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Zoma's Mewtwo

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SuperShus

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If you follow him and amsa they post good sets that would be hard for English speakers to find.
Like this one.
 

Benny P

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So uh, we're not gonna talk about that they're running it in english?

Good Mewtwo play though!!
 

BadChef

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I really like watching this guy play. Imagine if we had 20XX Mewtwo players that could exploit teleport cancels heh.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3onq7s/pretty_sick_japanese_mewtwo_player/
I don't really have time to watch it right this moment, but I never thought that the teleport cancels were that hard. I don't play much Mewtwo, but I do consider myself pretty good with him and I make use of that a good bit. I thought it was something most people would do, is it not?
 

Sieghart

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I don't really have time to watch it right this moment, but I never thought that the teleport cancels were that hard. I don't play much Mewtwo, but I do consider myself pretty good with him and I make use of that a good bit. I thought it was something most people would do, is it not?
It most definitely is, at least for the newer M2's. Thing is, most people can't manage this: https://twitter.com/lifegeimu/status/638276987174432769 on an extremely good day. By most people I mean the only thing close to it was a short TAS video a user named blu2grut made a awhile back.
 
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Sieghart

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zoma gives me actual hope that m2 play can be improved.
I mean, I think it's safe to say with what people have come up with in the metagame thread that M2 can be improved a fairly great deal on his own. What really matters I guess is how that compares to others on the tier list. I think we can manage a better matchup spread than most other low tiers at the very least. The dream is mid tier. In all honesty I'm really just tired of him being below Zelda, Roy, and DK. I think we can do better than that.
 

Benny P

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Both the US and Japan play NTSC. The language doesn't really matter.

Yeah, i know. Just kind of curious they didn't play it with their text inb their own language and stuff.

A lot of voices get added or changed when in Japanese, Like Fox and Falco saying stuff other than mission complete, mewtwo talking, Puff Being Purin, Ice Climbers being Ice Climbers, Bowser being Koopa, and Young Link with the same announcer voice clip but written as "Kodomi Link" (in japanese anyways) to name a few,

Just trivial stuff, but i find it strange they weren't just playing melee in their own language.
 

Sieghart

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I'm not sure about m2 being better than DK.
I see M2 as having more room for growth than DK at the very least. I think it's debatable but I see M2 as having more concrete strengths in the long run that DK, at least in regard to feasible high level play for both characters. I still feel like the fact that what little he can accomplish is so easy to see and variably easy to put into practice that he feels better than he should. M2 and others are a lot more ambiguous due to difficulty so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 

SuperShus

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m2 is never going to be a good character, lol.
He doesn't have many long combos unless your opponent messes up DI, and neutral is a struggle.
all we can do is practice edgegaurding and stalling and get really solid fundamentals.
mewtwo is a fun character to play, possibly the most fun... but never cloud your vision to the point where you think he's good
 

Sieghart

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m2 is never going to be a good character, lol.
He doesn't have many long combos unless your opponent messes up DI, and neutral is a struggle.
all we can do is practice edgegaurding and stalling and get really solid fundamentals.
mewtwo is a fun character to play, possibly the most fun... but never cloud your vision to the point where you think he's good
Woah, I never said I thought M2 was good or even could be good. The most I said was that mid tier was the dream. I didn't mean that the way most people do as a goal, I meant an actual dream like in bed dozing off. Unless you consider DK good, with which I beg to differ if that is so.
 
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Sieghart

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There were a ton of flubbed wd dtilts that resulted in awkward full jump dairs, especially in the first game. There were also a few times where he landed a dtilt and didn't really seem to know how to follow them up when he could have landed a dsmash, etc.
I probably shouldn't be the one talking but I notice he could use a fair deal of work in regards to his neutral as well. I've been going over a lot of matches and personally practicing stuff like spacing and footsies and in the first match particularly Sobameshi seems to be playing the neutral like a legend while Zoma attempts pre-emptive dtilts and the like to no avail. If his punish game wasn't so good and consistent I'm sure it would show more in his results. The same could probably be said for most people though so I suppose it's kind of a moot point?
 
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Sieghart

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I find it difficult to critique a specific person's neutral game because there's a lot going on behind what they do that isn't shown through the footage. I can guess at the intentions and point out clearly poor choices but talking about what they could do more is difficult for me since hindsight is 20/20 and I feel like it also depends on what their basic gameplan is already.
This is mostly what I meant. Like Zoma consistently overextending and getting punished or crossed up in return for it. It's also possible he's just prone to missing inputs while approaching though, which I don't believe is uncommon.
 
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MookieRah

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Honestly, after watching these videos I think Zoma is quite damn good, but also has room to improve. I don't believe though that Zoma's neutral is as good as Taj's was. Compare the skill level of who Taj played vs Zoma. Granted, this is a few years back, but the Gods back then were still better than Zoma's competition.

The main take-away from all this is that Zoma probably has the most well-developed punish game. He punishes things even harder than Taj did. That's definitely something to take note, and it's what has inspired me to find new solutions to age old M2 tech problems.

Teleport shenanigans are also cool, but I would imagine that they are incredibly situational as they require such precise inputs and locations to perform them. Also, normal jump canceled teleport shenanigans are already quite good, and people don't use them appropriate IMO. I think the main and best use of the teleport edge canceling is to use it how Taj was working on it, as a means to get up from the ledge and to cancel on a platform for a possible punish.
 
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Sieghart

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He doesnt seem to do much on youtube anymore, everything I find is from his twitter.
There are tons of Zoma matches uploaded on that channel in general so I recommend anyone interested just sub there as well. He's been a consistent feature there since 2 years ago (the channel's inception) from the looks of it. If you just Ctrl+F his name (ゾーマ) you'll see that a third, if not more, of the matches are either his Fox or his M2.
 

NJzFinest

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dang, that Falco starting playing super lame lol

I think powershield into wavedash dtilt is gonna have to become a well practiced tech. Falco players will more than likely just start camping when they play a Mew2.
 

ihasabuket

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He just needs to sit on the side platform and charge shadowball when he's getting camped. Falco cant laser at that height going up so it gives you enough time to chargecancel shield -> WD OoS/Shieldrop/Teleport OoS
 
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BeldorTN

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZY2IFahQLA

Once again the matchup against Falcon.

Seems like Zoma (or M2 in general) struggles a lot with Falcon's nair, and in this instance he more than once got caught by dairs.

Weird set overall, even if I can't get enough of his punishes. Just beautiful to watch.
 
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