ZSS Testing Grounds

[TheZeroSuit]

ZSS TESTING GROUNDS​

Contributors: Adapt, ph00tbag, FadedImage

This is a place to post test data and help each other out with analysis. Anything to be tested, and current projects should be posted here.​

Helpful Stuff​

Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Press Start to freeze the game(don't worry, the music and sounds are unaffected).
Press Z to step through frame by frame.
Press Start again to unfreeze the game.
(The new Start command is X+D^)

Button Modifier:
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC

Must be used with the Debug Pause Code.

To test out frame data for moves, pause the game with the start button. Then hold down the button for the move you want to test (or buttons, like foward+A would be foward smash) and press Z. The move will be executed on the next frame (just like when you unpause the game while holding buttons normally).

Current Projects​

Adapt:
- Frame data for moves that are missing in the Attack Statistics Thread

Ph00tbag:
- Jab frame data and possibly analysis of what character can shield the third hit.
- Dsmash stun times (effect of damage percentage)

FadedImage:
- ??

Results​

This will be updated from time to time with whatever we discover.
If anyone want to help they can, just post here and your results will be added to the OP

 

[DeliciousCake]

Good stuff guys, looking forward to what comes out.

 

[ph00tbag]

This is what I've found of the Jab frame data so far.

Jab 1

Hitbox out:			1
Cycles after:			7
IASA:				18
1 frame buffer for jab 2:	8 - 18
(Jab 2 will begin 2 frames after input)
Jab 2 as late as:		30

Jab 2

Hitbox out:			2
Cycles back to 1 after:		10
IASA:				21
1 frame buffer for jab 3:	9 - 21
(Jab 3 will begin 2 frames after input)
Jab 3 as late as:		29

Jab 3

Hitbox out:			3
IASA:				23

Here, I have presented each jab as though it were its own animation. So if you input jab, then buffer Jab 2 on frame 8, then the second jab will be buffered through frame 9, and the animation will begin 10 frames from the first jab input. Thus, the shortest full Jabx3, starting from the first input will have the IASA frame:
0 (Jab input) + 8 (buffer Jab 2 input) + 1 (buffer frame)+ 9 (buffer Jab 3 input) + 1 (buffer frame) + 23 (Jab 3 IASA) = 42

No word yet on the extent to which it's shieldable/interruptable by other characters. I don't know the moves fall speed compensation, and I figure I may as well just test the launch speed of hits 1 and 2 on everyone, since finding that would require it anyway.

 

[Garde]

I will enjoy this greatly, I'm adding these codes into a separate code list.

 

[FadedImage]

daaamn. that makes capturing frame data so much easier. You need homebrew for this right? How hard is that to set up?

Also, when testing the whole shield the third hit of jab thing, I think DI'ing down throws a kink into that system. No matter what, the jab doesn't have enough hitstun it seems (since knockback and hitstun seem to go hand in hand, and jabs don't have knockback growth). So basically, if the first two jabs are able to pick them up off the ground long enough, they can't shield the third (from what I observe). However, DIing down would probably prevent that and allow the person to shield just fine (this has happened to me against a GaW a couple times).

Lastly, I dunno what kind of research you guys need. We still need frame data for lots of stuff, if I could get that code working I could help fill in a lot of it.

I believe full frame data is:

Hitbox out:
IASA:
Shieldstun:
Animation total:​

and with aerials add:

Auto cancel:
Landing lag:​

Plus, we could also try a "base hitstun" field. I'm assuming that hitstun is extremely similar to knockback in that it can be divided into two fields, base and growth. It'd be hard to calculate, but I'm sure we could get it eventually. (Training mode would be helpful).

 

[Adapt]

Homebrew isn't hard to set up as long as you have access to a copy of twilight princess
Follow these instructions: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199810

I cannot use that frame data code, because it is hardcoded to use a GC controller, and I do not own one. If you could pick up the frame data that I was gonna do, that would be sweet. I need to find a new project.
I may decide to get more precise launch angles (by making gravity = 0)

If you guys have a better suggestion, let me know.

 

[FadedImage]

yeah, I'm down. When I get a chance (and find an sd card) I'll hack up my system and get to it.

With frame data that precise, I would also probably test ledge stuff too. Ledge attack, ledge drops, tethers, etc.


more precise launch angles would be good. I can't think of any new stuff to test atm.

 

[ph00tbag]

I can do some of the frame data. Obviously, I've already done it for jab.

I will say, though, that animation endings aren't incredibly important, since the only frames that really matter to us are IASA, hitbox out, hitlag and shieldstun. If IASA and animation end happen to be the same, then that's just coincidence.

 

[cba]

*fidgets nervously*

 

[FadedImage]

oh yeah, I forgot about hitlag. and yeah, technically we don't need animation total, but it's not hard to find and I like to be thorough, lol.


Also, could someone test the d-smash and if it's possible to end the stun earlier by resisting? And for that matter, test if you can "wiggle" out of hitstun in general (like you could in melee). That'd make for some insane momentum cancel, wiggle + aerial + down-b, lol.

 

[Garde]

I could probably test this out tonight if I have time. If not tonight, tomorrow night.

 

[Garde]

First off, sorry for the double post, but I felt it's necessary so Faded can respond.

I didn't have time last night to check, but I want to clarify a few things that I should be looking for, Faded.

Do you want to know if the stun from the paralyzer is capable of being wiggled out of early, or the helpless state you're in when you get released from the stun?

 

[ph00tbag]

I already tested escaping dsmash hitlag, actually. It's not possible.

Or at the very least, one input does nothing.

 

[Adapt]

I didn't think it was possible to reduce the hitlag on d-smash

 

[Garde]

I was going to test two inputs per frame (a button and direction) versus no inputs at all. We don't know if there is a certain time from which it begins reading inputs to escape hitlag or not.

But you're probably right that it's not possible, otherwise people probably would've noticed by now.

 

[DeliciousCake]

From the amount of button mashing I've seen from space animal players against the d-smash chain, it most likely isn't possible.

 

[jibbyjaont]

From the amount of button mashing I've seen from space animal players against the d-smash chain, it most likely isn't possible.

Lol. Very true.

 

[FadedImage]

From the amount of button mashing I've seen from space animal players against the d-smash chain, it most likely isn't possible.

lololol

10rapedspacies


and yeah, I meant escape the actual stun earlier. But I ALSO want to know if hitstun can be wiggled out of, as in, before momentum cancelling, wiggle to allow for an EARLIER momentum cancel.

 

[Garde]

Paralyzer and d-smash stun time (which is actually just hit lag) doesn't get reduced from wiggling or mashing, which makes perfect sense since this is the only time in which you can input a direction for DI. However, this makes me curious as to whether DI reads the number of directions input or just the last direction or first direction during hitlag.

I'll see if I can test the real hitstun tonight, as well as how exactly DI input works.

 

[noradseven]

Can you guys find out if their is a flawless frame of some short in ZSS's super jump aka hit up B and jump at the same time, that makes her go even farther.

Also post the data for forward-down tilt. Thats an interesting move and Im pretty sure at low damages it has enough hitstun for a free double down-smash

 

[Garde]

For the up+B boost jump, I'm pretty sure there is only one height for the boost jump, however if you SH up+B boost jump, it may look like you get a separate height (that is, if you are boost jumping from the ground).

I can test this out, but turning tap jump on should almost always get you a just frame up+B boost jump because Brawl has a 10 frame buffer for most inputs.

I'll check out the forward-down tilt. Do you know around what % range you believe this works?

 

[ph00tbag]

Can you guys find out if their is a flawless frame of some short in ZSS's super jump aka hit up B and jump at the same time, that makes her go even farther.

Also post the data for forward-down tilt. Thats an interesting move and Im pretty sure at low damages it has enough hitstun for a free double down-smash

Not even close. The actual hitstun equation is: S = |K/165|

For Mario, let's call 'low percents' 9 - 30%.
K= |(d*26.077 + 977.54)+.5| = 1212 to 1760
S = 7 to 10 frames.

Ftilt has 23 frames of uninterruptible animation after the hitbox first comes out, and dsmash has 19 frames of start up. So unless your opponent trips, then you have a -35 to -32 frame disadvantage on a hit.

 

[Adapt]

maybe he is talking about a ftilt>trip>dsmash

I don't think that is possible either, but it's much closer

 

[ph00tbag]

maybe he is talking about a ftilt>trip>dsmash

I don't think that is possible either, but it's much closer

This one would depend on trip animations for characters. This could easily work on Falcon.

I think there are different actual trip animations, but I'd have to check. I think forced tripping looks different, and I think tripping into a force tripping move causes a different animation. Again, I'd have to look.

 

[FadedImage]

ph0000000000t what moves have you already done? I'm gonna collect some data right now, so I'm gonna start with the aerials and hope you haven't done them yet. lol


Well here's the aerials (except f-air, haven't gotten to it yet):

Hitbox: 4-?
Hitlag: 8
Shieldlag: 8
Shieldstun: 3
Autocancel: 33
IASA: 33
Landing Lag: 9

Hitbox: 10-?
Hitlag: 13
Shieldlag: 8
Shieldstun: 3
Autocancel: 41
IASA: 51
Landing Lag: 10

Hitbox: 8-?
Hitlag: 10
Shieldlag: 10
Shieldstun: 4
Autocancel: 30
IASA: 37
Landing Lag: 9

Hitbox: 14-?
Hitlag: 6
Shieldlag: 6
Shieldstun: 1
Autocancel: 49
IASA: 67
Landing Lag: 40

Hitbox: 1-?
Hitlag: 1
Shieldlag: 0
Shieldstun: 7

And also, jump stats:

1-3: Grounded (can be cancelled with u-smash/up-b/etc.)
4-5: Liftoff (no actions are possible)
6-51: Airtime (any aerial possible)
52-55: Landing animation (no actions are possible)

So basically, first 3 frames can be cancelled, 2 frames of jumping and then you're in the air for however long, and then 3 frames of landing lag.

And hey, how do you find the length of the hitbox? What I'm thinking is spotdodge while performing it or something so the opponent's invincibility ends right as the frame you want to test is going, but that sounds painstaking, is there an easier way?

 

[FadedImage]

sorry to buzump, but no one is answering my question about measuring the hitbox, HEEEEELP

 

[Adapt]

You might try setting hitstun and hitlag to zero. I think something else would have to be done though... I think there might be something preventing a hitbox from hitting more than once.

 

[ph00tbag]

ph0000000000t what moves have you already done? I'm gonna collect some data right now, so I'm gonna start with the aerials and hope you haven't done them yet. lol

Haha, I have all but the grabs. The problem is, they're all in a notebook that's in my dorm, and I'm on Spring Break. I had thought to get them all put down on my PC this week, but that fell through when I forgot the notebook. It's good that you did the aerials. I can check my data, if nothing else. Bother me on aim this coming Monday, and I'll get the data transfered into a txt file.

As far as measuring hitboxes, someone somewhere was talking about doing some kind of trigger for one frame of invincibility. I don't know if that went through. Spot dodges is all I can think of, otherwise, though.

 

[FadedImage]

Haha, I have all but the grabs.

You sick son of a *****.

I spent hours hacking my wii and getting that frame data... *sniffles*

anyways, yeah, I guess I'll get the grab data then. I'm also gonna collect random **** like "frames until side-b will grab edge", and "frames of invincibility on the edge", etc.