51 characters total, reasoning inside.

[NintenRob]

EDIT: Below is a little outdated,


First of all,

Looking at this, I have worked out how many characters will most likely be in this game, thanks to Gemastu and the Rhythm Heaven enemy in Smash Run.

Four Rows is also a safe assumption looking at this. Brawl started with 3 rows and expanded to 4 and 5 rows would be very cramped and unnecessary.

Now in Brawl, the order characters appear on the roster is always the same no matter how many characters you have, even in its demo.
Also, this roster looks to be organised like Melee, a series by row instead of columns.

With four rows, I'm going to go through the first four quickly to get straight to row 3 where 13 columns is confirmed.

Top Row will be Mario and Metroid, with four reps already, the Zelda series won't be able to fit on the top row and will most likely begin the next row.

Ganondorf and Meta Knight are pretty certain to return, and with Palutena confirmed, thats already 11 characters. This means either Star Fox will start the next row or there are 13 columns and Wolf is cut, either way thats 13.

Now the third row is where everything happens.

The third row starts with Star Fox followed by FE then Pokemon, what does this mean? The RPG characters will be together again just like Brawl.

What does this mean?
1Fox, 2Falco, 3Wolf, 4Marth, 5Ike, 6Chrom, 7Ness, 8Shulk, 9Jigglypuff, 10Greninja, 11Lucario, 12Charizard, 13Pikachu

For this to have 12 columns, Wolf, Ness or Jigglypuff would have to be cut. Ness and Jigglypuff are original 12 and having Pokemon go from 6 to 4 is laughable. And as Gematsu is pretty much all but confirmed, we are definitely getting one of the Mother Boys.

Wolf is an important character and is far more different to Fox then Falco and Falco was already in both Melee and Brawl, we also have a new star fox game in the works and Gematsu only mentioned Lucas could get cut.


For those wandering, this leaves us with the following when we insert characters in.

Top row would have Wario and two slots not sure of, K Rool & Ridley anyone?

I put in Ganondorf and Metaknight in the second row and put Chorus Men with Villager as both are from more laid back games. This leaves one slot unsure of, Bandana Dee or Chibi Robo?

Third Row I went though.

Forth Row is everyone else.

I put Capt. Falcon next to Olimar, Ice Climbers after that, Then Little Mac and Wii Fit Trainer, Miis, R.O.B., G&W, and then confirmed third party. That leaves one more unknown slot, Snake? or a new retro character? I personally think Takamaru.


For further information, this is what the roster would most likely look like (switching some characters to suit your prediction)

And what 51 would look like in the character select screen.

Please discuss, 51 characters confirmed?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Problem is that 51 doesn't seem to fit with the 3DS screen.

47 works for both though.

 

[ShadowX39]

Remove Ridley, Waddle Dee, Takamaru and K. Rool. After E3 I'm confident in saying that minus these 4, this is the final roster. You read it here first!

 

[UpsilonFox]

Looking at the 51 slot mockup I definitely think we are getting 47 plus random button.
So if you take away Takamaru and Bandana Dee (I love Bandana Dee, but highly doubt him making the cut this time) that leaves us 2 characters over, K. Rool and Ridley. Now while I think Ridley has a high chance and K. Rool has a moderate chance, it would mean a veteran fighter would have to be cut for each one included.

This is a modified version of your roster to what I think is likely possibility for a 47 character roster:

(DICLAIMER: This roster does not necessarily reflect what I want, just what I find to be a realistic possibility)

 

[Lanog20]

Problem is that 51 doesn't seem to fit with the 3DS screen.

47 works for both though.

There you have it folks. The roster was limited because the 3DS screen cannot fit more than 47 characters on it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There you have it folks. The roster was limited because the 3DS screen cannot fit more than 47 characters on it.

Hey, I'm just stating what I've seen.

Not sure what to believe in right now.

 

[Lanog20]

Hey, I'm just stating what I've seen.

Not sure what to believe in right now.

I know, I know. Fingers crossed they make the character icons even smaller on the 3DS screen so we can have 51 spots. And am I the only one really bothered by the numbers 47 and 51? Why not 48 and 52?! WHY?!

 

[Kamiko]

I'd imagine Sakurai would just find a better way to display the characters if the traditional way got too hard to manage.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I know, I know. Fingers crossed they make the character icons even smaller on the 3DS screen so we can have 51 spots. And am I the only one really bothered by the numbers 47 and 51? Why not 48 and 52?! WHY?!

Because the random slot takes up one slot.

 

[woopyfrood]

I think trying to divine the roster via hypothetical slot arrangement is highly futile, but ultimately you've made a rather believable roster.

Except there's just one problem:

No Mewtwo.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

What if Mii replaced the random button by toggle option ?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What if Mii replaced the random button by toggle option ?

Why would it?

 

[andimidna]

How do certain numbers not fit on certain screens?...

Not getting this.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

This doesn't really prove anything, 47 characters could easily be aligned to fit within these parameters.

But I'm still hoping for more than 47.

 

[NintenRob]

Looking at the 3DS roster, I'm thinking 6 rows and 9 columns.

Looking at it, I think it will be arranged like:

First Row:
Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Rosalina, Yoshi, Dk, Diddy, K Rool

Second Row:
Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Ridley, Wario

Third Row:
Pit, Palutena, Marth, Ike, Chrom, Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Bandana Dee(That fit in TOO well)

Forth Row:
Olimar, Capt. Falcon, Ice Climbers, Takamaru, Little Mac, Fox, Falco, Wolf

Fifth Row:
Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, Jigglypuff, Ness, Shulk, Villager

Sixth Row:
MiiA, MiiB, MiiC, Wii Fit Trainer, Chorus Men, Mr Game & Watch, R.O.B., Pac Man, Megaman, Sonic, Random

3DS version would have the Miis separate, Although I see how 48 works. But that would mean Falco or Wolf is cut and I have my doubts about that. Falco is popular and Wolf is important and has no successor or comes from a series with alot of reps like Mewtwo does.

I'm still going to think 51/3 as I just don't really see Wolf going.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

How do certain numbers not fit on certain screens?...

Not getting this.

Ridley is too big to fit on either screen

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think we can't judge by roster screen size between the two games. I can't see that being a sound reason for Sakurai to not add more newcomers.

''Welp guys we can't have 49 because like ew the 3DS screen will look totally fug."

Yes, Sakurai is a valley girl. Don't question me.

 

[NintenRob]

Then again, bottom row can have 7.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Since there isn't multiple people picking characters on the 3DS' version screen, what if there are scrolling character icons or something

Like only some of the characters show up on the screen at a time and got through a menu to see more

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think we can't judge by roster screen size between the two games. I can't see that being a sound reason for Sakurai to not add more newcomers.

''Welp guys we can't have 49 because like ew the 3DS screen will look totally fug."

Yes, Sakurai is a valley girl. Don't question me.

Yeah, they could always opt for a roster which isn't a perfect square by the end of the day, like with Melee's roster which is 2 columns short in the bottom row. It's possible to make almost any roster size fit in that case, so I don't see much use in doing this kind of comparison. It's interesting to see it combined with the Gematsu leak though.

By the way, franchises aren't always pitted together in Brawl, it only really becomes organized by franchises once you have everything unlocked as evident by the starting roster:

This means that locations of franchises will likely be very different in the final version, like Metroid moving down a row once Luigi, Peach, Diddy, Wario and Yoshi are on the roster, Metroid doesn't really fit in that row tbh so it'd make more sense to have single character franchises at the end of that. Just an example of how it could change, we can't really predict it with what we currently have.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, they could always opt for a roster which isn't a perfect square by the end of the day, like with Melee's roster which is 2 columns short in the bottom row.

Those two spots are for tails and sonic

 

[ShadowX39]

By the way, franchises aren't always pitted together in Brawl, it only really becomes organized by franchises once you have everything unlocked as evident by the starting roster:

This means that locations of franchises will likely be very different in the final version, like Metroid moving down a row once Luigi, Peach, Diddy, Wario and Yoshi are on the roster, Metroid doesn't really fit in that row tbh so it'd make more sense to have single character franchises at the end of that. Just an example of how it could change, we can't really predict it with what we currently have.

Brawl organized the characters top to bottom, the more hidden came in the closer it looked to the final result, no swapping at all.

Say hello to the future folks:

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I, personally think Mii is going to take up multiple spots

They did in some Mario Kart games

 

[Diddy Kong]

Personally, am not gonna settle for any roster without at least a DKC and Zelda newcomer. Still have faith in Mewtwo and Isaac to. And I think that'll be the final roster, plus all other Gematsu leaked characters.

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

As much as I would love to see this roster end up being correct, this is all very much backwards reasoning. Like, literally backwards - Sakurai is going to build the roster based on who he thinks is worthy of being in Smash, not whether or not adding so many characters or having x number of characters in specific franchises will mess up the layout of his character selection screen. Or at least I hope that's not part of his criteria, because it would be bizarre and totally unfair XD

 

[Erimir]

If you rescale to four rows with the same aspect ratio (I downscaled exactly 75%, but my spacing is slightly off), it looks like you can't quite fit 13 rows without making the character boxes slightly narrower. But it's not by a very large margin, so it could be done without it being that noticeable a difference to fit 13 columns. It's possible what we saw in the demo wasn't the final version of the CSS as well.

4 x 12 fits easily, however. Given how neatly 47 character roster fits with the Gematsu leak, I think that's a very plausible number. Cut Snake, Lucas, Squirtle and Ivysaur, and that gives room for the 9 newcomers + the 3 more Gematsu characters. With a couple other plausible cuts (Wolf, ROB, perhaps) you could get another one or two newcomers. Perhaps we could get someone from Mewtwo, K Rool, Dixie, Ridley, Isaac, Takamaru or Bandana Dee (the non-Gematsu leak characters with the best chances, IMO).

I think it's premature to assume that the 3DS has to fit the entire roster on the screen at the same time. Because you have to remember only one person is using it.

Which means it's possible the 3DS screen could scroll and it wouldn't cause any problems for other players, and it wouldn't have to make each character box quite so tiny.

So I could also see some number between 47 and 51 possible as well. Beyond 51 is very unlikely since the whole roster needs to fit on the Wii U screen at the same time, and the screen already looks fully packed at 51.

That would allow some of the ones I mentioned above without more extensive cuts from Brawl.

I'm really hoping the Gematsu leak is not the sum of all the newcomers...

As much as I would love to see this roster end up being correct, this is all very much backwards reasoning. Like, literally backwards - Sakurai is going to build the roster based on who he thinks is worthy of being in Smash, not whether or not adding so many characters or having x number of characters in specific franchises will mess up the layout of his character selection screen. Or at least I hope that's not part of his criteria, because it would be bizarre and totally unfair XD

But that makes the erroneous assumption that we think he decided on this character select screen BEFORE he decided on the roster.

Obviously he designed the character select screen to fit the characters he put in the game. Which means the design of the character select screen indicates something about the size of the roster. If there were 60 characters, we'd probably have seen some differences in the design of the CSS, likely to make a five x twelve layout possible while maintaining the same aspect ratio.

It's possible, of course, that the shape of the boxes will change before release, or there will be five rows and just extra space on the sides, etc. Just talking about what this layout seems to indicate, plus keeping the Gematsu leak in mind. And to me, it indicates that 48 squares (one for Random) is the most likely complete layout, and 52 squares is also possible. But more than that would require changing the shape of the boxes, or ending with a non-rectangular layout. Both of those are possible, but seem less likely.

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

But that makes the erroneous assumption that we think he decided on this character select screen BEFORE he decided on the roster.

Obviously he designed the character select screen to fit the characters he put in the game. Which means the design of the character select screen indicates something about the size of the roster. If there were 60 characters, we'd probably have seen some differences in the design of the CSS, likely to make a five x twelve layout possible while maintaining the same aspect ratio.

It's possible, of course, that the shape of the boxes will change before release, or there will be five rows and just extra space on the sides, etc. Just talking about what this layout seems to indicate, plus keeping the Gematsu leak in mind. And to me, it indicates that 48 squares (one for Random) is the most likely complete layout, and 52 squares is also possible. But more than that would require changing the shape of the boxes, or ending with a non-rectangular layout. Both of those are possible, but seem less likely.

It makes the assumption that you are all making the erroneous assumption that Sakurai can't change the css suitably enough in the final build to suit his needs, and that he's absolutely tied to the format we see here in the demo I don't expect the roster to be any bigger than this, anyways, but they still have a lot of options.

To clarify, I was mainly picking at the whole "It has to be 13 columns because rpg characters and cuts and etc etc" point, although I didn't really specify that, my bad XD Ultimately, I still think they could move characters around to suit their needs, or not necessarily give us a perfect rectangle of characters, or make a 51+ roster work if they really exceeded our expectations with character count. This demo select screen doesn't strike me as completely polished, who knows how it will change? It could have just been specifically made for the demo, even.

What about that one leak that says 48 characters with 4 cuts? If Lucas does in fact get the axe, seems to me like that could be what we're seeing, unless that leak was otherwise debunked. Is it still live? That was the Mario Kart one, right? Did that stuff pan out?

 

[Phaazoid]

I, personally think Mii is going to take up multiple spots

They did in some Mario Kart games

That was only back when 2 people couldn't pick the same character, they did it so you could have 2 different people playing as mii as a time. In kart 8 there's only one mii spot,since that's not an issue anymore. And it never was in smash.

However, having a spot for gunner, brawler, and sword-er might make sense, since they are actually different fighters

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Last I've heard, the Mii takes up three roster spaces, thanks to their battle options. That pretty much messes up the 51 character theory.

 

[Phaazoid]

Last I've heard, the Mii takes up three roster spaces, thanks to their battle options. That pretty much messes up the 51 character theory.

The only reason I'd have to not believe this is they only have one spot on the dojo. But that might not mean anything


What I'd like is for the final roster to be arranged in like, a circle or something, just to mess with people

(also, that x next to Ridley on your sig is depressing )

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

The 47-51 +Random area seems pretty accurate, as far as 3DS limitations, I can see 4 rows with columns of 12's equaling 47 characters + a random option, if it was to exceed 50+ then a fifth row would have to be implemented with rows of 10's/11's which wouldn't be that bad, but could possibly be a strain on players trying to see the small boxes with their characters in them, but either or, is possible

 

[NintenRob]

Last I've heard, the Mii takes up three roster spaces, thanks to their battle options. That pretty much messes up the 51 character theory.

Didn't they say at the roundtable or something else they only take up one slot?

 

[8-peacock-8]

Why would the Mii take up three slots? If anything they'd be sharing a slot.

 

[Xhampi]

The roster would also need more space so Sakurai can include the future DLC characters mentionned by the Gematsu leak.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Why would the Mii take up three slots? If anything they'd be sharing a slot.

This, Miis having three individual slots would be so incredibly awkward. It's most likely the same as it was with Pokémon Trainer, you can choose a moveset once you're over the icon of Mii Fighter, which is the name of the Mii character to begin with, there's no reason to believe that they each have their own slot, otherwise they'd likely show so on the Dojo and wouldn't present each moveset as a sub-category under Mii Fighter in the Direct.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is just a roster prediction thread... I can just make one for my roster, then? With my reasoning for it?

It's also filled with a ton of assumptions and incorrect statements. Characters in melee did move around from the original position, we havn't seen a rectangular roster since the original (and given menu being discussed int he QandA, I can guarantee we will not see such this time, it looks terribly cluttered aesthetically)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why would the Mii take up three slots? If anything they'd be sharing a slot.

Exactly. I feel like they'd be selectable on their icon, like Zelda/ Sheik and Pokémon Trainer's Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard in Brawl.

 

[Kind Dedede]

Just realized I've over glanced something with my post, forgive the stupid.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Give or take, as of now we have pretty much 46 characters as of now,

33 confirmed by the Smash Bros website w/ at least 10 Returning Veterans including:
Capt Falcon, Wario, Ice Climbers, Ness, G&W, Falco/Wolf, Ganon, Jigglypuff, R.O.B, & Meta Knight

and the three remaining newcomers from the Getmasu Leak:
Chrom, Chorus Men/Kids, and Shulk,

so either that leaves our roster at 46 (11 more than Brawl) or it leaves the possibility of at least 1 to 5 more characters which could range from
Mewtwo, Ridley, Roy (FE), Takamaru, King K Rool, Bandana Dee, Keeping both Falco & Wolf, Keeping Lucas, Bowser Jr....etc

 

[ErenJager]

I think we know the frame work of the roster, with maybe one or two surprises and expectations in or out.