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ZSS Stage Discussion
- Thread starter rhfs
- Start date
Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
Great Stages
First off, yoshi's story is my favorite stage with ZSS, she can walljump back to the ledge easily, you can use randall in fun ways (like riding out to D-smash recovering opponents) and it has a good platform setup since platform pokes are ZSS bread and butter. Norfair is another interesting stage for ZSS because the side platforms can put people further out and ZSS B-air is a great side-blastline kill move, and where many characters struggle to recover on this stage ZSS can usually make it back. On Lylat cruise U-Smash is your friend since the platforms are so low (if they mash DI you can usually dash-attack them or even D-smash when they fall off the platform).
So-So Stages (or stages I'm not totally sure about)
Dracula's castle might actually be good, I'm not sure yet. Rumble falls might also actually be good, the curve sucks but the platform setup is great and ZSS's plasma wire can poke people on the high side platforms.
Really Awful Stages
Stages with curves in the main platform are awful for ZSS, and wario ware's platforms can take away most of her throw followups by granting safe haven to teching opponents.
First off, yoshi's story is my favorite stage with ZSS, she can walljump back to the ledge easily, you can use randall in fun ways (like riding out to D-smash recovering opponents) and it has a good platform setup since platform pokes are ZSS bread and butter. Norfair is another interesting stage for ZSS because the side platforms can put people further out and ZSS B-air is a great side-blastline kill move, and where many characters struggle to recover on this stage ZSS can usually make it back. On Lylat cruise U-Smash is your friend since the platforms are so low (if they mash DI you can usually dash-attack them or even D-smash when they fall off the platform).
So-So Stages (or stages I'm not totally sure about)
Dracula's castle might actually be good, I'm not sure yet. Rumble falls might also actually be good, the curve sucks but the platform setup is great and ZSS's plasma wire can poke people on the high side platforms.
Really Awful Stages
Stages with curves in the main platform are awful for ZSS, and wario ware's platforms can take away most of her throw followups by granting safe haven to teching opponents.
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Great post! I hadn't even considered some of the stages you mentioned, like Norfair. And the point about curved platforms is interested. I've had some awful matches on Metal Cavern and Skyloft but was never sure why. I wonder if it has something to do with that.
Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
As far as I have considered it, standing on the stage slopes can put an opponent just above or below the grab hitbox for ZSS, and when she whifs on a grab she whifs hard and gets punished, also stage collision with her lazers are always annoying.
Most of the so-so stages I'm not very well versed in, so they might be bad or the might be great. I think Dracula's castle has the potential to be a great ZSS stage if you can figure out how to play around the different platform arrangements right.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
**** dreamland
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
This is basically personal stage preference, but I actually like dreamland. The concrete reasons I like dreamland with ZSS are about the same as why I like dreamland with puff, although the advantages are considerably less pronounced with ZSS than with jiggs. Namely: I live silly long, I can recover well and Bair wrecks
Also, PS2 is one of my faves. The low platforms mean they can't camp on a top platform, so sh Uair and UpB are always viable to poke thru, and the stage has plenty of room to space and combo off of set ups involving the platforms. Again, personal stage preference plays a role here.
Also, PS2 is one of my faves. The low platforms mean they can't camp on a top platform, so sh Uair and UpB are always viable to poke thru, and the stage has plenty of room to space and combo off of set ups involving the platforms. Again, personal stage preference plays a role here.
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
my list is different from yours Daft. i much prefer breathing room and floorspace
so i don't rate Yoshi's story highly, nor do i rate Fountain of dreams at all.
I do however put Warioware up as one of my preferred stages though, camping under platforms and tech chasing Plasma wires is great.
agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your awful stages though.
so i don't rate Yoshi's story highly, nor do i rate Fountain of dreams at all.
I do however put Warioware up as one of my preferred stages though, camping under platforms and tech chasing Plasma wires is great.
agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your awful stages though.
Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
I prefer a Leffen ZSS approach, which is brutal shield pressure and only spacing at death pecents. That's why I think smaller stages like yoshi's island work well
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
curious, i play a much more.... 'Brawl' campier style.
what are your common stage bans?
i always end up banning yoshis/FoD and goin places like castlevania
what are your common stage bans?
i always end up banning yoshis/FoD and goin places like castlevania
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
Yoshi's Story can be good because it is so volatile, if you get what I mean. Everyone can die early on yoshi's, which I like. Also, it is short enough that paralyzer actually covers a lot of the stage length, which makes it even better for forcing reactions.
However, I sometimes consider banning it vs marth mains b/c they are often too comfortable with it. I usually leave it there, since its a good stage for both. Randall likes me; what can I say?
I would like to hear some suggested stage bans, since I do a pretty aggressive ZSS as well.
However, I sometimes consider banning it vs marth mains b/c they are often too comfortable with it. I usually leave it there, since its a good stage for both. Randall likes me; what can I say?
I would like to hear some suggested stage bans, since I do a pretty aggressive ZSS as well.
Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
my one suggested instant ban is skyloft
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
I hate that stage. Luckily everyone in my training group hates it too. We'd rather do a serious 1v1 on
. Trust me, it happened once.
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BILL?
Smash Apprentice
Also, in my experience, warioware can be pretty good for ZSS. Basically, don't use uthrow or dthrow from under those platforms; from underneath the platforms I use bthrow and fthrow to set up edgeguards and potential gimp/KO opportunities instead.
it's not my best stage with ZSS but its decent and she does better than a lot of the cast here.
it's not my best stage with ZSS but its decent and she does better than a lot of the cast here.
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Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
interestingly enough wario destroys all on that stage.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Battlefield is my favorite stage for virtually every matchup as ZSS. This is more of a personal preference. In general I detest Dream Land and other massive stages unless it is doubles or I'm fighting a character that I can heavily out maneuver and outrange like Bowser.
Roche_CL
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 410
I prefer small stages, with high ceilings.
ZSS main way of killing is sideways (Fsmash, Bair, Fair), and killing in big stages like Skyworld are a pain in the ass.
My personal favorites are Battlefield to start, and counterpick Sonic stage (green hill zone). If you can get a combo started on GHZ, you might kill him with a Fair off stage. Also its easy to follow up people that get on the plataform. You should all try it on seriouslies.
ZSS main way of killing is sideways (Fsmash, Bair, Fair), and killing in big stages like Skyworld are a pain in the ass.
My personal favorites are Battlefield to start, and counterpick Sonic stage (green hill zone). If you can get a combo started on GHZ, you might kill him with a Fair off stage. Also its easy to follow up people that get on the plataform. You should all try it on seriouslies.
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Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
Greenhill zone is good vs snake from my experience,
Oro?!
Smash Hero
If Randall didn't stop tethers from latching on to the ledge sometimes, Yoshi's would be my favorite stage in a majority of matchups.
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
maybe i value my space too much but i dread going to yoshi's.
like i fully understand why its a favourable stage but i just can't stand it.
like i fully understand why its a favourable stage but i just can't stand it.
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
I like Yoshi's a lot, it just works. I feel my ability to pressure is much better on such a small stage.
The arrangement and heights of the platforms mesh so well with her long range attacks and vertical pressure.
Bair in particular kills really early, honestly her horizontal KO power feels brutal here, especially given how fast she can rack up the % with combos.
YS and Battlefield are definitely my favorite stages with ZSS.
FoD is after that, I like the moving platforms and the smallish stage.
The arrangement and heights of the platforms mesh so well with her long range attacks and vertical pressure.
Bair in particular kills really early, honestly her horizontal KO power feels brutal here, especially given how fast she can rack up the % with combos.
YS and Battlefield are definitely my favorite stages with ZSS.
FoD is after that, I like the moving platforms and the smallish stage.
Myst007_teh_newb
Smash Journeyman
I'm a fan of PS2 for neutral picks if only because I like ZSS's combo game on long, flat stages a-la Falcon. It also gives her a decent amount of space to maneuver around if you want to play it patient with spaced paralyzers and blasters. The walls are also fairly close, which helps with converting into kills quickly.
Much hatred for Dreamland, though. The platforms are way too far apart in order to utilize them for anything useful even with slick platform movement, imo. Also up-b doesn't reach the top platform iirc.
Much hatred for Dreamland, though. The platforms are way too far apart in order to utilize them for anything useful even with slick platform movement, imo. Also up-b doesn't reach the top platform iirc.
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
Up b does reach top platform on DL64; that stage is still really bad for her. I ban dreamland and Skyloft almost always.
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Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I find stage choice to be extremely matchup dependent.
In GENERAL I like smaller stages with the typical battlefield platform layout, and this is especially true against characters with movement similar to or faster than ZSS.
However against the slower guys and fatties I actually much prefer longer stages like pokemon stadium 2 and dreamland. While ZSS doesn't really rack damage with lasers or anything, they still force people to approach and I get to abuse her mobility. I'm talking about guys like King DDD, Ganondorf, DK, Wario, Bowser, Yoshi, ect. I just really like having ample space to work with in these matchups to force people into bad angles.
I always ban Skyloft, and very often ban Skyworld too.
In GENERAL I like smaller stages with the typical battlefield platform layout, and this is especially true against characters with movement similar to or faster than ZSS.
However against the slower guys and fatties I actually much prefer longer stages like pokemon stadium 2 and dreamland. While ZSS doesn't really rack damage with lasers or anything, they still force people to approach and I get to abuse her mobility. I'm talking about guys like King DDD, Ganondorf, DK, Wario, Bowser, Yoshi, ect. I just really like having ample space to work with in these matchups to force people into bad angles.
I always ban Skyloft, and very often ban Skyworld too.
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BILL?
Smash Apprentice
FD is interesting.
Very matchup dependent, but the simplified punish game has gotten me a good number of 0>death combos, and generally has ridiculous punishes. Tech chasing on FD is easy mode. Edgeguards are also simpler without platforms. It does lose her platform pressure, and it sucks horribly against some characters, such as captain falcon. Ugh so much knee.
The ledge is a bit janky, i Used to die a lot when hit short distances from the ledge since upB does not work at vertical angles like it does on BF or SV but downB>wall jump>wall jump lets you do a stylish and effective recovery into various options to get onstage or grab edge Or downB up and backwards to jump with an upB.
Very matchup dependent, but the simplified punish game has gotten me a good number of 0>death combos, and generally has ridiculous punishes. Tech chasing on FD is easy mode. Edgeguards are also simpler without platforms. It does lose her platform pressure, and it sucks horribly against some characters, such as captain falcon. Ugh so much knee.
The ledge is a bit janky, i Used to die a lot when hit short distances from the ledge since upB does not work at vertical angles like it does on BF or SV but downB>wall jump>wall jump lets you do a stylish and effective recovery into various options to get onstage or grab edge Or downB up and backwards to jump with an upB.
indyrenegade
Smash Cadet
I find she just kind of works on the stages I already like; such as Dreamland, Delfino, Lylat, and Frigate Orpheon. I dislike Yoshi's Island and FD with her. She plays better with several platforms overhead.
Zero Suit can handle any stage with her High Jump Boots, though.
Zero Suit can handle any stage with her High Jump Boots, though.
pinkdeaf1
Smash Ace
I find that I perform better on the more open stages. However, this is an observation made while fighting luigi (the only character I ever lost to when I was at my best)
Cancel
Smash Journeyman
Thats her smash 4 look though.I find she just kind of works on the stages I already like; such as Dreamland, Delfino, Lylat, and Frigate Orpheon. I dislike Yoshi's Island and FD with her. She plays better with several platforms overhead.
Zero Suit can handle any stage with her High Jump Boots, though.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
I can't help but feel like norfair could be a bad idea sometimes. Zoot has a great recovery, but it being a tether recovery means that in most match ups the side platforms will give them recovery options you don't really have.
Shokio
Netplay 4 Days
I'm surprised nobody here mentioned Final Destination. That it my personal favorite stage for Zero Suit. I see how platform stages such as Battlefield can be good since you can Up-Smash and Up-B poke, but for me they hinder more than they do help.
I like FD because if I get an Up or DThrow, I can Up-B to bring them back down -> Jab Reset -> DSmash -> Up/DThrow -> rinse and repeat.
Sure you can Plasma Wire someone throw a platform and jump up there and grab or punish if they tech, but I find bringing them back down to me for some reset combos or tech chases much more useful. And if a Side-B is ever landed on Battlefield, I often find it hard to land a Fair or Bair follow up seeing as how opponents usually land on the left or right platforms, allowing them to escape further hits.
FD is also nicely sized stage, which I feel are best for ZSS. She's the kind of character that needs to constantly reset her space between her and the opponent. Bigger stages allow her to do this easily. They're especially good of course against slower/bulkier characters who have a hard time keeping up with her speed.
I like FD because if I get an Up or DThrow, I can Up-B to bring them back down -> Jab Reset -> DSmash -> Up/DThrow -> rinse and repeat.
Sure you can Plasma Wire someone throw a platform and jump up there and grab or punish if they tech, but I find bringing them back down to me for some reset combos or tech chases much more useful. And if a Side-B is ever landed on Battlefield, I often find it hard to land a Fair or Bair follow up seeing as how opponents usually land on the left or right platforms, allowing them to escape further hits.
FD is also nicely sized stage, which I feel are best for ZSS. She's the kind of character that needs to constantly reset her space between her and the opponent. Bigger stages allow her to do this easily. They're especially good of course against slower/bulkier characters who have a hard time keeping up with her speed.
How is WW a "Really awful stage" for ZSS. It's literally her best legal stage. Hnnnnnnnnnng.
Hawki
Smash Cadet
im also surprised that you find WW an 'awful stage'. I counterpick almost 100% to WW if it isn't banned, I find zerosuit can zone the centre very well with up airs, upsmash and nair, with platform tech chases being a breeze. The walls on either side of the stage also help in wall jump recoveries to the platforms when you feel like mixing up your recovery.