ZSS Handbook, a basic guide to ZSS playing

[noradseven]

If you are new to smash in general, or if you haven't really played outside of your small group of friends watch these tutorials they start out pretty simple but they teach you pretty much everything you need to know to get started. http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2008/11/9/smash-bros-brawl-tutorial-videos.html

Since we don't have a ZSS guide anywhere near in date for new players, or just people who want to pick her up I thought I would start one.

Okay first of all, so you want to try to learn Zero Suit Samus, either because you like a tactical character that has lots of options, a difficult character that not many people play *puts on shades, a or maybe her sexy hotness with that whip just turns you on I don't know.

But here is a forewarning, ZSS isn't a character that you can just win with even if you are extremely good and no she isn't a secret top tier in disguise, mid tier probably, high ehhh kinda iffy.

Now before you start reading my opinions which is what they are, many of her moves are weird and take some getting used to how they hit.

But before we get into that you should understand her basic recovery methods, because if you don't die you will win.

Surviving:
ZSS is actually a great survivalist, this is one of the most common misconceptions people have about her.

When getting knocked back mash u-air, on the c-stick and DI towards the stage, even with your light weight ZSS shouldn't start dying until around 100%, and it is very possible to survive to 200% and higher if you carefully avoid killing blows.

You can boost jump the up B giving you a second jump comparable to ness's or lucas's in height, you boost jump by pressing both jump and up B at the same time.

Go on your wii now and press jump and up B at the same time, see great for recovering.

*tip All tethers in Brawl only grab the edge 3 times until you need to stand on a platform again before it will work again.

*tip2 up B comes out fast enough you can survive pretty much every spike in the game with a reaction upB, until around 120%, except ganon's which you can survive until ~50%

You can also grab the edge of over B, but it has a different angle that it allows you to grab with, so its useful in its own way.

Down B is your ace in the hole recovery move, it grants a small amount of invulnerability about start to when you reach the peak of your jump, and best of all it has a special head tap go down to the topic on Down B to read more about it. This move is mostly used for beating the opponents edge guard by either going though there attack or head tapping their edge guard.

Another thing you can do with down B is grab an edge press away from it down B towards it and grab it again, its very fast and extremely safe, a great way to edge stall for a moment.

Also forward roll rules use it.


ZSS Defense:

Shield: Her shield is bad Im not going to lie, and their isn't much you can do to get out of shield pressure, her jab, and d-tilt, sometimes u-tilt are her best pokes out of it, but normally you want to wait to be able to shorthop dodge away.

Backroll: It's bad a slow back roll that doesn't have many inviblity frames and doesn't go far, just add this too the banned moves list its terrible. See front roll if you want to effectively backroll

Frontroll: It's fast very fast, and one of the best rolls in the game, if you are facing away from your opponent it is a good option to take, rolling behind the opponent however is risky as always, but with ZSS's speed it can be p. amazing.

*tip : If you want to effectively backroll dash backwards then after a short moment front roll the way you are running, you shouldn't really see a run just a long f-roll. Its faster has more invincibility frames and goes farther than backroll.

like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmC8qOwtf8c , its crappy quality sorry, but I show both the normal back roll and the pivot f-roll just so you can see the difference.

Sidestep: Pretty standard sidestep quick short too the point.

Air-dodge: ZSS has a fairly quick air dodge, which in my opinion is mostly a plus.

*tip try not to be ever in a position where you need to block something and get good at PS strong hits because your shield will be poked pretty easily.

*tip 2 down B is sometimes a good option to escape shield pressure due to its invulnerable startup.


The Sexy/Holy Four: f-air, back-air, u-air, over-B, these are the 4 moves that you will be using the most, that's not to say some other moves aren't extremely good, useful or necessary such as down B, but we will get to that later.

F-Air(FINISHING MOVE): This move is amazing it hits twice has a pretty solid hit box, if you land both hits it does great damage, comes out fast, and is safe, this move and the other holy four are your best pokes for fishing for a hit. This move is useful in many situations, when the opponent is approaching you, running away, standing there, jumping, looking at you funny, dying, I really don't know why you shouldn't be doing this move.

Watch out though because f-air lasts for a decent bit of time and a lot of characters can out prioritize it if they see it, but most characters can do very little when they are in the air

*tip1 to connect both hits do the move while moving forward
*tip2 you can use this move castlevania style aka jump forward f-air, while moving backwards, its an amazing anti jump poke.

Back-Air: (FINISHING MOVE) Not to

but this move rocks, alot more than most people give it credit for

This is your longest range air attack outside of over B, comes out fast, one of your primary killing tools, good damage safe on block (usually), high priority beats the tornado, my personal favorite move for anti-ground pressure.

tip1: Use this move while fastfalling I mean it, c-sticking makes it easier too.
tip2: When hit close to the body the move gets reversed aka hits the opposite direction for slightly more knock back, can often be useful for killing at the end of a d-smash.

U-Air: (FINISHING MOVE) This is a pretty straight forward move, its fast very fast and has good range, I don't know what else to say , just think of it like another marth u-air but faster, or like a MK u-air but with better range.

Its also the move you spam to slow yourself down.

Over-B: (FINISHING MOVE) Most ZSS players I see starting out with her over use this move, this move can be good in the right hands but because of its gaping deadzone, and its somewhat slow speed it isn't as abusable as many would think.

That being said, how to use Over-B (far hit only)
When the opponent is on the stage in neutral position, do not jump and through out an over B while moving forward its just bad.

Preferable do over B while moving backwards, its amazingly safe and, has a good chance of smacking anyone who tries to chase to much.

Once you get good at spacing it, try to aim right in front of or on the very front portion of their shield, so that it is barely nicked this of course is for safety.

Over-B is also amazing at chasing people off the edge, with most characters and because of ZSS's great recovery, you are often free to fish for hits with over B before, they start making their way back to the stage.

How to use Over-B (close), aka the one,two,punch
The close hit is right in front of the blaster itself, and its a decent size.

This is where over-B gets tricky the first hit of over-B is alot risker but it has many advantages.
1) Its faster
1a) Its deceptive (aka its hard to see coming till its too late).
2) Can be used to clash with a projectile/or hit(hard), and finish with an over B far when they are still in the projectile animation.
3) It's Amazing Wavebounced
4) More damage ha (like 2-3%)
5) Amazing shield pressure, if properly spaced at the very edge of its hit box you can force the opponent to shield both the first and second hit on the vast majority of the cast, making it safe in case the mixup fails.

The close version should be reserved for a mixup in most cases catch your opponent with it when you are under pressure to reverse momentum. Such as you are running away from the opponent they whiff a move wham wave bounce this sucker into their face.

The other amazing use is clashing with projectiles this may seem somewhat easy but it can be difficult, and if you master it you can make projectile camping alot more difficult for some characters, though it will not work on blasters, or needles.

*tip don't forget this move can be used as a tether recovery.


Standard moves:

jab AA......A: I am personally not a huge fan of this move but it does have its plus's, the main issue with this move is that the third hit of the move is auto power shielded(so if the opponent is getting hit and is holding guard he will PS the last hit ) and even if it isn't powershield'd it is a slight disadvantage on block.

There is a ~solution to this which is to slightly delay the third hit the gambol is that the opponent might predict this and strike back, but they will not get a PS, if they keep guarding so yay.

Also the first hit comes out in 1 frame, yeah 1 frame blam, its good in a few circumstances for this alone jab, jab, run away, good at beating some other speedy moves.

Each move is its own move in the degrasion stack see later, so just 1 or 2 reps of this and most of your moves are fresh again, that is the main reason why I use it.

*tip: you know snakes f-tilt, it jabs out between the first and second on regular block.

Dash Kick: Interesting move it comes out very fast for a dashing attack, and sudo combos into u-tilt, giving it some points right there, however normally unsafe on block.

However on characters that have difficulty fighting people behind them you can dash past the person using this attack and land behind them, experiment a bit, if they twitch u-tilt it works more than it should, or you can forward roll, which is an amazing move.


U-Tilt: 2 hits, 3 frame start up, hits on both sides, launches, decent damage, what is not to like, often a good move to use when your back is to the opponent at close range and they think you are ripe for the pickings. NOT SAFE ON BLOCK, its p. much a light shoryuken for all purposes really fast nice priority, good hitbox very unsafe if it doesn't connect. Has nice follow up stuff too.

*tip: Use this on scrubs who like to stand on top of you on wakeup.

D-Tilt: Solid poke, safe on block, fast, good hit stun, launches, use alot.

*tip: When standing or connecting from an air move only slightly move the d-stick down then press it so you will instantly go into a d-tilt, instead of the 3frame crouch animation then d-tilt, this gives you an extra 1/20th of a second which will help stuff a lot of out of block moves.


D-smash: Also way over used for beginners, this move is good granted, but its certainly punishable and its not extremely hard to evade. Great to throw out to fish for a hit when people are about to grab the edge for a quick down B spike.

This move should mostly be used for fear, to stop an opponent from doing something but if you do get a hit.

d-smash->jabx2->crouch cancel->jabx2->f-air (descale combo)
_______->down B (spike, also scream out ARE YOU OKAYYY, BUSTA WUULF)
_______->d-smash->grab->d-toss
_____________________->f-toss
________________->f-air
________________->b-air(normally reversed, aka hitting backwards)
________________->over B(first hit,into second hit)
________________->fastfall n-air(specific req for this one)

I will talk about this more, when I get to strategy.

D-Air: The D in D-air stands for Don't use often. It has high priority again beats tornado, but its slow very unsafe, and will suicide if off the edge unless you are crazy high in which case it will cancel, it is sometimes useful for getting to the ground fast against someone who chased to too high.

It can be auto canceled at extremely low highs as well, used in the Rob infinite.

Neutral-Air: This move is very complex and confusing and I suggest you look at the n-air Nega thread for more details.

The gist of this move is high priority, weird angle, has alot of active frames/Meaty/will hit for a long time, and great hit stun, did I mention it doesn't degrade(also not added to stack which kinda sucks but ohh well)

One problem it has a slow startup and its range is not good but the weird angle makes up for that, because of its high hitstun you can often land hits like jab, f-tilt, and f-air after, it, and in some situations you can hit even d-smash.

My favorite usage of this move is for tossing out as an anti-jump pressure move to keep people away.

Up-B: It has this great loop that goes between up B and d-smash for a long time<--no it doesn't trust me it doesn't work not even a little bit your wrong.

This moves main purpose is still recovering. Primarily boost jumping

This move can be used for dodge baiting, because of its great reach most people will dodge this move, and you can often predict this and punish the dodge.

If it connects you can always try to connect an u-air or b-air but 90% of the time the opponent will be falling to fast or will be able to dodge in some way shape or form but sometimes they don't so hurray. It will readily connect into u-tilt though.

Neutral B: I don't use this move much, due to the fact that over B is often better but it has its use in a few matches, and on certain levels, mostly while in a very defensive position playing another defensive character. Slow, short range unless charged, often punishable on Powershield, but if it hits you get pretty much a free running A into a u-tilt, or jab

Common tactic is to hug the edge full jump 1/2 charge B and fire and grab the edge again.

edit: after talking to some other players they seem to use the short charge one similarly to the over B as in short hop back, neutral B, to fish for hits which makes more sense, and it can also be used to bait shields for a quick grab.
Down B: (FINISHING MOVE) This move is amazing, I debated putting it in the holy 4 because of how great it is but alas its not really spam able.

It is a amazing recovery tool, and has a special head tap, a decent bit of invulnerability on startup and the second hit does great knock back/ spikes, can be used to grab edge.

Its often combined with a off the edge d-smash for a spike finish.

Special head tap what, go to battle field have someone stand on a platform down B with your body touching them at least a bit and hit up, special tap jump even better you can do it in different directions just tap up at a diagonal.

*tip can be done off items, including armor pieces, grenades, turnips, bombs, and over b thrown pikmen.

*tip2 you can also wall tap this move in which case the move just starts over again, but jumping off the wall.

*tip3 its invulnerability allows it to be used for countering slower recoverying moves and as an escape mix up.

Warning can only be used once until you touch the stage again, it doesn't refresh.

Grab: its a whip grab, kinda slow, huge dead zone, but then again you have some chessy combos with it, and being a whip grab it has good range, normally after connecting jab a few times then either d-toss or f-toss, depending upon preference, both are good, and very stage/character/player dependent.

Its normally better to do her running grab it makes the effective range a good deal longer.


The Forbidden Ones:
Don't get in the habit of using these they have very few if any practical purpose.

f-tilt: I used to think it was great, but alas time has shown, me it just doesn't have any purpose when I could be doing either jab or d-tilt instead.

The down version of the move has better hitstun and a lower trip chance.

*This move has a p. good trip chance and at very low damages a trip connects into a d-smash, so make what you will.

Its only real use is when someone just rolled behind you and are out of your range, for a u-tilt, and a over B will be too slow.

The up version is your second best, on the ground anti-air, but with u-smash as #1, and all your good anti air, air moves, not much of a point of this either.

Sometimes usable for punishing roll, the down version preferably

f-smash: Just no I have heard many reasons on why you should use this move, but most of the time, you could of used something else instead that was just as good or better. The main advantages of this move are great hit box, lasts forever, always fresh haha.
The problem, very slow, and punishable on anything sometimes even hit.

Can be used as a killing blow on a d-smash not recommended,

Also can be used as an easy way to hit someone during the landing vulnerability due to how long it lasts.

Also a great move to mess with people and be a jerk in casuals.

 

[noradseven]

*tip: Don't suddenly play differently because you are about to lose your last life, now it is okay to change tactics based off your damage, aka high risk high reward at low damage and a more safe game at higher damages. But if you think X strategy is the best for your survival when you are at 120% damage on your last life you should be using the same one every time your at 120% damage. I have seen so many players do miraculously better on their last life, just always pretend its your last life.

Beginning of a Match (Items): Okay I just started the game with ZSS, OMG items but I'm so light, I am just going to toss them off the edge... WRONG. <--- Don't do that in most cases being a ZSS player you will have far more experience with items than your opponent and in a good players hands her armor pieces are deadly tools of destruction, and in some match ups can sometimes net you a free kill.

*tip Don't forget you can down B special head tap off your armor pieces, so if you are off the edge and someone chucks one at you please do this and don't just get hit by it and die.

*tip2 by c-sticking you "smash" throw the item making it go farther and have more knockback

A common and suggested tactic is right at the beginning of a match to grab one armor piece and c-stick it up, sometimes you should do this with two pieces, or you can opt to throw one up, throw 1 forward grab the last and glide toss forward, if you don't know what glide tossing is you didn't watch the tutorials I told you to at the beginning so go back and watch it.

After you glide tossed item hits the openent probably did one of 4 things
1) They blocked, normally your best bet here is d-smash or possibly a shorthop away over B to drain the shield some more, and fish for a hit. Also if they get too used to this grab can work even better.
2) They jumped, either f-air, or shorthop over B should take care of this.
3) They dodged/grabbed the item, d-tilt or jab, and sometimes dash is what works well here.
4) They got hit, okay pick up your item again and keep on the pressure, often times baiting them to dodge then toss the item again, a few armor piece hits on some characters can spell the end of a stock.

*tip3 Be warned Peach, Link, TL, Diddy players are often very good at item play, sometimes snake but due to the weird properties of his projectiles its not as common.

The best bet here is just too experiment, and try to find which style best fits you just constantly keep in mind where your armor pieces are, playing against diddy's will greatly help your item control as well so find a friend.

I suggest playing FFA's with your friends with items on, first of all because its fun, second of all because it really helps with item control. Also turn off spring,curry,heart if you want to play SRK rules.

*tip: The armor pieces have a hitbox any time they are bouncing, so especially if smash attacked down, they can be used as somewhat of a temporary wall, be wary though because your opponent could grab them.

*tip: You can still use all your B moves while holding an item, when you are down to the last armor piece you can just hold it around for just sheer sake of fear tactics.

edit: I could definitely use some more tactics people use for items here if anyone is willing to share.


The Rest of the Match (items gone)
There are 4 kinds of gameplay that can be going on. (holds true for all fighters, infact games for that matter, hell even real life sports.)

A) Neutral this position means that neither player is at the advantage and you are both fishing for hits, normally you should shoot for a counter towards the safest option right at the beginning but don't make it obvious pretend that you are fishing for hits or feint a rush down so you can bait him normally just rushing him down will get you killed against competent players, just think what would you do.

B) You are in control of the game, at this time, space is more important that damage, keeping control of the game is far more important that doing hits, it demoralizes the opponent, fatigues them mentally, and provides many more opportunity for you to land hits while giving the opponent, very few chances. ZSS is extremely good at this.

C) Opposite of the above situation your primary goal should be to escape pressure not to give/take damage, just don't die and reset to A, or D, or even better B

D) This rarely happens in brawl, its where both characters are in control of the game, and are having a very vicious fight at close range with no hits connecting that effect space control, normally in most fighters, is a clash/parry/auto-guard/counter/super armor, fight.

*tip: Avoiding death is still preferred because position is set to A when you die, and sometimes can be turned into B, but only against scrubs or on certain stages.

The cool thing is with ZSS because of the items normally after your items are gone the match is in B which is ZSS's speciality.

Position B :
This is ZSS's area of expertise, between her f-air, over B, and u-air, she can make getting the game back to normal a complete and total nightmare, your main goal against most characters should be to push them off the edge high, and chase them with over B's and f-airs, and if they try to escape from above you fast falling u-airs are often the solution, normally if played correctly when the position is in B you will net an average of 40% damage taken and around a 20%-25% chance of a early kill.

There isn't much else to say about this match just remember don't let them get out of pressure its very match specific and intuitive and needs a lot of practice.

Good ways to setup this position is an f-toss near an edge, any f-air connect, or an over B/back air near the edge, u-airs can work too but its very character dependent, such as on Snake yes, Lucario not really.


Position A :

This is the trickiest state, this is when you are both staring down at each other not knowing what to do. Now Im going to go a bit technical on you for a moment.

First of all you know that moves degrade over use right, well this is how it works.
The 9 most recently used moves are kept in a stack when you use another move the oldest one is knocked out, moves can exist in the stack as many times as you have used them. The more that are in the stack the more degraded the move becomes.

This explains why the d-smash descale combo is good because it contains 7 hits almost entirely refreshing your stack, also a reason why jab is so good.

Now remember moves are only added to the stack when they connect or are blocked whiffing them does nothing, also remember neutral air cannot go in the stack and has no effect on it as well when used.

PM me if you need more explanation on it.

The reason why I said all of this is because part of your mix up game should be trying to keep at least 1-2 of your kill moves fresh at all time, while still changing up the pressure.

Lets start going though all the standard pressure methods. These methods effectiveness with greatly depend on the skill of the player and the opponents character and field, such as evasive works magic on stages like jungle japes.


1) Evasive: Works best against people without spammy projectiles

In this style you will be running away a lot doing over B, and when approaching the edge a quick jump over the head with some back air to stuff any punishes normally allows you to keep running away.

Using neutral airs is very important, for stuffing dash attacks(which counter this tactic), and jumping attacks.

Basically your fishing for hits and trying to aggravate the opponent into messing up.

Killing moves usage(except down B)
Very little of u-air and f-air.
Medium usage of back air.
High usage of over B


2) High Pressure: Probably the best strategy against people with low priority and or lack or swords/huge range.

In this style you will be using primarily, your back air, f-air, d-tilt, d-smash, and jab to shut the opponent down and keep him cowering in one spot.

By this point you should be very comfortable with fast falled b-airs, be ready to do them earlier in case people jump. This move will be used alot in this style

F-air is a weird one pretend you are playing castlevania, full jump forward f-air and fall back wards, or follow through and jump over occasionally.

D-tilt and jab are both great for when the opponents get to close.

D-smash is another great move to use after pressuring them with back air and f-air a lot.

Neutral air can be used just like in the last one to stuff jump outs.

Killing moves usage(except down B)
Very little of over B
Medium usage of up air
High usage of b-air,f-air


3)Cross-up/mixup: This style is more for throwing people off by being unpredictable: and is most style C you can get with ZSS.

Basically be random throw out dash attacks, pivot grabs, repeated jump over their head and toss out back airs, and sometimes just plain jump and do nothing, well timing d-smash's and neutral B's can really dominate the opponent, sometimes throw out over-B's(1st hit).

Use a decent bit of f-roll to get behind the opponent in this one too.

Killing move usage(except down B)
very little usage: f-air
medium usage: u-air,over B
high usage: b-air


4)Counter: Its the basic reaction to what other people do, having a fast reaction time is good, for this.

Mostly abuse dashing u-smash and u-tilt, and u-air for anti air, u-tilt being the fastest u-air being the most accurate.

Also well timed jabs, and d-tilts, and really abuse your f-roll, your also going to want to use some over-B(close) for stuffing predictable approaches.

Killing move usage(except down B)
very little usage: b-air, f-air
medium usage: over B
high usage: u-air

I honesty wouldn't recommending doing this for very long but if someone is overly aggressive you can just play counter hits for a while like this, I tend to be able to do this a lot against Marth players.


Position C : In this state like I said before you shouldn't be aiming for damage but merely to re leave pressure, and get it back to A or B if you are lucky.

Tools of the trade:
Jab: Okay this move comes out in 1 frame making it the fastest move in the game a lot of peoples jab combos, when blocked can easily be poked out of between hit 2 and 3, especially because a lot of people like to crouch cancel back to the first one, you can. This can also make people more afraid of keeping you under pressure in the future.

d-tilt: You go low very low low enough to make some moves whiff plus d-tilt is a nice move.

u-tilt:best used on wake up or against people that are just too **** close that, are possibly even behind you.

F-roll or (pivoted/backdashed)f-roll: seriously its fast, and can help relive some pressure.

Down B: More of the surprise turn around because it can be dangerous for both players, the invulnerability on startup is amazing against moves that take too long to recover, but if predicted you can be put in some serious trouble.

Like I said you arn't going for damage just trying to escape pressure, and possible reverse it.


Position D : In the one in a million chance this occurs, its a similar strategy to position C, fast pokes, aka jab and d-tilt. I seriously don't really expect this to happen much in brawl but if it does, just follow my advice and go for jabs,d-tilts, and maybe a u-tilt, it will not last long IF it even occurs.

 

[noradseven]

List of amazing combosthat don't actually work:


D-smash, up B infinite: So just no, you can tech, you can SDI, hell you can regular DI.

up B on platform infinite: Basically go to halberd stand under platform, place opponent above you spam up B sorry it doesn't work, easily DI'ed or SDI'd out of though characters like bowser/DDD can be hit by it 1-2 times in a row. But you are far better off using that huge hit stun to do something else, like f-air.

Head tap infinite on everybody: Sorry Rob only will discuss later, or you can just look around.

Cake combo(some heathens call it the claw combo): The opponent can almost always dodge, or attack before your move hits or they will go to far, basically it just caught people off guard, though there are a few very specific times when it is inescapable.

Will probably put up more but I can't think of any others at the moment.

 

[noradseven]

reserved for next stuff, this should be all the space I need

 

[ohaiduhg]

Now before you start reading my opinions which is what they are, many of her moves are weird and take some getting used to how they hit.

This isn't so much of a Handbook as it is an opinion column on the moves of ZSS.

You need to proof read a lot of this through. "could of" and "sudo"

Credibility is lacking, imo. Videos? Is this open or closed for discussion?

I'm just saying all this "as is" this will all be worked out correct correct?

 

[Nefarious B]

If you get permission from the thread OPs you could include their stuff in here so when people do come looking for a guide they have it in one spot. We can still use their threads for specifically discussing their stuff, but it would help centralize the mess of threads.

 

[DeliciousCake]

If you get permission from the thread OPs you could include their stuff in here so when people do come looking for a guide they have it in one spot. We can still use their threads for specifically discussing their stuff, but it would help centralize the mess of threads.

That's what the Resource Center is for.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

Kind of interesting that you list ftilt under "Forbidden" when there's a current thread trying to determine if it has any usefulness ^0^

 

[noradseven]

I was going to go in more detail in a more simplified version of the upshot of most of the stuff in the resource center more in the tactics/tech section.

Also I'll eventually plan on shortening my blathering on the moves, I tend to write a bunch of **** down then erase a bunch of stuff.

This isn't so much of a Handbook as it is an opinion column on the moves of ZSS.

You need to proof read a lot of this through. "could of" and "sudo"

Credibility is lacking, imo. Videos? Is this open or closed for discussion?

I'm just saying all this "as is" this will all be worked out correct correct?

I know I will get to it I am in college, I was already planning on revising it alot, my rough drafts of everything are terrible.

As far as an opinion column I have seen the way other brawl forums do guides and they contain alot of extra information that can be figured out on your own, in about 5 seconds, so the most important part is how good the move is and when you should use it, though if anyone has an AR, and can post images of the hit boxes of the moves especially some like neutral air and over B it would be very helpful. Plus while I give my opinion I tried to list all the typical good uses for a move, which is probably the most important part of learning any character in brawl.

But as far as sudo and could of, its because its not a true combo, it just is a good pressure string, that isn't really punishable, and is very difficult/situational to escape, or could be stage/character specific, and putting down a huge list of characters it works on and the percentages is just a bit much.

For videos I will probably steal from match videos on youtube, with the new being able to pick what time to start it shouldn't be too hard.

Plus look at how most basic guides are done I can put damages up if people need them but with the degrading and stuff its, more of a better idea to constantly change moves.

This stuff is totally open for suggestions, such as if someone actually finds a use for f-tilt, a good one then it will go off the bottom 2, I just put them like that so that beginners know what they should be using alot, and what they should be avoiding.

Credibility, well I mean I mostly know what I'm doing aka dominate small local tourneys, and do good/beat people ranked high in the state somewhat consistently, but due to lack of funds I don't go to many high paying tourneys, though maybe I can hitch a ride to some one coming up soon. Also I have been respected in a few other fighting game communities for being good at helping out beginners, and I have taught many people to play brawl and well, in just under a month.

 

[ohaiduhg]

I was going to go in more detail in a more simplified version of the upshot of most of the stuff in the resource center more in the tactics/tech section.

Also I'll eventually plan on shortening my blathering on the moves, I tend to write a bunch of **** down then erase a bunch of stuff.



I know I will get to it I am in college, I was already planning on revising it alot, my rough drafts of everything are terrible.

As far as an opinion column I have seen the way other brawl forums do guides and they contain alot of extra information that can be figured out on your own, in about 5 seconds, so the most important part is how good the move is and when you should use it, though if anyone has an AR, and can post images of the hit boxes of the moves especially some like neutral air and over B it would be very helpful. Plus while I give my opinion I tried to list all the typical good uses for a move, which is probably the most important part of learning any character in brawl.

But as far as sudo and could of, its because its not a true combo, it just is a good pressure string, that isn't really punishable, and is very difficult/situational to escape, or could be stage/character specific, and putting down a huge list of characters it works on and the percentages is just a bit much.

For videos I will probably steal from match videos on youtube, with the new being able to pick what time to start it shouldn't be too hard.

Plus look at how most basic guides are done I can put damages up if people need them but with the degrading and stuff its, more of a better idea to constantly change moves.

This stuff is totally open for suggestions, such as if someone actually finds a use for f-tilt, a good one then it will go off the bottom 2, I just put them like that so that beginners know what they should be using alot, and what they should be avoiding.

Credibility, well I mean I mostly know what I'm doing aka dominate small local tourneys, and do good/beat people ranked high in the state somewhat consistently, but due to lack of funds I don't go to many high paying tourneys, though maybe I can hitch a ride to some one coming up soon. Also I have been respected in a few other fighting game communities for being good at helping out beginners, and I have taught many people to play brawl and well, in just under a month.

I was picking at your grammar/spelling. It should be "pseudo" and "could have."

If you will do that with ftilt, then I can prove, when my wii gets fixed, how the Fsmash is usable through a capture card video.

Credibility, i.e. I've never seen you fight before and you say stuff like neutral B being rather useless and that Fsmash is completely useless, so I'm a little in the dark here.

 

[Nefarious B]

Norad tends to hate a little too much on neutral b imo, it's a decent move with decent uses, but it is by no means a great one. However, fsmash is pretty much accepted to be useless by the community so that should be enough credibility there unless you do give some reasons for its use (norad does a good job of explaining any possible reason for using it)

 

[ThreeSided]

"The Holy Four" should definitely be renamed "The Sexy Four".

Who are we, pit?

 

[ohaiduhg]

Or Capt. Falcon. Holy Combo.

Sexy Four sounds done before for some reason. Does it really matter though?XP

 

[ThreeSided]

You're thinking of sex-kick maybe?

How about "The 0-4"? =D

 

[noradseven]

"The Holy Four" should definitely be renamed "The Sexy Four".

Who are we, pit?

The Sexy-Holy-4

 

[noradseven]

Norad tends to hate a little too much on neutral b imo, it's a decent move with decent uses, but it is by no means a great one. However, fsmash is pretty much accepted to be useless by the community so that should be enough credibility there unless you do give some reasons for its use (norad does a good job of explaining any possible reason for using it)

I tend to hate on anything that is high risk, on some levels I will use it, but its very limited to stage and the oppenent I am fighting against Olimar you can bet Im going to use it, but in general Im not going to be using really that much at all, plus I didn't put it under forbidden.

Also can you tell me what some other general uses are for it, I can add it too the guide.

I also hate alot of jab, also because jab in a clone match is near suicide because ZSS, Snake,Sheik, and a few others can duck under the first 2 hits, or at least the first one people normally don't get that far before hitting you though.

 

[Nefarious B]

I use it mostly when I'm on the defensive just like I'd use side b in a similar situation. If you hit with it you can usually follow up with a dash to jab or utilt, utilt for building damage jab for freshening to get that kill. The utilt basically stops any momentum your opponent has as they are now in a juggle situation.

Its good because your opponent will always have to stop what they're doing to avoid it. Either they will shield, dodge, jump/airdodge, but no matter what you do they just started playing by your terms, and now it's up to you to punish what they do.

That's all for the quick shot. The charged shot is much less useful because it's so slow on startup, but still has some uses. Mostly because it's so slow moving, you can shoot one out and then catch up to it and approach. Against someone without a projectile throw this out and then dash in, usually they will spotdodge to try and avoid both the dash and charge, which is why I've begun to pivot grab instead as this beats their spotdodge or if they try to shield it.

They can jump, in which case they're under a ZSS. Duh. They can also attack, hitting you with an attack and taking the charged shot, which actually could be their best bet because charged shot itself is low damage.

Of course one of the worst things about the weak shot is that many attacks cancel it out, so it's not as reliable as I may be making it sound, but it's still a nice move. I believe the charged shot is higher priority but I'm not sure, mostly I haven't seen people try to attack it to cancel.

If you're looking at uses I guess put the b-momentum shift thing, w/e that thing is that Snake does with his nades we can do that too though I personally don't do it.

I'm sure other players use it in different ways, these are just the ones that stand out to me when I think about my game play. By no means should anyone be spamming this move.

Edit: was watching this vid that Dazwa posted, there are some good examples of how to and how not to use neutral b:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st3sgYNQJPQ

Very start: to set up a glide toss
29: Even though it hit this Snake was scrubsauce, that shoulda been punished like mad. He probably meant to do the short shot.
1.06: Dazwa was late but it's a very nice move to stop mortar slide and phantasm.
1.31: Force a shield, punish. Same at 1.35 and 1.39 (BAAAD Snake)
1.50: As an approach.
1.56: This is one that I probably wouldn't try, but off stage pressure may help to get back on stage.

 

[ohaiduhg]

I tend to hate on anything that is high risk, on some levels I will use it, but its very limited to stage and the oppenent I am fighting against Olimar you can bet Im going to use it, but in general Im not going to be using really that much at all, plus I didn't put it under forbidden.

Also can you tell me what some other general uses are for it, I can add it too the guide.

I also hate alot of jab, also because jab in a clone match is near suicide because ZSS, Snake,Sheik, and a few others can duck under the first 2 hits, or at least the first one people normally don't get that far before hitting you though.

Calling a good ranged move that stuns high risk? Not only that, but you can move right behind Stun Shots with SideB's, Dsmash's, Grabs, etc.

Neutral B follwed by a dash kick to jabbing to etc. lol

It's a a core move, and, while it may not be a kill move like the SexyHoly0-4 moves, every ZSS player should know how to spam the **** out of it on every stage!

use it mostly when I'm on the defensive just like I'd use side b in a similar situation. If you hit with it you can usually follow up with a dash to jab or utilt, utilt for building damage jab for freshening to get that kill. The utilt basically stops any momentum your opponent has as they are now in a juggle situation.

Its good because your opponent will always have to stop what they're doing to avoid it. Either they will shield, dodge, jump/airdodge, but no matter what you do they just started playing by your terms, and now it's up to you to punish what they do.

That's all for the quick shot. The charged shot is much less useful because it's so slow on startup, but still has some uses. Mostly because it's so slow moving, you can shoot one out and then catch up to it and approach. Against someone without a projectile throw this out and then dash in, usually they will spotdodge to try and avoid both the dash and charge, which is why I've begun to pivot grab instead as this beats their spotdodge or if they try to shield it.

They can jump, in which case they're under a ZSS. Duh. They can also attack, hitting you with an attack and taking the charged shot, which actually could be their best bet because charged shot itself is low damage.

Of course one of the worst things about the weak shot is that many attacks cancel it out, so it's not as reliable as I may be making it sound, but it's still a nice move. I believe the charged shot is higher priority but I'm not sure, mostly I haven't seen people try to attack it to cancel.

If you're looking at uses I guess put the b-momentum shift thing, w/e that thing is that Snake does with his nades we can do that too though I personally don't do it.

I'm sure other players use it in different ways, these are just the ones that stand out to me when I think about my game play. By no means should anyone be spamming this move

Yeah, that. XD I was posting for like an hour because I got distracted.

EXCEPT. Next to SideB, Neutral B is at the top of my "to-spam" list.lol

 

[Nefarious B]

I don't really spam side b too much anymore. Of course I use it, but definitely go for combos more than the big hits in most matchups (Olimar, ROB, Snake, and others being exceptions where I will use side b a LOT)

Edit: post 300 o.O I have too much time with school almost done.

 

[ohaiduhg]

I don't really spam side b too much anymore. Of course I use it, but definitely go for combos more than the big hits in most matchups (Olimar, ROB, Snake, and others being exceptions where I will use side b a LOT)

Edit: post 300 o.O I have too much time with school almost done.

It's a really safe move. It's a defensive move that makes them defensive as well. With her aeirals you are putting yourself into hit range. Scoping weakness with the SideB and NeutralB at a safe and ready to close in distance is something really worth putting a lot of time into.

 

[sasook]

It's not as safe as you might think. Look at ZSS's metagame a few months ago, it revolved entirely around the whip. Opponents learned how to space themselves to always be in the deadzone, or they learned to PS it and punish. Plus, the startup lag isn't amazing.

The rest of ZSS's moves were taken into consideration to develop her metagame because her whip was becoming unsafe.

I'm not saying it's a bad move, but its not the super safe move it once was.

 

[noradseven]

I don't really spam side b too much anymore. Of course I use it, but definitely go for combos more than the big hits in most matchups (Olimar, ROB, Snake, and others being exceptions where I will use side b a LOT)

Edit: post 300 o.O I have too much time with school almost done.

I really feel you man most of the time I use over B involves me being off the edge, and either throwing out pressure so I can recover or for gimping.

On stage most of the time I hit the move I hit it using side b(close), because of its speed and its about as safe once you get really good at spacing it so they have to block both hits, and this makes it **** hard to PS, the second hit.

Neutral B in just every match I have used it I seemed to get smacked immediately sometimes I use it when we are both falling, but even then I normally just nudge forward and do an over B.

Yeah but in those exceptions the move really comes into play.

 

[Nefarious B]

Ya I think it really has to do with playstyle differences. Look at the ZSS mains who place in tournies, they all have different styles. However, I think the common link between them is that they do not over spam their long ranged moves, because all of them are somewhat slow on startup and can get punished. They all use her good aerials and speed as the core of their game.

Good advice for newcomers is to focus on comboing and spacing your normal moves just as much as (if not more than) focusing on walling with range, because both abilities are essential depending on the matchup.

 

[noradseven]

Ya I think it really has to do with playstyle differences. Look at the ZSS mains who place in tournies, they all have different styles. However, I think the common link between them is that they do not over spam their long ranged moves, because all of them are somewhat slow on startup and can get punished. They all use her good aerials and speed as the core of their game.

Good advice for newcomers is to focus on comboing and spacing your normal moves just as much as (if not more than) focusing on walling with range, because both abilities are essential depending on the matchup.

Yeah I'm kinda holding off until tomorrow on the next section because of how complicated its going to get.

Im a firm beliver of the basics, aka 90% of fighting games is not getting hit, this holds true for brawl, as well, and alot of my comments, are going to be my most of my thoughts into how to think about fighters in general, and maybe partially why I can't mash buttons well at all.

Personally I still have so many habits from other fighting games which could be bad, if it wasn't for the fact that they confuse the **** out of people, such as my unending cross ups. Something far less important in brawl than in any standard 2-D, not many people do back air(reversed) into jabx2,into dash, into shorthop backwards over head neutral air, and it makes many players get a bit overwhelmed.

But normally I just think okay if I was the opponent what could I do prioritize in order of probability/risk assesment, gather list of counters, react. This was really the only way I could make up for my average reaction time, my one friend who has high reaction time does this, and it is quite horrifying at points, though sometimes, you can do something ******** like charge an f-smash, and he ****s himself into getting smacked.

 

[noradseven]

Finally put some stuff up on neutral B, I think alot of my dislike from neutral B comes from how much I used to use it and what my friends do to me in casuals, when I do, aka block if I charge side step, fast as hell move.

Plus they powershield it like everytime too, and neutral B doesn't as good of a frame advantage as over B, also I play alot of lucarios/MK's so roll dodge forward, press button, I have played around with it a bit and it does a few more uses than I gave it credit for but I just hate moves that can be unsafe no matter how unlikely. Then again I also don't find over B spammable I just find it extremely useful in a few situations, and a great killing move.

Its over B is the one I do that momentum shift thing with all the time.

Also I got combat mode B up I should have combat mode A later today.

 

[Wenis of Lore]

f-smash: Just no I have heard many reasons on why you should use this move, but most of the time, you could of used something else instead that was just as good or better. The main advantages of this move are great hit box, lasts forever, always fresh haha.
The problem, very slow, and punishable on anything sometimes even hit.

Can be used as a killing blow on a d-smash not recommended,

Also can be used as an easy way to hit someone during the landing vulnerability due to how long it lasts.

you say that this move always stays fresh, so does this mean it doesn't get added to the degrade stack/list like n-air? if it does make the grade, i guess it's not completely useless since it could be used to help reset kill moves. also, i never knew that each jab was a different move on the degrade stack/list. very helpful for mixing it up.

 

[sasook]

He means it stays fresh because no one ever uses it lol. Its an awful move, you always have better options.

 

[Nefarious B]

For the suit pieces section, you definitely should mention how they bounce and have hitboxes the entire time they are bouncing. It's unique to the pieces and means that you can wall with them by throwing them up/down or by z-dropping them.

Z-dropping is really nice against Olimar (and Ivysaur too I guess) because it will knock him off his tether if you time it well, since he reels in more slowly than we do.

Make good use of side-b, b, and even b up while holding a piece, it's a constant threat with it's huge knockback, good damage, and it moves so fast through the air that you don't give them much time to react. Either they will play very cautiously, in which case you play evasive, poking at them with side b and b and look for an opening with the piece, or they will try and rush you in which case they get ***** by the piece.

 

[noradseven]

For the suit pieces section, you definitely should mention how they bounce and have hitboxes the entire time they are bouncing. It's unique to the pieces and means that you can wall with them by throwing them up/down or by z-dropping them.

Z-dropping is really nice against Olimar (and Ivysaur too I guess) because it will knock him off his tether if you time it well, since he reels in more slowly than we do.

Make good use of side-b, b, and even b up while holding a piece, it's a constant threat with it's huge knockback, good damage, and it moves so fast through the air that you don't give them much time to react. Either they will play very cautiously, in which case you play evasive, poking at them with side b and b and look for an opening with the piece, or they will try and rush you in which case they get ***** by the piece.

Good point I sometimes forget to mention details like this.

 

[noradseven]

Updated again with C, and D later tonight I might do the all important cool stuff that doesn't work and here is why list, or at least start it. With ZSS the list is HUEG.