51 characters total, reasoning inside.

[RhymesWithEmpty]

While it is true that it would be a roster that I'd be very happy with, I was only using it as an example for how a 59 character roster is reasonable without having an excessive amount of newcomers. I did note that the math gave a possibility of a 49 character roster, as well. That had room for all the confirmed characters, remaining Brawl vets, and Mewtwo. If you think certain characters will be cut, you can replace them with newcomers of your choosing (or Gematsu's). Also, while I have yet to find the source of the info that Mii Fighters aren't part of the CSS and have their own slot, that would also leave it open for one more newcomer.

FYI, I care about those "old clones" as they are a part of the Smash series just like every other character. Same goes for Squirtle and Ivysaur, whom both have a unique moveset. Also, Red was a popular character from the days of Brawl speculation prior to the Pokémon Trainer's reveal. They had some creative movesets for him using items from the games (no one had expected the switching mechanic that we received in Brawl). A solo Pokémon Trainer would be a feasible character, though he would count as a newcomer due to his revamped moveset.

I do like your roster and I'd be happy if that was the final one (though I'd be sad about the cut Brawl vets and Melee vets).

Sorry, I may have read a bit too much into the fact that you were bringing back all of the clones, like it was part of your argument, but I see now you've clearly stated that it's just your personal views on who should be added. My bad! Still, I don't think this is a reliable method for determining roster size. Just because we've had up to 3 columns added in the past doesn't make it some law we must apply to our predictions. But I'm starting to sound like a bit of a broken record in here about how this is all backwards logic, so, sure, why not. 59 characters. It would be hard to complain about.

The idea of bringing Pokemon Trainer back still bugs me, though. Having him as a fighter kind of flies in the face of Pokemon convention XD Yeah, almost anybody could be given a moveset and turned into a unique fighter if they really want to go for it, but I think they still strive to accurately represent each series, especially with Pokemon, and having the Pokemon Trainer, who used Pokemon in the last game, able to beat them up now... I mean, I know it's a beat 'em up game, but something about a Pokemon trainer beating on Pokemon is just so wrong XD

I don't mind Squirtle and Ivysaur returning, though. Really, only other big problems I have with your roster are Pichu(literally just a weaker Pikachu in pretty much every sense), Young Link(because people weren't butthurt enough about Toon Link?), and Dr. Mario(easily an alt. costume). There are just so many better options from within their own series for all of those. Roy would be great to see de-cloned, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh, I stopped receiving alerts, anyway, I understand your point @ Jumpman84 , but I wasn't saying they were newcomers, I said I find it unlikely that they would return and that would mean newcomers would have to take their spot, it would be cool all Smash characters to date plus those newcomers, but I find it unlikely, I will be expecting 50 to not set up for disapointment

 

[Deoxys911]

Well that's where single reps come in. I've got these two pics as examples from earlier with both vertical and horizontal scrolling.

Spoiler

If you take out K. Rool, Ridley, Takamaru, and Mewtwo, I'd say that second one looks pretty realistic for the Wii U version's select screen. I could definitely see a horizontally scrolling CSS that looks a lot like this for the 3DS, too, though I think it would make a little more sense if instead of being quite so long there was one more row. Altogether, nice mock-up.

 

[Ondo]

So this roster has Greninja to the left of Pikachu in order to put important characters in the far right column, right? That makes sense to me, and is an interesting take on why that anomaly exists. But if they did that for the Pokemon and Kirby reps, why wouldn't they do that for the Metroid ones as well and put Samus in the right column?

Here's my take on the roster, with 47 characters, for the Wii U:

The key to the layout here is putting all the Nintendo newcomers in the center. It does move Shulk away from the other RPG characters, but it has Fire Emblem after Kirby and Star Fox not to put them with the other RPG characters but in order to put the Fire Emblem newcomer in a center column.

And here's my 3DS layout:

This assumes not scrolling but two separate pages of characters, and the second smaller so that it can sometimes be put on the bottom screen. The reason I went with this layout is that it works quite well for this set of characters. In particular, I like that the first screen is Nintendo characters that appeared on the NES (or earlier, for Game & Watch), and their franchises.

 

[Jumpman84]

Sorry, I may have read a bit too much into the fact that you were bringing back all of the clones, like it was part of your argument, but I see now you've clearly stated that it's just your personal views on who should be added. My bad! Still, I don't think this is a reliable method for determining roster size. Just because we've had up to 3 columns added in the past doesn't make it some law we must apply to our predictions. But I'm starting to sound like a bit of a broken record in here about how this is all backwards logic, so, sure, why not. 59 characters. It would be hard to complain about.

The idea of bringing Pokemon Trainer back still bugs me, though. Having him as a fighter kind of flies in the face of Pokemon convention XD Yeah, almost anybody could be given a moveset and turned into a unique fighter if they really want to go for it, but I think they still strive to accurately represent each series, especially with Pokemon, and having the Pokemon Trainer, who used Pokemon in the last game, able to beat them up now... I mean, I know it's a beat 'em up game, but something about a Pokemon trainer beating on Pokemon is just so wrong XD

I don't mind Squirtle and Ivysaur returning, though. Really, only other big problems I have with your roster are Pichu(literally just a weaker Pikachu in pretty much every sense), Young Link(because people weren't butthurt enough about Toon Link?), and Dr. Mario(easily an alt. costume). There are just so many better options from within their own series for all of those. Roy would be great to see de-cloned, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, I can understand that a trainer beating up on a Pokémon does seem wrong when you think about it... but so does Mario beating up Peach, Link beating up Zelda, beating up children (Ness and Lucas).... There's also the fact that the Pokémon themselves are much more prominent and the main focus, so they'll always be picked over trainers. The only one whom could be considered for Smash at this point is Red, due to his appearance in Brawl as Pokémon Trainer and for being the most popular (and recurring) trainer in the whole series. I personally consider him a Nintendo All-Star at this point.

Ugh, I stopped receiving alerts, anyway, I understand your point @ Jumpman84 , but I wasn't saying they were newcomers, I said I find it unlikely that they would return and that would mean newcomers would have to take their spot, it would be cool all Smash characters to date plus those newcomers, but I find it unlikely, I will be expecting 50 to not set up for disapointment

I can understand that thinking, definitely. In my opinion, there's no reason for there to be 59 characters unless all the vets return. I was demonstrating that the math gives 59 as a possibility, but it could only be 49 or 54, as well. We'll definitely get 59 if all vets are in, I can guarantee it. With no Brawl vets cut, but not all Melee characters return, we'll get 54. If there are Brawl cuts and no Melee returns, it could go either way, but 49 opens up as being possible.

 

[Erimir]

@ EbonyRubberWolf

Leaving aside all that other stuff, I do have a question.

Suppose that Sakurai did create a roster of 49-54 characters (you admitted that this is possible). And Sakurai came to you and asked you to create the CSS for the 3DS with that roster.

I assume you wouldn't reply to Sakurai "You should just cut the roster to 47 or 48 because anything else means you're a ****ty menu designer."

So how would you design the CSS in that situation? Surely you can design something attractive and convenient for a roster of that size.

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

Yeah, I can understand that a trainer beating up on a Pokémon does seem wrong when you think about it... but so does Mario beating up Peach, Link beating up Zelda, beating up children (Ness and Lucas).... There's also the fact that the Pokémon themselves are much more prominent and the main focus, so they'll always be picked over trainers. The only one whom could be considered for Smash at this point is Red, due to his appearance in Brawl as Pokémon Trainer and for being the most popular (and recurring) trainer in the whole series. I personally consider him a Nintendo All-Star at this point.

Yeah, I guess Mario being able to beat up Peach is kind of strange now that I think about it, but there's still something much worse seeming to me about a Pokemon Trainer fighting Pokemon. Probably because A, the fighting is always relegated solely to the Pokemon and never to the player character, and B, the moral at the end of Red's game, and throughout the series on the whole, is that your bonds of love and friendship with your Pokemon are what allowed you to succeed. So to me, at least, it would feel like beating on your pets that implicitly trust you XD Maybe if the Pokemon Trainer had been thrown into the fray like that in games previously, the way Peach, or, y'know, every other fighter aside from the Villager has been, I could write it off as a friendly skirmish, but I feel like it'd still give me strong owner-beating-their-pets vibe XD And I'm gonna guess Game Freak/The Pokemon Company wouldn't really be crazy about the idea of a character equatable to Ash beating up Pikachu

So, would you want a 59 character roster solely for absolutely everyone returning, or do you have characters you would actually rather replaced the clones?

 

[Jumpman84]

Yeah, I guess Mario being able to beat up Peach is kind of strange now that I think about it, but there's still something much worse seeming to me about a Pokemon Trainer fighting Pokemon. Probably because A, the fighting is always relegated solely to the Pokemon and never to the player character, and B, the moral at the end of Red's game, and throughout the series on the whole, is that your bonds of love and friendship with your Pokemon are what allowed you to succeed. So to me, at least, it would feel like beating on your pets that implicitly trust you XD Maybe if the Pokemon Trainer had been thrown into the fray like that in games previously, the way Peach, or, y'know, every other fighter aside from the Villager has been, I could write it off as a friendly skirmish, but I feel like it'd still give me strong owner-beating-their-pets vibe XD And I'm gonna guess Game Freak/The Pokemon Company wouldn't really be crazy about the idea of a character equatable to Ash beating up Pikachu

So, would you want a 59 character roster solely for absolutely everyone returning, or do you have characters you would actually rather replaced the clones?

The former, honestly. The only thing preventing them from returning would be time constraints, like in Brawl (hence we only got 39 instead of 44). I think the only way we'd get 59 is if everyone returned (and we would need space for at least three more newcomers). If cuts are happening again, that's where the math allows us to have a 54 or 49 roster. But I guarantee it won't be less than 49...

 

[Deoxys911]

The former, honestly. The only thing preventing them from returning would be time constraints, like in Brawl (hence we only got 39 instead of 44). I think the only way we'd get 59 is if everyone returned (and we would need space for at least three more newcomers). If cuts are happening again, that's where the math allows us to have a 54 or 49 roster. But I guarantee it won't be less than 49...

I appreciate all the time you put into your calculations and theory as a whole, but I still feel as though 47 is the magic number, no more and no less. The great part is if I'm right, I'm right, and if you're right and I'm wrong, we get even more characters than I was expecting! I like this situation.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Given what we've seen, I'm kinda leaning toward 47+random.

The Wii U screen would be 12x4; the 3DS screen would be 8x6.

The former, honestly. The only thing preventing them from returning would be time constraints, like in Brawl (hence we only got 39 instead of 44). I think the only way we'd get 59 is if everyone returned (and we would need space for at least three more newcomers). If cuts are happening again, that's where the math allows us to have a 54 or 49 roster. But I guarantee it won't be less than 49...

I don't mean to offend you, but I checked your math, and it's way off the mark.

Characters get added, not rows and columns. From 64 to Melee we went up by 13. From Melee to Brawl, we went up by 10. It's not reasonable to assume we can now expect the roster to leap by 24 just because that would add a certain number of columns.

The number of rows and columns is changed to fit the number of characters, not the other way around.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

So this roster has Greninja to the left of Pikachu in order to put important characters in the far right column, right? That makes sense to me, and is an interesting take on why that anomaly exists. But if they did that for the Pokemon and Kirby reps, why wouldn't they do that for the Metroid ones as well and put Samus in the right column?

Here's my take on the roster, with 47 characters, for the Wii U:

The key to the layout here is putting all the Nintendo newcomers in the center. It does move Shulk away from the other RPG characters, but it has Fire Emblem after Kirby and Star Fox not to put them with the other RPG characters but in order to put the Fire Emblem newcomer in a center column.

And here's my 3DS layout:

This assumes not scrolling but two separate pages of characters, and the second smaller so that it can sometimes be put on the bottom screen. The reason I went with this layout is that it works quite well for this set of characters. In particular, I like that the first screen is Nintendo characters that appeared on the NES (or earlier, for Game & Watch), and their franchises.

I strongly doubt the bottom screen would be used for CSS purposes, given that it would be two different resolutions as well as impede visibility of who's picked who(unless you can see their tokens I suppose, but even then..). An interesting theory of placing newcomers at the center of the roster though, the 3DS demo character placement would suggest something similar(if the placements weren't just placeholders), but there are some funky placements(ZSS/Samus for instance).

@ EbonyRubberWolf

Leaving aside all that other stuff, I do have a question.

Suppose that Sakurai did create a roster of 49-54 characters (you admitted that this is possible). And Sakurai came to you and asked you to create the CSS for the 3DS with that roster.

I assume you wouldn't reply to Sakurai "You should just cut the roster to 47 or 48 because anything else means you're a ****ty menu designer."

So how would you design the CSS in that situation? Surely you can design something attractive and convenient for a roster of that size.

Pandora's Box...

I would do what anyone else would do in that scenario, aim to provide as much information on-screen as possible whilst maintaining readability. In this instance, 49-54 could call for an additional row situated at the bottom, in my opinion. Anything less than 54 would have to be served melee-style, leaving gaps in the corners. It would likely be an 'eyecatch' style layout, with the eyes and maybe a facial feature or two of the character serving as immediate identification within their cell,, their text name clarifying, and the bottom screen's player summary displaying the full artwork.

Yeah, I guess Mario being able to beat up Peach is kind of strange now that I think about it,

Well, there does exist a licensed Nintendo game with domestic violence in it... On the NES, no less!

 

[Leafeon523]

Well, there does exist a licensed Nintendo game with domestic violence in it... On the NES, no less!

Someone's been watching Jontron's videos... but Takeshi's Challenge is truly a "unique" game and not what you would expect to see on a Nintendo system

 

[Jumpman84]

Given what we've seen, I'm kinda leaning toward 47+random.

The Wii U screen would be 12x4; the 3DS screen would be 8x6.


I don't mean to offend you, but I checked your math, and it's way off the mark.

Characters get added, not rows and columns. From 64 to Melee we went up by 13. From Melee to Brawl, we went up by 10. It's not reasonable to assume we can now expect the roster to leap by 24 just because that would add a certain number of columns.

The number of rows and columns is changed to fit the number of characters, not the other way around.

No offense taken, but I'm afraid that it's your math that's off this time. If we're talking characters, we actually went up by 14 from 64 to Melee, as we got 26 characters in that game. Brawl had 39, so that's an increase by 13. Also keep in mind that we received 5 cuts from Melee and other planned newcomers were cut as well. So we were originally going to have more of an increase (at minimum by 18). From Brawl to Smash 4, I don't think an increase by 20 is unreasonable, when we'd get all the veterans back (which shouldn't count). The newcomer range is 15 with this setup, which is less than the 18 of Brawl, but one more than Melee. Making it a balance between Melee and Brawl...

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

No offense taken, but I'm afraid that it's your math that's off this time. If we're talking characters, we actually went up by 14 from 64 to Melee, as we got 26 characters in that game. Brawl had 39, so that's an increase by 13. Also keep in mind that we received 5 cuts from Melee and other planned newcomers were cut as well. So we were originally going to have more of an increase (at minimum by 18). From Brawl to Smash 4, I don't think an increase by 20 is unreasonable, when we'd get all the veterans back (which shouldn't count). The newcomer range is 15 with this setup, which is less than the 18 of Brawl, but one more than Melee. Making it a balance between Melee and Brawl...

Well, I was counting transformations as single characters, but that's not super important.

Regardless, what we're doing here can't be considered "math"; it's too speculative. All we can do is extrapolate past data to estimate a range; the past data is not sufficient to constitute a pattern, so our range is huge.

Just because Brawl had more newcomers than Melee doesn't mean the same will happen in Smash 4. The chance of all veterans returning is also rather slim. That's really all that's determinable; there are no real mathematical patterns here.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Just because Brawl had more newcomers than Melee doesn't mean the same will happen in Smash 4.

Considering all the resources and manpower behind Smash 4, it should.

 

[Deoxys911]

Considering all the resources and manpower behind Smash 4, it should.

Unless they are focusing more on balance, uniqueness, and customization for characters instead of sheer roster size.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Unless they are focusing more on balance, uniqueness, and customization for characters instead of sheer roster size.

I don't think I'm asking too much for them to match 14 or so. As many corners as they've been cutting with some of these characters, that's the least they owe us.

 

[Bedoop]

I just did some math & stuff, and if you include all the Currently Confirmed Characters, Alt. Costumes (Gunner, Swordfighter and Brawler Miis count as seperate in this scenario), Dark Pit (because I'm willing to bet 20 Jerma Bucks he's an Alt. Costume/Playable) and Mr. Game & Watch (because he was basically confirmed with Pac-Man), we have a whopping total of different 42 Models/Characters to play as SO FAR.
Holy crud, that's alot! Including the 3 Gematsu's (Chrous Men, Shulk & Chrom) that's 45! Holy banana slamma!

 

[himemiya]

First of all,


For further information, this is what the roster would most likely look like (switching some characters to suit your prediction)

falco, chorus men, waddle dee? I don't think so.I want krystal and ghiraham though.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Considering all the resources and manpower behind Smash 4, it should.

Do we even know how many people are working on Smash 4 compared to Brawl? Regardless, it doesn't work like that.

If Smash 4 had the same resources Brawl had, that doesn't mean we'd get another 18 characters again. It would be way less.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Considering all the resources and manpower behind Smash 4, it should.

Do you hear that?

That's the wailing over Brawl's 35-character roster repeating itself.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Do you hear that?

That's the wailing over Brawl's 35-character roster repeating itself.

God, I hated those times. That was the single most pathetic cooperative outburst in the history of the internet.

 

[Zwzchow]

God, I hated those times. That was the single most pathetic cooperative outburst in the history of the internet.

Just pray that that doesn't happen when Gematsu comes true and we don't get the highly requested characters. Ugh just think of all the hate posted on the Ridley thread

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Just pray that that doesn't happen when Gematsu comes true and we don't get the highly requested characters. Ugh just think of all the hate posted on the Ridley thread

I've got my popcorn and an empty 5-gallon jug at the ready. I'll be able to replace my plumbing with the sheer amount of tears that'll be generated.

EDIT: Zwz your sig makes me wish Xerneas was playable.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Do we even know how many people are working on Smash 4 compared to Brawl? Regardless, it doesn't work like that.

If Smash 4 had the same resources Brawl had, that doesn't mean we'd get another 18 characters again. It would be way less.

Do you hear that?

That's the wailing over Brawl's 35-character roster repeating itself.

I didn't mind Brawl's roster, but let's be honest with ourselves here. They've got tons of talented people between Bamco, Nintendo and Sakurai's finest working on the project, so there's no excuse not to go as all out on this Smash as they can. Seriously, they've got Tales devs working on that thing, and they've clearly been cutting corners - most veterans have few, to no, perceivable changes, clearly built onto Brawl's framework to save time if the project only takes two and a half years to complete - so where's all that saved time going? Because it sure doesn't seem like it's the roster.

Let's be honest with ourselves a second time here, if you guys can handle it: the roster is the most important aspect of ANY fighting game, hardcore OR party. It should be your primary focus, exacerbated several times over by the fact that this is a crossover fighter. Even Sakurai seems to know this to an extent, seeing as all the newcomers have trailers attached to them.

Look, I don't know about you guys, but I don't HAVE to purchase the game if it's clear that there's nothing being done to convince me to purchase it. I don't need this game to live. That's another $100+ in my pocket if I choose not to buy them. You see, it's Sakurai's job to convince me these games are worth buying, and besides a few things that stick out at me, so far he's failing at that. This is an entertainment medium, so I'm expecting to be entertained. If they fail that, that's not MY problem, it's THEIR problem.

So I feel like I have every right to wail about this game, because I would love to purchase it, but it's Sakurai and Nintendo that want my money and have thus far failed in their jobs to convince me to purchase it.

 

[Zwzchow]

I've got my popcorn and an empty 5-gallon jug at the ready. I'll be able to replace my plumbing with the sheer amount of tears that'll be generated.

EDIT: Zwz your sig makes me wish Xerneas was playable.

hehe we need a four-legged character :3 (although it's difficult in a fighting game meh)
Not Ivysaur ._.

and it will be definitely entertaining to see all the people whine and complain that they wouldn't buy the game

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

You see, it's Sakurai's job to convince me these games are worth buying, and besides a few things that stick out at me, so far he's failing at that. This is an entertainment medium, so I'm expecting to be entertained. If they fail that, that's not MY problem, it's THEIR problem.

I wasn't aware you were a member of these boards, Mr. KING OF EVERYTHING. How nice of you to grace us with your presence.

Perhaps we should all march down to Sakurai's house in your name to make sure the game is properly catered toward your needs. Seeing as if you don't like all the awesome stuff in the game, they're going to have their hands full of problems when you don't buy it.

Perhaps while we're there we can berate Sakurai and his development staff for all the blatant corner-cutting they've been doing while producing the latest game in a series of which we are all huge fans. Maybe you could let us know exactly what they should be doing so we can pass on the message! I'm sure your decades of video game design experience will make it very easy for you to determine a proper schedule.

 

[Deleted member]

I wasn't aware you were a member of these boards, Mr. KING OF EVERYTHING. How nice of you to grace us with your presence.

Perhaps we should all march down to Sakurai's house in your name to make sure the game is properly catered toward your needs. Seeing as if you don't like all the awesome stuff in the game, they're going to have their hands full of problems when you don't buy it.

Perhaps while we're there we can berate Sakurai and his development staff for all the blatant corner-cutting they've been doing while producing the latest game in a series of which we are all huge fans. Maybe you could let us know exactly what they should be doing so we can pass on the message! I'm sure your decades of video game design experience will make it very easy for you to determine a proper schedule.

What he means is that if people aren't interested in the roster, they aren't forced to buy it, no one is going to buy a game because they balanced it or itroduced new items, what sells is the roster, a casual player that looks at the supposed roster you guys think it's going to be will see plus 9 characters from the last game, it isn't going to sell this way

 

[Bedoop]

hehe we need a four-legged character :3 (although it's difficult in a fighting game meh)
Not Ivysaur ._.

and it will be definitely entertaining to see all the people whine and complain that they wouldn't buy the game

Looking for Four-Legged-Character?
Wynaut Arcanine?

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

What he means is that if people aren't interested in the roster, they aren't forced to buy it, no one is going to buy a game because they balanced it or itroduced new items, what sells is the roster, a casual player that looks at the supposed roster you guys think it's going to be will see plus 9 characters from the last game, it isn't going to sell this way

No, Melee/Brawl veterans may look at the roster and balk a little, but newcomers with Wii Us will line up in droves to buy it. It makes sense that this is the strategy, too, at least as far as methodology goes. It's mirrored in their Pokemon games, assuming every player of the games is brand new, with tutorials and all.

Looking for Four-Legged-Character?
Wynaut Arcanine?

Because I actually like Xerneas. >.>;

He's the only Legendary I actually like having on teams and such. The rest are poo. :\

 

[Jumpman84]

I'll buy the game regardless of the roster, but I can't help but feel sad when I've discovered that some veterans have been cut due to time constraints. It'll still be a great game, as always... And I'm not one to complain about it, either. If you don't like the game because of the roster, you don't have to buy it. But you must admit it's a silly reason...

 

[ChunkyBeef]

No, Melee/Brawl veterans may look at the roster and balk a little, but newcomers with Wii Us will line up in droves to buy it. It makes sense that this is the strategy, too, at least as far as methodology goes. It's mirrored in their Pokemon games, assuming every player of the games is brand new, with tutorials and all.

Oh, it's still going to sell oodles of copies whether or not I choose to buy it, but if I disagree with Sakurai's eccentricities this time and choose not to buy it, the loudest statement I can make as a consumer is to not purchase it. Like I said, I don't HAVE to buy it, and it's Sakurai and Nintendo's job to give me reason to buy it. So far, I don't have a reason to buy it.

I wasn't aware you were a member of these boards, Mr. KING OF EVERYTHING. How nice of you to grace us with your presence.

Way to jump to conclusions and go on a rant, Ms. Sarcasm. Can't say I'm surprised you didn't take away from my post what I intended to be taken away from it.

"Oh, Beef, you're acting so entitled!"

'cause I am entitled as the consumer. I can just as easily keep my money as spend it. Again, for the hundredth time, if something doesn't interest me in an entertainment medium, even if I'm a fan of it, I don't have to purchase it. It's a luxury, always has been, always will be.

So when the only new addition to the roster that I actually wanted was Little Mac, well.. I think unless Sakurai's got some killer secrets lined up I might well not even bother buying it, and that's my choice. That doesn't make me 'Mr. KING OF EVERYTHING' as you so nicely put it. That makes me a consumer that's careful about what he spends his money on. I assume you think you're taking some moral high ground by buying the game regardless of the crap Sakurai's pulling.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Oh, it's still going to sell oodles of copies whether or not I choose to buy it, but if I disagree with Sakurai's eccentricities this time and choose not to buy it, the loudest statement I can make as a consumer is to not purchase it. Like I said, I don't HAVE to buy it, and it's Sakurai and Nintendo's job to give me reason to buy it. So far, I don't have a reason to buy it.



Way to jump to conclusions and go on a rant, Ms. Sarcasm. Can't say I'm surprised you didn't take away from my post what I intended to be taken away from it.

"Oh, Beef, you're acting so entitled!"

'cause I am entitled as the consumer. I can just as easily keep my money as spend it. Again, for the hundredth time, if something doesn't interest me in an entertainment medium, even if I'm a fan of it, I don't have to purchase it. It's a luxury, always has been, always will be.

So when the only new addition to the roster that I actually wanted was Little Mac, well.. I think unless Sakurai's got some killer secrets lined up I might well not even bother buying it, and that's my choice. That doesn't make me 'Mr. KING OF EVERYTHING' as you so nicely put it. That makes me a consumer that's careful about what he spends his money on. I assume you think you're taking some moral high ground by buying the game regardless of the crap Sakurai's pulling.

If I get a revamped Ganondorf and/or King K. Rool, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. If not... I'll wait a bit before I buy it.

The current Newcomers and speculated Gematsu newcomers just don't sit with me very well. The only Newcomer I really really like in Mega Man.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

If I get a revamped Ganondorf and/or King K. Rool, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. If not... I'll wait a bit before I buy it.

The current Newcomers and speculated Gematsu newcomers just don't sit with me very well. The only Newcomer I really really like in Mega Man.

Yeah. It's not even like my standards are impossible to reach. All I want is Ness or Lucas, and Ganondorf, preferably with a long overdue moveset revamp. After that, everything else is gravy.

The fact that Mother might be getting downsized also doesn't sit well with me as a Mother fan, but, y'know, c'est la vie.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Oh, it's still going to sell oodles of copies whether or not I choose to buy it, but if I disagree with Sakurai's eccentricities this time and choose not to buy it, the loudest statement I can make as a consumer is to not purchase it. Like I said, I don't HAVE to buy it, and it's Sakurai and Nintendo's job to give me reason to buy it. So far, I don't have a reason to buy it.

A fair opinion. Bear in mind though you may not be the target audience, or may be a lesser priority, than getting new people into the game.

 

[PixelPasta]

This is a good, sensible estimate.

Remove Bandanna Dee from your example roster and add Ghirahim, and then I think you've got yourself the final roster.
And maybe, just maybe, Mewtwo will be in at the expense of the random button... somehow...

 

[ChunkyBeef]

A fair opinion. Bear in mind though you may not be the target audience, or may be a lesser priority, than getting new people into the game.

Except the broadest target audience should be the default target audience for a game like Smash Brothers, and that's Nintendo fans. I'm a Nintendo fan, therefore, I should be the target audience. Makes sense, right?

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Except the broadest target audience should be the default target audience for a game like Smash Brothers, and that's Nintendo fans. I'm a Nintendo fan, therefore, I should be the target audience. Makes sense, right?

Right, but you'd likely not be wowed by Falco being an unlockable again. People new to the series would get pretty hype over that kind of stuff, though. The newcomers are for the veteran players. The rest is for the newbies.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Right, but you'd likely not be wowed by Falco being an unlockable again. People new to the series would get pretty hype over that kind of stuff, though. The newcomers are for the veteran players. The rest is for the newbies.

That's one way to look at it, sure.

 

[Erimir]

No, Melee/Brawl veterans may look at the roster and balk a little, but newcomers with Wii Us will line up in droves to buy it.

Right, but you'd likely not be wowed by Falco being an unlockable again. People new to the series would get pretty hype over that kind of stuff, though. The newcomers are for the veteran players. The rest is for the newbies.

I don't think the newcomer roster is very well chosen if it's aimed at veteran players.

I think the choices of newcomers seem to be mostly characters that have potential to bring in new fans. That's why there are so many new series. That's why there are Miis. Rosalina and Palutena add more females (so does WFT), and are new characters (yes, technically Palutena existed before, but she was a blank slate before Uprising) that can bring in fans of SMG and Uprising. Mega Man and Pac-Man, like all 3rd parties, can bring in people who aren't necessarily core Nintendo supporters.

The only character I see as solidly aimed at the Smash hardcore is Little Mac. Most of my friends (even some who are Nintendo fans) said "Who?" when I mentioned his inclusion. Obviously the other characters have at least some appeal to both crowds. Mega Man works especially well for that. The remaining Gematsu characters don't seem to add more Smash fan favorites, except maybe Shulk, who obviously is not from a series that appeals to casuals.

So I think it is valid to look at the newcomers (including Chrom, Shulk and Chorus Men) so far and say that they're kinda taking the longtime Nintendo diehards for granted - even though the Nintendo diehards are who are giving the Wii U all its sales at the moment.

And even though getting the diehards more excited isn't likely to get them to buy more games for themselves (obviously they're going to buy it anyway), getting them more excited will get them to evangelize more. So there is at least some benefit from that.

(As an aside, I think Chrom is the worst choice from a marketing perspective. I don't see who he's bringing in who's not already buying the game - the group of people who bought Awakening but no previous FE games, don't care about Marth or Ike, and would thus only buy the game if Chrom is in? How many people is that?)