ZOMBIES! Mafia - Who Survived the Apocalypse?

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@ #HBC | Dark Horse

Thoughts on the player list? :D

I don't have time now, so I'll do night actions and feedbac later

 

[#HBC | J]

@ Ashemu : We are now two for two in terms of us both being town and both living to end-game. Yay for us. I still enjoy your playstyle and like your ideology in mafia. The philosophy you use it close to my heart. You said that I am a player that loves being town much more and my play is more honest why I am town and that is true. I love it more than scum. Only in a blue moon can I mimic my town-game as scum and I've had some fun there.

@ Circus : Thanks for replacing in. It's always fun playing with ya man. Don't have much to say but thanks for being towny.

@rake: Not going to say much, but please reconsider the way you are playing this game. The overt brashness and toxic nature is unbecoming plus your NAs were not on par with the rest of the game. I don't know. At least you were towny.

@Wots All This Then? : Sorry for tunneling you guys but we had you as scum and were not letting go until you flipped. GG though!

@No Lynch: You two have an interesting dynamic. I am upset a tad about the replacement shenanigans getting the better of me because I was doubting Zen due to his reads faltering. Soup, I just do not understand your play and think you need to take a breather or something. Maybe read through some of your games? Or just go through a game and try and smile after every post you make. Zen, it's always a pleasure bro.

@ #HBC | Mac : Tunnel-head haha. Sorry bro but your reads were interesting this game. I mean meeeeh we all have those game where we tunnel people. Good play though regardless, still thought the possibility of you being scum wasn't far-fetched on a 3 man team, but logically you weren't.

@ #HBC | Gorf : Stay brownie townie, bro. People reading you as scum was weird.

@ ranmaru : You weren't much of a character this game besides the early stuff. Your cases just need work, I know you are good of heart but sometimes you come off a bit harsh and stubborn. Gotta work that charisma in there sometimes.

@ ~ Gheb ~ : Thanks for eating the NK, don't remember much of you this game.

@ Dooms : Still <3 you Joey.

@Red Ryu : Sorry you had a bad game bro.

@ Rockin : Sorry you got QL'd. Happy you enjoyed our hydra quick though.


Sang will probably have shoutouts of her own but here are mine. Thanks for the game everyone and thanks for DH for hosting! I can totally see why you would forget to inform us about our ability because of our ability not being real.

 

[Xivii]

@ Dooms

That's simply silly. You were no where near being lynched when you threw in the towel. The only one who was really strong set on you at the time was Mac. Even if you feel you are playing scummy, you can always find a way to make up for it. No matter how strong of a read someone appears to have on you, there will always be uncertainty. You just need to play on that uncertainty. Look how many times Ashemu and Ran went from NL scum to NL town. There were other viable lynch choices (I.g: WATT, NL, Rockin) that you could have redirected towards for days. That coupled with the possibility of being tracker AND Cop cleared, you could have very much went the distance, possibly to endgame if you had given the effort.

I'm not telling you this because I'm upset in any form. You certainly don't play any role for why we (mafia) lost. (It just would have benefited us to have you in the game). I'm telling you this because I think it is constructive and I completely understand why you felt you were ****ed. I was in the same position at the end of D1, and yet our slot managed to make it to D5. I even considered quitting at the end of D2 when you gave up and we were the next scumspec with both a cop and tracker in the game. I thought for sure that Rake would track us during the night and WATT would get a scum guilty, but to the contrary, we came into the next day as a COP CLEAR! You see what I'm saying? There's always a chance to make it through if you keep putting in the effort and stay true to the idea that you're town.

I think the two problems you're having here are:

(A) you're a perfectionist
(B) scum bias

Perfectionism: You're not always going to go through the game being obvtownie as ****. People are going to call you scum, people are going to push you. That's just the way the game goes. But as I said, it's never end all be all. This game is an ocean of uncertainty, and as scum you just have to learn to ride the waves.

Scum Bias: As scum we naturally tend to see our every action (and our partners' actions) as blatantly scummy. Ignorant town does not generally see it that way at all. You just have to try and remember yourself in past positions as town. There's always many sides to everything from a townpeep's point of view. Just remember that.

I really do hope you take this into consideration. But I doubt my words mean much to you so I'm going to show you that it's not just stupid zen being stupid and ask everyone else:

@Red Ryu do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ Circus do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@Moira do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ Rockin do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ Orboknown do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ Jdietz43 do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ Ashemu do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ ~ Gheb ~ do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ #HBC | Mac do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@Rake. do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ #HBC | Gorf do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ ranmaru do you think Joey should have given up when he did?
@ #HBC | Dark Horse do you think Joey should have given up when he did?

 

[Ashemu]

dont care im just glad he did because it made the game easier

ive seen people give up for dumber reasons.

 

[Xivii]

Oh Ashemu I knew I could rely on you for objective feedback!!!

 

[Ashemu]

yw ^_^

ps: "objective feedback" more like "feedback that agrees with you"

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i don't think he should have given up when he did

 

[Xivii]

@No Lynch

This was our first time being mafia. Soup and I have very contrasting styles as scum. I prefer manipulation, soup prefers assimilation. I seek the quickest route, soup seeks to go the distance. I long for mislynches, soup longs for prosperity. I'm looking for what's next, soup looking for what's happening. As J said, this makes for a really funky dynamic and made us a splitting headache for the cast. I don't think you can play both ways and win. My style requires that things move quickly because your scum is in the open. Soup's style requires that you conceal your scum and flow in the exact way you would as town until making your play in endgame. Bussing is detrimental to my style, and beneficial to soup's. Based on the experience of this game, I don't think it's possible to synchronize these two styles. You just end up ripping each other a part. I think that next time, instead of trying to synchronize our two scum styles, we will simply have to abandon one of our styles and solely emulate the other.

@Red Ryu

I'm not going to harp on your play since you know how you did. Constructive advice I have is Do Not rely on your claim for your security. I realize you were very preoccupied, but I do wish you would have discussed with us about claiming beforehand. I think you could have avoided being the day 1 lynch had you not claimed in the manner that you had. Plus it was more beneficial to keep your ability concealed for scum as opposed to any town points it could have given you. Secondly, I think you and soup both should have avoided pushing each other. I think pushing your buddies is a bad strategy in general. Because of the Scum Bias that I mentioned above to Joey, scum tends to see a lot of what their buddies do as blatantly scummy. A lot of times town does not pick up on these tells. There's no reason for you to bring them to light.

Too tired to go into WATT atm. @ #HBC | Dark Horse does traitor count towards mafia's numbers? I.E if both Ruy and NL were dead, could WATT still win?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yeoooooooo das wassup!

G shiz everybody, g shiz mac on dat double jail status n for havin my back when that kill attempt malarkey was goin on. Truth be told I'm SO glad town wised up about voting watt D4, things would have been horrible if he was just left alive with another flip. I have no regrets in believing him early after he claimed to get an inno on me cuz he played that SUPER well as a traitor, but then yea it crumbled.

Joey you weren't in quite a throw the towel position cuz I seriously doubt that the wagon on you would've gone through. You actually played pretty well even though I gotchu , don't dog yourself so much mang look at all the mofos saying you were obvtown lol

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

WATT could still win if both were dead. If a member was alive, though, then WATT would count toward town total.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Because of the Scum Bias that I mentioned above to Joey, scum tends to see a lot of what their buddies do as blatantly scummy. A lot of times town does not pick up on these tells. There's no reason for you to bring them to light.

yea but there are also times that things just ARE legitimately scummy and being able to point out legitimate flaws in play is really really ****in crucial for a sound bus. bussing SHOULDN'T be the first option at all, cuz after it happens you don't have many other places to look. but it almost comes off as too naive when there's an action that you, as a towny, would notice to be off and as scum ya just... well... don't. i think the better way to think of it is "think like a towny and you will look like a towny" when try'na look like you're scum hunting. ya feels me bruh?

 

[Dooms]

Zen you made me re-read and realize I thought there were more people scum-specting me than there really were.

WATT, Rake, Moira, Macman, Gord, Ashemu, Rockin

These were the people I thought were going to vote me after Macman was making legitimate points.

I didn't realize that most of these weren't really going to vote me. I think it was an in the moment thing. I'll keep what you said in mind if I start to play mafia again at some point, Zen. You're right. Thank you for the advice.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

oh i was gonna vote the **** outta you but yea you were seriously unlikely to be the lynch candidate.

like remember in ****ing D1 when i had that LEGITIMATE case on you that people took a **** on and said that i was being so fake with my reasoning and ****? that's cuz you played to your meta with near perfection and i just happened to notice that it looked shoddy given this scenario. you were a badass man, and thinking back i'm actually seriously impressed that you got good at this game compared to way back when when you were just a hysterical player to **** around with in game

 

[ranmaru]

I agree that Joey should have stayed in longer. I agree with Ash that I only like it because I have town bias, meaning that I'm glad he made it easier for us. Although I feel that people may have wised up on you. Gotta play consistently with your meta. Mac and Ash were the ones to have Joey as town but were fine with re-evaluating him.

But Joey was looking townie from his interactions with me. I also agree with Zen that you should fake it till you make it. Imagine, you are a cop on the chopping block. Do you give up then? No. You fake it till you make it... and hope people can find out that you are town. Same as scum. Hope that people THINK you are town until you die. They don't really know you are scum until you flip.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

3. Gheb_01

[...]

Well I'm glad you managed to get NK'd, Mac might have had you for dinner if not.

... lel no

 

[ranmaru]

tbh i had a deram where i hecked (e: *checked) this site and joey had died and flipped scum but he was also like a mega bomb who killed 3 people when we lynched him so its probably not prophetic. joey is town

lol

 

[ranmaru]

Also on uncertainty: There were variables of the game that influenced my read on NL. For example, Watt clearing NL. Yet I thought "Obv GF" but was uncertain. When Watt flipped it was easy for me to go back to Nl with a giddy smile "Yay I get to scumread NL again!!!" If there was ever an opportunity to scumread NL, I took it. Yet if you stayed in, you might have avoided that if you kidnapped those who spoke out against you: Mac/Ash. It might have helped the scumteam scum it up.

 

[Ashemu]

lol

he brought you back, he was the opposite!

 

[ranmaru]

True. Joey was such a gentlemen he even brought me back. I was so hype for that.

Also one more thing. Thanks Ash for defending my townieness while I was kidnapped. I was like ASHY SUCH A BRO

 

[Orboknown]

Joey should have stayed

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i am surprised that @ #HBC | marshy was the one who approved of this game

***** fight me

@ #HBC | Gorf

 

[#HBC | marshy]

softass *****

im finna dunk on yo punkass

 

[#HBC | marshy]

fakeass ****** talkin **** wen i cant respond thinkin id forget

lemme see yu in tha streets of dgamesia ima show em whats good tho

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

***** try me im finna rock yo ass so hard yo mamas finna feel dat ****, ain't no mudda fukkas finna come up in mah hood n **** wit me like dat

Nah but for real the setup is WAAAAY better than what I assumed it was after seeing all the flips n ****. That was OBVIOUSLY before watt flipped traitor, which is when everything made sense.

 

[ranmaru]

@ ranmaru : You weren't much of a character this game besides the early stuff. Your cases just need work, I know you are good of heart but sometimes you come off a bit harsh and stubborn. Gotta work that charisma in there sometimes.

Harsh? I don't recall how I came off harsh. Stubborn I can give you. I don't know how else to lynch scum. I'm just trying to find ways to lynch the scum. By the point I came back I thought "**** doing more cases, I did all the cases that I think I could do, at this point I'll focus on other stuff." It's literally getting to the point where I might just not ever make a case and just vote the guy with reasoning and goad him into make a scene and get himself lynched or something haha, because cases never do me or town any good coming from me.

Don't know how else I could have become a character. Macman had it down mostly by the time I got back. There was no one else I was willing to really look at besides NL. (If nl wasn't it it would be down to gorf/circus but only slightly) But it seems everyone saw how obvtownie I was by then so I didn't really need to do much more work, and we had the lynches to spare too.

Anyways I'll try to improve on cases and may try to do LESS cases. Charisma, I have no idea. I'll look into that though.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ran, you're too self righteous. Feeling confident about a read is one thing. But nobody wants to read a case on a player that is wall worthy when there's been two pages worth of content. You make your cases very easily misconstrued and people don't wanna read em. You happened to land on the right slot early on but that's more chance than intuition. You made yourself annoying, and in a game where convincing is the largest part of the battle, that's a horrible place to be in. People aren't ENTITLED to listen to you, you need to gain respect by giving in to what your peers want to hear. Show us that your scum read is fair enough to get on, don't tell us. Be concise too, and get to the point. You are nothing near as dreadful as you used to be, but your lack of social skills still kinda shows.

 

[ranmaru]

Hmm alright. I sometimes think that I can make myself less annoying by posting less, but then people just think that I'm scum. ;-; Anyways, gotcha. On social skills, I guess I won't learn until the future. I'm still growing and I'm going to experiment even more so hopefully I mature to show 'social skills' that I don't even know that I'm missing lol. Time to drink even moar :3

Thanks

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

cool game got ****ed by a mod error and having to bus ryu and then having to bus our traitor because it was either us or him

cave time

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@J

i was losing motivation for this game and zen correctly pinned my mindset as scum

 

[Jdietz43]

So fun fact, all our activity johns were 100% truth lol, though obviously our play was so jank it hurt. Definitely one of the times town should've forgotten logic and just lynched the slot that smelled funny. I'm a little sad Zen didn't pick up on my traitor crumb to him, and I'm extra sad mod shenanigans played into this game as much as they did.

Specific thoughts and player shoutouts to come. I can say I don't think either of us expected us to hang in there as long as we did, we tried to make NL look as good as possible before we were eventually dead before the mod error.

@ #HBC | Dark Horse : I'm going to respectfully say I don't think I'll participate next time you mod a game until you get more modding experience. Besides the obvious stuff like twilight, NA errors, and votecount mistakes, you really really didn't need to implicitly **** over No Lynch's slot by specifically stating to Moira that No Lynch did not receive an item in addition to alerting them to the fact that the item should not have gone through. You could have left it at "Sorry mod error" and the game would've been still fair though sketch, No Lynch could've claimed they did indeed think they had an item and it has now been redacted, but you specifically denied them that option by stating to Moira that he was already lying. You pegged them as scum for everyone else. That wasn't fair to either team and didn't need to happen.

 

[Ashemu]

i still never got my n3 item from j

 

[Jdietz43]

True story-both our qhs were completely accidental

Actual truth was truth lol.

I went to QT afterwards and was like "Welp Orbo I just accidentally QL'd Rockin so we're probs done here"

 

[Jdietz43]

2. Wots All This Then? (JDietz43/Orboknown)

Hey. You played it REALLY safe all game. I wouldn't have touched you and instead went for my other scumreads first but eh. I think you played it too safe, that was your downfall.

CC Watcher, Claim Cop, so safe, much doge. XD

 

[Xivii]

Zen you made me re-read and realize I thought there were more people scum-specting me than there really were.

WATT, Rake, Moira, Macman, Gord, Ashemu, Rockin

These were the people I thought were going to vote me after Macman was making legitimate points.

I didn't realize that most of these weren't really going to vote me. I think it was an in the moment thing. I'll keep what you said in mind if I start to play mafia again at some point, Zen. You're right. Thank you for the advice.

OK man!!!


@ Jdietz43 what was the crumb? The one mac pointed out?

 

[Jdietz43]

Yeah lol, I tried not to be super duper crazy obvious, but you didn't seem to be thinking about traitors/communication before that point so I had to jump on it with the "traits" bemoaning.

 

[Rockin]

Bleh, glad this game was over. things got pretty sour early on.

anyway cirus, you wanted to speak with me after game? what's up?

if this is about my attitude with town after a lynch, I don't regret it much. >_>

 

[Jdietz43]

Shoutouts

@Moira

Okay, probably the funnniest part of this entire game was J's assertion that he knew Zen meta and he was definitely town lol. Zen considering replacement after N1 should be a 110% scumtell XD. You did good staying on us for how grimy we were despite the counter-logic we were banking on to obscure our motives. You almost dug a shallow grave with the Ryu connections, but the rest of town wasn't all on board so you held up. PS: toootally called that fake role

@Wots All This Then?

#swag #doubleswag #YOLO #livefast #dielaterthanexpected


@ ~ Gheb ~

Another slot doing well to remember to screw suspect PR claims. Too bad you were shot N1 I suppose.

@ Dooms

I actually don't blame you too much for throwing in the towel, though it was certainly pre-emptive. You could've definitely eeked out a day or two more, but then again maybe so could we have. I will say though: your role was pretty BS for a wincon. Last man standing abductor with no BP with an honest to god Rolecop in play (even as a scum traitor)? Pretty much a death sentence for overall victory, you were really playing for time and style-points. if you weren't NK'd you'd be copped, voyeured, roleblocked, or tracked during one of the times you couldn't target someone voting you. Those aren't winning odds...

@ Ashemu

#coastmaster

I think you maybe coasted as much or more than our slot intentionally did, but you managed to keep it constructive and town-oriented the entire time you did. Good work XD


@Red Ryu :

Your lynch was a really tough one to make a call for. We really didn't want to bus someone from our faction D1, but after you clearly gave up and gave a two word true-claim we couldn't really turn a blind eye, not with us being the other one on the line due to legit inactivity from being busy :\ (not an actual scum-tell thread btw! D:<)

I probably condemned you a little too fast due to scum bias and knowing your meta, but I saw that lazy "Claim will save me" and saw classic Ryu scum self preservation and knew it wouldn't fly for long, so we went for the confusion no-jutsu play. Had we known that our slot counted toward the Town Majority instead of against it I think we probably wouldn't have done it and made every effort to get you to be at least D2, but we didn't know and thought we had a reasonable chance of running it to 5 man lylo with NL if we played our cards right. Turns out that was never a possibility as we'd have created 4v1 in that scenario.

It sucked we had to condemn you, but it sucked even more you made everyone in town consider the possibility we were another scum-team, that forced us to change our plans in a bad way.


@ #HBC | Gorf

Lol. Stay frosty out there. I don't know how people scumread you after Rake shenanigans, but I had a good laugh watching you ward them off. It was really funny to see people think we were likely buddies though. I almost wish we could've seen a scenario where we flipped in a cleaner way just to see who'd have jumped on you for it.


@No Lynch :

WATT please tell me your thought process for the game.

@Wots All This Then? @ Orboknown @ Jdietz43

Well, a lot of stuff happened. We never planned to bus either of you so soon, but the way things happened it became either us or Ryu, and Ryu had clearly phoned in his defense. Since we knew Ryu was Watcher, and RoleCop is infinitely more powerful we made the decision to YOLO it and try and get Town-cred and confusion-spreading from the traitor bus. Our plan was to counterclaim and let that claim ride until a much later date when we could spin it in Lylo, hopefully with you still alive. But Ryu immediately turned on us with the assertion that while he was mafia, we were likely another mafia faction. Suddenly D1 CC to a scum role went from a left-field ace-card to being pretty suck. Orbo slipped a little and spilled the "We're going to change this" beans early, which gave us a lot of dirty looks and put us behind. For awhile it actually looked okay anyways, from us CC'ing we got an early D2 claim of every notable Town PR for free! Voyeur and Tracker were on the table, the only legit PR left was Macman's Jailer. We prayed like crazy you'd take the initiative on a Rake kill after he cleared himself by being "so stupid it couldn't be scum"over our slot who hopefully had "Lynchable" and "Traitor" written all over it, but you were afraid of our cop, and things just went nowhere after that. You looked great other than that and the mod error that bingo'd you. We kept our mouth shut on every single scummy thing you did, you had bussed Ryu, you were actively looking for the lynch of another slot that would eventually flip scum and had pushed us since D1. The cards were right for you to go on to win it with Jan kills for as long as we could stall and confuse town, but it didn't work out that way in the end. We unfortunately weren't aware of you being 1-shot Jan, nor of the fact we counted towards Town Majority. Those two facts alone probably would have changed a lot of our decisionmaking.

I'm a little surprised you didn't try to turn the item stuff around on Moira faster though. There was definitely room to correctly insinuate that you had never gotten an item before the mod-error to J showed up.

I gotta ask though, why shoot Gheb N1? I know you thought he was maybe a PR, but it seemed like his kill could've definitely waited the way he was sidelining. He was actually a lynch candidate for most after RR's scum admission if you remember right. We were honestly expecting a Macman kill iirc from our hydra chat back then.

@ #HBC | Mac :

Lol, your logic was good. Unfortunately it's the same logic we were banking on to keep us alive for the first few days. Sometimes people are silly. You got it right in the end though, and didn't lynch Moira (despite how much I was hoping that would gain traction).

@Rake.

Dawg... You know we love you. Lots of homo... but "Raketarded" is officially in the Dgames dictionary after this game lol. Stay free XD

@ Rockin

Your logic on us over Ryu was so weird, though I guess in the end it was right? I don't really remember anything prevalent about your play or reads before you got axed. GGs tho and good to see you around and playing.

@ ranmaru :

Lol. You have NO IDEA how spot on your Zen meta read D1 was. No one was taking you seriously, but they probably should have been. Your reads coming back in after being abducted were a lot more off though, though I could see where they came from.

@ Circus :

Super townie, no fuss, no muss. 10/10, would Rolecop D1 again.

 

[Circus]

anyway cirus, you wanted to speak with me after game? what's up?

if this is about my attitude with town after a lynch, I don't regret it much. >_>

Okay. Then we have nothing to talk about. I'm not interested in making you regret your attitude, but you must at least realize how poor a team player you were. If you're comfortable being that, that's fine. I won't expect any better of you in the future.

 

[ranmaru]

@ Jdietz43

Well, I was trying to find scum connected to ryu. I was also going off 3scum team, not two. So yeah I was just trying to avoid NL and hope people would understand over time. Also I meant safe as in rarely ever posting or even voting people.

 

[Jdietz43]

As for that kind of safe? Totally lol. We barely even showed up to thread, that was definitely a warning sign.