Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Dcold]

We have to deal with Will, Bum, and Cable. All us NY/NJ people know the power of DK. It's a MU we expect coming, and frankly with all of the practice we get, it's not a hard MU it's just one mistake can cost you a stock.

 

[Judo777]

I might be mistaken but i am fairly sure that his ftilt can punish all of our aerials on shield.

 

[thexsunrosered]

You know guys, there is no shame in changing for the kill. It's not like you're a better sheik if you don't change, a kill is a kill, except it's easier with zelda. Knock them off, transform, ****, transform, and win. There's nothing wrong with it and I don't see why people don't do it, just because it 'hurts their pride' because they didn't stay sheik the whole time

 

[DanGR]

If it was easier to kill every character with Zelda then I'm sure many would transform into her more often. That's not the case though.

 

[thexsunrosered]

If it was easier to kill every character with Zelda then I'm sure many would transform into her more often. That's not the case though.

well I'm saying that if push comes to shove and you just can't get the kill, some people don't change because they have too much pride, which I think is stupid lol

 

[rathy Aro]

Will suggested I change and the only time I did okay against him was when I did..... but no its stupid. I feel like DK ***** Zelda. Try it out though, may work if you can get those LKs oos or catch him with an upsmash when he's trying to space aerials. =/

I like what dmt said about that matchup I still don't feel like what <3 is saying is accurate. I'll try and get vids up if someone helps me.

 

[saviorslegacy]

well I'm saying that if push comes to shove and you just can't get the kill, some people don't change because they have too much pride, which I think is stupid lol

I have pride.

BTW, I have found a few more GR combo's. lol
Now if only we could force a jump release.

 

[-dMT-]

Sheik vs DK is better. DK will destroy Zelda. You need the speed versus him, Zelda is too light to get hit

Even transforming to Zelda to get the kill will often lead to the DK just getting a comeback KO on your Zelda. Zelda can be very predictable switching in to get a KO. More often than not you will be punished for the Sheik > Zelda transform.

Sheik vs DK, if your not on Battlefield, save your vanish. That;s gonna be your main killing tool. On battlefield, force DK on side platforms and get a tipper by baiti an air dodge. Worked on Bum, it'll work on any DK. God i wish those games were saved. I forgot like an idiot

 

[Judo777]

I think part of the reason people dont transform is because people really arent comfortable with zelda when facing a tough opponent. I remember one of my first tourneys i was playing a lucario and got my first kill with a tipper upsmash then next time around when he was at kill percents i swapped to zelda and got ***** for like a stock and a half but i refused to change back. Now i have worked hard to make Zelda easily my second best now i am comfortable going zelda for entire games against bad matchups for sheik.

Also tho concerning swapping to zelda alot of it depends on how will you think u can gimp ur opponent because sheik is very **** offstage and if you think you have some of ur opponents recoveryies read then keep up the pressure offstage but if for some reason they are getting by u everytime then sure swap to zelda just make sure u can play with her.

 

[saviorslegacy]

**** Zelda.
She is the character that you panic to when you can't kill the foe.

I guess she would be good, but everyone pretty much shuts Zelda down.
All of her kill moves are slow and the set ups for them are slow.
Her best ones are Fair, Bair, Dair (all have to be sweet spotted), USmash (can be SDI'd out of), FSmash (can be SDI'd out of), u-tilt (slow as crap) and Uair (slow and easy to see coming). I guess DSmash gets a honorable mention but at those percents you are better off being Sheik.
Her best set ups are like d-tilt (I was told that it doesn't combo into u-tilt) which combo's into the moves that can be SDI'd out of.
On top of that, she dies earlier so if you are at high percents and switch it's like setting yourself up.

I guess if the foe doesn't know how to SDI then Zelda is a good option.
If so then Sheik is the best character to be. She is a pretty solid when it comes to killing.
She is also solid at getting people to kill percents. However, people think that she can't kill because most kill set ups happen past most characters killing percents.
Of course the is blatant and not valid. So I just ignore people who don't know this character (and all you Sheiks should too). Nothing like negativity to make you worse.

 

[-Mars-]

**** Zelda.
She is the character that you panic to when you can't kill the foe.

Yep, except it's somewhat viable in certain matchups like DDD.

I guess she would be good, but everyone pretty much shuts Zelda down.

Most of the good characters....correct.

All of her kill moves are slow and the set ups for them are slow.

Not at all.

Her best ones are Fair, Bair, Dair (all have to be sweet spotted), USmash (can be SDI'd out of), FSmash (can be SDI'd out of), u-tilt (slow as crap) and Uair (slow and easy to see coming). I guess DSmash gets a honorable mention but at those percents you are better off being Sheik.
Her best set ups are like d-tilt (I was told that it doesn't combo into u-tilt) which combo's into the moves that can be SDI'd out of.
On top of that, she dies earlier so if you are at high percents and switch it's like setting yourself up.

Dair and Fair aren't really good at all lol. Her best kill moves would be bair, usmash and dsmash. All of those are 6 frames or less......making them all pretty viable OoS or off of a dtilt trip.

If you can force your opponent to approach(which if you have a significant lead it shouldn't be that hard), then dtilt, usmash,dsmash, and bair are all good OoS options. Couple that with the range of fsmash and at high percents it makes Zelda fairly dangerous at high percentages.

Having said that you have to be aware that some characters can keep Zelda from ever touching them lol.[/QUOTE]

I guess if the foe doesn't know how to SDI then Zelda is a good option.
If so then Sheik is the best character to be. She is a pretty solid when it comes to killing.
She is also solid at getting people to kill percents. However, people think that she can't kill because most kill set ups happen past most characters killing percents.
Of course the is blatant and not valid. So I just ignore people who don't know this character (and all you Sheiks should too). Nothing like negativity to make you worse.

Sheik still struggles to land the KO....imo....but yea it isn't THAT big of a deal.

 

[Tristan_win]

What pains me about Zelda is that her Fsmash is can be escaped and it's know for such and you can even DI out of her Usmash if you quick about it and then counter attack! Her dsmash although decent for knockback has poor range and isn't exactly safest attack on shield, her fair can't hit most opponents on the raise very well so you have to be facing away from them to use the trademark lighting kicks, uair isn't good, din is ****, her only good killer really on the ground if you get down to it are her tilts.

Zelda is just too fat for my taste,

I rather die as a Ninja then a Princess unless I'm fighting a King.

 

[Zankoku]

I rather die as a Ninja then a Princess unless I'm fighting a King.

...Like Bowser!

 

[Rawnie]

Didn't do so hot at yesterday's tourney.

Peach. </3

Got maybe 13th? Haven't seen the results yet.

Though, I did get 3rd with Zelda is low tier. =/

 

[Judo777]

I have never had anyone SDI out of my upsmash unless i used it where they were on the very edge of the hitbox. Yea fsmash can be annoying cause they can SDI out. Dtilt i am rather sure that at some percent it does combo into utilt. uair is best used after u bait an airdodge. dsmash is an easy kill move to land if they are right on top of u which is where most people want to be on zelda cause that where she sucks. And you should never be in a panic mind set with zelda cause if so u are using her wrong. You have to be smart to use zelda.

Oh and i am like 90% sure that zelda lives 2 percent longer than sheik in both direction so she is actually a little heavier. Dair is definitely not one of zeldas best kill move you would have to go offstage to kill with that move and zelda should never be offstage. The last note Zelda sucks at racking up damage thats her biggest freaking problem.

 

[Tristan_win]

...Like Bowser!

Ah..... **** it ankoku...

 

[stealth3654]

Zelda is a little heavier than Sheik.

Zelda has a down tilt lock that can lead to utilt/dsmash.

Zelda's down smash comes out just as fast, if not then a frame or two slower, than MK's down smash.

 

[<π]

sheiks down smash comes out the same speed as zelda's which is the same as MKs.

zelda's recovery is very 1 dimensional so her very very slight weight counts for pretty much nothing if you get hit off stage getting solid ground back is very difficult.

usmash is very difficult to DI out of on reaction unless you are playing ICs who seem to do it automatically. it is a very good move over all. I think even with that DI out flaw. very fast a great answer to a lot of aerial approaches.

That said zelda is not a good character! >: (

 

[-dMT-]

I'm pretty sure Zelda's dsmash is faster than Sheik's dsmash, albeit by a frame or 2 maybe

Just a detail. Overall most MUs are better of being played through as Sheik unless you have the utmost confidence in your Zelda's performance beyond just landing a killing blow.

 

[-Mars-]

MK dsmash- frame 4
Sheik dsmash- frame 4
Zelda dsmash- frame 4

And yes, most matchups it is wise to remain sheik unless you want to switch to refresh moves

 

[-dMT-]

Really? Coulda sworn Zelda's was frame 2. Wasn't that how it was in Melee as well? Poor Zelda lmao

 

[-Mars-]

Frame 2 smash attack? That would be awesome lol.

 

[Zankoku]

Zelda's dsmash hit on either frame 3 or 4 in Melee, I forget which. It was also significantly weaker, though.

 

[<π]

4 in melee fastest smash attack in the game; no ties. I was almost a serious zelda main. stuck with samy and pichu.

still though being a Peach main with my PiCHU tag in brawl would have been too good. oh well needL wrecks too.

 

[Zankoku]

Peach's hits on frame 4 as well, <3.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Peach's hits on frame 4 as well, <3.

Are you a walking Smash bros. Encyclopedia?

 

[Judo777]

Zelda has slight advantageous matchups on IC's and advantageous matchups on Pikachu and Kirby...... seems like a decent reason to learn her if u ask me. IMO those are sheiks 3 worst MU's so why not learn zelda.

 

[Tristan_win]

Zelda has slight advantageous matchups on IC's and advantageous matchups on Pikachu and Kirby...... seems like a decent reason to learn her if u ask me. IMO those are sheiks 3 worst MU's so why not learn zelda.

Show me a video of a Zelda betting a good Kirby and then I'll might believe you. Out of all the match ups in the game even ice climbers Kirby is the only one that made me invest some time into my 2nd game and watch.

 

[Judo777]

Show me a video of a Zelda betting a good Kirby and then I'll might believe you. Out of all the match ups in the game even ice climbers Kirby is the only one that made me invest some time into my 2nd game and watch.

Well if its any consolation (which i doubt it is) I beat the 4th best player in our state who mains kirby with my zelda after he beat my sheik pretty bad. I have played YBM who is one of the best kirbys in the nation and he didnt beat me that much worse than this guys kirby (although im not trying to say they are equal lol just saying this kirby wasnt bad)

 

[saviorslegacy]

Ima just alt Kirby and call it a day.

 

[<π]

I just run away from kirby all game.

 

[Dcold]

Kirby isn't that hard to play against. Seriously he's not. I say the MU is even. We can get comboed, but not to an extent where it is 0-Death. Not a really hard MU. No 2nd needed.

 

[-dMT-]

Kirby is actually..pretty tough. Try vs JTails' Kirby dcold. His Kirby is pretty beast.

 

[Judo777]

Kirby is hard for a good number of reasons. Firstly his biggest draw back which is his light weight is nullified due to our lack of kill power. He on the other hand can kill us very very easily cause his fsmash kills at like 80 and aerial hammer is powerful too. Also holy crap bair!!! Bair beats every single one of our moves except for needles and the chain. Next on the list holy crap he can take our needles when that happens we can no longer camp him at all. We can gimp him right? Not entirely cause he has soooo much more priority in the air and can space much better cause he has 5 jumps. Also if we arent careful he will kirbycide us. Thats ok we can chain camp him.....no we cant cause of stone and final cutter (its like the moves only purpose in the game lol)

Kirby is imo the hardest MU we have that we arent losing for gay reasons like cg (glares at IC's and pika)

 

[-dMT-]

Kirby is hard for a good number of reasons. Firstly his biggest draw back which is his light weight is nullified due to our lack of kill power. He on the other hand can kill us very very easily cause his fsmash kills at like 80 and aerial hammer is powerful too. Also holy crap bair!!! Bair beats every single one of our moves except for needles and the chain. Next on the list holy crap he can take our needles when that happens we can no longer camp him at all. We can gimp him right? Not entirely cause he has soooo much more priority in the air and can space much better cause he has 5 jumps. Also if we arent careful he will kirbycide us. Thats ok we can chain camp him.....no we cant cause of stone and final cutter (its like the moves only purpose in the game lol)

Kirby is imo the hardest MU we have that we arent losing for gay reasons like cg (glares at IC's and pika)

Agreed.

Spoiler

10char

 

[PK-ow!]

Hit Down-B, lol.


Hi, I'm picking up Sheik because I finally decided I had a decent enough Zelda to warrant investing in learning the full dual character.

Got my DACUS down, although it sucks having yet another tap jump off scheme complicating Up-Bs OoS.


*~*~*~

But again... on the Kirby matchup... I hate to parrot what's current, but vertical spacing might be very relevant here. Sheik has not only great fall speed, but I think the fastest rising speed in the cast (maybe a spacey). We don't outrange Kirbs, but if he comes in the air, can we not try to bait a laggy aerial? And, we've got an awesome crouch; if Kirby accounts for it, can't Sheik screw with him then?


Here's hoping a jacket glitch fixes the matchup, lol.

 

[iLight]

if you crouch in this match up... don't get f-smashed lol

 

[Judo777]

unlike d3 we cant crouch kirby's bair. Also most kirbys wont do aerials right above u and stay they generally like to retreat those bairs.

 

[kingcobra9]

d3 can crouch moves?

 

[Dcold]

I've basically came up with 2 names for Jtails.

1. The albino NinjaLink [RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE]
2. The White Shadow [LOL] dmt you know what i mean xD