It should also be noted that he has had many references in video games, particularly in the Kirby series and most noticeably in F-Zero. Kirby... yeah, Sakurai's series. That's pretty much why he's in brawl. So, what's your point?

 

[smashingDoug]

Yeah but I was just wondering what your point was. He first appeared as an accessory which pretty much saved video gaming as we know it, yes. He also didn't originate in a TV show, because as you rightfully pointed out he appeared in MK:DS as a playable character. It should also be noted that he has had many references in video games, particularly in the Kirby series and most noticeably in F-Zero. Kirby... yeah, Sakurai's series. That's pretty much why he's in brawl. So, what's your point?

i don't have a point im just saying there is no reason for him to be cut

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

You're failing to take into account his status as an established SSB character, which makes him every bit as legitimate as the characters you like. Every character has their fans, which is something Sakurai referred to in this interview. I think suggesting he should be dropped or demoted to assist trophy without taking this into account is pretty selfish.

Oh I took that into account into forming my opinion alright. Indeed, not every fighter will return. You could say that if anyone wants anyone cut, then that is selfish. You could say if anyone wants anyone in, then that is selfish. You do realize I am not in charge of making the game, right? How can I be selfish about it if I am not in charge of making it? Remember, it's an opinion. Opinions are formed by experience, knowledge, personal desires, bias, etc. Because of that, people tend to not agree over opinions.

I honestly think Squirtle and Ivysaur would be wise cuts, it would make room for Jigglypuff and Mewtwo. Many people used Charizard over the other two, but I personally used Squirtle the most. I won't miss Squirtle or Ivysaur that much if they are cut, though.

I have also already stated why I believe R.O.B. should be cut. My statements are based on my point of view, which makes my opinions on why he should be cut be subjective, even though some of my opinions are based on objective fact. And if he is cut, that will mean R.O.B. fans would have to take the hit, and I would indeed sympathize with them to a fitting degree.

Honestly, if I had it my way I'd bring everyone from Brawl back, but obviously from the looks of it based on the interview, coupled with the fact that I am a mere fan who is not involved in any part of the development of the game, that will not be the case. So, if I had it my way in this current scenario where not everyone is guaranteed to return, then I would make those cuts.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think Squirtle is the highest tier, actually... I personally saw Charizard used a handful of times compared to the other two.

Personal cuts? Oh boy.
Falco, Lucas, Jigglypuff, Snake. All easy, cleanups to the roster.

I do understand the ROB argument... the fact that he was in the physical world and not the digital upset me for a bit too.
But I think if he were made more unique I'd be all for it.
He is rather a general Robot at this moment, and could use some Wall-Efying.

 

[Xigger]

There's always a reason for cuts: because keeping characters actually does take work. They can't bring back everyone, so they have to make choices, or try to make too many characters and then cut whoever isn't finished. (Which is closer to how it actually works)

As much as we don't like character cuts, not every Smash game SHOULD have to keep all the characters from the last game.

Not to dismiss how they had Diddy and Lucario's Brawl icons in the Direct, but I thought that they designed the characters from scratch evertim...

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/4438642/super-smash-bros-director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

Ctrl+F "scratch"

or, here's some direct quotes:

"We really start from scratch, every time."

"The Smash Bros. developer takes the same care and considerations when redesigning returning characters, like Mario, Donkey Kong and Samus Aran from Metroid. They start from scratch with every character, Sakurai said, first determining how those characters should be graphically represented on new hardware. How characters look, in terms of color, precision and resolution, must be considered before they're designed. That's a challenge for the new Smash Bros., which will have two different levels of visual fidelity and graphical styles across the Wii U and 3Ds versions of the game."

I think you recalled the Brawl hack tool ("BrawlBox") which was used to inject existing models from other games into Brawl.

And I agree, they seemed to start off with Brawl models rather than starting from scratch and Fox and Link proved that.

Well, looks like I lost that round. I'd like to think I worked with Brawlbox too much to make a mistake like that...
But it seems we're all convinced that Sakurai didn't recreate each model to resemble Brawl and THEN make new ones based on that...

 

[smashingDoug]

I think Squirtle is the highest tier, actually... I personally saw Charizard used a handful of times compared to the other two.

Personal cuts? Oh boy.
Falco, Lucas, Jigglypuff, Snake. All easy, cleanups to the roster.

I do understand the ROB argument... the fact that he was in the physical world and not the digital upset me for a bit too.
But I think if he were made more unique I'd be all for it.
He is rather a general Robot at this moment, and could use some Wall-Efying.

made more unique he is unique

 

[pupNapoleon]

made more unique he is unique

He is rather a general Robot at this moment, and could use some Wall-Efying.

 

[Robertman2]

Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, and Mega Man are gone. For a fact!

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

I don't think R.O.B. could use Wall-E-fying. After all, his current design as a character very much matches his actual design as a peripheral. I think it would be fitting for him to stay true to that. It's the same for the Super Scope. It looks even more like the actual peripheral now. It's stuff like that that really makes a lot of sense.

 

[Morbi]

Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, and Mega Man are gone. For a fact!

What are you talking about? Those characters have been confirmed.

I don't think R.O.B. could use Wall-E-fying. After all, his current design as a character very much matches his actual design as a peripheral. I think it would be fitting for him to stay true to that. It's the same for the Super Scope. It looks even more like the actual peripheral now. It's stuff like that that really makes a lot of sense.

R.O.B needs something different from my perspective. He was just too generic to warrant a slot; I mean, perhaps if they gave him some new attributes. I just feel as though he is one of the more boring inclusions, without Subspace, he feels unwarranted.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Hmmm maybe he could change into his Gyromite or Stack Up forms for certain attacks.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't think R.O.B. could use Wall-E-fying. After all, his current design as a character very much matches his actual design as a peripheral. I think it would be fitting for him to stay true to that. It's the same for the Super Scope. It looks even more like the actual peripheral now. It's stuff like that that really makes a lot of sense.

Not visually, just in terms of lovability and personality. I mean, I love him... lets see him act curious or adorable. A la @ Morbi 's statement

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Ah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, if he's back they should make him more kawaii. Definitely.

 

[Robertman2]

What are you talking about? Those characters have been confirmed.


R.O.B needs something different from my perspective. He was just too generic to warrant a slot; I mean, perhaps if they gave him some new attributes. I just feel as though he is one of the more boring inclusions, without Subspace, he feels unwarranted.

Forgot sarcasm doesn't translate well into text.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

Original 12
-99.9%
-95%
-90%

It would take very pressing circumstances for any of the original 12 to be cut. Captain Falcon is probably the most iconic character from Smash, and Ness has a huge cult following, not to mention EB is now on the Virtual Console. Jigglypuff is much less relevant, but she's more or less a tradition at a point.

Popular within series
-99%
-95%
-90%
-80%
-75%
-50% (Mutually exclusive with Falco)

Wario has been confirmed to have reps, he's pretty much in. If Dedede is in, Meta Knight is in. Period. Ganondorf is as relevant as ever. He's the main antagonist of Wind Waker (HD), and Skyward Sword is essentially an origin story for him. Being Sakurai's main also helps. Mewtwo is without a doubt one of the most requested veterans, and he was planned to be in Brawl before he was cut for unknown reasons, presumably time constraints. Ike is probably the most notable Lord to western audiences, since the Tellius series was the first Fire Emblem series to be released in full in the US. Wolf is tricky. Star Fox hasn't gotten anything but a 3DS port. Quite franky, it's lucky to even have two reps. I'm pretty certain that either Falco or Wolf is going. I'd like to see Wolf over Falco, but it's difficult to tell who would actually stay.

Popular in competitive
-85%
-50% (Mutually exclusive with Wolf)
These two are strange. Neither of them are really spectacularly popular in their series, (Ice Climbers haven't seen any action outside of Smash at all), but they're quite popular in the Smash competitive scene. I think the infamous chain grab has given the Ice Climbers enough popularity to stick around. Falco is strange. He's fairly popular in competitive, but 3 reps from a series that hasn't had an original game since 2006 is just absurd. If I had my way they'd both be cut, but realistically speaking I think we'll get one over the other. Wolf has a mostly original moveset, but Falco is more popular.

Slightly more obscure
-85%
-75%
-60%

Mr. Game and Watch is a little more obscure, but he represents a major part of Nintendo history, plus he's a pretty novel concept. I wouldn't worry about him. Ness and Lucas may have similarities, but Mother 3 was huge in Japan, and Earthbound and Mother 3 were pretty distinct games. R.O.B. is strange, he's just sort of there. He's technically original, but he's just not that popular. I don't imagine him being all that high on the totem pole.

Doomed
-5%
() -0%
-0%
-0%
-0%

Snake only got in because the creator of Metal Gear literally begged Sakurai. Transformation characters are out and I highly doubt Squirtle and Ivysaur will be standalone characters. Three Links is just stupid, Roy isn't really relevant anymore, and I seriously wonder what Sakurai was on when he added Pichu.

Alternate costume


Dr. Mario was without a doubt the most shameless clone, to the point where I can see him being an alternate costume for Mario.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Now that Ike is announced, I want to say a few things:

1. I think Roy is gone for sure.
2. I think we may get a rapid fire week of veterans, next with Wario and following with Ness.
3. I think this increases R.O.B.'s chances a lot, as he has a very unique moveset. Maybe a 70% to the post above me.

If that 4 cuts thing was true, Squirtle, Snake, and Ivysaur are 3 of the 4. The 4th one might be Lucas if anything, and maybe make him an Alt for Ness. I don't see R.O.B. getting cut for him because how unique R.O.B. is.

 

[Cpt.]

Original 12
-99.9%
-95%
-90%

It would take very pressing circumstances for any of the original 12 to be cut. Captain Falcon is probably the most iconic character from Smash, and Ness has a huge cult following, not to mention EB is now on the Virtual Console. Jigglypuff is much less relevant, but she's more or less a tradition at a point.

Popular within series
-99%
-95%
-90%
-80%
-75%
-50% (Mutually exclusive with Falco)

Wario has been confirmed to have reps, he's pretty much in. If Dedede is in, Meta Knight is in. Period. Ganondorf is as relevant as ever. He's the main antagonist of Wind Waker (HD), and Skyward Sword is essentially an origin story for him. Being Sakurai's main also helps. Mewtwo is without a doubt one of the most requested veterans, and he was planned to be in Brawl before he was cut for unknown reasons, presumably time constraints. Ike is probably the most notable Lord to western audiences, since the Tellius series was the first Fire Emblem series to be released in full in the US. Wolf is tricky. Star Fox hasn't gotten anything but a 3DS port. Quite franky, it's lucky to even have two reps. I'm pretty certain that either Falco or Wolf is going. I'd like to see Wolf over Falco, but it's difficult to tell who would actually stay.

Popular in competitive
-85%
-50% (Mutually exclusive with Wolf)
These two are strange. Neither of them are really spectacularly popular in their series, (Ice Climbers haven't seen any action outside of Smash at all), but they're quite popular in the Smash competitive scene. I think the infamous chain grab has given the Ice Climbers enough popularity to stick around. Falco is strange. He's fairly popular in competitive, but 3 reps from a series that hasn't had an original game since 2006 is just absurd. If I had my way they'd both be cut, but realistically speaking I think we'll get one over the other. Wolf has a mostly original moveset, but Falco is more popular.

Slightly more obscure
-85%
-75%
-60%

Mr. Game and Watch is a little more obscure, but he represents a major part of Nintendo history, plus he's a pretty novel concept. I wouldn't worry about him. Ness and Lucas may have similarities, but Mother 3 was huge in Japan, and Earthbound and Mother 3 were pretty distinct games. R.O.B. is strange, he's just sort of there. He's technically original, but he's just not that popular. I don't imagine him being all that high on the totem pole.

Doomed
-5%
() -0%
-0%
-0%
-0%

Snake only got in because the creator of Metal Gear literally begged Sakurai. Transformation characters are out and I highly doubt Squirtle and Ivysaur will be standalone characters. Three Links is just stupid, Roy isn't really relevant anymore, and I seriously wonder what Sakurai was on when he added Pichu.

Alternate costume


Dr. Mario was without a doubt the most shameless clone, to the point where I can see him being an alternate costume for Mario.

Wolf and Falco have a better chance to return than Ike....

 

[Swift Fox]

Wolf and Falco have a better chance to return than Ike....

like over 100%? Ike's chance went up to 100% cuz he's already confirmed recently

 

[LightningVance]

Toon Link, Ike, Lucario, Snake, Lucas

In that order of being cut, from most likely to least likely.

Most likely to get revealed first you mean

 

[Ryan.]

I hope Lucas has the same fate as Ike, Toon Link, and Lucario.

 

[Ghirahilda]

I hope that Roy returns so people can shut up their mouths. Sorry for my sharp tongue (fingers in that case), but I'm very dissapointed that a character reveal with a help of a "leak" can make a entire community distorce the chances of a character that I have sure Sakurai cares.

 

[A Lucky Person]

- GONE. They'll likely be the only ones cut.

and aren't clones, so they'll stay along with and .

- still gone. has a strong chance to return compared to the other four in this line.

 

[Twewy]

Ike

Ike

Ike

Ike

Ike

 

[Spinosaurus]

That was nearly a year and I don't even remember why I thought he might get cut.

 

[Twewy]

Fashionably late is a form of style.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't even remember posting that.

 

[SpaceJell0]

When did I say that? xD I changed my opinion later on and I'm actually really happy Ike is back. Please Sakurai, you buffed him aesthetically now buff him technically

 

[Cpt.]

like over 100%? Ike's chance went up to 100% cuz he's already confirmed recently

Hu!!!!!! IKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, I only mentioned him as a possibility. I never really though he was actually going to get axed. I actually supported his return pretty strongly.

 

[ACDC]

Ike's returm is making me realise how much I am terrible at character predictions. First Toon, then Lucario, and then Ike. I concede defeat on this topic.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

I figure Falco'll be returning, but Wolf is gone. As neat as he was, he's a one-and-done. RIP.

 

[Swift Fox]

Look like I am the only one who predicted Ike for next & random reveal...

My next prediction? No character reveals until E3 and you will not see at E3. There are 8 remaining veterans I can't predict if will be in E3 or not...

Just to see if my prediction is really working.

EDIT: please ignore G&W