Oro?!
Smash Hero
The purpose of this thread is to analyze ZSS' usability vs. the cast. To achieve this, we must look at ZSS strengths and weaknesses reagarding said matchups, and any sort of strategic evidence that provide us with an answer about her relative strength. The purpose of this thread is not to form "x character is 60:40 vs ZSS". It is merely to identify potential strong and weak matchups, and strategies to incorporate vs these matchups.
To start with, I think it would be best to look into developed Melee characters, specifically Marth.
The Neutral Game
To understand how to fight Marth in the neutral game, you must first understand where Marth is strongest and why. Marth excels when his opponents are above him or about a swords length in front of him. Marth will look to control the ground using his dash dance, approaching with spaced dtilt or grab, and mixing up with meaty dash attack/fsmashes. Marth is, in general, put into a disadvantageous position when in the air or above his opponents, so a good Marth will generally not jump to aerial you unless you put yourself in a favorable position for Marth; ie in your shield by a ledge/under a platform. Marth can shield pretty freely vs ZSS because of the lack of guaranteed followups/positional advantages she can gain from throws. ZSS has the longest startup of any tether grab, as well as the lowest active grab hitbox frames of any tether grab. So what should ZSS be looking to do in the neutral game against Marth? In the long run it turns into a guessing game. SideB is devastating when spaced on Marth's shield as well as safe, and should be safe on whiff too. Marth can clank with sideB using jab/ftilt/fsmash, but he doesn't really gain any ground by doing so. Marth's best options vs sideB would be to get inside during the move start up and shield the weak hit->grab/upB/Fair or clank fair with sideB sweetspot. By using Fair, Marth is able to get inside ZSS' range advantage, while still holding that his sword is longer than any non sideB/grab move ZSS has. This is where the neutral game mixups occur. ZSS' blaster is relatively weak against grounded opponents. Both the strong and weak shots are easy to powershield or just block with little fear of ZSS mixups. Using liberal sideB and should force Marth to take actions that put him in positions that are vulnerable to laser combos like jumping. When playing a keep out/zoning game, this should be your go to strategy.
Since you can't abuse this tactic and outright win the match though, you need to be able to crack Marth's defenses as well as holding a wall of steel in front of yourself. On the offensive side of this matchup, you will need to look where Marth is weakest defensively. Marth is very bad when above his targets as it was pointed out above, but he is also very weak vs quick moves/crouching/opponents who are behind him. Now let's break down these options to understand why they are strong vs Marth and how ZSS can fulfill every one of those roles to successfully bully Marth. Marth has always been pretty susceptible to heavy pressure from spacies. They have so many mixups that don't even have to include shine and Marth's only reaction to them are usually WD oos-> random move(Fsmash or grab namely) or roll. This is because of how Marth's hitboxes work. The majority of them start above Marth, and swing downwards, while not having many active frames on each specific portion of the sword's swing arc. This means that Marth's fair or any downward swinging move takes longer than just the initial startup to hit a character on the ground. Everyone can abuse that fact as long as they have decently fast ground moves after aerials. Marth is notoriously bad at dealing with low crouching opponents like Puff/Sheik/ZSS!!! due to the same principals. It will take Marth's sword even longer to arc downwards to hit a crouching opponent, and may even whiff entirely if he isn't landing with the attack. If you break Marth's tipper spacing when crouched, then it leads to very reliable crouch cancel counters like dtilt at low-mid%s. Lastly, Marth's backside is very weak when he is running away or in shield. He is very susceptible to cross-ups, and this may be the easiest way to set up advantageous frame traps/positioning traps. Since Marth's strongest non WD/roll oos options are fair/nair, you are basically eliminating half of his potential defensive game just by being behind him.
What all of this boils down to is this. When you are in the neutral game vs Marth, attempt to either force bad commits from Marth by zoning with sideB/laser, and mixing up with varied rushdown comprised of laser-> nair, liberal use of jabs and down tilt, and always try to get behind Marth. Dsmash is also very safe in both the zoning game and pressure. It is longer than Marth's Fair range, so if he is being reckless you can get full punishes for him pressing buttons too liberally on offense or defense. Grab should be used sparingly, but make him respect that you have one. If Marth messes up DI on dthrow/uthrow it can lead to big damage or a kill.
I will finish some closing thoughts on neutral game, as well as adding Stage/Combo/Edgeguard knowledge when I get a chance later. Please post any thoughts in any portion of the matchup if you believe you have any evidence to support it.
Stage Selection
Marth is definitely a character you want space to move around with while fighting. You have superior speed and mobility just through your dash and hooligan. Other than stage size, the biggest thing to consider would be platform height/number of platforms. Marth obviously has the best time with platforms that he is able to easily control fully. This means avoid Yoshi's, FoD, PS1, and potentially Battlefield. Marth is also notoriously strong on FD if he is able to frequently get you above him. Stages that have long walls such as Green Hill Zone and Dracula's can definitely aid ZSS recovery, and don't provide Marth with significant advantages other than GHZ being relatively small. You may want to consider taking Marth to Dreamland, PS2, Rumble Falls, or Dracula's. As for stage striking, I feel like ZSS' strongest neutrals in the matchup are PS2/Dreamland/FD so avoid striking those. Strike FoD/Yoshi's and if it's a choice between BF and Smashville, I personally feel ZSS has a better time on BF for mobility reasons even though Marth can use the bottom platforms effectively, but between SV/BF it is most likely just player preference.
EdgeguardingMarth is way harder to edgeguard for a lot of characters in PM relative to Melee. There is no longer the lightshield edgehog that plagued Marth players. If you plan on going offstage to aggressively pursue Marth, wait for him to use dancing blade before you throw out moves. If Marth doesn't bite it is usually in your best interest to just return to ledge/stage because Marth has quite a lot of turnaround potential if he catches you offstage. When on stage, use small blaster shots to disrupt his high recovery and try to limit his recovery options. If Marth is forced to recover low you have to make a decision to either grab the ledge or trying to DSmash his upB (DSmash doesn't hit sweetspots). If Marth goes to stage and you are on the ledge, he has enough land lag for you to Waveland-> turn around DSmash, but the window is very tight. I have not found a super reliable way to edgeguard Marth yet outside of these base guidelines.
As far as combos/setups go, there are not many % specific combos in Melee/PM outside of throws, and I do not have this information developed yet.
To start with, I think it would be best to look into developed Melee characters, specifically Marth.
The Neutral Game
To understand how to fight Marth in the neutral game, you must first understand where Marth is strongest and why. Marth excels when his opponents are above him or about a swords length in front of him. Marth will look to control the ground using his dash dance, approaching with spaced dtilt or grab, and mixing up with meaty dash attack/fsmashes. Marth is, in general, put into a disadvantageous position when in the air or above his opponents, so a good Marth will generally not jump to aerial you unless you put yourself in a favorable position for Marth; ie in your shield by a ledge/under a platform. Marth can shield pretty freely vs ZSS because of the lack of guaranteed followups/positional advantages she can gain from throws. ZSS has the longest startup of any tether grab, as well as the lowest active grab hitbox frames of any tether grab. So what should ZSS be looking to do in the neutral game against Marth? In the long run it turns into a guessing game. SideB is devastating when spaced on Marth's shield as well as safe, and should be safe on whiff too. Marth can clank with sideB using jab/ftilt/fsmash, but he doesn't really gain any ground by doing so. Marth's best options vs sideB would be to get inside during the move start up and shield the weak hit->grab/upB/Fair or clank fair with sideB sweetspot. By using Fair, Marth is able to get inside ZSS' range advantage, while still holding that his sword is longer than any non sideB/grab move ZSS has. This is where the neutral game mixups occur. ZSS' blaster is relatively weak against grounded opponents. Both the strong and weak shots are easy to powershield or just block with little fear of ZSS mixups. Using liberal sideB and should force Marth to take actions that put him in positions that are vulnerable to laser combos like jumping. When playing a keep out/zoning game, this should be your go to strategy.
Since you can't abuse this tactic and outright win the match though, you need to be able to crack Marth's defenses as well as holding a wall of steel in front of yourself. On the offensive side of this matchup, you will need to look where Marth is weakest defensively. Marth is very bad when above his targets as it was pointed out above, but he is also very weak vs quick moves/crouching/opponents who are behind him. Now let's break down these options to understand why they are strong vs Marth and how ZSS can fulfill every one of those roles to successfully bully Marth. Marth has always been pretty susceptible to heavy pressure from spacies. They have so many mixups that don't even have to include shine and Marth's only reaction to them are usually WD oos-> random move(Fsmash or grab namely) or roll. This is because of how Marth's hitboxes work. The majority of them start above Marth, and swing downwards, while not having many active frames on each specific portion of the sword's swing arc. This means that Marth's fair or any downward swinging move takes longer than just the initial startup to hit a character on the ground. Everyone can abuse that fact as long as they have decently fast ground moves after aerials. Marth is notoriously bad at dealing with low crouching opponents like Puff/Sheik/ZSS!!! due to the same principals. It will take Marth's sword even longer to arc downwards to hit a crouching opponent, and may even whiff entirely if he isn't landing with the attack. If you break Marth's tipper spacing when crouched, then it leads to very reliable crouch cancel counters like dtilt at low-mid%s. Lastly, Marth's backside is very weak when he is running away or in shield. He is very susceptible to cross-ups, and this may be the easiest way to set up advantageous frame traps/positioning traps. Since Marth's strongest non WD/roll oos options are fair/nair, you are basically eliminating half of his potential defensive game just by being behind him.
What all of this boils down to is this. When you are in the neutral game vs Marth, attempt to either force bad commits from Marth by zoning with sideB/laser, and mixing up with varied rushdown comprised of laser-> nair, liberal use of jabs and down tilt, and always try to get behind Marth. Dsmash is also very safe in both the zoning game and pressure. It is longer than Marth's Fair range, so if he is being reckless you can get full punishes for him pressing buttons too liberally on offense or defense. Grab should be used sparingly, but make him respect that you have one. If Marth messes up DI on dthrow/uthrow it can lead to big damage or a kill.
I will finish some closing thoughts on neutral game, as well as adding Stage/Combo/Edgeguard knowledge when I get a chance later. Please post any thoughts in any portion of the matchup if you believe you have any evidence to support it.
Stage Selection
Marth is definitely a character you want space to move around with while fighting. You have superior speed and mobility just through your dash and hooligan. Other than stage size, the biggest thing to consider would be platform height/number of platforms. Marth obviously has the best time with platforms that he is able to easily control fully. This means avoid Yoshi's, FoD, PS1, and potentially Battlefield. Marth is also notoriously strong on FD if he is able to frequently get you above him. Stages that have long walls such as Green Hill Zone and Dracula's can definitely aid ZSS recovery, and don't provide Marth with significant advantages other than GHZ being relatively small. You may want to consider taking Marth to Dreamland, PS2, Rumble Falls, or Dracula's. As for stage striking, I feel like ZSS' strongest neutrals in the matchup are PS2/Dreamland/FD so avoid striking those. Strike FoD/Yoshi's and if it's a choice between BF and Smashville, I personally feel ZSS has a better time on BF for mobility reasons even though Marth can use the bottom platforms effectively, but between SV/BF it is most likely just player preference.
EdgeguardingMarth is way harder to edgeguard for a lot of characters in PM relative to Melee. There is no longer the lightshield edgehog that plagued Marth players. If you plan on going offstage to aggressively pursue Marth, wait for him to use dancing blade before you throw out moves. If Marth doesn't bite it is usually in your best interest to just return to ledge/stage because Marth has quite a lot of turnaround potential if he catches you offstage. When on stage, use small blaster shots to disrupt his high recovery and try to limit his recovery options. If Marth is forced to recover low you have to make a decision to either grab the ledge or trying to DSmash his upB (DSmash doesn't hit sweetspots). If Marth goes to stage and you are on the ledge, he has enough land lag for you to Waveland-> turn around DSmash, but the window is very tight. I have not found a super reliable way to edgeguard Marth yet outside of these base guidelines.
As far as combos/setups go, there are not many % specific combos in Melee/PM outside of throws, and I do not have this information developed yet.
